So with the changes to life steal and regen, it got me wondering, what's the method of surviving for warlocks now? Before mod 6, SW relied on their life steal to stay alive, every class has their mean of defensive capabilities to stay alive.
CWs got control and stuns
GWF got determination
GF can block
TRs got stealth and 75% deflect severity and some more I'm skipping
DCs got some healing abilities and defensive buffs
HRs I'm not very familiar with, my friends tell me they build really high life steal though so that would put them in the same boat as us
And finally, warlocks survival method was trough really high life steal. Since life steal is a really big nerf to our only method of survival (other classes can build it too on top of their other means of survival, reading CWs here especially). Will something be done for SWs to help them go trough the higher level content?
Will something be done about the temptation capstone feat since life steal changes? And what about Endless consumption, dread ring boon?
SW vs CW, what will differenciate us and make us desirable over our CW and DC brothers? Truthfully I had no problem running a train on anything I faced at level 60 with my warlock, at lv 60 I had 25% life steal, i felt completely immortal. But as I got higher level on preview things started changing. With the stat curves making it harder to achieve a good life steal score I started feeling the value of temptation go away and warlocks survival in general feels behind the other class I play, CW. I can stand in the center of things with my CW not giving a HAMSTER because I perma freeze them with the new opressor feats, and I still do enormous DPS. For having played both on preview the value of a CW in a group seemed to be alot higher than having a warlock in because they do the the same thing but better since temptation isn't as good as it was before. How can you keep a group alive if you life steal only 1 hit out of 8 or 10? That moment your party needs healing after a big blow, you could spend an entire minute dps'ing without a proc, who wants that kind of healer when a DC decides when they dish out their heals at the time the party needs it? So that leaves only DPS, and as far as DPS goes, wizards do it as well as us and they control on top of doing damage which makes the dungeons easier for groups.
So what will differenciate the warlock from the CWs and DCs, what will make people want us in a dungeon ?
Our pretty face xD or if they want to run the dungeon on a harder way, or if they want to run with 4 mem only, and when someone ask"but we cant queue with 4 mem only" then the lead say, no problem, let's call a warlock, it's same as nothing anyway.
shynterMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited February 2015
Feedback: Temptation spec I was under the impression that the temptation capstone made me a healer (and nothing during play opposed this notion aside from pvp). With the lifesteal changes this isn't the case anymore at which point this spec becomes something of an amusing oddity because you cannot have heals on an RNG. One unlucky string = Party wipe.
Suggestion:Make the capstone give you something like '10% of all damage is given to your party members, this amount is increads by 10%(or whatever) of your lifesteal severity. Not affecting themselves with it forces them to use the unreliable system you're putting in place, but still allows them to heal their party.
My feedback is mostly PVP focused since I have the most experience with it and it's where the class needs the most help. But I've added PVE feedback where I thought it was helpful.
Class Features
The following class features will become available at 60 points.
All-Consuming Curse - Your critical strikes now have a 33% chance to apply Lesser Curse. Rank: +33% Chance.
Underwhelming for PVP, ok for PVE. Lesser Curse does very little damage. If you're PVE you're probably Hellbringer so this would do less damage then No Pity No Mercy or Flames of Empowerment. In a fight like Tiamat it would be worth it for one person to use for the 5% debuff from Infernal Wrath. But that's pretty situational. For personal DPS it's worse then what's currently available, and for PVP if you're going the glass canon route you'll probably be dead before you can get much benefit from this. Even with new Infernal Wrath feat it's probably not worth taking over other class features since lesser curse can be applied in other ways (Infernal Spheres or Vengeful Curse). Change lesser curse to be able to stack 3-5 times on a target or just increase the dmg of lesser curse by 2-4x and this would then provide an interesting offense vs defense choice vs other class features.
Dark Prayers - While you are below 30% health you gain 5% Damage Resistance and 1% Life Steal. Rank: +2.5% Damage Resistance, +1% Life Steal
Everyone agrees SWs need more survivability. This is a step in the right direction, but doesn't go far enough. The dmg reduction and life steal needs to be at least 15% dmg reduction instead of 10%, and 5% life steal instead of 3%. Also noticed patch notes says when below 30% hp, on preview it's below 50%. 50% is much better, since once you're below 30% hp other classes get large damage boosts (Anvil of Doom, Shocking Ex, Killing Flames, etc) so the feat wouldn't help much when that low. So please keep it at 50%. I would also like to see these bonuses doubled if the SW is under the effects of any crowd control. So while under 50% HP and CC'd it would provide 30% dmg reduction and 10% life steal. Obviously while CC'd you won't be attacking at all to life steal, but it would give you an extra change for life steal procs off any dots you had on the target.
Feats
The following feats will become available after investing 10 paragon points into the corresponding tree. Feats previously available at 10 points have been moved to 15, those available at 15 have been moved to 20, and so on.
Fury:
A - Infernal Wrath - Your Lesser Curse also causes the target to have 1/2/3/4/5% less damage resistance.
Synergy with All-Consuming Curse, which is situationally good for PVE since it applies to the target, so everyone else in your party/raid would benefit. For PVP it's not very useful since you'll probably need to take defensive Class Features in order to survive. It would be nice if it applied with our Tab curse also and not just lesser curse so that more defensive minded SWs could still apply the debuff reliably without having to use All-Consuming Curse.
B - Helltouched - When a foe deals damage to you they become Helltouched for 10 seconds. Foes who are Helltouched take 2/4/6/8/10% more damage from you.
This skill is alright. I don't like that the SW has to take damage first to gain the benefit of this feat. But Fury is the glass canon tree, so it kind of fits that theme.
Damnation:
A - Mocking Spirit - Your Soul Puppet now deals 200/400/600/800/1000% more threat.
I've spent little time with Damnation because it's so bad. But from what I've seen, the pet is super squishy. So adding a taunt to it sounds like a bad idea in PVE, and would have zero effect in PVP. I would much rather see the pet slow targets it hits by 30% or something. This would allow the SW to maintain aggro in PVE, but allow them to kite mobs easier. Instead of the 1000% threat which will just get the pet 1 shot. The slow would also help Damnation attempt to kite melee in PVP. But with all the gap closers melee classes have and how slow the pets are it probably won't help much. But it would still be better then 1000% threat!
B - Spiritfire - Foes near your Soul Puppet now also take damage 10/20/30/40/50% of your Weapon Damage as damage every second.
If the above changes to Mocking Spirit went through, there would be some good synergy between it and Spiritfire. Any mob that got close to the pet would get hit with the Spiritfire aoe, and then get slowed by 30%.
Temptation:
A - Dark Revelry - When your Life Steal there is a chance to gain Revelry. Revelry increases the Move Speed and Power of nearby allies by 4/8/12/16/20% for 5 seconds.
I like this skill as long as the chance to proc is high enough to have close to 100% uptime at 70 with decent gear while free casting. Temptation is supposed to be a support tree with lots of mobility. And this skill fits well with that theme. The bright glowing animation on this ability is too much though. In PVP it's basically announcing to the other team that there's a free kill over here. Animation should be removed leaving only an audio queue on procs. Tempt locks don't need to light up like Christmas trees when dpsing. Also I haven't tested the the buff radius for teammates, but the buff radius needs to be around at will casting distance. As a squishy support class you can't just face tank everything, so would need the buff to be able to cover melee who are fighting on the node, while the SW is casting from range off node. If the proc radius is only 10-20 ft it won't be very useful.
B - Soul Breaker - When a foe dies within 30' of the Warlock, a random nearby ally gains 2/4/6/8/10% of their AP.
Decent trash clearing support skill for PVE, or for bosses with lots of adds, which hopefully we'll be seeing less of in the future. But its useless in PVP. Currently Temptation gives up the DPS of Fury to be able to support his team and provide light healing in PVP. But the buffs provided don't make up for the lack of DPS. I also believe that Tempt should be the tankiest of the 3 trees. So I would scrap this feat and replace it with something that provides survivability and support.
Soul Breaker Replacement Suggestion
Infernal Spheres is a good candidate for a buff. There are currently no feats that buff it, and mechanically it's a great defensive skill since it only damages people who choose to get very close to the SW. But currently it doesn't punish players enough for getting in melee range with the SW. They take a few thousand damage, which most classes just shrug off, and continue to charge forward and then stomp the SW. There needs to be more strategy in a melee vs SW exchange. The melee needs to think "hmmm, if I chase after that SW, I might lose" as opposed to now where they just run over and CC/kill the SW in a few seconds. Infernal Spheres should root the target for 1 second per sphere. This will give the SW some breathing room and maybe have time to get a spell off before being stun locked and killed. Since it's just a root and not a stun, most melee classes have some form of ranged attack (Threatening Rush, Daggers, Lunging Strike, etc) that work while rooted so melee could still counter it. It would just give the SW a fighting chance in those exchanges, where currently it has little to none. Also since Tempt party healing is really bad, and 1 sec roots aren't that useful for PVE, 100% of the damage done by Infernal Spheres could heal nearby allies.
Thank you for fixing the stu stu stu stutter .. it still happens every now and then but I cant pin down what causes it. However at least it's not every encounter which means I can for the most part move on with testing. Trying to get to 61 at the moment, paused to try Paladin and probably wont be pursuing that again.
BUG: Fury can still skip 3rd tier feats.
BUG: Dreadtheft cannot be upgraded to rank 4
Feedback: Infernal Wrath: 5% ? I understand it's lesser curse which combined with all-consuming-curse could be proccing all the d*mn time - but still.. it's a really small number for a third tier feat where ArP is already rumoured to be the only stat that ISNT heavily nerfed.
Feedback: Helltouched: On damage do 10% more damage to that target. Decent and better than the other feats you could get if you can skip the third tier. I thought about taking Vampiric sparks but for an extra 3.9% (at 30 sparks) to LIFESTEAL CHANCE... I felt the damage would be more useful.
Speaking to that issue: I understand the reasoning behind the stat changes and the idea that stats will require more points in to get more out - but many of the feats and boons are still tuned to the old stat curve and offer very underwhelming bonuses based on the new math. Things like campaign boons where you're getting a bonus of 200 to a stat (when you need like 5x more stat points at 61 compared to 60) 200 is a drop in the ocean.
HUNCH: During some play testing it appears I'm able to place more than one warlocks curse on the same target. This shows up as a lesser curse/warlocks curse combination when I havnt actually damaged the target yet. This seems to be causing the bazillion soul sparks. When I carefully only place one warlocks curse - i dont get the stuttering effect and soul sparks flying like Butterflies during migration...
Bedlam: Creating chaos as a MI Exec TR Avariel Merilwen: Burn baby, MoF/Rene Aejun The Silver: Devoted to Healing, DevOP/Justice Mina Rosepetal: Super Natural, Pathfinder/Melee Frost: Benchwarmer, Soulbinder/Fury
All-Consuming Curse Your Critical Strike now has a 33% chance to apply Lesser Curse . Rank 2 Chance +33% (total 66%) Rank3 Chance +34% (total 100%)Rank 4 (Chance+33%) (????)
Does Rank 4 give us a 33% chance to apply it with (NONcritical) or does it give us a 33% chance to apply curse (TWICE), or how do you want it to work ? I think 100% is a (sure thing) and I can't get how else would a 133% be any different from 100%
Infernal Wrath Should be a little different. Like giving target a debuff for 5 sec when lesser curse is applied, instead of making lesser curse being the debuff itself.If you use dredtheft on target it will consume a lesser curse before you even see that there was any curse, and dmg from lesser curse (or multiple curses) would be much bigger then a 5% dmg per one dmg tick on dreadtheft. As I said it should be debuff to get benefit for whole dredtheft in return of 6 sec channeling where you will deal zero dmg by lesser curses when they will be instantly removed by that skill.
All-Consuming Curse Your Critical Strike now has a 33% chance to apply Lesser Curse . Rank 2 Chance +33% (total 66%) Rank3 Chance +34% (total 100%)Rank 4 (Chance+33%) (????)
Does Rank 4 give us a 33% chance to apply it with (NONcritical) or does it give us a 33% chance to apply curse (TWICE), or how do you want it to work ? I think 100% is a (sure thing) and I can't get how else would a 133% be any different from 100%
.[/COLOR]
They will just nerf the % to 25% and then we need 4 points insteeed of 3 to get 100%, so pls dont argue about that.
They will just nerf the % to 25% and then we need 4 points insteeed of 3 to get 100%, so pls dont argue about that.
I dont see a reason why they should nerf it to 25% from 33% instead of giving it another effect for rank 4. If other skills/class/spells can have a dmg increase,duration increase,control increase,buff increase and such- then why would only this one have a (all ranks or no garanted proc) ? It's like telling other classes features to be rank 4 or bye.
BUG Dark Revelry:
Starts with 5 min duration and keep stacking a duration and dmg till I was doing a 1 dmg ( and instantly killing a dragon encounter with at-will for 1,260kk)
The rank 4 ability stats +33% chance to apply a lesser curse. However the first 3 ranks grant 100% making the 4th rank 133% chance. Which doesn't make sense
Bug: Dread theft 4th rank
Unable to purchase 4th rank of dreadtheft, states I must spend more points elsewhere first. However I did spend 65 points and I was able to buy other powers at 4th rank succesfully, but not dreadtheft.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Vampiric Embrace deals 65219 Necrotic Damage to Crab.
Idk what happened there.
I am the monk, martial skill transcends the battlefield
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
BUG Dark Revelry:
Starts with 5 min duration and keep stacking a duration and dmg till I was doing a 1 dmg ( and instantly killing a dragon encounter with at-will for 1,260kk)
wow thats one hell of a game breaking bug! reminds me of Temptation + Burning Radiance bug with SW pre Mod4 release
BUG: Multi-application of Warlocks curse on the same target eventually proc's a lesser curse which causes damage.
Confirmed on testing dummy. (working with testing dummies is extremely hard as they are in great demand -- unlocking IWD and DR would really help)
I managed to proc the multi-soulspark bug (it procced from curse bite which hit twice and obviously critt'd).. and let it run for a while. I cant see what's happening tho. No damage appears to be being done. The Warlocks curse (not lesser curse) is being refreshed somehow. It goes a way for a moment and then comes back. Soul sparks will lessen in quantity for a moment and then increase again. The animation stutters are *actual* soul sparks being given.
This is all the factual data i can provide - I tried monitoring this with ACT and I still didnt see any patterns giving clues.
[COLOR="#800000"][Combat (Other)] Kurumi deals 2000 Fire Damage to Target Dummy with Hellfire.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Lesser Curse deals 4838872 Fire Damage to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Other)] Xulgos 1 deals 21 (21) Fire Damage to Target Dummy with Plague Fire Weapon.
[Combat (Other)] Xulgos 1 deals 2 (2) Fire Damage to Target Dummy with Plague Fire Weapon.
[Combat (Other)] Kurumi deals 2000 Fire Damage to Target Dummy with Hellfire.
[Combat (Other)] Kurumi deals 2000 Fire Damage to Target Dummy with Hellfire.
[Combat (Other)] Kurumi deals 2000 Fire Damage to Target Dummy with Hellfire.
[Combat (Other)] Kurumi deals 2000 Fire Damage to Target Dummy with Hellfire.
[Combat (Other)] Kurumi deals 2000 Fire Damage to Target Dummy with Hellfire.
[Combat (Other)] Kurumi deals 2000 Fire Damage to Target Dummy with Hellfire.
[Combat (Other)] Kurumi deals 2000 Fire Damage to Target Dummy with Hellfire.
[Combat (Other)] Olive's Midnight deals 67125 Fire Damage to Target Dummy with Eldritch Blast.
[/COLOR]
This happened while there.. the price of so many people using combat dummies but maybe it helps you in some way.. Since I was only using Essence defiler (at-will) it was Kurumi using Dark Revelry.
Please fix Dark Revelry soon. This "bonus" affected me for 12+ hours which was great for leveling but pretty much made testing irrelevant.
Bedlam: Creating chaos as a MI Exec TR Avariel Merilwen: Burn baby, MoF/Rene Aejun The Silver: Devoted to Healing, DevOP/Justice Mina Rosepetal: Super Natural, Pathfinder/Melee Frost: Benchwarmer, Soulbinder/Fury
BUG: Multi-application of Warlocks curse (on the same target). At some point in the applications it is proccing a lesser curse which causes damage and exponentially works through the feats associated.
Confirmed on testing dummy.
are you using the Passive Feat which adds a Damage proc to applying Curse by chance?
Bedlam: Creating chaos as a MI Exec TR Avariel Merilwen: Burn baby, MoF/Rene Aejun The Silver: Devoted to Healing, DevOP/Justice Mina Rosepetal: Super Natural, Pathfinder/Melee Frost: Benchwarmer, Soulbinder/Fury
I dont see a reason why they should nerf it to 25% from 33% instead of giving it another effect for rank 4. If other skills/class/spells can have a dmg increase,duration increase,control increase,buff increase and such- then why would only this one have a (all ranks or no garanted proc) ? It's like telling other classes features to be rank 4 or bye.
BUG Dark Revelry:
Starts with 5 min duration and keep stacking a duration and dmg till I was doing a 1 dmg ( and instantly killing a dragon encounter with at-will for 1,260kk)
DEv's already stated thet they dont know what to do for warlocks now that ls is going to be nerfed. So how do you expect to them be able to think on something at r4 skill? They will just use the easy way, nerf it to 25%.
DEv's already stated thet they dont know what to do for warlocks now that ls is going to be nerfed. So how do you expect to them be able to think on something at r4 skill? They will just use the easy way, nerf it to 25%.
You must be a really SW hater, what did happen to you did some Sw took your cookie?
This class feature is a new as the new rank 4 which came in the same time. I don't get why would someone who is capable of programming a game would do such common error on creating a new skill. They wouldn't give it a 33% if they knew that there will be rank 4, and I don't believe that they didn't think it over.
Now please stop argue any of your though and just wait how will they fix this problem.This topic is to make suggestion and report bugs and you already posted 2 pointless messages and made me post one more. SO cya.
You must be a really SW hater, what did happen to you did some Sw took your cookie?
This class feature is a new as the new rank 4 which came in the same time. I don't get why would someone who is capable of programming a game would do such common error on creating a new skill. They wouldn't give it a 33% if they knew that there will be rank 4, and I don't believe that they didn't think it over.
Now please stop argue any of your though and just wait how will they fix this problem.This topic is to make suggestion and report bugs and you already posted 2 pointless messages and made me post one more. SO cya.
Actualy, my main char is a 20k SW, but, i just know how things works, and humans at all works the very same way, "if anything is complicated, find and get the easy way" Wich will be easier, lower % to 25% or add another function????
And since they have stated onlive stream that they do not know how to deal with warlock problem and if you realize the 61+ feats warlock got, you dont need to be a genius to understand that it's realy worst than the 60-. so you lv the ****ing thing to 70 and then skip the new feats because they are useless.
I still can't agree with you. If you can get extra 10% dmg/1sec daze/1sec buff/1sec duration on other features you should get it on those who give you % and not to nerf it to the way you need a 4th rank to get a 100% chance. With the way you talking about they should change a 1rank 10% dmg rank 3 10% dmg rank 4 10%dmg to a rank 3 (5% dmg) rank 4 (5% dmg) so this way it will give you no benefit and stay the same as it is if you have rank 4 . Still can't wait to see what will they do with a 100% crit chance from cw and tr
I still can't agree with you. If you can get extra 10% dmg/1sec daze/1sec buff/1sec duration on other features you should get it on those who give you % and not to nerf it to the way you need a 4th rank to get a 100% chance. With the way you talking about they should change a 1rank 10% dmg rank 3 10% dmg rank 4 10%dmg to a rank 3 (5% dmg) rank 4 (5% dmg) so this way it will give you no benefit and stay the same as it is if you have rank 4 . Still can't wait to see what will they do with a 100% crit chance from cw and tr
About TR's Devs already said on OP that it's where they want TR to be, so i won't expect any kind of nerf on them on this mod.
But one theng i know for sure, if SW community come to forum and then ask for buff on SW, we might get, but seens that the SW community don't realy care or dont know about the changes. I realy expected to be many SW's on this thread arguing, looking for better buffs/feats, but i think we won't see that untill the mod 6 hit live and then SW's comes to cry on forums, but them will be too late.
I'm here. I have spent at least 16-20 hours on Preview testing SW despite all the downtime it has had. The problem is - I'm happy with 100% lesser curse on crit. I think that's an awesome class feature. As a Fury Spec, three of my feats depend on the target being cursed. The more ways I can get lesser curses out and active - the better. I also feel this is in a perfect place on the leveling chart. Do I care if it's 33% or 25% - not really - as long as it stays. Would I much prefer the dev's devote time to fixing the soul spark bug - or the Dark Revelry bug than listening to us players argue about 8% and one power point? Sorry guys, but you're debate is counter-productive at the moment.
Instead of logging in for a quick look at your builds and what "christmas presents" you're going to get with mod 6 ... why not actually invest in the SW class and put a few hours (days) in on Preview and give some really constructive feedback on how those new features and feats work with your build and gear.
(edit: I'm actually going back to Live as until the next patch on Preview there's not much more I can do. I've finished the Drowned Shore quests up to level 62 and have given what info I can on bugs.)
Bedlam: Creating chaos as a MI Exec TR Avariel Merilwen: Burn baby, MoF/Rene Aejun The Silver: Devoted to Healing, DevOP/Justice Mina Rosepetal: Super Natural, Pathfinder/Melee Frost: Benchwarmer, Soulbinder/Fury
[All Consuming Curse:
For Damnation is feature is repetitive. The Burning Puppets feat already does this without relying on crit. This class feature will only seems to widen the gap between both paragon paths and the Fury/Damnation specs in dps output essentially making a unique spec feat a class feature available to all.
Dark Prayers:
For Soulbinders the feature seems repetitive. Between Borrowed Time, Dark One’s blessing,or Warding Curse there are a lot of options in the survivability category , as Damnation between already having Ghastly Commander Commander and Warding Spirits I am not sure if I would choose it.
Honestly I’d really like to see a Paragon Class Feature that allows for some retention of Sparks for x –rank amount of time outside of combat. It gets terribly annoying with pauses during fights like Tiamat or during skirmishes to have your sparks dissipate 2 seconds before the next phase begins.
Mocking Spirits:
Posted on this before, I just don’t think this is a good idea as currently implemented. I won’t be redundant reposting, but the feat just doesn’t appear to have strategic value.
[All Consuming Curse:
For Damnation is feature is repetitive. The Burning Puppets feat already does this without relying on crit. This class feature will only seems to widen the gap between both paragon paths and the Fury/Damnation specs in dps output essentially making a unique spec feat a class feature available to all.
Dark Prayers:
For Soulbinders the feature seems repetitive. Between Borrowed Time, Dark One’s blessing,or Warding Curse there are a lot of options in the survivability category , as Damnation between already having Ghastly Commander Commander and Warding Spirits I am not sure if I would choose it.
Honestly I’d really like to see a Paragon Class Feature that allows for some retention of Sparks for x –rank amount of time outside of combat. It gets terribly annoying with pauses during fights like Tiamat or during skirmishes to have your sparks dissipate 2 seconds before the next phase begins.
Mocking Spirits:
Posted on this before, I just don’t think this is a good idea as currently implemented. I won’t be redundant reposting, but the feat just doesn’t appear to have strategic value.
Your feedback ref All-consuming-curse: I agree this class feature really seems to cater to Fury spec. However, Damnation does have 2 feats that benefit from All-consuming-curse in Parting Blashpemy and Syphoning Curse. The more lesser curse you can have up - the more damage and healing you can get from them. Whether they come from crit or soul puppet shouldnt matter- the more the better.
I dont get hopeful of anything the dev's dont initiate - but IF I could ask for anything for SW ... it would definitely be what you suggested. Keep soul sparks after combat ends. This is HUGE. I would definitely give up the healing after combat ends to see my soul sparks continue to be retained for a certain amount of time (like rampaging madness). Soul sparks are an integral part of soulbinder build. They give damage, AP, and healing. The more I have, the more I benefit. Gaining 10 and losing them over and over means they are operating at a near 0 efficiency. They have so much potential but they often only make a serious impact when they are bugged (and your sparks max at 30 rapidly) or during a boss fight.
The problem I see with this is "borrowed time". If you have 30 soul sparks and keep them up indefinitely - you have (based on 40k HP) near 4k regen every 2 seconds. That's pretty OP. That's not based on stats lifesteal or Regen - that's flat bonus healing given from a class feature. IMO this is too much and would have to be changed. Other than that I cant see any really UBER bonus that soul sparks give at 30 sparks. From the Fury feat you would get a 9% damage boost, a decent amount of lifesteal *chance*, and when you finally lose the sparks a healthy 6k (also based on 40k hp) one-time healing bonus. The AP gain from dust-to-dust is negligible because of the last 3 ranks at .04 (plus i dont know how to find out exactly how much AP we have and how dust-to-dust even works)
(Addendum: My comments here reflect a PvE warlock standpoint with experience in temptation and fury. I know NOTHING about PvP with SW and very little with other classes)
Bedlam: Creating chaos as a MI Exec TR Avariel Merilwen: Burn baby, MoF/Rene Aejun The Silver: Devoted to Healing, DevOP/Justice Mina Rosepetal: Super Natural, Pathfinder/Melee Frost: Benchwarmer, Soulbinder/Fury
I'm here. I have spent at least 16-20 hours on Preview testing SW despite all the downtime it has had. The problem is - I'm happy with 100% lesser curse on crit. I think that's an awesome class feature. As a Fury Spec, three of my feats depend on the target being cursed. The more ways I can get lesser curses out and active - the better. I also feel this is in a perfect place on the leveling chart. Do I care if it's 33% or 25% - not really - as long as it stays. Would I much prefer the dev's devote time to fixing the soul spark bug - or the Dark Revelry bug than listening to us players argue about 8% and one power point? Sorry guys, but you're debate is counter-productive at the moment.
Instead of logging in for a quick look at your builds and what "christmas presents" you're going to get with mod 6 ... why not actually invest in the SW class and put a few hours (days) in on Preview and give some really constructive feedback on how those new features and feats work with your build and gear.
(edit: I'm actually going back to Live as until the next patch on Preview there's not much more I can do. I've finished the Drowned Shore quests up to level 62 and have given what info I can on bugs.)
don't worry, there's a lot more real testers than you think, ive got a couple guildies at 70 so im hoping to get mine there soon so we can do some true end game testing. unfortunately it i will be a while before I report real stats and real numbers as I think they are not updated on the gear sets yet.
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goldenregisMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 11Arc User
edited February 2015
So I managed to get a picture of the bug with dark revelry plus curse bite and a tyrannical threat
Considering the proposed Level 70 changes to SW and other classes:
Looks like dark clouds for level 70 SW in PvP..
A terrible Level 60 pvp class into worse than terrible Level 70 ((
Something major/fundamental needs changed for SW to be pvp competitive:
Major Shadow slip surivvability buff
Decrease cast time/animcation...
This is consensus of about every pvp-knowledgeable sw and even other class pvp player.
A small damage resist class power doesn't even come close for pvp.
Feedback: Ok, this is a giant black hand, much like Valindra/Dracolich... This really NEEDS to be Necrotic Damage. I mean it 100% should be, as Brood of Hadar is Necrotic Damage and the Valindra/Dracolich are undead so it's obviously Necrotic for them also!
The casting time is a tad long IMO, though it is a pretty **** good Encounter Power over all.
Necrotic Damage please, thanks! :cool:
Bug: The hand seems to miss many bad guys in the cone effect. Sometimes it hits things, but if they are moving it misses them most of the time... Really needs to be fixed, thanks!
PS - Really not sure how the Range is 29' and its a 45' Cone Effect, maybe that's the hitting issue? Either way, it needs to be resolved/clarified!
I was surprised that this is fire damage, it seemed to be necrotic at first glance (shadow hand rising from the ground?). It seems to me to fit better as the 'necrotic' type rather than fire.
I am the monk, martial skill transcends the battlefield
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
Transcendent (or any level of this Enchantment) Terror Enchantment, doesn't proc Creeping Death captsone still. At least from my testing, please fix this, thanks! :cool:
Dark Revelry - It appears the buff is being proc'ed on non-party allies nearby, which I guess is intended. But the affect of the buff is that anything that character then hits is instantly killed, in my character's case registering 1 point of damage. Also the buff does not give a time-limit and is lasting much longer than 5 seconds, over an hour and it's seeming like it's permanent at least until server restart/patch.
If you are playing a warlock on test with Dark Revelry spec'ed, please do not use it near other players.
The power seems to have two damage procs, one on initial summoning, then one on the rush forward. The initial summon proc is reading zero damage. This surely can not be WAI.
Also, the AoE of the power seems off, the actual enemies that get hit have to be virtually right in front in a straight line, completely inside the cone rather than partially in. This should be fixed. Casting time seems a bit much as well.
Feedback: Blades of Vanquished Armies
This power still cancels out on stuns, can we please get this fixed to be a persistent effect.
FeedBback: Arms of Hadar. This power seems fine, good damage, the cast time is a little to big, but i can live with that, what concern me is that it says on tooltip, it's devilish, but it's fire damage, so it's wrong, must be negrotic damage, fix that and we're fine.
Another suggestion is keep the cast time but make the SW control innume when casting it.
About SW lake of LS, why dont change the heroic feat, that increase LS, to raw ls?? maybe 3/6/9%?
Sorry for the bad english.
Comments
I was under the impression that the temptation capstone made me a healer (and nothing during play opposed this notion aside from pvp). With the lifesteal changes this isn't the case anymore at which point this spec becomes something of an amusing oddity because you cannot have heals on an RNG. One unlucky string = Party wipe.
Suggestion:Make the capstone give you something like '10% of all damage is given to your party members, this amount is increads by 10%(or whatever) of your lifesteal severity. Not affecting themselves with it forces them to use the unreliable system you're putting in place, but still allows them to heal their party.
Class Features
The following class features will become available at 60 points.
All-Consuming Curse - Your critical strikes now have a 33% chance to apply Lesser Curse. Rank: +33% Chance.
Underwhelming for PVP, ok for PVE. Lesser Curse does very little damage. If you're PVE you're probably Hellbringer so this would do less damage then No Pity No Mercy or Flames of Empowerment. In a fight like Tiamat it would be worth it for one person to use for the 5% debuff from Infernal Wrath. But that's pretty situational. For personal DPS it's worse then what's currently available, and for PVP if you're going the glass canon route you'll probably be dead before you can get much benefit from this. Even with new Infernal Wrath feat it's probably not worth taking over other class features since lesser curse can be applied in other ways (Infernal Spheres or Vengeful Curse). Change lesser curse to be able to stack 3-5 times on a target or just increase the dmg of lesser curse by 2-4x and this would then provide an interesting offense vs defense choice vs other class features.
Dark Prayers - While you are below 30% health you gain 5% Damage Resistance and 1% Life Steal. Rank: +2.5% Damage Resistance, +1% Life Steal
Everyone agrees SWs need more survivability. This is a step in the right direction, but doesn't go far enough. The dmg reduction and life steal needs to be at least 15% dmg reduction instead of 10%, and 5% life steal instead of 3%. Also noticed patch notes says when below 30% hp, on preview it's below 50%. 50% is much better, since once you're below 30% hp other classes get large damage boosts (Anvil of Doom, Shocking Ex, Killing Flames, etc) so the feat wouldn't help much when that low. So please keep it at 50%. I would also like to see these bonuses doubled if the SW is under the effects of any crowd control. So while under 50% HP and CC'd it would provide 30% dmg reduction and 10% life steal. Obviously while CC'd you won't be attacking at all to life steal, but it would give you an extra change for life steal procs off any dots you had on the target.
Feats
The following feats will become available after investing 10 paragon points into the corresponding tree. Feats previously available at 10 points have been moved to 15, those available at 15 have been moved to 20, and so on.
Fury:
A - Infernal Wrath - Your Lesser Curse also causes the target to have 1/2/3/4/5% less damage resistance.
Synergy with All-Consuming Curse, which is situationally good for PVE since it applies to the target, so everyone else in your party/raid would benefit. For PVP it's not very useful since you'll probably need to take defensive Class Features in order to survive. It would be nice if it applied with our Tab curse also and not just lesser curse so that more defensive minded SWs could still apply the debuff reliably without having to use All-Consuming Curse.
B - Helltouched - When a foe deals damage to you they become Helltouched for 10 seconds. Foes who are Helltouched take 2/4/6/8/10% more damage from you.
This skill is alright. I don't like that the SW has to take damage first to gain the benefit of this feat. But Fury is the glass canon tree, so it kind of fits that theme.
Damnation:
A - Mocking Spirit - Your Soul Puppet now deals 200/400/600/800/1000% more threat.
I've spent little time with Damnation because it's so bad. But from what I've seen, the pet is super squishy. So adding a taunt to it sounds like a bad idea in PVE, and would have zero effect in PVP. I would much rather see the pet slow targets it hits by 30% or something. This would allow the SW to maintain aggro in PVE, but allow them to kite mobs easier. Instead of the 1000% threat which will just get the pet 1 shot. The slow would also help Damnation attempt to kite melee in PVP. But with all the gap closers melee classes have and how slow the pets are it probably won't help much. But it would still be better then 1000% threat!
B - Spiritfire - Foes near your Soul Puppet now also take damage 10/20/30/40/50% of your Weapon Damage as damage every second.
If the above changes to Mocking Spirit went through, there would be some good synergy between it and Spiritfire. Any mob that got close to the pet would get hit with the Spiritfire aoe, and then get slowed by 30%.
Temptation:
A - Dark Revelry - When your Life Steal there is a chance to gain Revelry. Revelry increases the Move Speed and Power of nearby allies by 4/8/12/16/20% for 5 seconds.
I like this skill as long as the chance to proc is high enough to have close to 100% uptime at 70 with decent gear while free casting. Temptation is supposed to be a support tree with lots of mobility. And this skill fits well with that theme. The bright glowing animation on this ability is too much though. In PVP it's basically announcing to the other team that there's a free kill over here. Animation should be removed leaving only an audio queue on procs. Tempt locks don't need to light up like Christmas trees when dpsing. Also I haven't tested the the buff radius for teammates, but the buff radius needs to be around at will casting distance. As a squishy support class you can't just face tank everything, so would need the buff to be able to cover melee who are fighting on the node, while the SW is casting from range off node. If the proc radius is only 10-20 ft it won't be very useful.
B - Soul Breaker - When a foe dies within 30' of the Warlock, a random nearby ally gains 2/4/6/8/10% of their AP.
Decent trash clearing support skill for PVE, or for bosses with lots of adds, which hopefully we'll be seeing less of in the future. But its useless in PVP. Currently Temptation gives up the DPS of Fury to be able to support his team and provide light healing in PVP. But the buffs provided don't make up for the lack of DPS. I also believe that Tempt should be the tankiest of the 3 trees. So I would scrap this feat and replace it with something that provides survivability and support.
Soul Breaker Replacement Suggestion
Infernal Spheres is a good candidate for a buff. There are currently no feats that buff it, and mechanically it's a great defensive skill since it only damages people who choose to get very close to the SW. But currently it doesn't punish players enough for getting in melee range with the SW. They take a few thousand damage, which most classes just shrug off, and continue to charge forward and then stomp the SW. There needs to be more strategy in a melee vs SW exchange. The melee needs to think "hmmm, if I chase after that SW, I might lose" as opposed to now where they just run over and CC/kill the SW in a few seconds. Infernal Spheres should root the target for 1 second per sphere. This will give the SW some breathing room and maybe have time to get a spell off before being stun locked and killed. Since it's just a root and not a stun, most melee classes have some form of ranged attack (Threatening Rush, Daggers, Lunging Strike, etc) that work while rooted so melee could still counter it. It would just give the SW a fighting chance in those exchanges, where currently it has little to none. Also since Tempt party healing is really bad, and 1 sec roots aren't that useful for PVE, 100% of the damage done by Infernal Spheres could heal nearby allies.
BUG: Fury can still skip 3rd tier feats.
BUG: Dreadtheft cannot be upgraded to rank 4
Feedback: Infernal Wrath: 5% ? I understand it's lesser curse which combined with all-consuming-curse could be proccing all the d*mn time - but still.. it's a really small number for a third tier feat where ArP is already rumoured to be the only stat that ISNT heavily nerfed.
Feedback: Helltouched: On damage do 10% more damage to that target. Decent and better than the other feats you could get if you can skip the third tier. I thought about taking Vampiric sparks but for an extra 3.9% (at 30 sparks) to LIFESTEAL CHANCE... I felt the damage would be more useful.
Speaking to that issue: I understand the reasoning behind the stat changes and the idea that stats will require more points in to get more out - but many of the feats and boons are still tuned to the old stat curve and offer very underwhelming bonuses based on the new math. Things like campaign boons where you're getting a bonus of 200 to a stat (when you need like 5x more stat points at 61 compared to 60) 200 is a drop in the ocean.
HUNCH: During some play testing it appears I'm able to place more than one warlocks curse on the same target. This shows up as a lesser curse/warlocks curse combination when I havnt actually damaged the target yet. This seems to be causing the bazillion soul sparks. When I carefully only place one warlocks curse - i dont get the stuttering effect and soul sparks flying like Butterflies during migration...
Avariel Merilwen: Burn baby, MoF/Rene
Aejun The Silver: Devoted to Healing, DevOP/Justice
Mina Rosepetal: Super Natural, Pathfinder/Melee
Frost: Benchwarmer, Soulbinder/Fury
Your Critical Strike now has a 33% chance to apply Lesser Curse . Rank 2 Chance +33% (total 66%) Rank3 Chance +34% (total 100%) Rank 4 (Chance+33%) (????)
Does Rank 4 give us a 33% chance to apply it with (NONcritical) or does it give us a 33% chance to apply curse (TWICE), or how do you want it to work ? I think 100% is a (sure thing) and I can't get how else would a 133% be any different from 100%
Infernal Wrath
Should be a little different. Like giving target a debuff for 5 sec when lesser curse is applied, instead of making lesser curse being the debuff itself.If you use dredtheft on target it will consume a lesser curse before you even see that there was any curse, and dmg from lesser curse (or multiple curses) would be much bigger then a 5% dmg per one dmg tick on dreadtheft. As I said it should be debuff to get benefit for whole dredtheft in return of 6 sec channeling where you will deal zero dmg by lesser curses when they will be instantly removed by that skill.
They will just nerf the % to 25% and then we need 4 points insteeed of 3 to get 100%, so pls dont argue about that.
I dont see a reason why they should nerf it to 25% from 33% instead of giving it another effect for rank 4. If other skills/class/spells can have a dmg increase,duration increase,control increase,buff increase and such- then why would only this one have a (all ranks or no garanted proc) ? It's like telling other classes features to be rank 4 or bye.
BUG Dark Revelry:
Starts with 5 min duration and keep stacking a duration and dmg till I was doing a 1 dmg ( and instantly killing a dragon encounter with at-will for 1,260kk)
The rank 4 ability stats +33% chance to apply a lesser curse. However the first 3 ranks grant 100% making the 4th rank 133% chance. Which doesn't make sense
Bug: Dread theft 4th rank
Unable to purchase 4th rank of dreadtheft, states I must spend more points elsewhere first. However I did spend 65 points and I was able to buy other powers at 4th rank succesfully, but not dreadtheft.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Vampiric Embrace deals 65219 Necrotic Damage to Crab.
Idk what happened there.
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
More threads by me / Click on it
My Support Warlock/Temptation Thread
wow thats one hell of a game breaking bug! reminds me of Temptation + Burning Radiance bug with SW pre Mod4 release
Confirmed on testing dummy. (working with testing dummies is extremely hard as they are in great demand -- unlocking IWD and DR would really help)
I managed to proc the multi-soulspark bug (it procced from curse bite which hit twice and obviously critt'd).. and let it run for a while. I cant see what's happening tho. No damage appears to be being done. The Warlocks curse (not lesser curse) is being refreshed somehow. It goes a way for a moment and then comes back. Soul sparks will lessen in quantity for a moment and then increase again. The animation stutters are *actual* soul sparks being given.
This is all the factual data i can provide - I tried monitoring this with ACT and I still didnt see any patterns giving clues.
This happened while there.. the price of so many people using combat dummies but maybe it helps you in some way.. Since I was only using Essence defiler (at-will) it was Kurumi using Dark Revelry.
Please fix Dark Revelry soon. This "bonus" affected me for 12+ hours which was great for leveling but pretty much made testing irrelevant.
Avariel Merilwen: Burn baby, MoF/Rene
Aejun The Silver: Devoted to Healing, DevOP/Justice
Mina Rosepetal: Super Natural, Pathfinder/Melee
Frost: Benchwarmer, Soulbinder/Fury
are you using the Passive Feat which adds a Damage proc to applying Curse by chance?
Avariel Merilwen: Burn baby, MoF/Rene
Aejun The Silver: Devoted to Healing, DevOP/Justice
Mina Rosepetal: Super Natural, Pathfinder/Melee
Frost: Benchwarmer, Soulbinder/Fury
DEv's already stated thet they dont know what to do for warlocks now that ls is going to be nerfed. So how do you expect to them be able to think on something at r4 skill? They will just use the easy way, nerf it to 25%.
You must be a really SW hater, what did happen to you did some Sw took your cookie?
This class feature is a new as the new rank 4 which came in the same time. I don't get why would someone who is capable of programming a game would do such common error on creating a new skill. They wouldn't give it a 33% if they knew that there will be rank 4, and I don't believe that they didn't think it over.
Now please stop argue any of your though and just wait how will they fix this problem.This topic is to make suggestion and report bugs and you already posted 2 pointless messages and made me post one more. SO cya.
Actualy, my main char is a 20k SW, but, i just know how things works, and humans at all works the very same way, "if anything is complicated, find and get the easy way" Wich will be easier, lower % to 25% or add another function????
And since they have stated onlive stream that they do not know how to deal with warlock problem and if you realize the 61+ feats warlock got, you dont need to be a genius to understand that it's realy worst than the 60-. so you lv the ****ing thing to 70 and then skip the new feats because they are useless.
But one theng i know for sure, if SW community come to forum and then ask for buff on SW, we might get, but seens that the SW community don't realy care or dont know about the changes. I realy expected to be many SW's on this thread arguing, looking for better buffs/feats, but i think we won't see that untill the mod 6 hit live and then SW's comes to cry on forums, but them will be too late.
Instead of logging in for a quick look at your builds and what "christmas presents" you're going to get with mod 6 ... why not actually invest in the SW class and put a few hours (days) in on Preview and give some really constructive feedback on how those new features and feats work with your build and gear.
(edit: I'm actually going back to Live as until the next patch on Preview there's not much more I can do. I've finished the Drowned Shore quests up to level 62 and have given what info I can on bugs.)
Avariel Merilwen: Burn baby, MoF/Rene
Aejun The Silver: Devoted to Healing, DevOP/Justice
Mina Rosepetal: Super Natural, Pathfinder/Melee
Frost: Benchwarmer, Soulbinder/Fury
[All Consuming Curse:
For Damnation is feature is repetitive. The Burning Puppets feat already does this without relying on crit. This class feature will only seems to widen the gap between both paragon paths and the Fury/Damnation specs in dps output essentially making a unique spec feat a class feature available to all.
Dark Prayers:
For Soulbinders the feature seems repetitive. Between Borrowed Time, Dark One’s blessing,or Warding Curse there are a lot of options in the survivability category , as Damnation between already having Ghastly Commander Commander and Warding Spirits I am not sure if I would choose it.
Honestly I’d really like to see a Paragon Class Feature that allows for some retention of Sparks for x –rank amount of time outside of combat. It gets terribly annoying with pauses during fights like Tiamat or during skirmishes to have your sparks dissipate 2 seconds before the next phase begins.
Mocking Spirits:
Posted on this before, I just don’t think this is a good idea as currently implemented. I won’t be redundant reposting, but the feat just doesn’t appear to have strategic value.
Your feedback ref All-consuming-curse: I agree this class feature really seems to cater to Fury spec. However, Damnation does have 2 feats that benefit from All-consuming-curse in Parting Blashpemy and Syphoning Curse. The more lesser curse you can have up - the more damage and healing you can get from them. Whether they come from crit or soul puppet shouldnt matter- the more the better.
I dont get hopeful of anything the dev's dont initiate - but IF I could ask for anything for SW ... it would definitely be what you suggested. Keep soul sparks after combat ends. This is HUGE. I would definitely give up the healing after combat ends to see my soul sparks continue to be retained for a certain amount of time (like rampaging madness). Soul sparks are an integral part of soulbinder build. They give damage, AP, and healing. The more I have, the more I benefit. Gaining 10 and losing them over and over means they are operating at a near 0 efficiency. They have so much potential but they often only make a serious impact when they are bugged (and your sparks max at 30 rapidly) or during a boss fight.
The problem I see with this is "borrowed time". If you have 30 soul sparks and keep them up indefinitely - you have (based on 40k HP) near 4k regen every 2 seconds. That's pretty OP. That's not based on stats lifesteal or Regen - that's flat bonus healing given from a class feature. IMO this is too much and would have to be changed. Other than that I cant see any really UBER bonus that soul sparks give at 30 sparks. From the Fury feat you would get a 9% damage boost, a decent amount of lifesteal *chance*, and when you finally lose the sparks a healthy 6k (also based on 40k hp) one-time healing bonus. The AP gain from dust-to-dust is negligible because of the last 3 ranks at .04 (plus i dont know how to find out exactly how much AP we have and how dust-to-dust even works)
(Addendum: My comments here reflect a PvE warlock standpoint with experience in temptation and fury. I know NOTHING about PvP with SW and very little with other classes)
Avariel Merilwen: Burn baby, MoF/Rene
Aejun The Silver: Devoted to Healing, DevOP/Justice
Mina Rosepetal: Super Natural, Pathfinder/Melee
Frost: Benchwarmer, Soulbinder/Fury
don't worry, there's a lot more real testers than you think, ive got a couple guildies at 70 so im hoping to get mine there soon so we can do some true end game testing. unfortunately it i will be a while before I report real stats and real numbers as I think they are not updated on the gear sets yet.
So I managed to get a picture of the bug with dark revelry plus curse bite and a tyrannical threat
Looks like dark clouds for level 70 SW in PvP..
A terrible Level 60 pvp class into worse than terrible Level 70
Something major/fundamental needs changed for SW to be pvp competitive:
Major Shadow slip surivvability buff
Decrease cast time/animcation...
This is consensus of about every pvp-knowledgeable sw and even other class pvp player.
A small damage resist class power doesn't even come close for pvp.
Sopi SW Youtube channel pvp brickabrack
Feedback:
Ok, this is a giant black hand, much like Valindra/Dracolich... This really NEEDS to be Necrotic Damage. I mean it 100% should be, as Brood of Hadar is Necrotic Damage and the Valindra/Dracolich are undead so it's obviously Necrotic for them also!
The casting time is a tad long IMO, though it is a pretty **** good Encounter Power over all.
Necrotic Damage please, thanks! :cool:
Bug:
The hand seems to miss many bad guys in the cone effect. Sometimes it hits things, but if they are moving it misses them most of the time... Really needs to be fixed, thanks!
PS - Really not sure how the Range is 29' and its a 45' Cone Effect, maybe that's the hitting issue? Either way, it needs to be resolved/clarified!
I was surprised that this is fire damage, it seemed to be necrotic at first glance (shadow hand rising from the ground?). It seems to me to fit better as the 'necrotic' type rather than fire.
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
More threads by me / Click on it
My Support Warlock/Temptation Thread
Transcendent (or any level of this Enchantment) Terror Enchantment, doesn't proc Creeping Death captsone still. At least from my testing, please fix this, thanks! :cool:
Dark Revelry - It appears the buff is being proc'ed on non-party allies nearby, which I guess is intended. But the affect of the buff is that anything that character then hits is instantly killed, in my character's case registering 1 point of damage. Also the buff does not give a time-limit and is lasting much longer than 5 seconds, over an hour and it's seeming like it's permanent at least until server restart/patch.
If you are playing a warlock on test with Dark Revelry spec'ed, please do not use it near other players.
Okay, Panic.
The power seems to have two damage procs, one on initial summoning, then one on the rush forward. The initial summon proc is reading zero damage. This surely can not be WAI.
Also, the AoE of the power seems off, the actual enemies that get hit have to be virtually right in front in a straight line, completely inside the cone rather than partially in. This should be fixed. Casting time seems a bit much as well.
Feedback: Blades of Vanquished Armies
This power still cancels out on stuns, can we please get this fixed to be a persistent effect.
Gloom level 60 Control Wizard
Dusk level 60 Trickster Rogue
Dawn level 60 Devoted Cleric
Eclipse level 60 Hunter Ranger
Wrath level 60 Great Weapon Fighter
Jinx level 60 Scourge Warlock
This power seems fine, good damage, the cast time is a little to big, but i can live with that, what concern me is that it says on tooltip, it's devilish, but it's fire damage, so it's wrong, must be negrotic damage, fix that and we're fine.
Another suggestion is keep the cast time but make the SW control innume when casting it.
About SW lake of LS, why dont change the heroic feat, that increase LS, to raw ls?? maybe 3/6/9%?
Sorry for the bad english.