Everybody will hate you long time for using relentless avenger
The build has adapted quite a bit from the initial one...
My current rotation is on Page 6, though I'd still say Relentless Avenger has a place. Particularly in soloing. However if your choose to use it in a Dungeon party, you better make sure to let your team mates know and adapt if they don't want it!
Do you use that build for PvP as well? Or is there a different build for it?
I have not seen so much Devotion Justice builds so far, or maybe I'm just really tired, but this appeals to me the most. The only problem I had was you mentioned that it was PURE PvE build. Maybe you have any different allocations for Feats?
Do you use that build for PvP as well? Or is there a different build for it?
I have not seen so much Devotion Justice builds so far, or maybe I'm just really tired, but this appeals to me the most. The only problem I had was you mentioned that it was PURE PvE build. Maybe you have any different allocations for Feats?
For PvP, if you want to maintain some focus on damage done, I'd drop Beacon of Hope and Prism, keeping Stem the Tide in the Justice Tree... Replacing those to with Unflinching Resolve and Stand Fast from the Bulwark Tree, for a bit more survivability.
That's just offhand, maybe when Stronghold PvP comes out I'll really relook at things, but even then it's generally the same idea, IMO. Again, if you want to do some damage in PvP... lol
That's just offhand, maybe when Stronghold PvP comes out I'll really relook at things, but even then it's generally the same idea, IMO. Again, if you want to do some damage in PvP... lol
I have just made a huge mistake. All along I thought I was looking at a Devotion build. Haha.
Luckily, I checked everything again before I hit 30. So I guess its time to try the Immortal Protection.
Anyway, I saw on others forums that you said that Prot OP are gear dependent. So I was thinking what I should focus on when leveling. Do I get Def/Deflect? Power? Crit?
Also, I have noticed that some Prot Pallies recieve 0 damage in PvP. Is it a bug?
I have just made a huge mistake. All along I thought I was looking at a Devotion build. Haha.
Luckily, I checked everything again before I hit 30. So I guess its time to try the Immortal Protection.
Anyway, I saw on others forums that you said that Prot OP are gear dependent.
If I said that, it's important to note the concept... I believe my comments are focused on when a Protection OP can focus a bit more on DPS then defensive stats as their abilities/armor/boons gives them enough defensive capabilities that they can turn their focus to contributing to directly killing the bad guys.
I believe this happens around 2500-3k item level. Again, just my opinion, but I noticed around 3k I could survive almost everything in PvE at that point and switched to contributing towards DPS for the party (while also maintaining my protection capabilities for them!) in Dungeon runs.
So I was thinking what I should focus on when leveling. Do I get Def/Deflect? Power? Crit?
I'd say for leveling, for the most part, whatever you want really... Feel free to experiment. Level 60-70 is the real leveling challenge, but with the recent tweaks to that by the Devs, it shouldn't be all that hard. Honestly, leveling an OP was a breeze overall. You have enough healing/protection not to die that often, and you will eventually kill the bad guys. lol
Thanks for the build and colorful information. I don't feel it is very gear oriented imo, tanking everything and holding aggro and staying alive with this build and i am only 2.2k iLVL. Great build!
Only question i don't see listed is: What artifact powers are you rolling with on your wep/shield?
Thanks for the build and colorful information. I don't feel it is very gear oriented imo, tanking everything and holding aggro and staying alive with this build and i am only 2.2k iLVL. Great build!
That is particularly true with the recent fixes to the PvE ArmPen issue in T1/T2 dungeons!
Excellent build -- in fact, I'm referencing this for my new OP now that XB1 updated yesterday. So far, I'm having a blast with it, though I did make a minor niggling change for race: I'm running Dragonborn rather than human. Just one question: how did you do your breakdown for attributes? Straight CON/CHA, or did you move between CON/CHA/WIS? I ask because it looks like you did the latter, but I'm not entirely certain -- I'm currently at 20 CON/15 CHA/13 WIS at the moment, and gearing up to go WIS primary with a splash of CON (2 points) and CHA (the remaining five points). That should take me to 24 COn/20 CHA/20 WIS like you have.
