I would prefer three offense, three defense and three utility. And can we please get at least one weapon enchant that gives a bonus to healing, or make the bonus on the new ones be plus damage and healing.
And in general, this itemization really sucks for healers.
Can't wait to play the new trials and dungeons on preview with no investment to live servers for the rest of my time here, job well done Cryptic. 2 Combat Reworks with 0 Trial releases, you've outdone yourselves this time!
I'm thinking that one utility slot (down from 5) is why they didn't worry about putting movement speed onto them a while back...
Please Do Not Feed The Trolls
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
I'm thinking that one utility slot (down from 5) is why they didn't worry about putting movement speed onto them a while back...
Which should tell people how long ago they knew about the bait and switch coming up. How many people bought/upgraded 5 azures because of it? I know plenty who bought 5 rank 15 azures just to make use of the -25% movespeed gloves from mini vos.
It is very demotivating to invest into an item (5 Coals!) that will vanish after a specific time. As the new enchantments are one of the core parts of a character now this is something I dont understand and whichis the biggest downside on this rework in my opinion.
Nero - Palacetamol - Essence of Aggression
1
arazith07Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,719Arc User
It is very demotivating to invest into an item (5 Coals!) that will vanish after a specific time. As the new enchantments are one of the core parts of a character now this is something I dont understand and whichis the biggest downside on this rework in my opinion.
Only the free rank 4s have an expiration date. New enchantments gotten from either the sage or the exchange vendor are permanent.
Have they announced whether there will be other weapon enchants in addition to the ones currently on preview ? Specifically debuffs like frost, dread, bronzewood?
Please look at the feedback in this thread. It does not seem many are encouraged by these changes. With none of the combat enchantments offering any help to a healer, and the runestones not helping anyone but DPS(outside of the augment choice and overcapping stats by 20k), it feels like this has not been thought out, or how it will impact all players. The change of all weapon and armor enchantments, and then a choice of 6, which we will be able to use 1, also seems to tear away at what players thought was meaningful progress in the game. It also makes the range of viable builds much less.
So, if a toon currently is using rank 10 enchantment only, after the change, he won't even able to trade for one rank 1 enchantment. i.e. he will not be able to have any enchantment at all. Am I right?
Seems so. You have to buy new ones from the Sage Shop for 100k each.
I think you could achieve a better balance of these goals by making enchantment cost progression somewhat less linear (though again, not as crazy as Mounts, please). I'd spread out enchantment levels just a tiny bit more, from 1-6, targetting IL/cost to upgrade such that, for example:
- Rank 1 is easy for new players to acquire (125 IL or so, equivalent to a rank 10, sell for maybe 10k?) - Rank 2 is a relatively inexpensive upgrade, suitable for intermediate players and alts (1 glyph, 50k RP, base 20% chance to upgrade, 250 IL, target cost similar to a rank 12 around 150k) - Rank 3 represents some substantial investment in the character, but is attainable with dedicated effort (3 glyphs, 150k RP, 5% chance to upgrade, 375 IL, target cost 600k, maybe include these in the Tarmalune store) - Rank 4 is a substantial investment, comparable to a rank 15 before they were de-valued (6 glyphs, 300k RP, 1% chance to upgrade, 500 IL, target cost 1.6m, avoid selling these through any source for a while) - Rank 5 is a large investment, but still reasonable for gear (10 glyphs, 500k RP, 0% chance to upgrade, 625 IL, target cost 3m) - Rank 6, sky's the limit (probably need to add some more expensive reagents here, aim for a cost of 5-6m, 750 IL)
Then rebalance your existing trade-in around those target costs, allowing players to exchange for up to rank 3 (maybe 4?) for general enchantments, maybe rank 5 for Combat/Companion Enchantments, and trade extra tokens for decent Motes.
Maybe triple the IL for the Combat enchantment relative to others, so it goes from 375-2250, leaving a total max IL net impact of 3150 (6600 to 9750), a minor boost on current BIS (10 * 500 + 1875 = 6875), fairly break-even for other ranges (24x rank 12s and rank 8 weapon/armor is 3760 IL, compared to 3625 from 10x rank 2 and a rank 3 combat, 24x rank 9 is basically zero cost, but 2160 IL, vs 2000 from 10x rank 1 + rank 2 combat).
By extending the upper end with an extra level or two, you still have room to pull money out of the economy and sell wards, while leaving players feeling less cheated about their existing enchantments losing value, and losing large amounts of relative progression
I agree with the overall sentiment here. Alt / budget characters likely need to spend 1M AD in the Sage Shop and 2.4M on the Exchange to get started in the new system. That's insane.
