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Official Feedback Thread: Random Queues

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  • senseiwasdsenseiwasd Member Posts: 60 Arc User
    edited September 2017
    asterdahl said:

    Role Bonus

    The current system is bugged, because it considers Temptation Warlocks DPS, and Oath of Devotion Paladins Tanks, despite the fact that they both heal far more than any Cleric in their tier (and, in most cases, more than Clerics several thousand IL above their tier). Warlocks and Paladins intending to heal always have to request any public que be made private because of this. Similarly, there are GF's who are specced so they can out punch even GWF's in their tier.

    Plus, Clerics are extremely rare - and due to rumors circulating about their power sharing being nerfed, becoming even more rare. This wouldn't really encourage more Clerics, so much as make people frustrated with them when they inevitably steal the Role bonus.

    ...and as it is, there isn't really a balance between class roles in general - most are DPS.

    Leaving aside the fact that you guys really need to concentrate on critical bugs and adding/restoring content, rather than re-inventing the wheel everyone was rolling fine with... No one's going to complain about seeing the older dungeons returned, and those that have, given epic variants.

    I've worked on the Foundry long enough to know that, not including play testing, that'd take all of a few hours to do. Get someone on it.

  • mightyerikssonmightyeriksson Member Posts: 842 Arc User
    Being heavily medicated, I'm not sure I'm getting this right...

    The ususal (and now glorious solo) queue; if I as a level 70 would run Cloak Tower for the regular RAD, this change would stop giving RAD?

    or

    If the "random queue" is something that only provides an extra bonus "on top" of the regular RAD and such, then that's good and all that.
  • time2011time2011 Member Posts: 125 Arc User
    edited September 2017
    "We know that as players get used to the new paradigm many may consider trying to leave if they don’t get the exact queue they wanted. Please make sure you have time before selecting a random queue and that you are willing to complete whatever duty appears before you. If you decide to leave the queue early, you will be unable to queue again for 30 minutes."

    Are you HAMSTER kidding me, basically punishing new players from doing dungeons and old ones cuz of how messed up the system is your going to put a 30 minute penalty on us for leaving a failed run? what the hell are you guys thinking, if this is a scheme to make as many players hate the game and find elsewhere to play where they are not persecuted for playing. Its going to work without a hitch on release day. there a bunch of players who simply just dont have the time to do a run that could take an hour or more because they got grouped with people who are fresh level 70's trying to learn the game and are getting slaughtered because they are inexperienced and undergeared. And when the dungeon is already a fail and it simply can't be done the people who leave get basically a jail sentence from doing any dungeons for 30min. your just asking for people to leave the game. work with the que system as is now, make some adjustments but dont go making a new one no one is going to like.
  • rathimarrathimar Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5 Arc User
    I may have missed something (it's early and have had only one cup of coffee so far), but I don't believe you answered the specific question of whether we will ONLY be able to gain AD from dungeons/skirmishes by doing this 'Random Queue' content?
  • usernamefatigueusernamefatigue Member Posts: 60 Arc User
    edited September 2017
    I'm a cleric with everything unlocked, and my feeling on this is that it will be well worth it to just skip that daily ad and try to compensate elsewhere rather than get trapped forever in a dungeon that I didn't choose or want to be in with a group that may or may not be able to complete it. While I am currently willing to pug some dungeons of my choosing (based on mood, time available, whim), I will not be if I have no agency to decide what I can/want to do in that moment. So that's definitely one fewer support in your queues.

    If you do go ahead with this, I implore you on behalf of players with lower-level toons to rethink the *have to have everything in a particular category unlocked to run anything in the category* thing. As I understand this, someone has to fight their way through the mobs in RD in order to unlock Spellplague to make it into ETOS? Without even the gear from ETOS? That's irrational and unfair. The difficulty of these 2 things is vastly different. Yes, I'm aware they can still q for ETOS in regular q, but someone who is short on time will now have to choose between AD and gear. Uncool.

    Additionally, I get where you were trying to go, particularly with the burnout; however, this implementation misses the mark in my view. I don't think that making people run stuff they aren't choosing and do not want to do on a daily basis for teeny weeny rewards will prevent people from quitting the game. If anything, pushing players into content they don't want to do over and over again is only going to accelerate burnout.

