torontodaveMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 992Arc User
what about the 5v5 premade from a queue group?
what about the 10v10 premade (gg/sh siege) from a queue group? =D
strictly solo queue.. duo queues would just solo hit 'queue' at the same time and hope for the best. if you're against each other, just adds friendly fun. ;D
a 4person pvp group would have no trouble finding a 5th.. lfg or alliance chat. =D
no solo person wants to be in teh premade queue.
NW-DSQ39N5SJ - 'To Infinity, and BEYOND!' - Spelljammer Quest. Skyships, Indiana Jones moments NW-DC9R4J5EH - 'The Black Pearl' - Spelljammer! Phlo Riders and Space Orcs
Thanks for all the fish.
I would prefer that Duo queue was allowed. PvP is a very social thing and limiting it to only be able to queue with other randoms would really suck. I don't pvp a lot but when i do I much prefer to be able to have a friend with me who I know i can depend on. This also spills over to helping new/inexperienced players learn. Taking them into a full premade is not a good situation to learn anything since a mistake will cost you the match, but a duo match is generally much more forgiving.
being forced to try and sync solo queue with someone just so you can play with them sucks a lot of fun out of even the idea of pvping. It is why there has always been a large amount of support for a way to do specific pre vs specific pre. timing queue pops sucks
Guild - The Imaginary Friends We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
Sounds like the solo queue option is pretty popular. I wanted to ask a few questions. THIS IS NOT A PROMISE OF ANYTHING. It’s just me asking some questions.
If we had a Domination solo queue, 1) Should it allow two people to queue together also (“duo queue”)? Or should it be strictly solo? 2) Is everyone OK with 3 and 4 person groups (and maybe 2 person, depending on your answer to #1) not being able to queue for Domination? I ask the second question because if one queue is solo, then the other queue pretty much has to be 5-person (if you had a 4-person group in that queue, where would you find a 5th? no solo person will want to be in the premade queue!). This is a price I’d be willing to pay (I solo queue for Domination a lot on live, so I am totally feeling everyone’s pain!), but I wanted to see what other people thought.
Thanks for reading this thread and taking the time to post. I think the Solo Q option COULD be a major boost to morale but IMO still wouldnt solve the issues.
That said. I think the BEST way to implement this would frankly be to keep it as Solo Only. AS much as I want to allow things like Duo Que, the power of two people talking is HUGE over noone talking. Not to mention you can create "troll comps" with just two people. I really hate the idea of restricting PVP to this... Because I think itll only hurt que times and population since most people want to que up together and play socially with friends. Not sit in a que by themselves waiting for it to pop to play by themselves but I just dont know how feasible it is to bring life back to PVP if you dont focus on balancing PVP matches - which means solo Q only then a full premade 5 man Que only.
I think this Solo Q option will ONLY work if you allow players to group up with friends for HEs/PVE stuff and still allow them to solo Q. So they could party with people, when the Solo Q pops, they join the Domination match and it removes them from the party. This allows people to still be social AND creates better balance in Domination.
I think once you do this Solo/Premade Que system the BEST thing to drive participation is to bring BACK the leaderboards HOWEVER DO NOT show kills/deaths on the LB, merely show wins/losses on the LB and have a leaderboard for both the Solo Q and the Premade Q section.
This will get TONS of people back into the game and playing again, both in solo Q and in premades and literally breath the pvp back to life in this game.
josiahiyonMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 396Arc User
solo que-q and 5man-q only makes sense, especially if coupled with working leaderboards and ncl for each. If you had to pick 1 for ncl, pick 5-man. Solo-q for 'pick-up games', 5-man for ranked games.
Sounds like the solo queue option is pretty popular. I wanted to ask a few questions. THIS IS NOT A PROMISE OF ANYTHING. It’s just me asking some questions.
If we had a Domination solo queue, 1) Should it allow two people to queue together also (“duo queue”)? Or should it be strictly solo? 2) Is everyone OK with 3 and 4 person groups (and maybe 2 person, depending on your answer to #1) not being able to queue for Domination? I ask the second question because if one queue is solo, then the other queue pretty much has to be 5-person (if you had a 4-person group in that queue, where would you find a 5th? no solo person will want to be in the premade queue!). This is a price I’d be willing to pay (I solo queue for Domination a lot on live, so I am totally feeling everyone’s pain!), but I wanted to see what other people thought.
Wouldnt it be better the other way around? A premade Q? If you have 5 players and wants to go up against 5 other players in a premade then you have a seperate Q for that? Also a way to organize a match against a specific 5 man group (premade match/inhouses). This should also work in GG/SHPvP.
The other day we had 40 players from the alliance wanting to do 20vs20 and we spent like an hour getting the two teams and then Q, but we never got matched against eachother.... Its HAMSTER.
Anyway, if you dont Q up as 5, then you should be in the "mixed" Q were duo, trio, solo is allowed. I think a forced strict solo Q is gonna hurt the game. I want to be able to play with my friends even if we dont have a full 5 man group. Playing alone is the worst according to me. Its a teamplay based game.
And for god sake add base tenacity or add tencaity gear that can be bought without glory. Forcing players to play X matches to get glory before they can even get tenacity gear is also HAMSTER. Also make it match better against ItemLevel. To often BiS players are forced to play with players with really low gear and no tenacity. Whats the point of that?..
"Obviously there is a problem with pvp balance" Here is a way you could still keep making money, and give players something to shoot for and bragging rights.
Survival PvP One champion who thinks he's got what it takes to take on an entire team single-handed. Allow for a title list for those who excel in this mode as well as extra rewards to that of regular pvp.
Every Man For Himself One or two specific maps that start players off at opposite sides of a gladiator type arena. Last man standing wins.
Costume Party PvP No gear (with an exception to character base weapon allowed) Costumes are a must and will market outfits more as well as bringing in those who want balanced pvp.
@rgutscheradev you made very valid points regarding potential queue changes.
1) Solo queue should definitely be an OPTION for all interested in playing PvP. If the solo queue doesn't pop, the solo queuer makes the choice either to not join a PvP match OR alter their queue preferences.
2) Design a simple checkbox queue preference as seen with our current queue system for solo queuers. For example: [ ] Solo only. [ ] No more than two per group [ ] Any group composition
This way, you satisfy the potential group makeups of:
1+1+1+1+1 (solo only) 2+1+1+1 (no more than two) 2+2+1 (no more than two) 3+1+1 (any) 3+2 (any) 4+1 (any) 5 (any)
If you want to take this a step further, which I will admit will be difficult, you could also create a checkbox to attempt matchmaking balance based on your own internal algorithm. Realistically, the only way that makes sense is to develop an algorithm that considers a player's (or group of players') recent Win/Loss ratio, their Kill/Death ratio (perhaps factor in assists and score), and the relative strength of their previous opponent(s). Factoring ilvl, gear, or tenacity scores will be a disaster as they are all intrinsically poor estimators of skill or balance.
to @d4rkh0rs3 if more then half are premade, its peamde
they don't want to to do it for some reason. i guess they try to do it by score. i am not sure if they give up but it dosnt work good for some time score get reset evey 2 weeks sometimes
kalina311Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,082Arc User
edited June 2016
For people that want to play with friends and not solo Q and not premade Q offer Gauntlegrym map or the icewind dale maps for this mode anything goes free for all mode or rotate the maps to offer different Q able modes every week or featured map or mode during pvp hour to make it fair to people that want experience different mode types on different maps
Just make the maps that you guys worked so hard on in icewind dale to be Q able come on guys or at least the timer to be accurate to announce on the server that the Pvp event will pop there is currently no way of knowing when black ice dom will start ..what a waste ... 2 perfectly good maps for 10 v 10 or 20 v 20 just wasted : (
why are you guys makin it more complicated and we will end up having another **** que for ages, i already said what are the best choices so please bump this idea. 1. -There should be a que for solo and duo que , incase you want to take a friend with you.
2. -There needs to be a que for 5vs5 , where a group of 5 players will que and face a random group of 5 players.
* AND in the same que there needs to be a LOBBY in which you get a total of 10 players in it = 2 groups and que for a insta pop , this will also aleviate the waiting in que that we have to wait normally, this will also open up ways of promoting fair play, if we get this que we can organize even tournaments, it also helps every guild out there even players that are groups made of 2.000 item level and want to que against another group of 2.000 item level they can use the LOBBY system.
@plavia yes, you are correct--a team with 3+ group members would fall into the "any group composition" category.
Edit: The PvP scores being reset every two weeks is actually beneficial in my example as it returns all players to a starting point. Sure, at the beginning of the reset week you could get matched up against seal clubbers, but as the number of matches progress and individuals or groups become more successful, there is less chance you will get matched up against them if things aren't going well for you. If very few people are queueing for PvP, however, the odds of you getting an "undesirable" matchup increases.
@metalldjt I like your idea of a "private" PvP queue for 5v5 premade vs premade. Even a 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, and 4v4 could be done this way. Devil's advocate if this system were to be implemented: NO REWARDS for glory, kills, assists, campaign goals, etc. as this would be an easy way to exploit the game by farming.
why are you guys makin it more complicated and we will end up having another **** que for ages, i already said what are the best choices so please bump this idea. 1. -There should be a que for solo and duo que , incase you want to take a friend with you.
2. -There needs to be a que for 5vs5 , where a group of 5 players will que and face a random group of 5 players.
* AND in the same que there needs to be a LOBBY in which you get a total of 10 players in it = 2 groups and que for a insta pop , this will also aleviate the waiting in que that we have to wait normally, this will also open up ways of promoting fair play, if we get this que we can organize even tournaments, it also helps every guild out there even players that are groups made of 2.000 item level and want to que against another group of 2.000 item level they can use the LOBBY system.
For people that want to play with friends and not solo Q and not premade Q offer Gauntlegrym map or the icewind dale maps for this mode anything goes free for all mode or rotate the maps to offer different Q able modes every week
in every game out there, the both ques are togheter, solo and duo... it is stupid to have just solo que.
dota, league, smite , paragons, cs go etc.
Im just worried there are too many maps and too many Q types until the population grows again ..
why are you guys makin it more complicated and we will end up having another **** que for ages, i already said what are the best choices so please bump this idea. 1. -There should be a que for solo and duo que , incase you want to take a friend with you.
2. -There needs to be a que for 5vs5 , where a group of 5 players will que and face a random group of 5 players.
* AND in the same que there needs to be a LOBBY in which you get a total of 10 players in it = 2 groups and que for a insta pop , this will also aleviate the waiting in que that we have to wait normally, this will also open up ways of promoting fair play, if we get this que we can organize even tournaments, it also helps every guild out there even players that are groups made of 2.000 item level and want to que against another group of 2.000 item level they can use the LOBBY system.
should look like this
i totally agree with that, we want it now !!!
0
kalina311Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,082Arc User
To me, splitting the queues is like putting a Band-Aid on a gushing head wound. It will not solve the issues at hand. There is nothing to stop BIS players from living in solo/duo queue forever, ruining every match. Some kind of equalization scaling or matchmaking is what we need.
I normally dont agree with everything you say but this time I do If I solo Q (which I mostly did for many mods in a row) Top leader board position for kills I will Control The whole match ...and destroy everyone like I did for many mods in a row *boring*
not Only that with solo Q there is still a chance you get a guildy / friend on your team or on the opposite team that can throw the match no one bothered to mention this I had been saving that point...
Solo Q is no defense against super Elite players only item level or bracketing is or bare bones Pvp is or a lobby system
why are you guys makin it more complicated and we will end up having another **** que for ages, i already said what are the best choices so please bump this idea. 1. -There should be a que for solo and duo que , incase you want to take a friend with you.
2. -There needs to be a que for 5vs5 , where a group of 5 players will que and face a random group of 5 players.
* AND in the same que there needs to be a LOBBY in which you get a total of 10 players in it = 2 groups and que for a insta pop , this will also aleviate the waiting in que that we have to wait normally, this will also open up ways of promoting fair play, if we get this que we can organize even tournaments, it also helps every guild out there even players that are groups made of 2.000 item level and want to que against another group of 2.000 item level they can use the LOBBY system.
should look like this
since i m really missing those competitive matches, i ll support u, hope the devs will follow your ideas and make it live :!
0
kalina311Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,082Arc User
edited June 2016
Vip Rank 13 leaderboard actually works : D you are trying to balance matches on a broken elo system with broken leaderboard and a broken database
I would like to see the normal PVP fixed before anyone PVP modes get added.
adding a mode for various players and gear levels and if they are playing on an alt adding some additional modes/ gear and item determination IS an attempt at fix prior to class balancing ..however bare bones mode would be easier to balance instead of comming up with ways to add up item levels via boon item weapon enchants etc to balance a match
0
kalina311Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,082Arc User
why are you guys makin it more complicated and we will end up having another **** que for ages, i already said what are the best choices so please bump this idea. 1. -There should be a que for solo and duo que , incase you want to take a friend with you.
2. -There needs to be a que for 5vs5 , where a group of 5 players will que and face a random group of 5 players.
* AND in the same que there needs to be a LOBBY in which you get a total of 10 players in it = 2 groups and que for a insta pop , this will also aleviate the waiting in que that we have to wait normally, this will also open up ways of promoting fair play, if we get this que we can organize even tournaments, it also helps every guild out there even players that are groups made of 2.000 item level and want to que against another group of 2.000 item level they can use the LOBBY system.
Comments
what about the 10v10 premade (gg/sh siege) from a queue group? =D
strictly solo queue.. duo queues would just solo hit 'queue' at the same time and hope for the best. if you're against each other, just adds friendly fun. ;D
a 4person pvp group would have no trouble finding a 5th.. lfg or alliance chat. =D
no solo person wants to be in teh premade queue.
NW-DC9R4J5EH - 'The Black Pearl' - Spelljammer! Phlo Riders and Space Orcs
Thanks for all the fish.
being forced to try and sync solo queue with someone just so you can play with them sucks a lot of fun out of even the idea of pvping. It is why there has always been a large amount of support for a way to do specific pre vs specific pre. timing queue pops sucks
We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
That said. I think the BEST way to implement this would frankly be to keep it as Solo Only. AS much as I want to allow things like Duo Que, the power of two people talking is HUGE over noone talking. Not to mention you can create "troll comps" with just two people. I really hate the idea of restricting PVP to this... Because I think itll only hurt que times and population since most people want to que up together and play socially with friends. Not sit in a que by themselves waiting for it to pop to play by themselves but I just dont know how feasible it is to bring life back to PVP if you dont focus on balancing PVP matches - which means solo Q only then a full premade 5 man Que only.
I think this Solo Q option will ONLY work if you allow players to group up with friends for HEs/PVE stuff and still allow them to solo Q. So they could party with people, when the Solo Q pops, they join the Domination match and it removes them from the party. This allows people to still be social AND creates better balance in Domination.
I think once you do this Solo/Premade Que system the BEST thing to drive participation is to bring BACK the leaderboards HOWEVER DO NOT show kills/deaths on the LB, merely show wins/losses on the LB and have a leaderboard for both the Solo Q and the Premade Q section.
This will get TONS of people back into the game and playing again, both in solo Q and in premades and literally breath the pvp back to life in this game.
Iyon the Dark
The other day we had 40 players from the alliance wanting to do 20vs20 and we spent like an hour getting the two teams and then Q, but we never got matched against eachother.... Its HAMSTER.
Anyway, if you dont Q up as 5, then you should be in the "mixed" Q were duo, trio, solo is allowed. I think a forced strict solo Q is gonna hurt the game. I want to be able to play with my friends even if we dont have a full 5 man group. Playing alone is the worst according to me. Its a teamplay based game.
And for god sake add base tenacity or add tencaity gear that can be bought without glory. Forcing players to play X matches to get glory before they can even get tenacity gear is also HAMSTER. Also make it match better against ItemLevel. To often BiS players are forced to play with players with really low gear and no tenacity. Whats the point of that?..
▁ ▂ ▄ ▅ ▆ ▇ █ Gankdalf The Icehole █ ▇ ▆ ▅ ▄ ▂ ▁
Survival PvP
One champion who thinks he's got what it takes to take on an entire team single-handed. Allow for a title list for those who excel in this mode as well as extra rewards to that of regular pvp.
Every Man For Himself
One or two specific maps that start players off at opposite sides of a gladiator type arena. Last man standing wins.
Costume Party PvP
No gear (with an exception to character base weapon allowed) Costumes are a must and will market outfits more as well as bringing in those who want balanced pvp.
1) Solo queue should definitely be an OPTION for all interested in playing PvP. If the solo queue doesn't pop, the solo queuer makes the choice either to not join a PvP match OR alter their queue preferences.
2) Design a simple checkbox queue preference as seen with our current queue system for solo queuers. For example:
[ ] Solo only.
[ ] No more than two per group
[ ] Any group composition
This way, you satisfy the potential group makeups of:
1+1+1+1+1 (solo only)
2+1+1+1 (no more than two)
2+2+1 (no more than two)
3+1+1 (any)
3+2 (any)
4+1 (any)
5 (any)
If you want to take this a step further, which I will admit will be difficult, you could also create a checkbox to attempt matchmaking balance based on your own internal algorithm. Realistically, the only way that makes sense is to develop an algorithm that considers a player's (or group of players') recent Win/Loss ratio, their Kill/Death ratio (perhaps factor in assists and score), and the relative strength of their previous opponent(s). Factoring ilvl, gear, or tenacity scores will be a disaster as they are all intrinsically poor estimators of skill or balance.
if more then half are premade, its peamde
they don't want to to do it for some reason. i guess they try to do it by score.
i am not sure if they give up but it dosnt work good for some time
score get reset evey 2 weeks sometimes
offer Gauntlegrym map or the icewind dale maps for this mode anything goes free for all mode
or rotate the maps to offer different Q able modes every week or featured map or mode during pvp hour to make
it fair to people that want experience different mode types on different maps
Just make the maps that you guys worked so hard on in icewind dale to be Q able come on guys
or at least the timer to be accurate to announce on the server that the Pvp event will pop
there is currently no way of knowing when black ice dom will start ..what a waste ... 2 perfectly good maps
for 10 v 10 or 20 v 20 just wasted : (
Edit: The PvP scores being reset every two weeks is actually beneficial in my example as it returns all players to a starting point. Sure, at the beginning of the reset week you could get matched up against seal clubbers, but as the number of matches progress and individuals or groups become more successful, there is less chance you will get matched up against them if things aren't going well for you. If very few people are queueing for PvP, however, the odds of you getting an "undesirable" matchup increases.
@metalldjt I like your idea of a "private" PvP queue for 5v5 premade vs premade. Even a 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, and 4v4 could be done this way. Devil's advocate if this system were to be implemented: NO REWARDS for glory, kills, assists, campaign goals, etc. as this would be an easy way to exploit the game by farming.
+1 hell yeah
Fix pvp pls
I've always been surprised that particularly the lobby mechanic wasn't ported over from STO at the beginning.
I normally dont agree with everything you say but this time I do
If I solo Q (which I mostly did for many mods in a row) Top leader board position for kills
I will Control The whole match ...and destroy everyone like I did for many mods in a row *boring*
not Only that with solo Q there is still a chance you get a guildy / friend on your team or on the opposite team that can throw the match no one bothered to mention this I had been saving that point...
Solo Q is no defense against super Elite players only item level or bracketing is or bare bones Pvp is
or a lobby system
you are trying to balance matches on a broken elo system with broken leaderboard and a broken database
adding some additional modes/ gear and item determination IS an attempt at fix
prior to class balancing ..however bare bones mode would be easier to balance instead of comming up with ways to add up item levels via boon item weapon enchants etc to balance a match