I'm just a PvE player, that catch all my AD form AH/salvage. It's not much, but i achieved Rank 7/8 in my main, and puple artefacts. All that i catch now, go to AH (cuz upgrade something to legendary t is absurdly expensive, in AD and time).
What most hurt me was, after mod6, no more drops from 'dungeons' (3/6 of them T~T). This Leadership changes really dont gonna hurt me directly, cuz i dont have patience to spend my time in this profession, but reading all these reviews make me feel like a alien in this game (and for the people that REALLY BELIVE they need 3k+iLvL to make eCC in the legit way. Really?).
What do I really like to see? MANY progress BTA (Sharandar, DR, Icewind, Profession and refinement rAD>AD. Stronghold is from guilds, so, it's not 'your only progression'). Until mod6 was easy, im one weekend, cap the rAD Refinement for all the week, cuz you have drops in dungeons, you have something that really give to you rAD, and something to sell in AH. For me, this is the 'right' way to make money in this game. Now, you just have... drops in t1 for AH, and 2(4?) gears (exclude ST Gear). No buffs in gears, no difference, """no builds"""... I was very simplistic, but that's how the game looks, compared to what it was.
But i'm just a alien. Let the Rage of the Leadership Army continue!
By the numbers part 2. With new changes the time and cost to upgrade a single enchant to rank 12.
TLDR: Most of the cost to rank enchants are fixed. Using AH where applicable it would take a player 77.9 days to rank up to a rank 12 enchant. Using bazaar with VIP it would take 99.27 days to rank up a rank 5 to a rank 12 enchant. Using bazaar no ViP it would take 128.5 days to rank up a rank 5 to a rank 12 in the new proposed system!
I am going to do this based on a player farming 32 rank 5 which at 70 is very easy to do! Yes folks it takes 32 I am using rank 4 enchants of the same type to get the 2 x bonus in my calculations at a price of 1 800 ad per stack! Reminder if bots leave the game you will be unable to purchase cheap rank 4s or mops. I assumed free preservation wards from praying!
Step 1: 32 (rank 5) enchants to 16 (rank 6)
3 240 rp x 16 = 51480 RP 51480 RP / 26370 = 1.95 stacks 1.95 stacks x 1800 rp = 3 513 ad 16 MoP x 2727 (ah price) = 43 636 ad or 16 Mop x 18 750 ad (bazaar vip 12) = 300 000 ad or 16 mop x 25 000 ad (bazaar) =400 000 ad Total AD using AH = 43 636 ad + 3 513 ad = 47 149 ad Total AD using Bazaar (vip 12) = 300 000 ad + 3 513 ad = 303 513 ad Total AD using Bazaar (no vip) = 400 000 ad + 3 513 ad = 403 513 ad AH = 47 149 ad / 24 000 ad = 1.96 days Vip 12 = 303 513 ad / 24 000 ad = 12.65 days No ViP = 403 513 ad / 24 000 ad = 16.81 days
Step 2: 16 (rank 6) to 8 (rank 7)
12 960 rp to rank a 6 up x 8 = 103 680 rp 103 680 rp / 26370 rp = 3.93 stacks of rank 4 to upgrade 3.93 x 1800 AD = 7077 AD for refining stones. 16 MoP x 2727 (ah price) = 43 636 ad or 16 Mop x 18 750 ad (bazaar vip 12) = 300 000 ad or 16 mop x 25 000 ad (bazaar) =400 000 ad Total AD using AH = 43 636 ad + 7077 ad = 50 713 ad Total AD using Bazaar (vip 12) = 300 000 ad + 7 077 ad = 307 077 ad Total AD using Bazaar (no vip) = 400 000 ad + 7 077 ad = 407 077 ad AH = 50 713 ad / 24 000 ad = 2.11 days Vip 12 = 307 077 ad / 24 000 ad = 12.79 days No ViP = 407 077 ad / 24 000 ad = 16.96 days
Step 3: 8 (rank 7) to 4 rank 8's
34 560 rp x 4 is 138 240 rp 138 240rp / 26370 rp = 5.242 stacks rank 4 5.246 stacks x 1800 ad = 9 436 AD 4 gmop x 75000 ad (vip 12) = 300 000 ad or 4 gmop x 100 000 ad (non vip) = 400 000 ad total AD vip = 309436 or total ad non vip = 409436 Vip 12 = 309436 / 24 000 ad = 12 .83 days Non Vip = 409436 /24 000 ad = 17.05 days
Step 4: 4 rank 8 to 2 rank 9
103 680 rp x 2 = 207 360 rp 207 360 rp / 26 370 rp = 7.86 stacks rank 4 7.86 stacks x 1800 ad = 14 154 AD 4 gmop x 75000 ad (vip 12) = 300 000 ad or 4 gmop x 100 000 ad (non vip) = 400 000 ad Total AD Vip = 314 154 or Total AD non vip = 414 154 Vip 12 = 314 154 ad /24 000 ad = 13.08 days Non Vip = 414 154 ad / 24 000 ad = 17.25 days
Step 5: 2 (rank 9) to 1 (rank 10)
311 040 rp x 1 = 311 040 rp 311 040 rp / 26 370 rp = 11.79 stacks of rank 4 enchantments 11.79 x 1800 ad = 21 231 ad 2 gmop x 75 000 ad (vip 12) = 150 000 ad or 2 gmop x 100 000 ad (non vip) = 200 000 ad Total AD Vip = 171 231 ad or total AD non ViP = 221 231 Vip 12 = 171 231 ad / 24 000 ad = 7.13 days Non ViP = 221 231 ad / 24 000 ad = 9.2 days
Step 6: 1 (Rank 10) to 1 (Rank 11)
622 080 rp 622 080 rp / 26 370 rp = 23.59 stacks 23.59 stacks x 1800 = 42 462 AD 5 gmop x 75 000 ad (vip 12) = 375 000 ad or 5 gmop x 100 000 ad (no vip) = 500 000 ad 1 mark of power = 737 ad current AH 1 mark of stability = 656 ad current AH 1 mark of union = 1090 ad current Ah Total AD Vip = 419 945 ad or Total AD no ViP = 545 298 ad Vip 12 = 419 945 ad / 24 000 ad = 17.49 days non VIP = 545 298 ad / 24 000 ad = 22.72 days
Step 7: 1 (Rank 11) to 1 (Rank 12)
1 088 640 rp 1 088 640 rp / 26 370 rp = 41.28 stacks 41.28 stacks x 1800 ad = 74 309 AD 5 gmop x 75 000 ad (vip 12) = 375 000 ad or 5 gmop x 100 000 ad (no vip) = 500 000 ad 1 greater mark of power = 48 000 ad current ah price 1 greater mark of stability = 8 900 ad current ah price 1 greater mark of union = 53 000 ad current ah price Total AD Vip = 559 209 ad or Total 684 209 AD no ViP = ad Vip 12 = 559 209 ad / 24 000 ad = 23.30 days non VIP = 684 209 ad / 24 000 ad = 28.51 days
