Also noticed it yesterday when casually playing through my Well dailies.
Decided to check this with a 'clean' test in Foundry: the result is that the farm enchantments (can say sure only about Hoard and Fey (do not have Tymora): 6% total chance for Hoard and 2% for Fey - actually was no great difference as lots of mobs were being killed almost at once) have the ICD of exactly 2 min: tested it with a stop watch for several cycles.
Thus, either it is a bug (I do hope it is) or the last and clear sign from the Game managers that it is time to leave.
I can confirm this. I did some testing in a foundry and never got a drops within 2 minutes of each other. But did with high frequency after 2 minutes.
I haven't noticed a change in drop rate from only using 2 dragon hoard enchants and I've only been running around Well of Dragons zone. Haven't tried any foundries yet though.
If, as many players report, you raised ICD of Dragon Hoard's Enchantment, that wasn't a very good idea! At least not now! Your idea was to cut down botters' incomings from the sell of the Refinement Stones they farm but, making them BoP and raising the ICD of the enchantments that drop them, made the price of the unbound ones rise to the stars! Who used to farm, still have thousands of unbound Refinement Stones ready to be sold and now is earning a lot much then before due to the fact he's the only one able to have so many! Keep Refinement Stones BoP but erase any ICD on Dragon Hoard's, so legit players can drop as many as they need just playing their dailies and legit-farming heroic encounters and end-game dungeons! In this way you'll give legit players a reason to play more AND you'll cut down botters earnings due to the fact their Refinement Stones are not worth anymore their price if anyone can drop them by playing.
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onegaki101Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 327Arc User
edited November 2014
I did a 30 minute farming yesterday on a farming foundry where there is constant massive amounts of enemy coming in and the fastest I could get it is every 2 minutes.
Simply because Panderus brought it up doesn't mean that the devs had time to figure something else out or work it into the rest of their schedule. That a dev says they'll bring it up also doesn't necessarily mean that changes will be made. Their rational seems to be "we did this for the greater good" and in all honesty, it was overkill. Changing the drops to BTA would have been sufficient. This is just a double whammy that is hard even for the uber casuals to swallow.
Do we have some official post that can be pointed to as to say these changes have been made?
Now if they just reduced the drop rate off of the foundry missions, where people are farming them. I can actually consent to that because you shouldnt have to farm foundry missions to get RP for your weapon. This is a game, not a job.
But if this is universal then yes, it's wrong and the developers are wrong for doing it. But unless we can pin someone down and show that this was a planned thing, then we really cant call them out on it. Now that being said, if Cryptic was the type of company to do that sort of thing, they wouldnt throw themselves under the bus for it. And yes, my faith in this dev crew is very small. I dont see the players consideration being taken in alot they do here... But I am willing to give them a chance to explain what's going on to us.
We are their customers, we have every right to a explanation. If they choose not to give it we have every right to leave.
I don't think it has changed. I had a drop from two consecutive mobs last night, easily within half a minute.
Just the normal randomness.
A drop from the same enchantment?
Or maybe 1 drop from an enchantment and the other - just a regular drop.
To be convinced - for the purpose of a clean experiment just go to a farming foundry and see with your own eyes that the farming enchantments now have 2 min ICD.
Can you really tell me it is entertaining? That's suppose to be the focus of this game. The foundry is supposed to be for people making their own D&D story's and publishing them for others to play, not for farming RP to get your artifacts to legendary.
It's about as entertaining as refining 5 peridots at time to get the 4.6 million RP for Legendary.
5 x 500 = 2,500 RP per mouse action
4.6 million / 2,500 = 1,840 mouse actions. Per artifact.
The botting of refinement points is bad for the game, but so is the mechanic itself... both the insane amount of play time needed to get to Legendary, and the insane amount of carpel tunnel inducing mouse actions once you have the RP.
Hopefully this apparent change is a temporary band-aide, and the player-friendly permanent solution is just around the corner.
Legendary should be very, very hard. But not impossible.
theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
edited November 2014
IMO, they should VASTLY increase the drop rate on these, but make them bind on pickup.
What's the point in making the drops from Dragon Hoard Enchants BtA if you're just going to add another thing for goldspammers to sell on the AH? Yes, this is a weekly quest, but some people can't play except on the weekends, and don't like to spend more than an hour or so running quests on any given day. It's absolutely infuriating to have this quest that is, basically, completely unattainable under normal play unless you guy excess coffers from goldspammers.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
IMO, they should VASTLY increase the drop rate on these, but make them bind on pickup.
