We would like your feedback on if there are any queues which currently require an item level too low to be successfully completed.
Well, consider ToNG, for example - that's the dungeon I have mostly been running recently. I have had some really smooth runs, and a few that were not so smooth or even failed. The thing is, while a ToNG run could probably succeed with one or two people just above the minimum IL, a group with a very low average IL is probably doomed from the start.
Why should I want to risk wasting my time on such a run?
Also, for a smooth, fast run, you really want an optimized party - it does not have to be DODC,ACDC,OP,GF,DPS - some other combinations work just as well, but I would not want to run it with a "3 DPS, Tank, Healer" combo.
Why should I want to take the risk of that happening?
Random queues is something we've wanted to implement for a while to improve the play experience.
Improve?
Sorry, but the phrase "If it ain't broken don't fix it", comes to mind here. I utterly, utterly fail to see how this would "improve" the play experience in any way. In fact, as far as I am concerned, you are making my experience worse.
Here is the thing...I usually only queue for a random group for "easy" content - most of the skirmishes, Lostmauth, Kessel's and so on. For the harder content, I want a premade group - typically a guild/alliance one - otherwise the risk of me wasting my time is too high.
Why would I want to end up in a group that ended up struggling for two hours though MSP, only to get a single peridot from the final chest?
Sorry, not happening.
Now, if you had implemented the random queues on top of the existing system - left the current rewards in place, but added an extra reward for joining a random queue, that would have been fine - some people would probably have liked it.
As it is, you are encouraging me to play less. I will continue to run dungeons for specific rewards (ToNG for seals, eGWD for a chance of getting the Bloodstained shirt and so on), or to help out people in my guild/alliance, but that's it.
I will not solo queue for specific dungeons like Kessel's because with the removal of the AD bonus it is not worth my time, and I will not solo queue for a random dungeon because the chance of frustration is too high.
but yeah all these changes at once and they are all wildly unpopular changes that no one wants..
we don't like change. why wouldn't these things be rolled out nice and slow.. like this here. this shouldn't be until a half mod after your other changes (although 90 percent of us would rather you just didn't do the things you're doing) so everyone can see where we are at in being able to complete things still even in premades.
I seriously (and I'm not trying to be dramatic ) get the feeling that somehow cryptic is TRYING to fail here. it's wierd and surreal. I just keep going why? no really.. WHY...?
why you have to go out of your way and ruin the game, its fine as is it now for PVE, rather do something about the PVP!! If u think changing the skirmishes and dungs and epics are gonna solve your problem for botting ,then fine!! But did you even take into account how many players will leave the game, because of your selfish decission to change the income of the low level player. I have literally seen so many changes in Neverwinter, and this change by far pisses me off tbh!! I invested more than 500$ in the game, which now seems i should leave just because u keep decreasing the AD source day by day!! Please rethink of what you going to do!! Either help keep your Player who will in turn keep Your player base , or else people will do leave the game for another! I really Dont understand how You think that people will play afterall these changes. Rather than these changes You could have looked into the PVP matters, change gauntlgrym, But no u guys will changes something which doesnt even needs changing so that people invest more money!!
I seriously (and I'm not trying to be dramatic ) get the feeling that somehow cryptic is TRYING to fail here. it's wierd and surreal. I just keep going why? no really.. WHY...?
Me too. I actually find myself completely without motivation for logging in and doing my dailies. I sit there and say to myself; "why am I bothering..?"
Please Do Not Feed The Trolls
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
3
micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
See here's the thing. Some players avoid elol because they can't handle the jumps (disability, dexterity, whatever) some avoid Cragmire's as the boss there is disproportionately hard compared to other T2's and you need a decent group etc.
Forcing these players to queue into dungeons they don't like or can't handle is a very bad idea.
I used to play pvp in uncharted a lot. they had a system where they gave you a vote on map. as well as game type. something like that might work. a vote for which tier dungeon if everyone is capable of all three and then a vote on a couple random dungeons. if some communication is allowed in the que before such a vote if someone can't run something it could be avoided.
In ranked SC2, you can ban 3 maps (iirc) from the map pool, so you don't get the nastiest thing for you. There it's easier because it's 1vs1. But still a vote system on 2 bans, can solve this. Regardless of all of this other 'things' and AD nerf.
Additionally, with refinement adjustments coming soon as well as the ease of acquiring new equipment both with Module 12's updates to seals, and new ways to obtain seals with random queues in Module 12B, raising your item level has never been easier.
Are you going to let the random queues work only off item level and not the campaign unlocks? Otherwise this doesnt work.
My wife and I are casual gamers and we enjoy the dungeons but we dont have time to unlock everything in the campaigns and participate in the item level (AD costs) and dungeon chase (AD source) at the same time. We choose item level cause everyone likes to feel powerful.
If the campaign unlock requirements were removed for random queue that could be fun cause it would let us play dungeons we are geared for but could not play otherwise. That would be an incentive to enter random queus and would be alt friendly. It would allow us to see dungeons we might enjoy and inspire us to pursue campaign unlock for those new favorites.
If the campaign unlocks are still required in random queues, we are reduced to baby dungeons or our wallet only for our item level growth and that will pretty much be the nail in the coffin. We would be more likely to consider this an expensive lesson learned and stop spending money with this game. This is our first MMO and we found we like them, we may just move to a paid one that isnt so hostile to its casual and newbie player base. If you keep pushing for the hardcore only that is all you will have and soon even they will be gone cause they dont have anyone to e-peen at.
Maybe I’m reading this wrong but these changes come across that as the game developer feels they must now control exactly how a player must play the game?
It’s a game, we are supposed to have content that is meant to provide options and choices to do as we wish for a reward we want to play for. Play what we want, when we want and how we want to play and it’s done for fun. If we can’t do this, why play?
We should not be forced into random content that is not what we would choose to play especially if the queue presents a serious risk of matching players that cannot complete content or will take a significantly longer time to do so.
Then there is a penalty if you leave because the content can’t be completed. This has failed miserably in other games that have tried to implement queue penalties. Adding a penalty is another thing that could break and have serious ramifications on users - certainly my experience in another game.
Surely there are other solutions to get people to run content like ECC or EGWD rather than forcing people into the content as the only means to get AD and seals?
I run ETOS when I like because I like it. It provides a good challenge, it’s within the capabilities of most groups and the rewards are worth the time spent. This is not the case with ECC or EGWD and others; more so when matched with random players who may have the IL but not the boons or knowledge of how to play their character effectively.