Total days using AH to go from 32 rank 5's to 1 rank 12 = 77.9 days at a total cost of 1 868 600 AD Total days using bazaar and vip 12 = 99.27 days at a total cost of 2 382 480 AD Total days using bazaar and no vip = 128.5 days at a total cost of 3 084 000 AD
To do all 18 enchants
Total days using AH = 77.9 days x 18 = 1402 days or 3.8 years at a cost of 33 634 800. Total days using bazaar and vip 12 = 99.27 day x 18 = 1 786 days or 4.9 years at a cost of 42 884 640 Total days using bazaar and no vip = 128.5 days x 18 = 2313 days or 6.33 years at a cost of 55 512 00
Reminder if the Bots go (good riddance) no more purchasing stacks of 99 rank 4 enchants for cheap as the demand will far outweigh the supply.
Any of the Dev team care to go over these numbers please to ensure I am correct thank you.
You can't argue against math.
Just call me Rod. Member of Grievance! CW: Rodrant Turnbul TR: Rodran DC: Rodrat GWF: ROARdrant TurnBRAWL Other GWF: Shieldrant HR: Bowdrant SW: Wardrant Turnlock (my main!) OP: Paladrant (on Preview!)
I'm just a PvE player, that catch all my AD form AH/salvage. It's not much, but i achieved Rank 7/8 in my main, and puple artefacts. All that i catch now, go to AH (cuz upgrade something to legendary t is absurdly expensive, in AD and time).
What most hurt me was, after mod6, no more drops from 'dungeons' (3/6 of them T~T). This Leadership changes really dont gonna hurt me directly, cuz i dont have patience to spend my time in this profession, but reading all these reviews make me feel like a alien in this game (and for the people that REALLY BELIVE they need 3k+iLvL to make eCC in the legit way. Really?).
What do I really like to see? MANY progress BTA (Sharandar, DR, Icewind, Profession and refinement rAD>AD. Stronghold is from guilds, so, it's not 'your only progression'). Until mod6 was easy, im one weekend, cap the rAD Refinement for all the week, cuz you have drops in dungeons, you have something that really give to you rAD, and something to sell in AH. For me, this is the 'right' way to make money in this game. Now, you just have... drops in t1 for AH, and 2(4?) gears (exclude ST Gear). No buffs in gears, no difference, """no builds"""... I was very simplistic, but that's how the game looks, compared to what it was.
But i'm just a alien. Let the Rage of the Leadership Army continue! </p>
Well I too am PvE, but I fully understand this rage and anger, even if you don't. I only do Leadership in 6 to 8 hour blocks and in total they only net me an average of 400 AD per hour per day (9600 AD) Without the AD the crafting system is just worthless. Friday I plan to mail my resources to a friend and let them feed it to that clanky box in their guild.
Since April of this year, they have made one BAD decision after another. Removed dungeons and made the remaining dungeons require 3 players. I liked running solo dungeons. Not any more. Took away Foundry hour, took away the Foundry, took away a lot of stuff that makes this game "enjoyable" and gave us Strongholds... but alas I am not in a guild and have been told what the guild grinding is all about.
As I type this, I am downloading another game that recently went free to play, I am going to try out this weekend. I am a retired person and I get a check each month. I spend money on games because I enjoy playing them. But this game needs to revert to the way it was before April to really be "enjoyable" again. I will pop on and off to look for the Foundry or anything to return. As many other authors have unfinished works in progress and I don't like leaving things half done. Because the Foundry outage, I took up editing the official NWO wiki but sadly the thing is a mess and there are so few people adding information.
To me, this is just another removal of something people like to do, and not give anything back. I really don't know what they will remove next. There isn't much left. Most of my friends have already took off over a month ago, I don't plan to leave the game, but there isn't much to do until they get things together and put the Foundry back up online. I noticed Scott didn't mention the Foundry at all in his posting. So I guess until then, I am on sabbatical?
Suggestion to kill bots and make money in one fell swoop!
1. Get rid of the AD to zen feature. No more turning AD to zen! Everything in the zen shop will require $.
I actually mentioned I would prefer this in a seperate thread that asked what I use my AD for. I don't bother converting AD to Zen. I'm sure it would be unpopular with some, but the reality is that as long as that option to convert AD to Zen is in the game, there will be botters. I don't really see in game prices dropping unless the set prices are dropped. This actually will make the gold sellers comodity even more valuable, supply and demand, simple as that. I'd prefer they let me use my AD to develop my characters than nuke the whole profession lineup.
I personally won't purchase from the 3rd party sellers, it just rubs me wrong... but I can see some who feel deeply ripped off by the incredibly poor way that this has been handled turning to that as an alternative.
0
banzaikittenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 220Arc User
realy?? i played before mod5 10 times or more foundry's ,after that i simply stoped due the insane mob strengts. now this..