Feedback: Upgrade Chances Artifacts and Artifact Gear seems to retain upgrade chances, but all Enchantments have a base chance of 0%, meaning you have to use Coals or wait until you've farmed other motes in dungeons to do anything. I like that Preservation Wards do play a lesser role since it was one of the items where the broken ZAX hurt the most, but just moving towards Coals is a trade I'd like to avoid. Depends on the drop rates and % of other motes though.
Feedback: Adventure Rewards not Updated Adventure Rewards still hand out Enchantments from the old system at ranks you cannot exchange. This particularly hurts for the Rank 8 Weapon Enchantment you get from the Whispering Caverns. I think this either should be a R1 in the new system OR upgraded to a Rank 11 so you can exchange it for a new R1. This also applies to other Enchantment and Runestone rewards. Refining Points is a crappy reward for new players. I think there's not harm to let players earn 5-6 Rank 1 during the leveling process through Adventure Rewards.
Feedback: Stat Customization I'm not against streamlining the system and take Enchantments away from item slots. But at least the former system gave devs the options to get creative with item slots (Makos Signet). I think what you want to do is this setup:
One problem with Combat/Companion Enchantments is no combined rating. With high item level and no combined ratings, it hits your total percentages by a lot.
On live server, Indomitable Runestone Rank 15 gives 120 combined rating. Weapon and Armor enhancements at Rank 14 don't give any combined ratings but they were 800 each so they do not effect your total percentages as much.
With no combined rating on Enchantments that now give a lot of item level, the extra item level probably won't give any real strength increase and if not careful, can actually make you weaker.
Fix: Make Combat/Companion Enchantments like Companion Equip powers - they should give as much combined ratings as item level.
It just occured to me that with changes made utility enchantments such as dragonhoard, fey blessing or quartermaster are gone. They were unique in the way, because they helped to gather rp. Do you plan on adding those back under some diffrent name or are they gone for good and with them all chance to get some small extra rp by just questing in zones?
It just occured to me that with changes made utility enchantments such as dragonhoard, fey blessing or quartermaster are gone. They were unique in the way, because they helped to gather rp. Do you plan on adding those back under some diffrent name or are they gone for good and with them all chance to get some small extra rp by just questing in zones?
Good catch. RP have become a little too cheap in my opinion, but this is a change that should be properly communicated imho.
So enchants below 10 is worthless way to punish the non bis players
There are more than BIS players in this game RIP Real Tiamat, RIP Real Demogorgon RIP real Temple of the spider. Why remove non bis content to give to bis players ???? FORCING the majority of your player base to play 4 mod old dungeons and trial will have a bad result on player base Changes are getting so bad i would rather prefer no new changes (RIP ICE FISHING in winter fest)
The conversion rate is unacceptable. After converting all my eligable enchantments from 2 characters, I can only replace 1 combat (weapon) enchantment Rank 4 and 1 Rank 2 + 1 Rank 1 equipment enchantment. I won't even be able to get a companion enchantment, but I had 6x Rank 14 Empowered enchantments. Without being able to incl. guild boon, for offensive stats it comes to a total loss of around 20,20%, even though my base damage has gone up by 46 and total item level has gone up by 622. Furthermore, my [Bilethorn Enchantment, Rank 14] and [Barkshield Enchantment, Rank 10] aren't even convertable ??! Edit: found them in a different tab, sorry Also, please make the [Heart of Fire Enchantment, Rank 14] account bound for the purposes of this conversion so that I can mail all my enchantments to 1 character for conversion! This way I will just be able to squeeze 1 more Rank 1 enchantment out of it!
By the way, even the weapon enchantment wont be as good as it was before the conversion! B4: Magnitude 60 damage after 4 seconds, After: Magnitude 20 damage after 4 seconds.
I disagree that R8/9 were worthless. They were obviously adding more than an empty slot (e.g. the free R8 Lightning enchantment boosted AoE damage to a point where combat actually felt like fun), especially for characters still levelling their IL, alts, new or returning players. I suppose most Dragon´s Hoard/Quartermaster´s/Fey Blessings were R9 or less as well. Not everybody is maxed in this game.
And if they are all just worth their RP value now I don´t like how you can´t spend RPs on partial progress of items anymore, that´s how you could transfer some odd or unwanted RPs off alts or characters you no longer play - by trading items to drop those RPs on. They now gonna sit there unused unless they can reach whatever it is that is needed to upgrade an item. If you do this, please add a "Shared Refinement Points" to the account vault.
