If I understand correctly, it means the first run actually gives you 6600 for the skirmish and 7900 for the dungeon for a total of 14500. Why not change it to these values to make it less confusing?
This is correct, I apologize for the confusing communication, and when the patch notes and blog post eventually go out I will be sure to clean this up. Internally this is how the bonuses are handled, so as these numbers will be shifting on preview I wanted to keep the language consistent so there were no cases if the wrong values being indicated.
To run a random skirmish you need to have all skirmishes unlocked, this means investing in the different campaigns and get IL high enough to do IG.
Once you've reached level 70 you will need to advance your item level a little to access the queue again, however, in terms of campaign progression, the only skirmishes that will require campaign progression are Master of the Hunt, Dread Legion and Merchant Prince's Folly—and they only require you have done the very first intro mission to arrive at the zone.
If you are under item lvl 11,000 and do not have every t3 dungeon you are screwed by this change, because you will not be able to run epics so no salvage for you with your bonus AD.
This is not the case. You can absolutely still run epics for salvage. The only significant AD bonuses are from the first run of the day, so you'll run 1 dungeon then 1 skirmish. At that point if you can run any end game queue, the salvage you get as well as the salvage from any seals you earn will easily outpace the repeatable bonus from running more leveling dungeons or skirmishes.
Those repeatable bonuses are only there as a subtle encouragement for you if you are thinking of running something in that category and are willing to be unspecific about your selection.
You specify "level" as the only limiter, what about item level?
Player level is the only limiter that can be bypassed in the described manner. If someone's item level is too low, they and their group are ineligible for the random queue.
So if I take off my armor and unsummon my companion and my IL drops below 11K, I'll be able to random queue without getting stuck in FBI or MSP with a group that can't complete it?
Incorrect, this is the exact behavior the restriction is meant to prevent. Given that there is currently no item level scaling on lower tier dungeons, it's obvious that your efficiency will be higher if you get the easiest, fastest dungeon when you random queue. If you can remove gear to force the random queue to give you that scenario, the system fundamentally does not work.
Oh and, uh, so "Random Epic Trial" isn't really going to be very RANDOM a lot of the time. If I form a queue group of 25 people, and whack "take me to the Random Epic Trials that my queue group qualifies for", I'm going to be SHOCKED if we wind up in MSVA or nDemo.
You cannot queue for a random trial with more than 10 players. I addressed this a bit in the original post in the section about restrictions. If you have 25 players and want to play Tiamat, you'll need to queue manually. With 10 players you may end up in a Tiamat, but it's very likely you'll end up in another trial.
However every time the matter has come up on the forums regarding over leveled characters in this content, the general reaction of leveling players has been one of extreme annoyance and frustration. Pushing even more geared characters into this content seems as if it will simply worsen the experience of leveling players, even if they get their queues faster.
We are aware that currently a level 70 player in a leveling dungeon is far too powerful (given that they are supposed to ostensibly be scaled down to the proper level), and this is something we are looking into adjusting, but not for Module 12B. In the meantime, the massive experience point bonuses from using the random queues while leveling should be a nice boon for players leveling up.
1
plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,453Arc User
If you are under item lvl 11,000 and do not have every t3 dungeon you are screwed by this change, because you will not be able to run epics so no salvage for you with your bonus AD.
This is not the case. You can absolutely still run epics for salvage. The only significant AD bonuses are from the first run of the day, so you'll run 1 dungeon then 1 skirmish. At that point if you can run any end game queue, the salvage you get as well as the salvage from any seals you earn will easily outpace the repeatable bonus from running more leveling dungeons or skirmishes.
Those repeatable bonuses are only there as a subtle encouragement for you if you are thinking of running something in that category and are willing to be unspecific about your selection.
This part makes me worry. Can you clarify?
Can I do the following and still get AD?
1. play a non-random epic dungeon such as ETOS 2. play a random level dungeon (the first random dungeon of the day).
My first dungeon in this situation is ETOS and it is not from random queue. Will I get 0 AD in this situation?
Or, I just have to:
1. play a random level dungeon. 2. ......
Another question:
Is the a way for me to check if I did the random dungeon of the day or not? I have multiple toon and sometime I got confused what I have done with which toon.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
2
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
You don't need a full queue group to use the random queue system, only if you want the party full of ringers so that you'll ensure a win if you get hit with something hard. So you can queue into a random trial without having the numbers for it, because the game will fill the trial with whatever other players are also in the random queue.
If you are under item lvl 11,000 and do not have every t3 dungeon you are screwed by this change, because you will not be able to run epics so no salvage for you with your bonus AD.
This is not the case. You can absolutely still run epics for salvage. The only significant AD bonuses are from the first run of the day, so you'll run 1 dungeon then 1 skirmish. At that point if you can run any end game queue, the salvage you get as well as the salvage from any seals you earn will easily outpace the repeatable bonus from running more leveling dungeons or skirmishes.
Those repeatable bonuses are only there as a subtle encouragement for you if you are thinking of running something in that category and are willing to be unspecific about your selection.
... but you *can't* run the "first dungeon of the day" until you're IL 11,000 and have unlocked FBI and MSP.
Or are we back on encouraging L70 players to run levelling dungeons, which they have massively outlevelled, which presents no challenge or entertainment, and which ruins the experience for actual level-appropriate players?
You should be making it *worse* for overpowered characters to stomp low-level content, not better, to reward playing actual content and to avoid them interfering with levelling players. If you want level 70s to run Cloak Tower or Pirate King or Karrundax, make a level 70 version of them. In the mean time, a character who can run epic dungeons should be REWARDED for preferring epic dungeons over levelling dungeons, not penalised.
So if I take off my armor and unsummon my companion and my IL drops below 11K, I'll be able to random queue without getting stuck in FBI or MSP with a group that can't complete it?
Incorrect, this is the exact behavior the restriction is meant to prevent. Given that there is currently no item level scaling on lower tier dungeons, it's obvious that your efficiency will be higher if you get the easiest, fastest dungeon when you random queue. If you can remove gear to force the random queue to give you that scenario, the system fundamentally does not work.
Well, that's at least one downside you predicted and worked around.
But now we're back to the fundamental problem of needing 11K and all T3s unlocked to get any benefit from the *of-level* content. Worse, since while an 11K player can contribute well to an FBI or MSP run, a group of *all* 11K characters can never complete the dungeon, and being forced into the sub-par "one healer, one tank, 3 DPS" party model means you need even higher ILs on average.
Could we at least make the queues accept AT LEAST one healer-class, AT LEAST one tank-class?
