TR DPS in mod 2, 3, and 4, was ridiculous for a DPS Class. Now, it's fine.
50k+ mitigated One Shot ? If you are a decent % of tenacity, it's very hard to obtain this result. 20% tenacity = base damage * 0.64. (today, but changes coming soon ).
For a 50k+ mitigated lashing blade, need a 78K unmitigated Lashing Blade. Possible, for a 22-25k GS TR with specific build. Impossible for a 13-19k GS.
But, no problem, next thursday, news :
- TR is visible for 2 second when he strike a target. Even the blind can no longer whine.
- 36% more Resistances from tenacity with same amount of points : 20% now = 23.6% next week. So your 50k+ lashing blade from a very low number of rogues, will be a 45k+ lashing blade.
TR are visibles, Disheartening strike was already nerfed ( 65% lower damages ), Shocking execution will be nerfed (20% lower damages), Bloddbath exploit from saboteur tree is fixed, your resistance is upped, all is ok.
Permastealth and whiners stay, so, the real problem stay, but the rest is ok.
Real rogues stay, brainless rogues will be desapointed and they take out, but they can become brainless CW, HR, SW, DC and GWF now.
I've never felt a need to single any class out for OPness. But too much is too much. Nothing is more despairing in PvP than a perma Stealth TR on node knocking everyone out with Smoke Bomb and Bloodbath. There is simply no counter whatsoever. When you bundle the best single target encounter DPS (lashing blade), the best 'daily' DPS (Shocking Execution), the best AOE CC (Smoke Bomb), the best defense (which is stealth and deflect), the best AOE DPS (Bloodbath) into one monstrosity. GJ Cryptic. You've just killed PvP.
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khimera906Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 898Arc User
I've never felt a need to single any class out for OPness. But too much is too much. Nothing is more despairing in PvP than a perma Stealth TR on node knocking everyone out with Smoke Bomb and Bloodbath. There is simply no counter whatsoever. When you bundle the best single target encounter DPS (lashing blade), the best 'daily' DPS (Shocking Execution), the best AOE CC (Smoke Bomb), the best defense (which is stealth and deflect), the best AOE DPS (Bloodbath) into one monstrosity. GJ Cryptic. You've just killed PvP.
OK, dude, there are some problems (in PVP) with rogues, but, holy HAMSTER, do you guys over exaggerate things. Best CC Smoke Bomb? It takes like a second to cast and another second to take effect, in which time you can get interrupted or even killed, cause rogues really don't have the best defense. You can jut walk out of the smoke since it's a daze not a stun, and if you're a ranged class you can start attacking once you're out of the smoke. You have to be careful with stealth for it to be a good defense cause you can be targeted in stealth in some cases, and you're still affected by AOEs. Bloodbath can't really be a good AOE cause it's really not an AOE even if can hit multiple targets, it hits them one at a time. If there are multiple targets it does less damage to each individual target, cause the damage is split between them.
I hate dancing with Lady Luck. She always steps on my toes.
from a SW point of view I like being able to see after being hit, what I absolutely HATE is almost permanently being silenced. no point in seeing something if you cant use your spells.
Tabatha
Tabatha@rotters // Scourge Warlock // Co Leader // Civil Anarchy
I've never felt a need to single any class out for OPness. But too much is too much. Nothing is more despairing in PvP than a perma Stealth TR on node knocking everyone out with Smoke Bomb and Bloodbath. There is simply no counter whatsoever. When you bundle the best single target encounter DPS (lashing blade), the best 'daily' DPS (Shocking Execution), the best AOE CC (Smoke Bomb), the best defense (which is stealth and deflect), the best AOE DPS (Bloodbath) into one monstrosity. GJ Cryptic. You've just killed PvP.
Exacly it, and please DEVS do something quick before it's to late....
OK, dude, there are some problems (in PVP) with rogues, but, holy HAMSTER, do you guys over exaggerate things. Best CC Smoke Bomb? It takes like a second to cast and another second to take effect, in which time you can get interrupted or even killed, cause rogues really don't have the best defense. You can jut walk out of the smoke since it's a daze not a stun, and if you're a ranged class you can start attacking once you're out of the smoke. You have to be careful with stealth for it to be a good defense cause you can be targeted in stealth in some cases, and you're still affected by AOEs. Bloodbath can't really be a good AOE cause it's really not an AOE even if can hit multiple targets, it hits them one at a time. If there are multiple targets it does less damage to each individual target, cause the damage is split between them.