Dark I think he roles 16/13/13 with the buff in con (he's human), and he kept putting points into wis and cha so that he would end up with 24/20/20. The extra four points in con is the great con belt. In other guides I've read for my Xbox paladin they focused more on getting the con as high as humanly possible but I think in this guide the paladin winds up with more crit chance, stamina regen, and ap gain. This way he can keep his shield up, and spam protection as much as possible. Could be wrong though, then I would just feel silly. I rolled a human, but ended up with 18/13/13 with bonus in con. My str is at 8. I figured str was kind useless. :$
He then used the extra feat points so he can max out the feats that increase the effectiveness of con and cha in t4.
Ahh, that would explain it with the attributes, then. With me being on XB1, stuff like that Great CON belt is pretty new (plus, I've always tried to focus predominantly on Leadership as a profession early on, so everything else is lagging far, far behind).
The feat points, I think I can handle, though I won't be quite as effective as he is with CON, but I suppose the fact that I'll wind up with an equal CON before getting a CON belt or one of those artifact belts with CON on it will mitigate that somewhat.
Thank you for the guide - it's been a big help as I leveled my first Paladin to 70 on the XB1. Dying was not an issue, and competing fights was faster than with my GF. Do you have any suggestions for a more defensive oriented build for group play while we level up our gear? I am at 2000 iLevel with blues from the Vigilance Quest Rewards. I popped into Kessell's and got stunned to death easily by the Behemoth ... . Of course, I also need to learn how to play the OP in a group.
Edit - my question is vague. Just wondering if you recommend any specific powers, or feat changes, for those of us new to 70 and the much harder content.
Thanks for the build .Just i have a question.Does this build overcome epic dungeons ?
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
TBH kolat, I feel that any BiS or close to BiS group these days doesn't need us tanks and healers anymore...its a bit of a sad state of affairs to be back to that stage already
TBH kolat, I feel that any BiS or close to BiS group these days doesn't need us tanks and healers anymore...its a bit of a sad state of affairs to be back to that stage already
With the changes to the current Dungeons difficulty, I agree. Maybe upcoming Dungeons will have harder/challenging content again, for those of a higher Item level...
Also, I have noticed that some Prot Pallies recieve 0 damage in PvP. Is it a bug?
seems like shielding strike - even on justice when dueling other good geared paladins with TPF it looks smth like this - 0 0 0 0 0 0 5 0 0 0 0 0 70 0 0 0 0... prot has more options to reducing damage
What companions would you recommend to a xboxer without access to zhentarim warlock or death slaad? Would you recommend going straight to recovery rings for a new level 70 or stick with the regeneration ones you had originally? Also for a new level 70, should I go for the "dps" build you have updated or stick more with the survivability of the original with a lot of points in constitution and HP boons? (For a new 70, I will have full alliance assault, gemmed rings and pants)
Awesome guide! Thanks for all the hard work you put in!
Post edited by jody095 on
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
edited October 2015
@kolatmaster Ok, so since I couldn't find an answer to this question and I am trying out my own variations of protection paladin as well as testing other players....I have to ask, what lead you to drop Aura gifts in favour of more of the justice feats?
@kolatmaster Ok, so since I couldn't find an answer to this question and I am trying out my own variations of protection paladin as well as testing other players....I have to ask, what lead you to drop Aura gifts in favour of more of the justice feats?
This is just pure speculation on my part as I haven't tried it, but I am thinking that the combination of Beacon of Hope + Prism causes his Burning Guidance boon to proc more?
@kolatmaster Ok, so since I couldn't find an answer to this question and I am trying out my own variations of protection paladin as well as testing other players....I have to ask, what lead you to drop Aura gifts in favour of more of the justice feats?
depending on the build. im recovery based, for more ap regen and really really fast recharge of templars, so auras gifts isnt all that great a buff. the extra defense from warriors bastion doesnt mean much in a permabubble world. and prots healing is pathetic so 10-15% more isnt really worth it. and we have 1 healing spell so specing to get ap from it is kinda silly.
same with most of the bulwark tree that you can get in a justice build. unflinching resolve is nice, stand your ground is questionable ( i find im fairly mobile), martyrs blood doesnt mean much at permabubble, sanctity and to my side..... holy resurgence can make sense w/ prism + bg. or in pvp when you're trying to avoid being cc'd
the top line is where all the good recharge feats are. so pretty much a given. bound by light is highly usefull in pve. stem the tide has its place in pvp since you cant have a companion its the only place it really makes any sense. and prism + bg can do some damage while blocking and/or if you're near a healer.
the only thing i'd change from @kolatmaster's build is swap bacon of hope for holy resurgence or unflinching resolve.
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
edited October 2015
So I was bored today and decided to do some completely theoretical work on a potentially completely invulnerable character. It is not for a character that is in any way, shape or form optimised, but I thought it would be a nice thing to share regardless. Thought I would share it here, considering it seems like something that would interest you @kolatmaster . The idea here is for binding oath to always be available for use before its timer resets, as if you can continuously reset it before its timer expires, you never take any damage, ever. So it goes like this:
Firstly, you want to have about 1 second leeway for casting it before the timer expires, so I am going to say you need to reduce its cool down to 7 seconds, not 8, to become completely invulnerable:
Now, lets look at the Justice capstone, which reduces your cooldowns 0.35 of the cooldown on the label. This means, that you actually need to reduce binding oath's cooldown to 7*100/65=10.769 before you are completely invulnerable. However, because of NWO's rounding, you realistically need to reduce the cooldown to 10 seconds, in order to become invulnerable (which means 10 seconds or less).
To reduce the cooldown to 10 seconds, you need a recharge speed increase of: 22/10 = 2.2 or, to put it in other terms, an additional 120%
So, is it theoretically possible to achieve that recharge speed off your own characters? Aura of wisdom: 25% recharge speed increase (you now need 95% bonus) 6% bonus from feats: (you now need 89% bonus) max int roll (12)+7 points from levelling+4 from int belt = 23-10 = 13% (you now need a 82% bonus) 2% bonus from book imp (you now need a 80% bonus)
Recovery off your own gear: Remaining to acquire: 8230.6 7 offense slots *700 = 4.9k recovery (2MH+1OH+1Cloak+1Shirt+2Ring) 400 recovery from boons (not counting stronghold boons) 2270 from recovery from 4 piece gear. 1221 from personalised stuff with recovery on it. 4000 recovery from mythic artifacts with recovery on them 596 recovery from owlbear belt + imperial cloak. 8230.6-4900-400-2270-1221-4000-596 = -5156.4 recovery, or 25% recharge speed
This means that firstly, 145% is the absolute roof (allowing for 9 second BO before justice capstone)) for recharge speed increase on paladin (there is absolutely no need for this much, but you know, if you wanted to, you could build for it) and that its possible to be completely immune to damage, if you were bored and wanted to. With heroism as a daily, you could deal with control immunity and then spam at wills to kill things, completely safe in the knowledge that your recharge speed increase makes you completely invulnerable.
With heroism as a daily, you could deal with control immunity and then spam at wills to kill things, completely safe in the knowledge that your recharge speed increase makes you completely invulnerable.
shield power for courage is 25% immunity + 10% immunity from bulwark feat + 50% immunity from sylph.
and the main downside of a pure recovery build is frost chants.
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
With heroism as a daily, you could deal with control immunity and then spam at wills to kill things, completely safe in the knowledge that your recharge speed increase makes you completely invulnerable.
shield power for courage is 25% immunity + 10% immunity from bulwark feat + 50% immunity from sylph.
and the main downside of a pure recovery build is frost chants.
I don't pvp, so I really don't worry about stuff that doesn't effect me. (Monsters don't use frost enchants) and my theory is 100% valid for pve.
Any updates on the new artifacts? As an upcoming level 70 OP, I'm curious whether or not to devote my time to levelling the old elemental fire weapon, or aim for one of the newer Underdark ones?
I'm also guessing Dusk 2/4 and Drowcraft 2 for set bonuses are best?
Any updates on the new artifacts? As an upcoming level 70 OP, I'm curious whether or not to devote my time to levelling the old elemental fire weapon, or aim for one of the newer Underdark ones?
I'm also guessing Dusk 2/4 and Drowcraft 2 for set bonuses are best?
Hey bud, nothing major really... Definitely nothing new on Artifacts, still the same as of right now IMO.
Though I agree Dusk at a 2x/3x is good, and then whatever else you want really... 2x Dusk and 2x Drow is perfectly fine!
Love your Scourge Warlock build, been playing that as my main for a while now.
Came across this one, and wanted to give it a go. But I, for the very life of me, can not figure out what your starting ability scores are :). Would you mind posting them and the history please?
Comments
My current rotation is on Page 6, though I'd still say Relentless Avenger has a place. Particularly in soloing. However if your choose to use it in a Dungeon party, you better make sure to let your team mates know and adapt if they don't want it!
I have not seen so much Devotion Justice builds so far, or maybe I'm just really tired, but this appeals to me the most. The only problem I had was you mentioned that it was PURE PvE build. Maybe you have any different allocations for Feats?
That's just offhand, maybe when Stronghold PvP comes out I'll really relook at things, but even then it's generally the same idea, IMO. Again, if you want to do some damage in PvP... lol
I have just made a huge mistake. All along I thought I was looking at a Devotion build. Haha.
Luckily, I checked everything again before I hit 30. So I guess its time to try the Immortal Protection.
Anyway, I saw on others forums that you said that Prot OP are gear dependent. So I was thinking what I should focus on when leveling. Do I get Def/Deflect? Power? Crit?
Also, I have noticed that some Prot Pallies recieve 0 damage in PvP. Is it a bug?
If I said that, it's important to note the concept... I believe my comments are focused on when a Protection OP can focus a bit more on DPS then defensive stats as their abilities/armor/boons gives them enough defensive capabilities that they can turn their focus to contributing to directly killing the bad guys.
I believe this happens around 2500-3k item level. Again, just my opinion, but I noticed around 3k I could survive almost everything in PvE at that point and switched to contributing towards DPS for the party (while also maintaining my protection capabilities for them!) in Dungeon runs.
Hope that helps!
I'd say for leveling, for the most part, whatever you want really... Feel free to experiment. Level 60-70 is the real leveling challenge, but with the recent tweaks to that by the Devs, it shouldn't be all that hard. Honestly, leveling an OP was a breeze overall. You have enough healing/protection not to die that often, and you will eventually kill the bad guys. lol
Could it be? Sure. Could it be a combination of any number of factors? Sure.
Honestly, no idea... Sorry!
And thanks again for the wonderful guide!
And thanks again for the wonderful guide!
No problem bud, happy to help!
Only question i don't see listed is: What artifact powers are you rolling with on your wep/shield?
Hope that helps!
He then used the extra feat points so he can max out the feats that increase the effectiveness of con and cha in t4.
The feat points, I think I can handle, though I won't be quite as effective as he is with CON, but I suppose the fact that I'll wind up with an equal CON before getting a CON belt or one of those artifact belts with CON on it will mitigate that somewhat.
I think race doesn't matter so much, I'm just tired of seeing dragonborn n wanna run around in something pretty.
Edit - my question is vague. Just wondering if you recommend any specific powers, or feat changes, for those of us new to 70 and the much harder content.
We'll just have to wait and see!
seems like shielding strike - even on justice when dueling other good geared paladins with TPF it looks smth like this - 0 0 0 0 0 0 5 0 0 0 0 0 70 0 0 0 0... prot has more options to reducing damage
Would you recommend going straight to recovery rings for a new level 70 or stick with the regeneration ones you had originally? Also for a new level 70, should I go for the "dps" build you have updated or stick more with the survivability of the original with a lot of points in constitution and HP boons? (For a new 70, I will have full alliance assault, gemmed rings and pants)
Awesome guide! Thanks for all the hard work you put in!
Ok, so since I couldn't find an answer to this question and I am trying out my own variations of protection paladin as well as testing other players....I have to ask, what lead you to drop Aura gifts in favour of more of the justice feats?
Vell Crowe
Vell Crowe's Soulbinder Damnation SW build
Prism causes too much lag in raid-sized groups, like Dragonflight. So don't use it.
Shielding strike is the way to go. That shield is way better than the hard taunt.
same with most of the bulwark tree that you can get in a justice build. unflinching resolve is nice, stand your ground is questionable ( i find im fairly mobile), martyrs blood doesnt mean much at permabubble, sanctity and to my side.....
holy resurgence can make sense w/ prism + bg. or in pvp when you're trying to avoid being cc'd
the top line is where all the good recharge feats are. so pretty much a given.
bound by light is highly usefull in pve. stem the tide has its place in pvp since you cant have a companion its the only place it really makes any sense. and prism + bg can do some damage while blocking and/or if you're near a healer.
the only thing i'd change from @kolatmaster's build is swap bacon of hope for holy resurgence or unflinching resolve.
Firstly, you want to have about 1 second leeway for casting it before the timer expires, so I am going to say you need to reduce its cool down to 7 seconds, not 8, to become completely invulnerable:
Now, lets look at the Justice capstone, which reduces your cooldowns 0.35 of the cooldown on the label. This means, that you actually need to reduce binding oath's cooldown to 7*100/65=10.769 before you are completely invulnerable. However, because of NWO's rounding, you realistically need to reduce the cooldown to 10 seconds, in order to become invulnerable (which means 10 seconds or less).
To reduce the cooldown to 10 seconds, you need a recharge speed increase of:
22/10 = 2.2 or, to put it in other terms, an additional 120%
So, is it theoretically possible to achieve that recharge speed off your own characters?
Aura of wisdom: 25% recharge speed increase (you now need 95% bonus)
6% bonus from feats: (you now need 89% bonus)
max int roll (12)+7 points from levelling+4 from int belt = 23-10 = 13% (you now need a 82% bonus)
2% bonus from book imp (you now need a 80% bonus)
Now, lets look at recovery, firstly off your companion (Augment for simplicity):
80*200 = 16000 recovery
3 offense slots*700 =2.1k recovery
852*3 = 2556 recovery (from recovery companion gear)
3x offense slot on companion + arcane runestones, rank 12 = 2.1k
2100+2100+2556 = 6756 recovery
6756*1.15 = 7769.4 (from legendary bonus)
16000-7769.4 = 8230.6 recovery (total remaining required)
Recovery off your own gear:
Remaining to acquire: 8230.6
7 offense slots *700 = 4.9k recovery (2MH+1OH+1Cloak+1Shirt+2Ring)
400 recovery from boons (not counting stronghold boons)
2270 from recovery from 4 piece gear.
1221 from personalised stuff with recovery on it.
4000 recovery from mythic artifacts with recovery on them
596 recovery from owlbear belt + imperial cloak.
8230.6-4900-400-2270-1221-4000-596 = -5156.4 recovery, or 25% recharge speed
This means that firstly, 145% is the absolute roof (allowing for 9 second BO before justice capstone)) for recharge speed increase on paladin (there is absolutely no need for this much, but you know, if you wanted to, you could build for it) and that its possible to be completely immune to damage, if you were bored and wanted to. With heroism as a daily, you could deal with control immunity and then spam at wills to kill things, completely safe in the knowledge that your recharge speed increase makes you completely invulnerable.
and the main downside of a pure recovery build is frost chants.
I'm also guessing Dusk 2/4 and Drowcraft 2 for set bonuses are best?
Though I agree Dusk at a 2x/3x is good, and then whatever else you want really... 2x Dusk and 2x Drow is perfectly fine!
Came across this one, and wanted to give it a go. But I, for the very life of me, can not figure out what your starting ability scores are :). Would you mind posting them and the history please?