However every time the matter has come up on the forums regarding over leveled characters in this content, the general reaction of leveling players has been one of extreme annoyance and frustration. Pushing even more geared characters into this content seems as if it will simply worsen the experience of leveling players, even if they get their queues faster.
We are aware that currently a level 70 player in a leveling dungeon is far too powerful (given that they are supposed to ostensibly be scaled down to the proper level), and this is something we are looking into adjusting, but not for Module 12B. In the meantime, the massive experience point bonuses from using the random queues while leveling should be a nice boon for players leveling up.
I really don't think pushing more level 70s into queues with level 45 characters is going to be seen as a benefit for the L45s, not even if they get "massive" XP bonuses while they watch other players destroy the content around them without being able to meaningfully participate. You should be looking for ways to get level 70 players to *stop* running the levelling dungeons, not run more of them, since they're not challenging AND the presence of level 70 characters ruins the experience for non-70s.
1. play a non-random epic dungeon such as ETOS 2. play a random level dungeon (the first random dungeon of the day).
My first dungeon in this situation is ETOS and it is not from random queue. Will I get 0 AD in this situation?
Or, I just have to:
1. play a random level dungeon. 2. ......
Assuming you do not meet the requirements for a random epic dungeon or trial, and you are not PvPing, the new flow is going to look something like this:
Run Random: Skirmish, collect 6600 rough AD, plus any salvage.
Run Random: Dungeon, collect 7900 rough AD.
Go run whatever epic dungeon or level 70 skirmish you prefer to farm and collect any salvage (in your case, you suggested Temple of the Spider (Master.))
Points of clarification: Random: Dungeon means only things in the category "dungeon" and not things in the category "epic dungeon," basically this means leveling dungeons. You will not receive any "bonus AD" from running that EToS manually, but you will have already received 14500 bonus rough AD (and some bonus seals) from the first 2 random queues. At this point, it will be as if you are farming EToS for the third time that day, having already obtained all your bonuses.
The only difference here will be that you will not receive the 600 repeatable AD bonus you used to receive for running subsequent dungeons after your daily bonus is obtained. Depending on the number of alts you have and the amount of time you have to play, you may be earning rough AD faster in the new world, even with just the 2 aforementioned random queues. Certainly on days where you only have time to run 2 queues you will be earning more per day.
If you're running a long time on a single character, you may make a bit less from not receiving the 600 AD bonus for each EToS. However, once your character is strong enough to run the other random queues, you will obviously be able to earn a lot more bonus AD.
It may be a bit difficult to imagine what this world looks like, but based on play patterns, for the vast majority of players, you're going to be earning more rough AD per day on average.
Is the a way for me to check if I did the random dungeon of the day or not? I have multiple toon and sometime I got confused what I have done with which toon.
Absolutely! One of the big quality of life improvements we're making is in regards to making it clear what bonuses you are eligible for and when you receive them. In the queue window when you have a random queue selected your current bonus will be displayed. If it's daily it will say Daily Bonus and the seal and AD rewards will be displayed with a flashy gold border. If you've already received it, the gold will be gone and you will see Repeat Bonus. In addition, the role bonus will be grayed out or lit up depending on whether you currently qualify for it.
Finally, when you complete a random queue your daily, repeatable and any relevant role bonuses will be clearly displayed on the scoreboard.
3
plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,453Arc User
1. play a non-random epic dungeon such as ETOS 2. play a random level dungeon (the first random dungeon of the day).
My first dungeon in this situation is ETOS and it is not from random queue. Will I get 0 AD in this situation?
Or, I just have to:
1. play a random level dungeon. 2. ......
Assuming you do not meet the requirements for a random epic dungeon or trial, and you are not PvPing, the new flow is going to look something like this:
Run Random: Skirmish, collect 6600 rough AD, plus any salvage.
Run Random: Dungeon, collect 7900 rough AD.
Go run whatever epic dungeon or level 70 skirmish you prefer to farm and collect any salvage (in your case, you suggested Temple of the Spider (Master.))
Points of clarification: Random: Dungeon means only things in the category "dungeon" and not things in the category "epic dungeon," basically this means leveling dungeons. You will not receive any "bonus AD" from running that EToS manually, but you will have already received 14500 bonus rough AD (and some bonus seals) from the first 2 random queues. At this point, it will be as if you are farming EToS for the third time that day, having already obtained all your bonuses.
The only difference here will be that you will not receive the 600 repeatable AD bonus you used to receive for running subsequent dungeons after your daily bonus is obtained. Depending on the number of alts you have and the amount of time you have to play, you may be earning rough AD faster in the new world, even with just the 2 aforementioned random queues. Certainly on days where you only have time to run 2 queues you will be earning more per day.
If you're running a long time on a single character, you may make a bit less from not receiving the 600 AD bonus for each EToS. However, once your character is strong enough to run the other random queues, you will obviously be able to earn a lot more bonus AD.
It may be a bit difficult to imagine what this world looks like, but based on play patterns, for the vast majority of players, you're going to be earning more rough AD per day on average.
Is the a way for me to check if I did the random dungeon of the day or not? I have multiple toon and sometime I got confused what I have done with which toon.
Absolutely! One of the big quality of life improvements we're making is in regards to making it clear what bonuses you are eligible for and when you receive them. In the queue window when you have a random queue selected your current bonus will be displayed. If it's daily it will say Daily Bonus and the seal and AD rewards will be displayed with a flashy gold border. If you've already received it, the gold will be gone and you will see Repeat Bonus. In addition, the role bonus will be grayed out or lit up depending on whether you currently qualify for it.
Finally, when you complete a random queue your daily, repeatable and any relevant role bonuses will be clearly displayed on the scoreboard.
Q1. Must I be in that order:
Random skirmish first, random dungeon 2nd?
Can that be random dungeon first and then skirmish 2nd?
Q2. And, if I do a non random dungeon first, I basically screwed for the day? Right?
Q3. My character can do everything. Can I still do: Random skirmish first, random LEVEL dungeon 2nd? I would avoid random Epic dungeon.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
1. play a non-random epic dungeon such as ETOS 2. play a random level dungeon (the first random dungeon of the day).
My first dungeon in this situation is ETOS and it is not from random queue. Will I get 0 AD in this situation?
Or, I just have to:
1. play a random level dungeon. 2. ......
Assuming you do not meet the requirements for a random epic dungeon or trial, and you are not PvPing, the new flow is going to look something like this:
Run Random: Skirmish, collect 6600 rough AD, plus any salvage.
