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  • coldcanukcoldcanuk Member Posts: 35 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    Very disappointed that rather than punish the exploiters/boters, you have punished the community. There are ways to have resolved this without forcing the community into a pigeon hole where they must play as you say and not as they want to play the game. Very big disappointment after all the support I have given you in the game and how I always felt you would make things right given enough time.

    So rather than fixing thing, you leave it all to the exploiters and boter who will now be the ones with large amounts of AD save up from their ill-gotten behavior and those of us that played fair and legitimately are punished into oblivion. No AD to get the things we need without PAYING for it. Need a VIP to get that little bit extra, or have to buy Zen to sell for AD to be able to afford the auction house items.

    All this on top of your baffling choice to ignore the bugs/glitches in the Epic Dungeons and by ignoring them, sanction their use, which is skewing your economy more than anything the AD is currently doing. Peo0ple are over geared because they have cheated/exploited/glitched ECC to death, rather than playing the dungeons that are not glitched because you can do it faster and easier due to the glithes, and have accumulated enough seals to buy top level gear even on their players that could not or should not have been able to complete the overpowered dungeons to begin with!

    I am sorry that you have so little regard for the integrity of the game that instead of fixing it, you remove content and avenues for the legitimate players and leave those that helped build your success out in the cold.

    EDIT AFTER LOOKING ON PREVIEW SERVER:
    One more very important question I guess... If we have to run dungeons to get our AD, and the keys for the chest s where we get our AD costs 5,000 AD2, and the amount we can gain from running said dungeons(skirmishes, whatever) is only 7.200 AD a day, then basically you are limiting us to 2,200 AD a Day and discouraging people from running more than 2 Dungeons a day as it will cost you more than you could ever get back from the chests. Can you please explain how this works?
  • anguis3anguis3 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 13 Arc User

    anguis3 said:

    So why is there even a place to flag spam bot AD sellers (which I do every time I am in PE) if you are not going
    to take action against them? I guess it is easier to take action against the actual players!

    They are banned on a daily basis by the thousands.

    And seriously...anybody who thinks gold farmers are kids in their mothers' basements haven't been paying attention for the last five to ten years. :)
    I think you are attributing someone elses quote to me, I said nothing about kids in mom's basement. I am glad to know that the people I flag are banned, if you don't think I flag them, take a long look at my blocked list.

    I have a FTP account, I started playing when the game was released to the FTP crowd, I had 2 slots and
    earned enough AD to convert to Zen (at about 300 AD/zen at that time) to get 6 more slots. I play 5 of my
    toons regularly, I also used my slots to do leadership on 4 of my slots, gemcraft, tailor, plate and black ice
    on my others. I do not consider my 4 slots "BOTS" I played the game exactly as I was told I could play it.

    Even with my 4 leadership slots I am very much under-geared than most people I see in game.

    Not taking a shot here, but it seems this is the easy way out, instead of addressing the bot issue that was
    created by allowing unlimited slots in the first place, that was a disaster waiting to happen, I can't believe no one
    actually saw this coming when the game was in development.


  • regenerderegenerde Member Posts: 3,048 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    It looks like the managment/Devs only response to "numbers", and ignore any feedback being said by active players.
    Then let's hope, that the free falling player numbers after this update to Leadership will get their attention too.

    But they will probably ignore those player numbers, and instead just stare at the magic increase of "players" running dungeons, skirmishes and PvP 24/7... and start wondering, why aren't those "players" buying more ZEN?

    Because those are bots!

    This is just another change, that will do nothing against bots.
    And it looks like they have to crash and burn first, before they might come up with a more reasonable solution in a few months from now...

    Btw. isn't it hight time to start blogging and streaming about Underdark?
    The next module planed for the end of this year?
    Or is Underdark being removed as well?
    I do believe in killing the messenger...
    Want to know why?
    Because it sends a message!
  • fdsakhfduewhfiuffdsakhfduewhfiuf Member Posts: 604 Arc User

    Make leadership tasks give peridots, aquas, and sapphires which are bound to account. Then people who play the game get rewarded, and botting for AD through leadership goes away.