Stealth TR can take up to 39K HP with bloodbath (and it happened often)
Stealth TR throws it while stealth and remaining stealth there no way to react,
He waits around 3 to 4 seconds till we lose half of our HP then use smoke bomb then DPS with a lot of options…
Then by the time we get out of Smoke Bomb AOE, going stealth again, while all this time blood bath continued to take more HP
Then he just have to finished the job
Nothing else as to be done and if he use Lashing blade on top of all this you died in 4 to 5 second max
And that’s fairly one of the 3 typical encounters with stealth TR.
Please don't put Smoke Bomb out of the context of a fight and as matter of fact all the stuff that TR has.
Stealth used with high critical DPS, Stun and Daze control is way too much.
Stealth should be broke at casting that’s it, so TR will have to throw everything they have to survive without the possibility to wait at their leisure when to hit again!
from a SW point of view I like being able to see after being hit, what I absolutely HATE is almost permanently being silenced. no point in seeing something if you cant use your spells.
Tabatha
And that's the whole point of this tread,
If developers hear us all none TR,
you are Stealth you hit someone, oops sorry you're not stealth anymore!!!
So be careful and wise when you play TRs because thinking you’re smart wining while nobody can see and hit you won't do anymore...
To provide a little more context, we are generally happy with where rogues are currently falling in most cases, but we didn't see the increase in counterplay that we initially wanted from the changes to stealth and at wills in Module 5, partially because we decided we also wanted mid range rogues to be a much more viable build. Given the way players can currently interact with stealth (with enemies in melee range being revealed), this meant that making ranged rogues more viable had a negative impact on how players could interact with permastealth. However, our goal was not to eliminate stealth as an option that could be maintained, but make it more difficult to oppress an enemy without them fighting back. Given that we are investigating a couple options, but the one that I hope will be out and ready for testing sometime this week is as follows.
When you strike a player while stealthed they will be able to see you for 2 seconds. You are revealed only to the player you struck. Damage over time effects will only trigger this reveal on initial damage application at this time.
This still allows rogues to try and pick targets effectively, but once you have been targeted by a rogue you will have access to far more options than you did before (i.e. you can target them). As an added bonus, when you are struck by a rogue in stealth you are just becoming more keenly aware of stealth, and other stealthed rogues will become visible to you as well. Stealth damage bonuses and critical bonuses will still apply against targets who can see the rogue.
Your primary goal as a rogue in PVP who utilizes stealth fully will become something more of a "heat seeking missile" picking high priority targets to engage with in a forced 1 on 1 situation.
This change is in testing and is *NOT FINAL* as of this time. We are experimenting with several options based on our technical limitations with how stealth works and what will feel good to players without removing all the skill and playstyle surrounding stealth.
I hope you mean by other rogues, not the one you can see because he hit you!!!
And 2 sec is to short or are least no TR immunities should be possible during that period.
DPS is way to high still...
And how come I used Entangling Force on a stealth TR and while still in the air he triggered Impossible to Catch??? Was it a bug...
you are Stealth you hit someone, oops sorry you're not stealth anymore!!!
So be careful and wise when you play TRs because thinking you’re smart wining while nobody can see and hit you won't do anymore...
And, as previously stated, permastealth is nothing new.
The only change so far is the damage. Permastealth isn't the problem, the problem is the damage. Nerfing stealth doesn't nerf the damage.
Broken mechanics, broken class designs, lack of actual content, and over zealous, bronze-age moderation?
Actually, this means everything if TRs can vote. It means that the vote is more representative of the whole community, be that TR or non TR (admittedly only those that frequent these pages).
Not just players that hold bias for OR against the class.
Lets be honest though, we all hold some amount of bias over this.
Ok, I've finally been able to make my way to the preview shard to test the changes. Special tnx to Tabatha and others for being my guinea pigs.
So, having hesitated at the need for a damage reduction to Shocking Execution (i hardly ever use it), I'd have to agree with the change.
Same goes for Bloodbath only procc'ing Shadowy Opportunity on the initial hit.
These are both reasonable moves.
The 2 second stealth reveal is, i feel, too long and should be reduced to 1 second or so. Were it to remain, then the at-will stealth depletion mechanic that was brought in with Mod 5 should be seriously reconsidered. Of course, the feats associated with gloaming cut might then need to be looked at.
Were these changes to go live in the current encarnation, I'd be tempted to swap paths. If others have come to the same decision then we've arrived back at the same place that we were before the module went live.