The reasons people don’t run ECC and EGWD will just not be resolved by forcing people into the content via a queue because it’s the only way to get AD and seals. I would hazard a guess and say that the reasons for not running ECC and EGWD will only increase after the changes to Bondings too and most likely these changes will further impact the completion rate of the content by a random group.
Add to this, the amount of time available to play varies. Sometimes people want to jump on for 15-20 minutes and in that time (now) could run a couple of skirmishes or dungeons for rewards. With the proposed changes, they may only get into one and might not be able to complete it so no reward and time wasted.
As a player, I wish to choose the content I play and when to play it. If I get ‘burnout from running the same queue ad nauseum’ I personally choose to run other content that I want to play. This is something I can already well manage myslf, I do not need this to be forced upon me and have my choice of how I play removed or be penalized.
I have already created and run content on in demand support roles. Changes to queues are simply not the answer to “Incentivize playing roles that are currently underplayed”.
If these roles are underplayed, there are other reasons that really need to be looked at first. People creating new characters to try and fill this criteria will be lower IL, lacking boons and learning the role thereby adding to the risk of weak group matching and again penalties to players being able to play what they want, when and in the time available to them.
Even in the game queue today, there are instances where randomly selected tanks are unable to complete Shores of Tuern. Either the whole group fails or the tank leaves/gets voted out. This situation will simply not be resolved by the changes proposed here and will only become worse and will negatively impact more players.
I myself am new to the role of tank and learning to play. I am confident in ETOS but I simply would not consider myself ready to try ECC, EGWD or some other content right now so why should I face the risk of being forced into this content by the new queue system and failing. It's not a good way to learn.
I also don’t understand the “Incentivize helping players who are new to a queue to foster a positive environment”. I’ve yet to encounter anyone in a random group who hasn’t already muted themselves or needs to be muted because they have background noise.
How are you going to prevent the new player being voted from the group because they don’t know the content? Whilst someone has not been identified specifically, you are calling out that there is someone who doesn’t know the content so it wouldn’t be too hard to identify them.
Nobody I’ve ever met in a random queue has been interested in trying to “foster a positive environment”; they want to complete the content, get their AD, salvage and leave.
Changes to queues are not the answer to “foster a positive environment”. This is the role of a guild, not a random queue. If a player needs help and a positive environment, they should not be looking for a brief encounter in a random queue.
I am not against change but please seriously reconsider forcing these changes upon how people choose to play the game. The combination of these changes and the proposed Bonding changes could well see a mass exodus from the game so the queues could be empty.
I know that there are many players are thinking of things in terms of loss of efficiency right now. Many of you have gotten over the idea that you'll run Temple of the Spider twice a day for eternity. It's not the case that everyone who runs Temple of the Spider passionately loves that dungeon though. Keep in mind that for every player who had accepted that fate, there's another who upon learning that running Temple of the Spider twice a day for eternity was needed to max out their AD, said "no thank you" and stopped playing.
It's not the case that we are being cynical here, we honestly believe that running the same exact content over and over when there are lots more options is, well, not great. We can't blame those players who quit because of that. We play as well and we'd like to mix it up and play more content. We understand that for those of you who tolerated running the same content over and over for efficiency are feeling a bit of a sting by having some of that freedom removed.
Please consider why the majority of players runs the same dungeon over and over: it's because the rewards from dungeons are simply bad (MSP anyone?). You should know that, because the players have said it so many times. What happened is, the players have adapted to this bad system and try to get the most out of it: AD and salvage in the least amount of time. This is the only thing we can do and, moreover something that YOU have designed.
The random queue will not make this system better, but even worse. More options you say? In my opinion it's less AD gained, more time spent and more unfriendly for alts and less geared players. Please give us other incentives to run the other dungeons! This is not the right way.
Additionally, with refinement adjustments coming soon as well as the ease of acquiring new equipment both with Module 12's updates to seals, and new ways to obtain seals with random queues in Module 12B, raising your item level has never been easier.
Seals of the Protector? To restore the armor, we need to farm Voninblood. More grinding to get what? The ability to random queue for salvage loot. I don't think this sounds rewarding or a lot of fun.
Question: Is it possible to queue for random epic dungeons if a player has not all of them unlocked?
Do we get to choose our role or is that a function of class assignment? A lot of people don't understand this, but not all GFs/Prot OPs are tanks (e.g., Conq GFs) and not all DCs/Devo OPs are heals (no, loadouts doesn't change this). What if a player is actually support (buffer/debuffer - there are GF and DC specs for this) rather than tank/heals? Can we change the roles to Tank/DPS/Support/Heals and then allow people to choose which roles they want to fill rather than what class they are? Nothing is worse than getting into a public queue only to find out that your "tank" isn't actually a tank or that your "healer" has no heals slotted and won't change. What if I want to run a dungeon (like Cloak Tower) solo? Under the change, it sounds like no rewards will be given in that case. If that's your goal, I'm certain a lot more people need to be made aware of this change or you are going to have an eruption of complaints. What if I want a particular reward from a dungeon (like an item transmute that only drops from the end boss/chest)? Under this system, I may run for weeks before the RNG Dungeon assigner actually puts me where I want to be. RNG is not always kind. What if my Stronghold daily is for a particular dungeon or I need to do an Influence Dungeon run as part of the Temple assignment? Under this system, I essentially have to choose between rewards and use of my time. Why can't I have both like under the current system? Overall, I don't understand why you are changing the system or are not implementing as a supplement rather than a replacement for the current system. You're penalizing players who want to group with their friends regardless who may happen to all be "tanks". You're also penalizing folks teaching others of the same class how to play their class. You obviously have given a lot of thought to this, but you're fixing a non-existent problem caused by someone complaining because they didn't get picked for a group. That happens in life and is not a function of the queue system. I really liked the model of play established in Chult where I can play on my schedule using my approach. This design concept for queues moves dramatically away from that and you are depriving players of choice. That is a bad model for development. I have really been baffled by a lot of the recent proposed changes. I'm not sure what is prompting them, but if the approach continues, I'm not sure I can continue to support this product. I am glad that you are accepting feedback and hope that you will listen to the concerns that the majority of players support.
