devs, absolutly no green or blue gems in any epic dungeons, those are pure junks, we can get those drop anywhere from trash mobs if we need more trash gems and they are random. most expected those epic dungeons are better quality loots. and you are not doing it RIGHT!
Dungeon chests are optional, not required, Bosses can drop high value loot as well so if players don't want to buy keys they can farm the Bosses (the Grand 4k players should be able to do 15-20 minute or less runs correct?). 300 Zen for 5 keys (5 more dungeon chests) is still good. Keys are not guaranteed to return value equal to or greater than 300 Zen and this is what a LOT of players fail to realize or consciously overlook (just like lottery tickets, if you buy $300 worth you are NOT guaranteed to get a return of $300 plain and simple).
That is plain nonsense. In D&D, players are supposed to be REWARDED for running dungeons. For every run. How can it possibly a reward if you have less after running a dungeon than you had before you ran it? How can a minuscule chance of increasing your "wealth" be regarded as a reward?
That is plain nonsense. In D&D, players are supposed to be REWARDED for running dungeons. For every run. How can it possibly a reward if you have less after running a dungeon than you had before you ran it? How can a minuscule chance of increasing your "wealth" be regarded as a reward?
Players ARE rewarded for running dungeons, the small chance at high value loot is NOT the reward. Out of all the Bosses in a dungeon pretty much one will SOMETHING (not to mention the mobs), it may not be what they want but it is more than what they went in with.
With a "minimal" amount of effort players can craft keys to open a chest(s) at the end of a dungeon(s), crafting those keys is OPTIONAL, players don't have to though if they want to open the chest(s) with minimal effort they will and or acquire LDK's.
As far as the LDK's go, acquiring those is OPTIONAL as well, players don't have to acquire them though if they want to open multiple end chests on consecutive runs of the same dungeon and or not craft a key, they will.
If players acquire LDK's and their return is less than the value of the keys then that is the chance they consciously chose to take, again, plain and simple.
Post edited by trinity706#8838 on
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“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY "No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Players ARE rewarded for running dungeons, the small chance at high value loot is NOT the reward. Out of all the Bosses in a dungeon pretty much one will SOMETHING (not to mention the mobs), it may not be what they want but it is more than what they went in with.
With a "minimal" amount of effort players can craft keys to open a chest(s) at the end of a dungeon(s), crafting those keys is OPTIONAL, players don't have to though if they want to open the chest(s) with minimal effort they will and or acquire LDK's.
As far as the LDK's go, acquiring those is OPTIONAL as well, players don't have to acquire them though if they want to open multiple end chests on consecutive runs of the same dungeon and or not craft a key, they will.
If players acquire LDK's and their return is less than the value of the keys then that is the chance they consciously chose to take, again, plain and simple.
You are still wrong, because if a player ignores the chests (and hence the costs and time for creating the keys) completly and relies on boss drops only, he is more often than not left with no drop from any boss, which means more often than not NO REWARD at all. (Not to mention that for the "reward" of a peridot, r5 or aquamarine noone needs to run a dungeon - mobs in any area drop these, too.)
Only with a key it is guaranteed that the players gets some reward at all, but again, more often than not the reward is no reward because the costs are (more often than not) higher than the reward.
You have to stop this nonsense about 300zen is nothing... 80% of players or more have ony 1 character and use one or two others as livings bags to store items not to play...
So again 36k/40k per day ( dunjeons, skirmish, pvp + selling junk rings at ah) = 100z per day You need 3 days of this routine to get 5 keys... During the time you do that, you're not doing anything else...
Of course if you don't have a real life, 2 hours per day to make ad to buy keys seems reasonable...
I loled at " boss drop stuff". I ve been playing since day 1 on ps4, i never seen a boss droping something exept pure <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> ( exept purples ring in etos binded and so for useless)
Admiting that, i 'll do 3 or 4 cn in an hour or so and and a elol and the 5 keys are gone... And i go back for 3 days of ad farming before i can use another key ????
Fun fact and not related to the topic : Yesterday i join queued CN and find myself at the entrance of orcus room... There was no tank and very low gs players...
They were about to quit after an hour trying. I said : just stay alive i'll kill him alone with long range dps...
The dc who died from the very begining "win" orcus shard while i did 99% of the job alone and get a orcus + 1 and the rest even worth mention (PS4)...
I run CN mostly for r8 runes, keeping them for x2 refinement as the keys dont cost gold... I forget the idea of ever droping a shard...
You guys should check the green one. It was down to 100 k yesterday. I am not kidding. XD
Good idea, complain about the drop rate! Why don't you ask for "please revert to the old insane droprate, except for my account!" I am sure Cryptic will "adjust" (=revert back to last week) soon enough.
Who is complaining ? I mentioned they should go check the price for the * thingy * . Cos it is amazing that it is down to 100k. Is that a complain ? I do not think so. Do not be so aggro , please.
I will however complain about the key change. Wait i already did. Btw did i mention i lost 2 guildies yesterday to a new game they found.
You are still wrong, because if a player ignores the chests (and hence the costs and time for creating the keys) completly and relies on boss drops only, he is more often than not left with no drop from any boss, which means more often than not NO REWARD at all. (Not to mention that for the "reward" of a peridot, r5 or aquamarine noone needs to run a dungeon - mobs in any area drop these, too.)
Only with a key it is guaranteed that the players gets some reward at all, but again, more often than not the reward is no reward because the costs are (more often than not) higher than the reward.
False. Ignoring chests and creating keys are both optional. A player can't ignore a chest and or choose not to create a key then complain about their reward(s) from Boss/mob drops or lack thereof in a dungeon. No matter what a Boss/mob drops inside a dungeon, it doesn't negate the fact that it still grants a player more than what they came in with.
Keys are not needed to run a dungeon, only to open a chest. The same resources used to create a key are the same resources used to create vouchers for a Guild coffer so if players want to use their resources solely for crafting keys and not getting the return they want instead of sometimes putting it towards something that is GUARANTEED to give a higher return on investment (higher Guild rank, Boon structures, etc.) that is their choice.
Pretty much one of the ONLY things guaranteed to give a greater return on investment in this game are Guilds, again a LOT of people consciously over look this part of the game.
You have to stop this nonsense about 300zen is nothing...
80% of players or more have ony 1 character and use one or two others as livings bags to store items not to play...
So again 36k/40k per day ( dunjeons, skirmish, pvp + selling junk rings at ah) = 100z per day
You need 3 days of this routine to get 5 keys...
During the time you do that, you're not doing anything else...
I loled at " boss drop stuff". I ve been playing since day 1 on ps4, i never seen a boss droping something exept pure HAMSTER ( exept purples ring in etos binded and so for useless)
Who stated 300 Zen was nothing? I stated ways to generate the AD to buy keys if that is what someone wants to do. If your play time is limited and you are only able to generate X amount of AD a day then by all means proceed within that amount, eventually you will get to the point where you can get more done in less time if you choose. Also if you want to do your current routine for three days and then play that is your choice.
False. Ignoring chests and creating keys are both optional. A player can't ignore a chest and or choose not to create a key then complain about their reward(s) from Boss/mob drops or lack thereof in a dungeon. No matter what a Boss/mob drops inside a dungeon, it doesn't negate the fact that it still grants a player more than what they came in with.
That's exactly the kind of ... uhm... ok, let's still say... "argument" that I would expect from Cryptic. "Hey, what do you want? You came with nothing and just after 45 minutes of CN you got a peridot as a reward from a boss drop! For free! You lucky, lucky b*stard! :-)"
I omit the rest of your post (as it contains more nonsense in my opinion) and try to say it once more clearly, perhaps you get it then: In a D&D game, dungeons are supposed to REWARD the players. EVERY TIME they run a dungeon. In NWO, that is not the case. Almost never.
The issue with the dungeon key change now is that now after the change, the players effectively have to PAY for the CHANCE to get a reward.
That's exactly the kind of ... uhm... ok, let's still say... "argument" that I would expect from Cryptic. "Hey, what do you want? You came with nothing and just after 45 minutes of CN you got a peridot as a reward from a boss drop! For free! You lucky, lucky b*stard! :-)"
I omit the rest of your post (as it contains more nonsense in my opinion) and try to say it once more clearly, perhaps you get it then: In a D&D game, dungeons are supposed to REWARD the players. EVERY TIME they run a dungeon. In NWO, that is not the case. Almost never.
The issue with the dungeon key change now is that now after the change, the players effectively have to PAY for the CHANCE to get a reward.
Players only pay for keys if they want and or don't have the in-game means to accrue AD for them and just because you don't consider lower value items from dungeon Bosses/mobs as rewards for running a dungeon doesn't solidify your argument.
Just in case you didn't see it before @therealprotex here's a screenshot of a Boss drop, no key, just a plain Boss drop that so many claim does NOT happen...
As long as ^^^ continues to happen the various arguments of "players have to pay to open chests to get something", "bosses don't drop anything good" and the like are quite invalid seeing as opening a chest is NOT required for high value items.
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In Destiny there was something nice with end game dunjeons...
A set of armor was composed by 4 pieces. Each boss of the dunjeon would grant you a good chance or guaranted piece and a chance of "exotic armor/weapon ( a real good chance ) of the set. BUT... The stats of the piece would be random so you could hope for let's say crit and end up with stamina, ect...
To be fair in a few weeks i had every piece i needed... The downpart was that i did not have a reason to run the dunjeon anymore exept for exotics or help friends. But it could take a lot longer for others people to get the exact pieces they wanted. The loot of this dunjeon was only once a time by week otherwise it would be done in a few hours or days.
(Are we supose to run the same dunjeons ad nausea until our brains become sea sponges ? I dont think so.)
That way, you were rewarded for every dunjeon. That's how things should be. Ofc, a 10th piece you already have dont help you at all but at least it wasnt a joke like a peridot or <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> like orcus blue rings.. There was no auction or selling but some kind of trading...
These blue stuff are an insult to us, i prefer nothing than a frakking peridot.
In Destiny, there was secret achievements and mysterys in dunjeon that took quite a lot of time to be resolved With the lore of D&D, there should stuff like that in dunjeons instead of only watching numbers flying on the screen. A reason to enjoy searching and digging intead of only want to go to the final chest...
they should cut in half the requirements to make keys for the "lesser" dungeons which I consider elol and below. So make it half the time and half the resources to make a key for those dungeons. This solves some of the problem (for not vet max players).
For maxed out players (running CN and up) they should allow us to create something like a legendary key that allows us to open chests in any of the dungeons. Keep it the same amount of time to create as now but not as much resource.
2
therealprotexMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 526Arc User
Players only pay for keys if they want and or don't have the in-game means to accrue AD for them and just because you don't consider lower value items from dungeon Bosses/mobs as rewards for running a dungeon doesn't solidify your argument.
That alone does not solidify my argument, that's true. But some other things maybe.
What about Cryptic's own statement that "time" is considered a currency equivalent to real cash. So if a player invests ANY currency in a dungeon run, be it by spending time or money, what kind of player would feel rewarded if he gets less from the run than he invested? And I am pretty sure that more than 99% of the player base will agree that a peridot (or even nothing) is MUCH less than the time invested in a 45 minute CN run.
Another hint that my argument is not that far-fetched should give you the overall and massively negative reaction to this change of the community in the forum and the player base in the game. All goofy except you? Maybe, but unlikely.
Just in case you didn't see it before @therealprotex here's a screenshot of a Boss drop, no key, just a plain Boss drop that so many claim does NOT happen...
As long as ^^^ continues to happen the various arguments of "players have to pay to open chests to get something", "bosses don't drop anything good" and the like are quite invalid seeing as opening a chest is NOT required for high value items.
Ah, and here you show that you truely did not get what most of us are talking about. Perhaps re-read the posts again? Noone claimed that you HAVE TO open the chests to get something or that bosses NEVER drop anything good. I always wrote "more often than not" the player gets not properly rewarded. But - once again - in D&D the player is supposed to get rewarded for EVERY dungeon run. Just imaging how often you'd join a DM for a tabletop D&D game where he gave you in 10% only a reward that compensates your investment? Or where you have to pay him some money for a key to increase your reward chance?
going to post screen caps of drops i get today after the update is finished for ps4, if that is ok, in this thread. the only epic dungeons i don't do are crag/wolf and fbi(too low).
@nitocris83 when are the patch notes going to be released?
Apparently, they dropped a little over 2 hours before maintenance the day of (today). Though, it wasn't announced until maintenance had already gone underway. The patch notes can be viewed here
Way to go with formally informing your player base in a timely manner...
So, I think we players on PS4 should use this Google Sheet to record what we get from our dungeons. Anyone can edit the document and I expect it to get quite long very quickly. Let's see what changed and if anyone gets better and/or interesting rewards.
I've gotten 3 rare unbound mounts, a Bear Cub, Waters of Elhazad, an Astral Deva, Shard of Orcus's Wand and an Epic Greater belt of Seldarine. I've gotten a Kessell's Spheres of Annihilation and epic Rust Monster bound. This is over three days (6-10 dungeons a day) and aside aside from the bear they all dropped from epic dungeon chests. The drop rates on these items themselves may be relatively low (I've yet to get a duplicate), but getting a drop from the enormous loot table they're part of is actually pretty high. Honestly this is one of the better changes Cryptic has made because it encourages people to run dungeons. Anyone that hasn't seen anything positive come out of this is either not in a guild or isn't running dungeons.
Heck, I had a guildmate get a rare air archon from VT. That's 700k from a T1 that you can get the campaign chest from easily and takes all of seven minutes to complete.
@urabask sadly anecdotal evidence will always be that. I've gained over this weekend alone: a +5 ring of cowardice (lesser demonic key in throne), Horn of blasting (boss drop), Hoard Necklace (regular epic chest drop), demogorgon's girdle of might from regular demo, and several + 4s that I no longer need and are therefore consigned to forgetfulness and salvage. My testimony of what is undoubtedly a quite profitable weekend should reinforce the testimony of those who are reporting their increased drop rates right?
Well, here's the kicker: I play on PS4, so all of these gains were obtained before the loot tables have changed. Point being, RNG is gonna RNG, and I had quite the lucky weekend indeed, but unless cryptic covertly changed the drop rates before the patch, it's all still luck bound.
I have obviously no problem with increased drop rates. But what no one can deny is that for every success story, there are still plenty of dud chests laying about, and nowhere near enough evidence that the end result will be positive for players. And once the few spares I have run out, if the end result of my spending 40 minutes in well of dragons followed by 20 hours of waiting for a key to be made is a bunch of green stones in Lostmauth, it still won't be worth it.
They could of course increase the base net value we gain from chests, even if we obviously won't hit the jackpot every single run. But surely they won't do that. they could and should prevent bound drops, for obvious reasons (what use will that bound rust monster be when you have all your rust monster demands met), but failing that, a system to trade those bound companions we don't need for something we can actually use is a necessity. And most of all, they should streamline the process by which these keys are made. Hell, they do it already for all the underdark content which already drops the materials needed to make the keys to run those contents, and this should be the norm for all the epics: Vryptic maintains its dearly beloved dripfeeding of content, but we gain the resources to play the content by playing the actual content and not by running sidequests wherein resources are shared with boons and our ever hungrier stronghold mimic.
So, while the change is not without its merits, if changes are not implemented, the gold rush will dry up in tandem with the spare keys, the market will crash from the newfound abundance and a lack of new pies in the sky for players to chase. And when that happens I'll have to fish. And I really did not sign up to a D&D rpg to fish.
"Players primarily focusing on Dungeons and little of the other content is probably PART of the reason for the key change. " @trinity706#8838 Well, I'd say to this nonsense that:
-if the devs don't want us to focus on dungeons and skirmishes, then they shouldn't make them the sole source of rough ad revenue (not to mention pretty much the main way to regularly get rewards other than refinables). - That I've seen how lukewarm and unengaging the vast majority of the endgame areas are. Static maps with a "to do" list of activities is anything but compelling gameplay, especially when stretched over the course of months. - That some people get their enjoyment out of a dungeons and dragons game, out of running dungeons. Go figure, eh?
That's Destiny, where players pay for expansions, meaning the developers/publishers could be in a different position than those of Neverwinter, a free to play game.
they should cut in half the requirements to make keys for the "lesser" dungeons which I consider elol and below. So make it half the time and half the resources to make a key for those dungeons. This solves some of the problem (for not vet max players).
For maxed out players (running CN and up) they should allow us to create something like a legendary key that allows us to open chests in any of the dungeons. Keep it the same amount of time to create as now but not as much resource.
The problem I see with these type of suggestions is that they diminish the value of playing the game and would create a snowball effect. You would have "vet" players doing half the effort for a key or doing the same amount of effort for two keys, either way they will more than likely still log off after using their available keys. Other players would argue that if the requirements for the keys is reduced, the requirements for other things should be reduced as well (snowball effect).
Ah, and here you show that you truely did not get what most of us are talking about. Perhaps re-read the posts again? Noone claimed that you HAVE TO open the chests to get something or that bosses NEVER drop anything good. I always wrote "more often than not" the player gets not properly rewarded. But - once again - in D&D the player is supposed to get rewarded for EVERY dungeon run
I have seen, read and discussed a number things covered here with a number of people and it pretty much amounts to the same thing "I care very little about the other content, I only do dungeons and the rare drop rate isn't to my liking". That pretty much sums it up right? When asked about what they do for their Guild a lot of players had little to state.
What about Cryptic's own statement that "time" is considered a currency equivalent to real cash.
That is how you perceive the statement, not that I disagree with it, though that statement is open to interpretation and just like investments, if a person invests in the wrong thing they can lose or make less.
Example 1 Dungeon Route
Let's say a player is seeking the Shard of Orcus Wand, has a Greater Demonic key and invests 1 hour gathering the materials to craft another, starts the tasks, runs CN, takes 1 hour, doesn't get the drop off Boss or chest and logs off. Logs on the next day, gathers materials, starts key, runs CN and doesn't get the shard and does this 30 times, on the 30th time they get the Shard of Orcus Wand valued at 5m AD (roughly equivalent to 166,666 AD or 555 Zen or $5.99 per day). It took that player over 27 days to accomplish their goal.
Example 2 AD Route
Let's say another player has the same goal, invests 1 hour during a play session and accrues 150k AD doing professions, dungeons, skirmishes, on one character and professions twice a day on another character as well and got 360k AD from that one, total that player gained 510,000 AD ($16.99 or 1700 Zen) and does this for 10 days (5.1m AD) and buys a SoOW (valued at 5m AD). By investing their time differently it granted them the room to gain more and accomplish their goal in less time.
Neither player is wrong for going at it their way though mathematically some courses of action can be seen as more promising.
going to post screen caps of drops i get today after the update is finished for ps4, if that is ok, in this thread. the only epic dungeons i don't do are crag/wolf and fbi(too low).
I hope you have previous ones to compare the new ones to...
So, I think we players on PS4 should use this Google Sheet to record what we get from our dungeons. Anyone can edit the document and I expect it to get quite long very quickly. Let's see what changed and if anyone gets better and/or interesting rewards.
Good idea, screenshots or it didn't happen though (LoL). Pretty much from this point and for quite some time players may want to screenshot/record dungeon runs to help prove/disprove any of the announced loot changes. Would be even better if players had tons of ones from the previous update.
-if the devs don't want us to focus on dungeons and skirmishes, then they shouldn't make them the sole source of rough ad revenue (not to mention pretty much the main way to regularly get rewards other than refinables). - That I've seen how lukewarm and unengaging the vast majority of the endgame areas are. Static maps with a "to do" list of activities is anything but compelling gameplay, especially when stretched over the course of months.