I want to have feat paths that each offer equal worth for me to choose from. I feel that the choice is again being distilled down where one or more path is a bad option and where the flavour is being leached.
Ok, I've finally been able to make my way to the preview shard to test the changes. Special tnx to Tabatha and others for being my guinea pigs.
So, having hesitated at the need for a damage reduction to Shocking Execution (i hardly ever use it), I'd have to agree with the change.
Same goes for Bloodbath only procc'ing Shadowy Opportunity on the initial hit.
These are both reasonable moves.
The 2 second stealth reveal is, i feel, too long and should be reduced to 1 second or so. Were it to remain, then the at-will stealth depletion mechanic that was brought in with Mod 5 should be seriously reconsidered. Of course, the feats associated with gloaming cut might then need to be looked at.
Were these changes to go live in the current encarnation, I'd be tempted to swap paths. If others have come to the same decision then we've arrived back at the same place that we were before the module went live.
I want to have feat paths that each offer equal worth for me to choose from. I feel that the choice is again being distilled down where one or more path is a bad option and where the flavour is being leached.
I also been to the test server
2 seconds stealth reveal feels perfect not too long not too short,
For sure TR will complain about it because they won’t be able to destroy others as easily without it!
Below 2 seconds reveal would have been too short to react and also because most of CW casting takes near 2 seconds to activate (So in the fastest best situation: react + activation time = around 2 to 3 sec minimum for a CW and also longer for certain spells)
TRs as to compensate is attacks and moves and we can counterattack.
TRs have to react and uses there at will, encounter or daily right away not wait to use them when it suits them!
I had fun instead of being frustrated, wow.... it feels great
That's a fair and logic (you hit me I can see you) decision,
Activation Times: Just to name a few...
Chill Strike=0.72secs
CoI=1.5secs
Entangling force=0.72secs
Ray of Enfeeblement=0.9secs
Ice Knife=1.2secs
Repel.......etc
I'm not sure where you got the impression that the majority of your spells take >2secs to activate came from.
Perhaps it is the case that 1 sec is too short, but I stand by the fact that 2secs IS too long. I dont for a moment begrudge opposing players having an opportunity to counter attack, but guaranteeing a hit by all except those who are AFK is not the right direction either. That would invalidate the sabotuer feat tree entirely. Personally I don't want to go back to the days of only having one truly usable build, i'd like to retain the variety and choice.
As per suggesting that TRs will all "surely complain about this"? Do you really expect them to lay down when there are some who present biased and misleading information to colour the discussion in their favour?
Activation Times: Just to name a few...
Chill Strike=0.72secs
CoI=1.5secs
Entangling force=0.72secs
Ray of Enfeeblement=0.9secs
Ice Knife=1.2secs
Repel.......etc
I'm not sure where you got the impression that the majority of your spells take >2secs to activate came from.
Perhaps it is the case that 1 sec is too short, but I stand by the fact that 2secs IS too long. I dont for a moment begrudge opposing players having an opportunity to counter attack, but guaranteeing a hit by all except those who are AFK is not the right direction either. That would invalidate the sabotuer feat tree entirely. Personally I don't want to go back to the days of only having one truly usable build, i'd like to retain the variety and choice.
As per suggesting that TRs will all "surely complain about this"? Do you really expect them to lay down when there are some who present biased and misleading information to colour the discussion in their favour?
If TR is gone before 2 seconds no spells will touch and you know it!!!
First you have to aim, give it at least .5 to 1 second
Then buy the time you cast and the spells hits
This is approximate:
Chill Strike=Touch at 1.8 seconds
Conduit of ice =2.2secs
Entangling force=Adversary is up at 2 seconds
Ray of Enfeeblement=Touch at 0.9secs
Ice Knife=Touch at 2.2secs
Repel=Touch at 1.5 seconds
Icy Ray=Touch at 2 seconds
So 2 second is fairly short for both sides the DVELOPPERS got it right…
And to win just because the others can't react to you is HAMSTER,
so be happy and let the other characters enjoy playing against an opponent not a ghost!!!
Still I think something also as to be done with daze effect TR are still abuses it to much you can be daze praticly all the fight it should have a cooldown on player
If TR is gone before 2 seconds no spells will touch and you know it!!!
First you have to aim, give it at least .5 to 1 second
Then buy the time you cast and the spells hits
This is approximate:
Chill Strike=Touch at 1.8 seconds
Conduit of ice =2.2secs
Entangling force=Adversary is up at 2 seconds
Ray of Enfeeblement=Touch at 0.9secs
Ice Knife=Touch at 2.2secs
Repel=Touch at 1.5 seconds
Icy Ray=Touch at 2 seconds
So 2 second is fairly short for both sides the DVELOPPERS got it right…
And to win just because the others can't react to you is HAMSTER,
so be happy and let the other characters enjoy playing against an opponent not a ghost!!!
Still I think something also as to be done with daze effect TR are still abuses it to much you can be daze praticly all the fight it should have a cooldown on player
Suggesting that "I know it" is discourtious, and adding a string of exclamation marks doesnt add weight to that suggest. It makes you look petulant.
Giving it "at least .5-1 sec" to aim and then press the button? Well, i can account for actual spell activation times, i can't account for the variance in you activating your finger. Being on the recieving end, those that I sparred against didnt seem to have any such handicap.
Bear in mind also that this is a rolling 2 second visibility, dependant upon you being hit. As such, I can't agree with your perspective on the time, let alone whether this is the best way to deal with the proposed issue. I say this having played both sides of the coin.
I appreciate where you're coming from playing against a "ghost", but the ideal outcome is something that everyone can "be happy" with whilst not prejudicing an entire feat tree.
As per the daze effect that you bring up, the way you've written suggests that you're amalgamating all the TR paths into one. Currently it's not a part of these changes.
That aside for your benefit, given that you seem to be losing your perspective of time....
(Scoundrel path) presuming consistent and continuous hits fully feated concussive strikes has a 50% up time, and the capstone 30%ish. Thats potentially but not exclusively concurrent. It's not however censecutive. This is not for "practically all the fight" as you suggest.
The scoundrel compromises a significant amount of damage for this.
You guys are just too funny - so now that you have TR being seen in stealth, you also want to get rid of their dazes (LOL).
Why don't you just ask for new TR at will - TR takes triple damage from own at wills and grant all CW's triple heals - probably still not enough to make you happy though is it?
Be fair - a useless tab, 1 tree left to play for the serious PVP people, and you are still moaning, and from the most OP class in the game. I have played a CW, did not die once levelling up to 60 in PVE. Not a thing I could have done with a TR. But fine - reduce TR dazes, and then remove CW control effects in PVP - and one shot kills, fairs, fair after all
Suggesting that "I know it" is discourtious, and adding a string of exclamation marks doesnt add weight to that suggest. It makes you look petulant.
Giving it "at least .5-1 sec" to aim and then press the button? Well, i can account for actual spell activation times, i can't account for the variance in you activating your finger. Being on the recieving end, those that I sparred against didnt seem to have any such handicap.
Bear in mind also that this is a rolling 2 second visibility, dependant upon you being hit. As such, I can't agree with your perspective on the time, let alone whether this is the best way to deal with the proposed issue. I say this having played both sides of the coin.
I appreciate where you're coming from playing against a "ghost", but the ideal outcome is something that everyone can "be happy" with whilst not prejudicing an entire feat tree.
As per the daze effect that you bring up, the way you've written suggests that you're amalgamating all the TR paths into one. Currently it's not a part of these changes.
That aside for your benefit, given that you seem to be losing your perspective of time....
(Scoundrel path) presuming consistent and continuous hits fully feated concussive strikes has a 50% up time, and the capstone 30%ish. Thats potentially but not exclusively concurrent. It's not however censecutive. This is not for "practically all the fight" as you suggest.
The scoundrel compromises a significant amount of damage for this.
In the best scenario you can cast in less than .5 if the TR is right in your aim,
but TR won’t hit you while in front of you they are behind or aside and he moves verry FAST(not staying still waiting for your cast) so yes it takes .5 to 1 sec before you can aim an even longer sometime and when that happens his gone in smoke.
And while is visible, in this tiny little 2 seconds time your crying about, TR can still use Dazing Stike, Sahdow Strike, Smoke Bomb, Deft Strike, Impossible to Catch to name a few and still returned to stealth without being hit.
Don’t try to tell me what is happening; I already spend about 12 hours of 1 x1 TR fights since test server update and TR are already adapting and are still too strong.
Daze has to have a cooldown on player as freeze for Control Wizard has.
You guys are just too funny - so now that you have TR being seen in stealth, you also want to get rid of their dazes (LOL).
Why don't you just ask for new TR at will - TR takes triple damage from own at wills and grant all CW's triple heals - probably still not enough to make you happy though is it?