I disagree that R8/9 were worthless. They were obviously adding more than an empty slot (e.g. the free R8 Lightning enchantment boosted AoE damage to a point where combat actually felt like fun), especially for characters still levelling their IL, alts, new or returning players. I suppose most Dragon´s Hoard/Quartermaster´s/Fey Blessings were R9 or less as well. Not everybody is maxed in this game.
And if they are all just worth their RP value now I don´t like how you can´t spend RPs on partial progress of items anymore, that´s how you could transfer some odd or unwanted RPs off alts or characters you no longer play - by trading items to drop those RPs on. They now gonna sit there unused unless they can reach whatever it is that is needed to upgrade an item. If you do this, please add a "Shared Refinement Points" to the account vault.
My atls in the 35-40k range all have Rank 9 max. So they will get zero free Enchantments in the new system. It's, uhm, perplexing. I will of course now make sure to use leftover MoPs to upgrade stuff so I can supply alts with at least Rank 1s, but it'll be an uphill battle.
8
darthpotaterMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,259Arc User
My only concern is marks of potency that cost AD should have an exchange for AD.
The rest I can live with, and is great that we can switch items in different loadouts and keep the same enchants. Now if I want a weapon enchant for bosses and other for the rest of the dungeon, I need different sets of weapons or unslot the enchant 3 times per dungeon
I have almost 100 Rank 9 enchantments because that's what the lockboxes give us. What am I supposed to do with those? Just turn them into refinement points? Also it's really bad we can't buy the Rank 3 or 4 of the normal Enchantments and just the Combat/Companion ones. Also, the thing you don't explain here is that the unslot cost has gone away because it now costs Gold to upgrade the Enchantment. That's a little bit of a bait and switch.
rank 9s are useful for nothing but refinement points anyway, we can only get rank 2 of the new one yes but that's 3 x the worth of the current rank 15's. The change is so you can use different enchants on different loadouts, costing gold to upgrade isn't really an issue since there is very little reason to use gold for anything other than the new upgrade system. If you are not doing professions and not switching enchants, you are not using gold so its no a big issue at all
Feedback: Gold as Major Component I like Gold being such a major component in the upgrade process. Think it's still a bit under-represented in terms of significance in the game and this should help.
It's actually used for professions, so I hope the cost won't be enormous (10 gold and more is enormous) because we actually go through our gold like it's potions
I would prefer it if we had a explanation on why the developers think this change is ideal for the longevity of Neverwinter as a game. I'm fine with doing away with the cost of removing an enchantment intact, what I don't like is how this new system is basically dropped in our laps with nothing more than 'we understand this is disruptive and overwhelming'
I strongly agree with this - please give us an explanation why this design is good for the game. Is it going to make more money, safeguarding the financial feature of the game? Is it intended to be easier to use? Is it more friendly for new players?
To me, this stuff - especially the new Motes system - screams predatory money grab tactics. Blizzard seems to be dying, if you want any of those WoW players to end up spending money on Neverwinter you need to take a step back on the predatory stuff and a step forward on ease of use stuff and bug fixing.
The cost of the upgrade from what I can see isn't a massive gold sink per enchants so not much to worry about, just stack up a few hundred gold before mod drop and you'll be sorted
They should've allowed a 1-1 trade of rank 15s for rank 2, as they nerfed our enchants back at start of combat rework, now we're just trading 3x of our enchants + supplies and gold to get back what we had. Nothing more than thieves.
It just occured to me that with changes made utility enchantments such as dragonhoard, fey blessing or quartermaster are gone. They were unique in the way, because they helped to gather rp. Do you plan on adding those back under some diffrent name or are they gone for good and with them all chance to get some small extra rp by just questing in zones?
And another kick to small guilds who are trying to grind to upgrade. No more bags for surplus or gems for donation. Throw it on the pile...
I disagree that R8/9 were worthless. They were obviously adding more than an empty slot (e.g. the free R8 Lightning enchantment boosted AoE damage to a point where combat actually felt like fun), especially for characters still levelling their IL, alts, new or returning players. I suppose most Dragon´s Hoard/Quartermaster´s/Fey Blessings were R9 or less as well. Not everybody is maxed in this game.
And if they are all just worth their RP value now I don´t like how you can´t spend RPs on partial progress of items anymore, that´s how you could transfer some odd or unwanted RPs off alts or characters you no longer play - by trading items to drop those RPs on. They now gonna sit there unused unless they can reach whatever it is that is needed to upgrade an item. If you do this, please add a "Shared Refinement Points" to the account vault.
My atls in the 35-40k range all have Rank 9 max. So they will get zero free Enchantments in the new system. It's, uhm, perplexing. I will of course now make sure to use leftover MoPs to upgrade stuff so I can supply alts with at least Rank 1s, but it'll be an uphill battle.
