I am sorry but bashing people for farming AD through leadership because you don't think it is "playing the game" or that it is cheap way to earn money is silly. First off, running the same dungeons over and over is no different. You are farming. It isn't any different. I play the game in my own style. I level up each alt by playing the various options, quests, pvp and invoking and with leadership tasks that focus on experience rewards. Right now, I make 1.3 million every four days refined. What is funny is I probably play more of the game than most people that make their AD by "running" CN and all the various same dungeons. I can guarantee You will see twenty of my alts running Shandahar/Dread Ring and IWD at any given time.
I say we decrease it... I'm hardly ever over the cap and even if I am it gets cleared in about a day if not two, I no longer have interest in professions as they are boring and you never get anything besides worthless <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. I do think its funny that all these people spend hours a day doing professions but for them to spend a hour doing dailies is too tedious and time consuming. I'd rather kill the same monsters over and over then spending my time changing chars and clicking collect and start tasks a hundred times or so, even through the gateway.
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
edited November 2014
Currency cap is fine where it is at. It keeps alt-aholics, like myself, and bots from ruining the economy in a runaway effect. It is also in place to keep inflation from raising unchecked. Increase the Refining limit and eventually we'd be right back here with more people asking to raise the cap again. The ones who such would impact the greatest would be the new players, which are the life-blood of an MMO. A runaway economy is the first step into destroying an MMO, from the life-blood up.
The way to combat inflation in an MMO is not to throw more money at it... that's the opposite of what needs to be done. No, the cap is fine. Instead, we need sensible and encouraged repeat purchase AD sinks. Not these over-priced cash cow AD sinks we have now. Heck, our AD Exchange is still maxed out for Sell Offers. This is a clear sign that there is still too much AD in the economy and indicates that the idea of raising the AD limit is the opposite of what needs to be done.
Currency cap is fine where it is at. It keeps alt-aholics, like myself, and bots from ruining the economy in a runaway effect. It is also in place to keep inflation from raising unchecked. Increase the Refining limit and eventually we'd be right back here with more people asking to raise the cap again. The ones who such would impact the greatest would be the new players, which are the life-blood of an MMO. A runaway economy is the first step into destroying an MMO, from the life-blood up.
The way to combat inflation in an MMO is not to throw more money at it... that's the opposite of what needs to be done. No, the cap is fine. Instead, we need sensible and encouraged repeat purchase AD sinks. Not these over-priced cash cow AD sinks we have now.
Bots will never reach the 24k a day limit. If they are botting leadership and invokes they can just make as many bots as they need and do easy tasks. People who grind all day however do make that 24k fairly easily. So once again a system meant to stop bots actually stops regular play from being rewarding.
Until we start seeing ZAX rates in the low 300s, the last thing we need to do is increase AD production. Let's let the economy recover fully before we start futzing with things.
Currency cap is fine where it is at. It keeps alt-aholics, like myself, and bots from ruining the economy in a runaway effect. It is also in place to keep inflation from raising unchecked. Increase the Refining limit and eventually we'd be right back here with more people asking to raise the cap again. The ones who such would impact the greatest would be the new players, which are the life-blood of an MMO. A runaway economy is the first step into destroying an MMO, from the life-blood up.
The way to combat inflation in an MMO is not to throw more money at it... that's the opposite of what needs to be done. No, the cap is fine. Instead, we need sensible and encouraged repeat purchase AD sinks. Not these over-priced cash cow AD sinks we have now. Heck, our AD Exchange is still maxed out for Sell Offers. This is a clear sign that there is still too much AD in the economy and indicated that the idea of raising the AD limit is the opposite of what needs to be done.
There's still the very real issue of a very real cap of how much you can earn by playing a day. In the CN days it was fine, you can just sell your boe loot, however there's even more ways to earn rough AD but no ways to make use of it. It's currently sort of casual and leadership army friendly. The game however has been more and more unfriendly to those that grind a fair amount. Suits me though, I've managed to take advantage.
I'm a casual player with little time to manage x characters at y leadership to generate z AD per day; then to play with the sell AD for Zen, cancel to transfer over to a main. I barely have enough time with the grinding to run a dungeon here or there once or twice per week. I don't play games to do economics that I have to know and use in RL in terms of trying to play the AH which also seems to be a time sink. So yes, I completely agree the artificial limit of refining 24K AD per day is not casual player friendly.
If they want to keep the 24K Ad artificial limit to keep the game extremely grindy, at least they can have the daily's pay in real A.D. vs. raw.
Thank you.
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
I'm a casual player with little time to manage x characters at y leadership to generate z AD per day; then to play with the sell AD for Zen, cancel to transfer over to a main. I barely have enough time with the grinding to run a dungeon here or there once or twice per week. I don't play games to do economics that I have to know and use in RL in terms of trying to play the AH which also seems to be a time sink. So yes, I completely agree the artificial limit of refining 24K AD per day is not casual player friendly.
If they want to keep the 24K Ad artificial limit to keep the game extremely grindy, at least they can have the daily's pay in real A.D. vs. raw.
Thank you.
I really don't understand your point, unless you mean you want everything to be so expensive that you'd have to grind for AD, and nothing else, to afford items. As raising the AD Cap would do just that, which means those items you want to buy with AD would become even more expensive and take even longer to make the AD for, for casual and new players. Also, you'd then flush away any chances of ever seeing the ZAX drop below 500 again.
I really don't understand your point, unless you mean you want everything to be so expensive that you'd have to grind for AD, and nothing else, to afford items. As raising the AD Cap would do just that, which means those items you want to buy with AD would become even more expensive and take even longer to make the AD for, for casual and new players. Also, you'd then flush away any chances of ever seeing the ZAX drop below 500 again.
Casual players tend to want to earn their gear through play, but they can't afford the Bazaar items which requires AD.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited November 2014
I would actually not expect a self-defined casual player to be butting up against the refining cap very often, since they'd not be putting in the time to build up large quantities of unrefined AD. If you're trying to do all the dailies for Rhix every day so that you have no time for anything else... hate to break it to you, but that's not casual play.
@thread
Basically, if you have rank 20 leadership and end up with a glut of rough AD from whatever other activities, do something else with your profession slots instead of continuing to generate more rough AD. Or bank it against some time in the future when you're going to go on vacation or something.
I do have some sympathy for people with too much salvage, from whatever they choose to play, but increasing the refining cap would not give you more purchasing power. AH prices would simply rise accordingly.
khimera906Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 898Arc User
edited November 2014
Some people earn way too much AD with the 24k cap in place. In time you will too. The cap is fine where it is. Rising the cap will cause more harm than good cause of inflation.
I hate dancing with Lady Luck. She always steps on my toes.
The RAD cap is only an issue because there is no way to play your way to a good amount of AD. Used to be able to sell BoEs and make a living and you just can't anymore.
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chemboy613Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,521Arc User
Currency cap is fine where it is at. It keeps alt-aholics, like myself, and bots from ruining the economy in a runaway effect. It is also in place to keep inflation from raising unchecked. Increase the Refining limit and eventually we'd be right back here with more people asking to raise the cap again. The ones who such would impact the greatest would be the new players, which are the life-blood of an MMO. A runaway economy is the first step into destroying an MMO, from the life-blood up.
The way to combat inflation in an MMO is not to throw more money at it... that's the opposite of what needs to be done. No, the cap is fine. Instead, we need sensible and encouraged repeat purchase AD sinks. Not these over-priced cash cow AD sinks we have now. Heck, our AD Exchange is still maxed out for Sell Offers. This is a clear sign that there is still too much AD in the economy and indicates that the idea of raising the AD limit is the opposite of what needs to be done.
Some good points zeb. I would LOVE some more reasonable AD sinks.
I think the issue is having AD we can't use (but would love to spend). Where would that AD go? For me, i love buying keys XD
The RAD cap is only an issue because there is no way to play your way to a good amount of AD. Used to be able to sell BoEs and make a living and you just can't anymore.
I actually agree with this. Since we can't run our way to a good income stream, I am savalaging a ton of BoP items, hence my RAD is astronomical.
It would be nice to have some moderately farmable content rather than "go mobs farm for RP". Hard content with BoE gear is the way to go.
Me and all member of my guild have 500k+ Rough AD to refine, let's be serious;
24k per day isn't enough anymore nowdays.
Especially with all these "Binds on pickup" items and campaigns now: 5k, 5k, 20k, 20k, 50k...
what do you guys think?
Remove Leadership RAD :mad:
That way you actually have players WHO WORK for their AD, rather than doing nothing. You want AD? Invest time and effort to play the game. Learn some skill, get serious about it.
The whole problem is there because people can do nothing and get RAD, they don't even have to go in-game to do so. That's seriously flawed and hurts the play of people who want to buy things without having to invest in the optional stuff.
And, yes, 50.000 RAD to AD on a daily basis is what I suggested back since MOD3. I don't want to play three years just to have a rank 9 enchantment in one slot even if I play six hours daily. :mad: Rewarding system is so low that it's not acceptable.
I've recently finished epic Lair of Lostmauth only to receive a green unidentified item. If that's a joke I'm not amused.
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Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
That way you actually have players WHO WORK for their AD, rather than doing nothing. You want AD? Invest time and effort to play the game. Learn some skill, get serious about it.
The whole problem is there because people can do nothing and get RAD, they don't even have to go in-game to do so. That's seriously flawed and hurts the play of people who want to buy things without having to invest in the optional stuff.
And, yes, 50.000 RAD to AD on a daily basis is what I suggested back since MOD3. I don't want to play three years just to have a rank 9 enchantment in one slot even if I play six hours daily. :mad: Rewarding system is so low that it's not acceptable.
I've recently finished epic Lair of Lostmauth only to receive a green unidentified item. If that's a joke I'm not amused.
Lemme tell you what Cryptic thinks when they think about players working for their ADs. Cryptic thinks a good player whips out his/her credit card and with his/her hard earned RL currency they buy Zen and then sell it for ADs. Any other player is just a fodder or leech for the aforementioned "legit" players.
Also when you play 6 hours of Neverwinter everyday without paying a dime to Cryptic, guess what they think about you.
Each person knows what is "casual" to them; and you don't get to define that for them just as they don't get to define it for you. If I spend 15 minutes here and 15-minutes there doing dailies, and get them done in a day, that's casual for me. I don't see why an aftificial cap of 24K per day nor do I understand why dailies even pay in raw vs. real A.D.
no prices are already too low
24k is more than enough
edit: i m not sure what i wrote is economically right XD
Too low!? Are you mad!! Rare marks of power are almost 100k AD per now. After tomorrow when Mod 5 hits the gold sellers will find a way to farm them and they will be the next thing they cash in on.
100k.........per Mark of power(blue) They cost more now then the greater marks do.
The economy in this game is pretty much destroyed. Anyone who's new to the game is going to learn that in a short time and go elsewhere.
At this point I dont see how the downward spiral can be reversed. Too much grinding, not enough fun, too much cost.
Unless bots are good enough to make 5-man teams of farming pirate king (to acquire purple loot to salvage), I don't see what the point of this is anymore
No. An earning of 24k AD a day is far from enough. However, raising the cap will only encourage lazy players to AFK or more bots in some daily quests. Changes should be made but only to give real and active players across all levels and all gs more ways to earn items or AD (rough or not, doesn't matter).
Players should play (or pay) for the rewards, not AFK or bots to get them free.
No. An earning of 24k AD a day is far from enough. However, raising the cap will only encourage lazy players to AFK or more bots in some daily quests. Changes should be made but only to give real and active players across all levels and all gs more ways to earn items or AD (rough or not, doesn't matter).
Players should play (or pay) for the rewards, not AFK or bots to get them free.
If you were gonna bot, wouldn't botting using the dragon hoard enchants on foundries etc be more profitable?
I mean look at the stacks and stacks of black opals you can get and sell for 1mil ad each as evidenced on the auction house postings?
Seems better to go for that than some measly 24k AD per day.
If you were gonna bot, wouldn't botting using the dragon hoard enchants on foundries etc be more profitable?
I mean look at the stacks and stacks of black opals you can get and sell for 1mil ad each as evidenced on the auction house postings?