My argument isn't nor has been to not focus on dungeons at all but to shift focus (in part) to other aspects of the game that give tangible non-RNG factored results if players feels that they aren't getting the drops they want out of it. I have clearly stated "primarily" focusing on dungeons. Seeing as the rate of dungeon drops is a major portion of the argument a lot of players are trying to make professions arguably can and do produce more AD on a consistent basis than dungeon/skirmish drops/chests. Players have a higher chance of buying a SoOW using various aspects of the game than getting it in a dungeon and if they want to get the drop to sell they have a higher chance of accruing the same amount AD (if not more) using those same aspects of the game.
The "Static maps with a "to do" list of activities is anything but compelling gameplay" areas you are referring to contain daily quests that provide currency to craft dungeon keys as well as Guild vouchers and or donate directly to the coffer, if these areas are not "compelling" (the quests/task themselves not really, but the reward from them yes) being that they are vital to the Stronghold and crafting dungeon keys, how else will those currencies be obtained (rhetorical)? If "your" Guild isn't rank 20 or "you" aren't willing to fund it to that point those daily quest, currency containing zones will remain relevant no matter how far away players try to push the Guild portion of the game.
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“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY "No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
As another expressed, RNG is RNG. I'm glad many of you are getting nice drops. Seems a lot of my guild/alliance mates are getting tons of nice things too, as is my partner.
I'm on the other end of the spectrum. Five days of running multiples of each of CN, FBI, mSVA, eCC, VT, eGWD, DLx14, KR, eSOT, eToS, eLOL, eSOT, POM and nDemo, I've gotten a Pale Horse BoE, an Emblem of the Seldarine BtA, and a Symbol of Earth BtA. Three items for dozens of keys, one of which I can sell for 15k, the other two I won't use.
I'm trying to stay optimistic but in truth I can't help feeling embittered, angry and disheartened. This mimicks my experience with the Horn taking a year to drop for me. Some accounts are unlucky, I guess. For the first time in three years, my mind is wandering to other games I have been puttting off.
I logged in after the update sea of moving ice and all my keys are gone!!! I spent hard earned money on those keys and spent DAYS crafting some and now they are all gone! This is absolutely the worst customer service I have ever recieved! I bought you key packs for over $21.00 dollars of keys and you take them away! This is truly terrible. In all I have spent over $500.00 dollars in zen in a years time. I am so angry you make me want tojust quit or hire legal response for charging for something and not providing service for it.
DEVS if you are listening or even bother reading some comments on here youll see how affected people are by the key "bug" change it has angered ALOT of players (some of which are already toying with the idea of finding another game and others already are looking for new games to play)
If for some reason your planning on keeping this aweful idea and NOT listening to the players why dont you revert back to how neverwinter used to be where every 2/3 hours you would have dungeon delves where you wouldnt require a key to open the box at the end of the dungeon maybe just maybe this might keep your fanbase.
You now need to please your players and not your bank accounts because without the players interested in the game players dont buy zen no zen means no money. Interest is where your money is made what you have to do now is make your players happy and keep them interested not punish them.
-if the devs don't want us to focus on dungeons and skirmishes, then they shouldn't make them the sole source of rough ad revenue (not to mention pretty much the main way to regularly get rewards other than refinables). - That I've seen how lukewarm and unengaging the vast majority of the endgame areas are. Static maps with a "to do" list of activities is anything but compelling gameplay, especially when stretched over the course of months.
My argument isn't nor has been to not focus on dungeons at all but to shift focus (in part) to other aspects of the game that give tangible non-RNG factored results if players feels that they aren't getting the drops they want out of it. I have clearly stated "primarily" focusing on dungeons. Seeing as the rate of dungeon drops is a major portion of the argument a lot of players are trying to make professions arguably can and do produce more AD on a consistent basis than dungeon/skirmish drops/chests. Players have a higher chance of buying a SoOW using various aspects of the game than getting it in a dungeon and if they want to get the drop to sell they have a higher chance of accruing the same amount AD (if not more) using those same aspects of the game.
The "Static maps with a "to do" list of activities is anything but compelling gameplay" areas you are referring to contain daily quests that provide currency to craft dungeon keys as well as Guild vouchers and or donate directly to the coffer, if these areas are not "compelling" (the quests/task themselves not really, but the reward from them yes) being that they are vital to the Stronghold and crafting dungeon keys, how else will those currencies be obtained (rhetorical)? If "your" Guild isn't rank 20 or "you" aren't willing to fund it to that point those daily quest, currency containing zones will remain relevant no matter how far away players try to push the Guild portion of the game.
so, I say the vast majority of the content outside dungeons is tedious and unrewarding and my main pleasure from the game comes from running dungeons and seeking loot, and your solution is "run more of that tedious and unrewarding content" and even adding more busywork I didn't originally think of.
Anyway, moving on.
So far, on ps4,
2 Lostmauths gave me a piece of alliance armor dropping from the dragon (one per run), one necklace, 30 seals and 3 green resonance stones from 1st legendary chest, one waistband, 30 seals and 1 greater thaumaturgic stone from the second. Epic chest keys yielded black ice enchantments and pieces of alliance gear.
