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Official Feedback Thread: Random Queues

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  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    but yeah all these changes at once and they are all wildly unpopular changes that no one wants..

    we don't like change. why wouldn't these things be rolled out nice and slow.. like this here. this shouldn't be until a half mod after your other changes (although 90 percent of us would rather you just didn't do the things you're doing) so everyone can see where we are at in being able to complete things still even in premades.

    I seriously (and I'm not trying to be dramatic ) get the feeling that somehow cryptic is TRYING to fail here. it's wierd and surreal. I just keep going why? no really.. WHY...?
  • m0nkeyking27m0nkeyking27 Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    why you have to go out of your way and ruin the game, its fine as is it now for PVE, rather do something about the PVP!!
    If u think changing the skirmishes and dungs and epics are gonna solve your problem for botting ,then fine!! But did you even take into account how many players will leave the game, because of your selfish decission to change the income of the low level player. I have literally seen so many changes in Neverwinter, and this change by far pisses me off tbh!! I invested more than 500$ in the game, which now seems i should leave just because u keep decreasing the AD source day by day!! Please rethink of what you going to do!! Either help keep your Player who will in turn keep Your player base , or else people will do leave the game for another! I really Dont understand how You think that people will play afterall these changes. Rather than these changes You could have looked into the PVP matters, change gauntlgrym, But no u guys will changes something which doesnt even needs changing so that people invest more money!!
  • armadeonxarmadeonx Member Posts: 4,952 Arc User


    I seriously (and I'm not trying to be dramatic ) get the feeling that somehow cryptic is TRYING to fail here. it's wierd and surreal. I just keep going why? no really.. WHY...?

    Me too. I actually find myself completely without motivation for logging in and doing my dailies. I sit there and say to myself; "why am I bothering..?"

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  • micky1p00micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,594 Arc User

    armadeonx said:

    See here's the thing. Some players avoid elol because they can't handle the jumps (disability, dexterity, whatever) some avoid Cragmire's as the boss there is disproportionately hard compared to other T2's and you need a decent group etc.

    Forcing these players to queue into dungeons they don't like or can't handle is a very bad idea.

    I used to play pvp in uncharted a lot. they had a system where they gave you a vote on map. as well as game type. something like that might work. a vote for which tier dungeon if everyone is capable of all three and then a vote on a couple random dungeons. if some communication is allowed in the que before such a vote if someone can't run something it could be avoided.
    In ranked SC2, you can ban 3 maps (iirc) from the map pool, so you don't get the nastiest thing for you. There it's easier because it's 1vs1. But still a vote system on 2 bans, can solve this. Regardless of all of this other 'things' and AD nerf.
  • thavi2013thavi2013 Member Posts: 11 Arc User
    asterdahl said:

    I know that there are many players are thinking of things in terms of loss of efficiency right now. Many of you have gotten over the idea that you'll run Temple of the Spider twice a day for eternity. It's not the case that everyone who runs Temple of the Spider passionately loves that dungeon though. Keep in mind that for every player who had accepted that fate, there's another who upon learning that running Temple of the Spider twice a day for eternity was needed to max out their AD, said "no thank you" and stopped playing.

    It's not the case that we are being cynical here, we honestly believe that running the same exact content over and over when there are lots more options is, well, not great. We can't blame those players who quit because of that. We play as well and we'd like to mix it up and play more content. We understand that for those of you who tolerated running the same content over and over for efficiency are feeling a bit of a sting by having some of that freedom removed.

    Please consider why the majority of players runs the same dungeon over and over: it's because the rewards from dungeons are simply bad (MSP anyone?). You should know that, because the players have said it so many times. What happened is, the players have adapted to this bad system and try to get the most out of it: AD and salvage in the least amount of time. This is the only thing we can do and, moreover something that YOU have designed.

    The random queue will not make this system better, but even worse. More options you say? In my opinion it's less AD gained, more time spent and more unfriendly for alts and less geared players. Please give us other incentives to run the other dungeons! This is not the right way.
    asterdahl said:

    Additionally, with refinement adjustments coming soon as well as the ease of acquiring new equipment both with Module 12's updates to seals, and new ways to obtain seals with random queues in Module 12B, raising your item level has never been easier.