Seems better to go for that than some measly 24k AD per day.
Smash the bots first, whether they are in foundry, open world or instances. If you are worry about bots getting even more rewards from foundry or whatever popular means they get their loot, don't apply the enhanced rewards to these means.
The 24k refine limit is simply a gate to limit the amount of currency in the game. If too much REAL AD gets into the game too quickly the game economy will have inflation. (Look at what happened to prices after the resonator exploit... they are still recovering from that now.)
By tossing everything into one Rough AD bucket and only allowing you to refine 24k, it allows them to reward you from different things and not worry about how much Rough AD you earn. This allows someone who has leadership at rank 20, runs Rhix's and Lord Nevers Daily quests, Has a few successful dungeon delves with bound items to salvage, and hit the Jackpot with a Waukeen Strongbox of 256,000 Rad (or whatever the current event may be) not put a big bump into the economy causing a convulsion. The cap is in place so that whatever you do, it is merely a ripple in the economy.
In order not to disrupt the economy with a sudden change, any raising of the cap would need to be done gradually... Maybe increase the cap by 1000 rad every month until it is at a new level. However, I doubt that anything will actually change. A low refine cap is more likely to get people to by zen with RL currency.
Tipps:
sell your heroes/adventurers for real AD, replace them with self created footmen.
LOL! 18 hours each per Mercenary for 16 Mercenaries and another 18 hours to Upgrade into 4 Guards and then another 18 hours to make one Footman? And do that, what? 180 times if you have 10 characters at Rank 20 with 9 slots unlocked?
Better to create the Footmen before you sell your Rare and Epic Professionals!
But it's funny you should say that, as I had no idea I was sitting on over 1 million AD's worth of Footmen.
I had a look at the AH and could not believe that Footmen were going for about 15k!
I had 76!
And it took SO long to train them, but I have long since gone past needing mere Footmen.
I could only put up about 40 for sale at a time, but they all went in about 30 minutes. Next time I looked, the price had shifted up to 16k.
I decided to keep 12 Footmen for my last two character slots and auctioned off the rest.
In this last 24 hour period, I got 114,765 AD from Invocations and Leadership because I only logged in twice, instead of three times.
But I now have 118,730 Unrefined AD on my three "Main" Mains: 72,600, 28,930 and 17,200. I can refine some of those as soon as I finish posting here. I played PvP with all of them for the Glory and Seals and got another pesky 8k rough AD each.
Then I bought some stacks of Rank 6 Runestones for my ALT characters Ioun Stones:
6 Profane, 13,800 AD
6 Empowered, 15,000 AD
9 Eldritch, 25,000 AD
I'll upgrade most of these to rank 7 with all the stuff I am getting from barrels, chests, coffers and drops. The spare 3 Eldritch I might sell.
I don't usually try and "flip" the AH, but I accidentally bought a larger stack of Rank 5 Empowered at a bargain price, so I sold them individually for about 1500 more than they cost me, including AH cut.
So although today I have put a few dozen thousand AD IN to the economy, I have also taken about 900k OUT of it by selling my spare Footmen.
And most of that will go into official AD Sinks. Marks of Potency and upgrading Green Ioun Stones of Radiance are the first to spring to mind...
Doing professions on one character is playing the game. Farming leadership on 12 characters purely for the AD is not playing the game. It's obsessively using a particular mechanic of the game purely for the AD gains.
...that's hardly the same as actively using 12 characters and playing them regularly.
I do play them regularly. That's why I have no Black Ice gear or Artifact gear. As I said, I have DO, AC, WK and TR Mains with Profound Gear sets and Rank 7 and 8 Enchants and Runes and a GWF, GF and HR semi-mains. The GF is the only one of the three that does not have all Rank 7 Enchants and runes. I also have a Dwarf AC with Grim Gear (my second character - my first is the Tiefling AC), but I retired him as a leadership mule as the Dwarf DO (my 12th character with Profound Righteous/Virtuous) is just better.
I bought the character slots so I could try all the classes and different races. But then I found out how slow the power progression and refining is, so once I had played them to about level 30, most of them became Leadership mules in favour of advancing my Main characters.