What's the point in making the drops from Dragon Hoard Enchants BtA if you're just going to add another thing for goldspammers to sell on the AH? Yes, this is a weekly quest, but some people can't play except on the weekends, and don't like to spend more than an hour or so running quests on any given day. It's absolutely infuriating to have this quest that is, basically, completely unattainable under normal play unless you guy excess coffers from goldspammers.
Are you mixing RP drops from Dragon Hoard Enchants with coffers needed for Mod 5 progression? That would be a topic for a different thread (and yes, the drop rate on those is unreasonable).
You just believe what people are saying about the cooldown without any proof? Maybe you as a moderator know more than the players do but I don't believe anything unless there is hard evidence.
One of my toon wears four dragon hoard enchants and yesterday after the patch they dropped two items with less than maybe 20 seconds in between.
No, actually, I performed two separate tests over 10 minutes each , one in a farming foundry and one in an open world setting, both with 3x lesser dragon hoard enchants, to account for the possibility that only foundry farming was nerfed.
In the foundry test: 3 peridots and one aquamarine.
Open world test: Two peridots.
Now, I don't know about you, but four drops at most over 600 seconds is clearly a nerf no matter how you slice it and would support the claims that other people are making in this thread.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
Are you mixing RP drops from Dragon Hoard Enchants with coffers needed for Mod 5 progression? That would be a topic for a different thread (and yes, the drop rate on those is unreasonable).
No, he's talking about the fact that you can sell the coffers for several thousand AD a pop right now, because they don't bind.
zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
edited November 2014
In my opinion, the drop rate for Dragon Hoard Enchantments, Tymora's Lucky Enchantment, and Fey Blessing Enchantment should have all had an increase in drop rate. They now drop bound stuff anyway and this would make up for the now longer time it takes to get refining items as well as make them more fun and useful. I'm not sure if the Salvager's Enchantment also got nerfed but they still drop unbound rare and epic quality bags. So, I can understand if that enchantment gets a nerf. I just cannot understand why the bound dropping ones got nerfed.
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited November 2014
In context, the question was "why even bother binding RP to stop botters (and nerf the drop rate) when botters could now just switch to farming coffers?" That's how it fits in.
So Now that these items are BoA can we revisit the idea of them just going straight into your inventory instead of having to loot them. This idea was brought up previously but shot down by people saying it would make it even easier for botter's to obtain them, now that that is no longer a issue there is no reason to still have to manually collect them.
I figured when Cryptic made all dropped RP bound they could afford to do away with the ICD and they'd get far less complaints about things being impossible to refine for doing it...
But nooo, let's quintuple the ICD... yeah, smart move.... (not). So now it's bound and you'll get about 1/6th of the drops you did before, sounds real fair...... (they must REALLY think people will get desperate and spend 500$ on the z store for a single legendary...)
Can you AT LEAST increase the odds of a good gem dropping, then?...
They did the opposite of the smart move, after such a harsh nerf as making RP unsaleable you then nerf the main source of that RP by several orders of magnitude? Whose bright idea is this, what what makes them think this won't incite another mass-panic-selloff deal?
With the RP being bound, you could remove the ICD on hoard enchants and you still wouldn't get anywhere near a decent amount of RP by normal play (due to the terrible drop rates for the useful gems).
But 30 seconds to 3 minutes cooldown... might as well dump them... They're just gonna keep nerfing RP until you HAVE to pay their ridiculous zen store price or stick with low-quality artifact gear or quit.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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blackperry99Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 13Arc User
I figured when Cryptic made all dropped RP bound they could afford to do away with the ICD and they'd get far less complaints about things being impossible to refine for doing it...
But nooo, let's quintuple the ICD... yeah, smart move.... (not). So now it's bound and you'll get about 1/6th of the drops you did before, sounds real fair...... (they must REALLY think people will get desperate and spend 500$ on the z store for a single legendary...)
Can you AT LEAST increase the odds of a good gem dropping, then?...
They did the opposite of the smart move, after such a harsh nerf as making RP unsaleable you then nerf the main source of that RP by several orders of magnitude? Whose bright idea is this, what what makes them think this won't incite another mass-panic-selloff deal?
With the RP being bound, you could remove the ICD on hoard enchants and you still wouldn't get anywhere near a decent amount of RP by normal play (due to the terrible drop rates for the useful gems).
But 30 seconds to 3 minutes cooldown... might as well dump them... They're just gonna keep nerfing RP until you HAVE to pay their ridiculous zen store price or stick with low-quality artifact gear or quit.