Run Random: Dungeon, collect 7900 rough AD.
Go run whatever epic dungeon or level 70 skirmish you prefer to farm and collect any salvage (in your case, you suggested Temple of the Spider (Master.))
But you haven't answered his question.
He asked, what if he runs EToS *first*, then a random levelling dungeon. Because the random levelling dungeon is the first RANDOM dungeon of the day but not the first DUNGEON of the day, will he fail to get his daily dungeon AD?
Points of clarification: Random: Dungeon means only things in the category "dungeon" and not things in the category "epic dungeon," basically this means leveling dungeons. You will not receive any "bonus AD" from running that EToS manually, but you will have already received 14500 bonus rough AD (and some bonus seals) from the first 2 random queues.
Are you saying he *MUST* run the random levelling dungeon *FIRST*, before a non-random dungeon, in order to get the bonus AD? His *first dungeon of the day* must be Random in order to get bonus AD? Or his *first random dungeon of the day* will grant bonus AD, regardless of how many non-random dungeons he runs before it?
We are aware that currently a level 70 player in a leveling dungeon is far too powerful (given that they are supposed to ostensibly be scaled down to the proper level), and this is something we are looking into adjusting, but not for Module 12B.
I won't pretend to be happy with these changes but should that happen, it would be a great day and make running that content easier to bear. Especially if you used that change to also fix Vault of the Nine, Tyranny Lairs and CTA style events that ostensibly level up chars but in reality do next to nothing in letting them run the content.
"We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
Well, that's at least one downside you predicted and worked around.
We absolutely try! (This response is a bit of a digression, but some of you may find it interesting. If you're just concerned with details related to the upcoming feature, feel free to skip to the next question.) Game design is filled with Sophie's choices, particularly when working on a live game. There are plenty of cases where we have to make a decision that will anger certain players but benefit others, or improve the experience in some less tangible way.
As a player we naturally gravitate towards the most efficient path. Part of a designer's job in a live game is to make sure that the most efficient path is also the most enjoyable. There are obviously conflicts though when the most efficient path is altered, as we are forcing people to change their habits. Certain players may also be more than happy to have a most efficient path that involves doing the same thing over and over.
We don't specifically have it out for you! But in a world where everyone will naturally gravitate towards the most efficient path, it's nearly impossible to allow both variety and rote repetition to coexist meaningfully.
But now we're back to the fundamental problem of needing 11K and all T3s unlocked to get any benefit from the *of-level* content.
Because we have moved the entire existing daily bonus's total value down to just the skirmish and dungeon, hopefully people can start to look at the epic dungeon random queue bonus as not something that is being withheld from them if they run an EToS, but something that is a bonus if they run a random epic dungeon having met all the requirements, and were willing to complete whatever came their way. Running EToS or Castle Never, etc. manually will still be a good way to advance your character's equipment, etc.
Obviously it's hard to think this way about the bonuses right now because everyone is used to the way they worked before. But that's why we are continually making adjustments. It's difficult with something like this to imagine how it will feel once it's become part of your normal play experience, or if you're introduce to the system as a first time player without having known the old system.
Could we at least make the queues accept AT LEAST one healer-class, AT LEAST one tank-class?
We are aware that there is some concern that the best groups do not actually currently run 1 tank, 1 healer and 3 DPS. The current meta has evolved this way unintentionally due to the overwhelming power of buffs and debuffs, as opposed to being a distinct direction we were driving in.
This is part of the reason we are continually making adjustments to player powers. The design team is in discussions about what we would like to do long term in regards to how far off the meta is from the original design, but we don't plan to adjust the restrictions at least for launch of the feature. Loose restrictions will create more difficulties in the matchmaking algorithm and slow down the rate at which queues fire, so we'd like to avoid that for now, but we will absolutely monitor the situation.
1. play a non-random epic dungeon such as ETOS 2. play a random level dungeon (the first random dungeon of the day).
My first dungeon in this situation is ETOS and it is not from random queue. Will I get 0 AD in this situation?
Or, I just have to:
1. play a random level dungeon. 2. ......
Assuming you do not meet the requirements for a random epic dungeon or trial, and you are not PvPing, the new flow is going to look something like this:
Run Random: Skirmish, collect 6600 rough AD, plus any salvage.
Run Random: Dungeon, collect 7900 rough AD.
Go run whatever epic dungeon or level 70 skirmish you prefer to farm and collect any salvage (in your case, you suggested Temple of the Spider (Master.))
But you haven't answered his question.
He asked, what if he runs EToS *first*, then a random levelling dungeon. Because the random levelling dungeon is the first RANDOM dungeon of the day but not the first DUNGEON of the day, will he fail to get his daily dungeon AD?
Points of clarification: Random: Dungeon means only things in the category "dungeon" and not things in the category "epic dungeon," basically this means leveling dungeons. You will not receive any "bonus AD" from running that EToS manually, but you will have already received 14500 bonus rough AD (and some bonus seals) from the first 2 random queues.
Are you saying he *MUST* run the random levelling dungeon *FIRST*, before a non-random dungeon, in order to get the bonus AD? His *first dungeon of the day* must be Random in order to get bonus AD? Or his *first random dungeon of the day* will grant bonus AD, regardless of how many non-random dungeons he runs before it?
Sorry about the confusion! I misunderstood the question. Which thing you do first has no bearing on anything. The whole system is much simpler now, you don't have to think about what you're doing first unless you're just thinking of efficiency vs. your play time ending unexpectedly.
To clarify: if you run EToS, you haven't prevented yourself from getting any sort of daily bonus, from either Random: Dungeon or Random: Epic Dungeon. You could run EToS 10 times manually then run both of those random queues and receive their daily bonuses.
We are aware that there is some concern that the best groups do not actually currently run 1 tank, 1 healer and 3 DPS. The current meta has evolved this way unintentionally due to the overwhelming power of buffs and debuffs, as opposed to being a distinct direction we were driving in.
I think the current design of single target boss fights contributes to this as well. It is very easy in this situation to concentrate all the buffing and debuffing when the fight takes place in a tiny arena against one target.
"We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
Well, that's at least one downside you predicted and worked around.
We absolutely try! (This response is a bit of a digression, but some of you may find it interesting. If you're just concerned with details related to the upcoming feature, feel free to skip to the next question.) Game design is filled with Sophie's choices, particularly when working on a live game. There are plenty of cases where we have to make a decision that will anger certain players but benefit others, or improve the experience in some less tangible way.
As a player we naturally gravitate towards the most efficient path. Part of a designer's job in a live game is to make sure that the most efficient path is also the most enjoyable. There are obviously conflicts though when the most efficient path is altered, as we are forcing people to change their habits. Certain players may also be more than happy to have a most efficient path that involves doing the same thing over and over.
We don't specifically have it out for you! But in a world where everyone will naturally gravitate towards the most efficient path, it's nearly impossible to allow both variety and rote repetition to coexist meaningfully.
But you're *discouraging* varied content while *encouraging* rote repetition of non-content.
The levelling dungeons, for a level 70 character, are NOT CONTENT. No actual play is required. I can join any of them, hit "t" for auto-walk, ignore all the monsters, aim my mouse to move around corners until I reach the first door, attack a few times to clear out all the enemies, open the door, and repeat. I one-shot every non-boss and 90% of bosses. No boss survives a full encounter rotation from ANY of my characters. If I go AFK my companion will eventually kill all the monsters for me, long before they kill me. On my DC if I select my Virtuous loadout I can just stand there forever and all the enemies will kill *themselves* by attacking me - my automatic self-heals triggering DR+SKT boons do more than enough damage to clear a levelling dungeon.
My experience is not unusual or exceptional. My toons are all 15K, but even fresh 70s have zero problem soloing Spellplague or Karrundax, let alone Cloak Tower or Pirate King.
The levelling dungeons are *not fun*. They are *not engaging*. They do *not require any skill or effort*. Because of this, with this change they are *all exactly the same*: A timer that you set between 5 and 25 minutes that pops out 7,000 AD when it expires.
I have no problem with wanting people to queue for more than just the same dungeons forever to get daily AD but I want to queue for A DUNGEON to get my AD, and with this change you are PUNISHING people for choosing to run content they have trouble with and REWARDING them for running non-content that even the lowest 70 could solo using at-wills only.
But now we're back to the fundamental problem of needing 11K and all T3s unlocked to get any benefit from the *of-level* content.
Because we have moved the entire existing daily bonus's total value down to just the skirmish and dungeon, hopefully people can start to look at the epic dungeon random queue bonus as not something that is being withheld from them if they run an EToS, but something that is a bonus if they run a random epic dungeon having met all the requirements, and were willing to complete whatever came their way. Running EToS or Castle Never, etc. manually will still be a good way to advance your character's equipment, etc.
Obviously it's hard to think this way about the bonuses right now because everyone is used to the way they worked before. But that's why we are continually making adjustments. It's difficult with something like this to imagine how it will feel once it's become part of your normal play experience, or if you're introduce to the system as a first time player without having known the old system.
My problem really is *all* about the levelling dungeons being a thing you expect level 70 characters to have fun doing. They're not fun. They're not interesting. And the presence of level 70 characters means that non-70s can't find them fun or interesting either. But for a non-BIS character to ever get to the rewards for doing level 70 content, you're making it so they *must* run the uninteresting no-challenge levelling content
You think it sucks that nobody does normal Spellplague Caverns on a regular basis so that content is "wasted"? I agree, it does suck that nobody wants to do that dungeon, but it's *not interesting*. It's boring as heck. There's no challenge and the only reason any level 70 character will EVER stick their head into it is because you've inexplicably gated their progress towards EPIC dungeons behind running through normal Spellplague one-shotting everything.
6
thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
Feedback: Random Queue AD.
@asterdahl could you possibly tier the AD rewards in such a way so that if you run multiples of a higher tier of random queue it counts for the lower tier. For example, if I ran 6 random queues for an epic dungeon, it does the following:
1) The first 2 times I random queue it gives me the reward for the epic dungeon. 2) The 3rd and 4th I random queue for an epic dungeon, it gives me the reward for a normal dungeon. 3) The 5th and 6th time I random queue for an epic dungeon, it gives me the reward for a skirmish.
And building on that, if you random queue for a dungeon 4 times, it also gives you the bonus for skirmishes. At the end of the day, I am perfectly willing to random queue epic dungeons multiple times, but I do not find much fun in queuing for content that I am significantly above the level bracket for and don't really want to feel like I am being forced to run through level 12 content for AD. Considering the epic dungeons are obviously harder than the dungeons/skirmishes, I don't see any reason why if you decide to random queue for them additional times it shouldn't give you the reward for random queuing for easier stuff.
At the end of the day, I am perfectly willing to random queue epic dungeons multiple times, but I do not find much fun in queuing for content that I am significantly above the level bracket for and don't really want to feel like I am being forced to run through level 12 content for AD. Considering the epic dungeons are obviously harder than the dungeons/skirmishes, I don't see any reason why if you decide to random queue for them additional times it shouldn't give you the reward for random queuing for easier stuff.
^---- good suggestion! It unfortunately doesn't help people who want to rewarded for running more challenging content but haven't yet unlocked MSP and FBI.
How about allowing people who have not unlocked every T3 dungeon to queue for any epic dungeon they HAVE unlocked, to get the normal (not Epic) dungeon AD for the day? They would almost certainly have to be solo to make sure the list of available dungeons really is theirs *and only* theirs and to not allow anyone else to "piggyback" on the smaller dungeon list, but I can't see any reason at all an 8K L70 shouldn't be able to queue for "random between MC, VT, and ELOL" and get the same reward as if they'd queued for "random no-challenge sub-70 dungeon".
Even if the system pays more and technically has more variety, I am not sure making leveling dungeons the "variety" is going to be very fun. If you are going to adjust this content to scale down high level character later, great, but what about now?
After the changes I will be "forced" (highest AD per time invested.. maybe) to run content that is obnoxiously easy, to the point of being able to afk and still kill everything in the dungeon that attacks me. You say I should be able to get more AD in the new system, but a new and extremely boring activity (leveling dungeons) has been added to the list of things I need to do in order to get it.
Is there any chance that the majority of the dungeon or epic dungeon bonus could be handed out on the first win of either queue type, instead of all on leveling dungeons. It doesn't make any sense to include the majority in the epics, since very few will be able to get it, and it doesn't make sense to include the majority in leveling dungeon, since high geared players definitely don't want to run those. Is there any way that the bonus could simply be given for the first one of the two you complete?
Sorry about the confusion! I misunderstood the question. Which thing you do first has no bearing on anything. The whole system is much simpler now, you don't have to think about what you're doing first unless you're just thinking of efficiency vs. your play time ending unexpectedly.
To clarify: if you run EToS, you haven't prevented yourself from getting any sort of daily bonus, from either Random: Dungeon or Random: Epic Dungeon. You could run EToS 10 times manually then run both of those random queues and receive their daily bonuses.
First, I applaud the efforts to get more activity into the game. I don't believe it's being gone about in the right ways at all but that's neither here nor there. At this point I already know I will not be running random dungeons because you have failed to respect the one factor in this farce that numerous people have brought up. I do not want my freedom of choice taken from me.
Anyway, back to the matter at hand, I don't believe you have answered the question that was actually asked.
To put it simply: Jane runs one manually queued eToS today. Does she receive 0 AD?
I do not care to hear that Jane is still eligible for daily bonuses, etc etc. I ONLY want to know how much AD Jane will receive if she runs that ONE manual eToS and logs off for the day.
I really like than the daily Random queue rewards now include refinement items. This is a nice trend especially when 2 higher level's of enchantments & runes.
It be nice to extend to a 'few' T2/T3 Epic Dungeons Chests or Epic Trials similar to IG or Tiamat.
Still I'll remain hopeful given how the new Bonus RP weekend will work we may see Refinement added to a few more area's or larger rewards during the bonus.
When are they going to add a few more Epic Dungeons with refinement in the final dungeon chest upon successful completion? Think it's time for a few more dungeons depending on the difficulty to include some refinement items.
Players facing more dungeon chests containing a rank 5 and a peridot are going to hold you personally responsible....
(Loot adjusted for the removal of enchant drops from content.)
This game is advertised as a free to play game. Each change "you" have made to the AD system has been difficult for those players who do not have $100's of dollars to sink into the game especially if we have alts. First, you took away AD from invoking. I could see that change because many people were just invoking for AD and not playing. Then, you took the AD from professions because of supposed botters. If your code is tight, you should not have an issue with botters being able to manipulate the code to their advantage. Now, if I understand this correctly, you are taking away AD from running skirmishes and dungeons unless we queue through a Random Generator, and play with people we have no idea who they are, or their playing style, and we have no choice of what dungeon we run? The rest of the comments are based on this understanding.
You say this is a good change, but I see nothing good about this change. I also see it changing the game from a free to play to a pay to play in some instances.
You are taking an amount of AD & Seals, that I cannot afford to loose while taking away the right to play with my friends. While it might not seem a lot of AD & Seals (it is a lot for Seals), every little bit I earn by running 2 dungeons & 2 skirmishes with my friends helps.
Those of us in a guild and an alliance like to run dungeons & skirmishes with each other will no longer be able to. Every night, you can see people looking for other people to run them. We have fun and we get to know each other from this. By using a random generator you are forcing people who do not know each other to play together. I can definitely see people taking advantage of this like they do in the CTA events. "Oh, I'm not as high a gear score as the others so I'll just hang back and not do much, if anything."AND THEN if 1 or more of us decide to leave the dungeon, we are punished.
If we do not want to complete an area, we are now being punished. I understand that it takes money to pay for developers and staff but you are now going to force people to purchase those area completion items. These items cost players $30.00. I do not have an extra $30.00 laying around. Would you please pay (send) me a completion token for SOMI? People usually do not want to complete an area because they do not like the area. For instance, I do not like SOMI and have not since the beginning. I know a lot of people who do not like SOMI. I do not like the quests nor do I like the areas.So, if I am understanding your posts, because I have not opened up the dungeons for this area, I cannot get my full AD & Seals for the day?
I suggest that you leave the AD & the Seals as is in the dungeons and if people WANT to run random dungeons, then let them get an extra 1000 AD and 10 extra seals (or more for something to make it worth their time) for the first random run in each area and leave the rest of it alone.
1
kalina311Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,082Arc User
edited September 2017
at least in mod 12b pvp we get a blood ruby for our stronghold weekly not a rank 5 lol : D
player are complaining about losing 2k ads here and there blah blah farm some extra heroic encounter and salvage or do 1 PVP stronghold weekly BOOM 4.5k ads a blood ruby a major influence voucher ... campaign currency to make keys ...those are rewards lol
I can live with these proposals. Ok, bust through a levelling dungeon & skirmish, appx 15-20 mins on one character for a quick shot of easy AD then move on to serious content. players under 70 will have to deal with an increase in 70's in 'their' dungeons, but then again, how many actual new players do we have?
I do have a couple of points/questions;
* The new anti-leaver penalty; is it being applied to all dungeons or just randoms?
* Do you still think the leaver penalty is a good idea? As a person who hardly ever leaves a run, I would rather someone who wants to leave can leave and the rest of us can get on with it, rather than have them troll the group or not join in to deliberately elicit a votekick.
* The only time I leave a group is if a player is being offensive in chat or trolling the group - this means I now have to stay and put up with it. Yes, I can block/report them, but do we really want to go that route?
* Will the vote require a majority (3/5) or a full vote (4/5)?
* Currently in levelling dungeons there is a 15 minute wait before you can votekick someone. As a run is usually completed in 5 minutes, it means players either quit or have to wait 10 mins at the door if someone is deliberately holding the group up. Can this be shortened to a more reasonable length?
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As other have stated why not just add this on top of what we already have rather than as a replacement routine. Everyone would be happy and it would become a win win for Arc as well as the player base?
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
I think there is some discrepancy here.
When we do 2 eToS, we get now both the salvage and the rAD bonus. In the new system I'm forced to the leveling dungeons, due the requirements and the chance to get stuck in some happy places. So no salvage for the same run, and we gonna flood the lowbie dungeons, until I guess the scaling changed and then that will be 'nerfed' again.
All of this means that in roughly half the time you can earn 93.5% of the rough AD it was possible to earn prior to these changes. You only need to run 1 random dungeon (this means leveling dungeon, level 70 dungeons are part of the random epic dungeon queue) and 1 random skirmish. When you factor in salvage from the additional bonus seals that were not present in leveling dungeons or skirmishes before, the total rough AD earn has gone up vs. live even if you can only run these two random queues. Additionally, the time you must invest in running those daily queues has gone down.
At the risk of stating the bleedin' obvious... this rationale only applies if you land on the same dungeon and not one that takes far longer. Trust me when I say that I'm running two Kessels and two Dread quicker than one FBI/MSPC and one IG. Mainly because when running the latter dungeons, I spend more time dying and getting back up than actually providing any genuine contribution to the process.
To correct your statement; its not half the time, it's half the number of runs. The two things are very different. We'd already worked all that out.
How about this. If you introduced another break at around the Castle Never point, you will allow players below 11k to play the dungeons aimed at them with the same relative reward structure as sub 70 characters. Otherwise you are just going to have LOTS of people playing basic dungeons. The sub 70s often doing dungeons too advanced, and plus 70s cake walking them. Which I suppose balances out a level 30 guy queuing for a L 54 dungeon, since thry prpbably won't catch up with the rest of their group till the message pops up that the rest of their group is waiting for them... always a high point of the gaming experience. Otherwise, as new higher stacked end game content comes on line new players will find the gateway to random dungeons, and their rewards, ever more impossible to attain.
When we do 2 eToS, we get now both the salvage and the rAD bonus. In the new system I'm forced to the leveling dungeons, due the requirements and the chance to get stuck in some happy places. So no salvage for the same run, and we gonna flood the lowbie dungeons, until I guess the scaling changed and then that will be 'nerfed' again.
He said we will get salvage and seals from the levelling dungeons and with that included we should earn in 1 levelling + 1 skirmish the same AD as we'd get from running x2 currently.
I am a little concerned about what they have in mind for scaling though - hopefully it won't go so far as to significantly increase time spent and even require a proper group mix (hard to do with 3 players lol)
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
When we do 2 eToS, we get now both the salvage and the rAD bonus. In the new system I'm forced to the leveling dungeons, due the requirements and the chance to get stuck in some happy places. So no salvage for the same run, and we gonna flood the lowbie dungeons, until I guess the scaling changed and then that will be 'nerfed' again.
He said we will get salvage and seals from the levelling dungeons and with that included we should earn in 1 levelling + 1 skirmish the same AD as we'd get from running x2 currently.
I am a little concerned about what they have in mind for scaling though - hopefully it won't go so far as to significantly increase time spent and even require a proper group mix (hard to do with 3 players lol)
Hmm maybe I've missed it, but leveling dungeons have non-salvageable gear, and adventurers seals. There are some bonus protectors seals from the random queue itself but that's akin to the 1 daily bag of 40 seals we get now the first run, so we can count those 2 out (the bag = random queue seals bonus, independent of the dungeon).
When we do 2 eToS, we get now both the salvage and the rAD bonus. In the new system I'm forced to the leveling dungeons, due the requirements and the chance to get stuck in some happy places. So no salvage for the same run, and we gonna flood the lowbie dungeons, until I guess the scaling changed and then that will be 'nerfed' again.
He said we will get salvage and seals from the levelling dungeons and with that included we should earn in 1 levelling + 1 skirmish the same AD as we'd get from running x2 currently.
I am a little concerned about what they have in mind for scaling though - hopefully it won't go so far as to significantly increase time spent and even require a proper group mix (hard to do with 3 players lol)
Hmm maybe I've missed it, but leveling dungeons have non-salvageable gear, and adventurers seals. There are some bonus protectors seals from the random queue itself but that's akin to the 1 daily bag of 40 seals we get now the first run, so we can count those 2 out (the bag = random queue seals bonus, independent of the dungeon).
He said he was adding them, I re-read it just to make sure
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Comments
Those repeatable bonuses are only there as a subtle encouragement for you if you are thinking of running something in that category and are willing to be unspecific about your selection. Player level is the only limiter that can be bypassed in the described manner. If someone's item level is too low, they and their group are ineligible for the random queue. Incorrect, this is the exact behavior the restriction is meant to prevent. Given that there is currently no item level scaling on lower tier dungeons, it's obvious that your efficiency will be higher if you get the easiest, fastest dungeon when you random queue. If you can remove gear to force the random queue to give you that scenario, the system fundamentally does not work. You cannot queue for a random trial with more than 10 players. I addressed this a bit in the original post in the section about restrictions. If you have 25 players and want to play Tiamat, you'll need to queue manually. With 10 players you may end up in a Tiamat, but it's very likely you'll end up in another trial. We are aware that currently a level 70 player in a leveling dungeon is far too powerful (given that they are supposed to ostensibly be scaled down to the proper level), and this is something we are looking into adjusting, but not for Module 12B. In the meantime, the massive experience point bonuses from using the random queues while leveling should be a nice boon for players leveling up.
Can I do the following and still get AD?
1. play a non-random epic dungeon such as ETOS
2. play a random level dungeon (the first random dungeon of the day).
My first dungeon in this situation is ETOS and it is not from random queue. Will I get 0 AD in this situation?
Or, I just have to:
1. play a random level dungeon.
2. ......
Another question:
Is the a way for me to check if I did the random dungeon of the day or not? I have multiple toon and sometime I got confused what I have done with which toon.
At least in theory.
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Or are we back on encouraging L70 players to run levelling dungeons, which they have massively outlevelled, which presents no challenge or entertainment, and which ruins the experience for actual level-appropriate players?
You should be making it *worse* for overpowered characters to stomp low-level content, not better, to reward playing actual content and to avoid them interfering with levelling players. If you want level 70s to run Cloak Tower or Pirate King or Karrundax, make a level 70 version of them. In the mean time, a character who can run epic dungeons should be REWARDED for preferring epic dungeons over levelling dungeons, not penalised. Well, that's at least one downside you predicted and worked around.
But now we're back to the fundamental problem of needing 11K and all T3s unlocked to get any benefit from the *of-level* content. Worse, since while an 11K player can contribute well to an FBI or MSP run, a group of *all* 11K characters can never complete the dungeon, and being forced into the sub-par "one healer, one tank, 3 DPS" party model means you need even higher ILs on average.
Could we at least make the queues accept AT LEAST one healer-class, AT LEAST one tank-class?
I really don't think pushing more level 70s into queues with level 45 characters is going to be seen as a benefit for the L45s, not even if they get "massive" XP bonuses while they watch other players destroy the content around them without being able to meaningfully participate. You should be looking for ways to get level 70 players to *stop* running the levelling dungeons, not run more of them, since they're not challenging AND the presence of level 70 characters ruins the experience for non-70s.
- Run Random: Skirmish, collect 6600 rough AD, plus any salvage.
- Run Random: Dungeon, collect 7900 rough AD.
- Go run whatever epic dungeon or level 70 skirmish you prefer to farm and collect any salvage (in your case, you suggested Temple of the Spider (Master.))
Points of clarification: Random: Dungeon means only things in the category "dungeon" and not things in the category "epic dungeon," basically this means leveling dungeons. You will not receive any "bonus AD" from running that EToS manually, but you will have already received 14500 bonus rough AD (and some bonus seals) from the first 2 random queues. At this point, it will be as if you are farming EToS for the third time that day, having already obtained all your bonuses.The only difference here will be that you will not receive the 600 repeatable AD bonus you used to receive for running subsequent dungeons after your daily bonus is obtained. Depending on the number of alts you have and the amount of time you have to play, you may be earning rough AD faster in the new world, even with just the 2 aforementioned random queues. Certainly on days where you only have time to run 2 queues you will be earning more per day.
If you're running a long time on a single character, you may make a bit less from not receiving the 600 AD bonus for each EToS. However, once your character is strong enough to run the other random queues, you will obviously be able to earn a lot more bonus AD.
It may be a bit difficult to imagine what this world looks like, but based on play patterns, for the vast majority of players, you're going to be earning more rough AD per day on average. Absolutely! One of the big quality of life improvements we're making is in regards to making it clear what bonuses you are eligible for and when you receive them. In the queue window when you have a random queue selected your current bonus will be displayed. If it's daily it will say Daily Bonus and the seal and AD rewards will be displayed with a flashy gold border. If you've already received it, the gold will be gone and you will see Repeat Bonus. In addition, the role bonus will be grayed out or lit up depending on whether you currently qualify for it.
Finally, when you complete a random queue your daily, repeatable and any relevant role bonuses will be clearly displayed on the scoreboard.
Random skirmish first, random dungeon 2nd?
Can that be random dungeon first and then skirmish 2nd?
Q2. And, if I do a non random dungeon first, I basically screwed for the day? Right?
Q3. My character can do everything. Can I still do:
Random skirmish first, random LEVEL dungeon 2nd?
I would avoid random Epic dungeon.
He asked, what if he runs EToS *first*, then a random levelling dungeon.
Because the random levelling dungeon is the first RANDOM dungeon of the day but not the first DUNGEON of the day, will he fail to get his daily dungeon AD? Are you saying he *MUST* run the random levelling dungeon *FIRST*, before a non-random dungeon, in order to get the bonus AD? His *first dungeon of the day* must be Random in order to get bonus AD? Or his *first random dungeon of the day* will grant bonus AD, regardless of how many non-random dungeons he runs before it?
As a player we naturally gravitate towards the most efficient path. Part of a designer's job in a live game is to make sure that the most efficient path is also the most enjoyable. There are obviously conflicts though when the most efficient path is altered, as we are forcing people to change their habits. Certain players may also be more than happy to have a most efficient path that involves doing the same thing over and over.
We don't specifically have it out for you! But in a world where everyone will naturally gravitate towards the most efficient path, it's nearly impossible to allow both variety and rote repetition to coexist meaningfully. Because we have moved the entire existing daily bonus's total value down to just the skirmish and dungeon, hopefully people can start to look at the epic dungeon random queue bonus as not something that is being withheld from them if they run an EToS, but something that is a bonus if they run a random epic dungeon having met all the requirements, and were willing to complete whatever came their way. Running EToS or Castle Never, etc. manually will still be a good way to advance your character's equipment, etc.
Obviously it's hard to think this way about the bonuses right now because everyone is used to the way they worked before. But that's why we are continually making adjustments. It's difficult with something like this to imagine how it will feel once it's become part of your normal play experience, or if you're introduce to the system as a first time player without having known the old system. We are aware that there is some concern that the best groups do not actually currently run 1 tank, 1 healer and 3 DPS. The current meta has evolved this way unintentionally due to the overwhelming power of buffs and debuffs, as opposed to being a distinct direction we were driving in.
This is part of the reason we are continually making adjustments to player powers. The design team is in discussions about what we would like to do long term in regards to how far off the meta is from the original design, but we don't plan to adjust the restrictions at least for launch of the feature. Loose restrictions will create more difficulties in the matchmaking algorithm and slow down the rate at which queues fire, so we'd like to avoid that for now, but we will absolutely monitor the situation.
You gave him a long answer on what he SHOULD do. Not what he WANTS to do. I'm curious about it as well.
EDIT: I would quote but this forum is just impossible at times.
To clarify: if you run EToS, you haven't prevented yourself from getting any sort of daily bonus, from either Random: Dungeon or Random: Epic Dungeon. You could run EToS 10 times manually then run both of those random queues and receive their daily bonuses.
The levelling dungeons, for a level 70 character, are NOT CONTENT. No actual play is required. I can join any of them, hit "t" for auto-walk, ignore all the monsters, aim my mouse to move around corners until I reach the first door, attack a few times to clear out all the enemies, open the door, and repeat. I one-shot every non-boss and 90% of bosses. No boss survives a full encounter rotation from ANY of my characters. If I go AFK my companion will eventually kill all the monsters for me, long before they kill me. On my DC if I select my Virtuous loadout I can just stand there forever and all the enemies will kill *themselves* by attacking me - my automatic self-heals triggering DR+SKT boons do more than enough damage to clear a levelling dungeon.
My experience is not unusual or exceptional. My toons are all 15K, but even fresh 70s have zero problem soloing Spellplague or Karrundax, let alone Cloak Tower or Pirate King.
The levelling dungeons are *not fun*. They are *not engaging*. They do *not require any skill or effort*. Because of this, with this change they are *all exactly the same*: A timer that you set between 5 and 25 minutes that pops out 7,000 AD when it expires.
I have no problem with wanting people to queue for more than just the same dungeons forever to get daily AD but I want to queue for A DUNGEON to get my AD, and with this change you are PUNISHING people for choosing to run content they have trouble with and REWARDING them for running non-content that even the lowest 70 could solo using at-wills only.
My problem really is *all* about the levelling dungeons being a thing you expect level 70 characters to have fun doing. They're not fun. They're not interesting. And the presence of level 70 characters means that non-70s can't find them fun or interesting either. But for a non-BIS character to ever get to the rewards for doing level 70 content, you're making it so they *must* run the uninteresting no-challenge levelling content
You think it sucks that nobody does normal Spellplague Caverns on a regular basis so that content is "wasted"? I agree, it does suck that nobody wants to do that dungeon, but it's *not interesting*. It's boring as heck. There's no challenge and the only reason any level 70 character will EVER stick their head into it is because you've inexplicably gated their progress towards EPIC dungeons behind running through normal Spellplague one-shotting everything.
@asterdahl could you possibly tier the AD rewards in such a way so that if you run multiples of a higher tier of random queue it counts for the lower tier. For example, if I ran 6 random queues for an epic dungeon, it does the following:
1) The first 2 times I random queue it gives me the reward for the epic dungeon.
2) The 3rd and 4th I random queue for an epic dungeon, it gives me the reward for a normal dungeon.
3) The 5th and 6th time I random queue for an epic dungeon, it gives me the reward for a skirmish.
And building on that, if you random queue for a dungeon 4 times, it also gives you the bonus for skirmishes. At the end of the day, I am perfectly willing to random queue epic dungeons multiple times, but I do not find much fun in queuing for content that I am significantly above the level bracket for and don't really want to feel like I am being forced to run through level 12 content for AD. Considering the epic dungeons are obviously harder than the dungeons/skirmishes, I don't see any reason why if you decide to random queue for them additional times it shouldn't give you the reward for random queuing for easier stuff.
How about allowing people who have not unlocked every T3 dungeon to queue for any epic dungeon they HAVE unlocked, to get the normal (not Epic) dungeon AD for the day? They would almost certainly have to be solo to make sure the list of available dungeons really is theirs *and only* theirs and to not allow anyone else to "piggyback" on the smaller dungeon list, but I can't see any reason at all an 8K L70 shouldn't be able to queue for "random between MC, VT, and ELOL" and get the same reward as if they'd queued for "random no-challenge sub-70 dungeon".
After the changes I will be "forced" (highest AD per time invested.. maybe) to run content that is obnoxiously easy, to the point of being able to afk and still kill everything in the dungeon that attacks me. You say I should be able to get more AD in the new system, but a new and extremely boring activity (leveling dungeons) has been added to the list of things I need to do in order to get it.
Is there any chance that the majority of the dungeon or epic dungeon bonus could be handed out on the first win of either queue type, instead of all on leveling dungeons. It doesn't make any sense to include the majority in the epics, since very few will be able to get it, and it doesn't make sense to include the majority in leveling dungeon,
since high geared players definitely don't want to run those. Is there any way that the bonus could simply be given for the first one of the two you complete?
Signature [WIP] - tyvm John
Anyway, back to the matter at hand, I don't believe you have answered the question that was actually asked.
To put it simply: Jane runs one manually queued eToS today. Does she receive 0 AD?
I do not care to hear that Jane is still eligible for daily bonuses, etc etc. I ONLY want to know how much AD Jane will receive if she runs that ONE manual eToS and logs off for the day.
It be nice to extend to a 'few' T2/T3 Epic Dungeons Chests or Epic Trials similar to IG or Tiamat.
Still I'll remain hopeful given how the new Bonus RP weekend will work we may see Refinement added to a few more area's or larger rewards during the bonus.
a rank 5 anda peridot are going to hold you personally responsible....(Loot adjusted for the removal of enchant drops from content.)
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You say this is a good change, but I see nothing good about this change. I also see it changing the game from a free to play to a pay to play in some instances.
- You are taking an amount of AD & Seals, that I cannot afford to loose while taking away the right to play with my friends. While it might not seem a lot of AD & Seals (it is a lot for Seals), every little bit I earn by running 2 dungeons & 2 skirmishes with my friends helps.
- Those of us in a guild and an alliance like to run dungeons & skirmishes with each other will no longer be able to. Every night, you can see people looking for other people to run them. We have fun and we get to know each other from this. By using a random generator you are forcing people who do not know each other to play together. I can definitely see people taking advantage of this like they do in the CTA events. "Oh, I'm not as high a gear score as the others so I'll just hang back and not do much, if anything." AND THEN if 1 or more of us decide to leave the dungeon, we are punished.
- If we do not want to complete an area, we are now being punished. I understand that it takes money to pay for developers and staff but you are now going to force people to purchase those area completion items. These items cost players $30.00. I do not have an extra $30.00 laying around. Would you please pay (send) me a completion token for SOMI?
People usually do not want to complete an area because they do not like the area. For instance, I do not like SOMI and have not since the beginning. I know a lot of people who do not like SOMI. I do not like the quests nor do I like the areas.So, if I am understanding your posts, because I have not opened up the dungeons for this area, I cannot get my full AD & Seals for the day?
I suggest that you leave the AD & the Seals as is in the dungeons and if people WANT to run random dungeons, then let them get an extra 1000 AD and 10 extra seals (or more for something to make it worth their time) for the first random run in each area and leave the rest of it alone.player are complaining about losing 2k ads here and there blah blah farm some extra heroic encounter and salvage or do 1 PVP stronghold weekly BOOM 4.5k ads a blood ruby a major influence voucher ... campaign currency to make keys ...those are rewards lol
cry me a river about some measly ad loss
I do have a couple of points/questions;
* The new anti-leaver penalty; is it being applied to all dungeons or just randoms?
* Do you still think the leaver penalty is a good idea? As a person who hardly ever leaves a run, I would rather someone who wants to leave can leave and the rest of us can get on with it, rather than have them troll the group or not join in to deliberately elicit a votekick.
* The only time I leave a group is if a player is being offensive in chat or trolling the group - this means I now have to stay and put up with it. Yes, I can block/report them, but do we really want to go that route?
* Will the vote require a majority (3/5) or a full vote (4/5)?
* Currently in levelling dungeons there is a 15 minute wait before you can votekick someone. As a run is usually completed in 5 minutes, it means players either quit or have to wait 10 mins at the door if someone is deliberately holding the group up. Can this be shortened to a more reasonable length?
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When we do 2 eToS, we get now both the salvage and the rAD bonus. In the new system I'm forced to the leveling dungeons, due the requirements and the chance to get stuck in some happy places.
So no salvage for the same run, and we gonna flood the lowbie dungeons, until I guess the scaling changed and then that will be 'nerfed' again.
At the risk of stating the bleedin' obvious... this rationale only applies if you land on the same dungeon and not one that takes far longer. Trust me when I say that I'm running two Kessels and two Dread quicker than one FBI/MSPC and one IG.
Mainly because when running the latter dungeons, I spend more time dying and getting back up than actually providing any genuine contribution to the process.
To correct your statement; its not half the time, it's half the number of runs. The two things are very different.
We'd already worked all that out.
How about this.
If you introduced another break at around the Castle Never point, you will allow players below 11k to play the dungeons aimed at them with the same relative reward structure as sub 70 characters. Otherwise you are just going to have LOTS of people playing basic dungeons. The sub 70s often doing dungeons too advanced, and plus 70s cake walking them. Which I suppose balances out a level 30 guy queuing for a L 54 dungeon, since thry prpbably won't catch up with the rest of their group till the message pops up that the rest of their group is waiting for them... always a high point of the gaming experience.
Otherwise, as new higher stacked end game content comes on line new players will find the gateway to random dungeons, and their rewards, ever more impossible to attain.
I am a little concerned about what they have in mind for scaling though - hopefully it won't go so far as to significantly increase time spent and even require a proper group mix (hard to do with 3 players lol)
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