I know that there are many players are thinking of things in terms of loss of efficiency right now. Many of you have gotten over the idea that you'll run Temple of the Spider twice a day for eternity. It's not the case that everyone who runs Temple of the Spider passionately loves that dungeon though. Keep in mind that for every player who had accepted that fate, there's another who upon learning that running Temple of the Spider twice a day for eternity was needed to max out their AD, said "no thank you" and stopped playing.
It's not the case that we are being cynical here, we honestly believe that running the same exact content over and over when there are lots more options is, well, not great. We can't blame those players who quit because of that. We play as well and we'd like to mix it up and play more content. We understand that for those of you who tolerated running the same content over and over for efficiency are feeling a bit of a sting by having some of that freedom removed.
Please consider why the majority of players runs the same dungeon over and over: it's because the rewards from dungeons are simply bad (MSP anyone?). You should know that, because the players have said it so many times. What happened is, the players have adapted to this bad system and try to get the most out of it: AD and salvage in the least amount of time. This is the only thing we can do and, moreover something that you have designed.
The random queue will not make this system better, but even worse. More options you say? In my opinion it's less AD gained, more time spent and more unfriendly for alts and less geared players. Please give us other incentives to run the other dungeons! This is not the right way.
Additionally, with refinement adjustments coming soon as well as the ease of acquiring new equipment both with Module 12's updates to seals, and new ways to obtain seals with random queues in Module 12B, raising your item level has never been easier.
Seals of the Protector? To restore the armor, we need to farm Voninblood. More grinding to get what? The ability to random queue for salvage loot. I don't think this sounds rewarding or a lot of fun.
Additionally, if there are any other requirements for queues such as campaign completion, you must meet those requirements as well. Simply put, you must be eligible for every queue in a random queue’s full list before you can queue.
Even more unfriendly for lower geared/casual players or alts. We have to unlock MSP in order to queue for Malabog's Castle. Makes no sense to me. Basically, you are forcing us to play a certain way and certain content instead of giving us new options.
Post edited by thavi2013 on
4
adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
k I missed the bit about having to have everything unlocked... so unless you have everything unlocked you don't get the bonus cash for decent dungeons that reward good stuff. why. that's sillytoes. you are forcing people who are at least capable of t1 to waste time running something with no good rewards. how is that gonna be a popular decision?
Well, from the overall feedback, it is clearly not popular. It is not quite in the same category as the original version of the bonding nerf - I don't see the same number of people threatening to leave, but I don't see anyone defending this or saying "This is a really good idea - I love it"
Now, here is what they would need to do to make this work:
Have separate random queues for the T1, T2 and T3 dungeons. The people that really need the bonus AD are those leveling up or gearing up, and denying them this income until they have reached IL 11000 is just monumentally stupid.
Better yet, keep the current bonus rewards in place, but add extra rewards for going through the random queue system.
If farming of "easy" dungeons is an issue, change the bonus AD rewards so you get less rewards for "easy" content (like a L70 running Cloak Tower) and more for "hard" content (that same L70 running mSP or ToNG).
I'll make this extremely simple. A lot of us, don't like being restricted when new content arrives. So why are you so insistent on locking every new dungeon or trial behind a campaign? It is truly such a boring way of adding new stuff. We had to grind at least 30 days to FBI, why? The last two Mods have provided us with lackluster boons, which is a mitigating factor campaign completion. If we're trying to make quality-of-life improvements, as long as we have the IL we should be allowed in any dungeon.
Okay so previously... lets assume I am a 10k item level PvE only player.
I used to be able to queue for: Skirmish 2250x2 Dungeon 4500x2 =13500 AD
I queue for Shores of Tuern, and open both chests for both skirmish bonus I queue for Castle Never for one dungeon bonus I then queue for Malabog's Castle for my last dungeon bonus I am now done with bonus AD for the day
After the changes: Skirmish 3000 Dungeon 4000 = 7000
I random queue for Skirmish and it drops me into Illusionist's Gambit for the one skirmish bonus I then must random queue for a low level dungeon random queue and it puts me into Caverns of Karrundax I am now done with bonus AD for the day. I no longer have an AD incentive to play dungeons of my item level any number of times per day, since the daily bonuses were part of the compensation for not getting anything in the end chests.
I must also repeat the low level dungeons as my daily bonus until I am 11k item level and can queue for real dungeons again. I understand that I can still queue for them normally, but I will no longer get the daily bonus.
Yes, the system gives more AD No, the system completely destroys the ability for low item level players to gain AD Yes, the system will probably take less time But why are we being "forced" to run low level dungeons until we reach 11k item level? I like the idea (a lot actually, I am super excited to try this), but I feel like this part is an issue, and I am not sure there is any nice way to fix it without separating dungeons into tiers.
EDIT thanks for the correction @hellfire427#4803 you are right. Sleep is important or something maybe.
Even once you can queue for epic dungeons (11k IL + all the SKT stuff) you only get :
Skirmish 3000 Dungeon 4000 Epic dungeon 5000 = 12000 RAD
So 1500 RAD less than before. And that's if you risk queuing for a random epic dungeon with a high chance of ending up in FBI or MSP with a group that will struggle for 1 hour and give up before the end.
On top of that I would expect PVE people to start queuing for the random PVP to get the daily RAD they can't get elsewhere which will most likely end up upsetting PVP'ers more than anything else, and for good reasons.
You guys are being intentionally vague on whether or not we will get bonus AD if we just run what we want to run. Do you LIKE being dictators of what we can and can't do? I have been in dungeons in which we were all legitimate leveled, and all the correct roles and we could not finish and had to call someone to help or abandon. So don't stand there with your holier than thou, we are so great at this game and you're dumb if you can't finish simple dungeons attitudes and try to make me have fun on your terms.
What if I want to run simple dungeons to get simple AD so I can buy fashion items. I spend REAL money on this game too, just because I'm not some die hard play hard until I get end game content person.
You need to rethink your attitudes.
If you want to make this an addition then fine, or another daily bonus then fine, but don't make me play frickin Castle Never if all I wanna do is play a fast dungeon. I took some people in Castle Never the other day and we could all go, but we could NOT finish it after more than an hour. I don't want to stay in a dungeon an hour, EVER if it's too hard for me to finish at the end. That's ridiculous. It's a ridiculously hard dungeon for most new 8500 IL's anyways, that's a ludicrous IL req in the first place.
You know you can love this game and not be good at it, you guys are so elitist. Makes me sick.