Be fair - a useless tab, 1 tree left to play for the serious PVP people, and you are still moaning, and from the most OP class in the game. I have played a CW, did not die once levelling up to 60 in PVE. Not a thing I could have done with a TR. But fine - reduce TR dazes, and then remove CW control effects in PVP - and one shot kills, fairs, fair after all
Sorry man but TR control Wizard in a PVP fight not the other way around; our control has practically no effect on a TR
Thats why daze, as to be balance like they've done for CW freeze.
everyone is talking about fix and broken class, truth is everything in this game needs fix :rolleyes:
when someone points a finger to someone else main class they become hypocrites and says
everything is ok and that other class needs to be fixed instead for example a lot of stealth whiners but they dont
complain about HR mechanic without cooldown and having 6 encounters just how hypocrite are you here?
I dont care if you change stealth mechanic one thing is for sure I will find a way to defeat you in equal grounds and you will hate TR more.
everyone is talking about fix and broken class, truth is everything in this game needs fix :rolleyes:
when someone points a finger to someone else main class they become hypocrites and says
everything is ok and that other class needs to be fixed instead for example a lot of stealth whiners but they dont
complain about HR mechanic without cooldown and having 6 encounters just how hypocrite are you here?
I dont care if you change stealth mechanic one thing is for sure I will find a way to defeat you in equal grounds and you will hate TR more.
Even with 2 seconds stealth revealed and daze cooldown on player you are right.
You will still have an advantage and that’s why critical severity also has to be adjust on players!!!!
I just played like 50 + 20 TR PVP and I can absolutely tell you that this 2 seconds won’t do anything if nothing is done concerning daze it has to have a cooldown on player
And critical severity also has to be adjust on players!!!!
And what the hell is wrong with Gloaming Cut that crit at 23,165 HP and a moment before at 32,194???????
........ in this tiny little 2 seconds time your crying about, TR can still use Dazing Stike, Sahdow Strike, Smoke Bomb, Deft Strike, Impossible to Catch to name a few and still returned to stealth without being hit.
Don’t try to tell me what is happening; I already spend about 12 hours of 1 x1 TR fights since test server update and TR are already adapting and are still too strong.
Daze has to have a cooldown on player as freeze for Control Wizard has.
There's no crying here. A better definition of that would be 38+ posts in another classes feedback forum arguing until you're blue in the face that another class should face a swath of nerfs. I get the impression that you won't be happy until TRs are bound and gagged infront of you waiting for you to finally, and laboriously, press the button.
It's a reality that we're all biased about our own classes and our perception clouded by this, but you my friend are on a whole new level that seems refractory to logic
Sorry man but TR control Wizard in a PVP fight not the other way around; our control has practically no effect on a TR
Thats why daze, as to be balance like they've done for CW freeze.
Well this reply just proves that 1) you are lumping all TR trees together, 2) You all blame Perma stealth in-correctly about aspects of TR that you find hard to counter. If you cannot play against a TR with the now visible when in stealth thing - what more do you want. All TR's play with one hand tied behind their backs?
Be fair - what TR's are saying is that the wrong area is being changed in a knee jerk reaction kind if way. Most of the non TR people calling for changes to remove perma stealth because supposedly this is making TR op. As point of fact two of the three TR's trees are not controlling a CW with dazes / slows whatever. And SAB's are certainly easily controlled by CW's when seen. The problem is people are just asking / requesting for all aspects of TR to be reduced to nothing. Why don't you just request this class be remove from game and have done?
What most TR's wish/ask for - is a reasonable idea set of changes to bring balance. So please just stop and think about one aspect of the TR that really annoys/make them OP or whatever and stick to that one thing in requesting. All this jumping from one thing to another simply muddies the waters
And while is visible, in this tiny little 2 seconds time your crying about, TR can still use Dazing Stike, Sahdow Strike, Smoke Bomb, Deft Strike, Impossible to Catch to name a few and still returned to stealth without being hit.
Right - let's look at this, shall we?
Dazing Strike - Restarts the 2 second window of visibility. Doesn't help getting back into stealth. May delay counter-attack long enough to use some other method of defence.
Shadow Strike - Restarts the 2 second window of visibility. Refills stealth meter. Doesn't help getting back into stealth without being hit. Doesn't prevent counter-attack.
Smoke Bomb - Doesn't help getting back into stealth. Target can just walk out of AoE. Meanwhile TR is visible.
Deft Strike - Restarts 2 second window of visibility. Slows target. Doesn't help getting back into stealth.
ITC - Immunity to CC and 100% deflect chance for around 4 seconds every 15 seconds. Finally something that helps protect the TR while visible. Oh - but only available to 1 paragon path.
This is why people who have never played a class should probably avoid commenting on it.
Comments
50k+ mitigated One Shot ? If you are a decent % of tenacity, it's very hard to obtain this result. 20% tenacity = base damage * 0.64. (today, but changes coming soon ).
For a 50k+ mitigated lashing blade, need a 78K unmitigated Lashing Blade. Possible, for a 22-25k GS TR with specific build. Impossible for a 13-19k GS.
But, no problem, next thursday, news :
- TR is visible for 2 second when he strike a target. Even the blind can no longer whine.
- 36% more Resistances from tenacity with same amount of points : 20% now = 23.6% next week. So your 50k+ lashing blade from a very low number of rogues, will be a 45k+ lashing blade.
TR are visibles, Disheartening strike was already nerfed ( 65% lower damages ), Shocking execution will be nerfed (20% lower damages), Bloddbath exploit from saboteur tree is fixed, your resistance is upped, all is ok.
Permastealth and whiners stay, so, the real problem stay, but the rest is ok.
Real rogues stay, brainless rogues will be desapointed and they take out, but they can become brainless CW, HR, SW, DC and GWF now.
All is well in the best of worlds.
OK, dude, there are some problems (in PVP) with rogues, but, holy HAMSTER, do you guys over exaggerate things. Best CC Smoke Bomb? It takes like a second to cast and another second to take effect, in which time you can get interrupted or even killed, cause rogues really don't have the best defense. You can jut walk out of the smoke since it's a daze not a stun, and if you're a ranged class you can start attacking once you're out of the smoke. You have to be careful with stealth for it to be a good defense cause you can be targeted in stealth in some cases, and you're still affected by AOEs. Bloodbath can't really be a good AOE cause it's really not an AOE even if can hit multiple targets, it hits them one at a time. If there are multiple targets it does less damage to each individual target, cause the damage is split between them.
Tabatha
Tabatha@rotters // Scourge Warlock // Co Leader // Civil Anarchy
We are looking for non elitist guilds to join our alliance.
Exacly it, and please DEVS do something quick before it's to late....
Stealth TR can take up to 39K HP with bloodbath (and it happened often)
Stealth TR throws it while stealth and remaining stealth there no way to react,
He waits around 3 to 4 seconds till we lose half of our HP then use smoke bomb then DPS with a lot of options…
Then by the time we get out of Smoke Bomb AOE, going stealth again, while all this time blood bath continued to take more HP
Then he just have to finished the job
Nothing else as to be done and if he use Lashing blade on top of all this you died in 4 to 5 second max
And that’s fairly one of the 3 typical encounters with stealth TR.
Please don't put Smoke Bomb out of the context of a fight and as matter of fact all the stuff that TR has.
Stealth used with high critical DPS, Stun and Daze control is way too much.
Stealth should be broke at casting that’s it, so TR will have to throw everything they have to survive without the possibility to wait at their leisure when to hit again!
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?810741-Stealth-Change-vs-Damage-Reduction/page1
And that's the whole point of this tread,
If developers hear us all none TR,
you are Stealth you hit someone, oops sorry you're not stealth anymore!!!
So be careful and wise when you play TRs because thinking you’re smart wining while nobody can see and hit you won't do anymore...
This vote means nothing if TR can vote!!!!
I hope you mean by other rogues, not the one you can see because he hit you!!!
And 2 sec is to short or are least no TR immunities should be possible during that period.
DPS is way to high still...
And how come I used Entangling Force on a stealth TR and while still in the air he triggered Impossible to Catch??? Was it a bug...
Another CW brawler. You know nothing about how hard it is to play TR so just get out of this forum.
Asha-DC(Faithful-Anointed Champion)
Vilgefortz-CW(Thaumaturge-balance)
And, as previously stated, permastealth is nothing new.
The only change so far is the damage. Permastealth isn't the problem, the problem is the damage. Nerfing stealth doesn't nerf the damage.
Go Cryptic!
PS - I quit.
Actually, this means everything if TRs can vote. It means that the vote is more representative of the whole community, be that TR or non TR (admittedly only those that frequent these pages).
Not just players that hold bias for OR against the class.
Lets be honest though, we all hold some amount of bias over this.
So, having hesitated at the need for a damage reduction to Shocking Execution (i hardly ever use it), I'd have to agree with the change.
Same goes for Bloodbath only procc'ing Shadowy Opportunity on the initial hit.
These are both reasonable moves.
The 2 second stealth reveal is, i feel, too long and should be reduced to 1 second or so. Were it to remain, then the at-will stealth depletion mechanic that was brought in with Mod 5 should be seriously reconsidered. Of course, the feats associated with gloaming cut might then need to be looked at.
Were these changes to go live in the current encarnation, I'd be tempted to swap paths. If others have come to the same decision then we've arrived back at the same place that we were before the module went live.
I want to have feat paths that each offer equal worth for me to choose from. I feel that the choice is again being distilled down where one or more path is a bad option and where the flavour is being leached.
I also been to the test server
2 seconds stealth reveal feels perfect not too long not too short,
For sure TR will complain about it because they won’t be able to destroy others as easily without it!
Below 2 seconds reveal would have been too short to react and also because most of CW casting takes near 2 seconds to activate (So in the fastest best situation: react + activation time = around 2 to 3 sec minimum for a CW and also longer for certain spells)
TRs as to compensate is attacks and moves and we can counterattack.
TRs have to react and uses there at will, encounter or daily right away not wait to use them when it suits them!
I had fun instead of being frustrated, wow.... it feels great
That's a fair and logic (you hit me I can see you) decision,
good job on that one DEVELOPPERS
please report that your shield is mitigating piercing damages instead of blaming other classes, thanks.
you seem a guy interested in fixing things.
I hate using my shield it makes me lose a spell
Really? Well I have a CW alt that I've tested with also.
Reference: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?692711-Official-Feedback-Thread-Control-Wizard-Changes and http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/neverwinter/news/detail/9005213-patch-notes-11/18/14
Activation Times: Just to name a few...
Chill Strike=0.72secs
CoI=1.5secs
Entangling force=0.72secs
Ray of Enfeeblement=0.9secs
Ice Knife=1.2secs
Repel.......etc
I'm not sure where you got the impression that the majority of your spells take >2secs to activate came from.
Perhaps it is the case that 1 sec is too short, but I stand by the fact that 2secs IS too long. I dont for a moment begrudge opposing players having an opportunity to counter attack, but guaranteeing a hit by all except those who are AFK is not the right direction either. That would invalidate the sabotuer feat tree entirely. Personally I don't want to go back to the days of only having one truly usable build, i'd like to retain the variety and choice.
As per suggesting that TRs will all "surely complain about this"? Do you really expect them to lay down when there are some who present biased and misleading information to colour the discussion in their favour?
If TR is gone before 2 seconds no spells will touch and you know it!!!
First you have to aim, give it at least .5 to 1 second
Then buy the time you cast and the spells hits
This is approximate:
Chill Strike=Touch at 1.8 seconds
Conduit of ice =2.2secs
Entangling force=Adversary is up at 2 seconds
Ray of Enfeeblement=Touch at 0.9secs
Ice Knife=Touch at 2.2secs
Repel=Touch at 1.5 seconds
Icy Ray=Touch at 2 seconds
So 2 second is fairly short for both sides the DVELOPPERS got it right…
And to win just because the others can't react to you is HAMSTER,
so be happy and let the other characters enjoy playing against an opponent not a ghost!!!
Still I think something also as to be done with daze effect TR are still abuses it to much you can be daze praticly all the fight it should have a cooldown on player
Suggesting that "I know it" is discourtious, and adding a string of exclamation marks doesnt add weight to that suggest. It makes you look petulant.
Giving it "at least .5-1 sec" to aim and then press the button? Well, i can account for actual spell activation times, i can't account for the variance in you activating your finger. Being on the recieving end, those that I sparred against didnt seem to have any such handicap.
Bear in mind also that this is a rolling 2 second visibility, dependant upon you being hit. As such, I can't agree with your perspective on the time, let alone whether this is the best way to deal with the proposed issue. I say this having played both sides of the coin.
I appreciate where you're coming from playing against a "ghost", but the ideal outcome is something that everyone can "be happy" with whilst not prejudicing an entire feat tree.
As per the daze effect that you bring up, the way you've written suggests that you're amalgamating all the TR paths into one. Currently it's not a part of these changes.
That aside for your benefit, given that you seem to be losing your perspective of time....
(Scoundrel path) presuming consistent and continuous hits fully feated concussive strikes has a 50% up time, and the capstone 30%ish. Thats potentially but not exclusively concurrent. It's not however censecutive. This is not for "practically all the fight" as you suggest.
The scoundrel compromises a significant amount of damage for this.
You guys are just too funny - so now that you have TR being seen in stealth, you also want to get rid of their dazes (LOL).
Why don't you just ask for new TR at will - TR takes triple damage from own at wills and grant all CW's triple heals - probably still not enough to make you happy though is it?
Be fair - a useless tab, 1 tree left to play for the serious PVP people, and you are still moaning, and from the most OP class in the game. I have played a CW, did not die once levelling up to 60 in PVE. Not a thing I could have done with a TR. But fine - reduce TR dazes, and then remove CW control effects in PVP - and one shot kills, fairs, fair after all
In the best scenario you can cast in less than .5 if the TR is right in your aim,
but TR won’t hit you while in front of you they are behind or aside and he moves verry FAST(not staying still waiting for your cast) so yes it takes .5 to 1 sec before you can aim an even longer sometime and when that happens his gone in smoke.
And while is visible, in this tiny little 2 seconds time your crying about, TR can still use Dazing Stike, Sahdow Strike, Smoke Bomb, Deft Strike, Impossible to Catch to name a few and still returned to stealth without being hit.
Don’t try to tell me what is happening; I already spend about 12 hours of 1 x1 TR fights since test server update and TR are already adapting and are still too strong.
Daze has to have a cooldown on player as freeze for Control Wizard has.
Sorry man but TR control Wizard in a PVP fight not the other way around; our control has practically no effect on a TR
Thats why daze, as to be balance like they've done for CW freeze.
when someone points a finger to someone else main class they become hypocrites and says
everything is ok and that other class needs to be fixed instead for example a lot of stealth whiners but they dont
complain about HR mechanic without cooldown and having 6 encounters just how hypocrite are you here?
I dont care if you change stealth mechanic one thing is for sure I will find a way to defeat you in equal grounds and you will hate TR more.
Even with 2 seconds stealth revealed and daze cooldown on player you are right.
You will still have an advantage and that’s why critical severity also has to be adjust on players!!!!
I just played like 50 + 20 TR PVP and I can absolutely tell you that this 2 seconds won’t do anything if nothing is done concerning daze it has to have a cooldown on player
And critical severity also has to be adjust on players!!!!
And what the hell is wrong with Gloaming Cut that crit at 23,165 HP and a moment before at 32,194???????
There's no crying here. A better definition of that would be 38+ posts in another classes feedback forum arguing until you're blue in the face that another class should face a swath of nerfs. I get the impression that you won't be happy until TRs are bound and gagged infront of you waiting for you to finally, and laboriously, press the button.
It's a reality that we're all biased about our own classes and our perception clouded by this, but you my friend are on a whole new level that seems refractory to logic
Well this reply just proves that 1) you are lumping all TR trees together, 2) You all blame Perma stealth in-correctly about aspects of TR that you find hard to counter. If you cannot play against a TR with the now visible when in stealth thing - what more do you want. All TR's play with one hand tied behind their backs?
Be fair - what TR's are saying is that the wrong area is being changed in a knee jerk reaction kind if way. Most of the non TR people calling for changes to remove perma stealth because supposedly this is making TR op. As point of fact two of the three TR's trees are not controlling a CW with dazes / slows whatever. And SAB's are certainly easily controlled by CW's when seen. The problem is people are just asking / requesting for all aspects of TR to be reduced to nothing. Why don't you just request this class be remove from game and have done?
What most TR's wish/ask for - is a reasonable idea set of changes to bring balance. So please just stop and think about one aspect of the TR that really annoys/make them OP or whatever and stick to that one thing in requesting. All this jumping from one thing to another simply muddies the waters
My best to you
Matthew
Dazing Strike - Restarts the 2 second window of visibility. Doesn't help getting back into stealth. May delay counter-attack long enough to use some other method of defence.
Shadow Strike - Restarts the 2 second window of visibility. Refills stealth meter. Doesn't help getting back into stealth without being hit. Doesn't prevent counter-attack.
Smoke Bomb - Doesn't help getting back into stealth. Target can just walk out of AoE. Meanwhile TR is visible.
Deft Strike - Restarts 2 second window of visibility. Slows target. Doesn't help getting back into stealth.
ITC - Immunity to CC and 100% deflect chance for around 4 seconds every 15 seconds. Finally something that helps protect the TR while visible. Oh - but only available to 1 paragon path.
This is why people who have never played a class should probably avoid commenting on it.
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