Leadership, leadership, leadership … God, people - it's clear the AD nerf on Leadership was needed - at the very least, they aren't coming back. All of this undue focus on a honeypot system is taking attention away from the other, very real problems. The more you go on about Leadership and nothing else, the less and less likely they are to fix ANYTHING.
Ok Mr. Know it all... then explain to me how people are supposed to afford dozens of GMoP, companion upgrades, and several other AD sinks now then?
Yea the attention should be focused on everything they done in recent times and leadership is just the nail in the coffin that is going to finish this pos off.
Even though I had 9 toons working on leadership the removal of AD from that is not what killed me.
Changing the hourly events and the daily quests did me in. I had 6 toons that could do dungeons for the daily, and I have bought VIP status. I could spend an hour running most of my playable toons through the dungeons for a quick 40k AD per day. Because none of my toons had gotten close to capping Leadership between them all and all invokes I was good for about 100k more AD per day.
My main was a TR that had just broke through the 2.8k GS barrier and that was only because I got lucky on a couple of boxes and got an Armored Giant Strider and a Giant Strider to sell on the AH at the high point of their value. My CW was at 2.2k GS and my GWF was at 2.3k GS. Not very intimidating after netting over 15 million AD in one day on the AH.
With the system they have in place now I cannot possibly make that 40k AD in an hour. I cannot see a way to actually continue to build my playable toons and contribute to my guild so I am out until they find a new direction on AD.
I was one that spent a considerable amount of money on opening boxes and also on VIP. Because of VIP status only I log into the game daily on my main to open a box until my VIP status ends.
Destroyed the economy. Interesting theory, and in line w/ all the leadership deniers. Just checked AD to Zen in game. As of a couple of mins ago, One Zen was 438 AD. SO, by Destroying MY (and many others peoples!) ability to make AD strategically over time the devs have TEMPORARILY dropped AD to Zen by 62 points.
I say, that the AD:Zen rate is set on buyers and sellers. If nobody is transferring Zens into the game, and anybody with any foresight already sold theirs at 500AD:Zen ... then the seemingly high rate can be explained by nobody willing to transfer zens into the game.
Sure, some are late to the party so there are still enough sellers to keep up with folks who need to buy something today, but I still feel there is lot of uncertainty with the ZAX so maybe not so many "traders" ... it *could* even peg back to 500 ... if it comes to nobody willing to transfer Zens into the game, there would be no functioning exchange at all (was 4 days really too long to wait on ZAX?).
Even though I had 9 toons working on leadership the removal of AD from that is not what killed me...
I was one that spent a considerable amount of money on opening boxes and also on VIP. Because of VIP status only I log into the game daily on my main to open a box until my VIP status ends.
I too admit I spent real $$$ in this game - my VIP has about a month to go. However, happily (as it were) thanks to the AD nerf, I find most of what drove the desire to spend $$ is gone.
So thank you, PW, you have cured me of the itch to spend real $$.
I'll continue to play the game, as time allows and when it suits me, but will do so on a free to play basis.
Destroyed the economy. Interesting theory, and in line w/ all the leadership deniers. Just checked AD to Zen in game. As of a couple of mins ago, One Zen was 438 AD. SO, by Destroying MY (and many others peoples!) ability to make AD strategically over time the devs have TEMPORARILY dropped AD to Zen by 62 points.
I say, that the AD:Zen rate is set on buyers and sellers. If nobody is transferring Zens into the game, and anybody with any foresight already sold theirs at 500AD:Zen ... then the seemingly high rate can be explained by nobody willing to transfer zens into the game.
Sure, some are late to the party so there are still enough sellers to keep up with folks who need to buy something today, but I still feel there is lot of uncertainty with the ZAX so maybe not so many "traders" ... it *could* even peg back to 500 ... if it comes to nobody willing to transfer Zens into the game, there would be no functioning exchange at all (was 4 days really too long to wait on ZAX?).
Hmmm. Maybe a little right, but mostly wrong. And the exchange rate itself is the proof. It's gone DOWN because people ARE selling Zen. Selling it and getting lower AD conversion rates, but still selling. And why has the RATE gone down? Because of the temporary decrease in overall AD. People have less AD, there is less overall AD in the system, and thus AD have less value.
OR.... hmmm. Maybe because the market is FLOODED with Zen, and people are willing to take almost ANY price to turn CASH into AD's? Because they CAN NOT get AD's any other way? Nah. Wild speculation... or is it?
Likely it's actually a bit of both. But like I said previous ... facts and theory. So far we have some interesting FACTS and some WILD theories. I'll spot ya that 48 hours is a little early in the game.... a week will really show what the long term prospects are going to be.
Post edited by nightstalkor on
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theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
Well, the fact of the matter is that if people want to buy zen for AD at the moment, they can.
Oh. And an addendum to my last post... If the rate does GO back up to 500 AD to One Zen... that shows two things.
1) That the leadership nerf was totally pointless.
2) That the devs need to really sit down and thouroughly figure out how to get rid of the "botters". Because if the exchange rate goes back up, obviously these scum are still alive, well, and in business.
2) That the devs need to really sit down and thouroughly figure out how to get rid of the "botters". Because if the exchange rate goes back up, obviously these scum are still alive, well, and in business.
cheers
they are still alive and in business. but expect another knee jerk reaction and massive nerf in the future.
Changing the hourly events and the daily quests did me in. I had 6 toons that could do dungeons for the daily, and I have bought VIP status. I could spend an hour running most of my playable toons through the dungeons for a quick 40k AD per day. Because none of my toons had gotten close to capping Leadership between them all and all invokes I was good for about 100k more AD per day.
Same here, atleast I could do the 1 dungeon per character and get 70k in 2 hours. Plus additional 34k each for my 2 geared characters that can do kessels. I only did leadership tasks about 1-2 times a day anyway, that's just about 15k a day, so I don't mind not having leadership. But having to do 2 dungeons per character, and having this bug that only rewards 1k on your dungeon runs, it's just crippling.
"As the good archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself." -Danilo Thann[/quote]
You're ignoring that, in the gaming community, exploit implies the usage of taking advantage of a flaw in the code to extract something from the game that wasn't intended, eg the AD exploit in the AH on the Gateway. I certainly agree that by standard english definitions, leadership armies are an exploit, but the emotional attachment to the term carries weight, and if you use words because of their "technical" definition without considering context, you're just deliberately being bad at communication.
I am using and will continue to use the standard definition. Especially when confronted with the "well, we were not breaking rules" argument. You, others and botters were exploiting a weakness in the game. Period, full stop. The fact that the developers were too shortsighted does not excuse it.
That weakness was plugged. If people with leadership armies honestly thought since it was not against the rules that it was acceptable, they are being insultingly dishonest.
This should have never been an issue, allowing unlimited slots and then allowing those slots to produce the so called AD Leadership Army was shortsighted by Cryptic.
Again, see the bolded part. Though they were shortsighted before does not mean that present action was not needed.
They easily could have and still could make it so that only a set number of slots can access AD through leadership, by doing that they would allow the casual player to make his 12k and 24k per day on those accounts and have a little AD to buy the things they need to advance in the game.
If the game is going to be set up so that botters can so easily exploit it then yes I say it was SHORTSIGHTED by Cryptic to launch the game with this function available.
Now, again, all this does is basically take the person like me, who works a 12 hour shift and has little daily time to play, but a few minutes to set my AD army of 2 slots to work and make it where I can no longer afford Wards and GMOP's.
That just takes the incentive for me to play down to none, I won't be a large or even small loss to the game and wouldn't even consider thinking I would be, but it appears that I am not alone in my feelings.
Did something need to be done? Well you said it does, since I only play a few hours per week I can only assume you are correct, but, If Cryptic wants to have free casual players along with the paying customers then they need to come up with a solution.
the biggest impact I noticed personally is on my guild. People used to once in a while contribute purple items and alliance blue items to stronghold. ( i know i used to put TONS of alliance rings from elol/kessel etc.)
now since ad is harder to get from leadership removal and the removal of Rhix, my surplus equipment counts have BARELY moved since yesterday because its MORE important now to salvage for the AD than EVER BEFORE.
please make stronghold surplus equipments lower across the board or up green items to 20 "points" in coffer and blues to 100.
And no, you can't call it an exploit "at best" -- it wasn't against any stated or assumed rules of the game to do it.
I can call it an exploit as much as I desire. I do not make the rules. People (including botters) were exploiting leadership to amass the gigantic sums.
ex·ploit verb ikˈsploit/ 1. make full use of and derive benefit from (a resource). "500 companies sprang up to exploit this new technology" synonyms: utilize, harness, use, make use of, turn/put to good use, make the most of, capitalize on, benefit from; informalcash in on "we should exploit this new technology"
You're ignoring that, in the gaming community, exploit implies the usage of taking advantage of a flaw in the code to extract something from the game that wasn't intended, eg the AD exploit in the AH on the Gateway. I certainly agree that by standard english definitions, leadership armies are an exploit, but the emotional attachment to the term carries weight, and if you use words because of their "technical" definition without considering context, you're just deliberately being bad at communication.
Let me stop you there sir/maddam....
"A flaw in the code..."
There was no flaw in the code.
They provided the profession Leadership, character slots at $5 in USD
So you are saying we are cheaters for months on end of work and paying hundreds of USD to support and use the mechanics provided by the GAME?
LOL!!!
And let me add to this by stating once again that the economy was ruined LONG BEFORE LEADERSHIP buddy.... if you ever heard of Caturday the exploit on the gateway that allowed players to put negative values in the bid put BILLIONS of AD into the economy and I guarantee you a ton is still there from that "EXPLOIT"... THAT was an EXPLOIT... a flaw in the code.
Calling players taking the time to level a profession provided in game "Exploiters" is just wrong. You play your way more power to you.
Thank you, I do remember Caturday, and I remember the complete server reset that wiped out days of gameplay.
I have played solo for most of my time here, didn't have time to fully support a guild, I spent every AD I generated
on improving my main character and my best enhancement is still a lvl 9.
and having this bug that only rewards 1k on your dungeon runs, it's just crippling.
bug.... yeah right.
If it's not a bug, what is it? Even if everyone runs over the pile, you don't get your additional 1k. You're supposed to see three 1k pick ups right? This is really confusing because the devs have not answered any of our questions in the bug report. Everyone keeps saying it's on the ground and people need to just run over it, but in most cases it's really not there. You get the small bunch of AD's after people go over the pile, but no 1k pick ups.
"As the good archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself." -Danilo Thann[/quote]
It is very hard to post responses when it is very clear the only response many of you want to see is that the leadership changes will be reversed.
That was a sadly disappointing response. and here I will stop a moment and apologize. I hate it when moderators get flamed....I did that job myself, it is really irritating....
If you read very carefully through the posts...as painful as it may be...you will find that lots of users have posted solutions...and clues as to what they are really upset about....and in many cases, it really is not about the changes to the astral diamonds in leadership. It is the necessity of farming them. i don't really enjoy farming...it is very repetitive. BUT....since the dungeons from which you can get the high IL gear from take such a high item get get through, that you need the piece of equipment you may get there just to get through it, there seems to be little other choice. ...REALLY...I would much rather spend my time queuing for dungeons. I just cant get through any area specific or epic ones with a 2374 item level. THAT is what we are screaming to have resolved. If I have a change of getting through those....then I don't need to farm AD.
They should bring back leadership AD a lot of us worked hard to get it up to level 20 and then to level 25 and for the sole purpose of making characters stronger. Even with the AD from profession it still takes years to get your character to the point that it is even somewhat a threat in pvp. Now with out the extra astral diamonds it is going to be nearly impossible to level you character up to anything decent especially for new players. Just consider the fact to get an artifact to orange you will have to spend 500,000 astral diamonds for refinement. And that is only one artifact we now have four slots. Then getting any enchantment to level 12 forget it with the new economy unless you have thousands to spend this game is now finished. I have spent a few hundred dollars on this game and sto but at least in sto you get 500 zen a month that you can exchange for dillithium I bought the hero of the north pack and there is no such deal and a lot of people said its not the same model but it really is; there is no difference in the in game economy of Neverwinter compared to Star trek online.
I do feel that the time we need to level up the Leadership profession to the maximum level is just not worth it anymore. In fact why don't you just remove the AD from the game completly and trade in the auction with gold?
To be honest I am sick of the constant changes in this game. I am not playing everyday, but I used to make the professions through the website... and you've cut it off... Nah... screw that. This game is not even worth writing that much.
2) That the devs need to really sit down and thouroughly figure out how to get rid of the "botters". Because if the exchange rate goes back up, obviously these scum are still alive, well, and in business.
cheers
they are still alive and in business. but expect another knee jerk reaction and massive nerf in the future.
Ok. I'll bite. After taking away pretty much all of my daily AD, and right now in game AD's sources are messed up, what ELSE can they nerf? The nerf took 8 BILLION AD's a day (conservative est, see my earlier posts) out of the economy and right now Zen are going for 438 AD to one.
The cow is dried up mate... and look, it didn't hardly change a thing.
Cryptic has enabled the Patriot Act. A few people run bots so everyone has to take their shoes off.
Way to ruin a decent game. I have 6 toons(5 @60+ and 1@70) and I logged into each of them EVERY SINGLE DAY, did my devotions, professions and maybe played a little. Will probably hang on for a bit but have lost that loving feeling and will definitely not dump more cash into this game. It was fun.
I do not normally make comments, I usually just go about my business and enjoy the very limited time I have to play... However, this sort of tactic to try to control your Bots is much like a teacher telling their entire class everyone has detention because they can not find the student who put gum in Sally's hair.
Unlike the class though, your players can't sell out Sally's hair tormentor to save themselves the detention, we just have to sit there and wait for the bell to ring along with them.
Bots are there, like politicians they will always be there, they will always skirt the system, find ways to do what it is they do. Yet I am not a Bot, I spend money on the game ( I probably should not spend) I give the game time, I most certainly can use elsewhere, and instead of being thanked for my time and my money, I am punished. Punished because someone else did something I would never do.
I play once a week maybe( Maybe) for a stint of 4 hours, twice a week when the chance my schedule allows, I have time to invoke once a morning on maybe my 8 characters, maybe. With the removal of Leadership AD I have gone from having the chance to make 4 to 6 K a day, to if I am lucky 193.. not K... One Hundred and ninety three.. that is it.
So I am pretty sure my comment will go unread by the game's developers, Managers, etc. Only other players will actually read this and well I thank you all for doing that. I just felt the need that this time, I had to make a comment.
Nobody here from the company will comment on this. You're just raging as this is unrelated feedback to the topic - just one more reason to complain more. On glassdoor they have average score as a company, with good and bad reviews - pity you didn't mention both as it would make your post more credible. Notice also that people who complain or are offended are more likely to post commnets. People who are content rarely have a reason to.
Maybe you are right... OR... these comments represent the reality about the company. Because the indications ingame reflect pretty much what the former AND CURRENT employees have to say.
Oh and btw I know stuff about Cryptic that explains WAY MORE, but because of anonymity I will not post it. Just ask a dev about the original source code *hint hint*
Players of every game say this. Complain about certain things - especially in free to play. The game is pretty good, overall. I don't understand that much all this hate for removing AD from Leadership. If it wasn't there in the first place, nobody would mind. Prices in Auction House will change in time, it's purely player based.
Nobody here from the company will comment on this. You're just raging as this is unrelated feedback to the topic - just one more reason to complain more. On glassdoor they have average score as a company, with good and bad reviews - pity you didn't mention both as it would make your post more credible. Notice also that people who complain or are offended are more likely to post commnets. People who are content rarely have a reason to.
Maybe you are right... OR... these comments represent the reality about the company. Because the indications ingame reflect pretty much what the former AND CURRENT employees have to say.
Oh and btw I know stuff about Cryptic that explains WAY MORE, but because of anonymity I will not post it. Just ask a dev about the original source code *hint hint*
Players of every game say this. Complain about certain things - especially in free to play. The game is pretty good, overall. I don't understand that much all this hate for removing AD from Leadership. If it wasn't there in the first place, nobody would mind. Prices in Auction House will change in time, it's purely player based.
Then how about removing AD from Leadership on Xbox too, since it's not so important, why wait? Let the Xbox players have some fun too.
Comments
Please, note the following: Nah, they're not fixing things, 'cause bots
Changing the hourly events and the daily quests did me in. I had 6 toons that could do dungeons for the daily, and I have bought VIP status. I could spend an hour running most of my playable toons through the dungeons for a quick 40k AD per day. Because none of my toons had gotten close to capping Leadership between them all and all invokes I was good for about 100k more AD per day.
My main was a TR that had just broke through the 2.8k GS barrier and that was only because I got lucky on a couple of boxes and got an Armored Giant Strider and a Giant Strider to sell on the AH at the high point of their value. My CW was at 2.2k GS and my GWF was at 2.3k GS. Not very intimidating after netting over 15 million AD in one day on the AH.
With the system they have in place now I cannot possibly make that 40k AD in an hour. I cannot see a way to actually continue to build my playable toons and contribute to my guild so I am out until they find a new direction on AD.
I was one that spent a considerable amount of money on opening boxes and also on VIP. Because of VIP status only I log into the game daily on my main to open a box until my VIP status ends.
If nobody is transferring Zens into the game, and anybody with any foresight already sold theirs at 500AD:Zen ... then the seemingly high rate can be explained by nobody willing to transfer zens into the game.
Sure, some are late to the party so there are still enough sellers to keep up with folks who need to buy something today, but I still feel there is lot of uncertainty with the ZAX so maybe not so many "traders" ... it *could* even peg back to 500 ... if it comes to nobody willing to transfer Zens into the game, there would be no functioning exchange at all (was 4 days really too long to wait on ZAX?).
So thank you, PW, you have cured me of the itch to spend real $$.
I'll continue to play the game, as time allows and when it suits me, but will do so on a free to play basis.
If nobody is transferring Zens into the game, and anybody with any foresight already sold theirs at 500AD:Zen ... then the seemingly high rate can be explained by nobody willing to transfer zens into the game.
Sure, some are late to the party so there are still enough sellers to keep up with folks who need to buy something today, but I still feel there is lot of uncertainty with the ZAX so maybe not so many "traders" ... it *could* even peg back to 500 ... if it comes to nobody willing to transfer Zens into the game, there would be no functioning exchange at all (was 4 days really too long to wait on ZAX?).
Hmmm. Maybe a little right, but mostly wrong. And the exchange rate itself is the proof. It's gone DOWN because people ARE selling Zen. Selling it and getting lower AD conversion rates, but still selling. And why has the RATE gone down? Because of the temporary decrease in overall AD. People have less AD, there is less overall AD in the system, and thus AD have less value.
OR.... hmmm. Maybe because the market is FLOODED with Zen, and people are willing to take almost ANY price to turn CASH into AD's? Because they CAN NOT get AD's any other way? Nah. Wild speculation... or is it?
Likely it's actually a bit of both. But like I said previous ... facts and theory. So far we have some interesting FACTS and some WILD theories. I'll spot ya that 48 hours is a little early in the game.... a week will really show what the long term prospects are going to be.
1) That the leadership nerf was totally pointless.
2) That the devs need to really sit down and thouroughly figure out how to get rid of the "botters". Because if the exchange rate goes back up, obviously these scum are still alive, well, and in business.
cheers
leadership, by doing that they would allow the casual player to make his 12k and 24k per day on those accounts
and have a little AD to buy the things they need to advance in the game.
If the game is going to be set up so that botters can so easily exploit it then yes I say it was SHORTSIGHTED
by Cryptic to launch the game with this function available.
Now, again, all this does is basically take the person like me, who works a 12 hour shift and has
little daily time to play, but a few minutes to set my AD army of 2 slots to work and make it where I
can no longer afford Wards and GMOP's.
That just takes the incentive for me to play down to none, I won't be a large or even small loss to the
game and wouldn't even consider thinking I would be, but it appears that I am not alone in my feelings.
Did something need to be done? Well you said it does, since I only play a few hours per week I can only
assume you are correct, but, If Cryptic wants to have free casual players along with the paying customers
then they need to come up with a solution.
now since ad is harder to get from leadership removal and the removal of Rhix, my surplus equipment counts have BARELY moved since yesterday because its MORE important now to salvage for the AD than EVER BEFORE.
please make stronghold surplus equipments lower across the board or up green items to 20 "points" in coffer and blues to 100.
I have played solo for most of my time here, didn't have time to fully support a guild, I spent every AD I generated
on improving my main character and my best enhancement is still a lvl 9.
If you read very carefully through the posts...as painful as it may be...you will find that lots of users have posted solutions...and clues as to what they are really upset about....and in many cases, it really is not about the changes to the astral diamonds in leadership. It is the necessity of farming them. i don't really enjoy farming...it is very repetitive. BUT....since the dungeons from which you can get the high IL gear from take such a high item get get through, that you need the piece of equipment you may get there just to get through it, there seems to be little other choice. ...REALLY...I would much rather spend my time queuing for dungeons. I just cant get through any area specific or epic ones with a 2374 item level. THAT is what we are screaming to have resolved. If I have a change of getting through those....then I don't need to farm AD.
In fact why don't you just remove the AD from the game completly and trade in the auction with gold?
To be honest I am sick of the constant changes in this game.
I am not playing everyday, but I used to make the professions through the website... and you've cut it off...
Nah... screw that. This game is not even worth writing that much.
The cow is dried up mate... and look, it didn't hardly change a thing.
Way to ruin a decent game. I have 6 toons(5 @60+ and 1@70) and I logged into each of them EVERY SINGLE DAY, did my devotions, professions and maybe played a little. Will probably hang on for a bit but have lost that loving feeling and will definitely not dump more cash into this game. It was fun.
Unlike the class though, your players can't sell out Sally's hair tormentor to save themselves the detention, we just have to sit there and wait for the bell to ring along with them.
Bots are there, like politicians they will always be there, they will always skirt the system, find ways to do what it is they do. Yet I am not a Bot, I spend money on the game ( I probably should not spend) I give the game time, I most certainly can use elsewhere, and instead of being thanked for my time and my money, I am punished. Punished because someone else did something I would never do.
I play once a week maybe( Maybe) for a stint of 4 hours, twice a week when the chance my schedule allows, I have time to invoke once a morning on maybe my 8 characters, maybe. With the removal of Leadership AD I have gone from having the chance to make 4 to 6 K a day, to if I am lucky 193.. not K... One Hundred and ninety three.. that is it.
So I am pretty sure my comment will go unread by the game's developers, Managers, etc. Only other players will actually read this and well I thank you all for doing that. I just felt the need that this time, I had to make a comment.
Let the Xbox players have some fun too.