And another thing, I have epilepsy, and Sharandar and SKT both messed with my head, so sometimes people have legit reasons for not wanting to finish certain content. Do you care? No, all you care about is yourself. This bothers me SO much more than the bonding fiasco over there. I have played this game a long time, because I love DnD and I loved the original NWN games. But you guys are really pushing my buttons right now.
And, I don't want to have to complete SKT. At all, at any time on any of my characters. I don't like the environment and simply don't want to go there. So now, in your new system, i cannot get any bonus AD from epic dungeons? How is that helping me?
The road to hell is paved with good intentions. I can see the good intentions and I can see the road to hell.
Initially I thought this would be good for players in the range 13-69 who want to run dungeons that aren't CT. Yes they may get more players running those dungeons, but that will be with sub 12K ilevel 70s who haven't opened FBI or don't want to run FBI, MSP etc. So all they will see is the backside of those players charging off hopefully one-shotting everything on the way past. The bots will just have to run longer dungeons.
I thought it might be good for me on my main. I have everything open but don't run FBI/MSP/SVA partly partly because I'd struggle to get a group but also because my play schedule isn't really compatible with 45min ++++ runs. I wouldn't want to be the reason runs fail. It also took a year to get FBI open. I'm slow. Maybe. So I won't be using the random queue even though I often tick a bunch of boxes on the current system and see where it takes me.
I can't see the reasons for BiS players to join in. They are usually focussed on efficiency and that will be delivered by max salvage per minute. So they will run eToS and eSoT more not less because they will need to.
New 70s, for that brief period between end EE and opening FBI. They will have their income slashed.
The last group are the ones who will suffer most. Gearing will be faster for very early stage 70s because they will get seals more easily and start accumulating them before 70. Although unless I misunderstand they will be getting them faster than they can use them, especially since you removed armour from the seal store.
2
littlephscyoMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1Arc User
This is one of the most stupid things you guys have come up with. I don't like the skirmishes and usually don't run them but this would force me to run them. Not only that but I wouldn't get to pick my teammates. I play this game to run the content with my FRIENDS and GUILDMATES not random pugs. I kind of feel like I'm being treated like a child, now eat your vegetables or you don't get your dessert sort of thing going on with this idea. And to take away AD gain from picking what dungeons I want to run...seriously!! And the punishment for leaving if the group that you forced us into fails now that is way to much. You really need to rethink this. Keep the AD gain in private ques, get rid of the punishment for leaving. The random que for stuff fine keep it some people may like that but don't screw over those that don't want to use it.
So you're telling me that... the MOST requested classes (support - heals, buffs and tanks) get MORE AD? Even though they're the classes that have the LEAST issues getting into a run and doing stuff, because of how requested they are? And with the massive DPS nerf with bondings (what makes TRs borderline useless, RIP my TR), no one will EVER want any NEW players to join because they'd be useless so this just promotes giving top tier players with a lot of AD even more AD. Goooooooooood. Well, aside the fact that I'll probably stop playing, I wasted 2000 hours on the game and suddenly, the devs decide to make us line up and bend over. This IS NOT OKAY. This is NOT good game development. This is anti-consumer at its finest. Oh well. I guess I like the changes, I can finally stop playing the game and start working on real life stuff. Thanks, Cryptic.
If it is a problem that people aren't running certain content, consider that the issue is in the content and not in the people.
Give us reasons to want to run the various content and we will do so. I join ETOS farms when I can, running multiple chars through it because it gives a good return on my time. No, it isn't fun but the rewards aren't there to do the other content that way. Fix that and I'll run other content. Don't just decide that I'm Doing It Wrong and try to force me to play the game some other way. Don't tell the players that you have to do a public random queue with 1 Approved Healer class and 1 Approved Tank class and 3 Approved DPS classes or they get nothing but salvage.
This idea is fine as an addition to the current system but as a replacement it is abysmal. There is no way I want to just queue into something (even with 4 friends) and not know if I might end up in Valindra's Tower or Master Spellplague. That is insane.
"We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
This change takes away player agency and further discourages casual players like me from spending my limited time (and money) on this game. The RNG is bad enough, but taking away my ability to strategize my time, aim for specific dungeons/drops without hamstringing my ability to get RAD from dungeon runs will make this game feel like a vicious and joyless slot machine: if I wanted that, I would go to Vegas. I had regained some hope after the devs pulled back from the disastrous and tone deaf proposed change to bonding runestones, but now it seems clear that they are completely out of touch with players and their desires. It's too bad, because I had grown quite fond of this game.
Hell NO! I dont pug (too many bad experiences). I run with Guildmates or known players, as a guild we will carry our leveling guys through content. But forced to go into a random Dungeon with a group of four players who may be barely leveled to get in? No way Jose, I will quit and take the leaver penalty and spend the down time running dragons in the guild, or doing masterworks or trading on the AH.
If you implement this in this form it will be the greatest self inflicted wound since mod 6.
Well AD is one thing - but my main concern is maintaining the number of keys to open the end chests for all the variable dungeons/skirmishes that you could potentially randomly get.
This is yet another massive blow to those still levelling up their Strongholds (Campaign currencies used for Keys rather than coffer) - being part of a Stronghold for me is about fostering good relationships in game not running with some random group to spend excess amount of time in a dungeon to realise that as a group we cannot complete it, to randomly queue again and again til on the off chance a well balanced group if formed.
As a guild there are virtually no guild/alliance content that give any decent rewards - Marauders (was looking promising) but the voucher drops are so low that its not worthwhile doing more than 5 rounds - and its not even included in x2 Influence.....Really.
Dragonflight, better for voucher drops, seals - the equipment obsolete - so fangs for some unique dyes and no influence - except a rare chance at a chest.
I always look forward to the second part of the Mod updates as usually gives value to the gameplay - this essentially is a slap in the face.
So in essence what you are proposing is more time running content with random strangers and less/no time running with friends and Guild members which is why most people play the game.
hell HAMSTER no what the HAMSTER are you idiots doing to the game?! its bad enough you guys had to screw people with the bondings now dungeons too? how in the hell is anyone supposed to farm ad's then, not only that if its mandated you have all epic dungeons unlocked to que them then the new players who are having a hard time unlocking will never see an epic dungeon, bad HAMSTER idea
> @mahburg said: > Hell NO! I dont pug (too many bad experiences). I run with Guildmates or known players, as a guild we will carry our leveling guys through content. But forced to go into a random Dungeon with a group of four players who may be barely leveled to get in? > No way Jose, I will quit and take the leaver penalty and spend the down time running dragons in the guild, or doing masterworks or trading on the AH. > > If you implement this in this form it will be the greatest self inflicted wound since mod 6.
The sum of all proposed changes is a much much larger hamster than mod 6 and coal gate combined
> Hell NO! I dont pug (too many bad experiences). I run with Guildmates or known players, as a guild we will carry our leveling guys through content. But forced to go into a random Dungeon with a group of four players who may be barely leveled to get in?
> No way Jose, I will quit and take the leaver penalty and spend the down time running dragons in the guild, or doing masterworks or trading on the AH.
>
> If you implement this in this form it will be the greatest self inflicted wound since mod 6.
The sum of all proposed changes is a much much larger hamster than mod 6 and coal gate combined
^^^^^ yeah that^^^^^ If anyone wants a taste of how this will pan out just try SVA and MSVA normal Sva ends up being tougher than MSVA oddly because of group composition, you melt your way through MSVA and yet can struggle in SVA. Now imagine that you get the SVA group composition forced on you due to the system .
Yesterday I experienced a possible example of this in an MSVA queue, we had a geared group sadly the host got sandbagged by a DC who was not qualified to run MSVA so to try and be fair to that person (assuming it was an error), he opted for SVA, two minutes in half the group bailed and the cleric who caused the problem died once and stood at the door for the remainder of the run (well up until the remaining four decided to wipe).
This will be the future reality we could all face if this idiocy goes ahead!
Ensure all queues are firing in a reasonable time frame, regardless of popularity.
** There are a reason much of the content is not run - getting keys for many of the dungeons/skirmishes is overtly time-consuming for one - a kessels key takes so many resources to make, the gold cresents for a Malabogs key needs 20 x Gold cresents - you can't even get these from running all the daily content - so needs to be augmented with Fomorian concoctionand/or running MotH. There are various reasons for the lack of popularity - address these issues.**
Reduce burnout from running the same queue ad nauseum by introducing variety. ** It would be self-inflicted nauseum - the players CHOOSE what they currently run - you do not CURRENTLY force them.**
Make it clear when you are eligible for and when you receive daily bonus AD and seals. ** For new players this may be the case - is this simply lack of in-game guidance - simple fix be more clear with the current model.**
Provide further bonuses for those players who can master the most difficult content. ** End-game difficult content already has an added benefit - masterwork drops etc. Increase the rewards for this content if need be but don't penalise those who cannot compete to struggle with content they DO NOT want to do or just simply CANT.
Incentivize playing roles that are currently underplayed to reduce queue wait times. ** I play nearly all classes and some I find enjoyable - some I don't - not only are you telling us WHAT to Run, you are now telling us WHAT class we should run. The only incentive to run a particular class is if YOU ENJOY it.**
Incentivize helping players who are new to a queue to foster a positive environment. ** Fostering a positive environment with strangers in one run with a random group of people who you are more likely never to see again - this is clearly not a great way to achieve this goal in my humble opinion.**
From what I understood some dungeons and skirmishes are discouraged for people with the Aboleth set to run, because the bug from that set can seriously hamper the team in some situations (eSoT boss?), so if they get into that kind of dungeon do they leave and get leaver's penalty or just tag along and try not to hit the boss so other players won't yell at them?
What if you need to run that one skirmish over and over and over again because it is required if you want to progress in your boons (looking at you, mythical Dwarven Spelunking) and now you won't even get any AD for it?
I am not liking this change, it feel like it rewards the high-end characters that can clear any content and severly punishes the lower end toons.
That said, the "ooh, I wonder where I'll end up" factor might be somewhat appealing if it were a bonus on the existing system and not a replacement.
Does the New Player bonus take into account the "new old" dungeons, for example if I ran eTOS or CN before the rework but haven't ran it after, do I qualify for the new player bonus?
And what about keys, now you have to craft every possible key because you might end up in a dungeon and get nothing otherwise. A possible incentive could be that you get to open the chest without a key if you enter the dungeon by random queue?
2
jumpingmorksMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 876Arc User
There are many players who have just an hour or so to log in each day. I don't know if this is yet another attempt to hurt botters or an honest attempt to get players to play content they are not currently playing.
If players are not playing certain dungeons, there is a reason for it. MSP's reputation for long runs and giving a single rank 5 is just an example.
Give people a good reason to run those dungeons and players will run them, force them to run content and you are going to have some unhappy players.
Personally, I'll just farm eToS for salvage. I pug plenty, everythng up to CN, am not pugging FBI or MSP.
Your changes will not make me run FBI, MSP, as far as I am concerned, your attempt to force me to play those with a random team has failed already.
As I mentioned earlier am not spending 2 hours with a loud mouthed 12 yr old who thinks he knows it all. I don;t like FBI very much, depsite the terrible rewards I actually prefer MSP over it, I like running it with friends, but I usually don;t because most don;t like running it.
I understand your money, resources and staff are limited, you would be better off focusing on somethng we want rather than what you want.
4
jumpingmorksMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 876Arc User
Well AD is one thing - but my main concern is maintaining the number of keys to open the end chests for all the variable dungeons/skirmishes that you could potentially randomly get.
This is yet another massive blow to those still levelling up their Strongholds (Campaign currencies used for Keys rather than coffer) - being part of a Stronghold for me is about fostering good relationships in game not running with some random group to spend excess amount of time in a dungeon to realise that as a group we cannot complete it, to randomly queue again and again til on the off chance a well balanced group if formed.
As a guild there are virtually no guild/alliance content that give any decent rewards - Marauders (was looking promising) but the voucher drops are so low that its not worthwhile doing more than 5 rounds - and its not even included in x2 Influence.....Really.
Dragonflight, better for voucher drops, seals - the equipment obsolete - so fangs for some unique dyes and no influence - except a rare chance at a chest.
I always look forward to the second part of the Mod updates as usually gives value to the gameplay - this essentially is a slap in the face.
So in essence what you are proposing is more time running content with random strangers and less/no time running with friends and Guild members which is why most people play the game.
I like this point. I actually spend time making keys, when I have an MC key, Temple Tier 4 Quest and the MC SH Cleric Quest, I pug MC.
Crafting keys is a pain in the rear, I do it for 2 characters only, both can pug anything, am not wasting my keys and time, without maximising my return on the time spent crafting them.
Comments
Why should I want to risk wasting my time on such a run?
Also, for a smooth, fast run, you really want an optimized party - it does not have to be DODC,ACDC,OP,GF,DPS - some other combinations work just as well, but I would not want to run it with a "3 DPS, Tank, Healer" combo.
Why should I want to take the risk of that happening? Improve?
Sorry, but the phrase "If it ain't broken don't fix it", comes to mind here. I utterly, utterly fail to see how this would "improve" the play experience in any way. In fact, as far as I am concerned, you are making my experience worse.
Here is the thing...I usually only queue for a random group for "easy" content - most of the skirmishes, Lostmauth, Kessel's and so on. For the harder content, I want a premade group - typically a guild/alliance one - otherwise the risk of me wasting my time is too high.
Why would I want to end up in a group that ended up struggling for two hours though MSP, only to get a single peridot from the final chest?
Sorry, not happening.
Now, if you had implemented the random queues on top of the existing system - left the current rewards in place, but added an extra reward for joining a random queue, that would have been fine - some people would probably have liked it.
As it is, you are encouraging me to play less. I will continue to run dungeons for specific rewards (ToNG for seals, eGWD for a chance of getting the Bloodstained shirt and so on), or to help out people in my guild/alliance, but that's it.
I will not solo queue for specific dungeons like Kessel's because with the removal of the AD bonus it is not worth my time, and I will not solo queue for a random dungeon because the chance of frustration is too high.
Why do you want me to play less?
we don't like change. why wouldn't these things be rolled out nice and slow.. like this here. this shouldn't be until a half mod after your other changes (although 90 percent of us would rather you just didn't do the things you're doing) so everyone can see where we are at in being able to complete things still even in premades.
I seriously (and I'm not trying to be dramatic ) get the feeling that somehow cryptic is TRYING to fail here. it's wierd and surreal. I just keep going why? no really.. WHY...?
If u think changing the skirmishes and dungs and epics are gonna solve your problem for botting ,then fine!! But did you even take into account how many players will leave the game, because of your selfish decission to change the income of the low level player. I have literally seen so many changes in Neverwinter, and this change by far pisses me off tbh!! I invested more than 500$ in the game, which now seems i should leave just because u keep decreasing the AD source day by day!! Please rethink of what you going to do!! Either help keep your Player who will in turn keep Your player base , or else people will do leave the game for another! I really Dont understand how You think that people will play afterall these changes. Rather than these changes You could have looked into the PVP matters, change gauntlgrym, But no u guys will changes something which doesnt even needs changing so that people invest more money!!
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
My wife and I are casual gamers and we enjoy the dungeons but we dont have time to unlock everything in the campaigns and participate in the item level (AD costs) and dungeon chase (AD source) at the same time. We choose item level cause everyone likes to feel powerful.
If the campaign unlock requirements were removed for random queue that could be fun cause it would let us play dungeons we are geared for but could not play otherwise. That would be an incentive to enter random queus and would be alt friendly. It would allow us to see dungeons we might enjoy and inspire us to pursue campaign unlock for those new favorites.
If the campaign unlocks are still required in random queues, we are reduced to baby dungeons or our wallet only for our item level growth and that will pretty much be the nail in the coffin. We would be more likely to consider this an expensive lesson learned and stop spending money with this game. This is our first MMO and we found we like them, we may just move to a paid one that isnt so hostile to its casual and newbie player base. If you keep pushing for the hardcore only that is all you will have and soon even they will be gone cause they dont have anyone to e-peen at.
It’s a game, we are supposed to have content that is meant to provide options and choices to do as we wish for a reward we want to play for. Play what we want, when we want and how we want to play and it’s done for fun. If we can’t do this, why play?
We should not be forced into random content that is not what we would choose to play especially if the queue presents a serious risk of matching players that cannot complete content or will take a significantly longer time to do so.
Then there is a penalty if you leave because the content can’t be completed. This has failed miserably in other games that have tried to implement queue penalties. Adding a penalty is another thing that could break and have serious ramifications on users - certainly my experience in another game.
Surely there are other solutions to get people to run content like ECC or EGWD rather than forcing people into the content as the only means to get AD and seals?
I run ETOS when I like because I like it. It provides a good challenge, it’s within the capabilities of most groups and the rewards are worth the time spent. This is not the case with ECC or EGWD and others; more so when matched with random players who may have the IL but not the boons or knowledge of how to play their character effectively.
The reasons people don’t run ECC and EGWD will just not be resolved by forcing people into the content via a queue because it’s the only way to get AD and seals. I would hazard a guess and say that the reasons for not running ECC and EGWD will only increase after the changes to Bondings too and most likely these changes will further impact the completion rate of the content by a random group.
Add to this, the amount of time available to play varies. Sometimes people want to jump on for 15-20 minutes and in that time (now) could run a couple of skirmishes or dungeons for rewards. With the proposed changes, they may only get into one and might not be able to complete it so no reward and time wasted.
As a player, I wish to choose the content I play and when to play it. If I get ‘burnout from running the same queue ad nauseum’ I personally choose to run other content that I want to play. This is something I can already well manage myslf, I do not need this to be forced upon me and have my choice of how I play removed or be penalized.
I have already created and run content on in demand support roles. Changes to queues are simply not the answer to “Incentivize playing roles that are currently underplayed”.
If these roles are underplayed, there are other reasons that really need to be looked at first. People creating new characters to try and fill this criteria will be lower IL, lacking boons and learning the role thereby adding to the risk of weak group matching and again penalties to players being able to play what they want, when and in the time available to them.
Even in the game queue today, there are instances where randomly selected tanks are unable to complete Shores of Tuern. Either the whole group fails or the tank leaves/gets voted out. This situation will simply not be resolved by the changes proposed here and will only become worse and will negatively impact more players.
I myself am new to the role of tank and learning to play. I am confident in ETOS but I simply would not consider myself ready to try ECC, EGWD or some other content right now so why should I face the risk of being forced into this content by the new queue system and failing. It's not a good way to learn.
I also don’t understand the “Incentivize helping players who are new to a queue to foster a positive environment”. I’ve yet to encounter anyone in a random group who hasn’t already muted themselves or needs to be muted because they have background noise.
How are you going to prevent the new player being voted from the group because they don’t know the content? Whilst someone has not been identified specifically, you are calling out that there is someone who doesn’t know the content so it wouldn’t be too hard to identify them.
Nobody I’ve ever met in a random queue has been interested in trying to “foster a positive environment”; they want to complete the content, get their AD, salvage and leave.
Changes to queues are not the answer to “foster a positive environment”. This is the role of a guild, not a random queue. If a player needs help and a positive environment, they should not be looking for a brief encounter in a random queue.
I am not against change but please seriously reconsider forcing these changes upon how people choose to play the game. The combination of these changes and the proposed Bonding changes could well see a mass exodus from the game so the queues could be empty.
The random queue will not make this system better, but even worse. More options you say? In my opinion it's less AD gained, more time spent and more unfriendly for alts and less geared players. Please give us other incentives to run the other dungeons! This is not the right way.
Seals of the Protector? To restore the armor, we need to farm Voninblood. More grinding to get what? The ability to random queue for salvage loot. I don't think this sounds rewarding or a lot of fun.
Question: Is it possible to queue for random epic dungeons if a player has not all of them unlocked?
A lot of people don't understand this, but not all GFs/Prot OPs are tanks (e.g., Conq GFs) and not all DCs/Devo OPs are heals (no, loadouts doesn't change this).
What if a player is actually support (buffer/debuffer - there are GF and DC specs for this) rather than tank/heals?
Can we change the roles to Tank/DPS/Support/Heals and then allow people to choose which roles they want to fill rather than what class they are?
Nothing is worse than getting into a public queue only to find out that your "tank" isn't actually a tank or that your "healer" has no heals slotted and won't change.
What if I want to run a dungeon (like Cloak Tower) solo? Under the change, it sounds like no rewards will be given in that case. If that's your goal, I'm certain a lot more people need to be made aware of this change or you are going to have an eruption of complaints.
What if I want a particular reward from a dungeon (like an item transmute that only drops from the end boss/chest)? Under this system, I may run for weeks before the RNG Dungeon assigner actually puts me where I want to be. RNG is not always kind.
What if my Stronghold daily is for a particular dungeon or I need to do an Influence Dungeon run as part of the Temple assignment? Under this system, I essentially have to choose between rewards and use of my time. Why can't I have both like under the current system?
Overall, I don't understand why you are changing the system or are not implementing as a supplement rather than a replacement for the current system. You're penalizing players who want to group with their friends regardless who may happen to all be "tanks". You're also penalizing folks teaching others of the same class how to play their class.
You obviously have given a lot of thought to this, but you're fixing a non-existent problem caused by someone complaining because they didn't get picked for a group. That happens in life and is not a function of the queue system.
I really liked the model of play established in Chult where I can play on my schedule using my approach. This design concept for queues moves dramatically away from that and you are depriving players of choice. That is a bad model for development.
I have really been baffled by a lot of the recent proposed changes. I'm not sure what is prompting them, but if the approach continues, I'm not sure I can continue to support this product. I am glad that you are accepting feedback and hope that you will listen to the concerns that the majority of players support.
The random queue will not make this system better, but even worse. More options you say? In my opinion it's less AD gained, more time spent and more unfriendly for alts and less geared players. Please give us other incentives to run the other dungeons! This is not the right way.
Seals of the Protector? To restore the armor, we need to farm Voninblood. More grinding to get what? The ability to random queue for salvage loot. I don't think this sounds rewarding or a lot of fun.
Even more unfriendly for lower geared/casual players or alts. We have to unlock MSP in order to queue for Malabog's Castle. Makes no sense to me.
Basically, you are forcing us to play a certain way and certain content instead of giving us new options.
Now, here is what they would need to do to make this work:
Skirmish 3000
Dungeon 4000
Epic dungeon 5000
= 12000 RAD
So 1500 RAD less than before. And that's if you risk queuing for a random epic dungeon with a high chance of ending up in FBI or MSP with a group that will struggle for 1 hour and give up before the end.
On top of that I would expect PVE people to start queuing for the random PVP to get the daily RAD they can't get elsewhere which will most likely end up upsetting PVP'ers more than anything else, and for good reasons.
What if I want to run simple dungeons to get simple AD so I can buy fashion items. I spend REAL money on this game too, just because I'm not some die hard play hard until I get end game content person.
You need to rethink your attitudes.
If you want to make this an addition then fine, or another daily bonus then fine, but don't make me play frickin Castle Never if all I wanna do is play a fast dungeon. I took some people in Castle Never the other day and we could all go, but we could NOT finish it after more than an hour. I don't want to stay in a dungeon an hour, EVER if it's too hard for me to finish at the end. That's ridiculous. It's a ridiculously hard dungeon for most new 8500 IL's anyways, that's a ludicrous IL req in the first place.
You know you can love this game and not be good at it, you guys are so elitist. Makes me sick.
And another thing, I have epilepsy, and Sharandar and SKT both messed with my head, so sometimes people have legit reasons for not wanting to finish certain content. Do you care? No, all you care about is yourself. This bothers me SO much more than the bonding fiasco over there. I have played this game a long time, because I love DnD and I loved the original NWN games. But you guys are really pushing my buttons right now.
So now, in your new system, i cannot get any bonus AD from epic dungeons? How is that helping me?
Initially I thought this would be good for players in the range 13-69 who want to run dungeons that aren't CT. Yes they may get more players running those dungeons, but that will be with sub 12K ilevel 70s who haven't opened FBI or don't want to run FBI, MSP etc. So all they will see is the backside of those players charging off hopefully one-shotting everything on the way past. The bots will just have to run longer dungeons.
I thought it might be good for me on my main. I have everything open but don't run FBI/MSP/SVA partly partly because I'd struggle to get a group but also because my play schedule isn't really compatible with 45min ++++ runs. I wouldn't want to be the reason runs fail. It also took a year to get FBI open. I'm slow. Maybe. So I won't be using the random queue even though I often tick a bunch of boxes on the current system and see where it takes me.
I can't see the reasons for BiS players to join in. They are usually focussed on efficiency and that will be delivered by max salvage per minute. So they will run eToS and eSoT more not less because they will need to.
New 70s, for that brief period between end EE and opening FBI. They will have their income slashed.
The last group are the ones who will suffer most. Gearing will be faster for very early stage 70s because they will get seals more easily and start accumulating them before 70. Although unless I misunderstand they will be getting them faster than they can use them, especially since you removed armour from the seal store.
And with the massive DPS nerf with bondings (what makes TRs borderline useless, RIP my TR), no one will EVER want any NEW players to join because they'd be useless so this just promotes giving top tier players with a lot of AD even more AD. Goooooooooood.
Well, aside the fact that I'll probably stop playing, I wasted 2000 hours on the game and suddenly, the devs decide to make us line up and bend over. This IS NOT OKAY. This is NOT good game development. This is anti-consumer at its finest. Oh well.
I guess I like the changes, I can finally stop playing the game and start working on real life stuff. Thanks, Cryptic.
Give us reasons to want to run the various content and we will do so. I join ETOS farms when I can, running multiple chars through it because it gives a good return on my time. No, it isn't fun but the rewards aren't there to do the other content that way. Fix that and I'll run other content. Don't just decide that I'm Doing It Wrong and try to force me to play the game some other way. Don't tell the players that you have to do a public random queue with 1 Approved Healer class and 1 Approved Tank class and 3 Approved DPS classes or they get nothing but salvage.
This idea is fine as an addition to the current system but as a replacement it is abysmal. There is no way I want to just queue into something (even with 4 friends) and not know if I might end up in Valindra's Tower or Master Spellplague. That is insane.
No way Jose, I will quit and take the leaver penalty and spend the down time running dragons in the guild, or doing masterworks or trading on the AH.
If you implement this in this form it will be the greatest self inflicted wound since mod 6.
This is yet another massive blow to those still levelling up their Strongholds (Campaign currencies used for Keys rather than coffer) - being part of a Stronghold for me is about fostering good relationships in game not running with some random group to spend excess amount of time in a dungeon to realise that as a group we cannot complete it, to randomly queue again and again til on the off chance a well balanced group if formed.
As a guild there are virtually no guild/alliance content that give any decent rewards - Marauders (was looking promising) but the voucher drops are so low that its not worthwhile doing more than 5 rounds - and its not even included in x2 Influence.....Really.
Dragonflight, better for voucher drops, seals - the equipment obsolete - so fangs for some unique dyes and no influence - except a rare chance at a chest.
I always look forward to the second part of the Mod updates as usually gives value to the gameplay - this essentially is a slap in the face.
So in essence what you are proposing is more time running content with random strangers and less/no time running with friends and Guild members which is why most people play the game.
> Hell NO! I dont pug (too many bad experiences). I run with Guildmates or known players, as a guild we will carry our leveling guys through content. But forced to go into a random Dungeon with a group of four players who may be barely leveled to get in?
> No way Jose, I will quit and take the leaver penalty and spend the down time running dragons in the guild, or doing masterworks or trading on the AH.
>
> If you implement this in this form it will be the greatest self inflicted wound since mod 6.
The sum of all proposed changes is a much much larger hamster than mod 6 and coal gate combined
If anyone wants a taste of how this will pan out just try SVA and MSVA normal Sva ends up being tougher than MSVA oddly because of group composition, you melt your way through MSVA and yet can struggle in SVA. Now imagine that you get the SVA group composition forced on you due to the system
Yesterday I experienced a possible example of this in an MSVA queue, we had a geared group sadly the host got sandbagged by a DC who was not qualified to run MSVA so to try and be fair to that person (assuming it was an error), he opted for SVA, two minutes in half the group bailed and the cleric who caused the problem died once and stood at the door for the remainder of the run (well up until the remaining four decided to wipe).
This will be the future reality we could all face if this idiocy goes ahead!
Ensure all queues are firing in a reasonable time frame, regardless of popularity.
** There are a reason much of the content is not run - getting keys for many of the dungeons/skirmishes is overtly time-consuming for one - a kessels key takes so many resources to make, the gold cresents for a Malabogs key needs 20 x Gold cresents - you can't even get these from running all the daily content - so needs to be augmented with Fomorian concoctionand/or running MotH. There are various reasons for the lack of popularity - address these issues.**
Reduce burnout from running the same queue ad nauseum by introducing variety.
** It would be self-inflicted nauseum - the players CHOOSE what they currently run - you do not CURRENTLY force them.**
Make it clear when you are eligible for and when you receive daily bonus AD and seals.
** For new players this may be the case - is this simply lack of in-game guidance - simple fix be more clear with the current model.**
Provide further bonuses for those players who can master the most difficult content.
** End-game difficult content already has an added benefit - masterwork drops etc. Increase the rewards for this content if need be but don't penalise those who cannot compete to struggle with content they DO NOT want to do or just simply CANT.
Incentivize playing roles that are currently underplayed to reduce queue wait times.
** I play nearly all classes and some I find enjoyable - some I don't - not only are you telling us WHAT to Run, you are now telling us WHAT class we should run. The only incentive to run a particular class is if YOU ENJOY it.**
Incentivize helping players who are new to a queue to foster a positive environment.
** Fostering a positive environment with strangers in one run with a random group of people who you are more likely never to see again - this is clearly not a great way to achieve this goal in my humble opinion.**
What if you need to run that one skirmish over and over and over again because it is required if you want to progress in your boons (looking at you, mythical Dwarven Spelunking) and now you won't even get any AD for it?
I am not liking this change, it feel like it rewards the high-end characters that can clear any content and severly punishes the lower end toons.
That said, the "ooh, I wonder where I'll end up" factor might be somewhat appealing if it were a bonus on the existing system and not a replacement.
Does the New Player bonus take into account the "new old" dungeons, for example if I ran eTOS or CN before the rework but haven't ran it after, do I qualify for the new player bonus?
And what about keys, now you have to craft every possible key because you might end up in a dungeon and get nothing otherwise. A possible incentive could be that you get to open the chest without a key if you enter the dungeon by random queue?
If players are not playing certain dungeons, there is a reason for it. MSP's reputation for long runs and giving a single rank 5 is just an example.
Give people a good reason to run those dungeons and players will run them, force them to run content and you are going to have some unhappy players.
Personally, I'll just farm eToS for salvage. I pug plenty, everythng up to CN, am not pugging FBI or MSP.
Your changes will not make me run FBI, MSP, as far as I am concerned, your attempt to force me to play those with a random team has failed already.
As I mentioned earlier am not spending 2 hours with a loud mouthed 12 yr old who thinks he knows it all. I don;t like FBI very much, depsite the terrible rewards I actually prefer MSP over it, I like running it with friends, but I usually don;t because most don;t like running it.
I understand your money, resources and staff are limited, you would be better off focusing on somethng we want rather than what you want.
Crafting keys is a pain in the rear, I do it for 2 characters only, both can pug anything, am not wasting my keys and time, without maximising my return on the time spent crafting them.