I have given up on multiple characters as the game management have made it clear that this is not an alt friendly game, not if you want to be competitive, at least. They kinda lured me when they released the class artifacts, but there no way a legit player can be competitive with multiple chars
Good marketing 1-0-1 here, now more people will buy zen and blood rubies or spend AD on overpriced sapphires..... yeaaaaa........
But being serious I didn't saw much increase in IC (maybe a minute or 2) but still this seems annoying (along with 20h completion time on campaign tasks, I can't even get that many horns to progress).
I think this 3m icd thing is not true
Maybe it's only nerf in foundry
0
meinemaedelsMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4Arc User
edited November 2014
Here are my results. They just show a trend. The sample size is too low to have statistical value. The test toon has four dragon hoard enchants with a total of 5% drop chance.
Results from running foundries:
17:55 min, 845 kills, 9 drops : 1.07% drop chance, 1 drop/2:14 min
Results from running around in Dragon Well:
20:15 min, 377 kills, 20 drops, 5.31% drop chance, 1 drop/1:04 min
The time between drops was not measured but calculated assuming the worst case scenario, i.e. evenly spaced drops with the first at the beginning of the time interval and the last at the end of the interval.
Actually I had some drops with about 20-40 seconds between them (time verified with ACTs time line).
The time given is the time spent in combat. The time and number of kills were derived using the combat log and ACT.
I can see a trend: foundries seem to have a reduced drop rate.
For normal content the drop rate was what has been expected.
0
tripsofthrymrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,624Community Moderator
edited November 2014
I farmed for 1 hour in a foundry with so many imps that I'm practically guaranteed to proc a drop right after the ICD is up. In the 1 hour, I got exactly 30 drops.
Looks like a 2 min ICD to me, at least in a foundry.
Looks like a 2 min ICD to me, at least in a foundry.
I disagree. The chance is per kill. Therefore you have to look at the number of drops versus number of kills. If this is about what you'd expect from the enchants everything is fine.
Anyway, foundries seems to have a changed drop-rate - either by actually having a cool down or by decreasing the drop rate. In the end it doesn't matter.
Foundries seem to be a waste of time when farming using enchants. Normal content seems to be fine with stuff dropping at the rate given by the enchants.
Well, have you counted in the time you walked from mob to mob in WoD? Because hey, the ICD doesn't care if you're in combat or off-combat. No-wonder you get 1 drop per 1 min in combat. Cause by the time you reach a mob you're at least half cooled down.
0
blackperry99Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 13Arc User
Here are my results. They just show a trend. The sample size is too low to have statistical value. The test toon has four dragon hoard enchants with a total of 5% drop chance.
Results from running foundries:
17:55 min, 845 kills, 9 drops : 1.07% drop chance, 1 drop/2:14 min
Results from running around in Dragon Well:
20:15 min, 377 kills, 20 drops, 5.31% drop chance, 1 drop/1:04 min
The time between drops was not measured but calculated assuming the worst case scenario, i.e. evenly spaced drops with the first at the beginning of the time interval and the last at the end of the interval.
Actually I had some drops with about 20-40 seconds between them (time verified with ACTs time line).
The time given is the time spent in combat. The time and number of kills were derived using the combat log and ACT.
I can see a trend: foundries seem to have a reduced drop rate.
For normal content the drop rate was what has been expected.
I disagree on this, i've tested the hoarding drops with G dragon hoards borrowed from a friend, in the foundry i ran for about half an hour i got 11 drops.
Then i ran in WoD, same for about half an hour, i got only 14 drops.
Amulet of Mourning, belt filled with G dragon hoard to, equals to about 15% drop chance, if i'm right i should not be getting this few drops if the ICD isn't nerfed that badly in the normal content.
I disagree. The chance is per kill. Therefore you have to look at the number of drops versus number of kills. If this is about what you'd expect from the enchants everything is fine.
Anyway, foundries seems to have a changed drop-rate - either by actually having a cool down or by decreasing the drop rate. In the end it doesn't matter.
Foundries seem to be a waste of time when farming using enchants. Normal content seems to be fine with stuff dropping at the rate given by the enchants.
The chance is NOT per kill when there is an ICD. You can kill 10000000000 mobs which would guarantee a drop, but if it's on cool down the drop chance is 0.
0
blackperry99Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 13Arc User
edited November 2014
I think there might be another reason to the ICD thing, Double RP is in a month, and last time there was a double RP people went nuts on getting legendary's, like basicly everybody who has some RP could get them.
Might be just to hold off that people get so much legendary's
0
khimera906Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 898Arc User
edited November 2014
I was in WoD all day grinding for Coffers, doing HEs and stuff. To me it seems that the refining stones drop at about the same rate. Maybe you just had a bit of bad luck - it is RNG after all.
Was there an official announcement about this?
I hate dancing with Lady Luck. She always steps on my toes.
0
hexanna22Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 204Bounty Hunter
I was in WoD all day grinding for Coffers, doing HEs and stuff. To me it seems that the refining stones drop at about the same rate. Maybe you just had a bit of bad luck - it is RNG after all.
Was there an official announcement about this?
What percentage are you running? And what is normal for you?
Strictly personal experience speaking here, but it's felt like I've been getting more drops since the mod was released, not less. I'm running at 9%, and am picking something up after pretty much every pull, it seems. Even my alt (3%) is having good luck with regular drops. I run my dailies, and collect all the gems on my banker-alt, and I've always got a nice assortment to send when I'm done.
Ok I sat in a foundry with a stop watch and Split times on the Drops.
Times between Drops Didn't Change substantially with 1 Greater Dragon Hoard(3%), 1 GDH and a DH(5%), Or 1 GDH, 2 GH, and 2 LDH(9%)
The Split Times were always after 2 minutes.
Split times are useless in open world since I can't keep a Constant kill ratio
I think one of the previous posters was correct. There may be a differend ICD if you're in a foundry vs open world. I was getting drops well before 2 minutes had elapsed in open world.
DHE* time before the module 5 was 24 - 30s
with my 12% was around 70-90k RP/per hour
DHE* time after Module 5 is: 90 - 120s
with my 12% is around 15-20k RP/per hour
Introducing a system of BoP was a good idea regardless of whether someone bothered bots or not. That solved the problem. The introduction of BOP system and extend the cooldown is sick and doesn't hit the ppl who use bots only normal players who at this point lose the opportunity to improve to the level of legendary artifacts within a reasonable period of time. I have 4 DHE (12%) and I play a few hours a week (5-9) and cant imagine how many months it will take me to improve my level of legendary artifacts on the other two toons, which I couldn't do it before the release of module 5.
Why there was no information in the Patch Notes about this?
Why Cryptic strikes primarily in legit players, not the cheaters?
Some people from my guild after the introduction of the "newness" stopped play, part of the due to ongoing difficulties posed in front of legit players planning to do same. How many bots stopped playing after the release of Module 5? I assume that much. They are working now on the toons on the accounts of the owners and cheaters will have an advantage on their main characters over the legit players ...
DHE* - dragon hoard enchantment
P.S. Sorry for my english, it isn't my primary language.
0
hexanna22Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 204Bounty Hunter
After a few patches of people crying that the drop rate had been nerfed I started to keep very detailed logs of my various farming days. I have in the past come into these posts and added comments such as "my j-boots are slower after the patch" indicating that the cries of foul were wrong.
I am currently on vacation and could not test thoroughly BUT I can say with utmost certainty that something is a miss right now.
My set up is as follows: I run 4 slots with 4 greater enchants. I run exclusively in foundries as there is no interfering with anyone running dailies etc this way. I have made my own foundry with fairly good mob placement so that I am pretty much killing most of the time and my down time is minimal. The foundry runs ~20minutes.
I will start with that I do NOT see a change in the drop distribution. Meaning that the drops I saw were the same percent as they were for mod 4. Data has been posted before but here is quick reminder:
45% peridots
20% white pearls
15% minor res stones
10% lesser res stones
7% aquamarines
2% flawless sapphire
1% black pearl
This is what I observed today and is consistent with mod 4. That said the huge change is in total number of drops.
In mod 4 I could add up the total % of the dragon hoard enchants and that was my expected % of drops from my kills.
For my char 4 enchants * 3% = 12% so say for 834 kills I would see 100 drops and they would be distributed as the %s above and I would see 45 peridots, 20 white pearls, 15 minor res stones etc.
My testing today produced the following results:
Drop Rate 4%. So the same 834 kills from above produced 33 drops. A HUGE difference if you as me. Now the source of the problem I am not sure.
Another stat I track is drops per minute. My mod 4 drops per minute averaged 0.87. Today's testing came in at 0.39.
It could be a couple of things.
1) could be that only one enchantment is actually working so it appears as if ICD is longer but in reality you are just seeing the results of only one enchantment working and that stacking 4 enchants is broken and needs fixing. (One can hope right?)
2) ICD of enchant has been changed to a much longer cool down.
This would take further testing on my side and I just can't do it for about a week till off vacation and on more reliable internet.
I will keep my eye on this thread and add back my test results as I can do them.
Now, I don't know about you, but four drops at most over 600 seconds is clearly a nerf no matter how you slice it and would support the claims that other people are making in this thread.
My tests show that the drop rate is in the range of what is given by the enchants - as long as you don't run foundries.
Also, it is not drops/time but drops/kill. Looking at drops/time is only valid if kills/time is constant.
My conclusion is that - apart from foundries - the Dragon Hoard enchants work like described.
Comments
It may be an opportunity for them to sell Rubies. Even so, players
in a hurry will always buy those.
They should probably give us more, given the amount of gear that
now has to be upgraded. Plus if you switch gear, you start over.
I feel bad for people with multiple toons.
Agreed.
I have given up on multiple characters as the game management have made it clear that this is not an alt friendly game, not if you want to be competitive, at least. They kinda lured me when they released the class artifacts, but there no way a legit player can be competitive with multiple chars
But being serious I didn't saw much increase in IC (maybe a minute or 2) but still this seems annoying (along with 20h completion time on campaign tasks, I can't even get that many horns to progress).
Maybe it's only nerf in foundry
Results from running foundries:
17:55 min, 845 kills, 9 drops : 1.07% drop chance, 1 drop/2:14 min
Results from running around in Dragon Well:
20:15 min, 377 kills, 20 drops, 5.31% drop chance, 1 drop/1:04 min
The time between drops was not measured but calculated assuming the worst case scenario, i.e. evenly spaced drops with the first at the beginning of the time interval and the last at the end of the interval.
Actually I had some drops with about 20-40 seconds between them (time verified with ACTs time line).
The time given is the time spent in combat. The time and number of kills were derived using the combat log and ACT.
I can see a trend: foundries seem to have a reduced drop rate.
For normal content the drop rate was what has been expected.
Looks like a 2 min ICD to me, at least in a foundry.
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
I disagree. The chance is per kill. Therefore you have to look at the number of drops versus number of kills. If this is about what you'd expect from the enchants everything is fine.
Anyway, foundries seems to have a changed drop-rate - either by actually having a cool down or by decreasing the drop rate. In the end it doesn't matter.
Foundries seem to be a waste of time when farming using enchants. Normal content seems to be fine with stuff dropping at the rate given by the enchants.
Well, have you counted in the time you walked from mob to mob in WoD? Because hey, the ICD doesn't care if you're in combat or off-combat. No-wonder you get 1 drop per 1 min in combat. Cause by the time you reach a mob you're at least half cooled down.
I disagree on this, i've tested the hoarding drops with G dragon hoards borrowed from a friend, in the foundry i ran for about half an hour i got 11 drops.
Then i ran in WoD, same for about half an hour, i got only 14 drops.
Amulet of Mourning, belt filled with G dragon hoard to, equals to about 15% drop chance, if i'm right
The chance is NOT per kill when there is an ICD. You can kill 10000000000 mobs which would guarantee a drop, but if it's on cool down the drop chance is 0.
Might be just to hold off that people get so much legendary's
Was there an official announcement about this?
What percentage are you running? And what is normal for you?
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I think one of the previous posters was correct. There may be a differend ICD if you're in a foundry vs open world. I was getting drops well before 2 minutes had elapsed in open world.
heres mod4 rates to compare to, average drop value was ~890RP(counting resonance for max value, 500 and 2500)
I'll start building a table to compare to.
heres the thread i made back in mod4 http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?769281-drops-from-Dragon-Hoard
with my 12% was around 70-90k RP/per hour
DHE* time after Module 5 is: 90 - 120s
with my 12% is around 15-20k RP/per hour
Introducing a system of BoP was a good idea regardless of whether someone bothered bots or not. That solved the problem. The introduction of BOP system and extend the cooldown is sick and doesn't hit the ppl who use bots only normal players who at this point lose the opportunity to improve to the level of legendary artifacts within a reasonable period of time. I have 4 DHE (12%) and I play a few hours a week (5-9) and cant imagine how many months it will take me to improve my level of legendary artifacts on the other two toons, which I couldn't do it before the release of module 5.
Why there was no information in the Patch Notes about this?
Why Cryptic strikes primarily in legit players, not the cheaters?
Some people from my guild after the introduction of the "newness" stopped play, part of the due to ongoing difficulties posed in front of legit players planning to do same. How many bots stopped playing after the release of Module 5? I assume that much. They are working now on the toons on the accounts of the owners and cheaters will have an advantage on their main characters over the legit players ...
DHE* - dragon hoard enchantment
P.S. Sorry for my english, it isn't my primary language.
NVM miss read your post.
After a few patches of people crying that the drop rate had been nerfed I started to keep very detailed logs of my various farming days. I have in the past come into these posts and added comments such as "my j-boots are slower after the patch" indicating that the cries of foul were wrong.
I am currently on vacation and could not test thoroughly BUT I can say with utmost certainty that something is a miss right now.
My set up is as follows: I run 4 slots with 4 greater enchants. I run exclusively in foundries as there is no interfering with anyone running dailies etc this way. I have made my own foundry with fairly good mob placement so that I am pretty much killing most of the time and my down time is minimal. The foundry runs ~20minutes.
I will start with that I do NOT see a change in the drop distribution. Meaning that the drops I saw were the same percent as they were for mod 4. Data has been posted before but here is quick reminder:
45% peridots
20% white pearls
15% minor res stones
10% lesser res stones
7% aquamarines
2% flawless sapphire
1% black pearl
This is what I observed today and is consistent with mod 4. That said the huge change is in total number of drops.
In mod 4 I could add up the total % of the dragon hoard enchants and that was my expected % of drops from my kills.
For my char 4 enchants * 3% = 12% so say for 834 kills I would see 100 drops and they would be distributed as the %s above and I would see 45 peridots, 20 white pearls, 15 minor res stones etc.
My testing today produced the following results:
Drop Rate 4%. So the same 834 kills from above produced 33 drops. A HUGE difference if you as me. Now the source of the problem I am not sure.
Another stat I track is drops per minute. My mod 4 drops per minute averaged 0.87. Today's testing came in at 0.39.
It could be a couple of things.
1) could be that only one enchantment is actually working so it appears as if ICD is longer but in reality you are just seeing the results of only one enchantment working and that stacking 4 enchants is broken and needs fixing. (One can hope right?)
2) ICD of enchant has been changed to a much longer cool down.
This would take further testing on my side and I just can't do it for about a week till off vacation and on more reliable internet.
I will keep my eye on this thread and add back my test results as I can do them.
Thanks
My tests show that the drop rate is in the range of what is given by the enchants - as long as you don't run foundries.
Also, it is not drops/time but drops/kill. Looking at drops/time is only valid if kills/time is constant.
My conclusion is that - apart from foundries - the Dragon Hoard enchants work like described.