The 2 seconds stealth breaker is short but acceptable
Add to this daze effect 10 seconds cooldown on players once they've been expose
Lower some critical severity
And I’m sure we will get a difficult but near fair fight
And regarding hypocrisy there a question for all of you TR,
If daze is not a problem because you said, it does't last long or can’t be stack or it’s depends of the build, then why would it bothers you if it has a cooldown on player???
Everyone still remembers you whining and ranting in the feedback thread about how the new TR changes are stupid and it is going to break TRs, while the rest of us tried to explain how the new TRs are so greatly strengthened.
Can't you just crawl back into that abysmal pit you crawled out of from, and leave the serious discussion to other TRs who have more than half a brain?
you need attention? a lot of people hates you for being disrespectful... no one likes you create another account in forums and back yourself up
some of you here are hypocrites what you are asking is only good for you class and I know whats bad for TR is good for you so stop complaining too much and grow yourselves a brain go to dominion and I will mop the floor with your corpses because you dont think you just play and do the same strategy over and over :rolleyes: I apologies for killing so many of you in dominion sareeeh!
me? crab mentality? Im not crying out loud to nerf TR like you toddlers. lol! just lol! haha! butt hurts?
have fun guys I will be reading your comments and laugh at your stupidity in dominion I know some of you here that I killed over and over in the last 2 weeks see yah!
a little piece of advice start changing yourself before complaining ok?
And regarding hypocrisy there a question for all of you TR,
If daze is not a problem because you said, it does't last long or can’t be stack or it’s depends of the build, then why would it bothers you if it has a cooldown on player???
Because if something works OK without a 10s CD it would not work at all with a 10s CD. This isn't rocket science.
If you want a 10s CD on dazes I demand a 10s CD on all CW CC effects. That would only be fair and balanced, right?
If there is one overall OP class is would most definitely be a CW - I have played one to end game level, so I know that they are indeed more OP overall than a TR, or any other class.
CW's still out performing everything else in PVE?
CW Still out killing everything in PVP?
Answer to both of these is pretty self explanatory to anyone who has played different classes.
So please do explain to us why TR's should be change in all the ways you mentioned, and please do compare like for like damages for encounters / at wills. Please do compare like for like immunities (or lack thereof). Please do compare stuns/freezes/slows and dazes - and please note that saying CW is supposed to be OP is not an argument for changing another class.
I say again to you - go roll a TR, play a TR for a while and then come here and tell us all how to change them for a good fun balanced class
And please stop this incessant barrage of trying to kill off another classes features when you have no idea how they work - or at the very least keep your comments out of the TR forum and stick them in the CW one's. TR's will oblige but not reading / responding to your obvious misinformation
And regarding hypocrisy there a question for all of you TR,
If daze is not a problem because you said, it does't last long or can’t be stack or it’s depends of the build, then why would it bothers you if it has a cooldown on player???
Stuns are build specific btw, and while all TR's can cause some dazing, Scoundrels are the big culprits. Only their feat line allows the ridiculous amount of stuns going on, and most of that comes from the capstone. Speaking as a non-scoundrel, should all TR stuns need a CD added? I don't think so.
However I do think that stuns should act like (basically) all other control does in PvP and be halved on players. A free two - three sec daze with bonus damage against dazed targets for that length of time every 15 seconds is plenty powerful.
Stuns are build specific btw, and while all TR's can cause some dazing, Scoundrels are the big culprits. Only their feat line allows the ridiculous amount of stuns going on, and most of that comes from the capstone. Speaking as a non-scoundrel, should all TR stuns need a CD added? I don't think so.
However I do think that stuns should act like (basically) all other control does in PvP and be halved on players. A free two - three sec daze with bonus damage against dazed targets for that length of time every 15 seconds is plenty powerful.
Freeze time was cut and it has a cooldown on player and it was for a reason, because the other players were not able to fight
Freeze time was cut and it has a cooldown on player and it was for a reason, because the other players were not able to fight
the same should be done with TR daze ability.
Hey guys, remember in the old days when we'd run Smoke Bomb in PvP? Yea, no one gave a ****.
Now, Scoundrels get a free Daze from Gloaming Cut.
Gloaming. Cut. The skill that requires you to be in sight radius of the target and wind up your preying mantis style for 2 hours in order to hit the target.