    Wrong. You can use those RP to upgrade enchants and sell them. The only solution would be to make enchants bound too. And that'll be a horrible decision.
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  • szejhuludpuchaczszejhuludpuchacz Member Posts: 306 Arc User



    Tbh, the only problem we have now is clueless game designer not botters.
    2 PVP matchs = 4000 AD?
    what are you smoking?

    Bring back bots to PvP lol... They were always there but with new system numbers will increse drastically.
    200_s.gif
  • kemi1984kemi1984 Member Posts: 849 Arc User

    OK, reality check here guys. They are not doing this to combat bots, just stop with that already. That is as simple as detection code, no in-game changes needed. What is going on here is what always happens with free to play games. Eventually the players find ways of making enough in-game currency to avoid having to pull out the credit card. That is a problem, because the bottom line is that no matter how many players love the game or leave the game if there is not enough credit cards coming through the cash window, the servers have to be turned off. The player base could be happy as a lark and huge as can be, but if there is no cash then the electric bill doesn't get paid, the stockholders sell shares short, and the employees all get fired. It is a business, they are not combating the botters as much as they are combating the players who have found ways to earn cash equivalent in game currency without spending cash. They have to set up the economy such that you need to spend more AD then you can earn in game or you have no incentive to pull out the credit card and keep their servers running. This is just how any free to play business model has to be set up. They had goofed with the leadership and the 50 character slots, now they realize that you can make enough ad with that set up that you never have to buy with cash, so they are closing that avenue. Botting really has nothing to do with it and it is insulting to your players to make that claim. If you wanted bots gone you would have done it long ago, it is possible. Heck just watch trade/PE zone chat for 10 minutes and starting doing IP traces on the spammers. Or as earlier and repeated stated, just implement a 3rd party software detection code and be done with it. Basic economic models like this games are understandable, reasonable, and expected of a for-profit company. So please just be honest with your players and you wont have anywhere as much animosity leveled at you when your actions fail to remove even one bot, but hit their wallets hard.

    Nothing to add here, reality check...checked!
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  • givearandomnamegivearandomname Member Posts: 292 Arc User

    Make leadership tasks give peridots, aquas, and sapphires which are bound to account. Then people who play the game get rewarded, and botting for AD through leadership goes away.

    Wrong. You can use those RP to upgrade enchants and sell them. The only solution would be to make enchants bound too. And that'll be a horrible decision.
    your jokeing right? the rp needed for enchants is so easy to get this has to be a joke if people are wasteing peridots on enchants there HAMSTER

    its not the rp that is a barrier to making enchants its the 100k ad gmop and the 500k ad colesent wards that you need to make them the rp is nothing compared to that so guy gets few peridots from leadership big freakign deal he still needs countless gmop's and col wards to make said enchant. which actualy helps the econmey cause gmops come mostly from vendor 100k a pop which is 100k ad that no longer exist in game.

    but aside enchants are not what peridots and such are for artifact gear which need a lot
    Namin Soulburner
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  • vinceent1vinceent1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,264 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    if you wanna stop printing AD and make game fair, you must do a bit more things

    just lower every character to 3000 IL and delete all AD and RAD and ZEN (refund buyers) from all accounts. only by this you create fair playing field
  • givearandomnamegivearandomname Member Posts: 292 Arc User
    another thing why does every single aspect of this game have to be a grind why not make the daily ad simpler and faster god knows I already have enough to do daily as it is between 4 campaigns daily epic dungen runs stronghold dailes dam game is worse then my job I actualy have to go to work to relax and have fun and that's just sad.

    everything is a grind hell look at artifact gear its a grind to level it when they should be making leveling it up the easy part cause that makes people need more gmops and colalesant wards which takes ad out of the market but no lets make it a hell grind and a costly one.
    Namin Soulburner
    NW-DHNVMMGVJ Dragons horde part one.
    http://youtu.be/0KbqTWeJqxc
  • viperwitch23viperwitch23 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 205 Arc User
    Here won't a free daily chest key any more?
    Yes or no?
    Just curious
  • viperwitch23viperwitch23 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 205 Arc User
    Right now we get 1 free daily key a day that is worth 5000 AD.Well not really worth it but it is a key we don't buy right now so we can have 1 run with free key
    And in the new system no daily skirmish or daily dungeons from Rhix
    And no free daily key?
  • kitkathdkitkathd Member Posts: 286 Arc User
    Actually if you read they state that they are also making this change to reimagine the currencies so that AD=time currency. Leadership contradicted this and also lead do easier botting resources. They changed it, like they change everything else during patches....some people gain some, some people lose some. Part ofthe joy of an MMO is that its always evolving. Learn to adapt, start to play the game.
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  • regenerderegenerde Member Posts: 3,048 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    Actually if you would play the game, you would see that every change in the past against bots did nothing, it only hit the regular players in one way or another.

    The bots are still running wild ingame, but to know and see that, you would have to actually play the game.

    But what actually did happen, they lost a ton of players due to all that [censored] they pulled in the past.
    And guess what?
    With this change, they're going to lose even more players.

    But don't worry, you will still have plenty of bots around you in dungeons, skirmishes and PvP after this change.
    Hey, you might even find an active guild, filled with bots of course, but that's better then a guild with no players at all, right?
    Enjoy it.

    And as you can see, they don't take any player feedback into consideration.
    They just droped the information on what they're going to do.
    And that's it.
    What's on the Preview server, will be patched into the game, no matter how broken it is... but they might come up with some tweaks in a few months.
    I do believe in killing the messenger...
    Want to know why?
    Because it sends a message!
  • vinceent1vinceent1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,264 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    please tell, will be repricing (at least gmop and pres ward and coalescent) items finished for underdark? or before next double refinement weekend started? thanks
  • duryntedurynte Member Posts: 132 Arc User
    goatshark wrote:
    > Hey folks, thank you for all of the feedback. I know this is
    > a very touchy subject and everyone feels very passionately
    > about it,

    It is a mayor change of product, indeed.

    > [...]
    > * We will be watching what these AD changes do to the
    > average player's holdings. Based off of that data we
    > will be re-evaluating all of our AD pricing in the game.
    > * As I'd mentioned, we are looking into solutions for the
    > solo player to get more AD. I hope to have news there
    > very soon.

    Good to know!
    I've been advocating patience from customer side before.
    Given the fix to XP progression in mod 6 shipped with
    about mod 7, and given that develop time will probably
    be spend on Underdark expansion, which I'm looking forward
    to, I expect those chances to ship after mod 8 ships.

    > * [...]
    > * We are also looking into what we can do to make it less
    > painful AD-wise for alts. [...]

    Hopefully so.

    > Again, thank you for the feedback. We are listening to
    > what you say, and we're watching data. All of this
    > information together will continue to help us make
    > positive changes to the game.

    Data can tell the what, when, how many, how fast, et
    cetera. It generally fails to insight in: why.
  • davejustdavedavejustdave Member Posts: 86 Arc User
    Anyone else wondering why we all sit and take this?
    Are we addicted beyond hope?
  • mafoi1515mafoi1515 Member Posts: 33 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    Because "AD" was cancer and is now cured then Gateway get Leadership back because it is now cured... wait I think it is not coming back, maybe all benefits must be cured first or what we are missing????

    Just gonna leave this here and just point on the 24h task vs the 4h task. Also, want to thank Cryptic for really thinking this one through before rolling it out. *two thumbs up!*




    So basically they just took the existing Leadership professions and removed the AD reward. Wow. Really putting in the effort there, devs. Regardless, thanks for helping me see the light, Cryptic. I wont be spending that much time (or money) in your game anymore.


  • asterotgasterotg Member Posts: 1,742 Arc User
    vinceent1 said:

    if you wanna stop printing AD and make game fair, you must do a bit more things

    just lower every character to 3000 IL and delete all AD and RAD and ZEN (refund buyers) from all accounts. only by this you create fair playing field

    Let me guess, you got 3k IL and you hate to fight against better geared players?

    I did not play since beta, farmed CN, DK etc and geared my chars up to lose anything bc of botters, exploiters or haters.

    By the way, a 'fair playing field' is a bubble dream in a game like this one or do you want to 'delete' different specs, power points, bank vaults and fps issues, too?