Well, you might want to take a real close look at those exchange rates before you embark on your refining journey... -> 30x R10 for 1x new R1
> @arazith07 said: > You are literally saying that the exchange is fair with the numbers but then say that you are losing stats? I don't think you are quite understanding everything here.
No im saying they said they wanted to make item level and stats more meaningful with enchants but they didn't in the least . the item level is exactly the same and now we have less stats from enchants.
Ok I have looked at this thread and all I can say is that if I have to spend $1 to upgrade any of my characters I have now in the new system I will just delete the characters and if that leaves me with none I will be seeking a refund of all the $ I have already spent including the unused portion of my VIP rank 12, you are constantly moving the bar, I have spent THOUSANDS on this game in last 2 years and if that is not enough to have ALL viable characters after the change then you are just a money pit and I will be better of without you and your predatory practices in my life. As is I play more than any other player on this game, chase me away at your own peril because when players like me are gone you are up (insert expletive) creek and I'm not paying for your paddle.
> @arazith07 said: > You are literally saying that the exchange is fair with the numbers but then say that you are losing stats? I don't think you are quite understanding everything here.
No im saying they said they wanted to make item level and stats more meaningful with enchants but they didn't in the least . the item level is exactly the same and now we have less stats from enchants.
In fact many characters who had enchantments will have no enchantments (and thus the IL and stats they contributed) after this change. If it´s worth it to spend millions of ADs just to get rank 1s remains to be seen. Or how often they drop (or as quest rewards) to allow every character a basic set of enchantments. The removal of Dragon Hoard´s/Quartermaster´s/Fey Blessings for RPs and stronghold contribution gonna hurt as well. And a lot of options for customization is getting removed.
Of course I like that the enchantment slots are getting reduced and the gold cost removed. I hate using the UI and the repetitiveness whenever I change an item and have to place/remove/replace enchantments. And of course I understand that they are trying to make stuff easier and allow for further scalability.
For my own curiosity, what were you planning to do with those 100 enchantments if this system change hadn't happened? The enchantments on live can still be upgraded, so one option is to raise some of them to rank 10 to exchange into the new enchantments.
I think that's the wrong question. My alts for example mostly sport Rank 9s because it's the standard gem in lockboxes. There are plenty ranks below that from Quartermaster's, but I think we can agree that those are mostly RPs. But Rank 9s are the first purple ones that are really cheap and obtainable. So that's what player or budget builds usually start with and can be considered the current baseline.
Now you made the system fair for Rank 15s where you get equal value for your item level. That's not the case for lower level enchants. One new R2 (item level 600) is:
The lesser the ranks, the more item level you're losing in the new system. This might seem fair, because higher levels are generally harder to obtain and forge, but thanks to Trade Bars that's not the case. Actually all options to trade old enchantments to a new R2 hover between 2,100,000 and 2,400,000 AD (5x R14 to 60x R10), but 3x R15 cost below 2,000,000 on PC atm. Rich players will now just buy R15 while smaller accounts run out of options or have to deal with the fact that their item levels won't transfer to the new system.
Also Rank 9s should at least be convertible into exchange currency, because that's what people are starting with. Currently a toon with Rank 9s (and Rank 10s for that matter) basically has to pay over 3M for a starting package of the new enchantments because they can exchange nothing.
Comments
And in general, this itemization really sucks for healers.
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
It is very demotivating to invest into an item (5 Coals!) that will vanish after a specific time. As the new enchantments are one of the core parts of a character now this is something I dont understand and whichis the biggest downside on this rework in my opinion.
Feedback: Upgrade Chances
Artifacts and Artifact Gear seems to retain upgrade chances, but all Enchantments have a base chance of 0%, meaning you have to use Coals or wait until you've farmed other motes in dungeons to do anything. I like that Preservation Wards do play a lesser role since it was one of the items where the broken ZAX hurt the most, but just moving towards Coals is a trade I'd like to avoid. Depends on the drop rates and % of other motes though.
Feedback: Adventure Rewards not Updated
Adventure Rewards still hand out Enchantments from the old system at ranks you cannot exchange. This particularly hurts for the Rank 8 Weapon Enchantment you get from the Whispering Caverns. I think this either should be a R1 in the new system OR upgraded to a Rank 11 so you can exchange it for a new R1. This also applies to other Enchantment and Runestone rewards. Refining Points is a crappy reward for new players. I think there's not harm to let players earn 5-6 Rank 1 during the leveling process through Adventure Rewards.