    Seals of the Protector? To restore the armor, we need to farm Voninblood. More grinding to get what? The ability to random queue for salvage loot. I don't think this sounds rewarding or a lot of fun.


    Question: Is it possible to queue for random epic dungeons if a player has not all of them unlocked?
  • siegericsiegeric Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 41 Arc User
    Do we get to choose our role or is that a function of class assignment?
    A lot of people don't understand this, but not all GFs/Prot OPs are tanks (e.g., Conq GFs) and not all DCs/Devo OPs are heals (no, loadouts doesn't change this).
    What if a player is actually support (buffer/debuffer - there are GF and DC specs for this) rather than tank/heals?
    Can we change the roles to Tank/DPS/Support/Heals and then allow people to choose which roles they want to fill rather than what class they are?
    Nothing is worse than getting into a public queue only to find out that your "tank" isn't actually a tank or that your "healer" has no heals slotted and won't change.
    What if I want to run a dungeon (like Cloak Tower) solo? Under the change, it sounds like no rewards will be given in that case. If that's your goal, I'm certain a lot more people need to be made aware of this change or you are going to have an eruption of complaints.
    What if I want a particular reward from a dungeon (like an item transmute that only drops from the end boss/chest)? Under this system, I may run for weeks before the RNG Dungeon assigner actually puts me where I want to be. RNG is not always kind.
    What if my Stronghold daily is for a particular dungeon or I need to do an Influence Dungeon run as part of the Temple assignment? Under this system, I essentially have to choose between rewards and use of my time. Why can't I have both like under the current system?
    Overall, I don't understand why you are changing the system or are not implementing as a supplement rather than a replacement for the current system. You're penalizing players who want to group with their friends regardless who may happen to all be "tanks". You're also penalizing folks teaching others of the same class how to play their class.
    You obviously have given a lot of thought to this, but you're fixing a non-existent problem caused by someone complaining because they didn't get picked for a group. That happens in life and is not a function of the queue system.
    I really liked the model of play established in Chult where I can play on my schedule using my approach. This design concept for queues moves dramatically away from that and you are depriving players of choice. That is a bad model for development.
    I have really been baffled by a lot of the recent proposed changes. I'm not sure what is prompting them, but if the approach continues, I'm not sure I can continue to support this product. I am glad that you are accepting feedback and hope that you will listen to the concerns that the majority of players support.
  • thavi2013thavi2013 Member Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited September 2017
    asterdahl said:

    I know that there are many players are thinking of things in terms of loss of efficiency right now. Many of you have gotten over the idea that you'll run Temple of the Spider twice a day for eternity. It's not the case that everyone who runs Temple of the Spider passionately loves that dungeon though. Keep in mind that for every player who had accepted that fate, there's another who upon learning that running Temple of the Spider twice a day for eternity was needed to max out their AD, said "no thank you" and stopped playing.

    It's not the case that we are being cynical here, we honestly believe that running the same exact content over and over when there are lots more options is, well, not great. We can't blame those players who quit because of that. We play as well and we'd like to mix it up and play more content. We understand that for those of you who tolerated running the same content over and over for efficiency are feeling a bit of a sting by having some of that freedom removed.

    Please consider why the majority of players runs the same dungeon over and over: it's because the rewards from dungeons are simply bad (MSP anyone?). You should know that, because the players have said it so many times. What happened is, the players have adapted to this bad system and try to get the most out of it: AD and salvage in the least amount of time. This is the only thing we can do and, moreover something that you have designed.

    The random queue will not make this system better, but even worse. More options you say? In my opinion it's less AD gained, more time spent and more unfriendly for alts and less geared players. Please give us other incentives to run the other dungeons! This is not the right way.
    asterdahl said:

    Additionally, with refinement adjustments coming soon as well as the ease of acquiring new equipment both with Module 12's updates to seals, and new ways to obtain seals with random queues in Module 12B, raising your item level has never been easier.

    Seals of the Protector? To restore the armor, we need to farm Voninblood. More grinding to get what? The ability to random queue for salvage loot. I don't think this sounds rewarding or a lot of fun.
    asterdahl said:

    Additionally, if there are any other requirements for queues such as campaign completion, you must meet those requirements as well. Simply put, you must be eligible for every queue in a random queue’s full list before you can queue.