    Chars: CW, DC, GF, GWF, HR and TR.
  • hustin1hustin1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,464 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    The botters will still be selling unbound RP after this change. Whether they sell R5 stacks for 15k or for 1.5k makes little difference: it's all relative to the amount of AD that players have. The same goes for selling AD: whether they sell 1M AD for $10 or 100k AD for $10 it's all relative. They still wind up making their $10 (from gullible players). If anything, this change ensures that for the near future the botters will have a guaranteed income as their stockpiled AD will be worth many times more than it would otherwise be worth.

    I know, the devs (really, the bean-counters ordering the devs) are hoping that eventually the botters' AD supply will dry up. I doubt it. They'll just get it by selling RP instead.

    Seriously, the bean-counters are ruining this game. I still maintain that the reason that healing potions are still useless (since APRIL!!!) is because they are trying in a not-very-subtle way to force players to buy stones of health. There's a saying: "don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining." People are smarter than that, guys.
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  • snottysnotty Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 476 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    Wake up and smell the coffee people, this whole "bots" excuse has been used on us before and while it was an easy fix to make, cryptic went overboard and really screwed the player base. Im talking back when they introduce the new refining system and made changes to how we got coalescent wards.

    The first thing they did was make Cwards BoP which in itself would have put an end to the bot issue since from that point on all Cwards would be bound thus unsellable but they didn't stop there.

    Then for some odd reason they decided to lower the drop rate of the Cwards from coffer....but as if those 2 changes weren't enough they also decided to add more items to the coffers which now meant that not only is there now a lower drop rate but also more items you might get instead of that chance at a Cward which also means you now have a lower chance to even get Pwards.

    Seems a little excessive to me to fight an overflow of Cwards in the market.

    Now lets think about something else. Back when they made these changes we only needed wards to upgrade gems and enchantments. Now on top of those we also have weapons, off hands, necklaces, belts and 4 artifacts to refine and all added without them ever increasing or returning the availability of Cwards.

    And the same goes for the stupid refining system itself. They said the new system was to make it easier on us since we'd need less stones to upgrade but when you add in all the damn and now seemingly impossible to find reagents its feels a lot harder and more expensive to me since im often force to buy them which guess what....costs ADs

    And now here we are talking about ADs.

    Lets address some of the things scott says.
    Daily Quests & Hourly Events
    Previously, there were separate daily quests that, if you remembered to take them, would reward bonus AD for completing Dungeons, Skirmishes, PvP, and Foundry. Unfortunately, based on our data, far too many people either didn’t know they needed to take these quests, didn't want to go through the effort, or they simply forgot. This lead to Dungeons, Skirmishes, and PvP not rewarding as much AD as was expected in our model. On top of that, though we were expecting players to use the Foundry daily to get AD, we found the vast majority weren't doing so at all.
    For me he hit it right on the head, I didn't/dont want to go through the effort because they were/are boring as hell. Running 3 skirmishes, 4 pvp rounds, 4 foundry quests everyday can and did become mind numbing. Forcing me to do them now to get my AD that they are taking away isn't going to change this and I will still not do them. The only reason I take the daily dungeon quest is because I actually have good reasons to run dungeons. Need seals, SH quests, getting salvageable epics.

    skirms suck, I don't like pvp ever since they added pvp gear and the stupid tenacity stat and foundry... dont even get me started.

    As for the zen/AD exchange, well cryptic can blame themselves for that mess. Got a secret for you, psst...when you make it more profitable to just sell zen items then selling zen..... people stop selling zen.

    If you want to fix the zen exchange first thing you need to do is wipe all the bids. God only knows how many of those listed buying bids are from players who have long since quit the game.

    Second, make enchanted keys unbound again. Because in case you forgot, it was right about the time you made them bound that players stop selling zen on the exchange. Why? because now since everyone cant get keys the items from the boxes became 2 or 3 times more valuable.

