test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Control Wizard is too much, we want balance!

123457

Comments

  • k9madrushk9madrush Member Posts: 534 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2015
    shield should only absorb a moderate amount of HP no more no less.... if there are additives then you probably want CW to be a mothership again "CW should be fragile because being range having cc and 3 dodges is enough defensive tool your class is a cloth user why would they get same amount hp like a plate user from gears and have equal even worst more DR than a melee class (self explanatry HR not included). So drop the act the hypocrisy bcoz your fooling no one but yourself.
  • castethcasteth Member Posts: 102 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    So, a cw , in pvp scenario, with his def stat + tabbed broken shield have 25%+11=36%, you have 31% just with your def stat.
    So a cw must use his tab for that value right?
    How much is your dr in pvp scenario in the same situation?

    For same situation i intend your def + tab, otherwise is not correct.

    Regarding SS i already agreed that must be toned down, really to much damage from that.

    Even with a shield, Cw aren't wearing armor, they shouldn't have more defense than a tank, it's nonsense.
  • tholan#1688 tholan Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 204 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    k9madrush wrote: »
    shield should only absorb a moderate amount of HP no more no less.... if there are additives then you probably want CW to be a mothership again "CW should be fragile because being range having cc and 3 dodges is enough defensive tool your class is a cloth user why would they get same amount hp like a plate user from gears and have equal even worst more DR than a melee class (self explanatry HR not included). So drop the act the hypocrisy bcoz your fooling no one but yourself.

    Sorry mate, but from my point of view u are the mosrt hypocris here, u refuse to listen or read the suggestion that other made, u just ask for a nerf without suggest any solution or idea for "balance " a class.

    U have already showed to us in most of your post that u have problem in facing cw ,the totality of your example was incorrect , and showed that u really have some l2p issue vs cw .
    Continue to cry about cw shield but not gived any suggestion valid suggestion about a balance, u just have the attitude to say at everyone that dont agree with u "hypocris" this and that.
  • tholan#1688 tholan Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 204 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    casteth wrote: »
    Even with a shield, Cw aren't wearing armor, they shouldn't have more defense than a tank, it's nonsense.

    Same situation, same situation mate, a cw in the same situation will have 9% of dr, the gf 31%
  • castethcasteth Member Posts: 102 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    i dont know about their cooldown' shield, but i keep saying that even WITH a shield, magical class should NOT have better defense than a tank.

    We all agreed that Cw hit now a lil too hard, and im not talking about nerfing all the class, i mean that a magical class should not be able to tank more than a class which is made for.

    Again, like i said, cw actually is, with special build, the class who hit the harder, who can have the best defense, who got the longest range, the best control, and they got huge Hp amount ( of course they have less than a tank, but with better defense, it's kinda same finally )

    Tr was something like that in mod5, now Tr's are good ( this is my opinion)

    Like, in my mind, Cw in mod6 are stronger than Tr was in mod5. ( ppl wont agreed and i don't care, this is my opinion.)
  • k9madrushk9madrush Member Posts: 534 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2015
    casteth wrote: »
    i dont know about their cooldown' shield, but i keep saying that even WITH a shield, magical class should NOT have better defense than a tank.

    We all agreed that Cw hit now a lil too hard, and im not talking about nerfing all the class, i mean that a magical class should not be able to tank more than a class which is made for.

    Again, like i said, cw actually is, with special build, the class who hit the harder, who can have the best defense, who got the longest range, the best control, and they got huge Hp amount ( of course they have less than a tank, but with better defense, it's kinda same finally )

    Tr was something like that in mod5, now Tr's are good ( this is my opinion)

    Like, in my mind, Cw in mod6 are stronger than Tr was in mod5. ( ppl wont agreed and i don't care, this is my opinion.)

    Trs are naughty very very naught but it cant do what CW can do now TR is subpar even to a HR. Rogues once caught its dead plain and simple.
  • tholan#1688 tholan Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 204 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    casteth wrote: »
    i dont know about their cooldown' shield, but i keep saying that even WITH a shield, magical class should NOT have better defense than a tank.

    We all agreed that Cw hit now a lil too hard, and im not talking about nerfing all the class, i mean that a magical class should not be able to tank more than a class which is made for.

    Again, like i said, cw actually is, with special build, the class who hit the harder, who can have the best defense, who got the longest range, the best control, and they got huge Hp amount ( of course they have less than a tank, but with better defense, it's kinda same finally )

    Tr was something like that in mod5, now Tr's are good ( this is my opinion)

    Like, in my mind, Cw in mod6 are stronger than Tr was in mod5. ( ppl wont agreed and i don't care, this is my opinion.)

    Again, put them in the same situation, a cw with his shield up and his dr can't tank like a gf, at max the first hit that the cw take , but then no mate.
    A good cw can't hold a node vs 2 or 3 player ( same LI ) like a gf can do, even with his magical shield, 2 second and your done.
    A good GF with his shield up can do it for much more time, and is correct that it's in that way.

    Regarding the part of cw mod6 more strong of tr mod5, hem, ok, is your opinion, but , always in a 1 vs 1 situation, same IL, in a 1vs 1 the cw mod6 is viable, u can kill or be killed.
    Mod5 tr in a 1vs1 was near to be impossible, most of the time u was in 2 vs 1 , or 3 vs 1, for kill him, i dont think that is exactly the same..
  • djoffer1djoffer1 Member Posts: 404 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    casteth wrote: »
    ( a CONTROL WIZZARD is supposed to control, not to tank, not to 1 or 2 shots.)

    Casteth

    Enigma ( Tr )
    Le Déchu ( Op )
    Légion ( Gwf )

    Just gonna comment on this part, since this seems to be the general argument people make when they cry for nerfs to cw... Aside from the fact that the player handbook describes one way of controll as doing damage, Cryptic tried to go the way of control for cw, it was called the beginning of mod 4, the crying on these boards reached epic hights... So yeah the result now is that cw's have crappy control, that even if it lands it is gone in less that a second(unless u have really crappy tenacity) and yeah i would be happy to give up some damage for more controll in pvp(and move damage from storm spell over to our encounters), but yeah cryptic already went down that road once before...

    Also in general while this is a pvp board, nerfing the shield to much would totaly destroy the class ability to do dungeons, we are already struggling as it is...
  • k9madrushk9madrush Member Posts: 534 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2015
    Again, put them in the same situation, a cw with his shield up and his dr can't tank like a gf, at max the first hit that the cw take , but then no mate.
    A good cw can't hold a node vs 2 or 3 player ( same LI ) like a gf can do, even with his magical shield, 2 second and your done.
    A good GF with his shield up can do it for much more time, and is correct that it's in that way.

    Regarding the part of cw mod6 more strong of tr mod5, hem, ok, is your opinion, but , always in a 1 vs 1 situation, same IL, in a 1vs 1 the cw mod6 is viable, u can kill or be killed.
    Mod5 tr in a 1vs1 was near to be impossible, most of the time u was in 2 vs 1 , or 3 vs 1, for kill him, i dont think that is exactly the same..

    because CW isnt intend to hold and tank inside a node and since CW is the greatest striker (GWF should be) and worst combination a range CC class, first strategy is to bring the biggest cake(CW) down you people thought its squishy in a clash? are you not watching your being hit by the entire enemy team? if not 3 of them taking you down at once? drop the mod 5 TR issue its mod 6 now move on.

    Btw CW can heal for 5-12k and its spammable amazing is it not? a swiss knife.... cookie cutter class, CW beast of the best of both worlds PVE and PVP.
  • raistlinmajere00raistlinmajere00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 176 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Yeah we got that everyone love cw and cw is uber OP WAI. But at least fix that stupid bug that cw ignores pally's cc immunity. I'm just wondering are they that much in love with cw or just incompetent...
    image
  • k9madrushk9madrush Member Posts: 534 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2015
    Yeah we got that everyone love cw and cw is uber OP WAI. But at least fix that stupid bug that cw ignores pally's cc immunity. I'm just wondering are they that much in love with cw or just incompetent...

    they love cookie cutter hustle free feeling of a pro
  • djoffer1djoffer1 Member Posts: 404 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    k9madrush wrote: »
    they love cookie cutter hustle free feeling of a pro

    I just hard to take a TR whining about another class seriously in pvp...
  • k9madrushk9madrush Member Posts: 534 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2015
    djoffer1 wrote: »
    I just hard to take a TR whining about another class seriously in pvp...

    I have TR GWF HR and CW pick your poison
  • edited May 2015
    This content has been removed.
  • seventhpillarseventhpillar Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 216 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    macjae wrote: »
    And while you are stacking Defense to reach that value, the CW has to give up an encounter power.

    Wait... what? So that's unfair? Let me see.... 4 -1 = 3. In which still 3/3 (damage dealing) against other classes with natural low recharge speed based on recovery stacking and high INT + WIS. Not really sure what's your missing there bub. My very first toon is a CW and I still play him till this day. If we really want to be real about it, storm spell needs a nerf and bring back the real renegade, which really required skill to hit high DPS and not the proccy wizz zap zap bull****. I moved away on using him as a main since they moved to that BS couple of mods ago when they made renegade into a buff bot. Yes, renegade got better but still doesn't define what a renegade should be.
  • k9madrushk9madrush Member Posts: 534 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2015
    ohhhh now here comes a debate between a... hypocrite and a real honest CW. Nice gonna get some coolaid and popcorn this will be a good one #slurp
  • blackxxwolf3blackxxwolf3 Member Posts: 1,539 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Wait... what? So that's unfair? Let me see.... 4 -1 = 3. In which still 3/3 (damage dealing) against other classes with natural low recharge speed based on recovery stacking and high INT + WIS. Not really sure what's your missing there bub. My very first toon is a CW and I still play him till this day. If we really want to be real about it, storm spell needs a nerf and bring back the real renegade, which really required skill to hit high DPS and not the proccy wizz zap zap bull****. I moved away on using him as a main since they moved to that BS couple of mods ago when they made renegade into a buff bot. Yes, renegade got better but still doesn't define what a renegade should be.

    you got my support all the way.
  • greatweaponarmygreatweaponarmy Member Posts: 352 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Wait... what? So that's unfair? Let me see.... 4 -1 = 3. In which still 3/3 (damage dealing) against other classes with natural low recharge speed based on recovery stacking and high INT + WIS. Not really sure what's your missing there bub. My very first toon is a CW and I still play him till this day. If we really want to be real about it, storm spell needs a nerf and bring back the real renegade, which really required skill to hit high DPS and not the proccy wizz zap zap bull****. I moved away on using him as a main since they moved to that BS couple of mods ago when they made renegade into a buff bot. Yes, renegade got better but still doesn't define what a renegade should be.

    ren·e·gade
    ˈrenəˌɡād/
    noun
    1.
    a person who deserts and betrays an organization, country, or set of principles.
    synonyms: traitor, defector, deserter, turncoat, rebel, mutineer
    "he was denounced as a renegade"
    a person who behaves in a rebelliously unconventional manner.
    archaic
    a person who abandons religion; an apostate.
    synonyms: apostate, heretic, dissenter
    "a religious renegade"
    adjective


    adjective: renegade
    1.
    having treacherously changed allegiance.
    "a renegade bodyguard"
    synonyms: treacherous, traitorous, disloyal, treasonous, rebel, mutinous
    "renegade troops"




    What does Cryptic make a Renegade? A team buffer that helps his allies lmfao.

    The whole company should just become Comedians.
  • hypervoreianhypervoreian Member Posts: 1,036 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Shield on tab is a multiplier.But also a FLAT SEPARATE DR LAYER.
    80%/50%/25%.

    Can i prove it?ofcourse i can!!

    Log:(i changed the name of the CW,a hint though.He is a former 22k CW BiS CW with 9% Dr in mod6,nothing personal with him)

    ......CW Shield absorbs 3019 damage from your Lunging Strike. [Combat (Self)] CW Shield absorbs 49 damage from your Bronzewood Weapon. [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Lunging Strike deals 2232 (15875) Physical Damage to CW. [Combat (Self)] Your Bronzewood Weapon deals 36 (149) Arcane Damage to CW. [Combat (Self)] CW Shield absorbs 39 damage from your Bronzewood Weapon. [Combat (Self)] CW Shield absorbs 2171 damage from your Bull Charge. [Combat (Self)] Your Bronzewood Weapon deals 73 (163) Arcane Damage to CW. [Combat (Self)] Your Bull Charge deals 4032 (8988) Physical Damage to CW. [Combat (Self)] CW Shield absorbs 465 damage from your Tenebrous Power. [Combat (Self)] Your Tenebrous Power deals 864 (2359) Necrotic Damage to CW. [Combat (Self)] CW Shield absorbs 474 damage from your Flourish. [Combat (Self)] CW Shield absorbs 42 damage from your Bronzewood Weapon. [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Flourish deals 881 (3692) Physical Damage to CW. [Combat (Self)] Your Bronzewood Weapon deals 78 (189) Arcane Damage to CW. [Combat (Self)] CW Shield absorbs 173 damage from your Jagged Blades. [Combat (Self)] CW Shield absorbs 380 damage from your Flourish. [Combat (Self)] Your Jagged Blades deals 322 (1103) Physical Damage to CW. [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Flourish deals 706 (3687) Physical Damage to CW. [Combat (Self)] CW Shield absorbs 333 damage from your Flourish. [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Flourish deals 619 (3469) Physical Damage to CW. [Combat (Self)] CW Shield absorbs 327 damage from your Flourish. [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Flourish deals 608 (3536) Physical Damage to CW. [Combat (Self)] CW Shield absorbs 370 damage from your Flourish. [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Flourish deals 687 (3994) Physical Damage to CW. [Combat (Self)] CW Shield absorbs 344 damage from your Flourish. [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Flourish deals 638 (3712) Physical Damage to CW. [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! TR deals 1101 (3926) Poison Damage to you with Smoke Bomb. [Combat (Self)] CW Shield absorbs 272 damage from your Aggravating Strike. [Combat (Self)] CW Shield absorbs 12 damage from your Bronzewood Weapon. [Combat (Self)] CW Shield absorbs 189 damage from your Jagged Blades. [Combat (Self)] Your Aggravating Strike deals 505 (3515) Physical Damage to CW. [Combat (Self)] Your Bronzewood Weapon deals 22 (155) Arcane Damage to CW. [Combat (Self)] Your Jagged Blades deals 350 (1103) Physical Damage to CW......




    Ok let's evaluate these numbers please.Cw in question has 9% DR. With 80% /50%/25% multiplier the final Dr would be:

    Final DR after shield empowermend: 16.2%/ 13.5%/ 11.25%.
    How much tenacity would had?I make a safe bet.Around 40%.

    Let's take the first hit:

    Your Lunging Strike deals 2232 (15875) Physical Damage to CW.

    In that hit CW mitigated 86% of it!
    How is that possible?As you see in log no other event was registered.No thayan bastion no cold shoulder nothing.
    If shield would work as per tooltip Cw should had mitigated no more that 16,2% and then from that sum another 40% from tenacity.
    So the result would be:13303 after DR and then 7981 after tenacity.
    7981.According to WAI tooltips.yet the Cw only got 2232.How much is 2232 to 7981? 27.96%.

    So after WAI mechanisms the hit was mysteriously reduced by another 72%.Awfully clear to 80% don't you think?

    What is that 72%?Tenacity is calculated ,Dr is calculated.

    Let's take another hit,second, shield in 50%.

    Your Bronzewood Weapon deals 36 (149) Arcane Damage to CW
    Here mitigation is again 75.84%.

    If tooltip and shield was WAI he should get : (100-13,5%)=86.5% of the hit.
    X=(86.5x149):100=128.88~128. After 40% tenacity: (60x128)/100=76.8.

    if things were WAI or as CWs support CW should have taken 76.8 hit.How much he take?36.How much is 36 to 76.8?
    Near ~50%......Add tenacity more or less and here you have it.

    An additional DR layer at 80%/50%/ 25%.

    Verdict for who ever wants to see(except CWs ofcourse ) is crystal clear.

    PROVE ME WRONG : ) :) :P

    Edit:The CW in question was wearing the new BI rank4 tier armor i think so tenacity would be a litlle less than 40%.That makes almost perfect match with my calculations.
  • blackxxwolf3blackxxwolf3 Member Posts: 1,539 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    ^^^ this all the way proof!!!
  • graynotegraynote Member Posts: 29 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Control Wizard damage and shield should be reduced! they can kite and sustain damage from distance with cc and disent is OP!. NERF CW! The most imbalanced class there is!
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    as warlock i can´t complain about CW´s, but sure other classes have much more trouble
    my finger always points at TR in 1. place by far
    2. "Dazy-Hunter-Build" broken as hell
  • graynotegraynote Member Posts: 29 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    combine every OP way possible thats CW tons of cc same range as HR and wow CW can face tank any class even those with slight IL advantage! seriously 4 encounters with a execution from disent you cant even counter play a CW
  • edited May 2015
    This content has been removed.
  • k9madrushk9madrush Member Posts: 534 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2015
    graynote wrote: »
    combine every OP way possible thats CW tons of cc same range as HR and wow CW can face tank any class even those with slight IL advantage! seriously 4 encounters with a execution from disent you cant even counter play a CW

    Wow thats alot of frustration I HOPE THE DEVES KNOW ABOUT THIS GAME BREAKING CLASS. Im not enjoying the game either they made healers burst+tanky(DC & OP) and Strikers becomes healing tanks(CW) no matter how you complain if those people in charge of fixing and balance are playing broken class hahaha!
  • graynotegraynote Member Posts: 29 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    clonkyo1 wrote: »
    [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! CW-char deals 65555 (155093) Cold Damage to you with Ice Knife.

    Just saying...

    Thats OP CW should be nerf its #1 damager among all striker with 4 encounters same long range as a HR and tankier than a GWF.
    We want to nerf CW! its a broken class!
  • k9madrushk9madrush Member Posts: 534 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2015
    graynote wrote: »
    Thats OP CW should be nerf its #1 damager among all striker with 4 encounters same long range as a HR and tankier than a GWF.
    We want to nerf CW! its a broken class!

    haha! relax! dont be frustrated! Everyone know they are broken.
  • edited May 2015
    This content has been removed.
  • djoffer1djoffer1 Member Posts: 404 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    clonkyo1 wrote: »
    [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! CW-char deals 65555 (155093) Cold Damage to you with Ice Knife.

    Just saying...

    [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! TR-char deals 65553325 (1550234234) Physical Damage to you with Shocking Execution.

    Obv. Nerf TR based on this solid proof right here!
  • k9madrushk9madrush Member Posts: 534 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2015
    clonkyo1 wrote: »
    Fortunatelly for you, i just posted the damage from Icy Knife, dont want to check the damage from Storm Spell vs a GWF wearing tank set with 22% DR and G. Negation enchant...

    Also, i must add that that Icy Knife was on a 2v1 fight (i were alone vs 2 CWs contesting a node) and manage to kill 1 of them.

    wow amazing CW 2v1 and hold node now isnt it they should be on the back line? why are they on the frontlines tanking more than a GWF? isnt that OP?
This discussion has been closed.