    Even more unfriendly for lower geared/casual players or alts. We have to unlock MSP in order to queue for Malabog's Castle. Makes no sense to me.
    Basically, you are forcing us to play a certain way and certain content instead of giving us new options.
    Post edited by thavi2013 on
  • bigrong49#7420 bigrong49 Member Posts: 30 Arc User
    I'll make this extremely simple. A lot of us, don't like being restricted when new content arrives. So why are you so insistent on locking every new dungeon or trial behind a campaign? It is truly such a boring way of adding new stuff. We had to grind at least 30 days to FBI, why? The last two Mods have provided us with lackluster boons, which is a mitigating factor campaign completion. If we're trying to make quality-of-life improvements, as long as we have the IL we should be allowed in any dungeon.
  • valnar#5458 valnar Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. I can see the good intentions and I can see the road to hell.

    Initially I thought this would be good for players in the range 13-69 who want to run dungeons that aren't CT. Yes they may get more players running those dungeons, but that will be with sub 12K ilevel 70s who haven't opened FBI or don't want to run FBI, MSP etc. So all they will see is the backside of those players charging off hopefully one-shotting everything on the way past. The bots will just have to run longer dungeons.

    I thought it might be good for me on my main. I have everything open but don't run FBI/MSP/SVA partly partly because I'd struggle to get a group but also because my play schedule isn't really compatible with 45min ++++ runs. I wouldn't want to be the reason runs fail. It also took a year to get FBI open. I'm slow. Maybe. So I won't be using the random queue even though I often tick a bunch of boxes on the current system and see where it takes me.

    I can't see the reasons for BiS players to join in. They are usually focussed on efficiency and that will be delivered by max salvage per minute. So they will run eToS and eSoT more not less because they will need to.

    New 70s, for that brief period between end EE and opening FBI. They will have their income slashed.

    The last group are the ones who will suffer most. Gearing will be faster for very early stage 70s because they will get seals more easily and start accumulating them before 70. Although unless I misunderstand they will be getting them faster than they can use them, especially since you removed armour from the seal store.



  • gromovnipljesak#8234 gromovnipljesak Member Posts: 1,053 Arc User
    So you're telling me that... the MOST requested classes (support - heals, buffs and tanks) get MORE AD? Even though they're the classes that have the LEAST issues getting into a run and doing stuff, because of how requested they are?
    And with the massive DPS nerf with bondings (what makes TRs borderline useless, RIP my TR), no one will EVER want any NEW players to join because they'd be useless so this just promotes giving top tier players with a lot of AD even more AD. Goooooooooood.
    Well, aside the fact that I'll probably stop playing, I wasted 2000 hours on the game and suddenly, the devs decide to make us line up and bend over. This IS NOT OKAY. This is NOT good game development. This is anti-consumer at its finest. Oh well.
    I guess I like the changes, I can finally stop playing the game and start working on real life stuff. Thanks, Cryptic.
  • rustednailsrustednails Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    This change takes away player agency and further discourages casual players like me from spending my limited time (and money) on this game. The RNG is bad enough, but taking away my ability to strategize my time, aim for specific dungeons/drops without hamstringing my ability to get RAD from dungeon runs will make this game feel like a vicious and joyless slot machine: if I wanted that, I would go to Vegas. I had regained some hope after the devs pulled back from the disastrous and tone deaf proposed change to bonding runestones, but now it seems clear that they are completely out of touch with players and their desires. It's too bad, because I had grown quite fond of this game.
  • mahburgmahburg Member Posts: 598 Arc User
    Hell NO! I dont pug (too many bad experiences). I run with Guildmates or known players, as a guild we will carry our leveling guys through content. But forced to go into a random Dungeon with a group of four players who may be barely leveled to get in?
    No way Jose, I will quit and take the leaver penalty and spend the down time running dragons in the guild, or doing masterworks or trading on the AH.

    If you implement this in this form it will be the greatest self inflicted wound since mod 6.

  • aerthyn71aerthyn71 Member Posts: 12 Arc User
    Well AD is one thing - but my main concern is maintaining the number of keys to open the end chests for all the variable dungeons/skirmishes that you could potentially randomly get.