    Finally, remember in school when the new kid had to wear that sign saying "HI, I'm new! Say hi to me!"
    ...yeah. That'll be fun for the new players. As if everyone else won't know from the first mob who the new guy is.
  • silverkeltsilverkelt Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,235 Arc User
    edited September 2017
    I fail to remember a clamor to change the existing systems, while at least bonding and refinement (though slightly or horribly implemented by their proposals) have been discussions amongst players for years.

    this is coming out of left field and as such is as bad as the bonding changes..

    its actually worse if you stop and think about it.

    you in all likely hood will earn less AD a day then you are now..

    anyone like that thought?

    anyone?



  • floppiesfloppies Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    asterdahl said:

    First I’ll discuss the role bonus. As an example if there are currently less tanks in the epic dungeon random queue than other roles, the current role bonus for that random queue would be tank.

    Please let us choose in which role we fit best and dont hardlimit it to class&path. There are four kind of roles: Tank, Heal, DD and Buffer and combination of those. Or how do you determine the role?

  • armadeonxarmadeonx Member Posts: 4,952 Arc User
    @silverkelt it appears these issues only occur to players. This entire project appears so badly thought through that I wonder at what process they use to come up with these ideas.
    Please Do Not Feed The Trolls

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    Xane De Armadeon: CW
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  • time2011time2011 Member Posts: 125 Arc User
    armadeonx said:

    @silverkelt it appears these issues only occur to players. This entire project appears so badly thought through that I wonder at what process they use to come up with these ideas.

    its simple they were drunk and decided to draw straws shortest one won and this is what became the result of it

  • silverkeltsilverkelt Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,235 Arc User
    edited September 2017
    they dont.. they dont really have a clue what works best , just like if they were forced to run day to day they would see the cluster HAMSTER, yes yes.. they say they do.. but lets be honest.

    this game is set up for a full time job now.. not so much fun anymore... woopie doopie.

    Here is my motto, I get gear to run with friends, not get gear to run for fun.. ya know the difference? its not the digital currency chasing that has ever got me excited.. its the ability to advance so i can run things with people i know. Ive never though mmos should limit things or gate things harshly, i still dont.. what does it matter in the end? The more people you can run with the better is my thought.

    I dont really relish chasing gear.. its boring to me .. I do it to run with folks.. thats it.

    I prefer the more streamline approach, run things, earn it, have fun..

    not the rng approach which saddens me..

    NOW you can add RNG fun to your queue system ?

    WOOT!

    Bashing removed

    Post edited by tripsofthrymr on
  • jonkocajonkoca Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,586 Arc User
    This sounds like a pre-emptive move to insure the game against a diminished playerbase. When the queues are randomized, they'll pop within a reasonable timeframe, even if the total number of people queuing is low.

    Atm. X number of players solo- queue for y number of dungeons etc. hoping 4 others of the right class if necessary are also in q. Random queuing removes the y variable.
    No idea what my toon is now.
  • aerthyn71aerthyn71 Member Posts: 12 Arc User
    I would like to know a few pieces of information to just be clear on another core issue I have with this. It seems there is a lack of support classes whether this be DC/GF/OP doing public queues and the time to match groups on most public dungeon/skirmishes is larger than you would want.

    Implementing this change will compound this issue MAJORLY. Many support classes will either not get involved out of principle/lack of time/lack of enthusiasm and those that do only have an incentive to do this once on there character per day.

    So what is going to happen to all those dps classes that can't get matched ? This will lead to a bottleneck effect and lead to increased queueing times/frustration and inevitably fostering a negative environment in which we are playing not a positive one which is one of your goals.

    These support classes can't magically appear from thin air and will take time for people to level up, get boons etc. if they appear at all - again support my last statement you need to WANT to play the class you have and enjoy it, not NEED to.

    So realistically what would be the waiting times on dps versus current support classes (instantaneous would have thought) - what %/Number of dps classes simply CANNOT get matched due to insufficient support classes to form the groups ?
  • armadeonxarmadeonx Member Posts: 4,952 Arc User
    jonkoca said:

    This sounds like a pre-emptive move to insure the game against a diminished playerbase. When the queues are randomized, they'll pop within a reasonable timeframe, even if the total number of people queuing is low.

