Solution 1 - Swap-able quick-bars, thereby making it easier to go from control to single target when needed.
Solution 2 - Adjust the content to be more friendly to multiple class types.
The issue remains the same as I've stated before however, unless you have a way to keep control in check so that you still need healers/tanks, it just won't happen. The second issue is with the AoE damage, it's not that CW's "shouldn't do tons of damage, it's that they deal too much as quoted above with things like storm spell.
Which then leads to:
Reduce Storm Spell's damage/remove the crits
Make more varied mobs/dungeons
I second this, I would love to see a quick way to swap powers, using autorun and hoping you get it done in time is just awful.
The devs seem to be in the process of doing this now, with the changes to lifesteal, I think it will be less common to see CWs rushing in like berserkers and depending on the 100% proc of LS to protect them from their overly bold tactics. I've run a few dungeons on preview and with increased CC resist of mobs, and the increased HP of even trash mobs, it becomes less efficient to let a single CW carry a group through a dungeon without the support of a tank and other classes. At least smokebomb will be ensured to last for the duration of the smoke, as steal time is almost a death sentence for all the aggro it brings vs the time it lasts.
Last time I checked it was some CW thread but nice to see TTs usage too.
You come here and tell this as the armor set loss would be all CWs fault.
High Vizier, High Prophet, Knight Captain and other great party buff sets are out of the game too! Boss fights, Tiamat will be much harder and I am sorry but Accoursed Diabolist is nothing but a selfish self dps set and noone will miss other than dps centered SWs.
Btw you can nerf wish CWs all you want then HRs, GWFs and TRs will be outdps you at the end of the day!
Commander Data and HMS Point have passed by in the darkness...
The entire point of this is to illustrate that.
a) SW being nerfed when it is basically an underpowered class with one performant combo (Fury + AD set + TT + dreadtheft) that can do... well, what it was intended to as it is a striker class meant to deal high damage, implies that there is a clear double meter going on - CW is a primary controller secondary striker, yet it can outperform most SW builds except fury in terms of damage, yet it doesn't get nerfed.
Also, I love the description "selfish dps centered SW" - because of course all our class should be running temptation to heal your CW ***, right.
b) It also shows the extent of present CW powers in context, which is all that matters. Arguments for them being reasonable could be made in the absence of comparisons to other classes, but once you bring that in.... It's the same with TRs in PvP.
You can see it in this thread, with people spewing tired old bull**** about "you think we got power for free? We chose feats and gear and powers cleverly" when it is painfully clear they are only able to do so because the class offers such possibilities, when others lack them, and as you can see above, from yet others, they get taken away with prejudice , providing hardly anything in return.
To sum up what ironzerg has been saying, if I may be so bold, is that many good control wizards DO focus controlling as much as they can. But with alternating rooms of mobs that have CC resist, its INEFFICIENT to switch your entire spellbar just to deal with a couple CC immune elites every other room. Its much easier to make your AoE CCs actually hit hard, which is why CWs focus on being primary dps and secondary control, instead of vice versa. I think we all agree that there is a content issue that needs to be addressed.
Those elits are usualy in pack with trash, and to counter those CC immune targets CW should need company of other class (tr, gwf etc). Could you understand that? 1 class shouldnt do every thing best with 1 skill compsition. We need more synergy between classes. In solo pve, with lesser versions, those mobs should give you difficulities. Thats there reason for them to exist. No more easy mode for CWs.
You guys have to understand. Almost every one have CW (me included, and i have MoF, SS is cheating for me and its still easy), we know how its played. We know how easy it is.
Those elits are usualy in pack with trash, and to counter those CC immune targets CW should need company of other class (tr, gwf etc). Could you understand that? 1 class shouldnt do every thing best with 1 skill compsition. We need more synergy between classes. In solo pve, with lesser versions, those mobs should give you difficulities. Thats there reason for them to exist. No more easy mode for CWs.
You guys have to understand. Almost every one have CW (me included, and i have MoF, SS is cheating for me and its still easy), we know how its played. We know how easy it is.
And yes, I totally agree. If you would read the post I wrote not 2 posts above yours, I stated:
The devs seem to be in the process of doing this now, with the changes to lifesteal, I think it will be less common to see CWs rushing in like berserkers and depending on the 100% proc of LS to protect them from their overly bold tactics. I've run a few dungeons on preview and with increased CC resist of mobs, and the increased HP of even trash mobs, it becomes less efficient to let a single CW carry a group through a dungeon without the support of a tank and other classes. At least smokebomb will be ensured to last for the duration of the smoke, as steal time is almost a death sentence for all the aggro it brings vs the time it lasts.
Next module, you won't see CWs rushing in and slaying packs of mobs all by their lonesome because even having trash mob aggro is a death sentence for a lone adventurer.
....Next module, you won't see CWs rushing in and slaying packs of mobs all by their lonesome because even having trash mob aggro is a death sentence for a lone adventurer.
Same gameplay as Mod1-to 5. I see no difference except the GF is not viable anymore to run KV due to very high damage ,
and Gf is oneshotted cause he must fight the adds in close range.And he has not an encounter to absorb 80% of any damage every 6 secs....Nor teleport
Edit:Good avideo but really poor choise of music...
Same gameplay as Mod1-to 5. I see no difference except the GF is not viable anymore to run KV due to very high damage ,
and Gf is oneshotted cause he must fight the adds in close range.And he has not an encounter to absorb 80% of any damage every 6 secs....Nor teleport
I'm talking about what a sole CW is capable of, not a pack of them. These CWs are working to chain their CCs, and what they are doing on preview as 4 is possible on live with only one. CWs do this well, so it seems reasonable that with teamwork CWs were able to clear this. Really though, the solution to every problem shouldn't have to be "sprinkle more CWs to taste".
0
zekethesinnerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 805Arc User
Putting that aside. Looks like first run in this dungeon for him (i mean he dont know what is w8ing form him witch each encounter), im not saying it should stay like it is, but imo, its gwf and gf what should get buffed, which mobs hitting for 100k, we need to go back to 50% DR at least, thats the problem, now gf can run with max 25-30% DR, thats rly bad. Not saying about wasted potential of Fighter Recovery (where is guarded assult?!). And again, imo those cws r not doing this run easyer (funny, dont u think?) 1 or 2 good cw would make same job (i dont have l70 cw so i cant say much, but it feels like MoF with his daily would do much better than them with OF).
I'm talking about what a sole CW is capable of, not a pack of them. These CWs are working to chain their CCs, and what they are doing on preview as 4 is possible on live with only one. CWs do this well, so it seems reasonable that with teamwork CWs were able to clear this. Really though, the solution to every problem shouldn't have to be "sprinkle more CWs to taste".
^^^
Agreed.But was not the goal of the devs to bring more synergy in gameplay?
Did not changed regen so "tanks cannot negate a need for a healer anymore"? That was a drastic and straight nerf to Tanks survivability.Two classes were nerfed in order to bring more synergy to gameplay.
Bearing in mid this,Devs reworked the dungeons and its dynamics.However the end result is stacking more CWs, tanks are oneshotted,while 4 CWs clear most of the time the dungeon.
Could a group of four GWfs do this?Could a group of 4 SWs do this?could a group of 4 HRs do this?
I think not.
Honestly I see again a problem that devs try to solve since at least late mod1 i started to play.Mod6 and the problem is not solved.
Devs try hard to round the corners around the problem,to rework the classes ,to differentiate the dungeon design.Is not so complicated really.
The solution is simple ,always it was.And is painfully clear for anyone to see.Just some people do not want to see anymore.
As long they leave one class ,able to do everything the problem remains.And as problem remains more people flock to this class.And as more people flock to this class ,and the player base-customers ,is more and more comprised of this class ,is more difficult to take the straight and right decision.Catch 22 situation.
Why?There is a saying. "You cannot make an omellette ,if you do not break the eggs".
That is the problem.Devs do not want to break the eggs .
The egg has a name.Control Wizard class.
Putting that aside. Looks like first run in this dungeon for him (i mean he dont know what is w8ing form him witch each encounter), im not saying it should stay like it is, but imo, its gwf and gf what should get buffed, which mobs hitting for 100k, we need to go back to 50% DR at least, thats the problem, now gf can run with max 25-30% DR, thats rly bad. Not saying about wasted potential of Fighter Recovery (where is guarded assult?!). And again, imo those cws r not doing this run easyer (funny, dont u think?) 1 or 2 good cw would make same job (i dont have l70 cw so i cant say much, but it feels like MoF with his daily would do much better than them with OF).
Tho boss fights r ridiculous.
(Sin)cerely
Kain
^^^
It is a matter of defense and hp.AC should bring more defense bonuses.CON should give more bonus.
Tanks should not have just 15% more hp and same defence with a cloth wearing class.(With Shiled on tab ,that cloth wearing class is significantly tankeir than the game's secondary tank class and on par with the main tank)
Same gameplay as Mod1-to 5. I see no difference except the GF is not viable anymore to run KV due to very high damage ,
and Gf is oneshotted cause he must fight the adds in close range.And he has not an encounter to absorb 80% of any damage every 6 secs....Nor teleport
Edit:Good avideo but really poor choise of music...
These videos illustrate that the devs were good at their word. Mod 6 would ensure that HEALERS were necessary. It was our own fault that we assumed that those healers were to be DCs or the new OP. The healers that will be needed in all dungeons will obviously be Renegade CWs.
I wonder how long before my Righteous DC will not be able to get into any pug run in mod 6. Oh well, I could always use the hard disk space.
I'm talking about what a sole CW is capable of, not a pack of them. These CWs are working to chain their CCs, and what they are doing on preview as 4 is possible on live with only one. CWs do this well, so it seems reasonable that with teamwork CWs were able to clear this. Really though, the solution to every problem shouldn't have to be "sprinkle more CWs to taste".
yes, to make the game less stupidy to a single class devs kill 3 or 4.
balance
but the solution is BRING CW TO THE GENERAL LEVEL. in a "crazy scenario" cw should DIE like others. if cw do the same (pack or alone) in a crazy scenario, my god, cw is a crazy class. or no?
2+2=4
ps: now i listening the music. "NO MORE LIES" (and the bruce vibratto). simbolic, hahaha.
Renegade CW can not stop party members from being one-shotted.
But a faithful DC may be able to prevent a one-shot.
DC break-the-spirit will be useful in boss fights to keep tank alive.
May want to use astral shield too.
Renegade CW can not stop party members from being one-shotted.
But a faithful DC may be able to prevent a one-shot.
DC break-the-spirit will be useful in boss fights to keep tank alive.
May want to use astral shield too.
why you will change one cw to a dc to previne gf to be oneshoted IF YOU CAN PUT OTHER CW IN GF PLACE AND FINISH ALL THE PROBLEMS?
Renegade CW can not stop party members from being one-shotted.
But a faithful DC may be able to prevent a one-shot.
DC break-the-spirit will be useful in boss fights to keep tank alive.
May want to use astral shield too.
or as shown in the video, bring 5 cws or 4 cws and a dc and call it a day.
look those buffs stacking !
or as shown in the video, bring 5 cws or 4 cws and a dc and call it a day.
look those buffs stacking !
The video shows that a healer/protector are needed for boss fights.
The tank would have died less with a good DC in the party.
Cryptic could give more HP to tanks but that could cause balance issues in pvp.
The video shows that a healer/protector are needed for boss fights.
The tank would have died less with a good DC in the party.
Cryptic could give more HP to tanks but that could cause balance issues in pvp.
the hypothesis cws are overperforming is impossible?
Show video of 5 CW who can kill boss in lvl 70 dungeons.
i dont have a video to 4 gfs and one cw. so... cw=gf?
i dont see the point. cw dont should tank equal or more than a fighter, AND HEAL and have a massive damage. the end. wtf you are try prove? how much you can be dishonest in internet?
This video shows that, after GF is dead, 4 CW can not kill the first boss.
If 4 CW can not kill the first boss, then do you seriously believe 5 CW is a good strategy?
i dont have a video to 4 gfs and one cw. so... cw=gf?
i dont see the point. cw dont should tank equal or more than a fighter, AND HEAL and have a massive damage. the end. wtf you are try prove? how much you can be dishonest in internet?
I am trying to prove that either you did not watch the two dailymotion videos, or you do not understand what you watched.
Point is ...
you are very mistaken to think that 5 CW is a good strategy.
4 CW is not a good strategy.
The video proves that 4CW + GF is a bad strategy.
Solution is not to remove GF and add another CW. Solution is to remove CW and add healer/protector.
Do you still seriously think 5 CW is good strategy for dungeons?
Comments
I second this, I would love to see a quick way to swap powers, using autorun and hoping you get it done in time is just awful.
The devs seem to be in the process of doing this now, with the changes to lifesteal, I think it will be less common to see CWs rushing in like berserkers and depending on the 100% proc of LS to protect them from their overly bold tactics. I've run a few dungeons on preview and with increased CC resist of mobs, and the increased HP of even trash mobs, it becomes less efficient to let a single CW carry a group through a dungeon without the support of a tank and other classes. At least smokebomb will be ensured to last for the duration of the smoke, as steal time is almost a death sentence for all the aggro it brings vs the time it lasts.
Commander Data and HMS Point have passed by in the darkness...
The entire point of this is to illustrate that.
a) SW being nerfed when it is basically an underpowered class with one performant combo (Fury + AD set + TT + dreadtheft) that can do... well, what it was intended to as it is a striker class meant to deal high damage, implies that there is a clear double meter going on - CW is a primary controller secondary striker, yet it can outperform most SW builds except fury in terms of damage, yet it doesn't get nerfed.
Also, I love the description "selfish dps centered SW" - because of course all our class should be running temptation to heal your CW ***, right.
b) It also shows the extent of present CW powers in context, which is all that matters. Arguments for them being reasonable could be made in the absence of comparisons to other classes, but once you bring that in.... It's the same with TRs in PvP.
You can see it in this thread, with people spewing tired old bull**** about "you think we got power for free? We chose feats and gear and powers cleverly" when it is painfully clear they are only able to do so because the class offers such possibilities, when others lack them, and as you can see above, from yet others, they get taken away with prejudice , providing hardly anything in return.
You guys have to understand. Almost every one have CW (me included, and i have MoF, SS is cheating for me and its still easy), we know how its played. We know how easy it is.
Steel and Magic
And yes, I totally agree. If you would read the post I wrote not 2 posts above yours, I stated:
Next module, you won't see CWs rushing in and slaying packs of mobs all by their lonesome because even having trash mob aggro is a death sentence for a lone adventurer.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2kziqz_gray-wolf-den-11
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2kzx32_gray-wolf-den-3
Same gameplay as Mod1-to 5. I see no difference except the GF is not viable anymore to run KV due to very high damage ,
and Gf is oneshotted cause he must fight the adds in close range.And he has not an encounter to absorb 80% of any damage every 6 secs....Nor teleport
Edit:Good avideo but really poor choise of music...
I'm talking about what a sole CW is capable of, not a pack of them. These CWs are working to chain their CCs, and what they are doing on preview as 4 is possible on live with only one. CWs do this well, so it seems reasonable that with teamwork CWs were able to clear this. Really though, the solution to every problem shouldn't have to be "sprinkle more CWs to taste".
U want to start a war, dont u? ^^'
Putting that aside. Looks like first run in this dungeon for him (i mean he dont know what is w8ing form him witch each encounter), im not saying it should stay like it is, but imo, its gwf and gf what should get buffed, which mobs hitting for 100k, we need to go back to 50% DR at least, thats the problem, now gf can run with max 25-30% DR, thats rly bad. Not saying about wasted potential of Fighter Recovery (where is guarded assult?!). And again, imo those cws r not doing this run easyer (funny, dont u think?) 1 or 2 good cw would make same job (i dont have l70 cw so i cant say much, but it feels like MoF with his daily would do much better than them with OF).
Tho boss fights r ridiculous.
(Sin)cerely
Kain
^^^
Agreed.But was not the goal of the devs to bring more synergy in gameplay?
Did not changed regen so "tanks cannot negate a need for a healer anymore"? That was a drastic and straight nerf to Tanks survivability.Two classes were nerfed in order to bring more synergy to gameplay.
Bearing in mid this,Devs reworked the dungeons and its dynamics.However the end result is stacking more CWs, tanks are oneshotted,while 4 CWs clear most of the time the dungeon.
Could a group of four GWfs do this?Could a group of 4 SWs do this?could a group of 4 HRs do this?
I think not.
Honestly I see again a problem that devs try to solve since at least late mod1 i started to play.Mod6 and the problem is not solved.
Devs try hard to round the corners around the problem,to rework the classes ,to differentiate the dungeon design.Is not so complicated really.
The solution is simple ,always it was.And is painfully clear for anyone to see.Just some people do not want to see anymore.
As long they leave one class ,able to do everything the problem remains.And as problem remains more people flock to this class.And as more people flock to this class ,and the player base-customers ,is more and more comprised of this class ,is more difficult to take the straight and right decision.Catch 22 situation.
Why?There is a saying. "You cannot make an omellette ,if you do not break the eggs".
That is the problem.Devs do not want to break the eggs .
The egg has a name.Control Wizard class.
^^^
It is a matter of defense and hp.AC should bring more defense bonuses.CON should give more bonus.
Tanks should not have just 15% more hp and same defence with a cloth wearing class.(With Shiled on tab ,that cloth wearing class is significantly tankeir than the game's secondary tank class and on par with the main tank)
These videos illustrate that the devs were good at their word. Mod 6 would ensure that HEALERS were necessary. It was our own fault that we assumed that those healers were to be DCs or the new OP. The healers that will be needed in all dungeons will obviously be Renegade CWs.
I wonder how long before my Righteous DC will not be able to get into any pug run in mod 6. Oh well, I could always use the hard disk space.
yes, to make the game less stupidy to a single class devs kill 3 or 4.
balance
but the solution is BRING CW TO THE GENERAL LEVEL. in a "crazy scenario" cw should DIE like others. if cw do the same (pack or alone) in a crazy scenario, my god, cw is a crazy class. or no?
2+2=4
ps: now i listening the music. "NO MORE LIES" (and the bruce vibratto). simbolic, hahaha.
It sounds better than du(m)bstep, though.
But a faithful DC may be able to prevent a one-shot.
DC break-the-spirit will be useful in boss fights to keep tank alive.
May want to use astral shield too.
why you will change one cw to a dc to previne gf to be oneshoted IF YOU CAN PUT OTHER CW IN GF PLACE AND FINISH ALL THE PROBLEMS?
look those buffs stacking !
-Tone down or remove chaotic growth
-tone down storm spell
-buff SW damage
Adding any buff to compensate wouldn't bring balance. We don't need to compensate something that's too powerful.
my last prediction: this game dont will see m7.
The video shows that a healer/protector are needed for boss fights.
The tank would have died less with a good DC in the party.
Cryptic could give more HP to tanks but that could cause balance issues in pvp.
the hypothesis cws are overperforming is impossible?
Show video of 5 CW who can kill boss in lvl 70 dungeons.
The hypothesis that you are attempting to create obfuscation is impossible??
i dont have a video to 4 gfs and one cw. so... cw=gf?
i dont see the point. cw dont should tank equal or more than a fighter, AND HEAL and have a massive damage. the end. wtf you are try prove? how much you can be dishonest in internet?
This video shows that, after GF is dead, 4 CW can not kill the first boss.
If 4 CW can not kill the first boss, then do you seriously believe 5 CW is a good strategy?
I am trying to prove that either you did not watch the two dailymotion videos, or you do not understand what you watched.
and why that change the fact that cw do MUCH MORE than should and fighters can not more tank just to cw can no longer solo some dungeons.
my god...
Point is ...
you are very mistaken to think that 5 CW is a good strategy.
4 CW is not a good strategy.
The video proves that 4CW + GF is a bad strategy.
Solution is not to remove GF and add another CW. Solution is to remove CW and add healer/protector.
Do you still seriously think 5 CW is good strategy for dungeons?
strategy, mimimi, blablabla; ARE 6 MODULES of the same class domain this game. this class is not even a main striker class.
6 modules of this HAMSTER. 6.