Your absolutely right there !!!!!! I've been hoarding up enchants for weeks now for the double RP, buth i have by far not enough to refine a cloak, off-hand and main hand to legendary if this goes on!!!
Your absolutely right there !!!!!! I've been hoarding up enchants for weeks now for the double RP, buth i have by far not enough to refine a cloak, off-hand and main hand to legendary if this goes on!!!
Right, everybody is at the VERY end of the RP-train, on their very last supply, after the next x2 refinement, refining new artifacts and equipment will be impossible unless you pay Cryptic straight up for RP, no lube... It's pretty obvious that this is their intent, they want to turn the zen store/WB into the only way for any fast upgrade.
I think we need a separate system (like some portion of XP earned put into a usable RP pool for us to allocate) that allows players who ACTUALLY PLAY to earn RP while they do so. This is especially true if they intend to continue releasing artifact items in the future...
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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hexanna22Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 204Bounty Hunter
I've had 4-5 drops within 10 minutes. I've had drops within 30 seconds of each other. I doubt there was a change to anything, besides maybe RNG.
And that is a horrible drop rate. I used to get 2 to 3 a min.
This change really screws the legit players, who didn't and don't exploit millions of AD.
I understand Cryptic wanting to sell Zen, but I spend money in the Zen store on packs, Keys, and mounts, sometimes kits. The RP prices in the Zen store are just outrageous!
Going to do a 2%, perhaps it is reverse coded as someone suggested.
On the "bright side" it shut all of us "Bound RP Stones Are The Worst Thing You've Ever Done" folks RIGHT the heck up.
Maybe THAT'S what they were doing?
A "Stop Complaining Or Else" thing.
Heh, just kidding.
I think...................
'Wen considered the nature of time and understood that the universe is, instant by instant, recreated anew. Therefore, he understood, there is in truth no past, only a memory of the past. Blink your eyes, and the world you see next did not exist when you closed them. Therefore, he said, the only appropriate state of the mind is surprise. The only appropriate state of the heart is joy. The sky you see now, you have never seen before. The perfect moment is now. Be glad of it.' Terry Pratchet The Thief Of Time
Drops from Dragon Hoard and Fey Blessing are now bound to account... so no more excuses from those who said that was to combat bots. Why is it still further substantial nerf to the drop rate to players who get it THEMSELVES.
The whole combat against bots nonsense is just a lie. Some people just want to artificially inflate the prices of all the RP items they have amassed. It is obvious. Bots don't really get hurt as they have more RP items they can sell in a year already. Higher prices only mean they sell for more. The whole system is actually set to combat REAL players.
Comments
I can confirm this. I did some testing in a foundry and never got a drops within 2 minutes of each other. But did with high frequency after 2 minutes.
Do we have some official post that can be pointed to as to say these changes have been made?
Now if they just reduced the drop rate off of the foundry missions, where people are farming them. I can actually consent to that because you shouldnt have to farm foundry missions to get RP for your weapon. This is a game, not a job.
But if this is universal then yes, it's wrong and the developers are wrong for doing it. But unless we can pin someone down and show that this was a planned thing, then we really cant call them out on it. Now that being said, if Cryptic was the type of company to do that sort of thing, they wouldnt throw themselves under the bus for it. And yes, my faith in this dev crew is very small. I dont see the players consideration being taken in alot they do here... But I am willing to give them a chance to explain what's going on to us.
We are their customers, we have every right to a explanation. If they choose not to give it we have every right to leave.
Just the normal randomness.
A drop from the same enchantment?
Or maybe 1 drop from an enchantment and the other - just a regular drop.
To be convinced - for the purpose of a clean experiment just go to a farming foundry and see with your own eyes that the farming enchantments now have 2 min ICD.
2 min not 3 and yes, with 1 lesser you would not probably feel the real difference.
It's about as entertaining as refining 5 peridots at time to get the 4.6 million RP for Legendary.
5 x 500 = 2,500 RP per mouse action
4.6 million / 2,500 = 1,840 mouse actions. Per artifact.
The botting of refinement points is bad for the game, but so is the mechanic itself... both the insane amount of play time needed to get to Legendary, and the insane amount of carpel tunnel inducing mouse actions once you have the RP.
Hopefully this apparent change is a temporary band-aide, and the player-friendly permanent solution is just around the corner.
Legendary should be very, very hard. But not impossible.
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
What's the point in making the drops from Dragon Hoard Enchants BtA if you're just going to add another thing for goldspammers to sell on the AH? Yes, this is a weekly quest, but some people can't play except on the weekends, and don't like to spend more than an hour or so running quests on any given day. It's absolutely infuriating to have this quest that is, basically, completely unattainable under normal play unless you guy excess coffers from goldspammers.
Honestly, I was really, REALLY surprised that they weren't BoP when I first saw this item.
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Are you mixing RP drops from Dragon Hoard Enchants with coffers needed for Mod 5 progression? That would be a topic for a different thread (and yes, the drop rate on those is unreasonable).
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
No, actually, I performed two separate tests over 10 minutes each , one in a farming foundry and one in an open world setting, both with 3x lesser dragon hoard enchants, to account for the possibility that only foundry farming was nerfed.
In the foundry test: 3 peridots and one aquamarine.
Open world test: Two peridots.
Now, I don't know about you, but four drops at most over 600 seconds is clearly a nerf no matter how you slice it and would support the claims that other people are making in this thread.
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
No, he's talking about the fact that you can sell the coffers for several thousand AD a pop right now, because they don't bind.
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... yes, but this thread is about the internal cooldown of Dragon Horde enchantments, not about the coffers.
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
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This thread is not about Dragon Hoard Coffers. Please use this thread instead for such comments.
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But nooo, let's quintuple the ICD... yeah, smart move.... (not). So now it's bound and you'll get about 1/6th of the drops you did before, sounds real fair...... (they must REALLY think people will get desperate and spend 500$ on the z store for a single legendary...)
Can you AT LEAST increase the odds of a good gem dropping, then?...
They did the opposite of the smart move, after such a harsh nerf as making RP unsaleable you then nerf the main source of that RP by several orders of magnitude? Whose bright idea is this, what what makes them think this won't incite another mass-panic-selloff deal?
With the RP being bound, you could remove the ICD on hoard enchants and you still wouldn't get anywhere near a decent amount of RP by normal play (due to the terrible drop rates for the useful gems).
But 30 seconds to 3 minutes cooldown... might as well dump them... They're just gonna keep nerfing RP until you HAVE to pay their ridiculous zen store price or stick with low-quality artifact gear or quit.
Your absolutely right there !!!!!! I've been hoarding up enchants for weeks now for the double RP, buth i have by far not enough to refine a cloak, off-hand and main hand to legendary if this goes on!!!
Right, everybody is at the VERY end of the RP-train, on their very last supply, after the next x2 refinement, refining new artifacts and equipment will be impossible unless you pay Cryptic straight up for RP, no lube... It's pretty obvious that this is their intent, they want to turn the zen store/WB into the only way for any fast upgrade.
I think we need a separate system (like some portion of XP earned put into a usable RP pool for us to allocate) that allows players who ACTUALLY PLAY to earn RP while they do so. This is especially true if they intend to continue releasing artifact items in the future...
And that is a horrible drop rate. I used to get 2 to 3 a min.
This change really screws the legit players, who didn't and don't exploit millions of AD.
I understand Cryptic wanting to sell Zen, but I spend money in the Zen store on packs, Keys, and mounts, sometimes kits. The RP prices in the Zen store are just outrageous!
Going to do a 2%, perhaps it is reverse coded as someone suggested.
4.6 million xp to level to legendary
lowest refining stone - White Pearl 100 rp
number of pearls needed - 46000
ICD of 3 minutes = 138000 minutes to farm
Hours - 2300 hours
days - 95.83 days of continous non stop farming to legendary
Highest refining stone - Black opal - 10000
number needed - 460
ICD of 3 minutes = 1380 minutes to farm
hours - 23
Most common stone - Peridot, Lesser refining stone 500 rp
number needed - 9200
ICD of 3 minutes = 27600 minutes to farm
Hours - 460
Days - 19.1 days of continous non stop farming to legendary
Yes indeed, best thing i saw the whole day
Maybe THAT'S what they were doing?
A "Stop Complaining Or Else" thing.
Heh, just kidding.
I think...................
'Wen considered the nature of time and understood that the universe is, instant by instant, recreated anew. Therefore, he understood, there is in truth no past, only a memory of the past. Blink your eyes, and the world you see next did not exist when you closed them. Therefore, he said, the only appropriate state of the mind is surprise. The only appropriate state of the heart is joy. The sky you see now, you have never seen before. The perfect moment is now. Be glad of it.' Terry Pratchet The Thief Of Time
The whole combat against bots nonsense is just a lie. Some people just want to artificially inflate the prices of all the RP items they have amassed. It is obvious. Bots don't really get hurt as they have more RP items they can sell in a year already. Higher prices only mean they sell for more. The whole system is actually set to combat REAL players.