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Official Feedback Thread: Random Queues

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  • jonkocajonkoca Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,586 Arc User
    armadeonx said:

    jonkoca said:

    This sounds like a pre-emptive move to insure the game against a diminished playerbase. When the queues are randomized, they'll pop within a reasonable timeframe, even if the total number of people queuing is low.

    Atm. X number of players solo- queue for y number of dungeons etc. hoping 4 others of the right class if necessary are also in q. Random queuing removes the y variable.

    Yeah that's fine and nobody would object to having a "queue all" option. The issue is with forcing people to do it by making it the only way to get the AD bonus.
    Well, it wouldn't be much of an insurance policy if people weren't in some way compelled to participate.
    No idea what my toon is now.
  • kungomaximokungomaximo Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited September 2017
    I appreciate the intent behind the random queues, and personally like the role bonus and new player bonus.
    Have to ask: the new player thing is a daily thing? i mean: i log in, queue for 1st time that day for 1 of the random queues, and i get the "new player bonus" status. Or it's a once in a lifetime thing, as in 1st time ever i queue for a category i didn't have access (ie: i finally unlocked SVA and can access epic trials, and queue for the 1st time ever)?

    Sorry if it has already been clarified, read 1st page and only skimmed rest, but need a bit of info (the devil is the details as they say) on the dungeons categories:

    I understood it'll change with future mods/patches, but with game as it is now (mod 12) what would be included in the "Dungeon" and "Epic Dungeons" random queues?

    If i should infer from the before - after Rough AD list and the seals bonus bag, i'd say:
    • Dungeons: these will be what we refer to T1 & T2, like valindra tower, or temple of the spider
    • Epic Dungeons: will include Fangbreaker Island and master spellplague, maybe CN too?
    If that's the case i'd say it's an acceptable differentation.

    If instead they'll follow current queue division, ie Dungeons = levelling ones, Epic Dungeons = everything from lostmauth to FBI/mSP, that would be an exceedingly wide range in IL needed in my opinion.
    The fact that you are doing "epic trials" that goes from nDemo to mSVA makes me think the 2nd case is how you set up things, and I believe it'll cause much discontent.

    Short version: make the random queues categories somewhat omogeneous in terms of IL needed, say 2-3k of range, or something like that. (think someone aready said somethin like that in a earlier post)

    And if i may point out a personal concern: lately i feel like there's a lack of middleground dungeons between T2 (etos/egwd) and T3 (FBI etc). CN before you reworked orcus sort of accomplished that role, even if it was listed as same IL of eToS. And yes there eDemo, but frankly it's not enough.

  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User

    So alt Tanks and DC-s won't que for this type, therefore we will still lack of support classes in these queus. ?

    Uhm...what's your issue with mSP and DCs? I like running mSP as a DC - the reason I don't do it more often is because the rewards from mSP are a HAMSTERing HAMSTER. but that's equally true for all classes.
    Hoping for improvements...
  • slyef#6396 slyef Member Posts: 33 Arc User
    edited September 2017
    No.... just no.

    Maybe you're trying to revive public Q, but this causes just so many issues.

    1) It's a huge nerf to people who are not ready to run FBI/SP/Sva. You want to bring your low ILVL friend to do new and challenging content, or for gearing up. But since you can't random q it, they get no AD.

    2) Running MSP with an undergeared group, let alone with an unoptimal composition, just feels like drawing the short stick, (5k AD+rank 5 enchant for 1h+ run, if it even succeeds at all, WORTH IT). You get also punished if you try to leave (Wasted time, + time penalty). Having to q for something random between an elol (quick) and MSP (can be clean and short with good players, or very long and painful), is not okay and it's going to scare people away.

    3) There's no incentive to run t1/t2 dungeons on alts with friends now, Oh well, back to praying duties I guess. And Isuppose I can get more friends to dump their guild and join me for t3 farm then.


    4) If I ever q for Skirmish, I wonder where it would take me ? to content where I got countless headaches to acquire the gear I wanted (Hello PoM/IG/Throne) ? Or content where everything dies when I click on it ?

    5) No flexibility. When we get stuck on a dungeon I like to tell whoever i'm running with 'Hey I got X class/Y Friend and I feel it fits really well against this boss', then some of us would just swap toons and there we go, problem solved. Forced group composition and role mismatch are an issue there (lacking a buffer role, and some builds not recognised for what they are)


    6) With the new refinement system, we're getting nerfed, and yet you're expecting us to pug TONG ? People at this point just don't care for 5k extra AD, but saving 2+ hours helps.

    7) In the end, if you want AD you'll just farm salvage like crazy, farm ininteresting content or risk waisting a loooot of time.

    8) There's little reason to use random Q for epic trials, each of them has a specific purpose so it doesn't really make a sense. The idea of 'Hey, I'll q for a trial and look for which pops first' never occured to most of us. The rewards/difficulty ratio if you don't have a key for these is still abysmal for SVA (probably one of the reasons why I never do it except for the weekly or if a friend needs it, Or is because I feel like I get HAMSTER whenever I help by bringing a support class I struggled to do the campaign with so they can get loot and I don't ?).

    9) Keys and SH Mission. This system really doesn't favor them.



    As a side note, maybe you should reward people for using this feature and helping other players (like increased AD/loot ?, even more so if you get through difficult content), and not punish them for choosing to be effective with the current system
  • My 2 cents - I really, really think there should be separate tiers for epic content (at the moment I'm mainly thinking dungeons) instead of "all epic dungeons except the hardest" and "the hardest content". Take an example from other successful MMOs.

    For example there could be a queue for random "Malabog's / Validanra / Lostmauth" another queue for "Spider / Cragmire / Gray Wolf / Castle Never" and lastly "Fangbreakers / Spellplague" - each could have a different tiered reward of Seals (but I'd say still keep the same RAD reward).
  • chemjeffchemjeff Member Posts: 544 Arc User
    edited September 2017
    I am skeptical of this idea. If I participate in this at all, it would only be with my DC, and then only if I enable a full healbot spec on that DC for the really lowbie groups.

    But if you do this, please make a more granular division on the dungeons that are eligible for each queue. Such as, for example:
    T1: MC, VT, ELOL
    T2: ETOS, EGWD, ECC, CN
    T3: FBI, MSP
    T4: T9G

    Do NOT have people who are technically eligible for FBI/MSP be placed in the same queue as MC/VT. The lower tier dungeons are training grounds where you learn mastery over your character. If, the moment you are eligible for this queue, you are placed into FBI, it will lead to a whole lot of frustration. (And, by the way, exploits, as people will "do what it takes" to get their AD, since you're cutting off the other sources of dungeon AD.) Not because those players haven't met the requirements, but because they haven't been through the training regimen of the lower-tier dungeons needed to achieve a level of mastery that is necessary for the higher-tier dungeons.

    Incidentally, it would also be nice to update the dungeon roles, since none of the roles explicitly take buffing into account, and buffing is such a huge part of the game especially at the higher-end dungeons. So make it explicit that each random group needs not only 1 tank and 1 healer, but also 1 buffer. The roles don't have to be mutually exclusive - DC can have both roles of healer and buffer, GF can have both roles of tank and buffer - but there ought to be one present in some capacity. Only then will you have the reasonable possibility of random groups who are technically eligible for higher-end dungeons like FBI/MSP actually standing a chance of finishing it.
  • jumpingmorksjumpingmorks Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 876 Arc User

    I don't know if this has been brought up or not yet...

    But... aside from the AD discussions going on... @asterdahl your second point on the first page:
    "Reduce burnout from running the same queue ad nauseum by introducing variety."

    Umm... well sure everyone runs the same thing over and over...

    But you do realize that there are three dungeons that were removed at Mod 6... and STILL aren't brought back.
    The community has been asking for these for months.. if not years.....

    Then there are the 8 leveling dungeons... that USED to have epic versions... and they could be made into master versions...

    So that's what??? 14 added dungeons to possibly run???

    Why is Cryptic being so down right stubborn about bringing these dungeons back?

    Throne of Idris... was the first epic dungeon I ran with friends in Neverwinter... and we had a blast! We failed because we didn't know the game or the mechanics... but it was FUN!!!!

    I couldn't agree with this more.
  • dairyzeusdairyzeus Member Posts: 304 Arc User
    The specific dungeon chest key issue that was brought up is an excellent one. One of the main reasons I only run etos and fbi these days are because they are the dungeons I have keys for.

    Those dungeons also always contain unbound loot, whereas many of the earlier dungeon always contain bound loot (mala, VT, ELoL, CN). I never run dungeons with bound loot anymore as I have gotten far too many decent price drops that I can do nothing with. I even have 20+ VT keys remaining that I'll never use for this very reason.

    Forcing me to run a dungeon with bound loot, that I don't have a key for will never be worth the rough AD bonus you're listing.

    I think these 2 issues need to be addressed before implementing something like this. Mainly, why don't all dungeons have unbound loot?
  • kopros666kopros666 Member Posts: 52 Arc User
    I'm going strait forward to suggestions (some of 'em already been mentioned)

    A. Current queue system remains with these changes
    1. Epic trials provide now 2x daily reward 3k rad
    2. Kessel's Retreat & Shores of Tuern are correctly listed under "skirmishes"
    3. Leveling dungeons (CT, simple tos etc) reward boa rp and random legacy transmutes - No rad, to keep bots away
    4. Return of dungeons that were taken after mod6 (Throne of Idris, PK etc). Bigger pool of dungeon choices, more fun for all. Rare chance for boa preserv. wards/coals in dungeon chests, so players catch up with upcoming r14s changes.
    5. (very optional) 1 daily reward per unique dungeon/skirmish/trial (in total 2x daily rewards per category). So if one runs 2 etos, gets 4.5k rad, but if one runs 1 etos and 1 TonG, gets 2x4.5k rad

    B. New random queue system
    1. Players get additional rad rewards (except baby leveling dungeons)/ boa goodies (like event transmutes/p.wards)
    2. 4 dungeon categories: baby dungeons (CT etc - no rad here) - T1 dungeons (elol, VT, MC) - T2 dungeons (Egwd, etos, ecc, cn) - T3 dungeons (FBI, mSP, TonG) + 2 skirmish categories, T1 (master of hunt, dread, tuern, kessel, pom, throne) and T2 (IG + 12.b's skirmish)
    3. When players randomly queue, they choose a role as dps/healer/tank.
    4. No leaver penalty, or adjusted penalty to 5 mins.

    So new system is added, current system remains as is with some modification- all are happy, more content is played and bots get out of baby dungeons.
  • ravenskyaravenskya Member Posts: 1,891 Arc User
    Here is my issue with this:

    My guild, and group of friends - are extremely healer/tank heavy. To run with my friends we private queue everything just to be able to play together. Many times we run two GF's and 3 healers, or we'll take a DPS with us. We already have our own form of a random queue if we have enough people playing dps to public queue. we click all of the dungeons that everyone can get into (this means we CAN'T queue for FBI or MSPC because not everyone has them unlocked) we also don't queue for VT because the rewards are garbage.

    So doing either of these won't net us our daily AD because we want to play with our friends?

    My friends that can't get into all of the dungeons can't get AD from running the ones that they can?

    My suggestion to keep your hornets nest of a player base that you keep kicking happy:

    Leave the current AD from private, solo and public queue as is - that way someone who can just do eToS can still public queue for that dungeon without the fear of getting sucked into eGWD - and still get AD credit for it.

    I'm totally fine with you removing the AD from a level 70 running 3 man dungeons. But I am not okay with you hosing over the people who are progressing but haven't hit the bar yet.

    If you want people to run a wider variety of dungeons, make them equally lucrative - VT has the worst drops in the game. I hate that dungeon, you get seals and 2K worth of salvage. Not even worth the time when I can run an eLoL just as fast and get seals, salvage an overload and an enchant. MSPC has junk for rewards when I can run an FBI and not only get rank 8's but also enough VB to make another key - and FBI is easier.

    Consider splitting the Malabogs-eLoL into one queue and eToS up into another queue.

    For PS4 you might want to move shores and kessels under skirmishes where they belong so that we get proper AD credit and don't queue in for a dungeon and end up in a skirmish.

    to sum up:
    -Leave AD for private, solo, pug as it currently is - then give bonus AD for running in the random queue.
    -Reduce the leaver penalty to 10 min max and make sure it doesn't hit you if you disconnect or decline the queue.
    -make sure vote to kick still works for AFK people - I'd hate to get a leaver penalty just because someone is AFK and we can't go through a door.
    -Make the garbage dungeons have better loot (VT, MSPC) so we don't feel like we are getting hosed when we get sucked into them.
    Founding Member of "Wrong Side of the Stronghold"
    Ravenskya - TR / Krisha Chaos - OP / Waffles - GF / Dex Domitor - HR
    Becky the trendy GWF - GWF / Too Toasty - SW / Falcor - DC / Morrigan - CW / Sir Didymus - OP

  • soundoffury#1455 soundoffury Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    This is a terrible idea - it seems more like you're punishing newer players (who can't get into the high end content) or preventing people from running alts. The people who need the dungeon bonus AD the MOST are the new and low level players! High end characters are running high end content for the drop rewards not the AD. 36K rough astral wall doesn't mean anything to them.

    The idea of a random queue is a good idea - but not like this. Make it something optional. Something to run if you're bored and don't know what you want to run. PUG random - get in, done! But if you're trying to farm a certain dungeon (like EGWD for me) then I don't want to waste my time running a random and then queueing up for EGWD after that. I don't have time for that. This is a really stupid idea.
    Brixian Wynn - TR | Lasagna - DC | Rionach - GF ... and some other classes I'm ignoring
  • volkihar#6493 volkihar Member Posts: 36 Arc User

    asterdahl said:

    In addition to team size requirements, any role requirements are also enforced. For instance, in order to queue for Random: Epic Dungeon your group must have no more than 3 DPS, 1 healer and 1 tank.


    These roles really don't work right.
    A devoted cleric can be a healer or dps
    A paladin can be a tank or healer
    A GWF has a dps and tank build(although i doubt people use that one)
    A hunter/ranger has a dsp and buff play style
    these are just a few of the options I've seen people play

    1) How does the random then determine the requirements properly?
    2) There are people that play a buff/debuff build but that is not currently listed as a requirement. So where does the random place those people?


    I'm a person that plays with un-orthodox builds, which you cannot find on the web. Under a random that build is a big unknown to people using the 3 standard builds of dps/healer/tank. I know there are others out there like me that do this as well.

    Example I made a GWF sentinel build(tank). Its missing something to really be able to tank and draw a boss to it. Maybe it needs a class feature like the pally has where others dmg builds threat for it. And if something like this were added to the GWF sentinel, and guardian fighter, or others then you have a definate tank marker the game can use.

    I think if there were markers people could use in the selection of the powers, then they could know how the game is classifying them. Take a paladin, you have 3 feat paths, one is dps, one appears tank, and other healer. There is nothing in the game that says you are a paladin tank. I cannot even inspect a person all I see is oath bound paladin. I can't know if that person is a dps, tank, or healer...so how does the game know this?

    Paladin is tank when is Oath of Protection, and healer when is Oath of Devotion. The only viable build in both path is Justice/light. There's not a tank or healer path cause they're broken and nobody use it. You can't queue as healer if you're Protection with prism or beacon of hope as example.

  • havocenes#3195 havocenes Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    This is such an abhorrently bad idea.
    First, you will be locking AD rewards away from new players, since they will not be able to join Epic Dungeon queues. Second, you will be severely HAMSTER over people who play builds that do not follow their role as established by the game (dps DCs, templocks, healadinds, etc). And lastly, you will be FORCING players to run content they are not willing to run.
  • ultimatefgt123ultimatefgt123 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 96 Arc User
    edited September 2017
    This is a terrible idea.

    This should be an option for bonus extra ad on top of your daily bonus ad rewards only.

    No one seems to be mentioning that dungeon ilvls minimum requirements are way to low for the recent content.

    If you want a true representation of what ilvls are required for content, you devs need to be in game and monitoring lfg/private channels..

    For example tong is 14k+ and even at 14k some groups are hit or miss. Fbi would have severe difficulty at 12k without x2 dc group. Msva was another did not finish unless 14k+

    Random queues would need drastically higher minimum ilvls to guarantee completion, (which negates the helping the newbie idea).

    Due to the fluid nature of certain builds for certain classes, You need to allow players to queue up for certain roles rather than class.. Tank, heal, support (buff/debuff), dps. Got a buff/dps gf queue up as support. Got a templock queue up as heal. Pure buff dc q as support only. This would allow people who want to queue quickly to q as tank or heal over dps or support. Have the role clearly defined at start of dungeon so people know what their role is (no sneaking in as tank trs for example).

    <b class="Bold">Again want to highlight you are trying to fix a symptom rather than the cause... If you had spent all the development hours on a) bug fixing b) class balance and c) dungeon rewards/time rate - you probably wouldn't have to come up with this bollocks.</b>

    Devs need to ask themselves the question - If not enough DCs are available for Queues to pop and every lfg is asking for 2x DCs per group.. what is the problem here?

    If the only comp viable for running end game content requires 1 Healing DC 1 DPS and 3x Buffs (DC/OP/GF).. there are some balance issues that need to be addressed that are probably related to bug fixing.. (power sharing mentioned much?).
  • beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User
    cthon said:

    I just glanced through the random queue post. It doesn't seem like an apocalyptic nerf to me? You can create and queue your own group, you just all have to qualify for the dungeon/skirms in the queue group, right? The verbiage states:

    "For instance, in order to queue for Random: Epic Dungeon your group must have no more than 3 DPS, 1 healer and 1 tank."

    It also states that you can potentially earn more than you currently can? Sounds like it just prevents people from finding super quick dungeons to speed run to generate AD and salvage, or private queuing level 12 dungeons just to get AD.

    If you can't handle ultimate end game content, why are you queuing for it to make your daily dungeon/skirm AD? Sounds like it's a time net/net to me. Harder dungeon with more AD reward takes longer, easier dungeons with less ad rewards can be run faster, you just don't make as much, so you can hit 'em again to supplement with your salvage scenario?

    Doesn't seem too terrible? Honestly, not being sarcastic about the AD dungeon queues, I'll read up more as time allows.

    @cthon Replying here because it's more appropriate.

    The problem you seem to have glossed over is that if you don't qualify for something like MSP, you can't get daily AD from queuing for content that you do qualify for either. And if you qualify but still can't handle it, the queue may place you there anyway, wasting your time and everyone else's, or giving you a penalty for quitting.

    Or you're understanding it but don't feel having to run multiple Lostmauths in order to get more salvage (which I might remind you requires keys) because of the lack of bonus if you don't take your chances random queuing is not a problem.

    Guild Leader - The Lords of Light

    Neverwinter Census 2017

    All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
  • oldtimer#7525 oldtimer Member Posts: 141 Arc User
    Do not, i repeat, DO NOT in any way shape or form take away the ability to earn RAD from any dungeon/skirmish as it stands now. If anything is to be done with the amount of RAD you can obtain with the current system it should be increased without changing the way it works. And don't even try with the *but bots might leech leveling dungeons/skirmishes* - f**k off with that bs.

    No one asked for random queue. If you want to add it as a separate source for RAD and/or other rewards ( because that is the only reason anyone would ever use it ) then fine but DO NOT enforce this piece of garbage on the player base.

    More ways to make RAD however you choose - Good.
    More rewards from dungeons/skirmishes in general - Good.
    More rewards in trials - Good.
    Decreasing anything related to rewards anywhere - F**k no are you dense? Whoever comes up with these moronic ideas should be canned
  • ravenskyaravenskya Member Posts: 1,891 Arc User
    @asterdahl Can we get a Dev in here to just answer the question of:

    If we DONT use the random queue, will we still get the regular dungeon/skirmish AD, or is that now only available in the random queue.
    Founding Member of "Wrong Side of the Stronghold"
    Ravenskya - TR / Krisha Chaos - OP / Waffles - GF / Dex Domitor - HR
    Becky the trendy GWF - GWF / Too Toasty - SW / Falcor - DC / Morrigan - CW / Sir Didymus - OP

  • chemjeffchemjeff Member Posts: 544 Arc User
    The more comments I read on this, the more I conclude it is a terrible idea.

    1. You're making it needlessly difficult for players to get their SH shards.
    2. You're putting people into queues for which they don't have the requisite chest keys.
    3. You're forcing people to work together in a dungeon that they aren't yet ready for. Being ready for a dungeon is more than just item level. For the harder dungeons, it requires a certain mastery of one's character. Putting MC and MSP in the same queue is ridiculous.
    4. Moreover, you're forcing us to work together with complete strangers to earn AD from dungeons. I don't mind helping strangers, but I am going to vastly prefer helping out my guildies or my friends before helping those to whom I have no connection. All the time in our guild, the higher-level members will help carry lower-level members through dungeons in order to help them get their gear and their AD. Let us continue to do that.
  • beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User
    chemjeff said:

    Moreover, you're forcing us to work together with complete strangers to earn AD from dungeons.

    This is a misconception, and I for one would appreciate if people didn't continue hitting on it as a talking point because it's drawing attention away from the real issues.
    Guild Leader - The Lords of Light

    Neverwinter Census 2017

    All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
  • fatninja144477fatninja144477 Member Posts: 15 Arc User
    Am i reading this right that currently with this new que set up that, if you don't have FBI unlocked you will not be able to que in the random master que list? If i am wrong please correct me. Because as i see it this as the most important issue not the AD. this makes it impossible for any new player at 70 to que in to dungeons if they don't have the ability to have players to pull then threw the content. This game was already very un alt friendly with the Campaigns but now it turns all alts in to basically mules unless you do nothing but campaign every day on them.
    Valina Darksbane, CW 70
    That Guy You Know, OP 70
    Main, Valora GF 70 14.3k
    That Guy who hastes, DC 70
    Chopper, GWF 70
    Hel, SW 70
    Sora, HR 70
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