1 valindra gave me 30 seal and 1 alliance ring from both chests, no boss drop.
1 kessel's gave me some black ice and alliance gear.
1 ESoT gave me an alliance drop from Garakas, regular alliance drop from epic chest.
2 regular gold demos gave me 1 +2 ring as a regular reward and a +1 from chest, the other a +1 from regular and a +3 defense and flawless saphire.
That makes it 2 Elol and 1 Valindra keys used with NOTHING to show for it.
edit: ran another elol, an ETOS, Valindra and kessel's. One of my guildmates got an owlbear cub, the rest got the exact same old HAMSTER. This is *not* a good tradeoff.
Moving on is right.instead of a couple chances to see if i get something now i can chance it and waste my key effectively ending my day of playing the game.good move.
Comments
Character: Vendetta
Players ARE rewarded for running dungeons, the small chance at high value loot is NOT the reward. Out of all the Bosses in a dungeon pretty much one will SOMETHING (not to mention the mobs), it may not be what they want but it is more than what they went in with.
With a "minimal" amount of effort players can craft keys to open a chest(s) at the end of a dungeon(s), crafting those keys is OPTIONAL, players don't have to though if they want to open the chest(s) with minimal effort they will and or acquire LDK's.
As far as the LDK's go, acquiring those is OPTIONAL as well, players don't have to acquire them though if they want to open multiple end chests on consecutive runs of the same dungeon and or not craft a key, they will.
If players acquire LDK's and their return is less than the value of the keys then that is the chance they consciously chose to take, again, plain and simple.
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
Only with a key it is guaranteed that the players gets some reward at all, but again, more often than not the reward is no reward because the costs are (more often than not) higher than the reward.
80% of players or more have ony 1 character and use one or two others as livings bags to store items not to play...
So again 36k/40k per day ( dunjeons, skirmish, pvp + selling junk rings at ah) = 100z per day
You need 3 days of this routine to get 5 keys...
During the time you do that, you're not doing anything else...
Of course if you don't have a real life, 2 hours per day to make ad to buy keys seems reasonable...
I loled at " boss drop stuff". I ve been playing since day 1 on ps4, i never seen a boss droping something exept pure <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> ( exept purples ring in etos binded and so for useless)
Admiting that, i 'll do 3 or 4 cn in an hour or so and and a elol and the 5 keys are gone...
And i go back for 3 days of ad farming before i can use another key ????
Fun fact and not related to the topic :
Yesterday i join queued CN and find myself at the entrance of orcus room...
There was no tank and very low gs players...
They were about to quit after an hour trying. I said : just stay alive i'll kill him alone with long range dps...
The dc who died from the very begining "win" orcus shard while i did 99% of the job alone and get a orcus + 1 and the rest even worth mention (PS4)...
I run CN mostly for r8 runes, keeping them for x2 refinement as the keys dont cost gold... I forget the idea of ever droping a shard...
If you read this, i hate you xD
I mentioned they should go check the price for the * thingy * .
Cos it is amazing that it is down to 100k. Is that a complain ? I do not think so.
Do not be so aggro , please.
I will however complain about the key change. Wait i already did. Btw did i mention i lost 2 guildies yesterday to a new game they found.
There. Feel better now ? I complained.
Keys are not needed to run a dungeon, only to open a chest. The same resources used to create a key are the same resources used to create vouchers for a Guild coffer so if players want to use their resources solely for crafting keys and not getting the return they want instead of sometimes putting it towards something that is GUARANTEED to give a higher return on investment (higher Guild rank, Boon structures, etc.) that is their choice.
Pretty much one of the ONLY things guaranteed to give a greater return on investment in this game are Guilds, again a LOT of people consciously over look this part of the game. Who stated 300 Zen was nothing? I stated ways to generate the AD to buy keys if that is what someone wants to do. If your play time is limited and you are only able to generate X amount of AD a day then by all means proceed within that amount, eventually you will get to the point where you can get more done in less time if you choose. Also if you want to do your current routine for three days and then play that is your choice.
But here you go...
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
I love your RNG. Nicely done! Can i kidnap you for a dungeon sometimes ? Maybe your luck rubs of me.
I omit the rest of your post (as it contains more nonsense in my opinion) and try to say it once more clearly, perhaps you get it then: In a D&D game, dungeons are supposed to REWARD the players. EVERY TIME they run a dungeon. In NWO, that is not the case. Almost never.
The issue with the dungeon key change now is that now after the change, the players effectively have to PAY for the CHANCE to get a reward.
Hmmm... maybe? LoL
Players only pay for keys if they want and or don't have the in-game means to accrue AD for them and just because you don't consider lower value items from dungeon Bosses/mobs as rewards for running a dungeon doesn't solidify your argument.
Just in case you didn't see it before @therealprotex here's a screenshot of a Boss drop, no key, just a plain Boss drop that so many claim does NOT happen...
As long as ^^^ continues to happen the various arguments of "players have to pay to open chests to get something", "bosses don't drop anything good" and the like are quite invalid seeing as opening a chest is NOT required for high value items.
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
A set of armor was composed by 4 pieces.
Each boss of the dunjeon would grant you a good chance or guaranted piece and a chance of "exotic armor/weapon ( a real good chance ) of the set.
BUT... The stats of the piece would be random so you could hope for let's say crit and end up with stamina, ect...
To be fair in a few weeks i had every piece i needed... The downpart was that i did not have a reason to run the dunjeon anymore exept for exotics or help friends.
But it could take a lot longer for others people to get the exact pieces they wanted.
The loot of this dunjeon was only once a time by week otherwise it would be done in a few hours or days.
(Are we supose to run the same dunjeons ad nausea until our brains become sea sponges ? I dont think so.)
That way, you were rewarded for every dunjeon. That's how things should be.
Ofc, a 10th piece you already have dont help you at all but at least it wasnt a joke like a peridot or <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> like orcus blue rings..
There was no auction or selling but some kind of trading...
These blue stuff are an insult to us, i prefer nothing than a frakking peridot.
In Destiny, there was secret achievements and mysterys in dunjeon that took quite a lot of time to be resolved
With the lore of D&D, there should stuff like that in dunjeons instead of only watching numbers flying on the screen.
A reason to enjoy searching and digging intead of only want to go to the final chest...
For maxed out players (running CN and up) they should allow us to create something like a legendary key that allows us to open chests in any of the dungeons. Keep it the same amount of time to create as now but not as much resource.
What about Cryptic's own statement that "time" is considered a currency equivalent to real cash. So if a player invests ANY currency in a dungeon run, be it by spending time or money, what kind of player would feel rewarded if he gets less from the run than he invested? And I am pretty sure that more than 99% of the player base will agree that a peridot (or even nothing) is MUCH less than the time invested in a 45 minute CN run.
Another hint that my argument is not that far-fetched should give you the overall and massively negative reaction to this change of the community in the forum and the player base in the game. All goofy except you? Maybe, but unlikely. Ah, and here you show that you truely did not get what most of us are talking about. Perhaps re-read the posts again? Noone claimed that you HAVE TO open the chests to get something or that bosses NEVER drop anything good. I always wrote "more often than not" the player gets not properly rewarded. But - once again - in D&D the player is supposed to get rewarded for EVERY dungeon run. Just imaging how often you'd join a DM for a tabletop D&D game where he gave you in 10% only a reward that compensates your investment? Or where you have to pay him some money for a key to increase your reward chance?
The patch notes can be viewed here
Way to go with formally informing your player base in a timely manner...
So, I think we players on PS4 should use this Google Sheet to record what we get from our dungeons. Anyone can edit the document and I expect it to get quite long very quickly. Let's see what changed and if anyone gets better and/or interesting rewards.
@urabask sadly anecdotal evidence will always be that. I've gained over this weekend alone: a +5 ring of cowardice (lesser demonic key in throne), Horn of blasting (boss drop), Hoard Necklace (regular epic chest drop), demogorgon's girdle of might from regular demo, and several + 4s that I no longer need and are therefore consigned to forgetfulness and salvage. My testimony of what is undoubtedly a quite profitable weekend should reinforce the testimony of those who are reporting their increased drop rates right?
Well, here's the kicker: I play on PS4, so all of these gains were obtained before the loot tables have changed. Point being, RNG is gonna RNG, and I had quite the lucky weekend indeed, but unless cryptic covertly changed the drop rates before the patch, it's all still luck bound.
I have obviously no problem with increased drop rates. But what no one can deny is that for every success story, there are still plenty of dud chests laying about, and nowhere near enough evidence that the end result will be positive for players. And once the few spares I have run out, if the end result of my spending 40 minutes in well of dragons followed by 20 hours of waiting for a key to be made is a bunch of green stones in Lostmauth, it still won't be worth it.
They could of course increase the base net value we gain from chests, even if we obviously won't hit the jackpot every single run. But surely they won't do that. they could and should prevent bound drops, for obvious reasons (what use will that bound rust monster be when you have all your rust monster demands met), but failing that, a system to trade those bound companions we don't need for something we can actually use is a necessity. And most of all, they should streamline the process by which these keys are made. Hell, they do it already for all the underdark content which already drops the materials needed to make the keys to run those contents, and this should be the norm for all the epics: Vryptic maintains its dearly beloved dripfeeding of content, but we gain the resources to play the content by playing the actual content and not by running sidequests wherein resources are shared with boons and our ever hungrier stronghold mimic.
So, while the change is not without its merits, if changes are not implemented, the gold rush will dry up in tandem with the spare keys, the market will crash from the newfound abundance and a lack of new pies in the sky for players to chase. And when that happens I'll have to fish. And I really did not sign up to a D&D rpg to fish.
"Players primarily focusing on Dungeons and little of the other content is probably PART of the reason for the key change. "
@trinity706#8838 Well, I'd say to this nonsense that:
-if the devs don't want us to focus on dungeons and skirmishes, then they shouldn't make them the sole source of rough ad revenue (not to mention pretty much the main way to regularly get rewards other than refinables).
- That I've seen how lukewarm and unengaging the vast majority of the endgame areas are. Static maps with a "to do" list of activities is anything but compelling gameplay, especially when stretched over the course of months.
- That some people get their enjoyment out of a dungeons and dragons game, out of running dungeons. Go figure, eh?
That is how you perceive the statement, not that I disagree with it, though that statement is open to interpretation and just like investments, if a person invests in the wrong thing they can lose or make less.
Example 1 Dungeon Route
Let's say a player is seeking the Shard of Orcus Wand, has a Greater Demonic key and invests 1 hour gathering the materials to craft another, starts the tasks, runs CN, takes 1 hour, doesn't get the drop off Boss or chest and logs off. Logs on the next day, gathers materials, starts key, runs CN and doesn't get the shard and does this 30 times, on the 30th time they get the Shard of Orcus Wand valued at 5m AD (roughly equivalent to 166,666 AD or 555 Zen or $5.99 per day). It took that player over 27 days to accomplish their goal.
Example 2 AD Route
Let's say another player has the same goal, invests 1 hour during a play session and accrues 150k AD doing professions, dungeons, skirmishes, on one character and professions twice a day on another character as well and got 360k AD from that one, total that player gained 510,000 AD ($16.99 or 1700 Zen) and does this for 10 days (5.1m AD) and buys a SoOW (valued at 5m AD). By investing their time differently it granted them the room to gain more and accomplish their goal in less time.
Neither player is wrong for going at it their way though mathematically some courses of action can be seen as more promising. I hope you have previous ones to compare the new ones to... Good idea, screenshots or it didn't happen though (LoL). Pretty much from this point and for quite some time players may want to screenshot/record dungeon runs to help prove/disprove any of the announced loot changes. Would be even better if players had tons of ones from the previous update.
My argument isn't nor has been to not focus on dungeons at all but to shift focus (in part) to other aspects of the game that give tangible non-RNG factored results if players feels that they aren't getting the drops they want out of it. I have clearly stated "primarily" focusing on dungeons. Seeing as the rate of dungeon drops is a major portion of the argument a lot of players are trying to make professions arguably can and do produce more AD on a consistent basis than dungeon/skirmish drops/chests. Players have a higher chance of buying a SoOW using various aspects of the game than getting it in a dungeon and if they want to get the drop to sell they have a higher chance of accruing the same amount AD (if not more) using those same aspects of the game.
The "Static maps with a "to do" list of activities is anything but compelling gameplay" areas you are referring to contain daily quests that provide currency to craft dungeon keys as well as Guild vouchers and or donate directly to the coffer, if these areas are not "compelling" (the quests/task themselves not really, but the reward from them yes) being that they are vital to the Stronghold and crafting dungeon keys, how else will those currencies be obtained (rhetorical)? If "your" Guild isn't rank 20 or "you" aren't willing to fund it to that point those daily quest, currency containing zones will remain relevant no matter how far away players try to push the Guild portion of the game.
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
I'm on the other end of the spectrum. Five days of running multiples of each of CN, FBI, mSVA, eCC, VT, eGWD, DLx14, KR, eSOT, eToS, eLOL, eSOT, POM and nDemo, I've gotten a Pale Horse BoE, an Emblem of the Seldarine BtA, and a Symbol of Earth BtA. Three items for dozens of keys, one of which I can sell for 15k, the other two I won't use.
I'm trying to stay optimistic but in truth I can't help feeling embittered, angry and disheartened. This mimicks my experience with the Horn taking a year to drop for me. Some accounts are unlucky, I guess. For the first time in three years, my mind is wandering to other games I have been puttting off.
If for some reason your planning on keeping this aweful idea and NOT listening to the players why dont you revert back to how neverwinter used to be where every 2/3 hours you would have dungeon delves where you wouldnt require a key to open the box at the end of the dungeon maybe just maybe this might keep your fanbase.
You now need to please your players and not your bank accounts because without the players interested in the game players dont buy zen no zen means no money. Interest is where your money is made what you have to do now is make your players happy and keep them interested not punish them.
Anyway, moving on.
So far, on ps4,
2 Lostmauths gave me a piece of alliance armor dropping from the dragon (one per run), one necklace, 30 seals and 3 green resonance stones from 1st legendary chest, one waistband, 30 seals and 1 greater thaumaturgic stone from the second. Epic chest keys yielded black ice enchantments and pieces of alliance gear.
1 valindra gave me 30 seal and 1 alliance ring from both chests, no boss drop.
1 kessel's gave me some black ice and alliance gear.
1 ESoT gave me an alliance drop from Garakas, regular alliance drop from epic chest.
2 regular gold demos gave me 1 +2 ring as a regular reward and a +1 from chest, the other a +1 from regular and a +3 defense and flawless saphire.
That makes it 2 Elol and 1 Valindra keys used with NOTHING to show for it.
@mimicking#6533, you fixed HAMSTER.
edit: ran another elol, an ETOS, Valindra and kessel's. One of my guildmates got an owlbear cub, the rest got the exact same old HAMSTER. This is *not* a good tradeoff.
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen