Doing professions on one character is playing the game. Farming leadership on 12 characters purely for the AD is not playing the game. It's obsessively using a particular mechanic of the game purely for the AD gains.
...that's hardly the same as actively using 12 characters and playing them regularly.
I do play them regularly. That's why I have no Black Ice gear or Artifact gear. As I said, I have DO, AC, WK and TR Mains with Profound Gear sets and Rank 7 and 8 Enchants and Runes and a GWF, GF and HR semi-mains. The GF is the only one of the three that does not have all Rank 7 Enchants and runes. I also have a Dwarf AC with Grim Gear (my second character - my first is the Tiefling AC), but I retired him as a leadership mule as the Dwarf DO (my 12th character with Profound Righteous/Virtuous) is just better.
I bought the character slots so I could try all the classes and different races. But then I found out how slow the power progression and refining is, so once I had played them to about level 30, most of them became Leadership mules in favour of advancing my Main characters.
And there's nothing "obsessive" about it. Running 1000 CN runs so you can steal other people's drops to sell on the AH is what I'd call "obsessive".
I have no sympathy for those who have hundreds of thousands of rough AD sitting around because they take hours everyday farming leadership on their 20 alts.
As I also said in my first post, there is no way you can get more than 24k AD per day just from Leadership. You would need 18 Heroes, 9 slots open, lots of Siege Engines, Mining Claims and Marks of Gratitude and log in every 6 hours to do that.
Most of the people with excessive rough AD are "obsessive" farmers doing 1000 Epic runs and salvaging gear on their single "Main" because they were too tight to pay for additional character slots.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited November 2014
Zeb hit the nail on the head: raising the AD cap is the opposite of what everybody wants.
I saw one post which cited high prices on items as the cause for needing AD.
This is actually backwards.
Supply and Demand is the backbone to everything in terms of economics including the value of currency. When supply goes up value goes down, when supply goes down value goes up. When demand goes up value goes up, when demand goes down value goes down. This is an economic law.
As such if you increase the refinement cap you will increase the supply of currency. That will make the currency, not the items, less valuable. As such the amount of currency needed to buy said items will increase.
This is not debatable. If you ask any person who has not fallen asleep on day one in Economics 101 they can tell you this is 100% accurate 100% of the time when discussing market value.
As such when you see an item selling for the AD equivalence of $10 in Zen that item is worth $10. If you increase the amount of AD coming into the game you will not make the item fall in value but rather increase the amount of AD required to be worth $10.
This is the complete opposite of what everybody in this thread wants. If you think that increasing the amount of AD people can refine would be friendlier to new players you are wrong. It would make it less friendly as they would need to farm even more AD than they currently do.
The only way to make the game more new player friendly is to make the time spent within the game worth more. This is done by reducing the amount of AD in the game. If you reduce the amount of AD in the game it will increase in value. This means those items worth $10 will require less AD to be purchased. This is what every person in this thread has wanted.
That is the only way short of putting artificial limits to achieve reduced AD costs for items.
There are two ways to reduce the amount of AD in the game. The first way is to reduce the Refinement Cap. Nobody wants to do this. The second way is to increase the amount of AD sinks being used.
The latter is something the mods have been vocal about since the game launched.
We want the prices of all the AD sinks drastically reduced. They listened and brought down some (hence why the Zen Exchange has not gone back to the 13M AD backlog). However more reductions are needed. The marketing team seems to rely on whales for *all* purchases but this is just...I am opposed to this mentality in every walk of life.
Look at Mohammad Ali. Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee...he didn't win by throwing everything in one punch. The world DOES NOT work that way.
What makes more money? One person out of a hundred spending 50 dollars on an item or 80 people out of a hundred spending 5 dollars. Economies do NOT operate on the 1%ers. Economies operate on the masses. If all of the AD sinks were less expensive more people would use them rather than ignore them.
And once people use AD sinks and the AD generated leaves the economy on a more widespread level we'll see prices for all items decrease as we would need to farm less AD to generate the same amount of Zen.
24k is more than enough, once you have more than 4 characters Besides, everything is not as expensive as it used to be during AD inflation. Increasing 24k cap would work against you, trust me.
That way you actually have players WHO WORK for their AD, rather than doing nothing. You want AD? Invest time and effort to play the game. Learn some skill, get serious about it.
