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Astral Diamond Changes

goatsharkgoatshark Lead DesignerMember Posts: 23 Arc User
Hey folks, Scott here again to give you an update on the state of the Neverwinter and the Astral Diamond economy. We’re going to be making a number of changes, all of which should increase the amount of AD most players earn in a given day. There's a lot here, so without further ado...

First and foremost, I want to make sure everyone knows the intent with Astral Diamonds, and why we’re making changes. AD is meant to be a currency rewarded by playing the game; Astral Diamonds are a representation of time. Zen is, well, money. At Cryptic, we feel it’s very important that players with time (but not money) can ultimately experience our games the same way as someone with money (but not time). This is why the Zen/AD Exchange exists: trade your time for money and vice versa. In order for us to maintain balance in this exchange, we need to make sure the general population can earn time currency (AD) in a predictable manner. Our goal: if you play Neverwinter, you earn AD. Before the upcoming changes, this wasn’t reliably the case, sometimes brokenly so. In order to correct this, we’re implementing the following adjustments.

Daily Quests & Hourly Events
Previously, there were separate daily quests that, if you remembered to take them, would reward bonus AD for completing Dungeons, Skirmishes, PvP, and Foundry. Unfortunately, based on our data, far too many people either didn’t know they needed to take these quests, didn't want to go through the effort, or they simply forgot. This lead to Dungeons, Skirmishes, and PvP not rewarding as much AD as was expected in our model. On top of that, though we were expecting players to use the Foundry daily to get AD, we found the vast majority weren't doing so at all.

We believe that simply playing content should get you your time currency, so we removed the daily quests and made things automatic. Now, simply play Dungeons, Skirmishes, and PvP, and you’ll receive significant bonus AD for completing the first 2 runs of each.

Along with the inconvenience of daily quests, we also previously scheduled events to run during fixed periods each day. So if you happened to be able to log in during very specific times, you would get bonus AD from the same sources as listed above. Only able to log in at hour X? Well, hope you wanted to play dungeons for your bonus AD. This meant only a few lucky people were able to bring in the quantity we want everyone to have from the content they wanted to play. To correct this, we are removing the hourly bonus AD events. And, like the adjustment to daily quests, we've put in tech that will automatically reward bonus AD for Dungeons, Skirmishes, and PvP at any time of the day. There are earn rate maximums per day (to make sure things stay balanced), but because you can now get bonus AD regardless of what time of day you're able to log in, we expect most players will significantly increase their earn rate.

Let’s look at some actual numbers:

Playing Dungeons
Old: If you picked up the daily quest, you got 3,000 AD for one dungeon. If you had your chest key, you got an additional 3,000 AD.
New: 1. Automatically get 3,000 AD for each of the first two dungeons. 2. In addition, get 150 to 750 AD for each dungeon played (up to a maximum 7,200 AD per day from dungeons). Amount varies by time.

Playing Skirmishes
Old: If you picked up the daily quest, you got 3,000 AD for three skirmishes.
New: 1. Automatically get 1,500 AD for each of the first two skirmishes. 2. In addition, get 50 to 500 AD for each skirmish played (up to a maximum 7,200 AD per day from skirmishes). Amount varies by time.

Playing PvP
Old: If you picked up the daily quest, you got 4,000 AD for two matches.
New: 1. Automatically get 2,000 AD for each of the first two matches. 2. In addition, get 200 to 300 AD per match played (up to a maximum 4,800 AD per day from PvP). Amount varies by time.

Across the board, these two changes are expected to put significantly more AD into the hands of anyone playing this queued content.

As you may remember, we recently disabled the ability to use the Leadership profession on Gateway. This was due to an extreme number of bots generating far too much AD, and creating havoc with the AD economy. By disabling the profession on Gateway, we were able to reduce this artificially inflated number. Unfortunately, botters found a way around this fix. As we looked into the data, and as we analyzed what we could do to fix this exploit, we came to the conclusion that the way to stop the botters was to remove AD from the Leadership profession. There will still be a few sources in there, but nothing that botters can use to continue breaking the economy. In some cases, AD was replaced with extra XP, but by and large, AD was straight- up removed from the profession. We know this will be frustrating for those who were not exploiting, but the downside of leaving AD in the profession was too severe. Once this work is done, Leadership will be re-enabled on Gateway. Remember, we want players to receive Astral Diamonds for the time they spend actively playing the game, so (beyond the exploit) it didn't really make sense to have something that runs in the background as a major source of this currency.

Leadership, while no longer a major source of AD, is still a good source for XP, Gold, and loot items. All of these things are valuable to regular players, but less so to botters.

Invocation & Salvage
At this time there will be no changes made to Invocation and Salvage. We are, however, looking into some better messaging so players know when an item could be salvaged for Astral Diamonds OR used as Refinement Points.

VIP is changing slightly. Previously, you received +15% bonus AD at VIP Rank 1 for Daily Quests. At VIP Rank 2, you received +15% bonus AD on Hourly Events. Now, at Rank 1, you will get 15% bonus on all runs of Dungeons, Skirmishes, and PvP. For PvP in particular, this is a new source of Astral Diamonds.

Future Changes
Beyond addressing the group content listed above, and the botting issue of Leadership, we are also looking at ways for the solo player to earn this time currency. We are evaluating content like Heroic Encounters and Campaigns as likely places to make adjustments, while watching the above changes to make sure they're having the desired effect on group play.

We believe we can make the Astral Diamond economy much more stable and uniform for all players. Want to earn AD? Play Dungeons, Skirmishes, and PvP whenever you have time! Check back soon for more information on future additional AD sources.

Scott Shicoff
Lead Designer


  • valwrynvalwryn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,620 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    Sounds kinda radical..........lots of chaos and screams will ensue........I like it. If I can still easily get more than 24K a day, I'm fine. :#

  • andorrabellandorrabell Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 437 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    When is this happening? Please reconsider putting this in next week BEFORE you have a solution for solo players, at least. Geez.

    Fixing the hourly system is good. So, yay there.

    Where are the AD for campaign tasks, daily task, SOLO TASKS????? Playing the game does not = Skirmishes, PVP and Dungeons for all your players. Those need to go in WITH this change not at some unspecified future date.

    Promises of "we are looking into it" are probably not going to tide them over. Maybe some of them will come back... "news very soon" is also not good enough. We don't trust you. Fix that.

    How are we *ever* supposed to afford GMOPS or STRONGHOLD upgrades (AD sink, surplus equipment- no one is going to want to donate their purples if that is a lone sorce of AD) in your new economy? How are new people or characters (since apparently we will now instead need to gear up a *DUNGEON* army instead of a leadership army)- supposed to afford rings from professions, black ice combines, cubes of augmentation, some of the boons, etc.

    Also please address the price of leveling up companions- it is stupidly high with this change.

    Again, "we will be looking at this at some future date" is not good enough.

    When you take away with one hand you better give with the other. We are talking *massive* investment in this profession and removing AD without adding something else is stealing from us. Please figure something out. Perhaps some account bound ways to make GMOPS and/or Coal Wards? Remove the cap on doing each task only three times?

    It's insane to announce this change without a tandem source for true solo players and addressing the current AD sinks in the game- especially the one that JUST launched in the last mod.
    Post edited by andorrabell on
  • rinat114rinat114 Member Posts: 913 Arc User
    First disabling leadership from the gateway. Now disablding AD from leadership. You have got to be kidding me. At this rate the only players you'll have left are the bots you're so sternly trying to "battle". Unbelieveable.
  • sabiwensabiwen Member Posts: 55 Arc User
    It is radical. This will cause a lot of players to leave, no doubt. I think it is needed, but it's going to take a lot of adjustment on the player part, and it's going to be a hard few months to see what this does to the economy.
  • sorce#8115 sorce Member Posts: 1,009 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    So all of the "content" you created - Elemental Evil, Campaign areas,etc - which you need in order to complete Boons AND for Stronghold currencies, give you nothing? Players need to devote way more time to these then they do to Dungeons, Skirmishes, and PVP.

    The people who are playing your content only have one way to get AD - and that was Leadership. You say that you want to reward people who give their time

    If you haven't yet realised the backlash that is about to hit you, I'd suggest running. Pitchforks and torches are on their way.
    Post edited by sorce#8115 on
  • zebularzebular Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 15,270 Community Moderator
    edited September 2015
    I am on board with this change completely. With my limited game time, the only way I have been able to afford anything is by having a "Leadership Army" and that turned into a catch-22. All my available time each day was spent working Leadership. With these changes, I will be able to stop my "leadership army" and instead spend that 30-90 minutes actually playing the game AND earning AD.

    I feel the pros definitely out-weight the cons and while yes there will be upset folks that can no longer rake in near endless AD (like me), what this does is turn the game economy back on track to what it should be. I feel too that these changes will allow far more people will be able to enjoy the game than those upset. Especially new and returning players. This sounds great to me. Looking forward to actually being able to play the game and not work it.
  • aeragar47aeragar47 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 79 Arc User
    goatshark said:

    Playing PvP
    Old: If you picked up the daily quest, you got 4,000 AD for two matches.
    New: 1. Automatically get 2,000 AD for each of the first two matches. 2. In addition, get 200 to 300 AD per match played (up to a maximum 4,800 AD per day from PvP). Amount varies by time.

    So anyone want to bet there will be a massive increase in campfire sitting in PVP matches? Or bots running in to node 2, attack a few times, then get killed?
  • arran#4326 arran Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 47 Arc User
    I've been doing leadership like crazy for the past 2 months, stacking rp for tomorrow's double rp event, but now this... I just logged off and I'm not going back. See ya later fellas, every game does the same move, every game dies like this.
  • archangelzorak01archangelzorak01 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 324 Arc User
    Where exactly are we now supposed to earn the hundreds of millions of AD that will be needed to upgrade the Stronghold? Unless you want every character in the guild to donate 100% of their daily income. How then are we supposed to invest in our actual characters?

    You designed the AD sinks in the game around the AD generating systems in the game. If you plan on going ahead with this heavy-handed 'adjustment' you damn well better adjust those sinks as well!!
    Neverwinter Module 6: The only MMO expansion in the history of MMO's to remove more content than it added.

  • cloudius1978cloudius1978 Member Posts: 292 Arc User
    Players want to play the game by running dungeons for their BIS gears... (The good old CN days)

    And not to grind the same content daily to acquire countless sets of currencies (which clogs up our inventories) and then to upgrade professions/ structures, which further requires more and different currencies to upgrade, before we can smell our BIS gears...

    And by the time we manage to do all of the above, developers announce a new set of gears coming in the next MOD, making the gears we just farmed our minds off for, instantly obsolete.

    This is disappointing.
  • gankdalf#8991 gankdalf Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 929 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    At least now, everyone will be as poor as me. I didn't do leadership on more than a handful chars and even that i didn't do everyday. Sooo boring.

    The changes will have following effect (I think):

    The players wont get new AD in those big amounts that some are used to. The amount of players that can afford to spend millions of AD on artifacts and mounts etc today will decrease very fast and in high numbers. At one point (soon enough), the demand will be extremely low at current prices.

    That leads to players, bots and whatever gonna have stuff they cant sell, and what do you do when you cant sell your stuff? You lower the price so that the big mass can afford it.

    Its gonna be hard for the players to adapt at first. I mean, nobody wants to sell a mount that with today cost 4m AD for 400k AD, so they will try to sell it for a high price at first and it will take much longer time to get it sold for that high price and the more time passes by, the more players will have the same items to sell so you get uncercutted.

    The value of AD is gonna skyrocket.

    Also: This will need major changes of all ZEN items an vendor prices. A huge portion of players will not farm and wait for weeks to buy one Gmark for 100k (or even 70k (something with VIP). This is just no realistic and I hope you guys understand this. Like farming 3 days for one transmute?

    ▁ ▂ ▄ ▅ ▆ ▇ █ Gankdalf The Icehole █ ▇ ▆ ▅ ▄ ▂ ▁

  • sabiwensabiwen Member Posts: 55 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    The change is going to cause a lot of people to quit. Consider the amounts of AD for things like:
    - RP
    - Marks for enchanting
    - Guild Stronghold
    - Profession tasks for Rings, Belts, etc (100,000 AD)

    Those prices will HAVE to come down, because they are based on a ****stic economy. Most people will not wait around for THAT fix, and will move on to another game. You need to keep your players enticed and encouraged to be able to progress in the game. That was currently leadership, one of the few ways to slowly build up enough AD for the things needed to progress. This change will not fix that, and you will alienate players who enjoy building their toons.
  • iandarkswordiandarksword Member Posts: 978 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    Dungeons, Skirmishes, PvP? Nothing for Foundry content? Really? Not to mention the editor hasn't been active for over 5 weeks and not a peep from anyone on why, or even whether or not you are actively working on it? I've gotten 561 reviews in the 8 weeks the newest version of my quest has been up, and near 2,000 plays, so people ARE playing Foundry content. Other quests have higher amounts than mine, so the argument that people don't play the Foundry doesn't seem to hold up. The issues for the lack of interest are far deeper than "people don't play the Foundry", it's that you haven't made it rewarding for people to play Foundry quests. Perhaps you should open a thread in the Foundry section to get some communication going with those of us who still remain interested, so we can assist in creating a balanced reward system for creating and playing UGC that can add AD in a fair manner and boost the game's economy.
    I'll leave it to others to sound off on the more obvious elephant in the room...
    "I don't know, I'm making it up as I go..."
    Featured Foundry Quest: Whispers of an Ancient Evil [v3] - NW-DQ4WKW6ZG
    Foundry Quest: Harper Chronicles: Blacklake - NW-DCPA4W2Q5
  • azaris#6648 azaris Member Posts: 64 Arc User
    Well, you guys also better slash prices on Greater Marks, boons, transmutes, and everything thing else since you are now basically limiting people to only one, maybe, two toons maxing AD per day. A whole whooping 48k per day. You also might want to give refunds to everyone who purchased extra character slots and spent the time to level each of them up and rank up leadership. This has to be the worst business decision I've ever witnessed.
  • shurato2099shurato2099 Member Posts: 171 Arc User
    Speaking as a solo player who was primarily using Leadership as a slow-and-steady way to build up AD to pay for pretty much everything in this game ... this move reeks. I don't do Dungeons because I don't have BiS gear, Skirmishes only rarely and I avoid PvP like the plague. This move basically kills my AD progression.
  • anim3kanim3k Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 60 Arc User
    Wipe all actual ad on the serwer.Drastical but fix everthing.Then bring back Dungeons and fix loot form the chest:) Simple.
  • izatarizatar Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,161 Arc User
    Woa, this is not a well thought out plan. The addictiveness of doing the crafting is what keeps my buddy playing, once that is gone he will stop, I am certain of it!

    I highly suggest you find another way to deal with bots, or a clever way to hide the leadership nerf.
  • alkemist80alkemist80 Member Posts: 957 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    This is just pure depressing and disgusting move. The rich will stay rich and the poor will be poorer. People will never be able to catch up at this rate.. unless you spend real world money. Oh wait, that's their underlying message here.

    As if we didn't farm the same dungeons and skirmishes over and over already, we have to do it even more to have any source of measly income in this game. Terrible move Cryptic. They should just counter bots instead than hurting the real player base. No wonder they had the double AD weekends, nothing comes without a cost.

    Really took out all the excitement I had for double RP weekend.
    Post edited by alkemist80 on
    Banshee (Devotion Justice Oathbound Paladin) - Crueladevil (Soulbinder Damnation Scourge Warlock) - Sindania Balefire (Master Infiltrator Trickster Rogue)

  • icydiscipleicydisciple Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1 Arc User
    This will kill my ability to "play" Neverwinter." If your intent is to only cater to players who do skirmishes, PVP and Dungeons, then this is NOT my game. It was my game until now. I just bought 7 months of VIP, but doubt that I will continue to log on if this goes into effect. I actually enjoyed doing leadership on my 12 characters every day to watch the astral diamonds accumulate to the point where I could afford Greater Marks of Potency for my main character.

    I play solo. Solo does not mean dungeons, PVP or skirmishes to me. I thought this game was supposed to be "solo friendly," but it's not anymore.

    Even for groupers and guild players, I don't see how advancement will NOT plummet if they have to rely strictly on the character that is currently logged on for all their Astral Diamonds. I overhear my spouse and her guild-mates saying this on TeamSpeak as I'm typing this.
  • klangeddinklangeddin Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 882 Arc User
    Finally AD gets removed from Leadership, FINALLY.
    Really happy about this. Of course more has to be done, Foundry and Heroic Encounters should give AD too, but at least the alt armies can go F emselves now and the playing field is a bit more leveled.
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