Well, as we can see, this is decided and done, and nothing we will say in here, will have any impact next week. Now all we can do is sit back, relax, and let them have it... When the player numbers drop like crazy after this change, the people ordering it might come to their senses, and they might be more willing to actually do something for the game and not against it.
unabletodisplay said:I think this AD ting is a Cryptic / PWE management issue ... I don't think devs have much say in the direction of the game. All the developers / programmers should be accountable for is poor coding and testing.
You may have a point here, it's not like the developers are thinking: "I know what would be really fun to advance the game, LESS REWARD FOR PLAYERS!!! YAY!!!"
More likely it is management saying: "Maybe we can sell more zen if we make it impossible to generate large quantities of in-game currency"
Either way, Cryptic... this is what your CUSTOMERS think you are doing!
And to agree with multiple previous comments: I too have spent large quantities of money on Zen... in the thousands.. SO WTF?
Overall, it just shows, that who ever is ordering to do this, has no clue about the game and the players. More players will just leave, or stop spending any money at all. And at some point, even the "hardcore" fans will stop playing/paying and move on.
Suggestion to kill bots and make money in one fell swoop!
1. Get rid of the AD to zen feature. No more turning AD to zen! Everything in the zen shop will require $.
I actually mentioned I would prefer this in a seperate thread that asked what I use my AD for. I don't bother converting AD to Zen. I'm sure it would be unpopular with some, but the reality is that as long as that option to convert AD to Zen is in the game, there will be botters. I don't really see in game prices dropping unless the set prices are dropped. This actually will make the gold sellers comodity even more valuable, supply and demand, simple as that. I'd prefer they let me use my AD to develop my characters than nuke the whole profession lineup.
I personally won't purchase from the 3rd party sellers, it just rubs me wrong... but I can see some who feel deeply ripped off by the incredibly poor way that this has been handled turning to that as an alternative.
Removing the Zen exchange would achieve absolutely nothing. Botters have existed in every single MMO I've played in the last sixteen years or so. If there's any means at all to trade in-game assets for in-game currency/real cash, they'll exist.
As far as I've seen there are two primary types; the 'lone wolf' who wants the best of everything without participating in the huge grinds typically associated with MMOs.
Then there's basically "organized crime" where botters work on an industrial scale to farm anything they can to sell to players for real world cash, commonly known as 'gold sellers.' These were often referred to as 'Chinese gold sellers' in games such as WoW, where:
"Rich players from developed countries, wishing to save many hours of playing time, may be willing to pay substantial sums to gold farmers from developing countries."
Oh I agree there will still be botters, I've played many of those games myself. Some got to the point that players who did not run one on an offline account would essentially be annihilated and have their 'work' zero'd, or simply were not competitive. The game producers did nothing, because it had absolutely no impact on their cash shop. Pretty much why I found NW. I have no doubt that element will always be around no matter what.
I disagree that it would achieve absolutely nothing, and I should have been clearer. As long as that conduit between the in-game currency and Cryptic's revenue stream, the Zen shop, exists, it is an avenue to exploit. I don't actually believe this whole Leadership nerf is seriously to combat botting, it is intended to reduce access to those goods simply by playing the game (or playing it with a bot or armies of bots). This is why, and I am speaking only for myself, given a choice, I would prefer they just sever that link and leave leadership as is so I can use my AD to progress my characters. The way this group is rolling though, I would not be one bit surprised if they cut that off as well anyway, they just haven't come up with a way to spin doctor it.
By the numbers part 2. With new changes the time and cost to upgrade a single enchant to rank 12.
TLDR: Most of the cost to rank enchants are fixed. Using AH where applicable it would take a player 77.9 days to rank up to a rank 12 enchant. Using bazaar with VIP it would take 99.27 days to rank up a rank 5 to a rank 12 enchant. Using bazaar no ViP it would take 128.5 days to rank up a rank 5 to a rank 12 in the new proposed system!
I am going to do this based on a player farming 32 rank 5 which at 70 is very easy to do! Yes folks it takes 32 I am using rank 4 enchants of the same type to get the 2 x bonus in my calculations at a price of 1 800 ad per stack! Reminder if bots leave the game you will be unable to purchase cheap rank 4s or mops. I assumed free preservation wards from praying!
Step 1: 32 (rank 5) enchants to 16 (rank 6)
3 240 rp x 16 = 51480 RP 51480 RP / 26370 = 1.95 stacks 1.95 stacks x 1800 rp = 3 513 ad 16 MoP x 2727 (ah price) = 43 636 ad or 16 Mop x 18 750 ad (bazaar vip 12) = 300 000 ad or 16 mop x 25 000 ad (bazaar) =400 000 ad Total AD using AH = 43 636 ad + 3 513 ad = 47 149 ad Total AD using Bazaar (vip 12) = 300 000 ad + 3 513 ad = 303 513 ad Total AD using Bazaar (no vip) = 400 000 ad + 3 513 ad = 403 513 ad AH = 47 149 ad / 24 000 ad = 1.96 days Vip 12 = 303 513 ad / 24 000 ad = 12.65 days No ViP = 403 513 ad / 24 000 ad = 16.81 days
Step 2: 16 (rank 6) to 8 (rank 7)
12 960 rp to rank a 6 up x 8 = 103 680 rp 103 680 rp / 26370 rp = 3.93 stacks of rank 4 to upgrade 3.93 x 1800 AD = 7077 AD for refining stones. 16 MoP x 2727 (ah price) = 43 636 ad or 16 Mop x 18 750 ad (bazaar vip 12) = 300 000 ad or 16 mop x 25 000 ad (bazaar) =400 000 ad Total AD using AH = 43 636 ad + 7077 ad = 50 713 ad Total AD using Bazaar (vip 12) = 300 000 ad + 7 077 ad = 307 077 ad Total AD using Bazaar (no vip) = 400 000 ad + 7 077 ad = 407 077 ad AH = 50 713 ad / 24 000 ad = 2.11 days Vip 12 = 307 077 ad / 24 000 ad = 12.79 days No ViP = 407 077 ad / 24 000 ad = 16.96 days
Step 3: 8 (rank 7) to 4 rank 8's
34 560 rp x 4 is 138 240 rp 138 240rp / 26370 rp = 5.242 stacks rank 4 5.246 stacks x 1800 ad = 9 436 AD 4 gmop x 75000 ad (vip 12) = 300 000 ad or 4 gmop x 100 000 ad (non vip) = 400 000 ad total AD vip = 309436 or total ad non vip = 409436 Vip 12 = 309436 / 24 000 ad = 12 .83 days Non Vip = 409436 /24 000 ad = 17.05 days
Step 4: 4 rank 8 to 2 rank 9
103 680 rp x 2 = 207 360 rp 207 360 rp / 26 370 rp = 7.86 stacks rank 4 7.86 stacks x 1800 ad = 14 154 AD 4 gmop x 75000 ad (vip 12) = 300 000 ad or 4 gmop x 100 000 ad (non vip) = 400 000 ad Total AD Vip = 314 154 or Total AD non vip = 414 154 Vip 12 = 314 154 ad /24 000 ad = 13.08 days Non Vip = 414 154 ad / 24 000 ad = 17.25 days
Step 5: 2 (rank 9) to 1 (rank 10)
311 040 rp x 1 = 311 040 rp 311 040 rp / 26 370 rp = 11.79 stacks of rank 4 enchantments 11.79 x 1800 ad = 21 231 ad 2 gmop x 75 000 ad (vip 12) = 150 000 ad or 2 gmop x 100 000 ad (non vip) = 200 000 ad Total AD Vip = 171 231 ad or total AD non ViP = 221 231 Vip 12 = 171 231 ad / 24 000 ad = 7.13 days Non ViP = 221 231 ad / 24 000 ad = 9.2 days
Step 6: 1 (Rank 10) to 1 (Rank 11)
622 080 rp 622 080 rp / 26 370 rp = 23.59 stacks 23.59 stacks x 1800 = 42 462 AD 5 gmop x 75 000 ad (vip 12) = 375 000 ad or 5 gmop x 100 000 ad (no vip) = 500 000 ad 1 mark of power = 737 ad current AH 1 mark of stability = 656 ad current AH 1 mark of union = 1090 ad current Ah Total AD Vip = 419 945 ad or Total AD no ViP = 545 298 ad Vip 12 = 419 945 ad / 24 000 ad = 17.49 days non VIP = 545 298 ad / 24 000 ad = 22.72 days
Step 7: 1 (Rank 11) to 1 (Rank 12)
1 088 640 rp 1 088 640 rp / 26 370 rp = 41.28 stacks 41.28 stacks x 1800 ad = 74 309 AD 5 gmop x 75 000 ad (vip 12) = 375 000 ad or 5 gmop x 100 000 ad (no vip) = 500 000 ad 1 greater mark of power = 48 000 ad current ah price 1 greater mark of stability = 8 900 ad current ah price 1 greater mark of union = 53 000 ad current ah price Total AD Vip = 559 209 ad or Total 684 209 AD no ViP = ad Vip 12 = 559 209 ad / 24 000 ad = 23.30 days non VIP = 684 209 ad / 24 000 ad = 28.51 days
Total days using AH to go from 32 rank 5's to 1 rank 12 = 77.9 days at a total cost of 1 868 600 AD Total days using bazaar and vip 12 = 99.27 days at a total cost of 2 382 480 AD Total days using bazaar and no vip = 128.5 days at a total cost of 3 084 000 AD
To do all 18 enchants
Total days using AH = 77.9 days x 18 = 1402 days or 3.8 years at a cost of 33 634 800. Total days using bazaar and vip 12 = 99.27 day x 18 = 1 786 days or 4.9 years at a cost of 42 884 640 Total days using bazaar and no vip = 128.5 days x 18 = 2313 days or 6.33 years at a cost of 55 512 00
Reminder if the Bots go (good riddance) no more purchasing stacks of 99 rank 4 enchants for cheap as the demand will far outweigh the supply.
Any of the Dev team care to go over these numbers please to ensure I am correct thank you.
there is only 1 issue with your numbers since you are using 24k AD as a base, we will NO LONGER get 24k ad anymore after this change, the MOST AD we will get is 19,200 (that's the cap we can earn a day) there will be no ad from salavage, they removed AD as rewards from leadership. so your numbers are flawed based on that.
The botters are not going to just disappear, they have no reason to do so.
In fact, goldsellers will be swimming in orders for AD from next week on forward. Their AD will rise in value, and as long as they stay below the AD prices for ZEN through ZAX, they will make a nice profit. And the bots will be running wild through dungeons, skirmishes and PvP to max their AD gain to supply the increased demand.
Welcome to Neverendingbotting Online
This is a very true statement, unless for all we know. The company is in fact the ones that are "botting"! They are going to remove our means to gain AD so they can double, triple and quad up the prices of their AD they botted up. That is a bigger cash boon for them then selling VIP!
I wonder what a dev's boon tree looks like:
they probably have:
we have shanadar they have customer service we have dread ring they have nerf tree we have stronghold they have kill player base
there is only 1 issue with your numbers since you are using 24k AD as a base, we will NO LONGER get 24k ad anymore after this change, the MOST AD we will get is 19,200 (that's the cap we can earn a day) there will be no ad from salavage, they removed AD as rewards from leadership. so your numbers are flawed based on that.
Ummm, if you refer to Scott's Original post you'll see there is no change to invoke or salvage, so yes - that maths is correct.
I have a problem with the requirements of getting AD, like most people I have hardly any time to play a game (wife and kids even dog come first) so getting in a group to do a dungeon run pretty much blows for me. With the current dungeons in the game that require 1,600 or even the 2,000 item score are great since I have a whopping 2.5k item score but people want 3k for the 1,600 dungeons and 4k for the 2k dungeons.
How about you bring back epic clock tower (put it at 500 item score - so its a group people will only want 2k base) for us very casual players with our alt armies? Make it a single player dungeon if you want but have something that we can use these hordes of epic keys we are getting from vip access.. I latterly have over 3 stacks of 99 vip epic dungeon keys which are more useless then the scrolls of idenfication. or makes those keys able to open normal dungeons for us non-4k item score elitists that have more things to do than flash our item scores to get in a dungeon that less then half the required amount.
My guess: he said you must either have time to play and get AD, or have no time and buy zen with money.
Leadership was a way for guys with no time, to get AD-Zen without paying money. Leadership being on gateway allowed such guys to manage a leadership army everywhere. Now only option for guys with no time will be to buy Zen cause there will be no other way to earn ADs.
Still, being smart you can find good ways to earn fast AD. Will just be less authomatic and easy than "creating a leadership army.
Not sure if and how this will affect botters since i'm not into the matter. We will see...
My suggestions:
Make Epic Dungeons give REAL REWARDS. I mean those drops you could sell for a lot of ADs in auction house.
Make campaigns complete for all toons on same account. I mean, ok, you can sell campaign completion items from zen store to players who don't want to grind all campaigns and wait weeks to have all boons.
But if i already completed all the sh*tload of stuff you go through to gett all boons in all campaigns...why the hell i must repeat the same titanic quest for each new toon i create on my account????? It's completely alt-unfriendly and HAMSTER.
Right now, creating alts was useful only to have a leadership army and earn AD while focusing on your main toon. With these changes, who do you think will EVER try to create alts? For what purpose? To complete dungeons and PvP you need to build them a bit. Main way to build them is through boons.
I have 5 toons. 1 is main with all boons. 4 are alts i try to more or less develop a bit. I'd play them more but seriously, to make them decent i need to get boons. To get boons i have to grind each campaign basically 4 times.
You devs must be out of your mind if you think any SANE person woul ever grind Shar, Dread, Icewind, ToD and the rest more than once.
Which means, building alts is basically impossible and useless right now, after these leadership changes.
If leadership army is not useful anymore, make the game more alt-friendly.
Like giving a Bound to Character copy of your main toon's enchants to each new alt you create. If you sell the original enchant, the "copies" on your account are deleted, being basically "linked" to the original source (main toon gear).
And once you complete all the campaigns and get all the boons on one toon, you automatically get them "Account wide" on all the other toons.
Right now, we have the majority of posters in this thread saying what a ridiculous idea it is. We're probably the minority who actually follow the forums and news, and keep updated with information on the game.
Come Thursday, there'll be a whole lot of players logging in to to find their alts, be it one or two, or 'an army' can no longer generate primary currency for them with one or two logins a day. Do the developers really think these people will instead spend countless hours per day grinding normal Temple of the Spider and Dread Legion on multiple characters just to generate revenue for the insane refinement grind?
I'd imagine even the most patient players are suddenly going to realize mindnumbing repetition and minimal reward equals 'look for a new game.' MMO players are often noted for the ability to show patience with a grind, but even the most patient must have a point where common sense kicks in and they see that their entertainment is turning into a job... and not a lucrative, enjoyable one at that...
maybe not just fire, but Hasbro could revoke liscense contract because it is ruining the reputation. i dont understand these devs and business managers doing more harm than rather fighting the bots since they take big slice of cut from Cryptic, and they are the ones who voliated CoC and EULA, not the players. again, i wonder what the devs are doing, are they driving this game into the MMO Graveyard? so they can get unemployment check? no, i would forbid them, if i am CEO of other game firm, i wouldnt hire them, i would blacklist those. i would hire unemployed programmers from Kingdom of Kaldimar, those work for Studio 38 did very well and almost flawless/bug free game, they all have lost and most are unpaid since Studio 38 went bankrupted.
Very well said!
As a former active law practitioner i have looked a few times at the contract terms under which we make a deal and i have tried once to point out to Lew, that they should change it or make a huge rework on it, cause it wouldn't stand a chance in front of a real independent court. It has more flaws in it, then correct lines. The entire word structure can be stretched like a chewing gum, a playground for lawyers.
I am very close to believe too, that they want to get out of contract and this is a "mild" way to get rid of us and being able to shut down the servers or keep them only alive like a mummy as a decoy, only with a select few on board.
Even the worst manager on earth would now, he is killing the game slowly, but surely, i have no doubts here.
Blacklist doesn't work sadly, it worked back in the past but not nowadays, but yes it would be the ultimate tool to make abusers stop playing with licences and people's money and feelings again and again. The sad truth is, that many people involved in this won't cry a tear if NWO goes to the graveyard, cause they have their fingers in many other games, many other projects, so sadly we will meet them again for sure. They are like energy, they don't get wasted, they just transform.
Off topic a bit:
BTW the entire IT industry is a big bad joke nowadays, just take a look at it closer, some examples from the IT world, 15-19 year old kids playing Mods, kicking and banning adult people, early 20's making decisions, that in the past not only a 40+ year old would have dared to make without consulting for at least a month with experts or just speak about quality, gone, just refurbished games are rolled out, it would take a miracle to brake this cycle, but i don't wanna go too deep in this.
The real honest man is honest from conviction of what is right, not from policy.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
0
kreatyveMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 10,545Community Moderator
strange I loaded up on the test server and when I salavaged my weapon it gave me a mark of something instead of AD.
That's because you salvaged an artifact weapon. Salvaging your artifact weapon never gave AD.
My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official. Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
An account wide AD limit, and then let the players chose, how they want to reach it... problem solved.
And another point, it's hard to take someone serious, when talking about players not going into foundries, while the Dev support for the foundry is really falling behind, and it allways takes days or even weeks after an update, before foundries can be played again.
You might want to look into that at some point, so that the foundry might see some love too.
I feel campaign Daily quests should give AD, most of the average player's time is spent doing dailies. Also RAD needs to go away. Everything should give AD not rough astral diamonds. We need to get something in return for the loss of AD revenue from Leadership, say a chance at a GMOP or Coalescent Ward for high level Leadership tasks. Though in truth this would make more sense as an Artificing task. Leadership needs to provide something....as a matter of fact all professions need reworked, since other than a couple tasks in Jewelcrafting, Black Ice, and possibly Alchemy the others are totally useless, aside from making undergarments.
I have a problem with the requirements of getting AD, like most people I have hardly any time to play a game (wife and kids even dog come first) so getting in a group to do a dungeon run pretty much blows for me. With the current dungeons in the game that require 1,600 or even the 2,000 item score are great since I have a whopping 2.5k item score but people want 3k for the 1,600 dungeons and 4k for the 2k dungeons.
How about you bring back epic clock tower (put it at 500 item score - so its a group people will only want 2k base) for us very casual players with our alt armies? Make it a single player dungeon if you want but have something that we can use these hordes of epic keys we are getting from vip access.. I latterly have over 3 stacks of 99 vip epic dungeon keys which are more useless then the scrolls of idenfication. or makes those keys able to open normal dungeons for us non-4k item score elitists that have more things to do than flash our item scores to get in a dungeon that less then half the required amount.
Hey I saw your post complaing about people not wanting to invite you to dungeons because they discriminate you on item level. If you are looking for a guild I could invite you to ours, True DragonBlood. We're a friendly non-exploit guild that welcome any player, no matter level, item level or level of experience. We're here to help and have fun. You have a good day - Elva
Damage report: Just imagine fellow players and dear officals, what will hit us next week, if this HAMSTER will go live, my guild, which has 97 active acounts and a weekend peak usually this time, has only 4 people online, me included. Nobody is doing anything substantial in SH, all are afraid to spend, cause nobody can see the outcome of this "fantastic" decision.
The real honest man is honest from conviction of what is right, not from policy.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
I love it. Finally the non-players who had 10 characters all running leadership purely to generate AD will have to actually play the game to earn money. Insane prices on some items will finally fall to where normal players can afford them. Wallet warriors will still be able to spend money and casual players with an hour or so a day to run a dungeon will be able to actually make AD. People will have something to shoot for and gear will become worth something again. They should have made this change long ago, not that the AD mongers will not still find ways to farm endless AD, but at least they can turn off the easiest method that any schlub with too much time on his hands can use to generate AD and inflate the economy.
Well, I play my 11 characters, thank you. And even as a casual, I depend on the LS profession to get the marks and wards required to advance my toons. More so because I've got not so much free time than because I've got too much of it. The point is: there was (since a year or so), is, and will be (with the anounced changes) not enough AD to make in game, except for the BiS crowd, especially for casuals, which often don't hit skirmish times and don't have time for more than one or two dungeon runs on most days. It's NOT motivating to see a demand of 1m AD (fixed by Cryptic and no reduction proposed) or more just to upgrade one single artifact of eight on one single character out of eleven, while only able to earn about 10-20k AD per day (not per character).
I'm laughing all the way to the dungeon and I hope folks can take it in good humor. It's not theft; nobody is entitled to make waves of AD for virtually no effort. That's been a problem with this game from the start.
In my book, if you sell me something (DH upgrades, LS assets, etc.) and take it away shortly later it IS theft, quite the same like the web shop which take money in advance and never delivers. And if you do that more than once, you're bound to lose paying customers: "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me".
That's why such a behavior is call "bad business practice".
Not to mention the fact that the official stated reason, "to stop botters", doesn't pass the smell test. Either the designers are out-of-touch (or incompetent) to an astonishing degree or it's a flat-out lie. To be brutally honest, I'm leaning towards the latter. I can only wonder if the designers have too much hubris to realize the degree that players now distrust their honesty. In my experience, there is nothing more toxic to a business than when customers feel like they have been lied to.
Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
Damage report: Just imagine fellow players and dear officals, what will hit us next week, if this HAMSTER will go live, my guild, which has 97 active acounts and a weekend peak usually this time, has only 4 people online, me included. Nobody is doing anything substantial in SH, all are afraid to spend, cause nobody can see the outcome of this "fantastic" decision.
Well, it looks like they only want big guilds with deep pockets to have all those Stronghold benefits. And i think this will even get more interesting, when they throw in Stronghold PvP... I'd say we have some very intersting times ahead of us.
I have 23 toons, all are different and I play each one. I don't play everyone everyday, but they all get played. Yes they all do leadership, but I don't "Farm" them daily... and certainly not multiple times a day. I have been playing for over 2 years.
When I do gather the AD from them it's to purchase something from the AH for one of them. I don't use the ZaX for Zen purchases. I do spend cash for the occasional big ticket item, and to bump some AD into the mix for my AH purchases.
None of my toons are Uber or have rank 9s or 10s... I do have many fashion items and companions spread out over all my characters. (i'm a collector of sorts and I really like my characters and their diversity)
So yes... I think this will hurt me. Mainly because of the dwindling population, and I won't be able to collect the things that I don't have time or patience to grind.
I have all 8 sigils from the vault of the nine by doing the campaigns enough to get my classes through to IWD. But any new class will in all likelihood be unplayed as a result of the changes.
Sorry, maybe I'm not your typical player, and I don't think I'm a whale. But I can count the more than $1500 hard earned dollars I put into the game for the fun of it. Now that it seems far less fun, my funds have been diverted to other things.
One big thing, that Cryptic always forgets, is that they first should deliver a quality product, then, but only then stretch out their hands for more money.
Currently i see only bugs in the game and some new ninja nerfs. What idiot would pay more, if he can't play on normal pace, like having 2 sec lag, unplayable maps, 3 year old bugs, WD-40 and EoA premades trolling GG PVP against 2k item level PUGs, cause we have not a bit of ELO or real matchmaking. Waiting time for a q for those few remaining dungeons is unbearable, just to name a few i have seen in these 2 hours, but i could go on for a day, my list would fill the entire thread. They really should be lucky, we supprt them so much and are still here playing their game, cause we love the initial product and DnD.
So dear Cryptic, before you even think about asking for more money, please command the different departments to do their job properly.
The real honest man is honest from conviction of what is right, not from policy.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
Comments
What most hurt me was, after mod6, no more drops from 'dungeons' (3/6 of them T~T).
This Leadership changes really dont gonna hurt me directly, cuz i dont have patience to spend my time in this profession, but reading all these reviews make me feel like a alien in this game (and for the people that REALLY BELIVE they need 3k+iLvL to make eCC in the legit way. Really?).
What do I really like to see? MANY progress BTA (Sharandar, DR, Icewind, Profession and refinement rAD>AD. Stronghold is from guilds, so, it's not 'your only progression').
Until mod6 was easy, im one weekend, cap the rAD Refinement for all the week, cuz you have drops in dungeons, you have something that really give to you rAD, and something to sell in AH. For me, this is the 'right' way to make money in this game. Now, you just have... drops in t1 for AH, and 2(4?) gears (exclude ST Gear). No buffs in gears, no difference, """no builds"""... I was very simplistic, but that's how the game looks, compared to what it was.
But i'm just a alien. Let the Rage of the Leadership Army continue!
CW: Rodrant Turnbul
TR: Rodran
DC: Rodrat
GWF: ROARdrant TurnBRAWL
Other GWF: Shieldrant
HR: Bowdrant
SW: Wardrant Turnlock (my main!)
OP: Paladrant (on Preview!)
Since April of this year, they have made one BAD decision after another. Removed dungeons and made the remaining dungeons require 3 players. I liked running solo dungeons. Not any more. Took away Foundry hour, took away the Foundry, took away a lot of stuff that makes this game "enjoyable" and gave us Strongholds... but alas I am not in a guild and have been told what the guild grinding is all about.
As I type this, I am downloading another game that recently went free to play, I am going to try out this weekend. I am a retired person and I get a check each month. I spend money on games because I enjoy playing them. But this game needs to revert to the way it was before April to really be "enjoyable" again. I will pop on and off to look for the Foundry or anything to return. As many other authors have unfinished works in progress and I don't like leaving things half done. Because the Foundry outage, I took up editing the official NWO wiki but sadly the thing is a mess and there are so few people adding information.
To me, this is just another removal of something people like to do, and not give anything back. I really don't know what they will remove next. There isn't much left. Most of my friends have already took off over a month ago, I don't plan to leave the game, but there isn't much to do until they get things together and put the Foundry back up online. I noticed Scott didn't mention the Foundry at all in his posting. So I guess until then, I am on sabbatical?
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I actually mentioned I would prefer this in a seperate thread that asked what I use my AD for. I don't bother converting AD to Zen. I'm sure it would be unpopular with some, but the reality is that as long as that option to convert AD to Zen is in the game, there will be botters. I don't really see in game prices dropping unless the set prices are dropped. This actually will make the gold sellers comodity even more valuable, supply and demand, simple as that. I'd prefer they let me use my AD to develop my characters than nuke the whole profession lineup.I personally won't purchase from the 3rd party sellers, it just rubs me wrong... but I can see some who feel deeply ripped off by the incredibly poor way that this has been handled turning to that as an alternative.
i played before mod5 10 times or more foundry's ,after that i simply stoped due the insane mob strengts.
now this..
Now all we can do is sit back, relax, and let them have it...
When the player numbers drop like crazy after this change, the people ordering it might come to their senses, and they might be more willing to actually do something for the game and not against it.
You may have a point here, it's not like the developers are thinking:
"I know what would be really fun to advance the game, LESS REWARD FOR PLAYERS!!! YAY!!!"
More likely it is management saying:
"Maybe we can sell more zen if we make it impossible to generate large quantities of in-game currency"
Either way, Cryptic... this is what your CUSTOMERS think you are doing!
And to agree with multiple previous comments: I too have spent large quantities of money on Zen... in the thousands..
SO WTF?
More players will just leave, or stop spending any money at all.
And at some point, even the "hardcore" fans will stop playing/paying and move on.
I disagree that it would achieve absolutely nothing, and I should have been clearer. As long as that conduit between the in-game currency and Cryptic's revenue stream, the Zen shop, exists, it is an avenue to exploit. I don't actually believe this whole Leadership nerf is seriously to combat botting, it is intended to reduce access to those goods simply by playing the game (or playing it with a bot or armies of bots). This is why, and I am speaking only for myself, given a choice, I would prefer they just sever that link and leave leadership as is so I can use my AD to progress my characters. The way this group is rolling though, I would not be one bit surprised if they cut that off as well anyway, they just haven't come up with a way to spin doctor it.
I wonder what a dev's boon tree looks like:
they probably have:
we have shanadar they have customer service
we have dread ring they have nerf tree
we have stronghold they have kill player base
would be funny to see some made up dev boons.
1. Increase the amount of RP stones (Gear,enchantments)
2. Set everything ONLY Account bound- (NO more character bound)
3. The Possibility to craft a "GMOP"
4. craft items with with 16h /24hours or higher, Need definitely a Greater value Rewards on it.
5. Focus on attractive Rewards for lv 70 Players (I don't mean XP)
6. Changes to get all different Greater Marks
7. Last one,- ADD Preservation Wards for Leadership max level Blue/Green-
on for the Longest processing Time-
YES PLEASE
How about you bring back epic clock tower (put it at 500 item score - so its a group people will only want 2k base) for us very casual players with our alt armies? Make it a single player dungeon if you want but have something that we can use these hordes of epic keys we are getting from vip access.. I latterly have over 3 stacks of 99 vip epic dungeon keys which are more useless then the scrolls of idenfication. or makes those keys able to open normal dungeons for us non-4k item score elitists that have more things to do than flash our item scores to get in a dungeon that less then half the required amount.
Leadership was a way for guys with no time, to get AD-Zen without paying money. Leadership being on gateway allowed such guys to manage a leadership army everywhere. Now only option for guys with no time will be to buy Zen cause there will be no other way to earn ADs.
Still, being smart you can find good ways to earn fast AD. Will just be less authomatic and easy than "creating a leadership army.
Not sure if and how this will affect botters since i'm not into the matter. We will see...
My suggestions:
Make Epic Dungeons give REAL REWARDS. I mean those drops you could sell for a lot of ADs in auction house.
Make campaigns complete for all toons on same account.
I mean, ok, you can sell campaign completion items from zen store to players who don't want to grind all campaigns and wait weeks to have all boons.
But if i already completed all the sh*tload of stuff you go through to gett all boons in all campaigns...why the hell i must repeat the same titanic quest for each new toon i create on my account?????
It's completely alt-unfriendly and HAMSTER.
Right now, creating alts was useful only to have a leadership army and earn AD while focusing on your main toon.
With these changes, who do you think will EVER try to create alts? For what purpose? To complete dungeons and PvP you need to build them a bit. Main way to build them is through boons.
I have 5 toons. 1 is main with all boons. 4 are alts i try to more or less develop a bit. I'd play them more but seriously, to make them decent i need to get boons. To get boons i have to grind each campaign basically 4 times.
You devs must be out of your mind if you think any SANE person woul ever grind Shar, Dread, Icewind, ToD and the rest more than once.
Which means, building alts is basically impossible and useless right now, after these leadership changes.
If leadership army is not useful anymore, make the game more alt-friendly.
Like giving a Bound to Character copy of your main toon's enchants to each new alt you create. If you sell the original enchant, the "copies" on your account are deleted, being basically "linked" to the original source (main toon gear).
And once you complete all the campaigns and get all the boons on one toon, you automatically get them "Account wide" on all the other toons.
Right now, we have the majority of posters in this thread saying what a ridiculous idea it is. We're probably the minority who actually follow the forums and news, and keep updated with information on the game.
Come Thursday, there'll be a whole lot of players logging in to to find their alts, be it one or two, or 'an army' can no longer generate primary currency for them with one or two logins a day. Do the developers really think these people will instead spend countless hours per day grinding normal Temple of the Spider and Dread Legion on multiple characters just to generate revenue for the insane refinement grind?
I'd imagine even the most patient players are suddenly going to realize mindnumbing repetition and minimal reward equals 'look for a new game.' MMO players are often noted for the ability to show patience with a grind, but even the most patient must have a point where common sense kicks in and they see that their entertainment is turning into a job... and not a lucrative, enjoyable one at that...
As a former active law practitioner i have looked a few times at the contract terms under which we make a deal and i have tried once to point out to Lew, that they should change it or make a huge rework on it, cause it wouldn't stand a chance in front of a real independent court. It has more flaws in it, then correct lines. The entire word structure can be stretched like a chewing gum, a playground for lawyers.
I am very close to believe too, that they want to get out of contract and this is a "mild" way to get rid of us and being able to shut down the servers or keep them only alive like a mummy as a decoy, only with a select few on board.
Even the worst manager on earth would now, he is killing the game slowly, but surely, i have no doubts here.
Blacklist doesn't work sadly, it worked back in the past but not nowadays, but yes it would be the ultimate tool to make abusers stop playing with licences and people's money and feelings again and again. The sad truth is, that many people involved in this won't cry a tear if NWO goes to the graveyard, cause they have their fingers in many other games, many other projects, so sadly we will meet them again for sure. They are like energy, they don't get wasted, they just transform.
Off topic a bit:
BTW the entire IT industry is a big bad joke nowadays, just take a look at it closer, some examples from the IT world, 15-19 year old kids playing Mods, kicking and banning adult people, early 20's making decisions, that in the past not only a 40+ year old would have dared to make without consulting for at least a month with experts or just speak about quality, gone, just refurbished games are rolled out, it would take a miracle to brake this cycle, but i don't wanna go too deep in this.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
And another point, it's hard to take someone serious, when talking about players not going into foundries,
while the Dev support for the foundry is really falling behind,
and it allways takes days or even weeks after an update, before foundries can be played again.
You might want to look into that at some point, so that the foundry might see some love too.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
And if you do that more than once, you're bound to lose paying customers: "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me".
That's why such a behavior is call "bad business practice".
Not to mention the fact that the official stated reason, "to stop botters", doesn't pass the smell test. Either the designers are out-of-touch (or incompetent) to an astonishing degree or it's a flat-out lie. To be brutally honest, I'm leaning towards the latter. I can only wonder if the designers have too much hubris to realize the degree that players now distrust their honesty. In my experience, there is nothing more toxic to a business than when customers feel like they have been lied to.
Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
And i think this will even get more interesting, when they throw in Stronghold PvP...
I'd say we have some very intersting times ahead of us.
When I do gather the AD from them it's to purchase something from the AH for one of them. I don't use the ZaX for Zen purchases. I do spend cash for the occasional big ticket item, and to bump some AD into the mix for my AH purchases.
None of my toons are Uber or have rank 9s or 10s... I do have many fashion items and companions spread out over all my characters. (i'm a collector of sorts and I really like my characters and their diversity)
So yes... I think this will hurt me. Mainly because of the dwindling population, and I won't be able to collect the things that I don't have time or patience to grind.
I have all 8 sigils from the vault of the nine by doing the campaigns enough to get my classes through to IWD. But any new class will in all likelihood be unplayed as a result of the changes.
Sorry, maybe I'm not your typical player, and I don't think I'm a whale. But I can count the more than $1500 hard earned dollars I put into the game for the fun of it. Now that it seems far less fun, my funds have been diverted to other things.
Just my feelings. Thanks for reading.
Currently i see only bugs in the game and some new ninja nerfs. What idiot would pay more, if he can't play on normal pace, like having 2 sec lag, unplayable maps, 3 year old bugs, WD-40 and EoA premades trolling GG PVP against 2k item level PUGs, cause we have not a bit of ELO or real matchmaking. Waiting time for a q for those few remaining dungeons is unbearable, just to name a few i have seen in these 2 hours, but i could go on for a day, my list would fill the entire thread. They really should be lucky, we supprt them so much and are still here playing their game, cause we love the initial product and DnD.
So dear Cryptic, before you even think about asking for more money, please command the different departments to do their job properly.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke