With 60+ pages and counting, I decided to join the scrum and get lost in the churn. This thread contains some quite cogent comments, as well as the absurd. It’s entertaining and informative. Apologies up front for the length my; this is my CliffsNotes version. Yes it really is CliffsNotes, not cliff notes.
Observations:
- Bots, RP farmers, and their ilk, exist because they fill a need and it is profitable, else they would not be doing it.
- People buy from said Bots and their ilk because it fills a need. There are numerous reasons for this, among them: laziness, greed, impatience, a need for instant gratification and advancement, not enough time or money in real life to achieve desired goals within the “official” structure, prices are perceived to be too high or are artificially set (price controls) thereby causing distortions and triggering end run behavior, and the list goes on…
- Any game “income” earning system that does not require effort (save pressing a few buttons), impose character-centric limitations, is largely passive, and is accepted if not outright encouraged by the supplier of that income, can be coopted and done far more efficiently by bots and macros than by real people. Whether this system is good, bad, or indifferent on a virtual economy is a topic for a different discussion. To reference a song first sung by Ethel Merman (showing my age here), “Anything You Can Do (I can bot better).” Botters and RP farmers within the existing system could generate/aggregate AD and RP in a way no human could. To use a more modern reference from the first Terminator movie: “Listen, and understand! That Bot/Farmer is out there! It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead.” Actually, it will keep doing it even after you are dead…
- One thing I’ve learned about MMOs is they generally share at least one goal: to separate your money from you in some way. I fully support this because absent the independently wealthy individual with money to burn and no need for profitability: if there is no profit, there is no game.
- The F2P model shares some traits with drug dealers, give you free samples to establish a baseline rush (addiction), and then make you want more, and more powerful effects. Again, I accept this. Nobody is holding a gun to anyone’s head forcing them to consume these products. I can’t speak for any human AD/RP farmers since I’ve heard unverified rumors that somebody might actually be holding a gun to their heads forcing them to game. And we complain about the grind…
- I’ve seen many comments about content. I suspect that developing said content is far more difficult than many people appreciate. When it comes out, the flaming starts about how crappy it is. When it doesn’t come out, the flaming starts about the lack of content or the crappy state of existing content. I suppose there is a balance in there somewhere, but for some maxed players, it will never, ever be enough. They want to be first, they want to be best, and they are kind of like the bots. They will likely never be satiated. Kudos to them for their dedication though. Capping out toons with no new content, can lead to apathy, whining, dissatisfaction, boredom, and withdrawal. Sounds too much like real life…
- End game. I hear this term bandied about, sometimes with the context that there is actually an end game. I fail to see or understand that context in an MMOG. A boxed game with a start and a finish has an end game in that you play it, and assuming you get to the end and kill Lord God King Bufu, you are done and get to watch the screen credits and bask in the glory. No endless grinding with no end in sight. There might be sequels/prequels, but they are issued as complete packages (and maybe some DLCs as well). MMOs are expected to keep things going ad infinitum and to keep things cool, and awesome, and smexy. A tall order I say, perhaps even impossible. All great empires have been trampled into dust so far as I know. If you want to be Ethel Merman, and think, or know, that you can do MMORPGs better than the rest… well, what are you waiting for? The gaming world may very well be ready for the next WoW, or Dota 2 or Counter-Strike and you can be LGKB and prove to all the clueless gaming execs of the world that you did in fact do it better.
- Leveling… probably as many opinions on this as there are people playing. Point being, nobody has the absolute truth they can impose on anyone else about what is the “right” pace of leveling. For some, being max level with max gear within a week of playing, is 6.5 days too long. For others getting there when they get there is ok. Most people are likely in between. I certainly do not presume to know exactly how quickly I should be leveling, let alone dictate to anyone else (or the devs) what that rate should be. But there is one salient factor that could be considered. If you level faster than content is delivered, undesirable things can happen. Same goes if it takes many months or years to get to a point where you can do higher level content. It is not lost on me that when I started playing nearly 2 years ago, starting from scratch took considerably longer to progress than if I start a toon now with all the benefits my account confers. While I think would like to progress faster than I am now, I am not dissatisfied with where my toons are now. It gives me something to work towards.
- I have "invested" what I consider to be a fair amount on the game, and if I was more sensible with my disposable income I'd probably be doing better things with it. But then, maybe the marginal utility of burning my dollars elsewhere is not as high. Does that make me a wallet warrior? Dunno, but if it helps keep the lights on and the electrons flowing, that's my choice. I am far from an elite player. I am probably a mid-tier to upper mid-tier player (3.1k IL on my main) just chugging along, making bad jokes and puns, and doing the grind, which as has been stated, is not the most pleasant thing to do. And yet, we who are in game, do it.
people arnt going to sell for less then they bought stuff for in a depresion unless they have a family to feed ext which dosnt exist in online games. i think the big disconnect between people on forums is some think that cause they are earning less people will fell bad for them and sell what they have for less which call me a cynic but i dont see happening its not like you have to pay mooring fees on a horn of lostmauth ect.
assuming you play one char and at a conservative estimate it costs 30mill ad to get all your gear fully built thats 1250 days of geting your 24k in 4 or 5 maps that whole time....
i think theres factory workers in china that would laugh at us
i was enjoying playing this game solo now you have screwed me royally i have put a lot of time into this game now i won't bother to play anymore because i can't earn ad anymore thank's for nothing
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
people arnt going to sell for less then they bought stuff for in a depresion unless they have a family to feed ext which dosnt exist in online games. i think the big disconnect between people on forums is some think that cause they are earning less people will fell bad for them and sell what they have for less which call me a cynic but i dont see happening its not like you have to pay mooring fees on a horn of lostmauth ect.
assuming you play one char and at a conservative estimate it costs 30mill ad to get all your gear fully built thats 1250 days of geting your 24k in 4 or 5 maps that whole time....
i think theres factory workers in china that would laugh at us
Supply and demand items have lost 50% of their value, at the very least. Zen market items are around 20-25% loss total.
The only items that retain any value, but are the hardest to sale atm is clearly cost gating items. Enchants past 8+ and weapon/armour past lesser.
Everything else has to adjust to thew new vectors. Your thinking of this wrong, AD at the moment has more value, your not loosing anything. Other then items that are cost gated.
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theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
edited September 2015
Yeah, the problem is that a large percentage of the items are fixed cost items.
If anything, the fall in price of dragon eggs has actually allowed me to start making gemmed exquisite elemental shirt/pants again. Granted, the margins are super thin, but since I make my own Unified Elements, I'm still getting some output from my profession slots.
I am on board with this change completely. With my limited game time, the only way I have been able to afford anything is by having a "Leadership Army" and that turned into a catch-22. All my available time each day was spent working Leadership. With these changes, I will be able to stop my "leadership army" and instead spend that 30-90 minutes actually playing the game AND earning AD.
I feel the pros definitely out-weight the cons and while yes there will be upset folks that can no longer rake in near endless AD (like me), what this does is turn the game economy back on track to what it should be. I feel too that these changes will allow far more people will be able to enjoy the game than those upset. Especially new and returning players. This sounds great to me. Looking forward to actually being able to play the game and not work it.
I would suggest 2 things restore daily and hourly quest back to way they were and these simple changes
Restore dungeon hr give 3k ad in chest and 3k ad from completion total 6 k AD PVP 1k AD per match complete 4 matches quest get bonus 4k ad total 8k ad max daily. Then get seal of triumph and 4k ad for win of PVP like before.
Restore skirmish hr give 1500 AD per skirmish for 4500ad max and 4500 AD bonus for completion
this would give over achievers a daily Ad rough AD of 27k ad 3 over max refine any way but just doing as before change still 20k AD
restore ad to leadership with changes 1st 1 leadership per class with max per account 5 classes (Each Must be a diferent Clas IE HR<CW<GF<GWF<TR)other words max 5 leadership setups per account this way all players can play the character class they want and have AD to grow each.
2ndTo fix ad Bot solution and have players in game. 1 character from Account must complete any combo of the above IE 1 dungeon run and reward and 4 PVP matches and reward or 1 dungeon and reward and run 3 skirmishes and get reward this will generate reward of total of leadership for account coffer not player assigned
you must remember to do 2 of 3 dailies a day to collect 5 tunes of leadership @around 18k ad per tune generates 18k ad x4 +24k equals a total income max @ 96 k AD max but you will see far less going out in AD due to not all have that many classes any way. LAST also would have the ability to do leadership on Gateway for us who work
No one legit should have a problem with this it solves issue of grinding complaining. Issue of I can play just one toon a day and support all my others.
I am sorry for those who played by the rules of PW and lost the leadership but we needed something to fix the leadership Issue. This will help the economy and give solo players a hand also I play solo and might level a 2nd toon if thes changes were in place and I would defiantly spend money to give it a good kick start in game to keep from grinding 70 levels
jhp
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
I am on board with this change completely. With my limited game time, the only way I have been able to afford anything is by having a "Leadership Army" and that turned into a catch-22. All my available time each day was spent working Leadership. With these changes, I will be able to stop my "leadership army" and instead spend that 30-90 minutes actually playing the game AND earning AD.
I feel the pros definitely out-weight the cons and while yes there will be upset folks that can no longer rake in near endless AD (like me), what this does is turn the game economy back on track to what it should be. I feel too that these changes will allow far more people will be able to enjoy the game than those upset. Especially new and returning players. This sounds great to me. Looking forward to actually being able to play the game and not work it.
+1 agreed!
Wait a second here.. Zeb was wrong and here is the reason why, THEY (cryptic) removed the profession from Gateway, before that, we could do our leadership during lunch-breaks or ten mins while waiting on a conference call to log in. I loved it, when I was on the road, it worked wonders for me back then! I loved the feature.
It took VERY little in game time until recently .
Im sorry but that statement from him is just plain wrong and he will admit to using a army as well.
Again, I go back to costing.. costing , costing. Not AD.. fix the costing please.
I won't pretend to have read through all 60+ pages of this thread, but it kinda sucks doing HEs in the stronghold since you can't earn AD there and for people that have limited play time adding AD to stronghold events should be a priority. Have it somewhat mirror the influence rewards in that 150 influence = 1500 AD, 120 influence = 1200 AD, etc down to 20 influence = 200 AD. So 4000 AD for a round of stronghold HEs wouldn't be game breaking IMO.
Dual spec is off topic, but I basically agree. You should be able to easily customize your character to different scenarios. At absolute bare minimum, you should be able to keep "slot arrays" for powers, even if nothing else changes.
You should be able to easily customize your characters - period. 40k AD to transmute a lv66 item is stupid. It has no impact on the larger game economy; it has no impact on real gameplay. It's just vanity. I know vanity pays, but it's not that valuable to the players, and thus just smacks of baldfaced greed.
If you want robofarming, go play farmville or something.
1. What do you get right now for 30-90 minutes gameplay in AD? 2. What did you get with 10 characters on Leadership rank 20 (not even going to rank 25 for all characters...) and 7 (not even going to a full 9 set for all characters...) profession tasks slots for 30-90 minutes gameplay in AD?
Where do we get the difference between 1. and 2. now from? Is the Lead Designer coming into the game and helping us out with earning more rAD? Where are we now more "rewarded" for "playing the game"? Where are any compensations for this change at all?
How about giving some straight answers, that are followed by some reasonable patches, that improve the situation for the players affected by this whole mess, within the same time they took for removing rAD from LS?
I mean, they had no problem with cutting out the rAD from LS within a week, so there should be some major improvements within a week too, right?!
So...4:52pm EDT. Any chance that we can get a pulse from an official source? I appreciate that at least one of our mods responded to all the angst, but as we all know, the mods don't have any control over what is going on at Cryptic.
C'mon, guys.
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I won't pretend to have read through all 60+ pages of this thread, but it kinda sucks doing HEs in the stronghold since you can't earn AD there and for people that have limited play time adding AD to stronghold events should be a priority. Have it somewhat mirror the influence rewards in that 150 influence = 1500 AD, 120 influence = 1200 AD, etc down to 20 influence = 200 AD. So 4000 AD for a round of stronghold HEs wouldn't be game breaking IMO.
Worst part is, HEs in Strongholds were a reliable source of Resonance stones. A green for big encounters, maybe sometimes a blue or purple, which helped level artifacts and make some diamonds on the side.
What did they do at once? Sink the drop rate to hell and back, so that there is basically no reason to bother your guild and get together to do the big encounters anymore. All of that because some were "exploiting" it to...*gasp* make some diamonds and achieve progression while doing something FUN with the guild Stronghold is supposed to bring new content to get together for? They didn't even make the stones bound or put something like stronghold coupons to replace them...they just take, take, take. Either they're so scared of "exploiters" breaking an economy which doesn't even work to begin with, or they hate players and punish them for playing with all the subtlety of a steamroller.
I am on board with this change completely. With my limited game time, the only way I have been able to afford anything is by having a "Leadership Army" and that turned into a catch-22. All my available time each day was spent working Leadership. With these changes, I will be able to stop my "leadership army" and instead spend that 30-90 minutes actually playing the game AND earning AD.
I feel the pros definitely out-weight the cons and while yes there will be upset folks that can no longer rake in near endless AD (like me), what this does is turn the game economy back on track to what it should be. I feel too that these changes will allow far more people will be able to enjoy the game than those upset. Especially new and returning players. This sounds great to me. Looking forward to actually being able to play the game and not work it.
+1 agreed!
Wait a second here.. Zeb was wrong and here is the reason why, THEY (cryptic) removed the profession from Gateway, before that, we could do our leadership during lunch-breaks or ten mins while waiting on a conference call to log in. I loved it, when I was on the road, it worked wonders for me back then! I loved the feature.
It took VERY little in game time until recently .
Im sorry but that statement from him is just plain wrong and he will admit to using a army as well.
Again, I go back to costing.. costing , costing. Not AD.. fix the costing please.
I had 9 characters at 20+ leadership that I got AD from, and after the 15 or so minutes it took for me to do my leadership it left me free to do just about anything in the game that I wanted. Doing dungeons on my alts for gear, PvP with friends/guild mates, dailies and campaign stuff to help with the Stronghold, and other stuff I actually enjoyed because I knew I had a stable AD income.
Now I've got to think of ways to scrounge up AD that'll take time away from things I actually WANT to do. Back to farming WoD dragons and Tiamat, or having to excessively farm dungeons, skirmishes and pvp past what I'd WANT to do just to keep up.
Looking forward to actually being able to play the game and not work it.
Not for me, the game itself has become work in order to keep up and it's not nearly enough to be able to do it. "earning AD" that way is an absolute joke and I don't know how anyone can be happy with that.
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theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
It was both intended to be funny and not. It's definitely a matter of fact way of putting it, but it's also the precise definition.
A perverse incentive is when the way something is built, encourages behavior that is generally considered something that should be discouraged. An exploit, in the gaming context, is when some aspect of how the game was designed leads to an unintentional glitch. You can't really compare the gateway AH AD glitch to leadership armies. The former was people blatantly violating the game rules, whereas the latter was just what the game encouraged them to do because of how the markets worked.
Of course, you do have the in-between scenarios, where someone has 50 characters over 25 accounts, and manages AD across them. That's a combination of perverse incentives along with a violation of the TOS. It's not really an "exploit" because there's no taking advantage of a glitch, but it's both a perverse incentive and a violation of allowed play.
I had posted this in another thread, but will repost it here to add my comments to the AD discussion:
I recently found more time to play NW and was busy upgrading my 5 toon account to get them to level 70. Now I ask myself, why ? Previously I had very little time to play and after a long time upgrading my Leadership on my 5 toons I was able to at least earn some AD over a long period of time to make some character upgrades. Now I see basically no way to earn AD with my limited time to play, around an hour or so each day, and yet I see no decrease in the AD cost for items in the bazaar or AH. I am a solo player, don't do PVP, I have no time for dungeons or finding PUGs to do them with. Now with no reasonable timely way to earn AD I see no point in playing this game anymore. Obviously as a Hero of the North player, I have in the past invested considerable RL money in this game, but no longer.
So goodbye NW, it was fun while it lasted, but just like other PWI games I have played in the past, PW, Jade Dynasty, and now NW, the grind is no longer worth it. I may return occasionally to see if the game devs have smartened up and along with the huge reduction in earning AD, have they reduced drastically the cost of items and put them in balance. When I see new balance to the economy, I may return.
People have put hundrets of dollar and hundrets of hours into this profession.
It takes at least 3 MONTHs without bots to level it to a profitable level.
Its not about changing the mechanics or tweaking the game here and there.
People are getting ripped of their money and time. And we speak about A LOT of people. And 99% are not botters.
Granted. However it destroyed the economy. What is your solution? Turn a blind eye to the specific thing that is killing the game?
PS I would like to see your spreadsheet that led you to claim that 99% are not botters.
Destroyed the economy. Interesting theory, and in line w/ all the leadership deniers. Just checked AD to Zen in game. As of a couple of mins ago, One Zen was 438 AD. SO, by Destroying MY (and many others peoples!) ability to make AD strategically over time the devs have TEMPORARILY dropped AD to Zen by 62 points.
Put another way... literally millions of AD's have been pulled out of the economy by the AD change. That is, If you posit say 100000 players using leadership AS INTENDED before the change, each one making say 10000 AD per toon, say it averages to eight toons per player, so that's 80000 per player... WAIT. My mistake.
That's EIGHT BILLION AD'S REMOVED from the economy. Daily. And that's a CONSERVATIVE estimate. And hmmm...... we've lost ONLY SIXTY-TWO POINTS in two days and the exchange rate seems to have stabilized there.
BTW, I'm tracking it on every log in. We had a LOW of 412 AD's to one Zen at 0100 hours PST Monday night. Yesterday at around 1700 PST One Zen was running 454 AD's. Yep. All those leadership "armies"... yep, they were out of control, you betcha.
The worst part of the leadership "nerf" is that these people that spent lots of time to get their leadership to the point that it makes these sort of returns. It takes a minimum of 3 months to get leadership to 20 with at least NINE man-at-arms working. I know, I kept track on my most recent toon.
And that ignores the COST of man-at-arms or adventurers, the guys that make leadership task times reasonable. BEFORE Monday, a man-at-arms was running about 70k AD's and an adventurers was running about 170k on the AH. And those prices have been stable for at least six months, or whenever Mod Six came out, whichever is longer. I know, I've been BUYING a few of them here and there to help improve my own leadership.
SO. Hmmm. Like I said. Interesting theory. Currently the FACTS say otherwise.
They should just wipe the player base, have everyone start over. People that enjoy the game will play and new players will join and no one will whine about how it was broken or use to be since everyone would be on square 1. Its the only fair thing to do since all these changes over the years.
I'd hate to lose my 100% complete HR with every boon/skill at max, but so we are all on the same playing field id take that sacrifice to get the game back to how it was when I first joined. "Fun, inventive and exciting to play".
As long as they reimburse me for even dime i spent buying zen.
+1 Yeah, NUKE the whole thing it and credit accounts with anything transferred in / purchased from PWE. THAT would hurt the bots for sure!
Comments
Observations:
- Bots, RP farmers, and their ilk, exist because they fill a need and it is profitable, else they would not be doing it.
- People buy from said Bots and their ilk because it fills a need. There are numerous reasons for this, among them: laziness, greed, impatience, a need for instant gratification and advancement, not enough time or money in real life to achieve desired goals within the “official” structure, prices are perceived to be too high or are artificially set (price controls) thereby causing distortions and triggering end run behavior, and the list goes on…
- Any game “income” earning system that does not require effort (save pressing a few buttons), impose character-centric limitations, is largely passive, and is accepted if not outright encouraged by the supplier of that income, can be coopted and done far more efficiently by bots and macros than by real people. Whether this system is good, bad, or indifferent on a virtual economy is a topic for a different discussion. To reference a song first sung by Ethel Merman (showing my age here), “Anything You Can Do (I can bot better).” Botters and RP farmers within the existing system could generate/aggregate AD and RP in a way no human could. To use a more modern reference from the first Terminator movie: “Listen, and understand! That Bot/Farmer is out there! It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead.” Actually, it will keep doing it even after you are dead…
- One thing I’ve learned about MMOs is they generally share at least one goal: to separate your money from you in some way. I fully support this because absent the independently wealthy individual with money to burn and no need for profitability: if there is no profit, there is no game.
- The F2P model shares some traits with drug dealers, give you free samples to establish a baseline rush (addiction), and then make you want more, and more powerful effects. Again, I accept this. Nobody is holding a gun to anyone’s head forcing them to consume these products. I can’t speak for any human AD/RP farmers since I’ve heard unverified rumors that somebody might actually be holding a gun to their heads forcing them to game. And we complain about the grind…
- I’ve seen many comments about content. I suspect that developing said content is far more difficult than many people appreciate. When it comes out, the flaming starts about how crappy it is. When it doesn’t come out, the flaming starts about the lack of content or the crappy state of existing content. I suppose there is a balance in there somewhere, but for some maxed players, it will never, ever be enough. They want to be first, they want to be best, and they are kind of like the bots. They will likely never be satiated. Kudos to them for their dedication though. Capping out toons with no new content, can lead to apathy, whining, dissatisfaction, boredom, and withdrawal. Sounds too much like real life…
- End game. I hear this term bandied about, sometimes with the context that there is actually an end game. I fail to see or understand that context in an MMOG. A boxed game with a start and a finish has an end game in that you play it, and assuming you get to the end and kill Lord God King Bufu, you are done and get to watch the screen credits and bask in the glory. No endless grinding with no end in sight. There might be sequels/prequels, but they are issued as complete packages (and maybe some DLCs as well). MMOs are expected to keep things going ad infinitum and to keep things cool, and awesome, and smexy. A tall order I say, perhaps even impossible. All great empires have been trampled into dust so far as I know. If you want to be Ethel Merman, and think, or know, that you can do MMORPGs better than the rest… well, what are you waiting for? The gaming world may very well be ready for the next WoW, or Dota 2 or Counter-Strike and you can be LGKB and prove to all the clueless gaming execs of the world that you did in fact do it better.
- Leveling… probably as many opinions on this as there are people playing. Point being, nobody has the absolute truth they can impose on anyone else about what is the “right” pace of leveling. For some, being max level with max gear within a week of playing, is 6.5 days too long. For others getting there when they get there is ok. Most people are likely in between. I certainly do not presume to know exactly how quickly I should be leveling, let alone dictate to anyone else (or the devs) what that rate should be. But there is one salient factor that could be considered. If you level faster than content is delivered, undesirable things can happen. Same goes if it takes many months or years to get to a point where you can do higher level content. It is not lost on me that when I started playing nearly 2 years ago, starting from scratch took considerably longer to progress than if I start a toon now with all the benefits my account confers. While I think would like to progress faster than I am now, I am not dissatisfied with where my toons are now. It gives me something to work towards.
- I have "invested" what I consider to be a fair amount on the game, and if I was more sensible with my disposable income I'd probably be doing better things with it. But then, maybe the marginal utility of burning my dollars elsewhere is not as high. Does that make me a wallet warrior? Dunno, but if it helps keep the lights on and the electrons flowing, that's my choice. I am far from an elite player. I am probably a mid-tier to upper mid-tier player (3.1k IL on my main) just chugging along, making bad jokes and puns, and doing the grind, which as has been stated, is not the most pleasant thing to do. And yet, we who are in game, do it.
That’s it for now. Take care, be well, game on.
-Sarge
assuming you play one char and at a conservative estimate it costs 30mill ad to get all your gear fully built thats 1250 days of geting your 24k in 4 or 5 maps that whole time....
i think theres factory workers in china that would laugh at us
The only items that retain any value, but are the hardest to sale atm is clearly cost gating items. Enchants past 8+ and weapon/armour past lesser.
Everything else has to adjust to thew new vectors. Your thinking of this wrong, AD at the moment has more value, your not loosing anything. Other then items that are cost gated.
If anything, the fall in price of dragon eggs has actually allowed me to start making gemmed exquisite elemental shirt/pants again. Granted, the margins are super thin, but since I make my own Unified Elements, I'm still getting some output from my profession slots.
- stop putting your money in NW
- quit the game which is an extension of the previous point.
Wait for the next pwe financial report and let's see what happen
Oltreverso guild leader
Maga Othelma - DC | Svalvolo - SW | Dente Avvelenato- GWF
Rage against the zeitgeist.
Restore dungeon hr give 3k ad in chest and 3k ad from completion total 6 k AD
PVP 1k AD per match complete 4 matches quest get bonus 4k ad total 8k ad max daily. Then get seal of triumph and 4k ad for win of PVP like before.
Restore skirmish hr give 1500 AD per skirmish for 4500ad max and 4500 AD bonus for completion
this would give over achievers a daily Ad rough AD of 27k ad 3 over max refine any way
but just doing as before change still 20k AD
restore ad to leadership with changes
1st 1 leadership per class with max per account 5 classes (Each Must be a diferent Clas IE HR<CW<GF<GWF<TR)other words max 5 leadership setups per account this way all players can play the character class they want and have AD to grow each.
2ndTo fix ad Bot solution and have players in game. 1 character from Account must complete any combo of the above IE 1 dungeon run and reward and 4 PVP matches and reward or 1 dungeon and reward and run 3 skirmishes and get reward this will generate reward of total of leadership for account coffer not player assigned
you must remember to do 2 of 3 dailies a day to collect 5 tunes of leadership @around 18k ad per tune generates 18k ad x4 +24k equals a total income max @ 96 k AD max but you will see far less going out in AD due to not all have that many classes any way. LAST also would have the ability to do leadership on Gateway for us who work
No one legit should have a problem with this it solves issue of grinding complaining. Issue of I can play just one toon a day and support all my others.
I am sorry for those who played by the rules of PW and lost the leadership but we needed something to fix the leadership Issue. This will help the economy and give solo players a hand also I play solo and might level a 2nd toon if thes changes were in place and I would defiantly spend money to give it a good kick start in game to keep from grinding 70 levels
jhp
It took VERY little in game time until recently .
Im sorry but that statement from him is just plain wrong and he will admit to using a army as well.
Again, I go back to costing.. costing , costing. Not AD.. fix the costing please.
All the AD sinks need to be reduced big time. Especially 50K Appearance changes... 50K? That should be gold just like removing enchantments.
And dont get me started about how this game doesn't let you dual spec your character (especially playing a Tank as my main.)
Vell Crowe
Vell Crowe's Soulbinder Damnation SW build
Rage against the zeitgeist.
2. What did you get with 10 characters on Leadership rank 20 (not even going to rank 25 for all characters...) and 7 (not even going to a full 9 set for all characters...) profession tasks slots for 30-90 minutes gameplay in AD?
Where do we get the difference between 1. and 2. now from?
Is the Lead Designer coming into the game and helping us out with earning more rAD?
Where are we now more "rewarded" for "playing the game"?
Where are any compensations for this change at all?
How about giving some straight answers, that are followed by some reasonable patches, that improve the situation for the players affected by this whole mess, within the same time they took for removing rAD from LS?
I mean, they had no problem with cutting out the rAD from LS within a week, so there should be some major improvements within a week too, right?!
C'mon, guys.
Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
What did they do at once? Sink the drop rate to hell and back, so that there is basically no reason to bother your guild and get together to do the big encounters anymore. All of that because some were "exploiting" it to...*gasp* make some diamonds and achieve progression while doing something FUN with the guild Stronghold is supposed to bring new content to get together for? They didn't even make the stones bound or put something like stronghold coupons to replace them...they just take, take, take. Either they're so scared of "exploiters" breaking an economy which doesn't even work to begin with, or they hate players and punish them for playing with all the subtlety of a steamroller.
Rage against the zeitgeist.
Now I've got to think of ways to scrounge up AD that'll take time away from things I actually WANT to do. Back to farming WoD dragons and Tiamat, or having to excessively farm dungeons, skirmishes and pvp past what I'd WANT to do just to keep up. Not for me, the game itself has become work in order to keep up and it's not nearly enough to be able to do it. "earning AD" that way is an absolute joke and I don't know how anyone can be happy with that.
CW: Rodrant Turnbul
TR: Rodran
DC: Rodrat
GWF: ROARdrant TurnBRAWL
Other GWF: Shieldrant
HR: Bowdrant
SW: Wardrant Turnlock (my main!)
OP: Paladrant (on Preview!)
I will say I'm rather astounded that the price of zen hasn't tanked more than it has, however.
A perverse incentive is when the way something is built, encourages behavior that is generally considered something that should be discouraged. An exploit, in the gaming context, is when some aspect of how the game was designed leads to an unintentional glitch. You can't really compare the gateway AH AD glitch to leadership armies. The former was people blatantly violating the game rules, whereas the latter was just what the game encouraged them to do because of how the markets worked.
Of course, you do have the in-between scenarios, where someone has 50 characters over 25 accounts, and manages AD across them. That's a combination of perverse incentives along with a violation of the TOS. It's not really an "exploit" because there's no taking advantage of a glitch, but it's both a perverse incentive and a violation of allowed play.
Maybe just give 'em the finger!
..|..
I recently found more time to play NW and was busy upgrading my 5 toon account to get them to level 70. Now I ask myself, why ? Previously I had very little time to play and after a long time upgrading my Leadership on my 5 toons I was able to at least earn some AD over a long period of time to make some character upgrades. Now I see basically no way to earn AD with my limited time to play, around an hour or so each day, and yet I see no decrease in the AD cost for items in the bazaar or AH. I am a solo player, don't do PVP, I have no time for dungeons or finding PUGs to do them with. Now with no reasonable timely way to earn AD I see no point in playing this game anymore. Obviously as a Hero of the North player, I have in the past invested considerable RL money in this game, but no longer.
So goodbye NW, it was fun while it lasted, but just like other PWI games I have played in the past, PW, Jade Dynasty, and now NW, the grind is no longer worth it. I may return occasionally to see if the game devs have smartened up and along with the huge reduction in earning AD, have they reduced drastically the cost of items and put them in balance. When I see new balance to the economy, I may return.
Member Since:
05/19/2009
Put another way... literally millions of AD's have been pulled out of the economy by the AD change. That is, If you posit say 100000 players using leadership AS INTENDED before the change, each one making say 10000 AD per toon, say it averages to eight toons per player, so that's 80000 per player... WAIT. My mistake.
That's EIGHT BILLION AD'S REMOVED from the economy. Daily. And that's a CONSERVATIVE estimate. And hmmm...... we've lost ONLY SIXTY-TWO POINTS in two days and the exchange rate seems to have stabilized there.
BTW, I'm tracking it on every log in. We had a LOW of 412 AD's to one Zen at 0100 hours PST Monday night. Yesterday at around 1700 PST One Zen was running 454 AD's. Yep. All those leadership "armies"... yep, they were out of control, you betcha.
The worst part of the leadership "nerf" is that these people that spent lots of time to get their leadership to the point that it makes these sort of returns. It takes a minimum of 3 months to get leadership to 20 with at least NINE man-at-arms working. I know, I kept track on my most recent toon.
And that ignores the COST of man-at-arms or adventurers, the guys that make leadership task times reasonable. BEFORE Monday, a man-at-arms was running about 70k AD's and an adventurers was running about 170k on the AH. And those prices have been stable for at least six months, or whenever Mod Six came out, whichever is longer. I know, I've been BUYING a few of them here and there to help improve my own leadership.
SO. Hmmm. Like I said. Interesting theory. Currently the FACTS say otherwise.
Yeah, NUKE the whole thing it and credit accounts with anything transferred in / purchased from PWE.
THAT would hurt the bots for sure!