turzan, you means what has made WoW popular from the point of view of PvP?
When there were neither arenas nor BG yet. There was a remarkable zone Northern Barrens-> Crossroads in which without any rules more than 5000+ players were at war for a small piece of the earth, and believe it was very cheerful. Even the strongest player making a mistake I died instantly. And what we see here, with 4k IL + stronghold will kill any solo all team of the opponent.
It isn't interesting.
Remember one thing mate - WoW is 10 years old (if i good remember) and it is run by big and expirienced company. I like Neverwinter much more (i dont say its better or worse - it suits me more - my own opinion) and i like to NWO be a NWO not similar to other game. Thats why i posted few sugestions to exacly keep them alive and (in the futere maybe) interesting for mass of people.
''..REMOVE THE USELESS STAT OF TENACITY ,BRING BACK HEALING WITH REGENERATION STAT DURING FIGHTS..''
Yeah for sure, imagine pvp without tenacity - in the times when people gain 30k power 18k arpen and players hit by 100-150k mostly, without tenacity it will be "5 atwill hits" . Trs will probably execute dc in astral and gf holdin shield
Back healing from regen?? Man ppl got heal from wheel, arti weapons, drowcraft shirt/pants and brutal life steal u want to back regen heal for real??
Post edited by turzan on
Godfinder
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kalina311Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,082Arc User
Describe why you think tenacity is useless or more importantly what do you think it does?
Failure to respond/ describe some insight as to why tenacity should be removed just makes make people skip over all your other points and only serves to discredit you
To remove tenacity would require removing all gear that was very hard to work for and grind and has different stat distribution so they just remove it off the gear then what ?? add some random stat of your choice ? their choice ?? who's choice what about all the investment into the gear ?
Why not petition for base tenacity to be slightly increased or stat curves adjusted then that would/should have be your suggestion if you had any understanding of what was going on
This would help casuals more and people with moderate gear more and also help with mixing and matching of pvp /pve sets and equipment and promote build diversity
Tenacity is meant to prolong a fight your suggestion of removing it does just the opposite there would not be time for regen to kick in to heal any meaningful amount (.if anything it would only work out of combat ) before you are bursted down due to lack of tenacity / defenses
i see an enemy player in pvp with 3k+ tenacity and i have 1k+ tenacity ...if i go to fight him in 1v1 the match will be equal,fair and balanced ? The answer is No.
This is not much about unbalnce/balance its about gain descent equipment imo. Btw i got a little bit less than 2k tenacity and havnt problem face players with much more.
"pan17 ''..REMOVE THE USELESS STAT OF TENACITY ,BRING BACK HEALING WITH REGENERATION STAT DURING FIGHTS..''"
Why not change the tenacity to reduce % incoming damge/healing from player instead of just add the additional layers of resistances. Might resolve 1 shot
''..REMOVE THE USELESS STAT OF TENACITY ,BRING BACK HEALING WITH REGENERATION STAT DURING FIGHTS..'' for both pvp and pvp ....all these in one pvp mod..here we are ...
solo queues premade queues 1v1,2v2,3v3,5v5 arenas deathmatches pvp queue for new level 70 players pvp queue without tenacity and with healing from regeneration stat
All these must be the new pvp mods in Neverwinter ..dot and hyphene !
This wont work.... you will have players 1 shot you. I think you are HALF right.
Step 1) REMOVE tenacity STAT Step 2) Provide EVERYONE a "base" tenacity just as a flat bonus without any stats equal to the CURRENT tenacity levels. Players already get a 10% "base" tenacity. So just increase this to appropriate levels and remove the STAT. What this does is allows the use of ANY gear for PVP which is a huge problem because each module you have divided the player base into PVE and PVP. When you release a new dungeon or PVE set of gear you also have to release ANOTHER pvp set and a way to achieve that - which the removal of tenacity allows to focus and release ONE set of gear - which players can viably use for PVP.
As for regen healing - NO. We need this to go the OTHER way and LESS self healing not more... They need to go through and nerf hammer ALL the self healing items and abilities used by NON healing classes... Insignias, water wheel, water weapons, abilities, and ESPECIALLY change "endless consumption" to either a flat severity boost OR a flat lifesteal % - NOT a chance to triple your heal.
This would be a massive massive balance change to PVP that would be HUGE and balance the game a ton.
What is really interesting about this game, is... The current state of the game is bad, but that actually hurts LESS than knowing what the game COULD BE and isnt...
Literally this genre of game is CRYING OUT for a good game, and for a while back in mods 0-2ish, this game was pretty close to what people we looking for... With a few minor issues (like tenebrous).
BDO isnt cutting it - with its endless grinding, massive gear gap and HUGE "P2W" attitude... If people want "dungeon crawlers" then Diablo 3 is amazing, but it offers no real PVP. Most people are so sick of blizzard games and WoW, that while its a mammoth game still, a good competitor could easily eat up a ton of market share.
This game has potential! Not to be a "wow-killer" dont get me wrong... But to fill a niche roll in this market that people are LOOKING FOR.
This game, if it continues down this path, is just another STO - dead game, with little progression and a small player base.
Look at what this game USED TO BE guys... it was simple. It was fun. The gear gap was smaller than it is now. New players could get on, level to 60 and buy BLUE gear from the AH, spend $20 and be reasonably competitive in PVP with rank 7s.