What's worse, getting Perma-Dazed by someone good or getting Perma-Dazed because you have the reaction time of a desk?
Broken mechanics, broken class designs, lack of actual content, and over zealous, bronze-age moderation?
Freeze time was cut and it has a cooldown on player and it was for a reason, because the other players were not able to fight
the same should be done with TR daze ability.
Chill Stacks, are a side effect of various powers available to CW's and can be generated by an At-Will power that can be spammed indefinitely (among other things). It can also be further boosted by equipment to generate chill stacks more often. They are a specific feature of CW's only and not available to anybody else. In addition freezing a target prevents them from moving or retaliating in any way for the duration.
This may be further followed up with other control effects that do not clash with chilling effects while they are still frozen.
Stuns are the specific effect of multiple powers across different classes, of which TR's have access to three (Dazing Strike, Smoke Bomb and Shadow Strike (when used from stealth only)), They are not a side-effect of merely being a TR. You may still move while being stunned, and you cannot have further stunning effects applied to you until the duration is over.
For Scoundrels only, there are two feats that cause stunning (neither of which stack):
- Concussive Blows, which stuns for 0.2/0.4/0.6/0.8/1 second whenever you strike a foe with a Critical Strike or from behind. This already has its own 5 second CD, amounting to a 20% uptime.
- Skullcracker, which grants the TR Skullcracker every 15 seconds. While using Skullcracker, the next encounter power used will auto stun your target for 4 seconds. Continuing to attack them will extend the stun by 0.5 secs every strike, up to an additional 2 secs. Foes affected by Skullcracker also take 25% more damage from the TR.
This effectively amounts to an 11-9 second cooldown depending on whether followup attacks are used, or 26.7% - 40% uptime. Having a 10 second CD added to stuns will barely affect this power at all (reduces it to 26.7% - 37.5% uptime, woot), and it is the main cause of "insane TR stuns" that everyone complains about.
Half stun durations in PvP however, and suddenly concussive blows lasts for 0.5 seconds, and Skullcracker has an uptime of 13.3% - 20%.
you need attention? a lot of people hates you for being disrespectful... no one likes you create another account in forums and back yourself up
some of you here are hypocrites what you are asking is only good for you class and I know whats bad for TR is good for you so stop complaining too much and grow yourselves a brain go to dominion and I will mop the floor with your corpses because you dont think you just play and do the same strategy over and over :rolleyes: I apologies for killing so many of you in dominion sareeeh!
me? crab mentality? Im not crying out loud to nerf TR like you toddlers. lol! just lol! haha! butt hurts?
have fun guys I will be reading your comments and laugh at your stupidity in dominion I know some of you here that I killed over and over in the last 2 weeks see yah!
a little piece of advice start changing yourself before complaining ok?
Just stop there please. It's just hard to read the overconfident crab (pun intended) you are trying to imply. You had them before or after you had developed your pincers? Seriosly tho, posts like: i had your dog before you started to walk are simply laughable and embarasing. Nothing more than that.
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sn0wt0ri0usMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 21Arc User
Petitions are against the RoC. And they don't help anyway.
The stealth changes shouldn't affect your DPS vs CWs and HRs in any way.
Shadowy Opportunity was never intended to multi-proc on powers like Bloodbath. You can't ask to keep a broken ability.
tell me why then HR's are always able to use piercing blades? and yeah in PVE it will greatly reduce our damage, i love pve, They need to split PVE and PVP, stop "Balancing" both of them at the same time, its lazy... make changes for pvp only, and make powers do different things during each mode.
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sn0wt0ri0usMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 21Arc User
edited December 2014
Because i love Tr's so much, pre mod-5 and current, i hope that when/if they make these dumbass changes to stealth, that anyone who plays a rogue quits playing this game, mainly so that cryptic loses money, loses player base, and realizes that they need to stop nerfing classes, and begin buffing other classes. and also realize that people play pve and pvp..... stop listening ONLY to your PVP play base, its ridiculous, seeing as how you dont understand the difference between a pvp and a pve rogue, you guys obviously dont have the proper mentality to stop DICKING with our classes.
Chill Stacks, are a side effect of various powers available to CW's and can be generated by an At-Will power that can be spammed indefinitely (among other things). It can also be further boosted by equipment to generate chill stacks more often. They are a specific feature of CW's only and not available to anybody else. In addition freezing a target prevents them from moving or retaliating in any way for the duration.