And there's nothing "obsessive" about it. Running 1000 CN runs so you can steal other people's drops to sell on the AH is what I'd call "obsessive".
I have no sympathy for those who have hundreds of thousands of rough AD sitting around because they take hours everyday farming leadership on their 20 alts.
As I also said in my first post, there is no way you can get more than 24k AD per day just from Leadership. You would need 18 Heroes, 9 slots open, lots of Siege Engines, Mining Claims and Marks of Gratitude and log in every 6 hours to do that.
Most of the people with excessive rough AD are "obsessive" farmers doing 1000 Epic runs and salvaging gear on their single "Main" because they were too tight to pay for additional character slots.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited November 2014
Zeb hit the nail on the head: raising the AD cap is the opposite of what everybody wants.
I saw one post which cited high prices on items as the cause for needing AD.
This is actually backwards.
Supply and Demand is the backbone to everything in terms of economics including the value of currency. When supply goes up value goes down, when supply goes down value goes up. When demand goes up value goes up, when demand goes down value goes down. This is an economic law.
As such if you increase the refinement cap you will increase the supply of currency. That will make the currency, not the items, less valuable. As such the amount of currency needed to buy said items will increase.
This is not debatable. If you ask any person who has not fallen asleep on day one in Economics 101 they can tell you this is 100% accurate 100% of the time when discussing market value.
As such when you see an item selling for the AD equivalence of $10 in Zen that item is worth $10. If you increase the amount of AD coming into the game you will not make the item fall in value but rather increase the amount of AD required to be worth $10.
This is the complete opposite of what everybody in this thread wants. If you think that increasing the amount of AD people can refine would be friendlier to new players you are wrong. It would make it less friendly as they would need to farm even more AD than they currently do.
The only way to make the game more new player friendly is to make the time spent within the game worth more. This is done by reducing the amount of AD in the game. If you reduce the amount of AD in the game it will increase in value. This means those items worth $10 will require less AD to be purchased. This is what every person in this thread has wanted.
That is the only way short of putting artificial limits to achieve reduced AD costs for items.
There are two ways to reduce the amount of AD in the game. The first way is to reduce the Refinement Cap. Nobody wants to do this. The second way is to increase the amount of AD sinks being used.
The latter is something the mods have been vocal about since the game launched.
We want the prices of all the AD sinks drastically reduced. They listened and brought down some (hence why the Zen Exchange has not gone back to the 13M AD backlog). However more reductions are needed. The marketing team seems to rely on whales for *all* purchases but this is just...I am opposed to this mentality in every walk of life.
Look at Mohammad Ali. Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee...he didn't win by throwing everything in one punch. The world DOES NOT work that way.
What makes more money? One person out of a hundred spending 50 dollars on an item or 80 people out of a hundred spending 5 dollars. Economies do NOT operate on the 1%ers. Economies operate on the masses. If all of the AD sinks were less expensive more people would use them rather than ignore them.
And once people use AD sinks and the AD generated leaves the economy on a more widespread level we'll see prices for all items decrease as we would need to farm less AD to generate the same amount of Zen.
24k is more than enough, once you have more than 4 characters Besides, everything is not as expensive as it used to be during AD inflation. Increasing 24k cap would work against you, trust me.
That way you actually have players WHO WORK for their AD, rather than doing nothing. You want AD? Invest time and effort to play the game. Learn some skill, get serious about it.
If you want players that only have time for a maximum of 2 hours per day to be at an economic disadvantage just say so.
I really did miss the word "unfair" in your post.
If you want players that only have time for a maximum of 2 hours per day to be at an economic disadvantage just say so.
I really did miss the word "unfair" in your post.
^This.
I'm always amazed at how so many are such mind-readers that they always *know* how all the other players like to play or what they will always do and want. Such opinion is ridiculous elitism at best.
What Zeb and others have said: more sinks are needed, not a RAD refining cap increase. As for all of you sporting this idea on the basis of knowing what other players do and want: you aren't all that insightful. Hardly so.
As for having professions and those "not really playing the game": Seriously? That's your intellectual best? Check yourself for what you're saying; doing Professions well takes a little brain-power to manage to most efficiency, where I might quip: Mouse button-mashing is a brainless activity and isn't really playing the game. See what I did there?