Feedback: Stat Customization
I'm not against streamlining the system and take Enchantments away from item slots. But at least the former system gave devs the options to get creative with item slots (Makos Signet). I think what you want to do is this setup:
2x offensive
2x defensive
1x utility
4x offensive / defensive / utility
That would allow players to customize the gem setup depending on their needs.
On live server, Indomitable Runestone Rank 15 gives 120 combined rating.
Weapon and Armor enhancements at Rank 14 don't give any combined ratings but they were 800 each so they do not effect your total percentages as much.
With no combined rating on Enchantments that now give a lot of item level, the extra item level probably won't give any real strength increase and if not careful, can actually make you weaker.
Fix: Make Combat/Companion Enchantments like Companion Equip powers - they should give as much combined ratings as item level.
any new enchantment/runestone from the exchange should be bound to account.
RIP Real Tiamat, RIP Real Demogorgon RIP real Temple of the spider. Why remove non bis content to give to bis players ????
FORCING the majority of your player base to play 4 mod old dungeons and trial will have a bad result on player base
Changes are getting so bad i would rather prefer no new changes (RIP ICE FISHING in winter fest)
After converting all my eligable enchantments from 2 characters, I can only replace 1 combat (weapon) enchantment Rank 4 and 1 Rank 2 + 1 Rank 1 equipment enchantment. I won't even be able to get a companion enchantment, but I had 6x Rank 14 Empowered enchantments.
Without being able to incl. guild boon, for offensive stats it comes to a total loss of around 20,20%, even though my base damage has gone up by 46 and total item level has gone up by 622.
Furthermore, my [Bilethorn Enchantment, Rank 14] and [Barkshield Enchantment, Rank 10] aren't even convertable ??!Edit: found them in a different tab, sorryAlso, please make the [Heart of Fire Enchantment, Rank 14] account bound for the purposes of this conversion so that I can mail all my enchantments to 1 character for conversion! This way I will just be able to squeeze 1 more Rank 1 enchantment out of it!
By the way, even the weapon enchantment wont be as good as it was before the conversion!
B4: Magnitude 60 damage after 4 seconds,
After: Magnitude 20 damage after 4 seconds.
Thank you.
And if they are all just worth their RP value now I don´t like how you can´t spend RPs on partial progress of items anymore, that´s how you could transfer some odd or unwanted RPs off alts or characters you no longer play - by trading items to drop those RPs on. They now gonna sit there unused unless they can reach whatever it is that is needed to upgrade an item. If you do this, please add a "Shared Refinement Points" to the account vault.
The rest I can live with, and is great that we can switch items in different loadouts and keep the same enchants. Now if I want a weapon enchant for bosses and other for the rest of the dungeon, I need different sets of weapons or unslot the enchant 3 times per dungeon
Caturday Survivor
Elemental Evil Survivor
Undermontain Survivor
Mod20 Combat rework Survivor
Mod22 Refinement rework Survivor
-> 30x R10 for 1x new R1
> You are literally saying that the exchange is fair with the numbers but then say that you are losing stats? I don't think you are quite understanding everything here.
No im saying they said they wanted to make item level and stats more meaningful with enchants but they didn't in the least . the item level is exactly the same and now we have less stats from enchants.
Of course I like that the enchantment slots are getting reduced and the gold cost removed. I hate using the UI and the repetitiveness whenever I change an item and have to place/remove/replace enchantments. And of course I understand that they are trying to make stuff easier and allow for further scalability.
Now you made the system fair for Rank 15s where you get equal value for your item level. That's not the case for lower level enchants. One new R2 (item level 600) is:
- 3x Rank 15 = 600 item level investment
- 5x Rank 14 = 900 item level investment
- 7.5 Rank 13 = 1,200 item level investment
- 15x Rank 12 = 2,100 item level investment
- 30x Rank 11 = 3,600 item level investment
- 60x Rank 10 = 6,000 item level investment
The lesser the ranks, the more item level you're losing in the new system. This might seem fair, because higher levels are generally harder to obtain and forge, but thanks to Trade Bars that's not the case. Actually all options to trade old enchantments to a new R2 hover between 2,100,000 and 2,400,000 AD (5x R14 to 60x R10), but 3x R15 cost below 2,000,000 on PC atm. Rich players will now just buy R15 while smaller accounts run out of options or have to deal with the fact that their item levels won't transfer to the new system.
Also Rank 9s should at least be convertible into exchange currency, because that's what people are starting with. Currently a toon with Rank 9s (and Rank 10s for that matter) basically has to pay over 3M for a starting package of the new enchantments because they can exchange nothing.