    Atm. X number of players solo- queue for y number of dungeons etc. hoping 4 others of the right class if necessary are also in q. Random queuing removes the y variable.

    Yeah that's fine and nobody would object to having a "queue all" option. The issue is with forcing people to do it by making it the only way to get the AD bonus.
    Please Do Not Feed The Trolls

    Xael De Armadeon: DC
    Xane De Armadeon: CW
    Zen De Armadeon: OP
    Zohar De Armadeon: TR
    Chrion De Armadeon: SW
    Gosti Big Belly: GWF
    Barney McRustbucket: GF
    Lt. Thackeray: HR
    Lucius De Armadeon: BD


    Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
  • ichimaruginxichimaruginx Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 230 Arc User
    edited September 2017
    @asterdahl
    When considering about implementing this system, have you guys consider the impact of it to players with less than stable connections that still would like to play with their guildies/friends?

    The scenario I'm seeing is that they'll have a HIGH chance of getting hit with
    (when they dcced due to connection problems):
    1. A leaver penalty OR
    2. Get kicked out of the group because their are in a random queue with random people that care more about replacing a body for the run than being considerate OR
    3. Unable to join back to continue the run with their friends as the system replaces them with another person when they try to get that person back

    Is there any foreseeable solutions for these possible problems that will greatly affect the enjoyability of the gameplay? If not, I think many would prefer keeping the current queue system as it is
    , AT LEAST RIGHT NOW WE CAN RUN SOMETHING WITHOUT SPENDING 30MINS TRYING TO GET A PARTY MEMBER BACK IN THE GROUP.
  • preechr#2215 preechr Member Posts: 488 Arc User
    @asterdahl , no offense, but could you please edit your posts for clarity by using dungeon when you mean dungeon instead of using the word queue as if it also meant dungeon? Interchanging those words makes something complex confusing...

    FBI, MSP and T9G all require campaign unlocks which in turn require months of work that is OPTIONAL. There will come a time when players simply skip IWD and SKT because the black ice, voninblod and fishing no longer have relevance in the end game. The boons are not good or even important for the most part, though players that skip the northern campaigns may eventually go back and run through them just to max out their iL.

    MSVA also requires an optional campaign unlock (so does EDEMO but that one is much less difficult to obtain) and people rarely would run that unless they're farming for RP needed for restoration. Tiamat is only run by people that know the mechanics of it or that are so highly geared they can ignore them.

    MSVA and FBI require everfrost resistance to get in, and squishies/tanks generally prefer more than just the periapt provides, so to queue randomly would require everyone to gear up appropriately in case they get dropped in either.

    FBI, MSP and T9G are orders of magnitude more complex, difficult and require much more preparation and teamwork than epic dungeons below them. All three should be in your Hero's Accord. Anyone queuing for that should be familiar enough with their mechanics to not be a liability, but none of them follow the tank, healer, 3 DPS party structure. You guys will need to work something out there, but only for that group, but generally speaking, these guys are farming those dungeons for RP, Fartouched Residuum and Seals, respectively, not for their terrible rewards or challenging content. Honestly, you could leave this part out until mod 13 so you have time to figure out how to handle it.

    As a DC and a care bear, I would love to queue up for epic dungeons up to and including Castle Never, and so would many tanks, templocks and other support classes, I'm sure. Its really cool that we would be incentivized to do so. I would also queue for the non-epics and skirmishes at the same time happily if it were an all or none thing. Your bonus for this will probably work as intended, but you should consider letting classes that won't qualify for the extra support bonus un-check a few of the dungeons or skirmishes because they truly hate them or know they can't complete them.

    TL;DR:
    -Put FBI, MSP and T9G all in Hero's Accord and work out something sensible on party composition. Call them Heroic instead of Epic Dungeons.
    -take Tia out of the random skirmishes altogether, and put MSVA and future campaign locked skirmishes in their own Heroic random queue
    -Allow support classes to queue up for everything non-heroic for a nice fat bonus of REFINED astral diamonds or something we can send to our alts to refine, let us do get that bonus more than once per day, and allow others to pick among normal skirmish or dungeon queues, epic skirmish or dungeon queues or the heroic versions for a one time bonus that averages what they can currently make from doing 2xskirmishes and 2xdungeons if they pick epics (lower for normal, higher for heroics,) and let them deselect at least a couple of them among the epics at least.
    -Bonus points if you automatically deselect as yet unlocked dungeons for players that are still leveling up.


