This is because the CW community spends almost all of their time working with the devs and providing feedback to help make THEIR class better
HA HA HA
No.
The CW players spend all their time on the forums crying and whining about other classes having any sort of advantage over theirs until they're nerfed into the ground.
Q.E.D in this thread.
Also, please enlighten me what did the "CW community" do to get the single most overpowered and broken encounter power in the game with this update? If there is anyone who after this still thinks the devs aren't biased he should seek medical help.
I m reporting the same bugs since day one of preview about enchantments tr and hr feats not working as supposed and in some cases strongly underperforming, i pm'd panderus and gentlemancrush twice and so on.
They just dont read and or are interested to change things.
Cws are overperforming and will stay as they are for another 3 4 mods fo say the least.
I only thing it s left to do is complaining, abusing not fixed but reported milions times bugs than come here and complaining again.
And about cws reports... you are not stressing enough how much OP disintegrate is, lightning bug and the feats reducing artifact cooldown. But i know why, when these things happen to cws all is always wai.
0
ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited March 2015
Katbozejziemi, this is exactly what I'm talking about. Your locus on control is completely external. It's always the fault of someone else, right?
Disintegrate encounter is a monument of illogical development.Who in his right mind would give to the best dps class in the game ,an encounter with only 6 secs ICD!!! (!!) and 81k damage? That is non crit.Critted it can go as far as 140k damage.Thar is an autolock encounter that can be used from 90s range.
And all my CW friends ,sadly ,who came here to bash the Anti-CW sentiments,have not sais anything about such a blatantly broken encounter.
Disintegrate is a case study of CW community and its behaviour.Also it is a case study of devs' behaviour concerning CW class.
To clarify more: A Cw with feats and rotation with 100% crit on will be able to cast from a 90s range a ONE SHOTING encounter.
Misssed?No prob!!! In 6 secs(the longest) he has another opportunity.
Where is the CW community to reject this nonsense?Nowhere to be found? The damage/hp ration of a normal CW's Disintegrate is far worst then in a mod5 Bis TR Lashing Blade/HP.
Where is Ironzberg,Macjae ,Abaddon and all the serious Cw posters?
Nada.Nowhere to be found,all have their mouths shut.
I told to the other forumers that, if they don't stand against the CWs ,there is no hope.Yet they keep babysitting them.
To the point:
Shield needs a severe NERF.Ah sorry it is against the TOS.I meant "adjastment'
Disntegrate needs a 100% damage reduction.
Dodges should no provide a whole sec of immunity frame.
Cws should respect tenacity in total as every other class in the game.
Fighters should have thier CC nerfs reversed.Stuns should revert back to prones.
Flourish and GW should not have thier duration halved in pvp.One rule for all.No discriminnations against fighters please.
Fighters encounters should get an autolock JUST AS RANGED CLASSES ALREADY HAVE!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
These.
Rise up GWF/GFs and rst of the classes.Sws,HRs.Dcs.
Otherwise your pretty beloved rank10s toons will be toast in mod6 from rank5s CWs, while you jump from hotenow respan area trying to go in mid.
Rise up.
tl;dr If you want YOUR class to be better fight passionately to get your class BUFFED, not another class NERFED
Ironzerg, I think you are a good player and great contributor to the community, but think about the situation this way:
You have a table that wobbles because one of the legs is longer than the others.
Do you: carefully shim up each of the 3 shorter legs, using trial and error to get them as long as the longer leg,
OR, do you just shave down the longer leg a bit so it matches the other ones?
CWs get so much dps from procs such as Storm Spell that it is easy to play a CW badly and still get Paingiver (I know, I don't care about Paingiver, but it is a metric we can see). A trade-off for their AoE dps was their limited effectiveness on boss fights, but now it seems Disintegrate will make them at least as good as SWs and HRs on boss fights, if not better.
I think if Storm Spell was toned down -- either by eliminating crits or just decreasing damage -- and Disintegrate carefully balanced for damage and/or cooldown, then the CW will still be an excellent choice in all situations, but not so likely to force the "3 CW/GF/DC" paradigm to return.
And I play 2 CWs, including a thematic arcane/lightning CW who is salivating for Disintegrate. I just want my GWF, HR and SWs to have a fair chance to get into groups, too.
SS is fine. it only happens on crits and only 30% of the time even then. yes EOTS but that's both your passives right there. or do you think cw should only get 1 passive now??
disintegrate sucks nards. nobody will ever use it, period. show me logs of it doing 140k please, it's nowhere near that. it was doing about 25k crits for me. the kill threshold is much lower than that (ie worthless). yes the cooldown is a bit short, it could be increased 1-2 seconds, but it really doesn't matter, it sucks either way and nobody will ever use it.
Why does a Control Wizard do so much damage anyway. My main is a cw and I alway's wondered why the word Control is even in their title. I can control mobs better on my tr or dc then a cw. Maybe if they take the word control out and put him as a striker and make the next class an actual control class and not a dps class, plenty of those now
Why does a Control Wizard do so much damage anyway. My main is a cw and I alway's wondered why the word Control is even in their title. I can control mobs better on my tr or dc then a cw.
Then you're Doing It Wrong.
Also, the CW is a sub-class of Wizard. And Wizards have DPS. Lots of it.
Finally - The D&D definition of Control includes AOE DPS.
This does not mean that the CW is balanced, BTW - just that you're asking the wrong questions.
Well were are not obviously not using D&D in this game other then the lore. No chance in the world for a Wizard of any type in D&D to facetank a mob. Or 1v1 with a fighter or tr in melee and come out on top? What I'm saying is take the word control out of the name so people don't actually think of AOE as control, if that was true, then you should just put Control in the title of almost all classes. Smoke bomb by far is the best AOE as far as control and DPS and duration, from stealth it also slows enemies.
What I'm saying is, what class is actually the control class? D&D rules are not even close to present in this game. Tr's can't hide in front of you, self heals should be <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, a mighty big list could be made.
0
aulduronMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,351Arc User
edited March 2015
No chance in the world for a Wizard of any type in D&D to facetank a mob. Or 1v1 with a fighter or tr in melee and come out on top
D&D wizards have plenty of spells to allow that.
0
ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
DM: The half-orc snarls as you enter the room. He is covered head to toe in thick plate armor, covered in wickedly jagged spikes. He's brandishing a great axe nearly as big as him. He towers over you, a virtual walking engine of destruction.
Your move...
Me: Ok. I cast "Hold Person". Save vs Will of 22.
DM: Huh. What. Wait...oh...ok. Um. 13. Failed.
Me: Ok, he's now held helpless. I walk over to him, pull out my dagger and slit his throat. End of encounter.
EDIT: Sorry. That's actually not how it goes down. After you cast "Hold Person" you ask the rogue or fighter in the group to perform the coup de grace so they feel like part of the team.
"Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
0
thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
DM: The half-orc snarls as you enter the room. He is covered head to toe in thick plate armor, covered in wickedly jagged spikes. He's brandishing a great axe nearly as big as him. He towers over you, a virtual walking engine of destruction.
Your move...
Me: Ok. I cast "Hold Person". Save vs Will of 22.
DM: Huh. What. Wait...oh...ok. Um. 13. Failed.
Me: Ok, he's now held helpless. I walk over to him, pull out my dagger and slit his throat. End of encounter.
Man...you left out all of the cool creative parts where the wizard casts time stop, followed by a few bigby's clenched fists, followed by an additional timestop, followed by a few summoning spells, ending off with the wizard getting out his lion throne (from who the hell knows where) and sitting down on it while he watches the chaos unfold
Man...you left out all of the cool creative parts where the wizard casts time stop, followed by a few bigby's clenched fists, followed by an additional timestop, followed by a few summoning spells, ending off with the wizard getting out his lion throne (from who the hell knows where) and sitting down on it while he watches the chaos unfold
They problem is, once you start showing off like that, you get nerfed
Fortunately in NW the lack of access to healing has been rectified by a capstone which has almost twice the range and 10x the power of the corresponding Cleric capstone. In fact Chaotic Growth is more powerful, when it procs that is, than any HoT a DC has access to.
[EDIT] Ran some numbers and it's actually not even close. With the boost to weapon damage CG will heal for 120k. Whereas a Bastion of Health transferred by Virtuous capstone to a HoT twice its amount in 12s is only ~60k
Fortunately in NW the lack of access to healing has been rectified by a capstone which has almost twice the range and 10x the power of the corresponding Cleric capstone. In fact Chaotic Growth is more powerful, when it procs that is, than any HoT a DC has access to.
And is completely unreliable and unpredicatable, therefore cannot be depended on. And, not all CWs spec renegade.
Fortunately in NW the lack of access to healing has been rectified by a capstone which has almost twice the range and 10x the power of the corresponding Cleric capstone. In fact Chaotic Growth is more powerful, when it procs that is, than any HoT a DC has access to.
Well the fact that Cw has insane damage or control/damage is actually not so much of an issue.
Its when they implement about same HP as tanks same ability to tank in form of shield/dodge/evation/ccs and add healing in form of chaos magic.
That a Cw can replace a tank in D&D table pen and paper game play is not very likely because he has like 1/3 of the hp and ac.
And my old GM (DM as it was back then) would not likely let the example above to happend if the Orc as a major enemy.
DM: The half-orc snarls as you enter the room. He is covered head to toe in thick plate armor, covered in wickedly jagged spikes. He's brandishing a great axe nearly as big as him. He towers over you, a virtual walking engine of destruction.
Your move...
Me: Ok. I cast "Hold Person". Save vs Will of 22.
DM: Ok he raises his axe and laughs at you calling you puny weak cloth woman.(Ring of free action or simular)
Me: Dam i hide behind the warrior while I fumble in my pocket for that componet to (insert whatever spell)....
And is completely unreliable and unpredicatable, therefore cannot be depended on. And, not all CWs spec renegade.
Not everyone choosing to use an ability that is there should never be an argument for anything. Be that as it may it wasn't my intention to ask for a change. Just to point out a peculiarity I find amusing.
0
aulduronMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,351Arc User
edited March 2015
Even in runs with no need to heal, I never come anywhere close to healing as much as a DC, who isn't even trying to heal. Even GWFs heal more during a run than my renegade
I do, however, agree that we should have the fewest HPs.
They problem is, once you start showing off like that, you get nerfed
My DM nerfed me Oh wait, I was the DM and nerfed the whole party
so what of it CW should not have that kind of healing in the 1st place.
This whole post reads like a bad novel.
The healing chaos magic will heal at maximum ~3000HP/0.5 Sec for 12 sec. WHEN IT PROCS. That's about 72K over 12 SECONDS. This isn't instant.
The ACT tables that were represented were level 60's scaled to 70. As soon as you hit level 61, the whole scale changes, as abbadon has said. Also, he was probably wearing HV which will dissapear shortly. So the damage readings, however a ccurate at level 60 will change the instant you hit 61 and the new sliding scale takes place. Go back at level 61 and try again and see how you do. Won't even be close.
CW's are not OP. My 18.8K DPS DC outperforms my 20K Renegade CW in both damage and healing.
*shakes head* I could say this is just a vent thread, but I'll be civil instead.
Toodles!
Varric the Cursed Dwarven cursed to be Tiefling CW Original Serenity Mostly Retired DC Tokarek Bearded Dwarven OP Tankadin JuiceHead Goofy Human GWF Member of H3llzWarriors and Limitless.
0
ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
The class names obviously imply something about what the classes are about. They're drawn from particular "builds" in 4th Edition D&D, where a control wizard is a build that focuses... on control.
FYI, page 16 lefthand column, first paragraph of the 4th Edition Players Handbook.
Controller (Wizard)
Controllers deal with large numbers of enemies at the same time. They favor offense over defense, using powers that deal damage to multiple foes at once, as well as subtler powers that weaken, confuse, or delay their foes.
In 4E, AOE damage is part of a controller's portfolio.
FYI, once you get to page 157, the 4th Edition PHB describes the differences between a Control Wizard build and a War Wizard build, which is what I was referring to.
Happy reading, nice to see that you are learning about the pen-and-paper version!
Please give me a War Wizard, dont know what it is but if it will stop all the crying i will take the name. Not directed at you but all the QQers.
FYI, once you get to page 157, the 4th Edition PHB describes the differences between a Control Wizard build and a War Wizard build, which is what I was referring to.
Happy reading, nice to see that you are learning about the pen-and-paper version!
Which use the exact same spells...to do damage AND control. Cheers!
Comments
No.
The CW players spend all their time on the forums crying and whining about other classes having any sort of advantage over theirs until they're nerfed into the ground.
Q.E.D in this thread.
Also, please enlighten me what did the "CW community" do to get the single most overpowered and broken encounter power in the game with this update? If there is anyone who after this still thinks the devs aren't biased he should seek medical help.
They just dont read and or are interested to change things.
Cws are overperforming and will stay as they are for another 3 4 mods fo say the least.
I only thing it s left to do is complaining, abusing not fixed but reported milions times bugs than come here and complaining again.
And about cws reports... you are not stressing enough how much OP disintegrate is, lightning bug and the feats reducing artifact cooldown. But i know why, when these things happen to cws all is always wai.
And you've seen how far that gets you.
And all my CW friends ,sadly ,who came here to bash the Anti-CW sentiments,have not sais anything about such a blatantly broken encounter.
Disintegrate is a case study of CW community and its behaviour.Also it is a case study of devs' behaviour concerning CW class.
To clarify more: A Cw with feats and rotation with 100% crit on will be able to cast from a 90s range a ONE SHOTING encounter.
Misssed?No prob!!! In 6 secs(the longest) he has another opportunity.
Where is the CW community to reject this nonsense?Nowhere to be found?
The damage/hp ration of a normal CW's Disintegrate is far worst then in a mod5 Bis TR Lashing Blade/HP.
Where is Ironzberg,Macjae ,Abaddon and all the serious Cw posters?
Nada.Nowhere to be found,all have their mouths shut.
I told to the other forumers that, if they don't stand against the CWs ,there is no hope.Yet they keep babysitting them.
To the point:
Shield needs a severe NERF.Ah sorry it is against the TOS.I meant "adjastment'
Disntegrate needs a 100% damage reduction.
Dodges should no provide a whole sec of immunity frame.
Cws should respect tenacity in total as every other class in the game.
Fighters should have thier CC nerfs reversed.Stuns should revert back to prones.
Flourish and GW should not have thier duration halved in pvp.One rule for all.No discriminnations against fighters please.
Fighters encounters should get an autolock JUST AS RANGED CLASSES ALREADY HAVE!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
These.
Rise up GWF/GFs and rst of the classes.Sws,HRs.Dcs.
Otherwise your pretty beloved rank10s toons will be toast in mod6 from rank5s CWs, while you jump from hotenow respan area trying to go in mid.
Rise up.
Don't let the broken CWs to go like this in mod6.
Attack the CWs now!!!! :P :P
Ironzerg, I think you are a good player and great contributor to the community, but think about the situation this way:
You have a table that wobbles because one of the legs is longer than the others.
Do you: carefully shim up each of the 3 shorter legs, using trial and error to get them as long as the longer leg,
OR, do you just shave down the longer leg a bit so it matches the other ones?
CWs get so much dps from procs such as Storm Spell that it is easy to play a CW badly and still get Paingiver (I know, I don't care about Paingiver, but it is a metric we can see). A trade-off for their AoE dps was their limited effectiveness on boss fights, but now it seems Disintegrate will make them at least as good as SWs and HRs on boss fights, if not better.
I think if Storm Spell was toned down -- either by eliminating crits or just decreasing damage -- and Disintegrate carefully balanced for damage and/or cooldown, then the CW will still be an excellent choice in all situations, but not so likely to force the "3 CW/GF/DC" paradigm to return.
And I play 2 CWs, including a thematic arcane/lightning CW who is salivating for Disintegrate. I just want my GWF, HR and SWs to have a fair chance to get into groups, too.
SS is fine. it only happens on crits and only 30% of the time even then. yes EOTS but that's both your passives right there. or do you think cw should only get 1 passive now??
disintegrate sucks nards. nobody will ever use it, period. show me logs of it doing 140k please, it's nowhere near that. it was doing about 25k crits for me. the kill threshold is much lower than that (ie worthless). yes the cooldown is a bit short, it could be increased 1-2 seconds, but it really doesn't matter, it sucks either way and nobody will ever use it.
mods pls lock and delete
Also, the CW is a sub-class of Wizard. And Wizards have DPS. Lots of it.
Finally - The D&D definition of Control includes AOE DPS.
This does not mean that the CW is balanced, BTW - just that you're asking the wrong questions.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
What I'm saying is, what class is actually the control class? D&D rules are not even close to present in this game. Tr's can't hide in front of you, self heals should be <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, a mighty big list could be made.
D&D wizards have plenty of spells to allow that.
DM: The half-orc snarls as you enter the room. He is covered head to toe in thick plate armor, covered in wickedly jagged spikes. He's brandishing a great axe nearly as big as him. He towers over you, a virtual walking engine of destruction.
Your move...
Me: Ok. I cast "Hold Person". Save vs Will of 22.
DM: Huh. What. Wait...oh...ok. Um. 13. Failed.
Me: Ok, he's now held helpless. I walk over to him, pull out my dagger and slit his throat. End of encounter.
EDIT: Sorry. That's actually not how it goes down. After you cast "Hold Person" you ask the rogue or fighter in the group to perform the coup de grace so they feel like part of the team.
Man...you left out all of the cool creative parts where the wizard casts time stop, followed by a few bigby's clenched fists, followed by an additional timestop, followed by a few summoning spells, ending off with the wizard getting out his lion throne (from who the hell knows where) and sitting down on it while he watches the chaos unfold
They problem is, once you start showing off like that, you get nerfed
[EDIT] Ran some numbers and it's actually not even close. With the boost to weapon damage CG will heal for 120k. Whereas a Bastion of Health transferred by Virtuous capstone to a HoT twice its amount in 12s is only ~60k
And is completely unreliable and unpredicatable, therefore cannot be depended on. And, not all CWs spec renegade.
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Well the fact that Cw has insane damage or control/damage is actually not so much of an issue.
Its when they implement about same HP as tanks same ability to tank in form of shield/dodge/evation/ccs and add healing in form of chaos magic.
That a Cw can replace a tank in D&D table pen and paper game play is not very likely because he has like 1/3 of the hp and ac.
And my old GM (DM as it was back then) would not likely let the example above to happend if the Orc as a major enemy.
DM: The half-orc snarls as you enter the room. He is covered head to toe in thick plate armor, covered in wickedly jagged spikes. He's brandishing a great axe nearly as big as him. He towers over you, a virtual walking engine of destruction.
Your move...
Me: Ok. I cast "Hold Person". Save vs Will of 22.
DM: Ok he raises his axe and laughs at you calling you puny weak cloth woman.(Ring of free action or simular)
Me: Dam i hide behind the warrior while I fumble in my pocket for that componet to (insert whatever spell)....
Not everyone choosing to use an ability that is there should never be an argument for anything. Be that as it may it wasn't my intention to ask for a change. Just to point out a peculiarity I find amusing.
I do, however, agree that we should have the fewest HPs.
My DM nerfed me
This whole post reads like a bad novel.
The healing chaos magic will heal at maximum ~3000HP/0.5 Sec for 12 sec. WHEN IT PROCS. That's about 72K over 12 SECONDS. This isn't instant.
The ACT tables that were represented were level 60's scaled to 70. As soon as you hit level 61, the whole scale changes, as abbadon has said. Also, he was probably wearing HV which will dissapear shortly. So the damage readings, however a ccurate at level 60 will change the instant you hit 61 and the new sliding scale takes place. Go back at level 61 and try again and see how you do. Won't even be close.
CW's are not OP. My 18.8K DPS DC outperforms my 20K Renegade CW in both damage and healing.
*shakes head* I could say this is just a vent thread, but I'll be civil instead.
Toodles!
Original Serenity Mostly Retired DC
Tokarek Bearded Dwarven OP Tankadin
JuiceHead Goofy Human GWF
Member of H3llzWarriors and Limitless.
FYI, page 16 lefthand column, first paragraph of the 4th Edition Players Handbook.
In 4E, AOE damage is part of a controller's portfolio.
Please give me a War Wizard, dont know what it is but if it will stop all the crying i will take the name. Not directed at you but all the QQers.
*sigh very disappointed with devs
Which use the exact same spells...to do damage AND control. Cheers!