If you want players that only have time for a maximum of 2 hours per day to be at an economic disadvantage just say so.
I really did miss the word "unfair" in your post.
If you want players that only have time for a maximum of 2 hours per day to be at an economic disadvantage just say so.
I really did miss the word "unfair" in your post.
^This.
I'm always amazed at how so many are such mind-readers that they always *know* how all the other players like to play or what they will always do and want. Such opinion is ridiculous elitism at best.
What Zeb and others have said: more sinks are needed, not a RAD refining cap increase. As for all of you sporting this idea on the basis of knowing what other players do and want: you aren't all that insightful. Hardly so.
As for having professions and those "not really playing the game": Seriously? That's your intellectual best? Check yourself for what you're saying; doing Professions well takes a little brain-power to manage to most efficiency, where I might quip: Mouse button-mashing is a brainless activity and isn't really playing the game. See what I did there?
This kind of debate is academic at best. The short answer: it's not going to change and thankfully so.
Zeb hit the nail on the head: raising the AD cap is the opposite of what everybody wants.
I saw one post which cited high prices on items as the cause for needing AD.
This is actually backwards.
Supply and Demand is the backbone to everything in terms of economics including the value of currency. When supply goes up value goes down, when supply goes down value goes up. When demand goes up value goes up, when demand goes down value goes down. This is an economic law.
As such if you increase the refinement cap you will increase the supply of currency. That will make the currency, not the items, less valuable. As such the amount of currency needed to buy said items will increase.
This is not debatable. If you ask any person who has not fallen asleep on day one in Economics 101 they can tell you this is 100% accurate 100% of the time when discussing market value.
As such when you see an item selling for the AD equivalence of $10 in Zen that item is worth $10. If you increase the amount of AD coming into the game you will not make the item fall in value but rather increase the amount of AD required to be worth $10.
This is the complete opposite of what everybody in this thread wants. If you think that increasing the amount of AD people can refine would be friendlier to new players you are wrong. It would make it less friendly as they would need to farm even more AD than they currently do.
The only way to make the game more new player friendly is to make the time spent within the game worth more. This is done by reducing the amount of AD in the game. If you reduce the amount of AD in the game it will increase in value. This means those items worth $10 will require less AD to be purchased. This is what every person in this thread has wanted.
That is the only way short of putting artificial limits to achieve reduced AD costs for items.
There are two ways to reduce the amount of AD in the game. The first way is to reduce the Refinement Cap. Nobody wants to do this. The second way is to increase the amount of AD sinks being used.
The latter is something the mods have been vocal about since the game launched.
We want the prices of all the AD sinks drastically reduced. They listened and brought down some (hence why the Zen Exchange has not gone back to the 13M AD backlog). However more reductions are needed. The marketing team seems to rely on whales for *all* purchases but this is just...I am opposed to this mentality in every walk of life.
Look at Mohammad Ali. Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee...he didn't win by throwing everything in one punch. The world DOES NOT work that way.
What makes more money? One person out of a hundred spending 50 dollars on an item or 80 people out of a hundred spending 5 dollars. Economies do NOT operate on the 1%ers. Economies operate on the masses. If all of the AD sinks were less expensive more people would use them rather than ignore them.
And once people use AD sinks and the AD generated leaves the economy on a more widespread level we'll see prices for all items decrease as we would need to farm less AD to generate the same amount of Zen.
all that is well and good, and also very true. Except for one thing. A good majority of the playerbase from the discussions I've had both in and out of the forums, do not believe that the people at Cryptic or Perfect World care. Pretty much the entire circle I run with feel that Perfect World and Cryptic's solution to this is for the playerbase to "suck it up buttercup" and whip out the old Credit card.
Now I understand that the game needs to make money, and that's why the people on that side of the equation do this. But I look at what's happening and I am sure you wont have to go far to find others who agree, that They could give a flying monkey's poo less whether this is harder on the playerbase or not.
The model of the game seems more to draw people in and make money till they get frustrated and leave then it is to insure a long term playerbase that spends less amount of money but over a longer period of time will come out ahead.
That is the opinion on this side of the monitor. Whether that's true or not I cant say. I've never known Cryptic to use a project up and discard it the way some companies (who I wont bother to name but we all know who they are) do. But still. That's the opinion that's out there at least with some of the playerbase.
