I've played this game off and on for a couple of years. I don't have a leadership army (my highest in leadership is only level 13) so I'm not biased because I don't earn a lot of AD from it.
That being said, these changes are HORRIBLE. Now I'm being forced to play content that I don't want to play to get currency that's REQUIRED for upgrades. And did they forget that 60-69 can't even do skirmishes because of another one of their needless changes? So until I hit 70 (an awful grind in and of itself), one method of earning diamonds isn't even available to me. I'm stuck with dungeons, which are boring because there are so few now and PvP, which I absolutely detest.
I don't believe these changes are even going to stop the bots, but then again I don't think that's why they are doing this. It's obviously got to do with money. Less diamonds means more people might pony up real dough to get what they need. I've spent a bit of money on the game myself, but this move ensures that I will not spend anymore - if I even continue playing.
This should have been done long ago, before a large percentage of the player base became invested in creating Leadership alts. Two years of leadership AD farming established the practice as not only acceptable, but encouraged by the Devs (especially considering Community Moderator participation in promoting it) and a sense of being mandatory by the players. This is why we, the players, feel betrayed right now.
We need constant routine feedback from the Devs on this in order to reassure the community that this is being very careful and "on the ball" with updating the Wondrous Bizarre and other AD sinks that will shortly become insurmountable to the average player. The players will leave if they perceive the GMoPs as requiring 1 week of running the same dungeon 24/7. Forget about anyone progressing their Strongholds.
Some changes would be extremely useful to reassuring the player base. 1. A rapid reassessment of AD sinks. I suspect that the Devs have a specific AD threshold in mind before doing this, but the players need to see a light at end of the tunnel rather than a road out of service sign.
2. Reducing the cost in materials for refinement (ie no more 5x GMoP + x# of equally leveled enchants + x# additional Greater Marks)
3. A total rework of many professions, not just Leadership. (Currently the only useful professions are Alchemy, Jewelcrafting, Black Ice, and the armor skills, and their level 25 buffs all have 100k AD sinks built in. Weaponsmithing and Artificing are completely useless and Leadership is getting hammered into the ground) Adding RP, possibly BtA, to all professions would be something to consider. Craftable transmutes would also be well received. Redirecting Leadership rewards to SH materials seems like a no brainer.
4. Bring back all the closed dungeons. The dungeons currently available are so limited that grinding them for AD is just mind numbing. Why not place RP, wards, and greater marks as the chest & boss rewards instead of a brand new 145 gear? This would limit power creep and expand player options. I seriously doubt Bots will be able to grind a buffed up Castle Never any time soon.
5. A total reassessment of the SH currency requirements and HE rewards. Why expect players to sacrifice potential AD earning time as well as millions of RP and refined AD?
6. Bring the Foundry back online with actual rewards for mission completion. (again BtA RP, wards, marks and transmutes would limit bots and reward players while providing OPTIONS)
7. Create AD rewards for solo players, immediately. Dungeons/PvP/Skirmishes do not draw casual players.
8. Change all BoP items to BoA. This will keep our alts viable and address the AD to alt concerns.
this hasn't even went live and its already effecting the game
4.7 million worth of zen orders disappeared of the zax today isn't anyone even offering to buy zen at 500 anymore lol but they will never admit this is the reason there going to feed us some lie about the double rp event cleared out the backlog story
on another note if they want to make ad a time based currency then they need to put it were most casuals play like in the campiaign dailes I spend 90% of my time doing those why not make each one reward like 1000 ad this is like it is in sto episodes reward dilthium
this hasn't even went live and its already effecting the game
4.7 million worth of zen orders disappeared of the zax today isn't anyone even offering to buy zen at 500 anymore lol but they will never admit this is the reason there going to feed us some lie about the double rp event cleared out the backlog story
on another note if they want to make ad a time based currency then they need to put it were most casuals play like in the campiaign dailes I spend 90% of my time doing those why not make each one reward like 1000 ad this is like it is in sto episodes reward dilthium
Blacklog shrink happens every double refinement event. This is the main reason for this vent IMO
My story is truly a grand tale! Of course, any story about me is going to be grand simply by virtue of the main character.
This game hasn't been "Free 2 Play" since Mod 2. Once Dread Ring came out, the power creep came in and it became a race. I knew, as soon as Sharandar came out (and you people have it EASY now), the "grind fest" was upon us and what they were intending.
What pisses me off the most, is Tyranny of Dragons. When "Artifact Equipment" came around, that was the last time I blew money on the game. I wasted TONS of cash in the span of a month, buying HAMSTER to feed to a toon, they wholly nerfed, during "Rise of Tiamat" for their precious Oathbound Paladin. So, I switched to my TR alt.
And had to do the same HAMSTER over again.
Then, they decided we were "too powerful" (and who's fault was that, exactly?), so they went and nerfed all our gear and the HAMSTER started all over again. VIP is a "subscription." Call it whatever you want, but it's a subscription. PWE is a shady company. Pure and simple. I pity Cryptic for being under their umbrella. Atari never should have sold them. At least then, we KNEW it was pay 2 play.
So, no, "Perfect World", you're not getting another HAMSTER DIME from me and I don't give a HAMSTER if the mods delete this post.
I liquidated my Zens because I expect a crash on the market, like Scott said, the goal is to "fix" the economy ... since I don't see how this does anything to adjust the prices of rank 4s (except down as the bots likely become more focused on the enchants).
The removal of ADs from leadership seems to be precision targeted on moving the ZAX.
Lower AD:Zen rates could be very positive for the bots, re-sellers, and AD holders ... but seems like it would not help anyone who is transferring Zens into the game ... I do not understand how the market "fix" makes transferring Zens more appealing.
this hasn't even went live and its already effecting the game
4.7 million worth of zen orders disappeared of the zax today isn't anyone even offering to buy zen at 500 anymore lol but they will never admit this is the reason there going to feed us some lie about the double rp event cleared out the backlog story
on another note if they want to make ad a time based currency then they need to put it were most casuals play like in the campiaign dailes I spend 90% of my time doing those why not make each one reward like 1000 ad this is like it is in sto episodes reward dilthium
Blacklog shrink happens every double refinement event. This is the main reason for this vent IMO
this has nothing to do with the event people pulled there zen expecting things to change 4.6 million zen doesn't get filled in few hours event or no event clicking the cancel button does tho and everyone has done that I know I canceled all my orders
First, know that everything we say here is a circle jerk for our eyes only. No one who matters ever bothers to listen to a single community suggestion of any magnitude. That disclaimer aside, when my friends quit NW to play Final Fantasy, I didnt go because I didnt want to play another group grinder. Do X dungeon X times to get a token for gear requiring 100K tokens... bleh. I preferred praying to RNGeesus. Run the dungeon, maybe get the gear, at least get something good, roll on it, go herm happy. But now, its heading south. Instead of doing unique tasks in a variety of locations, you want me to run boring, cookie cutter dungeons and skirmishes. You took the teeth out of everything that made this game unique and entertaining. Foundry? Useless. Gateway? Broken. PVP? Lackluster and repetitive and likely to stay that way. Are the bots going to be annoyed with this change? For a minute, then they will just make a bot that runs dungeons, skirmishes and PVP. Oh wait... they do that already. Soooo this punishes those TOS abiding netizens that pay you to rust in the northwest rainshine. Bravo.
TLDR - Bots don't enjoy unique content, so make more of that and stop the downhill grind before it picks up more speed.
They could make a big daily quest that consisted of smaller random quests like doing x dungeon, x skirmish, x foundry quest, x profession activity, collect x node in x map and x sh quest ( for example 3 of that list and keep changing them everyday.) And have it reward a solid 30k ad but only once per account. That way we dont have the make the same quests everyday and it keeps things more varied.
But nothin really happend if they give possibility to buy lvl 60 equipment for 20 silver on woundrous bazar and slavage this for 1000 RAD. Check testing server.
Explain better how this is intended to hurt bots! Leadership literally takes months to level (level 23 after 220 days ... that's maybe 10 months for rank 25).
Is the argument that Cryptic can not reasonably identify suspected bot accounts within several months of account activity? If the bots are so simple as to log into leadership each day, aren't there already mechanisms in place to address those accounts.
I certainly do not feel it is easy to gear a single character even with current ADs from leadership! New artifact weapons again!? Seriously!?
What do I tell a new player ... "well, once you get to level 70, if there's enough people with BiS gear online in the guild and they'll run with you, then you can get maybe 20k-30k rAD a day, and in about 5-10 years you too can have BiS gear! ... or if you don't want to wait several years, maybe just pay a few thousand dollars for it! ... but buyer beware, it may be obsolete in the next 'update!'"
Leadership is not a panacea, even after explaining how the grind works, and that after a "long leadership grind" you will see, it is really F2P it just takes about a year, then you're set ... yeah, they *still* will not stay in the game
But nothin really happend if they give possibility to buy lvl 60 equipment for 20 silver on woundrous bazar and slavage this for 1000 RAD. Check testing server.
But nothin really happend if they give possibility to buy lvl 60 equipment for 20 silver on woundrous bazar and slavage this for 1000 RAD. Check testing server.
there was the elemental artifact equipment on Bazaar to help test with prior module ... it is likely still there ... but that is just the test server, it has not been [on the Bazaar] on the production server.
PS.
"Funny" to look back on it; There was so much aggro generated from the players by the release, there was [at least some] interest with testing, Mod 6 just didn't work for the players.
Ok.. going to TRY and put on my Dev Hat and think of this logically...
When priced in the AH went lower than the actually Zen Price for Coal Wards and such, they were changed to BoP. Understandable and acceptable. Profit must be made to progress the game.
Now we are seeing the same thing happen with Greater Mark of Potency and Marks of Potency costing less AD in the AH than the game designed them to in the Wondrous Bazaar. Ok.. a change is required. I can understand that and accept that a change must be made to protect the game economy. But you are not making a change in this case, you are basically CRASHING the economy by removing the ability to gain the In Game Currency in sufficient amounts to make the game progress work for the poor players that cannot(and yes, do not, but in MUCH smaller numbers I would say) want to spend real money.
Suggestion: Transfer of AD must go through a filter(not too hard to code on your end). If someone puts up a Dungeoneering Kit for 10 Million AD, the filter flags it, Grabs it, Puts it in a special container for review to make sure it is legit or if it is a Gold seller. We KNOW that there is nothing that is that available worth that much so this would be easy to do. It can easily be accomplished by adding a Rank to plentiful items and setting a maximum to what can and can't get by the filter.
Before anyone says then they will just set it to just below the filter value...Buying 1 million AD is one thing, requiring 100 clicks to claim it is a HUGE deterrent from people doing it. It also allows for further filtering to catch the people that actually have the volume of items up for suspicious prices so action can be taken against them as well.
Ok.. Taking off my Dev Hat now as my head is hurting now
WRONG! Bots will not vanish. Bots will still bot, this will DO NOTHING to stop or even really curb botting. Leadership is a very minor thing to bots because bots DONT EXIST LONG ENOUGH on average to even get to 20, much less 25, leadership. The vast minority ever get that far before being banned. Bots run content and they do leadership on the side. Again, this isn't about bots, it's about making us buy zen. Bots have nothing to do with this.
You can explain that over and over and over again, and you will still have people coming in here and saying, "But the Devs said..." and you can only reply, "Get into the [censored] game, and take a look around in Neverdeath Graveyard, or check out the new botter guilds, that are probably now farming the Stronghold maps." and those people will still not get it... just hopeless.
And yes, there are thousands much better ways for really dealing with botters, but that's still not the point here. The Devs or the Management doesn't want to deal with botters, they just want to force players into buying more ZEN. And they will continue their "work"... there isn't a single change "against" botters they have made this far, that actually hit the botters. In all the changes, only the normal players were hit harder and harder...
Now we are seeing the same thing happen with Greater Mark of Potency and Marks of Potency costing less AD in the AH than the game designed them to in the Wondrous Bazaar.
Nope, straight up design and purpose there, it is because there is a 25% discount on Bazaar items for 12 month VIP. Buying at 75k and selling at 84k nets a slight profit!
still ... if you currently need 121 GMoP ... probably better to buy the VIP!!
And there is the only reason for this change: Money.
The Management still doesn't get it, this might force a few players into spending some cash right now, but the majority of players will rather leave, then dump even more money into this pit. And at some point, even the loyal wallet warriors will pack their bags and move on, when they can't find any easy wins anymore.
They haven't even fixed some of the issues with dungeons like Epic Gray Wolf Den. When's the last time you saw anyone advertising for that dungeon? And the normal way to now finish Epic Cragmire Crypts is a BUG. A BUG. When I get to the end of eCC and someone says, "How do we want to do this?" and they respond, "The normal way, bug it" - how jacked up is that?
(yada yada)
I agree with all of that, but I just wanted to add my two cents to that part. The main reason players do that is that simply...there is NO other way for a pug group under 3k to kill that boss. If battles were balanced, required some tactics, and had some fun variations, you'd see everyone just going for the "legit" way and only use the exploit in a desperate measure (i.e. healer has crashed or had to leave)
Instead...all bosses are the same. Crapload of HP which means you have to dodge the same pattern over and over and over and a single mistake costs you the run. All bosses require the same tactics: spam all debuffs and keep attacking it over and over and over. Use your daily or artifact when they pop up. And the "variations" are nothing more than gimmicks. The eTOS boss is just the same of the regular TOS boss except for the jacked stats and the fact you have to stand in front of two (stationary) summons. eCC boss is the same with jacked up stats and you having to break the water barrel every now and then.
The point is...devs just gave up. Since dragons arrived, every other boss has been a dragon with basically no changes to its pattern except having twice the HP of the dragon that came before that. And even if it's not a dragon, they just carbon-copy a boss (or even a regular mob) and add some zeroes to its damage and HP. If that isn't laziness, I don't know what else it can be.
By the numbers! The reason I think they are removing ad from leadership!
To go from nothing to BiS for a rogue! [...] Total is 89 107 390 AD not including the upgrade stuff like greater marks other than gmop. Lets assume a rate of 500 ad to 1 zen. Cost is $1 782+ US dollars! Through converting zen to ad and using the AH. Prices can vary! Cost of RP through the AH from zen is $919. The gear is $863. [...] While the numbers are not perfect they are damn close! This is for 1 toon!
First. Nice calculation.
Players want 90kk AD . No problem !!! They can earn up to 16k AD each day by simply playing 2 dungeons, 2 skirmish and 2 pvp. Another 2k by invoking 6 times a day. This means they are BiS after 5k days. Means around 14 years. Rounded this up... maybe they are away from PC a few days. $1782 means $0,36 a day. You can buy a month for $10. Everything is fine with Neverwinter
And I thought the economy was finally balancing out...
Here are my major concerns:
Strongholds: As mentioned already, This is a huge AD sink. Whats the plan now? Guilds that started their SH in "the hay day" will be so far ahead small and new guilds will have no chance. I love supporting my guild to get anywhere we would be dinating 100% of income for the forseable future. This does not strike me or my wife as fun.
Transmutes: 50k AD is already farting over the top if this goes throug all characters will look roughly the same. I already balk for months on a transmute making 40k a day between leadership and reward quests. There is no way in hell im spending 50k to change the look of my characters when making 10-20k a day. Its just not worth it when RP is the real focus.
Wounerous Bizzar items: The prices are already to high. As it is I have to grind for a week on one character for an augmentation cube.
Alts: This game will be even more alt unfriendly... Over half of my leadership and quest AD was spent on upgrading each one of my characters (one of each class), now i feel that i just need to abandon them
more feelings will come out as i read more comments but these were the first that came to mind.
Ara Atheanes GWF
Traxus Atheanes GF
Bastiel Atheanes DC
Ellara Atheanes CW
Keira Atheanes TR
Sarasin Atheanes SW
Jerkface McGee HR
-MANTARA- OP
If anyone cannot see that this is another deliberate attempt to wring yet more money out of the playerbase, then they need to step back and take a reality check.
This company has grown more an more mercenary over recent times.
Gone are the days of in depth content. Gone are the days of innovation. What we have left is a team woefully undermanned and under-skilled to effectively maintain and grow the game. Before, we had a range of dungeons, of new content that was not simply rehashed earlier zones.
Now? A shambles of decision making. Things weren't perfect before, but Mod 6 really showed the lack of fundamental mmo design experience that is now in place.
Exciting new content would bring in it's own revenue stream as players progressed. It encouraged the desire to improve your characters.
Now those development skills have been lost - but their commercial targets are still there - so with the lack of enticing content how do they meet these? ......The answers are right in front of the players.
More and more mercenary decisions, with paper thin reasoning to cover these.
Leadership bots? Just what? Go into areas and you will see bots farming content. They are not standing there with their arms pointed to the heavens, they are in mob spawn areas - in groups - they are not that hard to miss.
So what now - and importantly - what is the next money bleeding decision that will be thinly disguised?
Well Cryptic, you can make all the cash grab decisions you want - you've got nothing from me since Mod 6. GW2 HoT is purchased, so that' it,
Sadly - for i did enjoy the game a way back - your recent decision making has ruined this.
Hang your heads in shame.
...............vote for your favourite expansion.......... "Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity". ..............not this one then.............
Time to dust off the PS4, I'll come by to talk to the guildies, maybe do a couple elols to help newer 70's. I hate that i'm losing my Leadership army, but that I can get over... over time... but then severely capping our AD gain in other areas. I'm sure something will be done at some point to lower costs of gmops ect, but there is no mention of it. Its just another half-finished change or update to the game. The economy will eventually work itself out, right? I logged into preview tonight to take a look at what you guys have done to the game I've loved since beta. I felt sick. I felt loss. I felt wronged... from a video game... My video game, that I've played for so long. How can a stupid game make someone feel like this? It was love of the game. After all the bad choices, and all the bad releases, content removed, half finished maps, Why does every elemental evil location have a tower, that we cant even enter? Why after 2 years can a boss still be glitched? Why hasn't anything been done to fix the SW Temptation path? or an AP OP breaking the game. Why are you trying to bring out New (unfinished) content every 3-4 months?
I think I've finally hit my limit. I'm tired of the same 3 dungeons. I'm heart broken.
Please leave the dailies the way they are, bots will just shift target and go after RP. OR people buying from those sights will just buy items instead of AD, then just sell it in the AH... Your only hurting us, and your giving a big middle finger to solo players. Add insulted to my list of what I've felt.
Obviously Cryptic doesn't care about feedback or they wouldn't already have this on preview and ready to go live next week. This thread is just a place to let people gnash their teeth but in the end impacts nothing. It's been this way for two years now. The only way to make your voice heard is to not spend your money on buying zen. Oh and don't forget to send your feedback to Hasbro and Wizards of the Coast about how Neverwinter is tarnishing their brand.
Take it up with their superiors... if that is even a reality. Lord knows I would hand write ten pages and mail it first class to the ceo of Hasbro if I thought it could save my beloved Neverwinter characters...
Just before Mod 6 I was really excited at the prospect of catching up to those crazy beta folk... I had been playing since 6month past going live and had sunk some serious cash into catching up to them. Now? Not a chance... I just got my favorite 3 or 4 alts their main hand from Elemental Evil and geared them with the new Alliance gear and r8 -r9 .... took them to IWD and they still fight like they are made of paper. My only hope was that my investment in Leadership would help me finally turn those enchants to r10 or r11 (god forbid 12?!) But with leadership gone... I will never have a rank 12 enchant. That makes me sooo upset, after all the time and money I invested.. and to be so close!!!!! I don't think I can forgive this one and just keep playing.
This will only work if prices are dropped across the board. Make it so i can play an hour a day, and still be able to get a GMOP at the end of the week. Make it so if i play for hours, say 4-5 a day, i can get more out of my time. I would totally buy zen, if zen was worth a lot more than it is. As it is now, if i want to buy a rank 9 enchant i have to pay like 20 bucks for just 1, and you need 10, and rank 9s are not as good as 12s. Make it so blood rubies give more than 50k rp. For 10 bucks i want to rank up a artifact to the next rank. We are talking hundreds of dollars for basic stuff. Nobody wants to spend that much on a game that lags at every new update, disconnects you, and is lacking content. 2 maps for domination, only 2 since the start of the game, not cool. So yes, taking away ad in leadership may be the right choice but you cant just do that. Replace ad with rp, and i would be happy. Make things cheaper, and get rid of this grind for good stuff. I want to play for my enchantments, not grind. Make zen worth more, and i will buy more.
At this point, if they would give something about "our" feedback, there would have been changes to the preview server by now... or at least some updat in here. But nothing this far... or in other words, they're still ignoring all the player feedback as usual.
Well, good luck with ignoring the noticeable dropping player numbers beginning next week...
As already stated, this is a hastily and badly conceived money grab. Congratulations Cryptic, it would be more honest if you just levelled a gun at me through the screen and demanded my account details.
What is badly lacking from this (apart from competent management and communication) is a roadmap that tells us what the other changes that should be made in order for this to work. Like AD rewards on quests that are NOT dungeons/skirmish/PvP because *NEWSFLASH* not everybody plays those. Foundry, events etc. This would reward play in all areas, not just 3 that you consider are "playing the game".
This is truly simple - if you have a massive change like this, you should have an alternative already planned and tested BEFORE you implement. If not, people will leave because not everyone reads the forums and news items get buried fast.
It's taken me a while to summarize my feeling about this change. I've tried not to make a knee jerk reaction on the basis of emotions, as emotive as the subject is.
Taking your motivations at face value, I get what you're trying to do. Moving AD to a "time spent" reward is fine, and yes it may do away with imbalance with the AD economy. It may even remove bots.....before they find some other avenue to exploit. ..and fine, income from leadership is going to be seriously cut if not removed entirely. I could cope with that.
However, your changes are incomplete and insufficient when it comes to reward for the genuine player. Bear in mind the economy is not going to re-balance over night.
The rewards that you are placing on dungeons/skirmishes etc are just not good enough in the presence of the AD sinks that remain in the game. The sheer amount of AD required for leveling the stronghold is alone is going to become a Sisyphus level challenge and will feel as such.
One of my fellow guildies made this suggestion with a reply from Panderous:
Is it possible for Leadership tasks to get AD Coffers for Strongholds to replace actual AD? The Strongholds AD requirements were fine when Leadership produced AD, now they are overwhelming in their requirements given that you have largely removed access to AD for many players. This would also make the time we invested in levelling Leadership valuable for those of us who did so.
That is an interesting suggestion, I will forward it along.
Why the hell are you not thinking of these things before introducing such a radical change? The change is going to upset people, that is inevitable. But you've done nothing meaningful to mitigate the amount of collateral damage incurred by your genuine players.
Your fixed price items from the W/Bazaar are going to comparably be even more expensive, not that they weren't excessive anyway.
Daily Quests & Hourly Events On top of that, though we were expecting players to use the Foundry daily to get AD, we found the vast majority weren't doing so at all.
You haven't invested anything into the foundry, of course it's going to be underutilized!
We believe that simply playing content should get you your time currency, so we removed the daily quests and made things automatic. Now, simply play Dungeons, Skirmishes, and PvP, and you’ll receive significant bonus AD for completing the first 2 runs of each.
There are earn rate maximums per day (to make sure things stay balanced), but because you can now get bonus AD regardless of what time of day you're able to log in, we expect most players will significantly increase their earn rate.
Inigo Montoya said: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means".
also, given how M6 atrophied the player base, focusing earning times means better and more reliable queues. I'm not convinced your player base is sufficiently large enough anymore for this strategy
Leadership, while no longer a major source of AD, is still a good source for XP, Gold, and loot items. All of these things are valuable to regular players, but less so to botters. That value is incredibly subjective! Future Changes Beyond addressing the group content listed above, and the botting issue of Leadership, we are also looking at ways for the solo player to earn this time currency. We are evaluating content like Heroic Encounters and Campaigns as likely places to make adjustments, while watching the above changes to make sure they're having the desired effect on group play.
We believe we can make the Astral Diamond economy much more stable and uniform for all players. Want to earn AD? Play Dungeons, Skirmishes, and PvP whenever you have time!Check back soon for more information on future additional AD sources.
Scott, this assessment and looking for additional sources should have occured before the change is rolled out. There should already be a plan to go out with this release. It feels that the genuine players are a secondary thought
Scott Shicoff Lead Designer
To think that you'll halt the change would be naive, but I would implore you to consider very carefully how you manage this. You've made what feel like token changes to cushion the blow for AD earning given that your fixed prices remain excessive. This needs to be resolved Before you roll this out. Players still need to feel rewarded and have reasonable prospects for progressing their characters. Unless you add in decent avenues to achieve this at the same time, more ppl will just walk. No new module will entice them back if they believe that you don't value them
By the numbers! The reason I think they are removing ad from leadership!
To go from nothing to BiS for a rogue!
2 x 270 000 Gemmed exquisite Adamant ring of recovery to turn into Personalized. 540 000 1 x 244 900 gemmed exquisite elemental tunic 244 900 1 x 244 900 gemmed exquisite elemental trouser 244 900 5 x 2 799 998 rank 12 Dark enchantments 13 999 990 6 x 3 696 000 rank 12 Savage enchantments 22 176 000 7 x 3 914 000 rank 12 Cruel enchantments 27 398 000 1 x 97 000 Lostmauth's hoard necklace 97 000 1 x 38 900 Golden belt of puissance 38 900 1 x 1 400 000 Lostmauth's Horn of blasting 3 x 0 free artifacts
Now to get all artifacts to max level it requires 60 459 340 refining points. 18 580 800 for artifact equipment. 41 878 540 for artifacts. Rank 4 enchants are the cheapest way to go for artifacts and i was buying them before this weekend at a rate of 1800 for 99. rank 4 give 13 365 per stack. Assuming you get 10% bonus for crit i will up that too 14 701 rp per stack. To upgrade the 4 artifact equipment you need to use resonance stones the green and white are roughly the same ad/rp. I looked at minor resonance stones 1 for 1100 ad for 500 rp. 1 stack 49 500 rp.
2 849 stacks of rank 4 enchantments 5 128 200. 375 stacks of minor resonance stones 40 837 500
44 gmops to upgrade artifacts 4 400 000
This does not include the less items or the greater stuff needed to upgrade This prices are inflated right because of double refinement weekend.
Total is 89 107 390 AD not including the upgrade stuff like greater marks other than gmop. Lets assume a rate of 500 ad to 1 zen.
Cost is $1 782+ US dollars! Through converting zen to ad and using the AH. Prices can vary! Cost of RP through the AH from zen is $919. The gear is $863.
Cost of the rp through the zen shop requires 403 blood ruby packs to do all artifacts and artifacts equipment. That is $8060! if you include the gear that is a whopping $8923 using the zen shop instead of converting it all to AD and using AH.
This is just basic stuff and does not include companions and their enchants! missing greater marks of unions etc as well nor does it include optimal artifacts which can cost 2-10 million AD.
While the numbers are not perfect they are damn close! This is for 1 toon!
Obviously Cryptic doesn't care about feedback or they wouldn't already have this on preview and ready to go live next week. This thread is just a place to let people gnash their teeth but in the end impacts nothing. It's been this way for two years now. The only way to make your voice heard is to not spend your money on buying zen. Oh and don't forget to send your feedback to Hasbro and Wizards of the Coast about how Neverwinter is tarnishing their brand.
Take it up with their superiors... if that is even a reality. Lord knows I would hand write ten pages and mail it first class to the ceo of Hasbro if I thought it could save my beloved Neverwinter characters...
Mate, don't want to make you or anybody feel sad, but i got lots of friends working in the book industry and i know few people from over Wizards and Hasbro.
Two things: 1. They know all about this ongoing process since long. 2. They don't care at all. In current state the license holders are in win-win situation, only loser will be us. If we bow and pay, they win, if game loses players and license goes down the gully, they win also... 3. Many would be surprised to see, how "old" and "highly educated" folks are playing with the rights over there. Hasbro for itself has over 350+ licenses in their wallet, do you think they care for 1 at all. I bet the majority of the above mentioned company CEOs couldn't even list you, what they sell at all.
Sad FACT, our reality. I only thank God, that i am so old, i saw the better days of IT industry and had the chance to play real fun games. Future is darker, than the dark side of the Moon. Long gone are the days of enthusiastic pioneers with a bright vision for any game.
The real honest man is honest from conviction of what is right, not from policy.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
READ MY LIPS BOYS...."No More Money from Me ever again."
I'm a business professional that loves video games and I'm the kind of demographic they are trying to appeal to. I'm done, I'm a Leader of over 130 member guild and friends with a whole lot more that still play today.
My advice to everyone is the same; play the game if you like...but DO NOT PAY any money for advancement. I would rather give them a chunk of what I still have then give to these babbling buffoons.
After thinking about this for a couple days and taking everyone's opinion to date along with the actions of this company over time; I'm done. And just when I thought it was getting better. Yet I warned everyone that this Stronghold Mod smelled of one massive resource Sink.
Thankfully our guild is not of Whales and we work/grind for everything; so I'm proud for the fact that GH5 just went up. But now I have to give my friends a State of the Union address and it's not going to be pretty. But I would rather give the truth then to pretend and take my friends hard earned resources for potential gear that will be obsolete anyway.
My advise for you Cryptic is very simple; you're in a corner now and face player base Genocide. You must come out with either a well thought out plan for us moving forward or give us our AD back. You have really one chance with the truth or I myself will go on a crusade against you(that includes writing letters to the CEO of Wizards of the Coast and any D&D licensing companies that you must answer to. I'll even write to Bob Salvatore if that will put a sting in your side knowing he helped with the game)
For the sake of the game I wish you luck.
Co-Leader Valindra's Deathgods and player since Mod3.
Comments
That being said, these changes are HORRIBLE. Now I'm being forced to play content that I don't want to play to get currency that's REQUIRED for upgrades. And did they forget that 60-69 can't even do skirmishes because of another one of their needless changes? So until I hit 70 (an awful grind in and of itself), one method of earning diamonds isn't even available to me. I'm stuck with dungeons, which are boring because there are so few now and PvP, which I absolutely detest.
I don't believe these changes are even going to stop the bots, but then again I don't think that's why they are doing this. It's obviously got to do with money. Less diamonds means more people might pony up real dough to get what they need. I've spent a bit of money on the game myself, but this move ensures that I will not spend anymore - if I even continue playing.
Badly done all around.
We need constant routine feedback from the Devs on this in order to reassure the community that this is being very careful and "on the ball" with updating the Wondrous Bizarre and other AD sinks that will shortly become insurmountable to the average player. The players will leave if they perceive the GMoPs as requiring 1 week of running the same dungeon 24/7. Forget about anyone progressing their Strongholds.
Some changes would be extremely useful to reassuring the player base.
1. A rapid reassessment of AD sinks. I suspect that the Devs have a specific AD threshold in mind before doing this, but the players need to see a light at end of the tunnel rather than a road out of service sign.
2. Reducing the cost in materials for refinement (ie no more 5x GMoP + x# of equally leveled enchants + x# additional Greater Marks)
3. A total rework of many professions, not just Leadership. (Currently the only useful professions are Alchemy, Jewelcrafting, Black Ice, and the armor skills, and their level 25 buffs all have 100k AD sinks built in. Weaponsmithing and Artificing are completely useless and Leadership is getting hammered into the ground) Adding RP, possibly BtA, to all professions would be something to consider. Craftable transmutes would also be well received. Redirecting Leadership rewards to SH materials seems like a no brainer.
4. Bring back all the closed dungeons. The dungeons currently available are so limited that grinding them for AD is just mind numbing. Why not place RP, wards, and greater marks as the chest & boss rewards instead of a brand new 145 gear? This would limit power creep and expand player options. I seriously doubt Bots will be able to grind a buffed up Castle Never any time soon.
5. A total reassessment of the SH currency requirements and HE rewards. Why expect players to sacrifice potential AD earning time as well as millions of RP and refined AD?
6. Bring the Foundry back online with actual rewards for mission completion. (again BtA RP, wards, marks and transmutes would limit bots and reward players while providing OPTIONS)
7. Create AD rewards for solo players, immediately. Dungeons/PvP/Skirmishes do not draw casual players.
8. Change all BoP items to BoA. This will keep our alts viable and address the AD to alt concerns.
4.7 million worth of zen orders disappeared of the zax today isn't anyone even offering to buy zen at 500 anymore lol but they will never admit this is the reason there going to feed us some lie about the double rp event cleared out the backlog story
on another note if they want to make ad a time based currency then they need to put it were most casuals play like in the campiaign dailes I spend 90% of my time doing those why not make each one reward like 1000 ad this is like it is in sto episodes reward dilthium
NW-DHNVMMGVJ Dragons horde part one.
http://youtu.be/0KbqTWeJqxc
This game hasn't been "Free 2 Play" since Mod 2. Once Dread Ring came out, the power creep came in and it became a race. I knew, as soon as Sharandar came out (and you people have it EASY now), the "grind fest" was upon us and what they were intending.
What pisses me off the most, is Tyranny of Dragons. When "Artifact Equipment" came around, that was the last time I blew money on the game. I wasted TONS of cash in the span of a month, buying HAMSTER to feed to a toon, they wholly nerfed, during "Rise of Tiamat" for their precious Oathbound Paladin. So, I switched to my TR alt.
And had to do the same HAMSTER over again.
Then, they decided we were "too powerful" (and who's fault was that, exactly?), so they went and nerfed all our gear and the HAMSTER started all over again. VIP is a "subscription." Call it whatever you want, but it's a subscription. PWE is a shady company. Pure and simple. I pity Cryptic for being under their umbrella. Atari never should have sold them. At least then, we KNEW it was pay 2 play.
So, no, "Perfect World", you're not getting another HAMSTER DIME from me and I don't give a HAMSTER if the mods delete this post.
The removal of ADs from leadership seems to be precision targeted on moving the ZAX.
Lower AD:Zen rates could be very positive for the bots, re-sellers, and AD holders ... but seems like it would not help anyone who is transferring Zens into the game ... I do not understand how the market "fix" makes transferring Zens more appealing.
NW-DHNVMMGVJ Dragons horde part one.
http://youtu.be/0KbqTWeJqxc
TLDR - Bots don't enjoy unique content, so make more of that and stop the downhill grind before it picks up more speed.
That way we dont have the make the same quests everyday and it keeps things more varied.
Leadership literally takes months to level (level 23 after 220 days ... that's maybe 10 months for rank 25).
Is the argument that Cryptic can not reasonably identify suspected bot accounts within several months of account activity? If the bots are so simple as to log into leadership each day, aren't there already mechanisms in place to address those accounts.
I certainly do not feel it is easy to gear a single character even with current ADs from leadership!
New artifact weapons again!? Seriously!?
What do I tell a new player ... "well, once you get to level 70, if there's enough people with BiS gear online in the guild and they'll run with you, then you can get maybe 20k-30k rAD a day, and in about 5-10 years you too can have BiS gear! ... or if you don't want to wait several years, maybe just pay a few thousand dollars for it! ... but buyer beware, it may be obsolete in the next 'update!'"
Leadership is not a panacea, even after explaining how the grind works, and that after a "long leadership grind" you will see, it is really F2P it just takes about a year, then you're set ... yeah, they *still* will not stay in the game
Now what?
PS.
"Funny" to look back on it; There was so much aggro generated from the players by the release, there was [at least some] interest with testing, Mod 6 just didn't work for the players.
When priced in the AH went lower than the actually Zen Price for Coal Wards and such, they were changed to BoP. Understandable and acceptable. Profit must be made to progress the game.
Now we are seeing the same thing happen with Greater Mark of Potency and Marks of Potency costing less AD in the AH than the game designed them to in the Wondrous Bazaar. Ok.. a change is required. I can understand that and accept that a change must be made to protect the game economy. But you are not making a change in this case, you are basically CRASHING the economy by removing the ability to gain the In Game Currency in sufficient amounts to make the game progress work for the poor players that cannot(and yes, do not, but in MUCH smaller numbers I would say) want to spend real money.
Suggestion: Transfer of AD must go through a filter(not too hard to code on your end). If someone puts up a Dungeoneering Kit for 10 Million AD, the filter flags it, Grabs it, Puts it in a special container for review to make sure it is legit or if it is a Gold seller. We KNOW that there is nothing that is that available worth that much so this would be easy to do. It can easily be accomplished by adding a Rank to plentiful items and setting a maximum to what can and can't get by the filter.
Before anyone says then they will just set it to just below the filter value...Buying 1 million AD is one thing, requiring 100 clicks to claim it is a HUGE deterrent from people doing it. It also allows for further filtering to catch the people that actually have the volume of items up for suspicious prices so action can be taken against them as well.
Ok.. Taking off my Dev Hat now as my head is hurting now
"But the Devs said..."
and you can only reply,
"Get into the [censored] game, and take a look around in Neverdeath Graveyard, or check out the new botter guilds, that are probably now farming the Stronghold maps."
and those people will still not get it... just hopeless.
And yes, there are thousands much better ways for really dealing with botters, but that's still not the point here. The Devs or the Management doesn't want to deal with botters, they just want to force players into buying more ZEN.
And they will continue their "work"... there isn't a single change "against" botters they have made this far, that actually hit the botters.
In all the changes, only the normal players were hit harder and harder...
Buying at 75k and selling at 84k nets a slight profit!
still ... if you currently need 121 GMoP ... probably better to buy the VIP!!
Money.
The Management still doesn't get it, this might force a few players into spending some cash right now, but the majority of players will rather leave, then dump even more money into this pit.
And at some point, even the loyal wallet warriors will pack their bags and move on, when they can't find any easy wins anymore.
Why is that so hard to understand?
I agree with all of that, but I just wanted to add my two cents to that part. The main reason players do that is that simply...there is NO other way for a pug group under 3k to kill that boss. If battles were balanced, required some tactics, and had some fun variations, you'd see everyone just going for the "legit" way and only use the exploit in a desperate measure (i.e. healer has crashed or had to leave)
Instead...all bosses are the same. Crapload of HP which means you have to dodge the same pattern over and over and over and a single mistake costs you the run.
All bosses require the same tactics: spam all debuffs and keep attacking it over and over and over. Use your daily or artifact when they pop up.
And the "variations" are nothing more than gimmicks. The eTOS boss is just the same of the regular TOS boss except for the jacked stats and the fact you have to stand in front of two (stationary) summons. eCC boss is the same with jacked up stats and you having to break the water barrel every now and then.
The point is...devs just gave up. Since dragons arrived, every other boss has been a dragon with basically no changes to its pattern except having twice the HP of the dragon that came before that. And even if it's not a dragon, they just carbon-copy a boss (or even a regular mob) and add some zeroes to its damage and HP. If that isn't laziness, I don't know what else it can be.
No problem !!!
They can earn up to 16k AD each day by simply playing 2 dungeons, 2 skirmish and 2 pvp.
Another 2k by invoking 6 times a day.
This means they are BiS after 5k days.
Means around 14 years. Rounded this up... maybe they are away from PC a few days.
$1782 means $0,36 a day.
You can buy a month for $10.
Everything is fine with Neverwinter
;-)
//Bellistor
Here are my major concerns:
Strongholds: As mentioned already, This is a huge AD sink. Whats the plan now? Guilds that started their SH in "the hay day" will be so far ahead small and new guilds will have no chance. I love supporting my guild to get anywhere we would be dinating 100% of income for the forseable future. This does not strike me or my wife as fun.
Transmutes: 50k AD is already farting over the top if this goes throug all characters will look roughly the same. I already balk for months on a transmute making 40k a day between leadership and reward quests. There is no way in hell im spending 50k to change the look of my characters when making 10-20k a day. Its just not worth it when RP is the real focus.
Wounerous Bizzar items: The prices are already to high. As it is I have to grind for a week on one character for an augmentation cube.
Alts: This game will be even more alt unfriendly... Over half of my leadership and quest AD was spent on upgrading each one of my characters (one of each class), now i feel that i just need to abandon them
more feelings will come out as i read more comments but these were the first that came to mind.
Traxus Atheanes GF
Bastiel Atheanes DC
Ellara Atheanes CW
Keira Atheanes TR
Sarasin Atheanes SW
Jerkface McGee HR
-MANTARA- OP
This company has grown more an more mercenary over recent times.
Gone are the days of in depth content. Gone are the days of innovation.
What we have left is a team woefully undermanned and under-skilled to effectively maintain and grow the game.
Before, we had a range of dungeons, of new content that was not simply rehashed earlier zones.
Now? A shambles of decision making. Things weren't perfect before, but Mod 6 really showed the lack of fundamental mmo design experience that is now in place.
Exciting new content would bring in it's own revenue stream as players progressed. It encouraged the desire to improve your characters.
Now those development skills have been lost - but their commercial targets are still there - so with the lack of enticing content how do they meet these? ......The answers are right in front of the players.
More and more mercenary decisions, with paper thin reasoning to cover these.
Leadership bots? Just what? Go into areas and you will see bots farming content. They are not standing there with their arms pointed to the heavens, they are in mob spawn areas - in groups - they are not that hard to miss.
So what now - and importantly - what is the next money bleeding decision that will be thinly disguised?
Well Cryptic, you can make all the cash grab decisions you want - you've got nothing from me since Mod 6.
GW2 HoT is purchased, so that' it,
Sadly - for i did enjoy the game a way back - your recent decision making has ruined this.
Hang your heads in shame.
"Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity".
..............not this one then.............
I hate that i'm losing my Leadership army, but that I can get over... over time... but then severely capping our AD gain in other areas. I'm sure something will be done at some point to lower costs of gmops ect, but there is no mention of it. Its just another half-finished change or update to the game. The economy will eventually work itself out, right? I logged into preview tonight to take a look at what you guys have done to the game I've loved since beta. I felt sick. I felt loss. I felt wronged... from a video game... My video game, that I've played for so long. How can a stupid game make someone feel like this? It was love of the game. After all the bad choices, and all the bad releases, content removed, half finished maps, Why does every elemental evil location have a tower, that we cant even enter? Why after 2 years can a boss still be glitched? Why hasn't anything been done to fix the SW Temptation path? or an AP OP breaking the game. Why are you trying to bring out New (unfinished) content every 3-4 months?
I think I've finally hit my limit.
I'm tired of the same 3 dungeons.
I'm heart broken.
Please leave the dailies the way they are, bots will just shift target and go after RP. OR people buying from those sights will just buy items instead of AD, then just sell it in the AH... Your only hurting us, and your giving a big middle finger to solo players. Add insulted to my list of what I've felt.
GG
I think that this is the best idea. Take it up with their superiors... if that is even a reality. Lord knows I would hand write ten pages and mail it first class to the ceo of Hasbro if I thought it could save my beloved Neverwinter characters...
Just before Mod 6 I was really excited at the prospect of catching up to those crazy beta folk... I had been playing since 6month past going live and had sunk some serious cash into catching up to them.
Now? Not a chance... I just got my favorite 3 or 4 alts their main hand from Elemental Evil and geared them with the new Alliance gear and r8 -r9 .... took them to IWD and they still fight like they are made of paper. My only hope was that my investment in Leadership would help me finally turn those enchants to r10 or r11 (god forbid 12?!) But with leadership gone... I will never have a rank 12 enchant. That makes me sooo upset, after all the time and money I invested.. and to be so close!!!!! I don't think I can forgive this one and just keep playing.
But nothing this far... or in other words, they're still ignoring all the player feedback as usual.
Well, good luck with ignoring the noticeable dropping player numbers beginning next week...
What is badly lacking from this (apart from competent management and communication) is a roadmap that tells us what the other changes that should be made in order for this to work. Like AD rewards on quests that are NOT dungeons/skirmish/PvP because *NEWSFLASH* not everybody plays those. Foundry, events etc. This would reward play in all areas, not just 3 that you consider are "playing the game".
This is truly simple - if you have a massive change like this, you should have an alternative already planned and tested BEFORE you implement. If not, people will leave because not everyone reads the forums and news items get buried fast.
Taking your motivations at face value, I get what you're trying to do.
Moving AD to a "time spent" reward is fine, and yes it may do away with imbalance with the AD economy. It may even remove bots.....before they find some other avenue to exploit.
..and fine, income from leadership is going to be seriously cut if not removed entirely. I could cope with that.
However, your changes are incomplete and insufficient when it comes to reward for the genuine player. Bear in mind the economy is not going to re-balance over night.
The rewards that you are placing on dungeons/skirmishes etc are just not good enough in the presence of the AD sinks that remain in the game. The sheer amount of AD required for leveling the stronghold is alone is going to become a Sisyphus level challenge and will feel as such.
One of my fellow guildies made this suggestion with a reply from Panderous: Why the hell are you not thinking of these things before introducing such a radical change? The change is going to upset people, that is inevitable. But you've done nothing meaningful to mitigate the amount of collateral damage incurred by your genuine players.
Your fixed price items from the W/Bazaar are going to comparably be even more expensive, not that they weren't excessive anyway. To think that you'll halt the change would be naive, but I would implore you to consider very carefully how you manage this. You've made what feel like token changes to cushion the blow for AD earning given that your fixed prices remain excessive. This needs to be resolved Before you roll this out.
Players still need to feel rewarded and have reasonable prospects for progressing their characters. Unless you add in decent avenues to achieve this at the same time, more ppl will just walk. No new module will entice them back if they believe that you don't value them
Must take account that even with 20 million AD you get quite good gear for Pve, not much fun with it but survive.
Calculation is good.
Looks like we all became "FroumWarriors",
Two things: 1. They know all about this ongoing process since long. 2. They don't care at all. In current state the license holders are in win-win situation, only loser will be us. If we bow and pay, they win, if game loses players and license goes down the gully, they win also... 3. Many would be surprised to see, how "old" and "highly educated" folks are playing with the rights over there. Hasbro for itself has over 350+ licenses in their wallet, do you think they care for 1 at all. I bet the majority of the above mentioned company CEOs couldn't even list you, what they sell at all.
Sad FACT, our reality. I only thank God, that i am so old, i saw the better days of IT industry and had the chance to play real fun games. Future is darker, than the dark side of the Moon. Long gone are the days of enthusiastic pioneers with a bright vision for any game.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
I'm a business professional that loves video games and I'm the kind of demographic they are trying to appeal to. I'm done, I'm a Leader of over 130 member guild and friends with a whole lot more that still play today.
My advice to everyone is the same; play the game if you like...but DO NOT PAY any money for advancement. I would rather give them a chunk of what I still have then give to these babbling buffoons.
After thinking about this for a couple days and taking everyone's opinion to date along with the actions of this company over time; I'm done. And just when I thought it was getting better. Yet I warned everyone that this Stronghold Mod smelled of one massive resource Sink.
Thankfully our guild is not of Whales and we work/grind for everything; so I'm proud for the fact that GH5 just went up. But now I have to give my friends a State of the Union address and it's not going to be pretty. But I would rather give the truth then to pretend and take my friends hard earned resources for potential gear that will be obsolete anyway.
My advise for you Cryptic is very simple; you're in a corner now and face player base Genocide. You must come out with either a well thought out plan for us moving forward or give us our AD back. You have really one chance with the truth or I myself will go on a crusade against you(that includes writing letters to the CEO of Wizards of the Coast and any D&D licensing companies that you must answer to. I'll even write to Bob Salvatore if that will put a sting in your side knowing he helped with the game)
For the sake of the game I wish you luck.
Co-Leader Valindra's Deathgods and player since Mod3.