This kind of debate is academic at best. The short answer: it's not going to change and thankfully so.
Comments
The way to combat inflation in an MMO is not to throw more money at it... that's the opposite of what needs to be done. No, the cap is fine. Instead, we need sensible and encouraged repeat purchase AD sinks. Not these over-priced cash cow AD sinks we have now. Heck, our AD Exchange is still maxed out for Sell Offers. This is a clear sign that there is still too much AD in the economy and indicates that the idea of raising the AD limit is the opposite of what needs to be done.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
Bots will never reach the 24k a day limit. If they are botting leadership and invokes they can just make as many bots as they need and do easy tasks. People who grind all day however do make that 24k fairly easily. So once again a system meant to stop bots actually stops regular play from being rewarding.
There's still the very real issue of a very real cap of how much you can earn by playing a day. In the CN days it was fine, you can just sell your boe loot, however there's even more ways to earn rough AD but no ways to make use of it. It's currently sort of casual and leadership army friendly. The game however has been more and more unfriendly to those that grind a fair amount. Suits me though, I've managed to take advantage.
I'm a casual player with little time to manage x characters at y leadership to generate z AD per day; then to play with the sell AD for Zen, cancel to transfer over to a main. I barely have enough time with the grinding to run a dungeon here or there once or twice per week. I don't play games to do economics that I have to know and use in RL in terms of trying to play the AH which also seems to be a time sink. So yes, I completely agree the artificial limit of refining 24K AD per day is not casual player friendly.
If they want to keep the 24K Ad artificial limit to keep the game extremely grindy, at least they can have the daily's pay in real A.D. vs. raw.
Thank you.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
Casual players tend to want to earn their gear through play, but they can't afford the Bazaar items which requires AD.
@thread
Basically, if you have rank 20 leadership and end up with a glut of rough AD from whatever other activities, do something else with your profession slots instead of continuing to generate more rough AD. Or bank it against some time in the future when you're going to go on vacation or something.
I do have some sympathy for people with too much salvage, from whatever they choose to play, but increasing the refining cap would not give you more purchasing power. AH prices would simply rise accordingly.
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All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Some good points zeb. I would LOVE some more reasonable AD sinks.
I think the issue is having AD we can't use (but would love to spend). Where would that AD go? For me, i love buying keys XD
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
I actually agree with this. Since we can't run our way to a good income stream, I am savalaging a ton of BoP items, hence my RAD is astronomical.
It would be nice to have some moderately farmable content rather than "go mobs farm for RP". Hard content with BoE gear is the way to go.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
Remove Leadership RAD :mad:
That way you actually have players WHO WORK for their AD, rather than doing nothing. You want AD? Invest time and effort to play the game. Learn some skill, get serious about it.
The whole problem is there because people can do nothing and get RAD, they don't even have to go in-game to do so. That's seriously flawed and hurts the play of people who want to buy things without having to invest in the optional stuff.
And, yes, 50.000 RAD to AD on a daily basis is what I suggested back since MOD3. I don't want to play three years just to have a rank 9 enchantment in one slot even if I play six hours daily. :mad: Rewarding system is so low that it's not acceptable.
I've recently finished epic Lair of Lostmauth only to receive a green unidentified item. If that's a joke I'm not amused.
Lemme tell you what Cryptic thinks when they think about players working for their ADs. Cryptic thinks a good player whips out his/her credit card and with his/her hard earned RL currency they buy Zen and then sell it for ADs. Any other player is just a fodder or leech for the aforementioned "legit" players.
Also when you play 6 hours of Neverwinter everyday without paying a dime to Cryptic, guess what they think about you.
Anyway, refine cap is fine, leadership is fine.
Each person knows what is "casual" to them; and you don't get to define that for them just as they don't get to define it for you. If I spend 15 minutes here and 15-minutes there doing dailies, and get them done in a day, that's casual for me. I don't see why an aftificial cap of 24K per day nor do I understand why dailies even pay in raw vs. real A.D.
Thank you.
Too low!? Are you mad!! Rare marks of power are almost 100k AD per now. After tomorrow when Mod 5 hits the gold sellers will find a way to farm them and they will be the next thing they cash in on.
100k.........per Mark of power(blue) They cost more now then the greater marks do.
The economy in this game is pretty much destroyed. Anyone who's new to the game is going to learn that in a short time and go elsewhere.
At this point I dont see how the downward spiral can be reversed. Too much grinding, not enough fun, too much cost.
Players should play (or pay) for the rewards, not AFK or bots to get them free.
If you were gonna bot, wouldn't botting using the dragon hoard enchants on foundries etc be more profitable?
I mean look at the stacks and stacks of black opals you can get and sell for 1mil ad each as evidenced on the auction house postings?
Seems better to go for that than some measly 24k AD per day.
Smash the bots first, whether they are in foundry, open world or instances. If you are worry about bots getting even more rewards from foundry or whatever popular means they get their loot, don't apply the enhanced rewards to these means.
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By tossing everything into one Rough AD bucket and only allowing you to refine 24k, it allows them to reward you from different things and not worry about how much Rough AD you earn. This allows someone who has leadership at rank 20, runs Rhix's and Lord Nevers Daily quests, Has a few successful dungeon delves with bound items to salvage, and hit the Jackpot with a Waukeen Strongbox of 256,000 Rad (or whatever the current event may be) not put a big bump into the economy causing a convulsion. The cap is in place so that whatever you do, it is merely a ripple in the economy.
In order not to disrupt the economy with a sudden change, any raising of the cap would need to be done gradually... Maybe increase the cap by 1000 rad every month until it is at a new level. However, I doubt that anything will actually change. A low refine cap is more likely to get people to by zen with RL currency.
Murphster - SS CW | Jennsen Rahl - MoF CW
Taarna - GWF
Eowyn - Protector OP | Leela - Devoted OP
Mara Jade - TR
Leeloo - Tempt SW | Kahlan Amnell - Fury SW | Galadriel - Damnation SW
Sturm Nightblade - GF
LOL! 18 hours each per Mercenary for 16 Mercenaries and another 18 hours to Upgrade into 4 Guards and then another 18 hours to make one Footman? And do that, what? 180 times if you have 10 characters at Rank 20 with 9 slots unlocked?
Better to create the Footmen before you sell your Rare and Epic Professionals!
But it's funny you should say that, as I had no idea I was sitting on over 1 million AD's worth of Footmen.
I had a look at the AH and could not believe that Footmen were going for about 15k!
I had 76!
And it took SO long to train them, but I have long since gone past needing mere Footmen.
I could only put up about 40 for sale at a time, but they all went in about 30 minutes. Next time I looked, the price had shifted up to 16k.
I decided to keep 12 Footmen for my last two character slots and auctioned off the rest.
In this last 24 hour period, I got 114,765 AD from Invocations and Leadership because I only logged in twice, instead of three times.
But I now have 118,730 Unrefined AD on my three "Main" Mains: 72,600, 28,930 and 17,200. I can refine some of those as soon as I finish posting here. I played PvP with all of them for the Glory and Seals and got another pesky 8k rough AD each.
Then I bought some stacks of Rank 6 Runestones for my ALT characters Ioun Stones:
6 Profane, 13,800 AD
6 Empowered, 15,000 AD
9 Eldritch, 25,000 AD
I'll upgrade most of these to rank 7 with all the stuff I am getting from barrels, chests, coffers and drops. The spare 3 Eldritch I might sell.
I don't usually try and "flip" the AH, but I accidentally bought a larger stack of Rank 5 Empowered at a bargain price, so I sold them individually for about 1500 more than they cost me, including AH cut.
So although today I have put a few dozen thousand AD IN to the economy, I have also taken about 900k OUT of it by selling my spare Footmen.
And most of that will go into official AD Sinks. Marks of Potency and upgrading Green Ioun Stones of Radiance are the first to spring to mind...
Although I could open our 5th Guild Vault...
~
I do play them regularly. That's why I have no Black Ice gear or Artifact gear. As I said, I have DO, AC, WK and TR Mains with Profound Gear sets and Rank 7 and 8 Enchants and Runes and a GWF, GF and HR semi-mains. The GF is the only one of the three that does not have all Rank 7 Enchants and runes. I also have a Dwarf AC with Grim Gear (my second character - my first is the Tiefling AC), but I retired him as a leadership mule as the Dwarf DO (my 12th character with Profound Righteous/Virtuous) is just better.
I bought the character slots so I could try all the classes and different races. But then I found out how slow the power progression and refining is, so once I had played them to about level 30, most of them became Leadership mules in favour of advancing my Main characters.
And there's nothing "obsessive" about it. Running 1000 CN runs so you can steal other people's drops to sell on the AH is what I'd call "obsessive".
As I also said in my first post, there is no way you can get more than 24k AD per day just from Leadership. You would need 18 Heroes, 9 slots open, lots of Siege Engines, Mining Claims and Marks of Gratitude and log in every 6 hours to do that.
Most of the people with excessive rough AD are "obsessive" farmers doing 1000 Epic runs and salvaging gear on their single "Main" because they were too tight to pay for additional character slots.
I saw one post which cited high prices on items as the cause for needing AD.
This is actually backwards.
Supply and Demand is the backbone to everything in terms of economics including the value of currency. When supply goes up value goes down, when supply goes down value goes up. When demand goes up value goes up, when demand goes down value goes down. This is an economic law.
As such if you increase the refinement cap you will increase the supply of currency. That will make the currency, not the items, less valuable. As such the amount of currency needed to buy said items will increase.
This is not debatable. If you ask any person who has not fallen asleep on day one in Economics 101 they can tell you this is 100% accurate 100% of the time when discussing market value.
As such when you see an item selling for the AD equivalence of $10 in Zen that item is worth $10. If you increase the amount of AD coming into the game you will not make the item fall in value but rather increase the amount of AD required to be worth $10.
This is the complete opposite of what everybody in this thread wants. If you think that increasing the amount of AD people can refine would be friendlier to new players you are wrong. It would make it less friendly as they would need to farm even more AD than they currently do.
The only way to make the game more new player friendly is to make the time spent within the game worth more. This is done by reducing the amount of AD in the game. If you reduce the amount of AD in the game it will increase in value. This means those items worth $10 will require less AD to be purchased. This is what every person in this thread has wanted.
That is the only way short of putting artificial limits to achieve reduced AD costs for items.
There are two ways to reduce the amount of AD in the game. The first way is to reduce the Refinement Cap. Nobody wants to do this. The second way is to increase the amount of AD sinks being used.
The latter is something the mods have been vocal about since the game launched.
We want the prices of all the AD sinks drastically reduced. They listened and brought down some (hence why the Zen Exchange has not gone back to the 13M AD backlog). However more reductions are needed. The marketing team seems to rely on whales for *all* purchases but this is just...I am opposed to this mentality in every walk of life.
Look at Mohammad Ali. Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee...he didn't win by throwing everything in one punch. The world DOES NOT work that way.
What makes more money? One person out of a hundred spending 50 dollars on an item or 80 people out of a hundred spending 5 dollars. Economies do NOT operate on the 1%ers. Economies operate on the masses. If all of the AD sinks were less expensive more people would use them rather than ignore them.
And once people use AD sinks and the AD generated leaves the economy on a more widespread level we'll see prices for all items decrease as we would need to farm less AD to generate the same amount of Zen.
WTB Class Reroll please
I really did miss the word "unfair" in your post.
^This.
I'm always amazed at how so many are such mind-readers that they always *know* how all the other players like to play or what they will always do and want. Such opinion is ridiculous elitism at best.
What Zeb and others have said: more sinks are needed, not a RAD refining cap increase. As for all of you sporting this idea on the basis of knowing what other players do and want: you aren't all that insightful. Hardly so.
As for having professions and those "not really playing the game": Seriously? That's your intellectual best? Check yourself for what you're saying; doing Professions well takes a little brain-power to manage to most efficiency, where I might quip: Mouse button-mashing is a brainless activity and isn't really playing the game. See what I did there?
This kind of debate is academic at best. The short answer: it's not going to change and thankfully so.