Each and every module and increased the burden on the player trying to step into PVP. Module 1 wasnt so bad, it brought new blue gear which was cool, but then brought boons - ok not so bad...formorian weapons were another big gear gap - although MOST people didnt have them... MOST players were rocking CN set which was really good, but again not a HUGE bump over other items and some player even PREFERRED other items for the stats like regen even!
module 2 brought MORE boons and brought a bigger gear gap with VT weapons and gear, which now MOST people had much better items... which was now a bigger jump up (gear gap) than before. It also was the "beginning of the end" in my book since the Emblem was a "must have" for PVP. So players had emblem or didnt...
Module 3 again brought larger gear gap, more boons to farm (larger gear gap) and we had now tenacity items, so a NEW player couldnt just hit 60, get some average gear and go into PVP. They now had to pvp without tenacity, to get tenacity - which is silly IMO...
Each and every module since then has released new 'MUST HAVE" weapons with artifact equipment, more boons, more blah blah blah that furthens the gap between NEW players and EXISTING players. Which is causing all sorts of issues. Seasoned players have no challenge since gear gap is too high, new players get ROFLstromped in PVP.... Things like solo Q and premade Qs really wont do all that much to help.
What needs to happen is what I have written a few times.
- Boons need to be REMOVED from Domination and GG. Period. Only Stronghold Boons should work in Strongholds. The "BOONS" should be PVE only - with the ONLY exception being the PVP boons being available in PVP and I would even encourage a re-do of this system. Also all the module boons would now not need to be worried how it affects PVP. Its "optional PVE content" that allows you to make your PVE character stronger. You dont NEED these in PVP!
- Tenacity is a HUGE gear wall between players and divides content (see post I wrote above this one for details) Needs to be GONE and every character just needs to be given a healthy level of tenacity for PVP purposes for FREE without needing any stats to stack.
- Mounts/Insignias - these need to NOT work in PVP. Allow then in PVE, its fine, its more to grind for, but it only creates problems in PVP and furthens the gear gap.
- Self healing items - these are FAR FAR too strong. Need to be nerfed. Even for PVE they are ridiculous.... They are OP in PVP at HALF the effectiveness, but somehow are "OK" in PVE? NO WAY! They are RIDICULOUSLY strong in PVE too!
- Id even suggest that of the FOUR artifacts you get, only the PRIMARY gives any benefit to PVP. These provide massive stat bonuses that again cause a HUGE gear gap between players.
If you make these changes, you will have massively lessened the gear gap from new players to existing. Now the biggest gear gaps would be back to enchants, and artifact equipment, which I get you guys like... but the above changes I think would be enough to "level" the playing field by ALOT and make PVP more fun and competitive again. Which will get more players doing it, and EVEN bring A LOT of players back to the game to play PVP.
Now a new player can come into the game and it will NEVER be like module 0 ever was... But he doesnt feel like he needs every boon, every mount, every insignia, etc to do PVP. He can take a base character, with some basic gear, and atleast make an IMPACT in PVP. As of right now, anyone who isnt basically BIS gear is just fodder...
You can have all the Tenacity you want if you have 0 defense and or 0 deflection you are still going to die fast.
so now we are discussing all the ways not to build a pvp Character then ? and hypothetical stuff ? is the subject how to gimp yourself and reduce performance in pvp
perhaps you should start up a new forum topic : D since you seem to be an expert on the subject
if you have a sub optimal build and wrong feats you will also die fast in PVP
if you have an old screen and a broken keyboard and 2 left hands you will also die fast in PVP
Why would a player grind for tenacity gears armor and rings and take all the effort and time and not optimize his other stats ?? this must be someone really special just lol dude are you describing yourself then ?
on Removing stuffs you would fix nothing, this is why "NW is constantly broken ppl call to remove things and later on they will things back... it's an endless circle of nonsense, we doing now over 3 years..
If u want to play competitive pvp as a completely new player to the Game a fresh lv70 Char, than play Mobas or BnS - korean server or games like overwatch. comparing a new player with and older Player it's just ridiculous, of course it have to be differents this an MMORPG,
to tenacity it is the "opposite of a wall and it's ignored by many skills anyway, The Problem is not tenacity , self healing or any Boons/Mounts what ever, it's simply the matchmaking itself,
if we would have 3 Different PvP Queue Options, we wouldn't have any problems, (or at least not as many as right now)
1. Beginner queue max 2k IL 2. Advanced queue max 3k IL 3. Master Queue 3k to max (just examples it can be 3,5k etc)
To fix the Abuse of IL we just need to add an auto-kick, once you enter a queue and ur "Itemlevel increase over the border" you will be automatically kicked, thats all.
To improve this queues; Trans/R12/Mythics/legendary gear need and overall a higher IL Points. +100 IL Points also Burst-DMG/Piercing-dmg need to tune down,
<::::::[]==0 GwF 0==[]::::::> ● Still waiting for the promised Improvement ●
I think it would only work if there were dual spec in the game as many have suggested with this small tweak ...
The First 1 would be your pve spec The second spec would be the pvp spec that tracked your max item level for bracketing
So a player could still be in Pvp Q while doing pve stuff and not have to worry about a gear lock messing up his potential pve damage ..
also in the event that a player had no pvp gear or spec or even blank it would supply basic pvp gear and basic rank7 and basic enchants (so even if blank or a player that did nothing to gear up it would still supply something with basic tenacity and such )
I think it would only work if there were dual spec in the game as many have suggested with this small tweak ...
The First 1 would be your pve spec The second spec would be the pvp spec that tracked your max item level for bracketing
So a player could still be in Pvp Q while doing pve stuff and not have to worry about a gear lock messing up his potential pve damage ..
Now 2 spec are not necessary, PvP items is much better than PvE. PvE of a capability cause less loss than PvP and their efficiency is extremely small. Wild dependence on IL+stronghold.
@xgrandz02 also in the event that a player had no pvp gear or spec or even blank it would supply basic pvp gear and basic rank7 and basic enchants (so even if blank or a player that did nothing to gear up it would still supply something with basic tenacity and such )
"rank7 and basic enchants" are not capable to resist even minimum against 12 lvl
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kalina311Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,082Arc User
I think it would only work if there were dual spec in the game as many have suggested with this small tweak ...
The First 1 would be your pve spec The second spec would be the pvp spec that tracked your max item level for bracketing
So a player could still be in Pvp Q while doing pve stuff and not have to worry about a gear lock messing up his potential pve damage ..
Now 2 spec are not necessary, PvP items is much better than PvE. PvE of a capability cause less loss than PvP and their efficiency is extremely small. Wild dependence on IL+stronghold.
@xgrandz02 also in the event that a player had no pvp gear or spec or even blank it would supply basic pvp gear and basic rank7 and basic enchants (so even if blank or a player that did nothing to gear up it would still supply something with basic tenacity and such )
"rank7 and basic enchants" are not capable to resist even minimum against 12 lvl
You are wrong you just dont get it this is to prevent gear swapping to have a fair item level balanced match ... and still let people stay in Q
Here is why some people have grinded their pve stuff and have colored or with kits it etc and want to keep it on (they dont care if you believe That pvp items are better cause they did not grind for them ) certain stats are better on pve gear for mixing and matching ...
so while they are in Q for pvp they still have their enchants with their dragon hoard on or quartermasters or whatever and are using pve overloads and doing their pve stuff
as soon as Q pops ....
point 2 they would get an basic set of Pvp gear which would put them In the first matchmaking bracket 2k-3k for example as they upgraded it they would move up brackets cause their item level would go up... they would not be going against someone with 12s on
the 2 specs are to lock your items level and gear for pvp to have proper balanced match making and also for Pve players cant complainand rightly so) to show up with no gear at all and then they cant grind to get better gear Pvp rewards would include option for them to slowly upgrade sets or option to buy some box /or get some reward that speed up the getting of such set
The new game mode I would most like to see is an in party duel mode, where people can join a party and enter an arena where team damage is enabled and party buffs and healing are disabled, so you and your friends can practice duels or just play a crazy FFA, with no timers and no scoring other than K/D.
You are wrong you just dont get it this is to prevent gear swapping to have a fair item level balanced match ... and still let people stay in Q
Here is why some people have grinded their pve stuff and have colored or with kits it etc and want to keep it on (they dont care if you believe That pvp items are better cause they did not grind for them ) certain stats are better on pve gear for mixing and matching ...
so while they are in Q for pvp they still have their enchants with their dragon hoard on or quartermasters or whatever and are using pve overloads and doing their pve stuff
as soon as Q pops ....
point 2 they would get an basic set of Pvp gear which would put them In the first matchmaking bracket 2k-3k for example as they upgraded it they would move up brackets cause their item level would go up... they would not be going against someone with 12s on
the 2 specs are to lock your items level and gear for pvp to have proper balanced match making and also for Pve players cant complainand rightly so) to show up with no gear at all and then they cant grind to get better gear Pvp rewards would include option for them to slowly upgrade sets or option to buy some box /or get some reward that speed up the getting of such set
We likely play different games:
Collected group of the dressed players, winning constantly PvP fights dresses the new player in PvP-items and he very comfortably feels both in PvP and in PvE.
It is possible to dress quickly 130-135 blue PvE items, I only pound from them any, to run with 2k IL in the current game = to be meat. To use PvE items artifacts = for example the full catalyst is necessary, personally to me he in one and a half years has never dropped out though I constantly go on the strongest PvE of bosses.
Quantity of 5 lvl magic stones, for improvement = it in general something... how many they are necessary to make 1 of 4 artifacts? 10k? 100k?
If there are 2 spec that the place in bags won't be at all.
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kalina311Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,082Arc User
You are wrong you just dont get it this is to prevent gear swapping to have a fair item level balanced match ... and still let people stay in Q
Here is why some people have grinded their pve stuff and have colored or with kits it etc and want to keep it on (they dont care if you believe That pvp items are better cause they did not grind for them ) certain stats are better on pve gear for mixing and matching ...
so while they are in Q for pvp they still have their enchants with their dragon hoard on or quartermasters or whatever and are using pve overloads and doing their pve stuff
as soon as Q pops ....
point 2 they would get an basic set of Pvp gear which would put them In the first matchmaking bracket 2k-3k for example as they upgraded it they would move up brackets cause their item level would go up... they would not be going against someone with 12s on
the 2 specs are to lock your items level and gear for pvp to have proper balanced match making and also for Pve players cant complainand rightly so) to show up with no gear at all and then they cant grind to get better gear Pvp rewards would include option for them to slowly upgrade sets or option to buy some box /or get some reward that speed up the getting of such set
We likely play different games:
Collected group of the dressed players, winning constantly PvP fights dresses the new player in PvP-items and he very comfortably feels both in PvP and in PvE.
It is possible to dress quickly 130-135 blue PvE items, I only pound from them any, to run with 2k IL in the current game = to be meat. To use PvE items artifacts = for example the full catalyst is necessary, personally to me he in one and a half years has never dropped out though I constantly go on the strongest PvE of bosses.
Quantity of 5 lvl magic stones, for improvement = it in general something... how many they are necessary to make 1 of 4 artifacts? 10k? 100k?
If there are 2 spec that the place in bags won't be at all.
More like we speak different Languages ..You just won the award for least understandable post in this section
you would not be facing a fully dressed team or premade because of solo Queue and item level brackets
you dont seem to get it the whole point of the dual spec is the have proper matches and proper bracketing and to insure that even if someone is lazy or does nothing or does not want to even gear up or its an alt he is grinding for pvp shards for his stronghold he can still be fairly bracketed in the lowest level and not sabotage other peoples matches and not complain about balance and pay to win and blah blah
really bad google translation just delete your post please your post makes no sense in real space or time or in any dimension or in this universe or in this game
P.S the second pvp spec will have a 2nd cloned set your of artifacts or whatever you want why are we even discussing artifact refinement
P.S.S They just added extra bag space as a reward you dont want balanced pvp because you might run out of bag space ...just lol dude ...the equipment would be locked in the pvp slots and would not take any bag space or would have its own dedicated bag ...every possible pve whinny excuse not to not pvp fairly or balanced must be thought of ...
you dont seem to get it the whole point of the dual spec is the have proper matches and proper bracketing and to insure that even if someone is lazy or does nothing or does not want to even gear up or its an alt he is grinding for pvp shards for his stronghold he can still be fairly bracketed in the lowest level and not sabotage other peoples matches and not complain about balance and pay to win and blah blah
13 lvl stronghold with my participation, 100% progress in all zones (companies), except PvP (there are no fights, they are absent just). And after that... lazy = brains 0.
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kalina311Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,082Arc User
*Sigh* your waits are so long because there is no perceived balance ...regardless of platform played on xbox or pc and cause rewards for playing are not so good and because pvp some rewards are still level 60 for like forever
on Removing stuffs you would fix nothing, this is why "NW is constantly broken ppl call to remove things and later on they will things back... it's an endless circle of nonsense, we doing now over 3 years..
If u want to play competitive pvp as a completely new player to the Game a fresh lv70 Char, than play Mobas or BnS - korean server or games like overwatch. comparing a new player with and older Player it's just ridiculous, of course it have to be differents this an MMORPG,
to tenacity it is the "opposite of a wall and it's ignored by many skills anyway, The Problem is not tenacity , self healing or any Boons/Mounts what ever, it's simply the matchmaking itself,
if we would have 3 Different PvP Queue Options, we wouldn't have any problems, (or at least not as many as right now)
1. Beginner queue max 2k IL 2. Advanced queue max 3k IL 3. Master Queue 3k to max (just examples it can be 3,5k etc)
To fix the Abuse of IL we just need to add an auto-kick, once you enter a queue and ur "Itemlevel increase over the border" you will be automatically kicked, thats all.
To improve this queues; Trans/R12/Mythics/legendary gear need and overall a higher IL Points. +100 IL Points also Burst-DMG/Piercing-dmg need to tune down,
"pl call to remove things and later on they will things back... "
- See the problem isnt REMOVING things, the issue is them bringing them back. Like they removed self healing or atleast cut it down TO bring out tenacity. But then they brought MORE self healing back in the form of items... THAT is the issue. They "fix" OP items - like Emblem... but then release even MORE OP items that later need fixing. Thus the constant cycle. This is why we need to go to a minimalist PVP experience where power creep cannot come in and destroy balance. By removing boons you create massive impact to the PVP game where so many things cause balance issues - like Endless consumption ALONE doubles your lifesteal... Which is why DPS classes can self heal so much. Not just that, but how many % of lifesteal can you get from it too? How much crit severity bonuses... healing boons.... etc etc.
"tenacity it is the "opposite of a wall and it's ignored by many skills anyway, The Problem is not tenacity , self healing or any Boons/Mounts what ever, it's simply the matchmaking itself,"
- False. The game has become NOT fun due to all these mechanics. Back in module 2-3 I remember having a TWO hour match. You could argue this was "incredibly balanced" since both teams were able to abuse things to make themselves OP. My point is, just because matchmaking would "match 2 OP teams" doesnt mean we shouldnt address what makes them OP in the first place. Also this does nothing to address the lack of population and in fact only SPLITs the population further. If you want more people to play, you need to create a smaller gear gap so that you have a larger VIABLE opponent base in which to match people. Right now, the fact that 1 BIS player could take on an entire TEAM of new 70s, shows you just how far the gear gap goes... I dont recall being able to do that in previous modules as easily as you can now... The gear gap was smaller, meaning larger population, meaning faster ques and more fun for ALL types of players. Not to mention there are SEVERAL issues with trying to make this "item level bracketing" as you outline.
1) Players trying to "twink". You will have guys that find the BEST min/max of an item bracket, abusing things that create massive power influxes AND boons. Even if you try and find some "system" to boost item level, there are going to be BIG impacts (like trans negation and trans fey) compared to other enchants. So a player can "twink" themselves for that bracket to create imbalance and the OTHER issue is then you now limit players from being able to do PVE while in PVP Q because they want to play with friends, or quest or anything...
2) You now have to spend a TON of time assigning "fair" item level adjustments to EVERYTHING. This is a ton of work and will create more balance issues as they will certainly FAIL at taking everything into account.
3) Auto-kick only punishes the players team, imagine quing into a match and then having 2 players get auto-kicked for clicking a wrong item... you might as well not leave spawn.
No, I think the BEST solution that I keep coming back to, is to remove ALL the boons from domination to create a more simple balance and Que system. I do think creating a "high water mark" on item level - that is tracked and maybe even part of your character Bio page, to use that for matchmaking would be the best way to do this.
You lessen the gear gap AND allow players to use anything they want in PVE while Qued and create better games for ALL without reducing the population. The issue is gear gap. nothing else.
If gear gap was MUCH smaller people wouldnt complain as much about mis-matched games because with reasonable coordination, 2 guys could nuke down some BIS dude and take a node. Currently though, the BIS guy GLANCES in their direction and kills them... The power gap is too large right now... Its honestly ALMOST like having a "Que" in which players 11-69 ALL are put together under 1 que and boosted up to 69... The lvl 11 guys would just get DUMPED on because the power gap is too strong.... Thats how large the gap has become at 70... Itemlevel isnt reliable enough to do the job of balance.... They need to adjust pvp power creep down to make the game fun again.
You are wrong you just dont get it this is to prevent gear swapping to have a fair item level balanced match ... and still let people stay in Q
Here is why some people have grinded their pve stuff and have colored or with kits it etc and want to keep it on (they dont care if you believe That pvp items are better cause they did not grind for them ) certain stats are better on pve gear for mixing and matching ...
so while they are in Q for pvp they still have their enchants with their dragon hoard on or quartermasters or whatever and are using pve overloads and doing their pve stuff
as soon as Q pops ....
point 2 they would get an basic set of Pvp gear which would put them In the first matchmaking bracket 2k-3k for example as they upgraded it they would move up brackets cause their item level would go up... they would not be going against someone with 12s on
the 2 specs are to lock your items level and gear for pvp to have proper balanced match making and also for Pve players cant complainand rightly so) to show up with no gear at all and then they cant grind to get better gear Pvp rewards would include option for them to slowly upgrade sets or option to buy some box /or get some reward that speed up the getting of such set
We likely play different games:
Collected group of the dressed players, winning constantly PvP fights dresses the new player in PvP-items and he very comfortably feels both in PvP and in PvE.
It is possible to dress quickly 130-135 blue PvE items, I only pound from them any, to run with 2k IL in the current game = to be meat. To use PvE items artifacts = for example the full catalyst is necessary, personally to me he in one and a half years has never dropped out though I constantly go on the strongest PvE of bosses.
Quantity of 5 lvl magic stones, for improvement = it in general something... how many they are necessary to make 1 of 4 artifacts? 10k? 100k?
If there are 2 spec that the place in bags won't be at all.
More like we speak different Languages ..You just won the award for least understandable post in this section
you would not be facing a fully dressed team or premade because of solo Queue and item level brackets
you dont seem to get it the whole point of the dual spec is the have proper matches and proper bracketing and to insure that even if someone is lazy or does nothing or does not want to even gear up or its an alt he is grinding for pvp shards for his stronghold he can still be fairly bracketed in the lowest level and not sabotage other peoples matches and not complain about balance and pay to win and blah blah
really bad google translation just delete your post please your post makes no sense in real space or time or in any dimension or in this universe or in this game
P.S the second pvp spec will have a 2nd cloned set your of artifacts or whatever you want why are we even discussing artifact refinement
P.S.S They just added extra bag space as a reward you dont want balanced pvp because you might run out of bag space ...just lol dude ...the equipment would be locked in the pvp slots and would not take any bag space or would have its own dedicated bag ...every possible pve whinny excuse not to not pvp fairly or balanced must be thought of ...
See I think the "PVP" spec and dual spec idea could easily accomplish the "minimalistic" PVP approach.
You "bring over" onto your PVP tab whatever gear you want in select items... You can remove secondary artifacts. It could NOT include boons, etc etc. So you have a "PVP tab" that is THE character that is ported over into PVP. It shows all your base stats, and can be very minimalistic. IMO this is a great way to do this approach. +1 to this idea.
Sounds like the solo queue option is pretty popular. I wanted to ask a few questions. THIS IS NOT A PROMISE OF ANYTHING. It’s just me asking some questions.
If we had a Domination solo queue, 1) Should it allow two people to queue together also (“duo queue”)? Or should it be strictly solo? 2) Is everyone OK with 3 and 4 person groups (and maybe 2 person, depending on your answer to #1) not being able to queue for Domination? I ask the second question because if one queue is solo, then the other queue pretty much has to be 5-person (if you had a 4-person group in that queue, where would you find a 5th? no solo person will want to be in the premade queue!). This is a price I’d be willing to pay (I solo queue for Domination a lot on live, so I am totally feeling everyone’s pain!), but I wanted to see what other people thought.
Comments
Yeah for sure, imagine pvp without tenacity - in the times when people gain 30k power 18k arpen and players hit by 100-150k mostly, without tenacity it will be "5 atwill hits"
Back healing from regen?? Man ppl got heal from wheel, arti weapons, drowcraft shirt/pants and brutal life steal u want to back regen heal for real??
Describe why you think tenacity is useless or more importantly what do you think it does?
Failure to respond/ describe some insight as to why tenacity should be removed just makes make people skip over all your other points and only serves to discredit you
To remove tenacity would require removing all gear that was very hard to work for and grind and has different stat distribution
so they just remove it off the gear then what ?? add some random stat of your choice ? their choice ?? who's choice
what about all the investment into the gear ?
Why not petition for base tenacity to be slightly increased or stat curves adjusted then that would/should have be your suggestion if you had any understanding of what was going on
This would help casuals more and people with moderate gear more and also help with mixing and matching of pvp /pve sets and equipment and promote build diversity
Tenacity is meant to prolong a fight your suggestion of removing it does just the opposite there would not be time for regen to kick in to heal any meaningful amount (.if anything it would only work out of combat ) before you are bursted down due to lack of tenacity / defenses
''..REMOVE THE USELESS STAT OF TENACITY ,BRING BACK HEALING WITH REGENERATION STAT DURING FIGHTS..''"
Why not change the tenacity to reduce % incoming damge/healing from player instead of just add the additional layers of resistances. Might resolve 1 shot
Step 1) REMOVE tenacity STAT
Step 2) Provide EVERYONE a "base" tenacity just as a flat bonus without any stats equal to the CURRENT tenacity levels. Players already get a 10% "base" tenacity. So just increase this to appropriate levels and remove the STAT. What this does is allows the use of ANY gear for PVP which is a huge problem because each module you have divided the player base into PVE and PVP. When you release a new dungeon or PVE set of gear you also have to release ANOTHER pvp set and a way to achieve that - which the removal of tenacity allows to focus and release ONE set of gear - which players can viably use for PVP.
As for regen healing - NO. We need this to go the OTHER way and LESS self healing not more... They need to go through and nerf hammer ALL the self healing items and abilities used by NON healing classes... Insignias, water wheel, water weapons, abilities, and ESPECIALLY change "endless consumption" to either a flat severity boost OR a flat lifesteal % - NOT a chance to triple your heal.
This would be a massive massive balance change to PVP that would be HUGE and balance the game a ton.
What is really interesting about this game, is... The current state of the game is bad, but that actually hurts LESS than knowing what the game COULD BE and isnt...
Literally this genre of game is CRYING OUT for a good game, and for a while back in mods 0-2ish, this game was pretty close to what people we looking for... With a few minor issues (like tenebrous).
BDO isnt cutting it - with its endless grinding, massive gear gap and HUGE "P2W" attitude...
If people want "dungeon crawlers" then Diablo 3 is amazing, but it offers no real PVP.
Most people are so sick of blizzard games and WoW, that while its a mammoth game still, a good competitor could easily eat up a ton of market share.
This game has potential! Not to be a "wow-killer" dont get me wrong... But to fill a niche roll in this market that people are LOOKING FOR.
This game, if it continues down this path, is just another STO - dead game, with little progression and a small player base.
Look at what this game USED TO BE guys... it was simple. It was fun. The gear gap was smaller than it is now. New players could get on, level to 60 and buy BLUE gear from the AH, spend $20 and be reasonably competitive in PVP with rank 7s.
Each and every module and increased the burden on the player trying to step into PVP. Module 1 wasnt so bad, it brought new blue gear which was cool, but then brought boons - ok not so bad...formorian weapons were another big gear gap - although MOST people didnt have them... MOST players were rocking CN set which was really good, but again not a HUGE bump over other items and some player even PREFERRED other items for the stats like regen even!
module 2 brought MORE boons and brought a bigger gear gap with VT weapons and gear, which now MOST people had much better items... which was now a bigger jump up (gear gap) than before. It also was the "beginning of the end" in my book since the Emblem was a "must have" for PVP. So players had emblem or didnt...
Module 3 again brought larger gear gap, more boons to farm (larger gear gap) and we had now tenacity items, so a NEW player couldnt just hit 60, get some average gear and go into PVP. They now had to pvp without tenacity, to get tenacity - which is silly IMO...
Each and every module since then has released new 'MUST HAVE" weapons with artifact equipment, more boons, more blah blah blah that furthens the gap between NEW players and EXISTING players. Which is causing all sorts of issues. Seasoned players have no challenge since gear gap is too high, new players get ROFLstromped in PVP.... Things like solo Q and premade Qs really wont do all that much to help.
What needs to happen is what I have written a few times.
- Boons need to be REMOVED from Domination and GG. Period. Only Stronghold Boons should work in Strongholds. The "BOONS" should be PVE only - with the ONLY exception being the PVP boons being available in PVP and I would even encourage a re-do of this system. Also all the module boons would now not need to be worried how it affects PVP. Its "optional PVE content" that allows you to make your PVE character stronger. You dont NEED these in PVP!
- Tenacity is a HUGE gear wall between players and divides content (see post I wrote above this one for details) Needs to be GONE and every character just needs to be given a healthy level of tenacity for PVP purposes for FREE without needing any stats to stack.
- Mounts/Insignias - these need to NOT work in PVP. Allow then in PVE, its fine, its more to grind for, but it only creates problems in PVP and furthens the gear gap.
- Self healing items - these are FAR FAR too strong. Need to be nerfed. Even for PVE they are ridiculous.... They are OP in PVP at HALF the effectiveness, but somehow are "OK" in PVE? NO WAY! They are RIDICULOUSLY strong in PVE too!
- Id even suggest that of the FOUR artifacts you get, only the PRIMARY gives any benefit to PVP. These provide massive stat bonuses that again cause a HUGE gear gap between players.
If you make these changes, you will have massively lessened the gear gap from new players to existing. Now the biggest gear gaps would be back to enchants, and artifact equipment, which I get you guys like... but the above changes I think would be enough to "level" the playing field by ALOT and make PVP more fun and competitive again. Which will get more players doing it, and EVEN bring A LOT of players back to the game to play PVP.
Now a new player can come into the game and it will NEVER be like module 0 ever was... But he doesnt feel like he needs every boon, every mount, every insignia, etc to do PVP. He can take a base character, with some basic gear, and atleast make an IMPACT in PVP. As of right now, anyone who isnt basically BIS gear is just fodder...
Tenacity is meant to prolong a fight your suggestion ...
& how's that working for you?
hmmmm 12 deaths so far this mod in 100s of matches ..in pvp guess tenacity is not working for me lol
foot in mouth much brah ???
Tenacity is working just fine for me unlike your quoting skills that was my post fragment...you poorly quoted
what exactly is your point ? That you hope it was not working for me so that you could be sarcastic ?
I'm ones of the Tankiest Cws in the game ....
well that backfired on you fast if your pvp skills are the same as your forums skilIs I guess you are right no amount of tenacity will help "you"
you took 1 line from a reply I made that was on the subject of removing tenacity ( in favour of an even more crazy suggestion ..substituting regen )
This discussion is about suggestions to new pvp modes in case you had not noticed sir
only make bold (false) claims against known Vet players and thier suggestions if you can back them up thanks
http://neverwinterarena.freeforums.net/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4p_X0pLYeyKs3ZbMD_7OxQ
is the subject how to gimp yourself and reduce performance in pvp
perhaps you should start up a new forum topic : D since you seem to be an expert on the subject
if you have a sub optimal build and wrong feats you will also die fast in PVP
if you have an old screen and a broken keyboard and 2 left hands you will also die fast in PVP
Why would a player grind for tenacity gears armor and rings and take all the effort and time and not optimize his other stats ?? this must be someone really special just lol dude are you describing yourself then ?
on Removing stuffs you would fix nothing,
this is why "NW is constantly broken ppl call to remove things and later on they will things back...
it's an endless circle of nonsense, we doing now over 3 years..
If u want to play competitive pvp as a completely new player to the Game a fresh lv70 Char,
than play Mobas or BnS - korean server or games like overwatch.
comparing a new player with and older Player it's just ridiculous,
of course it have to be differents this an MMORPG,
to tenacity it is the "opposite of a wall and it's ignored by many skills anyway,
The Problem is not tenacity , self healing or any Boons/Mounts what ever,
it's simply the matchmaking itself,
if we would have 3 Different PvP Queue Options,
we wouldn't have any problems, (or at least not as many as right now)
1. Beginner queue max 2k IL
2. Advanced queue max 3k IL
3. Master Queue 3k to max
(just examples it can be 3,5k etc)
To fix the Abuse of IL we just need to add an auto-kick,
once you enter a queue and ur "Itemlevel increase over the border"
you will be automatically kicked, thats all.
To improve this queues; Trans/R12/Mythics/legendary gear need and overall a higher IL Points. +100 IL Points
also Burst-DMG/Piercing-dmg need to tune down,
I think it would only work if there were dual spec in the game as many have suggested with this small tweak ...
The First 1 would be your pve spec
The second spec would be the pvp spec that tracked your max item level for bracketing
So a player could still be in Pvp Q while doing pve stuff and not have to worry about a gear lock messing up his potential pve damage ..
also in the event that a player had no pvp gear or spec or even blank it would supply basic pvp gear and basic rank7 and basic enchants (so even if blank or a player that did nothing to gear up it would still supply something with basic tenacity and such )
and still let people stay in Q
Here is why some people have grinded their pve stuff and have colored or with kits it etc and want to keep it on
(they dont care if you believe That pvp items are better cause they did not grind for them ) certain stats are better on pve gear for mixing and matching ...
so while they are in Q for pvp they still have their enchants with their dragon hoard on or quartermasters or whatever
and are using pve overloads and doing their pve stuff
as soon as Q pops ....
point 2 they would get an basic set of Pvp gear which would put them In the first matchmaking bracket 2k-3k for example
as they upgraded it they would move up brackets cause their item level would go up... they would not be going against someone with 12s on
the 2 specs are to lock your items level and gear for pvp to have proper balanced match making
and also for Pve players cant complainand rightly so) to show up with no gear at all and then they cant grind to get better gear
Pvp rewards would include option for them to slowly upgrade sets or option to buy some box /or get some reward that speed up the getting of such set
Collected group of the dressed players, winning constantly PvP fights dresses the new player in PvP-items and he very comfortably feels both in PvP and in PvE.
It is possible to dress quickly 130-135 blue PvE items, I only pound from them any, to run with 2k IL in the current game = to be meat. To use PvE items artifacts = for example the full catalyst is necessary, personally to me he in one and a half years has never dropped out though I constantly go on the strongest PvE of bosses.
Quantity of 5 lvl magic stones, for improvement = it in general something... how many they are necessary to make 1 of 4 artifacts? 10k? 100k?
If there are 2 spec that the place in bags won't be at all.
you would not be facing a fully dressed team or premade because of solo Queue and item level brackets
you dont seem to get it the whole point of the dual spec is the have proper matches and proper bracketing and to insure that even if someone is lazy or does nothing or does not want to even gear up or its an alt he is grinding for pvp shards for his stronghold he can still be fairly bracketed in the lowest level and not sabotage other peoples matches and not complain about balance and pay to win and blah blah
really bad google translation just delete your post please your post makes no sense in real space or time or in any dimension or in this universe or in this game
P.S the second pvp spec will have a 2nd cloned set your of artifacts or whatever you want why are we even discussing artifact refinement
P.S.S They just added extra bag space as a reward you dont want balanced pvp because you might run out of bag space ...just lol dude ...the equipment would be locked in the pvp slots and would not take any bag space or would have its own dedicated bag ...every possible pve whinny excuse not to not pvp fairly or balanced must be thought of ...
and cause rewards for playing are not so good and because pvp some rewards are still level 60 for like forever
"pl call to remove things and later on they will things back... "
- See the problem isnt REMOVING things, the issue is them bringing them back. Like they removed self healing or atleast cut it down TO bring out tenacity. But then they brought MORE self healing back in the form of items... THAT is the issue. They "fix" OP items - like Emblem... but then release even MORE OP items that later need fixing. Thus the constant cycle. This is why we need to go to a minimalist PVP experience where power creep cannot come in and destroy balance. By removing boons you create massive impact to the PVP game where so many things cause balance issues - like Endless consumption ALONE doubles your lifesteal... Which is why DPS classes can self heal so much. Not just that, but how many % of lifesteal can you get from it too? How much crit severity bonuses... healing boons.... etc etc.
"tenacity it is the "opposite of a wall and it's ignored by many skills anyway,
The Problem is not tenacity , self healing or any Boons/Mounts what ever,
it's simply the matchmaking itself,"
- False. The game has become NOT fun due to all these mechanics. Back in module 2-3 I remember having a TWO hour match. You could argue this was "incredibly balanced" since both teams were able to abuse things to make themselves OP. My point is, just because matchmaking would "match 2 OP teams" doesnt mean we shouldnt address what makes them OP in the first place. Also this does nothing to address the lack of population and in fact only SPLITs the population further. If you want more people to play, you need to create a smaller gear gap so that you have a larger VIABLE opponent base in which to match people. Right now, the fact that 1 BIS player could take on an entire TEAM of new 70s, shows you just how far the gear gap goes... I dont recall being able to do that in previous modules as easily as you can now... The gear gap was smaller, meaning larger population, meaning faster ques and more fun for ALL types of players. Not to mention there are SEVERAL issues with trying to make this "item level bracketing" as you outline.
1) Players trying to "twink". You will have guys that find the BEST min/max of an item bracket, abusing things that create massive power influxes AND boons. Even if you try and find some "system" to boost item level, there are going to be BIG impacts (like trans negation and trans fey) compared to other enchants. So a player can "twink" themselves for that bracket to create imbalance and the OTHER issue is then you now limit players from being able to do PVE while in PVP Q because they want to play with friends, or quest or anything...
2) You now have to spend a TON of time assigning "fair" item level adjustments to EVERYTHING. This is a ton of work and will create more balance issues as they will certainly FAIL at taking everything into account.
3) Auto-kick only punishes the players team, imagine quing into a match and then having 2 players get auto-kicked for clicking a wrong item... you might as well not leave spawn.
No, I think the BEST solution that I keep coming back to, is to remove ALL the boons from domination to create a more simple balance and Que system. I do think creating a "high water mark" on item level - that is tracked and maybe even part of your character Bio page, to use that for matchmaking would be the best way to do this.
You lessen the gear gap AND allow players to use anything they want in PVE while Qued and create better games for ALL without reducing the population. The issue is gear gap. nothing else.
If gear gap was MUCH smaller people wouldnt complain as much about mis-matched games because with reasonable coordination, 2 guys could nuke down some BIS dude and take a node. Currently though, the BIS guy GLANCES in their direction and kills them... The power gap is too large right now... Its honestly ALMOST like having a "Que" in which players 11-69 ALL are put together under 1 que and boosted up to 69... The lvl 11 guys would just get DUMPED on because the power gap is too strong.... Thats how large the gap has become at 70... Itemlevel isnt reliable enough to do the job of balance.... They need to adjust pvp power creep down to make the game fun again.
You "bring over" onto your PVP tab whatever gear you want in select items... You can remove secondary artifacts. It could NOT include boons, etc etc. So you have a "PVP tab" that is THE character that is ported over into PVP. It shows all your base stats, and can be very minimalistic. IMO this is a great way to do this approach. +1 to this idea.
Best of 3 to win, at least 2 maps.
Sounds like the solo queue option is pretty popular. I wanted to ask a few questions. THIS IS NOT A PROMISE OF ANYTHING. It’s just me asking some questions.
If we had a Domination solo queue,
1) Should it allow two people to queue together also (“duo queue”)? Or should it be strictly solo?
2) Is everyone OK with 3 and 4 person groups (and maybe 2 person, depending on your answer to #1) not being able to queue for Domination?
I ask the second question because if one queue is solo, then the other queue pretty much has to be 5-person (if you had a 4-person group in that queue, where would you find a 5th? no solo person will want to be in the premade queue!). This is a price I’d be willing to pay (I solo queue for Domination a lot on live, so I am totally feeling everyone’s pain!), but I wanted to see what other people thought.