Two years ago it cost you about 200% less to advance your toons, they increased the amount it takes and ALSO cut the income to do it.
I have NO problems with reducing AD, if they ALSO roll back some of the costing structure.
And that has been PROMISED. One of the few times I have ever been able to say that. But they don't want to do things wrong by doing everything all at once. There will be changes to a lot of the pricing structure and some are coming sooner than you expect.
As I have said earlier in here the only reason AD sinks had to be so high was to offset the obscene amount coming in from leadership farms. With those gone we will hopefully see a lot of prices down but it is hard to balance all of those changes, logically, without knowing how much these changes effect AD generation so it will take time.
This is my first and possibly last post in this forum, but I’m not a new player, I’m just not very opinionated and have instead lurked the forums. I started playing late last year, so mid mod5 or so? And I have had a blast with this game. The storyline was interesting and rewarding, I spent some dollars on it, the maz about of zen, twice, then bought (!) some T2 gear from the AH, an account mount, bags and stuff; in short, I was a really happy player. Then endgame happened and I struggled to cope with it, and the grind it demanded. So I created multiple characters to play, in the end I had 7 in total, covering all classes except for the CW. I played each and every one of them for a good period of time, to level 60, where they were parked since I could find the time to equip them to play them any further. Then mod6 happened and my main character struggled his way through Elemental Evil, only to find out he wasn’t really viable for endgame anymore. So I made a new main character (paladin, boo!!), and everything was a breeze.
Along the way I found the only was to really make the AD needed to survive what the endgame put in front of me, was to level leadership. So I slowly did. Fast forward to today, 1 of my main character reached lvl24, all alts are between lvl20-23 and my second main is lvl21 (started him last). I guess I made between 200k and 300k AD a week, depending on whether I chose to lvl leadership or just to produce AD tasks.
I shouldn’t need to say it, but I did every single click myself, logged in multiple times a day to keep up tasks and put in a huge amount of time and effort doing so. I never ONCE felt like I ‘didn’t play the game’ or ‘created AD out of thin air’. I played the game as it could be played, as most people I talked to played the game, and as moderators of this forum has said they played the game. Yet, reading the OP of this thread, as well as some condescending posts from fellow players, I should apparently feel bad about actually having levelled leadership and using the gateway to do so. What right does anyone have to make me feel this way? And what right do they have to take it away in a heartbeat? I don’t know exactly when either the leadership profession or the gateway was implemented in the game, but it was there when I started (and I suspect it’s been there for far longer). How was I supposed to understand this was not the way it was intended to work. And if the developers saw this as a problem, why wasn’t this handled in a far far better manner a long long time ago?? There was a limit on how much rAD each character could refine. Why couldn’t there be a limit of leadership characters per account? It’s would make economical sense and still reward the effort made by players. This decision is by far the worst I’ve witnessed in this game, and I think I’ve seen a few. You simply cannot wipe the slate clean this way and not expect bad, profound consequences for the game.
I was happy with my small ensemble of invoking AD mules, they made it possible to keep my two main characters afloat, nothing less nothing more. If anything I think the AD gained from doing professions made me stay in the game longer. Because now you have lost me as a player. In the end it comes down to this. I have no incentive to continue playing. Whatever I put down in terms of time and effort to earn, you can obviously yank away instantly and without warning, just because. I can’t play a game like this. And I’m both sad and relieved.
I’m sad because I really have enjoyed this game (the first 6 months, a LOT, the last 6 mounts less, but still). I’m relieved because you have made it easy for me to leave the game behind and don’t look back.
+1 Thanks for writing this (i would have liked to write that but as i'm French ....) The problem is .... that your little LS army allowed you to advance the game without, according to Cryptic, paying enough money. LS armies users were too independant for Cryptic. So they kill us.
Then how about removing AD from Leadership on Xbox too, since it's not so important, why wait? Let the Xbox players have some fun too.
Because changes to xbox come at slower pace.
I think we are so very...very much beyond the AD loss in Leadership now. And maybe I've gotten way too close to the stink, but this is just the last of many, many BS moves they've made to this game to alienate their player base.
And I think this is the one that breaks its player base for good...
Hardly true. Much was added, lots of good stuff. Some stuff needs to be worked on, but it's not as bad. Can you give some example of how the playerbase is alienated that is not economy based?
how about removing seals of triumph the day that they released pvp armour set that needs them as a component? thats not tecnicly economy based, or a month or so back requiring people to farm 3x the exp for power points while apparently droping the rate the points drop when you do aquire the almost 2 million exp per roll at a point, or making the campain zones unacessable before lvl 70, or not making the vigilances give 2x the exp when they halved the number needed so you still have to grind out the same number of them. i could go on :P
leechers, bug abusers, former exploiters, hipocrites, botters, macro boys and others aberrarions destroy the game...think about this when a regular player is stomped in PvP for certain player guildies...
Two years ago it cost you about 200% less to advance your toons, they increased the amount it takes and ALSO cut the income to do it.
I have NO problems with reducing AD, if they ALSO roll back some of the costing structure.
And that has been PROMISED. One of the few times I have ever been able to say that. But they don't want to do things wrong by doing everything all at once. There will be changes to a lot of the pricing structure and some are coming sooner than you expect.
As I have said earlier in here the only reason AD sinks had to be so high was to offset the obscene amount coming in from leadership farms. With those gone we will hopefully see a lot of prices down but it is hard to balance all of those changes, logically, without knowing how much these changes effect AD generation so it will take time.
if thats the case ambi why did they remove dailys on the same day as they removed LD? it was fine to jump strait in and criple any ability to generate AD but it wasnt ok to introduce the reduction of a single AD sink? cummon, they even made it so the day new pvp armour released you lost the ability to get seals of triumph to purchase it
The system will balance out in time. The majority of player complaints really do revolve around chicken little comments which show a lack of understanding or remembrance to economic changes. Economies are a balancing acts and the old system had a hundred pound brick on one side and a feather on the other. It was horrible. It will take time for that hundred pound brick to dissipate but it will in time. The sky is not falling.
You still do not seem to get that this was done in a slap dash haphazard fashion without any real thought about the impact of what was being done on what was left in the leadership crafting. If you are going to do something this drastic at least make sure all necessary adjustments have been made before the change and not weeks (or more likely months) after.
Two years ago it cost you about 200% less to advance your toons, they increased the amount it takes and ALSO cut the income to do it.
I have NO problems with reducing AD, if they ALSO roll back some of the costing structure.
And that has been PROMISED. One of the few times I have ever been able to say that. But they don't want to do things wrong by doing everything all at once. There will be changes to a lot of the pricing structure and some are coming sooner than you expect.
As I have said earlier in here the only reason AD sinks had to be so high was to offset the obscene amount coming in from leadership farms. With those gone we will hopefully see a lot of prices down but it is hard to balance all of those changes, logically, without knowing how much these changes effect AD generation so it will take time.
Hello Ambisinisterr Lost dunjeons have been promised to be back....several months ago. We are still waiting. 5 days to delay LS armies What else to say/think? Now, if we want to earn 24kAD, we MUST do sames dunj (VT, eLoL or eCC) 4 times a day AND skyrmisc 4 times a day AND pvp matches 4 times a day And if we dont' like pve or pvp, how can we do? Do we have the choice? Where is the fun? Kind regards John
lets face this for what it is, PW thought that with the release of a new pvp they would stimulate the market for people wanting BiS enchants and they wanted to get as many $$$ from that as they could, but in the process of that they made it pointless to even play the new content and im guessing didnt stimulate their $$$ very much at all, im guessing the last RP weekend wasnt the economic success of previous ones and this was there reaction
Leadership farms were a bad choice from the start. If you dig hard enough you will find me musing on the possibilities of earning AD for our time investment in the game before the game was even in Alpha as well as posts within the Alpha forums (which you do not have access to) in which I gave negative feedback on the lack of AD earned through standard gameplay.
I'm not unhappy. I'm elated. This is how it should have been from the start and my only gripe is that this decision took two years to make.
Why don't go back to the start then, and make all drops BOE again? So we could really have an AD income.
The system will balance out in time. The majority of player complaints really do revolve around chicken little comments which show a lack of understanding or remembrance to economic changes. Economies are a balancing acts and the old system had a hundred pound brick on one side and a feather on the other. It was horrible. It will take time for that hundred pound brick to dissipate but it will in time. The sky is not falling.
You still do not seem to get that this was done in a slap dash haphazard fashion without any real thought about the impact of what was being done on what was left in the leadership crafting. If you are going to do something this drastic at least make sure all necessary adjustments have been made before the change and not weeks (or more likely months) after.
Two years ago it cost you about 200% less to advance your toons, they increased the amount it takes and ALSO cut the income to do it.
I have NO problems with reducing AD, if they ALSO roll back some of the costing structure.
And that has been PROMISED. One of the few times I have ever been able to say that. But they don't want to do things wrong by doing everything all at once. There will be changes to a lot of the pricing structure and some are coming sooner than you expect.
As I have said earlier in here the only reason AD sinks had to be so high was to offset the obscene amount coming in from leadership farms. With those gone we will hopefully see a lot of prices down but it is hard to balance all of those changes, logically, without knowing how much these changes effect AD generation so it will take time.
Hello Ambisinisterr Lost dunjeons have been promised to be back....several months ago. We are still waiting. 5 days to delay LS armies What else to say/think? Kind regards John
Not promises. We need facts. We have seen they can be fast enough to remove AD, they can be fast enough to introduce changes that benefit the players, instead of crushing them.
While it's admirable to go against the tide if you're right, you do not even have your own interests at heart in this. I believe you have said that you have a leadership army as well, correct? And you're OK with having all of your time and money invested into the game thrown out with the strawman "because bots?"
Yes.
I have been here since May of 2012 if not earlier. Finding a post in my history is now like finding a needle in a haystack but I remember a lot of my hopes and desires for the game before launch and I had made plenty of posts regarding my hope for how the game would award AD.
I imagined and hoped for a system where you would get some AD for doing everything. You would log in and play and earn AD for doing whatever you wanted but that is not what we received.
We received a system in which the amount of AD you generated was based on how much time you devoted to maintaining leadership farms. The best way to describe me as a person and as a gamer is that I play to win in every aspect of life. If I devote my time to something then I do whatever I can within the rules to succeed.
So no this is not exactly in my best interests based on what I was forced to do in order to succeed. But I am not, like many of you, applying my current situation to my decision. I am considering what should have been done from the start and how the game should have been and basing my feeling on what will make a better future for the game.
Leadership farms were a bad choice from the start. If you dig hard enough you will find me musing on the possibilities of earning AD for our time investment in the game before the game was even in Alpha as well as posts within the Alpha forums (which you do not have access to) in which I gave negative feedback on the lack of AD earned through standard gameplay.
I'm not unhappy. I'm elated. This is how it should have been from the start and my only gripe is that this decision took two years to make.
The system will balance out in time. The majority of player complaints really do revolve around chicken little comments which show a lack of understanding or remembrance to economic changes. Economies are a balancing acts and the old system had a hundred pound brick on one side and a feather on the other. It was horrible. It will take time for that hundred pound brick to dissipate but it will in time. The sky is not falling.
Ambi,
I totally agree that the leadership profession was a bad choice. Very bad! I've been reading this thread since it's inception last week and many other players also recognise that leadership itself and the potential to take it to extremes has had an adverse affect on the economy and needed to be resolved. As such I'll merrily set aside my small detachment of leadership guys/set them to work in other ways. That (for me) is no big deal, and I can cope with it.
I don't doubt for one second that Goatshark and the rest of the dev team knew that announcement was going to produce an enormous volume of anger and vitriol as players see the farms they invested in fizzle out. I have a mental image of them in a 1960's duck and cover civil defence film. It is though, a situation of their own making. With the addition of a further 5 levels for professions, they added yet more tasks yielding higher amounts of AD. This is also in the context of just how many character slots a player can buy. Really, what were they expecting all of those character slots to be used for? They indirectly gave sanction to the behaviour. They sent the wrong message from the beginning and then carried on sending it. In essence throwing kerosine on the bonfire of the economy. It was a bad choice from the start and needed to change. Better late than never i suppose.
What I begrudge is the manner in which this message has been delivered. We are now one week on from Scott's message, and there has been no further official communication that I am aware of. I know that to a greater or lesser extent you have some knowledge of changes coming. Changes that were "promised" as you say, but this needs to be coming from the company with a clear outline of the future path. The change has ripped the heart of AD production out of the game, but the lack of communication has ripped hope from many that are/were developing their characters. I've seen some leave because they don't see any hope in progressing. They promised better communication, and this ain't it!
I've been here since beta and I love this game, but even I'm driven to anger by this, but not over the loss of AD from leadership.
I'm angry that the AD has been removed from it but not one iota of consideration has been paid to the remaining tasks. I'm angry at the value attributed to the new way of rewarding AD. I'm angry that that doesn't even work properly and is bugged. Most of all, I'm angry that 69 pages on and Scott is conspicuous in his absence
It feels that the honest player hasn't been thought of, and worst of all it just feel amateur
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Ok, so now do I get a refund for all the GMoPs I overspent on in the last couple of weeks? Since they cost me all my ADs, lowering the price really doesn't help. (not to mention refunds for my leadership assets)
Right now I need 40+ GMoPs for enchants that are ready to upgrade, plus the 20 or so enchants I need to buy, because you need 2 to upgrade, plus wards.
Yes, this is what 5 characters needed their leadership for. To tread water, not get rich.
I have no legendary artifacts, no legendary, anything, no rank 9s let alone 10s, and I have been doing leadership with 4 characters for the last 2+ years, and now I have a 5th almost to 20.
Not interested in pvp, or in farming group dungeons, over and over and over and over and over, ad infinitum.
Stronghold does not need any upgrading, since it is not in any danger. The guards are always asleep, and I'm not allowed to kill them for dereliction of duty.
@okeephe 's situation illustrates why you guys need to do SMALL steps, like Blizzard generally does. Tweaks, not Booms.
For example, instead of going from gmops cost 100k down to 25k in an instant, have a two-fold effort: 1. propoganda and chit-chat talk going... "we are seriously looking at dropping prices of gmops" in forums, for 2-3 weeks solid etc. 2. then start taking 10k a week of the price till you get it like you want.
Otherwise, players get caught with their pants down and get burned and pissed off.
Same with leadership. You had 'hints' at it (remove from gateway). But why make players try to read your mind? 1. Just have your propoganda going for a month or so, "AD generation from leadership is too much, we are going to be reducing it". 2. Then start into it, cutting it 10-20% a week until you get it down to what you want (zero i guess).
Otherwise, players are sitting 'in-the-red' on their investment, getting burned, and pissed off.
Two years ago it cost you about 200% less to advance your toons, they increased the amount it takes and ALSO cut the income to do it.
I have NO problems with reducing AD, if they ALSO roll back some of the costing structure.
And that has been PROMISED. One of the few times I have ever been able to say that. But they don't want to do things wrong by doing everything all at once. There will be changes to a lot of the pricing structure and some are coming sooner than you expect.
As I have said earlier in here the only reason AD sinks had to be so high was to offset the obscene amount coming in from leadership farms. With those gone we will hopefully see a lot of prices down but it is hard to balance all of those changes, logically, without knowing how much these changes effect AD generation so it will take time.
The problem is that so few people trust them to keep their promises, let alone keep them in a realistic time frame that doesn't result in people wondering "Why am I still here putting up with this, when you can't throw a stone these days without hitting a high-fantasy D&D-Esque MMO?"
We were promised they were looking into the issues with Mod 6, and it took months (and a few instances of actually making the problem worse) before they finally got around to fixing it. We were promised that they were looking into the issues surrounding the Account-Wide-Companion debacle from June that is (to my knowledge, please correct me if I am wrong) unresolved to this day. When its quite clear what was promised, and it would cost PWE nothing to uphold that promise.
Some of us bought into VIP, wanting to support the game. We've now seen, in less than a month, the terms of our VIP changed, with our bonuses being stripped away and an at-best buggy replacement put in place that only seems to work when it feels like it, thus making us feel cheated and extremely hesitant to invest real world money again, because we don't know if they'll blindside us again.
In sum, trust is finite, a resource, if you will. And if you 'cash in' on player trust too often, you will find yourself overdrawn. So... and please, don't take this as being leveled at you personally, that's not my intention: give me a reason to trust them.
Show me actions. Show me minutes from meetings. Show evidence. Hard. Irrefutable. Evidence that they are going to fix these issues in a timely fashion. Words are cheap, and we've heard these same words so many times without actions to back them up that their words have lost all meaning.
I don't like being in this position. Much as I rail on the game, I love Neverwinter at its core. I want to see it succeed and become one of the greats. I want to trust these guys enough to be willing to restart VIP investment and buying Zen. I want to trust the Devs here. But I've been burned multiple times by trusting them before, and others many times more than me. Once burned. Twice shy. I cannot go on blind faith and promises alone, because Cryptic does not seem to believe that their word is their bond. I cannot go on their word alone. There must be actions, clear and concrete, to back them up.
Nobody here from the company will comment on this. You're just raging as this is unrelated feedback to the topic - just one more reason to complain more. On glassdoor they have average score as a company, with good and bad reviews - pity you didn't mention both as it would make your post more credible. Notice also that people who complain or are offended are more likely to post commnets. People who are content rarely have a reason to.
Maybe you are right... OR... these comments represent the reality about the company. Because the indications ingame reflect pretty much what the former AND CURRENT employees have to say.
Oh and btw I know stuff about Cryptic that explains WAY MORE, but because of anonymity I will not post it. Just ask a dev about the original source code *hint hint*
Players of every game say this. Complain about certain things - especially in free to play. The game is pretty good, overall. I don't understand that much all this hate for removing AD from Leadership. If it wasn't there in the first place, nobody would mind. Prices in Auction House will change in time, it's purely player based.
Your comment pretty much marks you as one of those who pays cash into the game, and as someone who has never discovered the previous leadership AD making structure. Or as some Cryptic Shill.
Shakes head. Shrugs. Ah, what the heck.
See, this thread is NOT about the AH. It's about making AD to make progress in the game. Read the whole thing, get a CLUE, and then maybe you'll be worth my time.
OH. And as of a couple of mins Ago. One Zen was sellling for 438 AD. Which is the same as it was yesterday. Yep. Pulling out all those leadership AD that were unbalancing the system. Yep. Really had an effect.
Cryptic has enabled the Patriot Act. A few people run bots so everyone has to take their shoes off.
Way to ruin a decent game. I have 6 toons(5 @60+ and 1@70) and I logged into each of them EVERY SINGLE DAY, did my devotions, professions and maybe played a little. Will probably hang on for a bit but have lost that loving feeling and will definitely not dump more cash into this game. It was fun.
I have six as well 1@ 70 and 5 getting there, I used them to buy enchantment refinements for my level 70 main character now they are all useless. And I am now ware near getting my level 70 up to where he needs to be and now I most likely never will, Thanks cryptic for HAMSTER up the game. And if cryptic thinks grinding leadership is unfair, why did they make the profession in the first place. Also, I paid for the hero of the north packs and dragon born an the extra character slots so what the hell was the problem I still do not understand why the Astral diamond's we got from the leadership profession was a problem.
While it's admirable to go against the tide if you're right, you do not even have your own interests at heart in this. I believe you have said that you have a leadership army as well, correct? And you're OK with having all of your time and money invested into the game thrown out with the strawman "because bots?"
Yes.
I have been here since May of 2012 if not earlier.
Leadership farms were a bad choice from the start. If you dig hard enough you will find me musing on the possibilities of earning AD for our time investment in the game before the game was even in Alpha as well as posts within the Alpha forums (which you do not have access to) in which I gave negative feedback on the lack of AD earned through standard gameplay.
I'm not unhappy. I'm elated. This is how it should have been from the start and my only gripe is that this decision took two years to make.
The system will balance out in time. The majority of player complaints really do revolve around chicken little comments which show a lack of understanding or remembrance to economic changes. Economies are a balancing acts and the old system had a hundred pound brick on one side and a feather on the other.
Ok. So you've been here as long as I have. Cheers for you. Now, quite a few people seem to like you, and you're a mod, so you could just delete anything I say to slag you, but some points come to mind. And those points are NOT going to go away just because you zap this post.
I've been tracking AD to Zen on every log in. I freely admit that this is "short term", but short term in an economic system can give indicators to long term. SO... yesterday at about this time of day One Zen was selling for 438 AD. TODAY it was selling at the same price... just before I logged into this thread.
An early price stabilization like this is VERY BAD from the standpoint of the "leadership nerf". Now maybe in a week it will start to trend down. But I see this as an indicator that the cheaters, the "botters" who the nerf was supposedly aimed at, are still in business. Otherwise AD to Zen should STILL BE TRENDING DOWN.
Second... this may seem off topic, but bear with me. I've been a reservist, a gamer, a guy that gets around. I've met and know quite a few people. In my travels I happen to have met a chappie that goes by the handle of "Peregrine Falcon". Still game with him Online every week.
You might ask your fellow mods at STO about the dev carnage that PF has wrought.
Which leads to point Number three... Cyptic is really beginning to get a reputation for, hmmm, shall we say lackluster products? For instance, all the AD earning STILL isn't fixed in NW.... dungeons, PvP, etc are still NOT delivering the AD "promised". At least that's what people in game are saying.
The trend needs to end now, or other web sites, ones that are open forum discussion w/o any interest in protecting PW's and NW's bottom line, are going to be shouting the same thing.... "Don't play PW games. They're a rip-off! Totally Stay away from Cyptic games! They can't program themselves out of a paper bag!"
The final point... word of mouth can and does kill business. If you get a bad reputation, it WILL catch up with you, sooner or later. Especially in this day and age of electronic connectivity.
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coolgeek357Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 91Arc User
What about those of us who actually work for a living, have families and that thing called A LIFE! and therefore don't have a lot of time and are supporting ourselves and therefore don't have a lot of money but still like to play. Ever think about us...I didn't thinks so.
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coolgeek357Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 91Arc User
edited September 2015
Also I am a solo player and because of this change I will not be making a lot if any AD in the near future. I hope Cryptic does not take forever looking into doing something for the solo player. I don't do a lot of PVP or Skirmish because I play Neverwinter as a MMORPG and not a FPS with swords and spells. I like advancing my charcters through story line quest and campaigns none of which will offer AD. Doing dungeons can be a pain for a solo player because you have to find a group and hope they are not !@#$%^&* and try to loot kick you. I also agree with the post above, bad press will kill you. I have a friend who has left the game and bad mouths it in favor of his new game every chance he gets. He left when life steal got nurfed and never gave the game or developers a chance again. Losing 1 player may not seem like much but how many did we lose because of that one. I hate cheaters, but more I hate what they do to honest players when fixes wreck the game they love and want to play. Cryptic, you need to stop doing knee jerk responses to problems. The reduction to the cost of items should have been release with the AD changes and neither should have been released until the other things you are thinking about were ready.
What about those of us who actually work for a living, have families and that thing called A LIFE! and therefore don't have a lot of time and are supporting ourselves and therefore don't have a lot of money but still like to play. Ever think about us...I didn't thinks so.
Hey, I feel your pain. That's the biggest issue w/ the leadership "nerf". It takes AWAY the ability of the casual player to make a steady, ready source of AD's to help build up their toons. AND, by doing this nerf, NOW those casual players have even LESS incentive to open their wallets occasionally.
After all, if you need say 10 Greater Marks of Potency to upgrade a toon for some reason, and you could generate enough AD's in a couple of weeks of Leadership mishes to buy Six or Eight GMoPs, you are much more likely to THEN open your wallet and buy some Zen and then convert them to AD's to buy the other ones needed. Just so you can get that toon upgraded and them move on to playing or to improving another toon.
But apparently that simple logic escapes certain organizations around here.
I'm not sure if anyone's suggested this. But has anyone considered the possibility of making gold more important to the economy to make up for the loss of ways to earn AD?
As it stands, gold is practically useless at higher levels. Except for unslotting enchants and buying profession supplies, I haven't used it at all for several months on any of my characters. Strongholds gave some purpose for it, but currently it's still the single most useless piece of currency in the game. However, you still get it all the time through gameplay.
So, my suggestion: the various things you need to use AD for now - marks of potency, upgrading mounts and companions, maybe even campaign progress, etc - change them to being worth gold instead. That way, you don't have to choose between running dungeons, skirmishes, and PvP over and over and over or progressing your character along the campaigns. At least, not nearly so much. The developers could set the prices so that it still takes time to earn the gold you need. And the players would get rewarded for doing gameplay - no matter what form of gameplay they happen to enjoy. You could keep some things still requiring AD, to keep the currency from becoming meaningless.
Just a suggestion.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
Two years ago it cost you about 200% less to advance your toons, they increased the amount it takes and ALSO cut the income to do it.
I have NO problems with reducing AD, if they ALSO roll back some of the costing structure.
And that has been PROMISED. One of the few times I have ever been able to say that. But they don't want to do things wrong by doing everything all at once. There will be changes to a lot of the pricing structure and some are coming sooner than you expect.
As I have said earlier in here the only reason AD sinks had to be so high was to offset the obscene amount coming in from leadership farms. With those gone we will hopefully see a lot of prices down but it is hard to balance all of those changes, logically, without knowing how much these changes effect AD generation so it will take time.
I didn't see any promises, maybe I missed it? Was this a behind the scenes thing?
I said earlier in this thread that a promise and some more clarity would go a very long way to keep people from jumping ship. At least for a while, while things are worked out. It would be ironic if there was a promise that no one knew about.
Goatshark stated several times in this very thread that pricing structure will change.
Why can't we make some kind of a compromise? If Leadership had a task that allowed you to Refine more than 24k ad a day limit? Kind of like the Black Ice forge as far as refining x? That way you'd still have to earn the unrefined AD but you're not totally out with having leadership leveled to max?
Relmyna - AC/DC Righteous + Haste| Nadine - CW MoF (working on it)|Buffy - GF SM Tact| Hrist - Justice Tankadin|Healadin (Wannabe Tank)| Lena -MI Sabo TR (Farmer) | Jeska - GWF SM Destroyer (Farmer) | Maggie - HR PF Trapper (Wannabe DPS)
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I'll never retrace my steps.
People keep saying that it was abused and exploited... after it was removed from the gateway how exactly is spending hundreds of hours and paying money to add character slots..spending money to invest in adventures and hero's an exploit.. if these people that did this by hand spent the same amount of time in game playing as they did Lvling toons for months to get to lvl 25 leadership they would have made millions of ad...if you have the time and the patience to do so.. you should reap the benefits.... it is complete bull that it was pulled out from people who legitimately spent the 1000s of hours to lvl multiple toons to lvl 25 leadership without giving those players something in return... anyone who cries about it were just to lazy to do it themselves or felt it wasn't how the game should be played....The tos never stated that it was an exploit. Even the community mods did it... not to mention it wasn't like people were making so much that they were getting bis gear in days... it still took months to lvl the toons and months to recoup the losses and months to get enough ad to bis out a toon.. not to mentions the 1000s of hours it takes to do it by hand... not sure how that is ripping off anyone..yeah sure those players Will have more time to play the game..but the whole point was to spend the time doing leadership so you didn't have to grind...and could actually spend your time ENJOYING the game..I know so many players that did nothing but pvp including myself who still spent 1000s of dollars every year on the game, but also had leader armies to substitute the lack of income from not running dungeons like all the pve players... I'm out..mic drop
Comments
As I have said earlier in here the only reason AD sinks had to be so high was to offset the obscene amount coming in from leadership farms. With those gone we will hopefully see a lot of prices down but it is hard to balance all of those changes, logically, without knowing how much these changes effect AD generation so it will take time.
Thanks for writing this (i would have liked to write that but as i'm French ....)
The problem is ....
that your little LS army allowed you to advance the game without, according to Cryptic, paying enough money.
LS armies users were too independant for Cryptic.
So they kill us.
how about removing seals of triumph the day that they released pvp armour set that needs them as a component? thats not tecnicly economy based, or a month or so back requiring people to farm 3x the exp for power points while apparently droping the rate the points drop when you do aquire the almost 2 million exp per roll at a point, or making the campain zones unacessable before lvl 70, or not making the vigilances give 2x the exp when they halved the number needed so you still have to grind out the same number of them. i could go on :P
Lost dunjeons have been promised to be back....several months ago.
We are still waiting.
5 days to delay LS armies
What else to say/think?
Now, if we want to earn 24kAD, we MUST do sames dunj (VT, eLoL or eCC) 4 times a day AND skyrmisc 4 times a day AND pvp matches 4 times a day
And if we dont' like pve or pvp, how can we do?
Do we have the choice? Where is the fun?
Kind regards
John
I totally agree that the leadership profession was a bad choice. Very bad! I've been reading this thread since it's inception last week and many other players also recognise that leadership itself and the potential to take it to extremes has had an adverse affect on the economy and needed to be resolved.
As such I'll merrily set aside my small detachment of leadership guys/set them to work in other ways. That (for me) is no big deal, and I can cope with it.
I don't doubt for one second that Goatshark and the rest of the dev team knew that announcement was going to produce an enormous volume of anger and vitriol as players see the farms they invested in fizzle out. I have a mental image of them in a 1960's duck and cover civil defence film.
It is though, a situation of their own making. With the addition of a further 5 levels for professions, they added yet more tasks yielding higher amounts of AD. This is also in the context of just how many character slots a player can buy. Really, what were they expecting all of those character slots to be used for? They indirectly gave sanction to the behaviour.
They sent the wrong message from the beginning and then carried on sending it. In essence throwing kerosine on the bonfire of the economy.
It was a bad choice from the start and needed to change. Better late than never i suppose.
What I begrudge is the manner in which this message has been delivered.
We are now one week on from Scott's message, and there has been no further official communication that I am aware of.
I know that to a greater or lesser extent you have some knowledge of changes coming. Changes that were "promised" as you say, but this needs to be coming from the company with a clear outline of the future path.
The change has ripped the heart of AD production out of the game, but the lack of communication has ripped hope from many that are/were developing their characters. I've seen some leave because they don't see any hope in progressing.
They promised better communication, and this ain't it!
I've been here since beta and I love this game, but even I'm driven to anger by this, but not over the loss of AD from leadership.
I'm angry that the AD has been removed from it but not one iota of consideration has been paid to the remaining tasks.
I'm angry at the value attributed to the new way of rewarding AD.
I'm angry that that doesn't even work properly and is bugged.
Most of all, I'm angry that 69 pages on and Scott is conspicuous in his absence
It feels that the honest player hasn't been thought of, and worst of all it just feel amateur
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1204516/marks-of-potency-pricing-changes
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Right now I need 40+ GMoPs for enchants that are ready to upgrade, plus the 20 or so enchants I need to buy, because you need 2 to upgrade, plus wards.
Yes, this is what 5 characters needed their leadership for. To tread water, not get rich.
I have no legendary artifacts, no legendary, anything, no rank 9s let alone 10s, and I have been doing leadership with 4 characters for the last 2+ years, and now I have a 5th almost to 20.
Not interested in pvp, or in farming group dungeons, over and over and over and over and over, ad infinitum.
Stronghold does not need any upgrading, since it is not in any danger. The guards are always asleep, and I'm not allowed to kill them for dereliction of duty.
So, tell me again, why should I stay?
For example, instead of going from gmops cost 100k down to 25k in an instant, have a two-fold effort:
1. propoganda and chit-chat talk going... "we are seriously looking at dropping prices of gmops" in forums, for 2-3 weeks solid etc.
2. then start taking 10k a week of the price till you get it like you want.
Otherwise, players get caught with their pants down and get burned and pissed off.
Same with leadership. You had 'hints' at it (remove from gateway). But why make players try to read your mind?
1. Just have your propoganda going for a month or so, "AD generation from leadership is too much, we are going to be reducing it".
2. Then start into it, cutting it 10-20% a week until you get it down to what you want (zero i guess).
Otherwise, players are sitting 'in-the-red' on their investment, getting burned, and pissed off.
We were promised they were looking into the issues with Mod 6, and it took months (and a few instances of actually making the problem worse) before they finally got around to fixing it. We were promised that they were looking into the issues surrounding the Account-Wide-Companion debacle from June that is (to my knowledge, please correct me if I am wrong) unresolved to this day. When its quite clear what was promised, and it would cost PWE nothing to uphold that promise.
Some of us bought into VIP, wanting to support the game. We've now seen, in less than a month, the terms of our VIP changed, with our bonuses being stripped away and an at-best buggy replacement put in place that only seems to work when it feels like it, thus making us feel cheated and extremely hesitant to invest real world money again, because we don't know if they'll blindside us again.
In sum, trust is finite, a resource, if you will. And if you 'cash in' on player trust too often, you will find yourself overdrawn. So... and please, don't take this as being leveled at you personally, that's not my intention: give me a reason to trust them.
Show me actions. Show me minutes from meetings. Show evidence. Hard. Irrefutable. Evidence that they are going to fix these issues in a timely fashion. Words are cheap, and we've heard these same words so many times without actions to back them up that their words have lost all meaning.
I don't like being in this position. Much as I rail on the game, I love Neverwinter at its core. I want to see it succeed and become one of the greats. I want to trust these guys enough to be willing to restart VIP investment and buying Zen. I want to trust the Devs here. But I've been burned multiple times by trusting them before, and others many times more than me. Once burned. Twice shy. I cannot go on blind faith and promises alone, because Cryptic does not seem to believe that their word is their bond. I cannot go on their word alone. There must be actions, clear and concrete, to back them up.
Shakes head. Shrugs. Ah, what the heck.
See, this thread is NOT about the AH. It's about making AD to make progress in the game. Read the whole thing, get a CLUE, and then maybe you'll be worth my time.
OH. And as of a couple of mins Ago. One Zen was sellling for 438 AD. Which is the same as it was yesterday. Yep. Pulling out all those leadership AD that were unbalancing the system. Yep. Really had an effect.
See earlier posts for some education.
Now, quite a few people seem to like you, and you're a mod, so you could just delete anything I say to slag you, but some points come to mind. And those points are NOT going to go away just because you zap this post.
I've been tracking AD to Zen on every log in. I freely admit that this is "short term", but short term in an economic system can give indicators to long term. SO... yesterday at about this time of day One Zen was selling for 438 AD. TODAY it was selling at the same price... just before I logged into this thread.
An early price stabilization like this is VERY BAD from the standpoint of the "leadership nerf". Now maybe in a week it will start to trend down. But I see this as an indicator that the cheaters, the "botters" who the nerf was supposedly aimed at, are still in business. Otherwise AD to Zen should STILL BE TRENDING DOWN.
Second... this may seem off topic, but bear with me. I've been a reservist, a gamer, a guy that gets around. I've met and know quite a few people. In my travels I happen to have met a chappie that goes by the handle of "Peregrine Falcon". Still game with him Online every week.
You might ask your fellow mods at STO about the dev carnage that PF has wrought.
Which leads to point Number three... Cyptic is really beginning to get a reputation for, hmmm, shall we say lackluster products? For instance, all the AD earning STILL isn't fixed in NW.... dungeons, PvP, etc are still NOT delivering the AD "promised". At least that's what people in game are saying.
The trend needs to end now, or other web sites, ones that are open forum discussion w/o any interest in protecting PW's and NW's bottom line, are going to be shouting the same thing.... "Don't play PW games. They're a rip-off! Totally Stay away from Cyptic games! They can't program themselves out of a paper bag!"
The final point... word of mouth can and does kill business. If you get a bad reputation, it WILL catch up with you, sooner or later. Especially in this day and age of electronic connectivity.
After all, if you need say 10 Greater Marks of Potency to upgrade a toon for some reason, and you could generate enough AD's in a couple of weeks of Leadership mishes to buy Six or Eight GMoPs, you are much more likely to THEN open your wallet and buy some Zen and then convert them to AD's to buy the other ones needed. Just so you can get that toon upgraded and them move on to playing or to improving another toon.
But apparently that simple logic escapes certain organizations around here.
As it stands, gold is practically useless at higher levels. Except for unslotting enchants and buying profession supplies, I haven't used it at all for several months on any of my characters. Strongholds gave some purpose for it, but currently it's still the single most useless piece of currency in the game. However, you still get it all the time through gameplay.
So, my suggestion: the various things you need to use AD for now - marks of potency, upgrading mounts and companions, maybe even campaign progress, etc - change them to being worth gold instead. That way, you don't have to choose between running dungeons, skirmishes, and PvP over and over and over or progressing your character along the campaigns. At least, not nearly so much. The developers could set the prices so that it still takes time to earn the gold you need. And the players would get rewarded for doing gameplay - no matter what form of gameplay they happen to enjoy. You could keep some things still requiring AD, to keep the currency from becoming meaningless.
Just a suggestion.
It was not a behind the scenes thing.
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I'll never retrace my steps.
Some of my best friends are Imaginary.