    This is yet another massive blow to those still levelling up their Strongholds (Campaign currencies used for Keys rather than coffer) - being part of a Stronghold for me is about fostering good relationships in game not running with some random group to spend excess amount of time in a dungeon to realise that as a group we cannot complete it, to randomly queue again and again til on the off chance a well balanced group if formed.

    As a guild there are virtually no guild/alliance content that give any decent rewards - Marauders (was looking promising) but the voucher drops are so low that its not worthwhile doing more than 5 rounds - and its not even included in x2 Influence.....Really.

    Dragonflight, better for voucher drops, seals - the equipment obsolete - so fangs for some unique dyes and no influence - except a rare chance at a chest.

    I always look forward to the second part of the Mod updates as usually gives value to the gameplay - this essentially is a slap in the face.

    So in essence what you are proposing is more time running content with random strangers and less/no time running with friends and Guild members which is why most people play the game.
  • time2011time2011 Member Posts: 125 Arc User
    hell HAMSTER no what the HAMSTER are you idiots doing to the game?! its bad enough you guys had to screw people with the bondings now dungeons too? how in the hell is anyone supposed to farm ad's then, not only that if its mandated you have all epic dungeons unlocked to que them then the new players who are having a hard time unlocking will never see an epic dungeon, bad HAMSTER idea
  • time2011time2011 Member Posts: 125 Arc User
    it took me some time to figure out the que system you guys made now your gonna make a new one? fix the actual problems dont go making new ones
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    > @mahburg said:
    > Hell NO! I dont pug (too many bad experiences). I run with Guildmates or known players, as a guild we will carry our leveling guys through content. But forced to go into a random Dungeon with a group of four players who may be barely leveled to get in?
    > No way Jose, I will quit and take the leaver penalty and spend the down time running dragons in the guild, or doing masterworks or trading on the AH.
    >
    > If you implement this in this form it will be the greatest self inflicted wound since mod 6.

    The sum of all proposed changes is a much much larger hamster than mod 6 and coal gate combined
  • mahburgmahburg Member Posts: 598 Arc User

    > @mahburg said:

    > Hell NO! I dont pug (too many bad experiences). I run with Guildmates or known players, as a guild we will carry our leveling guys through content. But forced to go into a random Dungeon with a group of four players who may be barely leveled to get in?

    > No way Jose, I will quit and take the leaver penalty and spend the down time running dragons in the guild, or doing masterworks or trading on the AH.

    >

    > If you implement this in this form it will be the greatest self inflicted wound since mod 6.



    The sum of all proposed changes is a much much larger hamster than mod 6 and coal gate combined

    ^^^^^ yeah that^^^^^
    If anyone wants a taste of how this will pan out just try SVA and MSVA normal Sva ends up being tougher than MSVA oddly because of group composition, you melt your way through MSVA and yet can struggle in SVA. Now imagine that you get the SVA group composition forced on you due to the system :(.

    Yesterday I experienced a possible example of this in an MSVA queue, we had a geared group sadly the host got sandbagged by a DC who was not qualified to run MSVA so to try and be fair to that person (assuming it was an error), he opted for SVA, two minutes in half the group bailed and the cleric who caused the problem died once and stood at the door for the remainder of the run (well up until the remaining four decided to wipe).

    This will be the future reality we could all face if this idiocy goes ahead!
  • aerthyn71aerthyn71 Member Posts: 12 Arc User
    In addition to answer the goals:

    Ensure all queues are firing in a reasonable time frame, regardless of popularity.

    ** There are a reason much of the content is not run - getting keys for many of the dungeons/skirmishes is overtly time-consuming for one - a kessels key takes so many resources to make, the gold cresents for a Malabogs key needs 20 x Gold cresents - you can't even get these from running all the daily content - so needs to be augmented with Fomorian concoctionand/or running MotH. There are various reasons for the lack of popularity - address these issues.**

    Reduce burnout from running the same queue ad nauseum by introducing variety.
    ** It would be self-inflicted nauseum - the players CHOOSE what they currently run - you do not CURRENTLY force them.**

    Make it clear when you are eligible for and when you receive daily bonus AD and seals.
    ** For new players this may be the case - is this simply lack of in-game guidance - simple fix be more clear with the current model.**

    Provide further bonuses for those players who can master the most difficult content.
    ** End-game difficult content already has an added benefit - masterwork drops etc. Increase the rewards for this content if need be but don't penalise those who cannot compete to struggle with content they DO NOT want to do or just simply CANT.

    Incentivize playing roles that are currently underplayed to reduce queue wait times.
    ** I play nearly all classes and some I find enjoyable - some I don't - not only are you telling us WHAT to Run, you are now telling us WHAT class we should run. The only incentive to run a particular class is if YOU ENJOY it.**

    Incentivize helping players who are new to a queue to foster a positive environment.
    ** Fostering a positive environment with strangers in one run with a random group of people who you are more likely never to see again - this is clearly not a great way to achieve this goal in my humble opinion.**
  • w00trandomsnoobiw00trandomsnoobi Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 387 Arc User
    From what I understood some dungeons and skirmishes are discouraged for people with the Aboleth set to run, because the bug from that set can seriously hamper the team in some situations (eSoT boss?), so if they get into that kind of dungeon do they leave and get leaver's penalty or just tag along and try not to hit the boss so other players won't yell at them?

    What if you need to run that one skirmish over and over and over again because it is required if you want to progress in your boons (looking at you, mythical Dwarven Spelunking) and now you won't even get any AD for it?

    I am not liking this change, it feel like it rewards the high-end characters that can clear any content and severly punishes the lower end toons.

    That said, the "ooh, I wonder where I'll end up" factor might be somewhat appealing if it were a bonus on the existing system and not a replacement.

    Does the New Player bonus take into account the "new old" dungeons, for example if I ran eTOS or CN before the rework but haven't ran it after, do I qualify for the new player bonus?

    And what about keys, now you have to craft every possible key because you might end up in a dungeon and get nothing otherwise. A possible incentive could be that you get to open the chest without a key if you enter the dungeon by random queue?
  • jumpingmorksjumpingmorks Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 876 Arc User
    There are many players who have just an hour or so to log in each day. I don't know if this is yet another attempt to hurt botters or an honest attempt to get players to play content they are not currently playing.

    If players are not playing certain dungeons, there is a reason for it. MSP's reputation for long runs and giving a single rank 5 is just an example.

    Give people a good reason to run those dungeons and players will run them, force them to run content and you are going to have some unhappy players.

    Personally, I'll just farm eToS for salvage. I pug plenty, everythng up to CN, am not pugging FBI or MSP.

    Your changes will not make me run FBI, MSP, as far as I am concerned, your attempt to force me to play those with a random team has failed already.

    As I mentioned earlier am not spending 2 hours with a loud mouthed 12 yr old who thinks he knows it all. I don;t like FBI very much, depsite the terrible rewards I actually prefer MSP over it, I like running it with friends, but I usually don;t because most don;t like running it.

    I understand your money, resources and staff are limited, you would be better off focusing on somethng we want rather than what you want.
  • jumpingmorksjumpingmorks Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 876 Arc User
    aerthyn71 said:

    Well AD is one thing - but my main concern is maintaining the number of keys to open the end chests for all the variable dungeons/skirmishes that you could potentially randomly get.

    This is yet another massive blow to those still levelling up their Strongholds (Campaign currencies used for Keys rather than coffer) - being part of a Stronghold for me is about fostering good relationships in game not running with some random group to spend excess amount of time in a dungeon to realise that as a group we cannot complete it, to randomly queue again and again til on the off chance a well balanced group if formed.

    As a guild there are virtually no guild/alliance content that give any decent rewards - Marauders (was looking promising) but the voucher drops are so low that its not worthwhile doing more than 5 rounds - and its not even included in x2 Influence.....Really.

    Dragonflight, better for voucher drops, seals - the equipment obsolete - so fangs for some unique dyes and no influence - except a rare chance at a chest.

    I always look forward to the second part of the Mod updates as usually gives value to the gameplay - this essentially is a slap in the face.

    So in essence what you are proposing is more time running content with random strangers and less/no time running with friends and Guild members which is why most people play the game.

    I like this point. I actually spend time making keys, when I have an MC key, Temple Tier 4 Quest and the MC SH Cleric Quest, I pug MC.

    Crafting keys is a pain in the rear, I do it for 2 characters only, both can pug anything, am not wasting my keys and time, without maximising my return on the time spent crafting them.
This discussion has been closed.