    Third, make the AD prices in game more reasonable. Have any of the devs ever really looked at the AD prices that they set for items in game? I mean even for low level items? Look at the implement trader in the market, 21.6K ad for a lvl35 orb. that's a lil insane. The Wondrous Bazaar has many insanely priced items, 125AD for 1 greater scroll of identification, really? And of course lets not forget the GMOPs at 100kAD not too bad except when you figure that you need 6 of them to take an artifact from uncommon to legendary then figure you have 4 artifacts that adds up to a nice 2.4millon ADs needed and I don't even want to know what it takes to get them to mythic.

    Bottom line is, Cryptic created a monster demand for ADs and are now somehow shocked at how the players have dealt with this problem. But once again rather then fix the problem they've created by lowering the demand for ADs they're just going to bend us over for another big screw.

  • hustin1hustin1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,464 Arc User
    snotty said:

    For me he hit it right on the head, I didn't/dont want to go through the effort because they were/are boring as hell. Running 3 skirmishes, 4 pvp rounds, 4 foundry quests everyday can and did become mind numbing. Forcing me to do them now to get my AD that they are taking away isn't going to change this and I will still not do them. The only reason I take the daily dungeon quest is because I actually have good reasons to run dungeons. Need seals, SH quests, getting salvageable epics.

    You would think that after people raised holy Hell about having to run 192 monotonous EE quests that they would be able to make a teensy mental leap: that forcing players to do an infinite amount of monotonous skirmish and dungeon runs for something we actually need to progress wouldn't be received well.

    You would think.
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  • vinceent1vinceent1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,264 Arc User
    asterotg said:

    vinceent1 said:

    if you wanna stop printing AD and make game fair, you must do a bit more things

    just lower every character to 3000 IL and delete all AD and RAD and ZEN (refund buyers) from all accounts. only by this you create fair playing field

    Let me guess, you got 3k IL and you hate to fight against better geared players?

    I did not play since beta, farmed CN, DK etc and geared my chars up to lose anything bc of botters, exploiters or haters.

    By the way, a 'fair playing field' is a bubble dream in a game like this one or do you want to 'delete' different specs, power points, bank vaults and fps issues, too?

    what i wanna say ... You wanna stop leadershiped AD affecting game? Well, then all bis players are leadershiped monsters, you should continue with them. of course its little bit exxagerating and unrealistic )))

    btw. i am not at position with one 3000 IL character

  • xgrandz02xgrandz02 Member Posts: 702 Arc User
    So Here's my Offer Devs!

    Remove Also Piercing dmg from the Game,

    then i will Agree all changes of Leadership = Zero AD from it,
    I'm FINE-
    <::::::[]==0 GwF 0==[]::::::> ● Still waiting for the promised Improvement ●
  • hustin1hustin1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,464 Arc User
    One ironic aspect of this change is that now I have far less incentive to open any lockboxes. Every once in a while I would open some Rusted Iron lockboxes specifically for the Leadership Special Packs. Now I have zero need for them, nor does anyone else. That only leaves Tarmalune trade bars that I can turn into coalescent wards, but honestly it's cheaper to just buy a ward straight from the Zen store. I guess I can finally toss all those lockboxes now.
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  • xgrandz02xgrandz02 Member Posts: 702 Arc User
    How to make everyone happy and still Removing all the AD? lol

    It's Easy- With the Release of Stronghold PvP, give us this:


    1. "Mount Training IV" - (training R3 to Rank4 Book" to 140% speed)

    2. Item Preview functionality / to view auction house stuff for example.

    3. Remove Piercing dmg from the Game (personal thought )

    xd







    <::::::[]==0 GwF 0==[]::::::> ● Still waiting for the promised Improvement ●
  • blanndeblannde Member Posts: 76 Arc User
    Anybody else only get 27 days out of their VIP? instead of 30 days.....
  • suicidalgodotsuicidalgodot Member Posts: 2,465 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    goatshark said:

    [...]

    We will be watching what these AD changes do to the average player's holdings. Based off of that data we will be re-evaluating all of our AD pricing in the game.
    [...]
    ...I remember well what "looking into" meant for us players in the (stealt!) nerf of DH drops...

    ...namely:






    ...and that was it then.

    Sootihing noises won't help - us players. Surely some folks at C will feel better due to having made some of these, but...

    ...maybe finding an employer with correct business ethics might help more.
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