Well I play buffing CW, not going to be left out in mod 12 with or without the changes. This is not about me being more or less viable. I play most of the time in premade parties, friends, anyway.
The main problem is that the game is not as interesting as it could be. How do you build a DPS toon nowadays? cap everything you can and stack power. How do you build a party? Take all the powersharing you can and add a GWF/HR. Everyone has so much stats that there is an entire portion of the game left out. Does anyone consider slotting skills and items for reducing incoming damage? No Does anyone look for utilities like CC when fighting mobs? No Does anyone need an off-tank, an off healer? No Does anyone need to follow boss mechanics? No daily spamming fixes everything Does anyone need different then meta DPS enchants, and debuffing ones? No
Well there you go. With less stats the game will be better in my not so humble opinion. I don't see people even considering that. I see them only calculating how much stats they will loose and what they do now may not be as viable anymore.
There are viable concerns, but very few people are threatening to quit because of those.
Probably a side-topic, but to me it sounds like you haven't had a chance to play other support classes beside MoF CW. Before making a generalized claim, please take a careful look on what other support classes do first in game.
As a good example, if you look at classes such as DC, you will find most of encounters will provide: 1) buff teammates, debuff mobs 2) reduce incoming damage from mobs while increasing amount of damage mobs receive from your party.
So let's go over your claims: Does anyone consider slotting skills and items for reducing incoming damage? Yes. Pretty obvious isn't it? Does anyone look for utilities like CC when fighting mobs? Yes. Majority of CWs I played with still use icy terrain and Conduit of Ice Does anyone need an off-tank, an off healer? Probably no. But majority of 5-men dungeons designed to have single tank and single heal. Does anyone need to follow boss mechanics? Yes. Try bring Orcus down in T9G without following mechanics and see what happens. Try beating down Drupi in FBI and ignore Call of Winter. Does anyone need different then meta DPS enchants, and debuffing ones? There is no absolute 'meta' that applies to all classes in this game. Depends on what class and what role you play, you will probably need to choose the one that fits the most.
So please stop voicing such generalized claims without a proof.
> @metalicum1 said: > > Well I play buffing CW, not going to be left out in mod 12 with or without the changes. This is not about me being more or less viable. I play most of the time in premade parties, friends, anyway. > > The main problem is that the game is not as interesting as it could be. How do you build a DPS toon nowadays? cap everything you can and stack power. How do you build a party? Take all the powersharing you can and add a GWF/HR. > Everyone has so much stats that there is an entire portion of the game left out. > Does anyone consider slotting skills and items for reducing incoming damage? No > Does anyone look for utilities like CC when fighting mobs? No > Does anyone need an off-tank, an off healer? No > Does anyone need to follow boss mechanics? No daily spamming fixes everything > Does anyone need different then meta DPS enchants, and debuffing ones? No > > Well there you go. With less stats the game will be better in my not so humble opinion. I don't see people even considering that. I see them only calculating how much stats they will loose and what they do now may not be as viable anymore. > > There are viable concerns, but very few people are threatening to quit because of those. ====================================================================================================
I guess that I must live and play on a magical island where we don't have those "problems", a Neverwinter utopia? As they are not a viable concern to me...
1.) Yes.. Dps stats are pretty cookie cutter, but they make sense. Reach 60% RI> reach 100% Crit Chance> Stack Power>add a rotation. The rotation is completely up to you. Some are more efficient but what you use is YOUR choice.
2.) I slot skills that reduce the groups incoming damage, increase damage resistance, or decrease the enemies damage output very often. Just quickly off the top of my head; Astral shield on my DC, Circle of Power on my OP, Knights Valor on my GF, Commanding Shot on my HR, Ray of Enfeeblement on my CW, and I am sure that there are more I'm forgetting.
3.) Yes CC powers are great! I routinely use; Icy Terrain/Arcane Singularity/Oppressive Force/Furious Immolation on my CW, Plant Growth on my HR, Smoke Bomb on my TR, .....
4.) Yup, Tanks are always in the group, sometimes 2, and we run with Healadins, Templocks, and Virtuos Clerics all the time.
5.) Yes boss mechanics are followed, no spamming of dailies is going to magically help you beat in mspc.
6.) What? You lost me chief. Is there a third type of enchant? Most provide a % of extra damage and/or a debuff... Ie; The Frost on my DC=Debuff, Terror on my GF=Debuff, Dread on my HR=Debuff, Lightning on my CW...
You are always entitled to your "not so humble opinion" but I guess that I am just not seeing an issue. For good or bad, people are going to play the way that they want to play no matter what. They will always find a way to play without X Role in a misguided attempt to shave a minute or two off of a run.
To say that the game needs to be nerfed in any way in an effort to force players to play as you see fit is just self-serving bs.
You know what they say about opinions though... That is just my not so humble opinion
I'm by no means the smartest Rocket Surgeon on the block.
That being said I feel that a smarter fix for the "issue" would be a combination of any or all of... 1.) Leave Bonding uptime and percentage as is but make bonding companions immune to player buffs. 2.) Bring Augment Companions to within 50-75% effectiveness of a Bonding set up (yes a reduced %, they never die). 3.) Make Eldritch Runestones give their % based stat share in either offensive or defensive slots.
I feal that changes such as those above would be more palatable to the player base and keep folks from leaving.
> Well I play buffing CW, not going to be left out in mod 12 with or without the changes. This is not about me being more or less viable. I play most of the time in premade parties, friends, anyway.
>
> The main problem is that the game is not as interesting as it could be. How do you build a DPS toon nowadays? cap everything you can and stack power. How do you build a party? Take all the powersharing you can and add a GWF/HR.
> Everyone has so much stats that there is an entire portion of the game left out.
> Does anyone consider slotting skills and items for reducing incoming damage? No
> Does anyone look for utilities like CC when fighting mobs? No
> Does anyone need an off-tank, an off healer? No
> Does anyone need to follow boss mechanics? No daily spamming fixes everything
> Does anyone need different then meta DPS enchants, and debuffing ones? No
>
> Well there you go. With less stats the game will be better in my not so humble opinion. I don't see people even considering that. I see them only calculating how much stats they will loose and what they do now may not be as viable anymore.
>
> There are viable concerns, but very few people are threatening to quit because of those.
I guess that I must live and play on a magical island where we don't have those "problems", a Neverwinter utopia?
As they are not a viable concern to me...
1.) Yes.. Dps stats are pretty cookie cutter, but they make sense. Reach 60% RI> reach 100% Crit Chance> Stack Power>add a rotation. The rotation is completely up to you. Some are more efficient but what you use is YOUR choice.
2.) I slot skills that reduce the groups incoming damage, increase damage resistance, or decrease the enemies damage output very often. Just quickly off the top of my head; Astral shield on my DC, Circle of Power on my OP, Knights Valor on my GF, Commanding Shot on my HR, Ray of Enfeeblement on my CW, and I am sure that there are more I'm forgetting.
3.) Yes CC powers are great! I routinely use; Icy Terrain/Arcane Singularity/Oppressive Force/Furious Immolation on my CW, Plant Growth on my HR, Smoke Bomb on my TR, .....
4.) Yup, Tanks are always in the group, sometimes 2, and we run with Healadins, Templocks, and Virtuos Clerics all the time.
5.) Yes boss mechanics are followed, no spamming of dailies is going to magically help you beat in mspc.
You are always entitled to your "not so humble opinion" but I guess that I am just not seeing an issue. For good or bad, people are going to play the way that they want to play no matter what. They will always find a way to play without X Role in a misguided attempt to shave a minute or two off of a run.
To say that the game needs to be nerfed in any way in an effort to force players to play as you see fit is just self-serving bs.
You know what they say about opinions though... That is just my not so humble opinion
It's true we might be playing in a different world. Last time I checked nobody ever mentioned wanting to run with a Warlock or Rogue, but I've seen thousands of people spamming chats to get more DCs into their runs. I've never ever seen anyone wanting more crowd control or any of such utility. And yes I can consciously play the game less efficiently by slotting worse powers, but's that not a good game design argument. I can do whatever I want technically, I can run without armor or without any companions, sure I can, but I am not playing the game anymore as the very essence, to use your best ability and knowledge to win, is gone.
You are absolutely right, I want to shape the game to the state I like it more. Just like everyone else here. There are 14 pages of people wanting to shape the changes and the game to what they want.
(btw and this is true, I've played probably hundreds of public and private runs of MSVA, and never ever once, if it wasn't my personal group, anyone used the runes boss mechanic. Never ever ever. Why? Because it was inefficient, it was better to stay in one big pile and push buttons)
> @bomber#0573 said: > I'm by no means the smartest Rocket Surgeon on the block. > > That being said I feel that a smarter fix for the "issue" would be a combination of any or all of... > 1.) Leave Bonding uptime and percentage as is but make bonding companions immune to player buffs. > 2.) Bring Augment Companions to within 50-75% effectiveness of a Bonding set up (yes a reduced %, they never die). > 3.) Make Eldritch Runestones give their % based stat share in either offensive or defensive slots. > > I feal that changes such as those above would be more palatable to the player base and keep folks from leaving.
this would be good. I would even take it a step further and say, why not make the other runestones give buffs to other stats like deflect severity, crit severity, damage resistance, or lifesteal like some one else mentioned. if there is a serious need to make them desirable again try something a little different instead of making them the new bondings while nerfing bondings themselves.
this would be good. I would even take it a step further and say, why not make the other runestones give buffs to other stats like deflect severity, crit severity, damage resistance, or lifesteal like some one else mentioned. if there is a serious need to make them desirable again try something a little different instead of making them the new bondings while nerfing bondings themselves.
Companions have lifesteal and regen (*spit*) stats, which is why those could actually work.
The other stats you mentioned would not unless companions were redesigned to have those stats. So this is easy change vs. hard change. Asking for hard change, you might eventually get it if it was a good idea, but it could easily take years.
> A Rank 12 Eldritch currently only provides a 12% Augmentation Boost if loaded in Defense slot. You also don't get a +840 buff and only a +700 if loaded in Offence but then you loose the Augmentation."
Yes. But with the proposed changes and fully upgraded, it will be 25.5%.
Yea but if your talking a Eldritch Rank 14 they only provide augmentation boost if your companion has the available DEFENSE Runestone slot's available. If your augment has 3 offense slots you'll only gain the +700 if Rank 12 or the buff for the rank of Runestone you have available; realize only a few Augments have 2 defense slots and but a very limited few have 3 -- like maybe 1 possibly 2 in future.
So Augments may be more viable alternative companions for a few classes depending upon their build choices or the challenge their facing; but I suspect a majority will mostly use Strikers, Leaders, Controllers or Defender companions with R7-R14 Bondings still.
> A Rank 12 Eldritch currently only provides a 12% Augmentation Boost if loaded in Defense slot. You also don't get a +840 buff and only a +700 if loaded in Offence but then you loose the Augmentation."
Yes. But with the proposed changes and fully upgraded, it will be 25.5%.
Yea but if your talking a Eldritch Rank 14 they only provide augmentation boost if your companion has the available DEFENSE Runestone slot's available. If your augment has 3 offense slots you'll only gain the +700 if Rank 12 or the buff for the rank of Runestone you have available; realize only a few Augments have 2 defense slots and but a very limited few have 3 -- like maybe 1 possibly 2 in future.
So Augments may be more viable alternative companions for a few classes depending upon their build choices or the challenge their facing; but I suspect a majority will mostly use Strikers, Leaders, Controllers or Defender companions with R7-R14 Bondings still.
I take it you missed the response that eldritch will receive the +25.5% stats in either slot.
Creating a product that encourages customers to spend real money on elements to get an expected result and then degrading those elements and forcing customers to pursue new elements sounds an awful lot like fraud. I am sure you are confident that your TOS are a sufficient shield, but I sincerely hope someone successfully sues you guys one day.
Me, I am probably just going to quit your game. I am tired of investing my time and money just for you guys to completely change the meta on a whim and make all my hard work for naught.
For the record, I am fairly happy with the current state of the game and was planning on saving a few hundred dollars for black Friday to spend on my character. I will not be spending anymore money on a product that may decide to completely gut something I spent hard earned money on.
You can't go around selling people stuff that has a known value and then strip that value away after sale.
What a stupid thing to change eldritch runestones.
It's simple math, they are useless, no matter what you do. Let's say you have an augment with six brutals rank 14, that's 6x700 power, plus 3 empowered runestones rank 14 is 2000 power each. In an augment you get 100%, so total power increase would be 10200.
If you instead of 6000 power choose eldritch runestones, you would only get 76.5% on top of 4200 power.
Am I missing something here?
It's funny though that cryptic gives in to complaints from people who don't want to spend money on bondings.
I don't want to spend money on anything, can you nerf orange mounts now?!
1. Mr. Sears, thank you for your contribution to an enjoyable Mod 12. Thank you also for posting this information. 2. Julia, as you deem necessary, please step in and ensure Mr. Sears has customer feedback and sentiment as he continues to make decisions regarding these changes. I would hate for Mr. Sears, a relatively new systems designer to Neverwinter, to alienate his customer base so early in his tenure with Neverwinter by not legitimately considering, and responding to, the concerns and sentiment voiced by the community. You have helped the community navigate such difficult changes in the past and I thank you for your continued advocacy on our behalf. 3. Changes intended to simplify the refinement system are welcome. Thank you. 4. If you insist on moving forward with the changes to bonding runestones, please tell us what changes in the near future (i.e. before year end 2017) will address the concerns raised in this thread. For example, if dungeons like Tomb of the Nine Gods were designed using an assumption that bonding runestones function as they currently operate, please explain your intended outcome of these changes related to that design assumption or if near term future changes will address that design assumption. 5. Please realize that your insistence moving forward with these changes without modification supporting a clear customer sentiment will negatively impact customer satisfaction. I, for example, do not feel the changes to the Lostmauth set, another game element in which every customer dedicated a significant investment, left me with a positive customer satisfaction experience. I know that Cryptic believes every customer is important and existing customers are not disposable for future customers. The acquisition of new customers is often more costly than retaining existing customers, in my opinion. 6. To the customer satisfaction sentiment highlighted in #5, Mr. Sears I would highlight Mr. Gutschera's interaction with the customer base on proposed weapon enchantment changes as a standard to be met in regards to customer interaction in regards to these proposed changes. 7. Thank you for your commitment to transparency with your customers and your consideration of our concerns as legitimate and actionable, as opposed to viewing your customers as mindless cattle who do not have a passion for the success of Neverwinter.
As I read this post the only thing I could disagree with was the statement that Cryptic believes that every customer is Important and valued. Since as a player of over 3 years and having spent over $3000 on this game I found that my 2 posts from last night that in no way disparaged anyone or Cryptic were moved to very obscure threads. This kind of treatment of long time high spending customers says the opposite.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
With the old augment meta, the most common augments had a defense slot, so people tended to roll with an Eldritch enchant in there for another small boost to offensive stats, rather than a boost to a defensive stat they didn't need. But this was more around level 60 stat curves, very different game. At level 70 with an augment meta, the Black Dragon Ioun Stone was de rigueur for PvE.
And nevermind the meta where you slotted Bonding runes in your augment because they were cheaper than Empowered and gave more stats. Oh days gone by.
The main problem is that the game is not as interesting as it could be. How do you build a DPS toon nowadays? cap everything you can and stack power. How do you build a party? Take all the powersharing you can and add a GWF/HR. Everyone has so much stats that there is an entire portion of the game left out. Does anyone consider slotting skills and items for reducing incoming damage? No **Incorrect. Break The Spirit, Astral Shield are DC tools used quite frequently. No other class really has the damage reduction capability. HR's, Healadins, GF's and SW's have some, but not much. Does anyone look for utilities like CC when fighting mobs? No ***Correct. Because most mobs at end game are damn near CC immune. Does anyone need an off-tank, an off healer? No ***Correct. Why should they? One should be enough in a diverse party. Does anyone need to follow boss mechanics? No daily spamming fixes everything ***Incorrect. Try spamming on the bosses in T3 dungeons and watch yourself die in no time flat. Does anyone need different then meta DPS enchants, and debuffing ones? No ***Correct. The rework on enchantments buffed their dps but did nothing for debuff or damage reduction so *shrugs*
Well there you go. With less stats the game will be better in my not so humble opinion. I don't see people even considering that. I see them only calculating how much stats they will loose and what they do now may not be as viable anymore.
***With less stats, dungeons end game wise will take much longer to run. For HAMSTER rewards. Not cool. No reason to do the dungeon and waste time on puny rewards when you can spend 10-15minutes and get the exact same rewards out of a T1/2
There are viable concerns, but very few people are threatening to quit because of those. ***People will quit when they've had enough. How many straws does it take to break the camel's back?
*smacks hands together* There. Fixed.
Varric the Cursed Dwarven cursed to be Tiefling CW Original Serenity Mostly Retired DC Tokarek Bearded Dwarven OP Tankadin JuiceHead Goofy Human GWF Member of H3llzWarriors and Limitless.
> @muckingfuppet said: > I've stuck with this game for years through thick and thin but if bondings are nerfed in shape way or form then I'm out, not all of us run with super mega groups that can kill bosses in seconds, I've put thousands of pounds into getting my character to where it is and now you want to take a massive part of that away from me but at the same time also expect me to put more money into your new system? you must be off your face to think this will work you are killing your owe game, if this was any other kind of business you would be bankrupt in a heartbeat, the problem is the world of mmo's isn't policed by any governing body so you just do as you please, if this was a company on the high street you would be sued to hell and back for miss selling, as I've said a simple and easy fix to this problem is to stop companions from receiving buffs from any outside source it's that simple the only reason to go through with this NERF is to force us to spend more cash, you guys at cryptic most think we are stupid
Couldn't AGREE more. They have taught all of us loyal, dedicated players who have invested thousands in their game, a VERY important lesson : We are all STUPID for having spent money on their game. We should join the ranks of free players, who just grind away to build "ok" characters, because no matter how much we SPEND to build a superior build, they are going to nerf it to make it useless eventually. But DON'T worry there will be other options for you to pour money into that will be equally useless when we max out. Thanks Cryptic for negating the last 6 months of my life in your game. Rather than create NEW content, or provide additional activities in this game, you consistently focus on making the challenging content less challenging (a la castle never), the drops more mundane, and the superior builds less effective with every mod. Rather than ADD good content, your focus is on making everything mediocre. Good plan. So you're not customer focused. Not even on the top tier players. You've received your last micro transaction from this player.
If 50% up-time on companion's gift is such a good idea, why not put 50% up-time on augment companions too? Spread the joy! Two years ago, 50% up-time would be acceptable because many people did not have bonding stones. But now, it's too late. Too many players have designed (expensively) their characters based on 100% up-time. Killing bonding stones will upset too many players, especially players with multiple characters. I am not switching all my characters (back) to augment companions. And I refuse to play only one character. 50% uptime on companion's gift is the end for me, and I am sure, for many other players too.
Well their are likely 5 - 10 good reasons.
Bondings give currently give a dual buff a +840 (not +700) like others and do this while also giving currently a 95% augment bonus per stone. Then on top of that bonding also grants the companion the buff of the runestone, enchantments, and gear on their direct 3 attack powers or 4 if you have the Lion; but then also extends that benefit to the player by a factor of almost 3x to the player at 70-85% uptime.
An Augment only Augments it does not also attack while then further extending 3x the benefit to the player; an augment doesn't even gain the augmentation boost from a bonding since it has no attack powers. So Augments should be 100% uptime so perhaps in future we'll see a few more using Augments depending on their builds, class or feat choices; but we'll still likely see a majority with bonding pets.
People say 50% uptime is unacceptable yet look how many worked hard to get their +5 Sudden Ring's from Underdark and still mostly use them today for 10s of benefit once every 30s or a 33% uptime. Still Bondings will still offer a clear 2 - 2.5x advantage over most runestones; most will quickly find that out on PREVIEW.
This I believe like some have stated will restore a little more balance to game while also allowing DPS to look for support classes to maximize their benefit. So it offer's players with different builds or classes a few more viable options not just a mandatory one size fit's all solution like it is today.
Seeing one player do 305 million damage in a dungeon, with maybe another at 50m, then one or two others at maybe 15-25m, and one player at 5m really isn't team work. So instead we might see perhaps the top player reduced to 235m, but the 2nd increased to 90m, with the third & fourth players doing 20-50m and the 5th level player perhaps 10-15m. The team still does about the same damage overall and it may take 1-4 minutes longer but it's a little more of a team dynamic.
Clearly the top end player here wouldn't also have any issues running solo in any campaign area and likely if he got all his enchantments to R14 or Weapon & Armor to Rank 13; he'd likely fit into a new top end damage dealer doing well above >450m damage if he re-ran the same dungeon with the same players geared the same while he previous had R12 Enchants.
It is bad enough that the freemium/micro transaction model already takes advantage of consumer psychology to milk more than tenfold the money from customers than a typical AAA game title. But to then change the meta of the game to negate most of that hard work and $$$ is especially slimy.
One day these companies will be viewed the same as rent to own stores and no interest mortgage companies for their predatory business models.
I stuck through the key change, but I see zero redeeming value in this change. I will not be spending time and money to completely revamp my companions. If this goes through it is good bye.
This change is done all wrong, BEFORE thinking about nerfing us you should take a deep look into the rewards that each dungeon is giving, only yesterday I got 2 Peridots from both chests in MSP, TWO fkn Peridots, so now with these nerfs the dungeon will become twice as long only to get the SAME 2 Peridots?!?! That's just wrong.
And you guys are grabbing the nerf hammer and putting it to the extreme, there's never a middle-ground with you and your 'quality of life' changes.
Well I can fully support this - most Epic Dungeons should have at least end game bosses perhaps even more Mini Bosses dropping a Peridoe or Aqua. Today only and end game boss will in one of maybe 20-25 runs maybe drop a peridoe and none of the Epic Chests except Tiamat or IG include maybe 1 or 2 refinement items. Only Tiamat can offer some of the rare or even Epic refinement items. They should include refinement items in most dungeons chests even if the chance of a higher drop item are more limited.
That is ONE thing I think has been so severely missing for far too long.
We fully understand how big of a topic this is which is why we wanted to get the details out early to get feedback on all of the changes. And feedback certainly has been given! Although these types of topics can get heated due to the passion players have for this game, it is a good thing to see such involvement and discussion from our player base.
There are valid points being brought up through out this discussion. Reading over all of this feedback, from multiple sources, has allowed us to take a look at different perspectives on the bonding issues. Bonding runestones do need an adjustment and we'd like to allow for other companion and runestone choices to not be so underwhelming compared to a bonding companion.
Many of the points brought forward by you is that a 50% up time changes too many dynamics which will drive many players to feeling that an augment pet is the only correct route to play. That is not our intention and not where we want the game to go.
We are going to switch the up time to being able to be 100% (cooldown and up time will match). This will be with the lowered percentages that we presented and seems like the best way to address many of the concerns while still bringing bonding power more in line with where it should be.
Also, we are going to look into switching the offensive effect of Eldritch Runestones to match the defensive effect, meaning that either slot will grant the stat gain (it does mean the AP functionality of the Eldritch Runestone offensive slot is going away). This allows players who would like to use an augment pet with Eldritch Runestones to have a choice in which augment pet to use.
The concerns on dungeon runs/difficulty in the game with any changes to bonding runestones is not unnoticed and something we have been paying attention to internally throughout all of this. We have been doing internal testing on this and look forward to feedback during preview on this very topic.
Thankyou so much, I won't like losing stats but I can live with that.
100% Uptime on Bondings and Eldritch providing their bonus whether in Offense and Defense is a great tweak. I can't speak for anyone else but I can work with these changes and feel like the playing field with Augments and Companions has been levelled fairly.
Dungeons are now just monotomous, tiresome and predictable. Run 20 t3's, use dragon keys and get nothing. Cryptic now wants us to spend a fortune on our characters to carry on doing this for no apparent reason, I dont think so. It was fun while it lasted but neverwinter has really now come to the end of the line. Best of luck to those of you who think things will improve, I can assure you all they wont.
My other prediction. Some will scream and yell about quitting. Those generally wont.
The pain will be when you log in a few weeks in and see no one online in your guild. They will start trying out other games and maybe in a group or maybe one by one they just drift off. I'm not sure how well they know the PS4 playerbase but it's a fickle crew. @ravenskya (I tried quoting you but the quote isn't showing..) this is in regards to you saying people might scream and yell about quitting but won't.
you are ps4 right? a lot of times the threats of leaving are false.. I don't think they are this time. key gate didn't make the ghost town coal gate did. I wasn't paying attention for mod 6 apparently there were ghost towns then too. but with coal gate. it was massive. there honestly were people in pe just giving away all their stuff. guilds lost mannnnny people. it was hard to get anything going. I don't know how many quit but it was a lot. This is worse than that.
Yes I'm PS4... and I agree. The key is that the PS4 people won't come here and scream that they are quitting - and that ones that do scream about it generally won't quit. But there will be a ton that do quit, silently. We lost roughly half of our guild after the key fiasco, none of them said "I quit" they just started playing something else and never came back. The numbers will be far higher than the people here screaming. You'll get the people that don't even know this is happening (most of PS4) and they will log in and figure out something is different, a guild mate might fill them in and when they realize they lost progress/viability in the game, they will just play something different. No screaming, no yelling... just quietly gone.
yeah I see what you're saying. that's true
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jumpingmorksMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 876Arc User
stat share reduction is still all bad, 100% uptime or not. I'll ask again, maybe with an answer this time, how and where are bondings over performing? I literally just did nsva as the only dps with 3x rank 12, and guess what happened? fail...to be fair storvald only had his last sliver of life left. I wonder how much life he would of had still with the proposed changes.
As a few people have stated after @noworries and before this post alone, power sharing being passed on to companions then buffed by companion bondings is just too OP. Yes, we love the stats they give but it needs to go for the same reason as using UD rings on companions had to go.
There will probably be a good few people who dislike this post but Augments had become trash, it reduced players options and forced those that wanted to use Augments to using Companions.
With the 100% uptime on companions and a reduction in the percentage of stats passed from bondings I feel this is a fair rebalance and not as it started, replacing one BiS item with another. It also addresses another concern some had that Augments with 3xDefense slots, there only being the one, the Bulette, ould be the ONLY option for the BiS players.
Like I said, I DON'T like losing stats, but there was a massive balance issue between Augments and Companions that had to be addressed at some point in some manner. So at the end of the day, personally, I can live with this change and can work with it. I can also understand that there will be those who will still be vehemently againts it.
Thank you for putting bondings back to 100% uptime, but I see what you did there, making people feel lucky to have bondings "only" nerfed by half.
I think increasing augments would be a good compliment to all this though. The obvious way would be giving augments increased % shared based on rank, but I think another way would be more interesting. How about allowing any gear equipped on an augment to transfer any special item features or procs to the character as if the item were equipped by the character themselves. This would give the character benefits from Underdark "sudden" and "rising" rings, EF res from SKT rings, special bonuses from Chult rings, etc., all as if the character were wearing them themselves.
I got an idea how about you reduce Conqueror GFs damage in mod 12b while your at it instead of waiting for mod 13.
Find me in game if you want and send me a domination/ gaunt invite. If you are good and im not busy ill play with you. Im not an elitist ill play with almost anyone.
Comments
Before making a generalized claim, please take a careful look on what other support classes do first in game.
As a good example, if you look at classes such as DC, you will find most of encounters will provide:
1) buff teammates, debuff mobs
2) reduce incoming damage from mobs while increasing amount of damage mobs receive from your party.
So let's go over your claims:
Does anyone consider slotting skills and items for reducing incoming damage? Yes. Pretty obvious isn't it?
Does anyone look for utilities like CC when fighting mobs? Yes. Majority of CWs I played with still use icy terrain and Conduit of Ice
Does anyone need an off-tank, an off healer? Probably no. But majority of 5-men dungeons designed to have single tank and single heal.
Does anyone need to follow boss mechanics? Yes. Try bring Orcus down in T9G without following mechanics and see what happens. Try beating down Drupi in FBI and ignore Call of Winter.
Does anyone need different then meta DPS enchants, and debuffing ones? There is no absolute 'meta' that applies to all classes in this game. Depends on what class and what role you play, you will probably need to choose the one that fits the most.
So please stop voicing such generalized claims without a proof.
>
> Well I play buffing CW, not going to be left out in mod 12 with or without the changes. This is not about me being more or less viable. I play most of the time in premade parties, friends, anyway.
>
> The main problem is that the game is not as interesting as it could be. How do you build a DPS toon nowadays? cap everything you can and stack power. How do you build a party? Take all the powersharing you can and add a GWF/HR.
> Everyone has so much stats that there is an entire portion of the game left out.
> Does anyone consider slotting skills and items for reducing incoming damage? No
> Does anyone look for utilities like CC when fighting mobs? No
> Does anyone need an off-tank, an off healer? No
> Does anyone need to follow boss mechanics? No daily spamming fixes everything
> Does anyone need different then meta DPS enchants, and debuffing ones? No
>
> Well there you go. With less stats the game will be better in my not so humble opinion. I don't see people even considering that. I see them only calculating how much stats they will loose and what they do now may not be as viable anymore.
>
> There are viable concerns, but very few people are threatening to quit because of those.
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I guess that I must live and play on a magical island where we don't have those "problems", a Neverwinter utopia?
As they are not a viable concern to me...
1.) Yes.. Dps stats are pretty cookie cutter, but they make sense. Reach 60% RI> reach 100% Crit Chance> Stack Power>add a rotation. The rotation is completely up to you. Some are more efficient but what you use is YOUR choice.
2.) I slot skills that reduce the groups incoming damage, increase damage resistance, or decrease the enemies damage output very often. Just quickly off the top of my head; Astral shield on my DC, Circle of Power on my OP, Knights Valor on my GF, Commanding Shot on my HR, Ray of Enfeeblement on my CW, and I am sure that there are more I'm forgetting.
3.) Yes CC powers are great! I routinely use; Icy Terrain/Arcane Singularity/Oppressive Force/Furious Immolation on my CW, Plant Growth on my HR, Smoke Bomb on my TR, .....
4.) Yup, Tanks are always in the group, sometimes 2, and we run with Healadins, Templocks, and Virtuos Clerics all the time.
5.) Yes boss mechanics are followed, no spamming of dailies is going to magically help you beat in mspc.
6.) What? You lost me chief. Is there a third type of enchant? Most provide a % of extra damage and/or a debuff...
Ie; The Frost on my DC=Debuff, Terror on my GF=Debuff, Dread on my HR=Debuff, Lightning on my CW...
You are always entitled to your "not so humble opinion" but I guess that I am just not seeing an issue. For good or bad, people are going to play the way that they want to play no matter what. They will always find a way to play without X Role in a misguided attempt to shave a minute or two off of a run.
To say that the game needs to be nerfed in any way in an effort to force players to play as you see fit is just self-serving bs.
You know what they say about opinions though... That is just my not so humble opinion
That being said I feel that a smarter fix for the "issue" would be a combination of any or all of...
1.) Leave Bonding uptime and percentage as is but make bonding companions immune to player buffs.
2.) Bring Augment Companions to within 50-75% effectiveness of a Bonding set up (yes a reduced %, they never die).
3.) Make Eldritch Runestones give their % based stat share in either offensive or defensive slots.
I feal that changes such as those above would be more palatable to the player base and keep folks from leaving.
I've never ever seen anyone wanting more crowd control or any of such utility.
And yes I can consciously play the game less efficiently by slotting worse powers, but's that not a good game design argument. I can do whatever I want technically, I can run without armor or without any companions, sure I can, but I am not playing the game anymore as the very essence, to use your best ability and knowledge to win, is gone.
You are absolutely right, I want to shape the game to the state I like it more. Just like everyone else here. There are 14 pages of people wanting to shape the changes and the game to what they want.
(btw and this is true, I've played probably hundreds of public and private runs of MSVA, and never ever once, if it wasn't my personal group, anyone used the runes boss mechanic. Never ever ever. Why? Because it was inefficient, it was better to stay in one big pile and push buttons)
[PS4] Alliance - House Stargaryen
> I'm by no means the smartest Rocket Surgeon on the block.
>
> That being said I feel that a smarter fix for the "issue" would be a combination of any or all of...
> 1.) Leave Bonding uptime and percentage as is but make bonding companions immune to player buffs.
> 2.) Bring Augment Companions to within 50-75% effectiveness of a Bonding set up (yes a reduced %, they never die).
> 3.) Make Eldritch Runestones give their % based stat share in either offensive or defensive slots.
>
> I feal that changes such as those above would be more palatable to the player base and keep folks from leaving.
this would be good. I would even take it a step further and say, why not make the other runestones give buffs to other stats like deflect severity, crit severity, damage resistance, or lifesteal like some one else mentioned. if there is a serious need to make them desirable again try something a little different instead of making them the new bondings while nerfing bondings themselves.
The other stats you mentioned would not unless companions were redesigned to have those stats. So this is easy change vs. hard change. Asking for hard change, you might eventually get it if it was a good idea, but it could easily take years.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
So Augments may be more viable alternative companions for a few classes depending upon their build choices or the challenge their facing; but I suspect a majority will mostly use Strikers, Leaders, Controllers or Defender companions with R7-R14 Bondings still.
Me, I am probably just going to quit your game. I am tired of investing my time and money just for you guys to completely change the meta on a whim and make all my hard work for naught.
For the record, I am fairly happy with the current state of the game and was planning on saving a few hundred dollars for black Friday to spend on my character. I will not be spending anymore money on a product that may decide to completely gut something I spent hard earned money on.
You can't go around selling people stuff that has a known value and then strip that value away after sale.
It's simple math, they are useless, no matter what you do. Let's say you have an augment with six brutals rank 14, that's 6x700 power, plus 3 empowered runestones rank 14 is 2000 power each. In an augment you get 100%, so total power increase would be 10200.
If you instead of 6000 power choose eldritch runestones, you would only get 76.5% on top of 4200 power.
Am I missing something here?
It's funny though that cryptic gives in to complaints from people who don't want to spend money on bondings.
I don't want to spend money on anything, can you nerf orange mounts now?!
And nevermind the meta where you slotted Bonding runes in your augment because they were cheaper than Empowered and gave more stats. Oh days gone by.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
The main problem is that the game is not as interesting as it could be. How do you build a DPS toon nowadays? cap everything you can and stack power. How do you build a party? Take all the powersharing you can and add a GWF/HR.
Everyone has so much stats that there is an entire portion of the game left out.
Does anyone consider slotting skills and items for reducing incoming damage? No
**Incorrect. Break The Spirit, Astral Shield are DC tools used quite frequently. No other class really has the damage reduction capability. HR's, Healadins, GF's and SW's have some, but not much.
Does anyone look for utilities like CC when fighting mobs? No
***Correct. Because most mobs at end game are damn near CC immune.
Does anyone need an off-tank, an off healer? No
***Correct. Why should they? One should be enough in a diverse party.
Does anyone need to follow boss mechanics? No daily spamming fixes everything
***Incorrect. Try spamming on the bosses in T3 dungeons and watch yourself die in no time flat.
Does anyone need different then meta DPS enchants, and debuffing ones? No
***Correct. The rework on enchantments buffed their dps but did nothing for debuff or damage reduction so *shrugs*
Well there you go. With less stats the game will be better in my not so humble opinion. I don't see people even considering that. I see them only calculating how much stats they will loose and what they do now may not be as viable anymore.
***With less stats, dungeons end game wise will take much longer to run. For HAMSTER rewards. Not cool. No reason to do the dungeon and waste time on puny rewards when you can spend 10-15minutes and get the exact same rewards out of a T1/2
There are viable concerns, but very few people are threatening to quit because of those.
***People will quit when they've had enough. How many straws does it take to break the camel's back?
*smacks hands together* There. Fixed.
Original Serenity Mostly Retired DC
Tokarek Bearded Dwarven OP Tankadin
JuiceHead Goofy Human GWF
Member of H3llzWarriors and Limitless.
> I've stuck with this game for years through thick and thin but if bondings are nerfed in shape way or form then I'm out, not all of us run with super mega groups that can kill bosses in seconds, I've put thousands of pounds into getting my character to where it is and now you want to take a massive part of that away from me but at the same time also expect me to put more money into your new system? you must be off your face to think this will work you are killing your owe game, if this was any other kind of business you would be bankrupt in a heartbeat, the problem is the world of mmo's isn't policed by any governing body so you just do as you please, if this was a company on the high street you would be sued to hell and back for miss selling, as I've said a simple and easy fix to this problem is to stop companions from receiving buffs from any outside source it's that simple the only reason to go through with this NERF is to force us to spend more cash, you guys at cryptic most think we are stupid
Couldn't AGREE more. They have taught all of us loyal, dedicated players who have invested thousands in their game, a VERY important lesson : We are all STUPID for having spent money on their game. We should join the ranks of free players, who just grind away to build "ok" characters, because no matter how much we SPEND to build a superior build, they are going to nerf it to make it useless eventually. But DON'T worry there will be other options for you to pour money into that will be equally useless when we max out.
Thanks Cryptic for negating the last 6 months of my life in your game. Rather than create NEW content, or provide additional activities in this game, you consistently focus on making the challenging content less challenging (a la castle never), the drops more mundane, and the superior builds less effective with every mod. Rather than ADD good content, your focus is on making everything mediocre. Good plan. So you're not customer focused. Not even on the top tier players. You've received your last micro transaction from this player.
Bondings give currently give a dual buff a +840 (not +700) like others and do this while also giving currently a 95% augment bonus per stone. Then on top of that bonding also grants the companion the buff of the runestone, enchantments, and gear on their direct 3 attack powers or 4 if you have the Lion; but then also extends that benefit to the player by a factor of almost 3x to the player at 70-85% uptime.
An Augment only Augments it does not also attack while then further extending 3x the benefit to the player; an augment doesn't even gain the augmentation boost from a bonding since it has no attack powers. So Augments should be 100% uptime so perhaps in future we'll see a few more using Augments depending on their builds, class or feat choices; but we'll still likely see a majority with bonding pets.
People say 50% uptime is unacceptable yet look how many worked hard to get their +5 Sudden Ring's from Underdark and still mostly use them today for 10s of benefit once every 30s or a 33% uptime. Still Bondings will still offer a clear 2 - 2.5x advantage over most runestones; most will quickly find that out on PREVIEW.
This I believe like some have stated will restore a little more balance to game while also allowing DPS to look for support classes to maximize their benefit. So it offer's players with different builds or classes a few more viable options not just a mandatory one size fit's all solution like it is today.
Seeing one player do 305 million damage in a dungeon, with maybe another at 50m, then one or two others at maybe 15-25m, and one player at 5m really isn't team work. So instead we might see perhaps the top player reduced to 235m, but the 2nd increased to 90m, with the third & fourth players doing 20-50m and the 5th level player perhaps 10-15m. The team still does about the same damage overall and it may take 1-4 minutes longer but it's a little more of a team dynamic.
Clearly the top end player here wouldn't also have any issues running solo in any campaign area and likely if he got all his enchantments to R14 or Weapon & Armor to Rank 13; he'd likely fit into a new top end damage dealer doing well above >450m damage if he re-ran the same dungeon with the same players geared the same while he previous had R12 Enchants.
One day these companies will be viewed the same as rent to own stores and no interest mortgage companies for their predatory business models.
I stuck through the key change, but I see zero redeeming value in this change. I will not be spending time and money to completely revamp my companions. If this goes through it is good bye.
That is ONE thing I think has been so severely missing for far too long.
100% Uptime on Bondings and Eldritch providing their bonus whether in Offense and Defense is a great tweak. I can't speak for anyone else but I can work with these changes and feel like the playing field with Augments and Companions has been levelled fairly.
There will probably be a good few people who dislike this post but Augments had become trash, it reduced players options and forced those that wanted to use Augments to using Companions.
With the 100% uptime on companions and a reduction in the percentage of stats passed from bondings I feel this is a fair rebalance and not as it started, replacing one BiS item with another. It also addresses another concern some had that Augments with 3xDefense slots, there only being the one, the Bulette, ould be the ONLY option for the BiS players.
Like I said, I DON'T like losing stats, but there was a massive balance issue between Augments and Companions that had to be addressed at some point in some manner. So at the end of the day, personally, I can live with this change and can work with it. I can also understand that there will be those who will still be vehemently againts it.
I think increasing augments would be a good compliment to all this though. The obvious way would be giving augments increased % shared based on rank, but I think another way would be more interesting. How about allowing any gear equipped on an augment to transfer any special item features or procs to the character as if the item were equipped by the character themselves. This would give the character benefits from Underdark "sudden" and "rising" rings, EF res from SKT rings, special bonuses from Chult rings, etc., all as if the character were wearing them themselves.