  • usernamefatigueusernamefatigue Member Posts: 60 Arc User
    evalira said:

    With this change, my GF is the only toon I will be able to run epic dungeons on, even though I have one of each class and all over 11k, just because I haven't unlocked SKT or RD on them all they can now no longer earn RADs.

    I'm really really sorry they're doing this to you :(

  • jumpingmorksjumpingmorks Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 876 Arc User
    jonkoca said:

    This sounds like a pre-emptive move to insure the game against a diminished playerbase. When the queues are randomized, they'll pop within a reasonable timeframe, even if the total number of people queuing is low.

    Atm. X number of players solo- queue for y number of dungeons etc. hoping 4 others of the right class if necessary are also in q. Random queuing removes the y variable.

    Private 5 man queues pop pretty quick for me.

  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User
    edited September 2017
    I have been thinking, and I do not see a single scenario where I would use the random queue.

    I sometimes run a dungeon for a chance at specific rewards. My playing time is too lmited for me to spend it on a dungeon that will not reward me with anything I need/want.

    I sometimes run a dungeon to help lower-geared people in my guild/alliance. They typically do not have everything unlocked - are just trying to improve their gear or earn a bit of AD - so they would not be able to use the random queues anyhow. No bonus AD for them.

    Plain and simple: The random queues do not solve a single problem - just annoy people needlessly.

    Stuff like this is exactly why I stopped recommending Neverwinter to my friends. No wonder the player numbers are dropping and ratings on Steam and elsewhere are getting worse.
    Hoping for improvements...
  • senseiwasdsenseiwasd Member Posts: 60 Arc User
    edited September 2017
    You guys up there do realize there is almost no content for the 5,000 IL to 9,399 IL folks as it is? (And not a whole lot more until 11K? Most of which isn't viable without two 16K in escort.) And you're talking about locking out that whole group from gaining AD for the few dungeons they can hope to run that aren't for folks half their level (apparently including those)?

    Not to mention how broken some of these dungeons are? Like EGWD or ECC, where the final boss is meaner than the whole rest of the dungeon combined, and flat unbeatable at the recommended item level?

    Can we stop it with the massive scary nerfs and just spend an hour bringing back the old dungeons and epic'ing those you already brought back? Can we stop doing things that aggravate the community, and concentrate instead on adding content and fixing bugs?

    Plus, the que system was broken for YEARS - and now that you've finally got it working right, you wanna re-do the whole thing? This sounds not only masochistic to players, but sadomasochistic to the developers.
  • blazious11blazious11 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 331 Arc User
    edited September 2017
    So, if I have an alt DC, that I know I will never unlock MSP with, because I don't want to run it with my DC, but I really like FBI for example, then I won't ever be able to queu for random T2andhalf que. So alt Tanks and DC-s won't que for this type, therefore we will still lack of support classes in these queus. ?
    My story is truly a grand tale! Of course, any story about me is going to be grand simply by virtue of the main character.
  • usernamefatigueusernamefatigue Member Posts: 60 Arc User

    So, if I have an alt DC, that I know I will never unlock MSP with, because I don't want to run it with my DC, but I really like FBI for example, then I won't ever be able to queu for random T2andhalf que. So alt Tanks and DC-s won't que for this type, therefore we will still lack of support classes in these queus. ?

    It seems they didn't think their cunning plan all the way through.

  • time2011time2011 Member Posts: 125 Arc User
    i agree with you senseiwasd, ecc and egwd are ridculously over powered for somethings for a rec il of 8400. if no one is atleast 13k and more that dungeon can take hours and people would be burning through hundreds of kits til they run or just bail and now if people bail when this HAMSTER goes live they get punished for it? idk i may just consider finding another game to play cause this feels more like a prison game where you have no real free will and when you do have it they crush it in the worst way they can think of. the worst of it is new players or people who are just coming back and cant que anything they want because they have to unlock all the dungeons just to do a random que to get their daily ad's wont be able to. so someone would have to wait weeks to get their daily ad's cause they have to burn through dailies for said campaign just to unlock something you used to do whenever you wanted.
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