This may be further followed up with other control effects that do not clash with chilling effects while they are still frozen.
Stuns are the specific effect of multiple powers across different classes, of which TR's have access to three (Dazing Strike, Smoke Bomb and Shadow Strike (when used from stealth only)), They are not a side-effect of merely being a TR. You may still move while being stunned, and you cannot have further stunning effects applied to you until the duration is over.
For Scoundrels only, there are two feats that cause stunning (neither of which stack):
- Concussive Blows, which stuns for 0.2/0.4/0.6/0.8/1 second whenever you strike a foe with a Critical Strike or from behind. This already has its own 5 second CD, amounting to a 20% uptime.
- Skullcracker, which grants the TR Skullcracker every 15 seconds. While using Skullcracker, the next encounter power used will auto stun your target for 4 seconds. Continuing to attack them will extend the stun by 0.5 secs every strike, up to an additional 2 secs. Foes affected by Skullcracker also take 25% more damage from the TR.
This effectively amounts to an 11-9 second cooldown depending on whether followup attacks are used, or 26.7% - 40% uptime. Having a 10 second CD added to stuns will barely affect this power at all (reduces it to 26.7% - 37.5% uptime, woot), and it is the main cause of "insane TR stuns" that everyone complains about.
Half stun durations in PvP however, and suddenly concussive blows lasts for 0.5 seconds, and Skullcracker has an uptime of 13.3% - 20%.
Cw applies chill effect up until you freeze. Freeze takes 2 to 6 seconds to apply (depending of feats, power and artefact) and last 2 to 4 seconds.
Once you’re frozen you can’t do a thing, but before getting frozen you have a minimum of 2 to 6 seconds to attack and parry. And if you’re not successful enough then you’re frozen. But you still made some damage before getting there or even killed the CW.
You can’t compare that to the instant daze effect. Right away you can’t do anything anymore; you can’t do any damages or else.
On top of that, daze effect can stack up with other feats and powers to a point you’re losing a fight with no chance to react and that’s nonsenses.
Daze has to be nerf and get a cooldown on player, so it won’t get to the point of passing 4 seconds max and after that no daze effect is working on the player affected for a couple of seconds.
Because i love Tr's so much, pre mod-5 and current, i hope that when/if they make these dumbass changes to stealth, that anyone who plays a rogue quits playing this game, mainly so that cryptic loses money, loses player base, and realizes that they need to stop nerfing classes, and begin buffing other classes. and also realize that people play pve and pvp..... stop listening ONLY to your PVP play base, its ridiculous, seeing as how you dont understand the difference between a pvp and a pve rogue, you guys obviously dont have the proper mentality to stop DICKING with our classes.
Go on test server and you'll see that you’re wrong at the moment TR is still winning big time even with the 2 seconds stealth brake.
Don't forget that only the player you it can see you for 2 seconds not the others.
Just stop there please. It's just hard to read the overconfident crab (pun intended) you are trying to imply. You had them before or after you had developed your pincers? Seriosly tho, posts like: i had your dog before you started to walk are simply laughable and embarasing. Nothing more than that.
*yawn... who are you? Did I killed you in dominion so many times that all you can do is nag and spit with your dirty mouth here in forums instead of playing and improving your dirty old <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>? Are you one of those whom I mop the floor with their corpses? your probably on my 2,409th kill thats why you hated TR this much?
@jarecsteph
why do you complain this much? dont you know how OP CWs? It can even solo Epic dungeons can burst any class anytime of the day in pvp, HR tab doesnt go on cooldown it has "6 encounters back2back" and pierce all day, DC can out heal damage, tanky and can kill you with dps.
Hypocrisy is everywhere people here complains a lot about other class why dont you clean your own toilet first before screaming and nagging at your neighbor?
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sn0wt0ri0usMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 21Arc User
*yawn... who are you? Did I killed you in dominion so many times that all you can do is nag and spit with your dirty mouth here in forums instead of playing and improving your dirty old <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>? Are you one of those whom I mop the floor with their corpses? your probably on my 2,409th kill thats why you hated TR this much?
@jarecsteph
why do you complain this much? dont you know how OP CWs? It can even solo Epic dungeons can burst any class anytime of the day in pvp, HR tab doesnt go on cooldown it has "6 encounters back2back" and pierce all day, DC can out heal damage, tanky and can kill you with dps.
Hypocrisy is everywhere people here complains a lot about other class why dont you clean your own toilet first before screaming and nagging at your neighbor?
God dammit i love you
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sn0wt0ri0usMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 21Arc User
To provide a little more context, we are generally happy with where rogues are currently falling in most cases, but we didn't see the increase in counterplay that we initially wanted from the changes to stealth and at wills in Module 5, partially because we decided we also wanted mid range rogues to be a much more viable build. Given the way players can currently interact with stealth (with enemies in melee range being revealed), this meant that making ranged rogues more viable had a negative impact on how players could interact with permastealth. However, our goal was not to eliminate stealth as an option that could be maintained, but make it more difficult to oppress an enemy without them fighting back. Given that we are investigating a couple options, but the one that I hope will be out and ready for testing sometime this week is as follows.
When you strike a player while stealthed they will be able to see you for 2 seconds. You are revealed only to the player you struck. Damage over time effects will only trigger this reveal on initial damage application at this time.
This still allows rogues to try and pick targets effectively, but once you have been targeted by a rogue you will have access to far more options than you did before (i.e. you can target them). As an added bonus, when you are struck by a rogue in stealth you are just becoming more keenly aware of stealth, and other stealthed rogues will become visible to you as well. Stealth damage bonuses and critical bonuses will still apply against targets who can see the rogue.
Your primary goal as a rogue in PVP who utilizes stealth fully will become something more of a "heat seeking missile" picking high priority targets to engage with in a forced 1 on 1 situation.
This change is in testing and is *NOT FINAL* as of this time. We are experimenting with several options based on our technical limitations with how stealth works and what will feel good to players without removing all the skill and playstyle surrounding stealth.
all of these things are dumb, stealth = defense, plain and simple, you want everyone to be able to see us? for what purpose? get rid of bait and switch, then perma wont be easy anymore, it will take skill to stay in stealth, no matter what you wont get rid of it, dont nerf stealth because of cry babies on forums, listen to the rogues why dont you? you arent giving any of us a chance and just going through with these decisions on your own thinking it will help other players, Stupid is Stupid, youre only putting us on a platter to the other skilled pvp players, any Decent PVP player with half a brain can fight a rogue in stealth, not to mention perma stealth. You are going to lose player base and this game will die in a year if you guys keep messing with classes like this, during the "playing with the devs" i noticed how unskilled These "Devs" were, especially the guy with golden hair and his GWF... Going into PVP with avatar of war? uhm OK? it goes to show you, that none of you truly play this game and understand how classes play against eachother, or that you even test out your changes... "OH HEY THIS CHANGE MIGHT STOP OUR HIGH PAYING CUSTOMERS FROM COMPLAINING ABOUT THESE ROGUES FOR KILLING THEM" have any of you asked the rogue forums on the PERMA FREEZE CW's.. i couldve sworn you guys took perma prone from GWF's for a reason, but you only gave it to cw's, but no, everyone plays a CW so you want the ones who spend $1000 plus to be happy, thank you for your unreasonable "bug fixes" "patches" "balances" dont ask the class who mains them or anything... its not like we are playing the game too right?
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sn0wt0ri0usMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 21Arc User
current TR can go stealth, attack, go back to stealth right away (META build)
GWF: takes 30% (roughly) of total HP as damage, enters unstoppable. After 8 seconds, back to normal
To compare you should be able to go stealth 8 seconds, then back to visible, take damage, then 8 more seconds of stealth.
TR right now has beast damage. I am 100% for increasing your tankiness even to Destroyer GWF levels, and change stealth to a 8 seconds shot every 30% of damage taken. Let's see how good you are when you actually have to dodge to survive.
Or increasing your tankiness to destroyer GWF levels or HR levels, but when you take damage you can't enter stealth again for 8 seconds.
TRs always complained about being squishy. Now, you have no rights to complain about DPS anymore in PvP, you've plenty enough and then some. If you want, you can have base GWF tankiness but fight out of stealth most of the time and have only 8 seconds stealth shots, linked to damage taken like unstoppable.
Let's see how you perform.
I find it funny how it is "i must be in stealth 99% of the time or i can't fight". Are you serious?
Actually start to fight like any other class do, attacking and THEN being vulnerable and dodging.
You want GWF tankiness? Get it. It's 100x times worse than perma or semi-perma stealth which allows you to not just mitigate damage but avoid it 100% all the time. I wanna see TRs actually fighting and not nuking people from safety of stealth.
Also: HR stealth is short and is a daily. It's not even close to perma or semi-perma stealth.
I say increase TR base tankiness, make them fight with short stealth bursts followed by periods of visibility.
Or limit stealth he same way Unstoppable is limited for GWFs. You can't stay Unstoppable always: it has a COST. Like stealth bar being depleted by damage DEALT, proportionally to how much damage you deal. SO big nukes/ damage= less stealth.
i like how your opinion of rogues is the nuking OHK lashing blade, you know not all rogues do that? at wills encounters and other **** take away our stealth, you do understand that our DPS comes from stealth? its not our fault this is the way the game is made, we dont do any damage out of stealth, so we dodge and stun and do other things while out of stealth. in ALL and i mean ALL of our feats, every damaging ability comes from stealth, so you want us to fight out of stealth? so that we cant kill you? why not just learn how to fight a rogue? i know so many gf's gwf's cw's hr's who can all hold their own ground and still destroy rogues, it just sounds like you want all classes to be the same. why even give rogues stealth if no one wants to play against a class who uses stealth, take the freaking rogue out of the game, stop complaining about rogues, OMG ONE SHOT OP, OMG PERMA OP, how about, omg perma freeze = cw, piercing blades all the time= HR, near-perma prone = GF/gwf, LIterally unkillable = DC, so go ahead and complain about rogues who can finally fight back, you didnt expect us to be a threat, but i mean hey, even though a CW specializes in AOE, while a rogue specializes in single target doesnt mean the rogue can kill the cw faster right?
I want CW encounters to be medium range, place casting time and increase stamina consumption of teleport how cool is that? I will make HR switching stances have 2 seconds cooldown and when hit it cant change stance that would be nice? I will make DC wear cloth armor because in real life doctors dont wear plate armor in hospitals that would be fair right? In what way do you want to be slapped and humiliated before you admit that what you are asking is selfish? I dont care about perma stealth I dont need it... I will kill all of you hypocrites in dominion and add another 2k in my kills with your names on it using any tree TR have no matter how much you whine here if you dont use your brain and build your toons right you are just trash. Losers in real life even here virtual imbeciles
With stealth reveal then TR can get that advan combat and 100%crit change
thing need to be nerf next is 75% deflc sev and roll dodge, daze
I wanna ask what kind of glory is there for TR user to dominate PvP if your class hold title as OP?
more nerf will come but it's okay TR can l2p just like how they ask for other class
*yawn... who are you? Did I killed you in dominion so many times that all you can do is nag and spit with your dirty mouth here in forums instead of playing and improving your dirty old <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>? Are you one of those whom I mop the floor with their corpses? your probably on my 2,409th kill thats why you hated TR this much?
@jarecsteph
why do you complain this much? dont you know how OP CWs? It can even solo Epic dungeons can burst any class anytime of the day in pvp, HR tab doesnt go on cooldown it has "6 encounters back2back" and pierce all day, DC can out heal damage, tanky and can kill you with dps.
Hypocrisy is everywhere people here complains a lot about other class why dont you clean your own toilet first before screaming and nagging at your neighbor?
Haha. First of all you missed with your premature assumptions by a moon to earth distance. It is funny how you try to impress to the forum members with overconfidence backed up by meaninigles numbers gained on some pug scrubs. Dude leave the sandbox and grow hairs where they should grow. It's not a kindergarden. Take your plastic shovel with ya mate! Now off you go.
CW can’t disappear or crit on stealth or be immune and so on...
we are SUPPOSED to control but you’re not supposed to be a CONTROL TR plus all the rest...
Scoundrel (the one with the dazes) is hardly ever in stealth so rarely receives the 100% crit chance. Unlike a Stormspell CW who gets 100% crit chance for a straight 6 seconds every time EotS procs - and it procs 100% of the time at the start of every fight. This means that a CW can unload his ENTIRE ROTATION with 100% crit chance whereas the TR gets 2-3 At-Wills or 1 encounter plus a daily if it's up.
So don't whine to me about 100% crit chance when you have that OP class feature.
Scoundrel (the one with the dazes) is hardly ever in stealth so rarely receives the 100% crit chance. Unlike a Stormspell CW who gets 100% crit chance for a straight 6 seconds every time EotS procs - and it procs 100% of the time at the start of every fight. This means that a CW can unload his ENTIRE ROTATION with 100% crit chance whereas the TR gets 2-3 At-Wills or 1 encounter plus a daily if it's up.
So don't whine to me about 100% crit chance when you have that OP class feature.
you forget 100% crit lead to tons of storm spell procs, which also crit.
Stuns are build specific btw, and while all TR's can cause some dazing, Scoundrels are the big culprits. Only their feat line allows the ridiculous amount of stuns going on, and most of that comes from the capstone.
Wrong. The capstone allows a MAXIMUM of 6s daze every 15 seconds to ONE target. Concussive Strikes provides the bulk of the shorter dazes IF the Scoundrel is built for high crit chance. And even that is just 2.5s every 5 seconds (50% uptime). So if a Scoundrel lucks out and chains a CS daze onto the end of a maximised SC daze he gets 8.5s daze and can't daze again for 5s. Not exactly permadaze and heavily reliant on crit chance.
The high duration of dazes comes from weaving Dazing Strike and Smokebomb into the rotation. Which all TRs have access to. In fact I've just been doing some testing on Preview specced as Executioner but using the same encounter loadout as my Scoundrel and in PvE I can still maintain daze for long periods.
tell me why then HR's are always able to use piercing blades? and yeah in PVE it will greatly reduce our damage, i love pve, They need to split PVE and PVP, stop "Balancing" both of them at the same time, its lazy... make changes for pvp only, and make powers do different things during each mode.
Piercing Blades is based on damage dealt and not a flat boost based on weapon damage. It gets mitigated at source by DR applied to the triggering damage. SO is completely unmitigated and procs the same amount of damage regardless of the damage dealt by the triggering strike. So powers which provide lots of small hits in a short space of time produce ridiculous amounts of unmitigated damage through SO.
Comments
And regarding hypocrisy there a question for all of you TR,
If daze is not a problem because you said, it does't last long or can’t be stack or it’s depends of the build, then why would it bothers you if it has a cooldown on player???
you need attention? a lot of people hates you for being disrespectful... no one likes you create another account in forums and back yourself up
some of you here are hypocrites what you are asking is only good for you class and I know whats bad for TR is good for you so stop complaining too much and grow yourselves a brain go to dominion and I will mop the floor with your corpses because you dont think you just play and do the same strategy over and over :rolleyes: I apologies for killing so many of you in dominion sareeeh!
me? crab mentality? Im not crying out loud to nerf TR like you toddlers. lol! just lol! haha! butt hurts?
have fun guys I will be reading your comments and laugh at your stupidity in dominion I know some of you here that I killed over and over in the last 2 weeks see yah!
a little piece of advice start changing yourself before complaining ok?
you dude have a good pusher.
i demand a 10 seconds immunity to cw control effect too
i m sure we will get a difficult but near fair fight
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
If you want a 10s CD on dazes I demand a 10s CD on all CW CC effects. That would only be fair and balanced, right?
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
We have a cooldown on freeze (because you all complained)
It’s exactly the same for daze it should have a cooldown on player
CW can’t disappear or crit on stealth or be immune and so on...
we are SUPPOSED to control but you’re not supposed to be a CONTROL TR plus all the rest...
If there is one overall OP class is would most definitely be a CW - I have played one to end game level, so I know that they are indeed more OP overall than a TR, or any other class.
CW's still out performing everything else in PVE?
CW Still out killing everything in PVP?
Answer to both of these is pretty self explanatory to anyone who has played different classes.
So please do explain to us why TR's should be change in all the ways you mentioned, and please do compare like for like damages for encounters / at wills. Please do compare like for like immunities (or lack thereof). Please do compare stuns/freezes/slows and dazes - and please note that saying CW is supposed to be OP is not an argument for changing another class.
I say again to you - go roll a TR, play a TR for a while and then come here and tell us all how to change them for a good fun balanced class
And please stop this incessant barrage of trying to kill off another classes features when you have no idea how they work - or at the very least keep your comments out of the TR forum and stick them in the CW one's. TR's will oblige but not reading / responding to your obvious misinformation
My warmest regards to you
Matthew
Stuns are build specific btw, and while all TR's can cause some dazing, Scoundrels are the big culprits. Only their feat line allows the ridiculous amount of stuns going on, and most of that comes from the capstone. Speaking as a non-scoundrel, should all TR stuns need a CD added? I don't think so.
However I do think that stuns should act like (basically) all other control does in PvP and be halved on players. A free two - three sec daze with bonus damage against dazed targets for that length of time every 15 seconds is plenty powerful.
Freeze time was cut and it has a cooldown on player and it was for a reason, because the other players were not able to fight
the same should be done with TR daze ability.
Hey guys, remember in the old days when we'd run Smoke Bomb in PvP? Yea, no one gave a ****.
Now, Scoundrels get a free Daze from Gloaming Cut.
Gloaming. Cut. The skill that requires you to be in sight radius of the target and wind up your preying mantis style for 2 hours in order to hit the target.
What's worse, getting Perma-Dazed by someone good or getting Perma-Dazed because you have the reaction time of a desk?
Go Cryptic!
PS - I quit.
Chill Stacks, are a side effect of various powers available to CW's and can be generated by an At-Will power that can be spammed indefinitely (among other things). It can also be further boosted by equipment to generate chill stacks more often. They are a specific feature of CW's only and not available to anybody else. In addition freezing a target prevents them from moving or retaliating in any way for the duration.
This may be further followed up with other control effects that do not clash with chilling effects while they are still frozen.
Stuns are the specific effect of multiple powers across different classes, of which TR's have access to three (Dazing Strike, Smoke Bomb and Shadow Strike (when used from stealth only)), They are not a side-effect of merely being a TR. You may still move while being stunned, and you cannot have further stunning effects applied to you until the duration is over.
For Scoundrels only, there are two feats that cause stunning (neither of which stack):
- Concussive Blows, which stuns for 0.2/0.4/0.6/0.8/1 second whenever you strike a foe with a Critical Strike or from behind. This already has its own 5 second CD, amounting to a 20% uptime.
- Skullcracker, which grants the TR Skullcracker every 15 seconds. While using Skullcracker, the next encounter power used will auto stun your target for 4 seconds. Continuing to attack them will extend the stun by 0.5 secs every strike, up to an additional 2 secs. Foes affected by Skullcracker also take 25% more damage from the TR.
This effectively amounts to an 11-9 second cooldown depending on whether followup attacks are used, or 26.7% - 40% uptime. Having a 10 second CD added to stuns will barely affect this power at all (reduces it to 26.7% - 37.5% uptime, woot), and it is the main cause of "insane TR stuns" that everyone complains about.
Half stun durations in PvP however, and suddenly concussive blows lasts for 0.5 seconds, and Skullcracker has an uptime of 13.3% - 20%.
Just stop there please. It's just hard to read the overconfident crab (pun intended) you are trying to imply. You had them before or after you had developed your pincers? Seriosly tho, posts like: i had your dog before you started to walk are simply laughable and embarasing. Nothing more than that.
tell me why then HR's are always able to use piercing blades? and yeah in PVE it will greatly reduce our damage, i love pve, They need to split PVE and PVP, stop "Balancing" both of them at the same time, its lazy... make changes for pvp only, and make powers do different things during each mode.
Cw applies chill effect up until you freeze. Freeze takes 2 to 6 seconds to apply (depending of feats, power and artefact) and last 2 to 4 seconds.
Once you’re frozen you can’t do a thing, but before getting frozen you have a minimum of 2 to 6 seconds to attack and parry. And if you’re not successful enough then you’re frozen. But you still made some damage before getting there or even killed the CW.
You can’t compare that to the instant daze effect. Right away you can’t do anything anymore; you can’t do any damages or else.
On top of that, daze effect can stack up with other feats and powers to a point you’re losing a fight with no chance to react and that’s nonsenses.
Daze has to be nerf and get a cooldown on player, so it won’t get to the point of passing 4 seconds max and after that no daze effect is working on the player affected for a couple of seconds.
Go on test server and you'll see that you’re wrong at the moment TR is still winning big time even with the 2 seconds stealth brake.
Don't forget that only the player you it can see you for 2 seconds not the others.
Daze as to be nerf.
*yawn... who are you? Did I killed you in dominion so many times that all you can do is nag and spit with your dirty mouth here in forums instead of playing and improving your dirty old <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>? Are you one of those whom I mop the floor with their corpses? your probably on my 2,409th kill thats why you hated TR this much?
@jarecsteph
why do you complain this much? dont you know how OP CWs? It can even solo Epic dungeons can burst any class anytime of the day in pvp, HR tab doesnt go on cooldown it has "6 encounters back2back" and pierce all day, DC can out heal damage, tanky and can kill you with dps.
Hypocrisy is everywhere people here complains a lot about other class why dont you clean your own toilet first before screaming and nagging at your neighbor?
God dammit i love you
all of these things are dumb, stealth = defense, plain and simple, you want everyone to be able to see us? for what purpose? get rid of bait and switch, then perma wont be easy anymore, it will take skill to stay in stealth, no matter what you wont get rid of it, dont nerf stealth because of cry babies on forums, listen to the rogues why dont you? you arent giving any of us a chance and just going through with these decisions on your own thinking it will help other players, Stupid is Stupid, youre only putting us on a platter to the other skilled pvp players, any Decent PVP player with half a brain can fight a rogue in stealth, not to mention perma stealth. You are going to lose player base and this game will die in a year if you guys keep messing with classes like this, during the "playing with the devs" i noticed how unskilled These "Devs" were, especially the guy with golden hair and his GWF... Going into PVP with avatar of war? uhm OK? it goes to show you, that none of you truly play this game and understand how classes play against eachother, or that you even test out your changes... "OH HEY THIS CHANGE MIGHT STOP OUR HIGH PAYING CUSTOMERS FROM COMPLAINING ABOUT THESE ROGUES FOR KILLING THEM" have any of you asked the rogue forums on the PERMA FREEZE CW's.. i couldve sworn you guys took perma prone from GWF's for a reason, but you only gave it to cw's, but no, everyone plays a CW so you want the ones who spend $1000 plus to be happy, thank you for your unreasonable "bug fixes" "patches" "balances" dont ask the class who mains them or anything... its not like we are playing the game too right?
i like how your opinion of rogues is the nuking OHK lashing blade, you know not all rogues do that? at wills encounters and other **** take away our stealth, you do understand that our DPS comes from stealth? its not our fault this is the way the game is made, we dont do any damage out of stealth, so we dodge and stun and do other things while out of stealth. in ALL and i mean ALL of our feats, every damaging ability comes from stealth, so you want us to fight out of stealth? so that we cant kill you? why not just learn how to fight a rogue? i know so many gf's gwf's cw's hr's who can all hold their own ground and still destroy rogues, it just sounds like you want all classes to be the same. why even give rogues stealth if no one wants to play against a class who uses stealth, take the freaking rogue out of the game, stop complaining about rogues, OMG ONE SHOT OP, OMG PERMA OP, how about, omg perma freeze = cw, piercing blades all the time= HR, near-perma prone = GF/gwf, LIterally unkillable = DC, so go ahead and complain about rogues who can finally fight back, you didnt expect us to be a threat, but i mean hey, even though a CW specializes in AOE, while a rogue specializes in single target doesnt mean the rogue can kill the cw faster right?
thing need to be nerf next is 75% deflc sev and roll dodge, daze
I wanna ask what kind of glory is there for TR user to dominate PvP if your class hold title as OP?
more nerf will come but it's okay TR can l2p just like how they ask for other class
which is 3 seconds.
and it freeze hence i cant move and respond.
in that 3 second down time i can be entangled or under chill strike or repelled to death ( i hate that ****)
3 second being passed, im freezed again.
Haha. First of all you missed with your premature assumptions by a moon to earth distance. It is funny how you try to impress to the forum members with overconfidence backed up by meaninigles numbers gained on some pug scrubs. Dude leave the sandbox and grow hairs where they should grow. It's not a kindergarden. Take your plastic shovel with ya mate! Now off you go.
So don't whine to me about 100% crit chance when you have that OP class feature.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
The high duration of dazes comes from weaving Dazing Strike and Smokebomb into the rotation. Which all TRs have access to. In fact I've just been doing some testing on Preview specced as Executioner but using the same encounter loadout as my Scoundrel and in PvE I can still maintain daze for long periods.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder