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  • forumaccount#7167 forumaccount Member Posts: 88 Arc User
    With the huge increase in HP and the decrease in damage dealt you have to adjust equip powers like butchers might. It's impossible to fully stack them at the moment.

    Also how does the vorpal enchantment work with the changes? Since it doesn't show it's stats in the stat window is the crit severity added on top of the displayed crit severity so up to 110% total?
  • hustin1hustin1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,318 Arc User
    edited December 2020
    I can put forward some thoughts on why Control Bonus is a dead stat to most players.

    1. There are very few ways to increase it.

    - Sphere of Black Ice
    - Valindra Set
    - Insignia of Mastery
    - Mount collar
    - Boons

    The first two involve using obsolete gear, which bring a real opportunity cost. The insignas also bring an opportunity cost since you realistically have to use a *lot* of them to achieve a boost that is actually noticeable.


    2. Drastically increased time delays between recasting chill encounters

    This is due to two factors:

    - Loss of Recovery
    - Drastically increased encounter cooldown times

    For all chill encounters, there is a delay of several seconds between when the effects of the previous cast have faded and when you can recast it. The effect of this is that chill encounters have lost roughly one-third to one-half of their effectiveness, simply because of the time that enemies spend free from CC effects.


    3. Enemies in dungeons have greatly increased Control Resistance

    This makes the Control Bonus stat effectively useless in dungeons because the player has no means to compensate for it (see points 1 and 2 above).


    4. Bosses are immune to CC effects and there are few to no adds to manage with CC.

    While making bosses immune is a necessity, during a boss fight there is little to no need for CC since there are rarely any adds to manage. Further, due to point 3 above, adds cannot generally be managed anyway. If anything, investing in CC presents an opportunity cost to a wizard since it makes more sense to invest in DPS instead when dealing with fights like this.
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  • eversummer#1666 eversummer Member Posts: 59 Arc User
    edited December 2020
    @noworries#8859

    Enchantments bugs (not tested, just tooltips review)


    Silvery
    > glory gain : 10% - assuming utility values went from 60% to 100% on R15, this should be 100% gain

    Radiant
    > 13200 HP - should be 1200 HP, by looking at other HP enchants
    > gold gain : 10% - should be 100%

    Cruel & Vicious
    > glory gain : 2.5% - should be 50% ?

    Ruthless
    > gold gain : 2.5% - idem
    > glory gain : 2.5% - idem

    Wicked, Savage & Shiny Coin
    > gold gain : 2.5% idem

    Gigantic
    > offense slot Combined ratings : 336 - should be 168
    > defense slot Combined ratings : 0 - should be 168

    Assassin
    > defense slot Combined ratings : 16 - should be 168

    Tenebrous
    > tooltip states 24000 maximum dmg proc, but in effect it only proc for 12000
    Your Tenebrous Power deals 12000 (24000) Necrotic Damage to Target Dummy


    Feedback :

    HP gain is insignificant, and all the specific ratings are so low for a maxed out R15, it makes enchants quite indistinguishable from each other. Overall, same can be said for runestones, and (to a lower extent) for insignias
    Post edited by eversummer#1666 on
  • carloswartune#5709 carloswartune Member Posts: 239 Arc User

    On live healers have their formula that the critical need to be more than power for more critical heals do they keep that formula with the new changes? Also do they need to have high critical avoidance for tower of mad mage?

    It was clarified on the stream today that Crit on preview works the same way for healers and DPS. This means there is no relation to Power anymore, and the Crit chance you see on your character sheet is the chance to land a critical heal. However, Critical Severity is still halved when healing.

    This brings a question: Accuracy and Combat Advantage are "useless" for healers, and that's the reason crit works the way it works on live: the "stat burden" for Accuracy and Combat Advantage was entirely transferred to crit.

    Now that this doesn't happen anymore, will Accuracy and Combat Advantage be in any way useful or accounted for when healing? Because if it isn't, healers will have 2 useless stats more than other roles, and their "stat burden" will be even lighter than it already is.
  • wilbur626wilbur626 Member Posts: 892 Arc User
    Many gear pieces, including M19 gear, has equip bonuses that grant +5000 power.
    Could these be changed to give +X% power instead to avoid going over the power stat cap? At least changing one of the two M19 armor sets (Lions Guard/Infernal) would give a proper choice for both higher and lower item level players.
    Elite Whaleboy
  • wilbur626wilbur626 Member Posts: 892 Arc User
    Fireburst armor enchantments +X% to resistances when critically struck does not show in character sheet
    Elite Whaleboy
  • l0gicalm1nd#4704 l0gicalm1nd Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited December 2020
    ***upon going to the preview server and buffing up, I no longer have a concern about DPS stats and comparative increases in damage. It is extremely easy to cap critical severity at 90%, and you really don't have to give up anything to do so.

    A serious concern I have with how this was implemented is that not all item level is created equal. Mythic companion powers give WAY more benefits per item level than anything else at the moment. For 750 item level, you get 750 combined rating AND 7.5% boost in the "other 40%" to one of your stats (or 3.75% to two of them).

    By comparison, 800 item level of enchantments give you 720 combined rating and 1200 to one of your stats, worth 1.2%. So 50 more item level gives you 30 less combined rating and 6.3% less stat impact, not to mention it is giving to the "50%" bucket which can be capped. 800 item level of insignia is in a slightly better shape, giving 640 combined rating and 1200 to two of your stats, worth 2.4%. Still it lags behind.

    Mount insignia, runestones, and enchantments are much less impactful per item level than companions, companion powers, and gear. Right now, a DPS character with all mythic companion powers/no offensive runestones/2 empty insignia slots would do significantly more (12-13%) damage than a character will all epic companion powers/rank 15's/legendary insignia, even though they would be at the same item level. And to me that feels wrong.

    How could this be fixed?

    1) Re-balance the impact of companion powers, enchantments, insignia, etc. Perhaps the cost of acquiring should be tied to the benefit, so a companion power which is ~4-5 million AD on PC to get to mythic should provide 8-10x the benefit of an insgnia (~500k) or ~2x the benefit of an enchantment (2-2.5 million). There are other ways to re-balance the impacts, but the key here is to have any source of item level provide a similar boost to overall character power.
    Post edited by l0gicalm1nd#4704 on
  • jman3l#5579 jman3l Member Posts: 300 Arc User

    Another problem is how this change makes the tier 3 hunt gear essentially obsolete. You really no longer need any + power gear for DPS, as between Forte and watermelon sorbet (still the best food) you can still easily cap with just the lion guard's bracers buff. Even if these pieces contributed to the "other 40%" side of things, they still wouldn't matter given the overall 90% cap.

    One specific piece that this change brings back is actually the 3% damage ebony stained shirt. Even on hunter ranger, arguably one of the classes with the highest amount of +% damage diminishing returns, it still outperforms the 1325 Tier 3 hunt shirt that gives +5k power, because you can easily cap power without it. Accounting for diminishing returns (60% -> 63% = 1.875% increase) and the item level loss (443/~47000 ilvl -> -.942%) it is a .933% damage increase to use this old/outdated/low ilvl shirt over the T3 hunt shirt. (prior to this change the T3 shirt was slightly better overall)

    Another example is Protege head will again be BIS for ToMM. If you want the very long grind and hard work of getting T3 pieces to not be in vain, they need to be reworked along with this major change to ensure they provide actual benefits.

    Agree. I've been posting about this constantly in this thread. Skyblazers/Whispers hood should give 10% and 7.5% CA to contribution respectively, ribcage should give 12.5% power to contribution, and lightguard 7.5% accuracy to contribution. Just examples, but something like this so they aren't completely worthless. Perhaps the stamina shirt can grant 5% crit above 75% stamina. The bonuses should all be in different stats or we grinded that hunt for nothing. This should be really easy to code.
  • sephiz#1200 sephiz Member Posts: 40 Arc User
    Every piece that gives IL by definition of the new system should give combined ratings. Currently 3 things (besides the broken augments) break this rule:

    1) Companion Enhancements (armor break, potent precision, redemption, etc). This currently gives 750 IL if a companion is active. For the most part this does not adds stats that contribute towards the ratings therefore it should give +750 combined rating since it currently lowers all total % from the 15 stats by 0.75%.

    2) Combat powers add 3000 IL but no combined ratings. Lowering the total % from all the ratings by 3%. It should probably add 3000 combined ratings.

    3) Collars. For example 5 mythic collars add 2500 IL but no combined rating lowering the total % from all the ratings by 2.5%. They should add their IL worth of combined ratings.


    A side effect of having things that add IL but no combined ratings is that they only force a recalculation of the stats tied to IL (HP/damage) and leave all your ratings intact. By exploiting this fact you can create silly things like:



    The "strongest" naked toon that is in reality 8000 IL but the game thinks it's 33.5k IL. It can even queue into master zariel ;) .

    To explain it better:
    1) Unequip all collars, combat power, companion enhancement, etc. Basically all things w/o combined ratings.
    2) Unequip Helmet and reequip helmet (this is to force a recalculation of the combat ratings)
    3) Equip all things you unequipped on step #1.

    Your IL will go up but your percentages usually stay the same. Since we upped our IL and did not add any stat all our % should go down but as I just mentioned they usually don't change (some collars sometimes manage a recalculation). Ironically this little loophole gives you the %s that you would have if the combined ratings were not missing therefore totally ethical ;).

    The picture included above is what happens after changing loadouts which shows that somewhere stuff is not getting recalculated.

    Unrelated but if I make a loadout with an empty equip/combat mount power then when I return to it from my regular loadout it remembers the last equip/combat power instead of leaving it blank as it should.
  • armadeonxarmadeonx Member Posts: 4,803 Arc User
    Question: will the new system impact artifact sets and/or gear that give straight damage boosts?

    E.g. The Constructed Demise artifact set gives a 5% damage boost and 5% damage reduction for 10 secs after activating your Daily.

    With damage now being linked to TIL and Defence being capped at 90%, will players still receive the 5% boosts on top of these limits?
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  • noworries#8859 noworries Member, Cryptic Developer Posts: 640 Cryptic Developer

    It would be nice if the other percent bonuses would show what the source is so something like

    50% (stats) + XX% (a% Ability Scores + b% Boons + c% Companion powers + d% feats + e% consumables +...)

    The issue with that is mainly that it would all be manually done. The code doesn't know where the power is coming from, a power is a power to it. So every single power would need to be manually flagged, which would almost certainly mean there would be ones flagged wrong or missing flagging all together which would make an inaccurate system. There are also I think 9 different sources of other which is a lot for a tooltip.
  • noworries#8859 noworries Member, Cryptic Developer Posts: 640 Cryptic Developer
    supmadbro said:

    I'm not 100% certain if this is the right thread for this, however It would be a nice addition if we could see our total 'other contribution' past 40%. Atm if you have capped ratings and maybe like 50% 'other contribution' it will show only 40%, it would make it much easier to play around with stats get get them closer to the cap since power and crit sev can easily go far over the 90% cap and don't really know it until you start removing a bunch of crit sev companions and realise that your crit sev is still sitting at 90%. Thanks

    Unfortunately that cap of 90% happens deep in the code and by the time it gets to things like the UI the number it is seeing is actually 90%. So right now showing how much over that total is is not possible.
  • xander#0631 xander Member Posts: 75 Arc User
    Utility Stats are now called Boosts but work as they did before:

    Action Point Gain
    Recharge Speed
    Movement Speed
    Stamina Regeneration
    Magical Damage Boost
    Physical Damage Boost
    XP Bonus
    Gold Bonus
    Glory Bonus

    now we have in enchantment and insignia a direct way to increase gold , glory bonus and xp bonus; will we see in the future enchantment/insignia to directly increase the other?
    reality is what most recognize as true
  • jman3l#5579 jman3l Member Posts: 300 Arc User
    @noworries#8859
    Item level and damage relationship needs to make it so that there is zero incentive to lower your item level for more damage. Currently on live, the T3 nightspine shirt just barely beats out ebony shirt (3% damage shirt from undermountain), with these current changes on my ranger, which has one of the highest amounts of % damages, even with those relative decreases it beats the nightspine shirt on damage because the item level increase simply isn't enough to compensate for the 3% damage, and I am way overcapped on power. This needs to be fixed. Either change the nightspine equip bonus so that its better than ebony shirt without question, or increase the item level of all T3 gear. This also applies to Celestial weapons. There are certain classes where lionheart beats celestial weapons on preview, again because the item level isn't enough to compensate for the almost 100% uptime on LH 10% damage bonus. Celestial uptime is less than 50% (by design on the weapon). Either change the celestial equip bonus so it has 100% uptime or increase the IL so it beats lionheart weapons without question.
    Thanks,
    Neko
  • rikitakirikitaki Member Posts: 765 Arc User
    @jman3l Is that an actual experience from the preview server? TBH I thought that +90% on power is the maximum your damage can be multiplied, so stacking bonuses further yields no additional benefits. Was it false knowledge on my part?
  • jman3l#5579 jman3l Member Posts: 300 Arc User
    rikitaki said:

    @jman3l Is that an actual experience from the preview server? TBH I thought that +90% on power is the maximum your damage can be multiplied, so stacking bonuses further yields no additional benefits. Was it false knowledge on my part?

    Based on the damage formula % damage is still calculated as an additive bonus separate from power. Because power caps at 50% from rating and 90% total, 1% power/1% CA > 1% damage in terms of damage, unless you are capped on rating. Because upper pact bonds of the inferno/blaze bond give a flat 5k power to rating, its useless. You get no benefit from that 5k power at all. If it was 5% power and went to the 40% contribution, then we are talking. That would beat ebony no problem provided you are at 85% and under when equipping it.
  • rikitakirikitaki Member Posts: 765 Arc User
    @damnacious for deflect severity check Shadow Demon companion in utility slot. (however, from the tooltip I am not sure how exactly it works - if it gives deflect severity once every 30 seconds, or always and the timer is only for the reflected damage)
  • jman3l#5579 jman3l Member Posts: 300 Arc User
    edited December 2020
    Here are screenshots showing that Goristo's Horns are incorrectly giving 10% critical strike to rating instead of contribution like it should.

    Not in combat:
    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/723829709829308448/787021994398580766/unknown.png

    In combat
    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/723829709829308448/787022397097377792/unknown.png:
  • admiralwarlord#3792 admiralwarlord Member Posts: 468 Arc User

    Here are screenshots showing that Goristo's Horns are incorrectly giving 10% critical strike to rating instead of contribution like it should.

    Not in combat:
    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/723829709829308448/787021994398580766/unknown.png

    In combat
    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/723829709829308448/787022397097377792/unknown.png:

    Normal, since 1% = 100. Probably the tier 3 power equipment will still be scaled like this.
  • admiralwarlord#3792 admiralwarlord Member Posts: 468 Arc User

    IMHO any "permanent" sources of ratings should provide percentages instead of absolute stats. What do I mean?

    With every new module there will be new gear with higher item level. This gear provides absolute stats. That's fine since stats and item level are increased.

    Mounts, enchantmens, and runestones do not change with new modules. There is no increase in the absolute stats they provide. Therefore their contribution and thus their value diminished when item level increases. That is a bad thing because it devaluates the investment made.

    Companions and boons are fine. They already provide percentages which do not diminish with increased item levels.

    Why can't mounts, enchantments, and runestones behave like companions and boons? Even though they add to a different category than companions and boons that should be possible.

    Item level only affects the damage that has been removed from weapons. There are many old equipment softer than new ones that will be used again, as I lose only item level (damage) but that will give me more damage ex: Fured Kiuno of the Bear: +3% damage for Melee Powers. With the removal of bondings, new players will probably have to use new equipment such as the Wyvern set, while players with maximum mount boolster and teammates will choose what they want to use as ex the Demon Lord's set. That's the answer to the paradox of Northside's last video on youtube

    Have you ever imagined that the best shirt and pants for helers would be those of Underdark again? Loving and laughing a lot while looking at the collections to see what was good in the past to have a solid build, but at the moment I have doubts about stacks of these bonuses.
  • jman3l#5579 jman3l Member Posts: 300 Arc User
    > @admiralwarlord#3792 said:
    > Item level only affects the damage that has been removed from weapons. There are many old equipment softer than new ones that will be used again, as I lose only item level (damage) but that will give me more damage ex: Fured Kiuno of the Bear: +3% damage for Melee Powers. With the removal of bondings, new players will probably have to use new equipment such as the Wyvern set, while players with maximum mount boolster and teammates will choose what they want to use as ex the Demon Lord's set. That's the answer to the paradox of Northside's last video on youtube
    >
    > Have you ever imagined that the best shirt and pants for helers would be those of Underdark again? Loving and laughing a lot while looking at the collections to see what was good in the past to have a solid build, but at the moment I have doubts about stacks of these bonuses.

    If that's the case then it needs to be fixed. I do not want the demon lord set revived. It was BIS for like 6 mods ffs. It took them 6 mods to nerf it. The level 80 gear needs enough of an item level increase to keep it better than they'll level 70 gear. This also goes for celestial weapons. We complete this crazy trial to get these weapons with a terrible equip bonus that already barely beat lol heart weapons, and now they fall behind lionheart weapons again lol.
  • jman3l#5579 jman3l Member Posts: 300 Arc User
    edited December 2020
    > @admiralwarlord#3792 said:
    > Normal, since 1% = 100. Probably the tier 3 power equipment will still be scaled like this.

    No a % equip bonus should not have its stats allocated to rating. They should be allocated to the contribution portion. In the screenshots you see my critical strike rating increasing, not increasing my overall critical strike because my rating is already way overcapped on the 50% item level rating part of the stat. It needs to be fixed.
    Post edited by jman3l#5579 on
  • admiralwarlord#3792 admiralwarlord Member Posts: 468 Arc User
    @jman31 On the first point, you will see that there are lose attributes, for example, tanks will continue to use the new sets because they give +5 of constitution and this represents a 50% buff in hp.

    The weapons are a great point of doubt yet, but if everything remains as is today in the preview I would for example, I will exchange my weapons for those of Barovia, since I have neither the Lion's nor the Celestial ones. First because it delivers stable bonus damage and second I still don't know how citadel weapons will work, if the 10% critical severity in her bonus will be equal to the vorpal (above the 90% cap) or will add to the status.

    In the third point, all equipment bonuses will work this way, giving status, and this is good, since in the preview with the max bolster companion it is very easy to get the caps, but live many, including i, will have a lot of work to achieve them.

    You'll still be able to use your Music Box set, as it's perfect for Ranger, but other classes suffer by choosing something really useful. As quoted by dev, there are actually many ways to build a char, just need to have the knowledge for it. Remember that BIS was not always the new or the most item level in this game.
  • admiralwarlord#3792 admiralwarlord Member Posts: 468 Arc User
    How to make a strong construction with a focus on action point, something that is currently undervalued in the game with the example of @jman31.

    1. With 20 points in constitution there is a gain of +5% action point;
    2. +5% of the collar (the cheapest in the game in its category);
    3. +4% of the boons;
    4. +2,5% of the Artifact Class Future of Weapon;
    5. +1% of the Infernal shirt if u deal 15% of damage every 5 sec;
    6. +1% when kill a enemy of helm that drop in Zok (work vs boss same the boon);
    7. +0,25% of pant of Avernus T3 with 10% chance if critical;
    8. + Quick Action (mount equip power);
    9. + Evenomend Artifact;

    It still has overlords, food and potions and many others to gain action point.

    Now imagine for those who don't know that a Ranger can use daily power with 50% and that it would give it a +15% damage buff when not seen (e.g. combat advantage position) for 10 sec. Not to mention that when using an item with a lot more item level, it would already be gaining damage. To find out if this building is better than that of a Ranger using the demon lords set only with tests, but I believe so.

    With these changes it is realistically possible to have diversity among players.
  • wilbur626wilbur626 Member Posts: 892 Arc User
    Electrum Ring of the Herald adds +5% to stat rating, not other contributions
    Elite Whaleboy
  • nisckisnisckis Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 654 Arc User

    [...]- The active artifact getting an extra 150 IL would translate to a 0.15% loss on every rating. Adding combined ratings here would be awkward so I would just remove the extra IL and make it like equipment bonuses. It's so undocumented that most would not notice ;)

    The primary artifact is quite funny, it costs you an extra 50% IL that gives you no extra stats.
  • jman3l#5579 jman3l Member Posts: 300 Arc User
    edited December 2020

    How to make a strong construction with a focus on action point, something that is currently undervalued in the game with the example of @jman31.

    1. With 20 points in constitution there is a gain of +5% action point;
    2. +5% of the collar (the cheapest in the game in its category);
    3. +4% of the boons;
    4. +2,5% of the Artifact Class Future of Weapon;
    5. +1% of the Infernal shirt if u deal 15% of damage every 5 sec;
    6. +1% when kill a enemy of helm that drop in Zok (work vs boss same the boon);
    7. +0,25% of pant of Avernus T3 with 10% chance if critical;
    8. + Quick Action (mount equip power);
    9. + Evenomend Artifact;

    It still has overlords, food and potions and many others to gain action point.

    Now imagine for those who don't know that a Ranger can use daily power with 50% and that it would give it a +15% damage buff when not seen (e.g. combat advantage position) for 10 sec. Not to mention that when using an item with a lot more item level, it would already be gaining damage. To find out if this building is better than that of a Ranger using the demon lords set only with tests, but I believe so.

    With these changes it is realistically possible to have diversity among players.

    Demonlord set needs to stay dead. It was BIS for way, WAY too long. Also, it remains to be seen if that much AP gain is worth it. Our dailies don't do damage on ranger class. We use disruptive shot to proc a 10% damage on ranged powers feat and to proc inherit danger set bonus, that is about it. We already have almost 100% uptime on that even in mod 19. Since AP gain was already buffed, I can probably already have 100% uptime on this without resorting to all of that. I would definitely keep the T3 shirt (once equip bonus is fixed). I think music box set is definitely BIS for ranger with all the diminishing returns on % damage from demonlord set. Plus its probably an average of 4%, if that.

    The new sets have 980 IL neck/waist and 300 IL artifact.

    Compare inherit danger set to demonlord set:
    2*980+300 - 2*575 -150 = 960 IL difference.

    That is 96*1.2 (20% bonus for dps class) = 115.2 damage.

    I'm sitting at about 6400 damage with inherit danger set. That means already there is a 1.83% undiminished damage increase from demonlord to inherit danger set. New set equip bonuses only really have to be 2.17% damage or more to beat demonlord set on every class (I challenge anybody to show me they can get more than 4% out of demonlord set. Even that is probably too much.)
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