I am part of a very large guild that crosses at least a dozen MMO's and I've watched our numbers in Neverwinter go from the high 30s to single digits within the last 2 months alone. While in most of the other games the numbers have stayed the same or grown.
Turnover is a part of every mmo. Most people play a game for awhile, get bored with it or jump to the next shiny new MMO that is released, but with all the problems this game has had. (Caturday being only the first) People are just wondering what blunder will be next. Add that to this problem with the over-inflation of rare marks of power and the huge RP sink and you have a losing combination. Oh, and throw in with all the new bind to account restrictions on the game new players can never, ever, catch up to those that still have millions to billions of AD stored around the game.
Zeb hit the nail on the head: raising the AD cap is the opposite of what everybody wants.
The only way to make the game more new player friendly is to make the time spent within the game worth more. This is done by reducing the amount of AD in the game. If you reduce the amount of AD in the game it will increase in value. This means those items worth $10 will require less AD to be purchased. This is what every person in this thread has wanted.
We want the prices of all the AD sinks drastically reduced. They listened and brought down some (hence why the Zen Exchange has not gone back to the 13M AD backlog). However more reductions are needed. The marketing team seems to rely on whales for *all* purchases but this is just...I am opposed to this mentality in every walk of life.
And once people use AD sinks and the AD generated leaves the economy on a more widespread level we'll see prices for all items decrease as we would need to farm less AD to generate the same amount of Zen.
Good points.
On a completely different side note, I don't think the newer players are going to be happy with the coming BoP status on refining items . . . (hijack?)
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!" pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all." looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
Turnover is a part of every mmo. Most people play a game for awhile, get bored with it or jump to the next shiny new MMO that is released, but with all the problems this game has had. (Caturday being only the first) People are just wondering what blunder will be next. Add that to this problem with the over-inflation of rare marks of power and the huge RP sink and you have a losing combination. Oh, and throw in with all the new bind to account restrictions on the game new players can never, ever, catch up to those that still have millions to billions of AD stored around the game.
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!" pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all." looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
The model of the game seems more to draw people in and make money till they get frustrated and leave then it is to insure a long term playerbase that spends less amount of money but over a longer period of time will come out ahead.
Well, it's like planned obsolescence, just the other way around.
once you hit level 60 and have a few boons you have outlived your usefulness. You either have already invested money in the game for some items, making it unlikely you spend more, or you are an AD grinder that will never invest. You are no longer the primary business target of the game.
You may not like it, but you might want to accept it.
All the ranting will not change a good working business model. And the "good" is not necessarily from your point of view.
I would say 35K limit per day sounds right, for a few reasons:
-It allows more to be refined a day.
-I have thought about this, too.. but something like 50K just screams "prices will go up even more, because players can earn than much more, that much faster."
-Make it something like achieving a 1K bonus per Domination and cap it at 10. Successfully completing all 10 should be another 5K, or a bonus of 5K for winning at least half of the matches.
-Make it something like achieving a 1K bonus per Domination and cap it at 10. Successfully completing all 10 should be another 5K, or a bonus of 5K for winning at least half of the matches.
I do play them regularly. That's why I have no Black Ice gear or Artifact gear.
I bought the character slots so I could try all the classes and different races. But then I found out how slow the power progression and refining is, so once I had played them to about level 30, most of them became Leadership mules in favour of advancing my Main characters.
Good for you. It's not bashing to suggest that buying new character slots, creating new characters, and using them solely to boost AD gain by farming leadership isn't playing the game the way it was designed to be played. Note that we don't have an obligation to play the game as designed either, only not to abuse it, but I don't see why we should reward people who aren't even attempting to actually play and are merely trying to make themselves insanely wealthy when that mechanic could have devastating consequences for all the other players. This isn't about people like you, who is playing multiple characters for a reason and then discovers it's simply not worth it. It's about the tactic that has been posted, recited, and recommended on these forums for a long time as a way to generate lots of AD to support a playstyle that caters only to the extreme elitists and people who have all day to play. I see no reason to favor those players over the casual players who make up the base of people Cryptic is targeting and is more likely to spend money to get ahead. Cryptic should definitely realize the flaws in their game if it turns off people with multiple characters from regularly playing those characters and turning them into leadership mules because as you pointed out, "it's not worth it."
And there's nothing "obsessive" about it. Running 1000 CN runs so you can steal other people's drops to sell on the AH is what I'd call "obsessive".
Most of the people with excessive rough AD are "obsessive" farmers doing 1000 Epic runs and salvaging gear on their single "Main" because they were too tight to pay for additional character slots.
I would agree with that but the point has also been made that there aren't enough ways to earn AD to satisfy those players, hence the reason for the obsessive behavior, but I don't see how farming leadership on 20 characters is any less obsessive than running dungeons over and over again for the salvage. It takes less time to farm leadership, for certain, but those people have hours and hours to play and at least they're playing! The developers certainly shouldn't fix the problem by inflating currency any more than governments should.
As I also said in my first post, there is no way you can get more than 24k AD per day just from Leadership. You would need 18 Heroes, 9 slots open, lots of Siege Engines, Mining Claims and Marks of Gratitude and log in every 6 hours to do that.
Yes, but with 20 characters, you can make a lot of AD with little to no effort. Increasing that amount would be insane.
i think the proper solution(not really, more like suggestion) is that they make rough astral diamonds common to all characters and the limit is the number of all character multiplied by 24,000 , and to add an option to choose how much to refine. (instead of transferring AD between characters all the time through zen exchange)
another suggestion, is that invoking gives you an additional 1k refining limit (maybe upto 3k).
But i personally find this topic useless as any changes will occur to all users and will help no one but cause inflation as everyone mentioned (don't forget that zen price is capped, so raising the cap would be necessary to allow zen sellers to balance the demand)
As I also said in my first post, there is no way you can get more than 24k AD per day just from Leadership. You would need 18 Heroes, 9 slots open, lots of Siege Engines, Mining Claims and Marks of Gratitude and log in every 6 hours to do that.;)
This is incorrect in my opinion^ You dont need 18 Heroes to achieve more than 24k rad per day.
I get 24k-30k RAD every day with 20 leadership on 8 chars. My best has been 42kRAD. 3 chars have 9 slots, the rest have 8. I use 1 Adventurer/1Man at arms in each slot. And I use the Gateway. Invoke 3x plus augment with skirmish or anything else that gives Rad IF the Rare tasks dont come up that would give you at least 24kRad in any 24hr period.
All my chars make at least 12 mining claims each day to take care of the protecting diamond task (3) + (9) more for Deliver metals. Once that's achieved, fill in the blanks with anything else that is available.
As far as Marks of Grat and Siege engines go, they drop fairly often in the very rare chests for me, so on those days I get those rare tasks to pop, I can get more than 24K that given day. Regardless, for 8 chars, I'm refining 192kAD per day=1,344,000 AD weekly
MAA are cheap to buy, especially when people do a run on lockboxes and the price drops below 20k. Same for Adventurers, when the price drops below 80k, it starts to be attractive for considering a buy, When I see the price go below 75K I get one, since thats cheaper in cost (4MAA@20k+) plus 18hours to upgrade to Adventurer.
Given this might be a huge cost upfront if just starting out for new players, but if you plan on playing this game for the long haul, it's worth it. For me it has since I started at Beta last year.
...The second way is to increase the amount of AD sinks being used.
The latter is something the mods have been vocal about since the game launched.
We want the prices of all the AD sinks drastically reduced.
<snip>
And once people use AD sinks and the AD generated leaves the economy on a more widespread level we'll see prices for all items decrease as we would need to farm less AD to generate the same amount of Zen.
Oh, I SO agree with this. Maybe they never revised the sink costs much precisely because there WERE so many people making millions from farming dungeons in the first six months? They made dungeon items BoP instead.
In fact, a few months ago I posted a list of desirable new AD Sinks based on what is already available and their suggested prices based on what is currently available and their costs in Tarmalune Trade Bars, Zen and AD.
By the way, new players - NEVER spend Trade Bars on Preservation Wards. They are ludicrously over-priced compared with Coalescence Wards. They are only 100 Zen (50k AD) for 10 from the Zen Market, which has been cheaper than the AH for months. The Trade Bar price is just stupid. It should be divided by 10. The Trade Bar price of Coalescence Wards is much more in keeping with the Zen Price.
And NEVER buy from the AH unless it is CHEAPER than the Wondrous Bazaar and cheaper than converting or buying Zen.
As for AD Sinks, the cost of a White Pearl is 6 AD per RP! Why would ANYone EVER pay that when you can get 99 on the AH for less than 1200 AD? And free drops from Dragonhoards? I know I bought at least a dozen stacks; I also bought several dozen stacks of Peridots; and with 12 level 60s, 4 Mains and 3 semi-Mains, I really need them. I usually go by the AD/RP ratio - the Lower the Number, the Clincher the Sale. The higher the RP value of the Stone, the higher the AD/RP ratio and it gets less efficient; it saves time on refining, so it is more time-efficient, but I always go by Value For Money (or Value For AD in this case).
And Flawless Sapphires? 30k AD for 5,000 RP (6 AD per RP again) when you could buy a stack of 99 for 435k, or about 4,394 AD EACH?
That's 0.879 AD per RP! I still bought the 99 Peridots for 12k, though, as that is only 0.24 AD per RP. And I rarely refine anything above Rank 7.
All colours of Power/Union/Stability Stones and all colours of Marks of Power/Union/Stability should ALSO be added to AD sinks.
And now, Resonance Stones as well.
I won't even go into the daft price of upgrading a Tier 1 mount to Tier 3 on a SINGLE character. It was cheaper for me to buy a Leopard of Chult in the recent sale. So now I have FOUR Epic, Tier 3, Account-Wide Mounts. Dawn Unicorn for the Elf Ranger and Priestesses of Good Deities, Yeth Hound for the Assassins and SWs, White Tiger for the Dwarves and Leopard of Chult for the Halfling Ranger, GWF (she's an Amazon in Courtesan's gear dyed Green and Gold) and GF.
It does nothing for their Power, efficiency or play-style, but they do look nicer from a role-playing perspective. :rolleyes:
Shame about the Tier 2 Medium Pharaoh Steed. What a waste of 750 Trade Bars THAT was...
The problem is not people who spend time doing leadership!
The problem is the billions of AD that got into the game through exploits and was moved over to other toons before accounts were banned!
I never claimed that people who farm leadership are a problem in the game. I just pointed out that it's a lame way to generate AD and I acknowledged that people do it because there aren't better ways to generate AD. Also, without the refinement cap, all those folks generated all that AD would CERTAINLY be a problem by flooding the market with their army of Leadership characters making tons of AD.
Also, without the refinement cap, all those folks generated all that AD would CERTAINLY be a problem by flooding the market with their army of Leadership characters making tons of AD.
It really wouldn't. I make about half that as a safe estimate, but probably more than that. Increasing the cap wouldn't help them since you're limited by time for your tasks, there's only so much rough ad you can earn. It actually devalues it since basically the only way to get over that, is by playing.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited November 2014
With a full team of adventurers (not heroes), I can come fairly close to capping most days just from leadership, provided I get some salvage or the odd daily in there to make up gaps when the diamond shipments don't pop. This does take some micromanagement.
Raising the cap would not cause me to generate more AD from leadership unless I started using faster dudes and changing them more often (yecchhhh). It would require doing more dailies or salvaging more stuff, and I can only do that on a limited number of characters.
Increasing the cap would be largely "beneficial" to people with an excess of RAD from bound epic loot from repeatedly running content like ESoT, not people doing leadership. "Beneficial" because it really would result in inflation.
It really wouldn't. I make about half that as a safe estimate, but probably more than that. Increasing the cap wouldn't help them since you're limited by time for your tasks, there's only so much rough ad you can earn. It actually devalues it since basically the only way to get over that, is by playing.
Even the leadership farmers still play. That's why they're farming; to generate AD to support their main characters. That AD that is generated is still going to those accounts and will be spent; raising the cap makes it easier for them to do so. It doesn't really matter where the AD comes from; raising the cap still allows tons of AD into the market.
You dont need 18 Heroes to achieve more than 24k rad per day.
No, 6 or 9 may be enough, and you will need to run multiple 18 and 12 hour tasks when they come up. Or log in more often to collect the 3 and 4 hour rewards. I was thinking more realistically, as the most I do is three times, often two.
I get 24k-30k RAD every day with 20 leadership on 8 chars. My best has been 42kRAD.
<snip>
I use 1 Adventurer/1Man at arms in each slot.
But that could be done only with multiple Rare Tasks for 1600 AD, which take 12 hours and need special resources. Except "Put Enemy Keep Under Siege", which takes 18 hours and needs 3 Siege Engines. You do not have the Speed Bonus for that; it will take you nearly 9 hours for a 12 hour task and 13h 20' for an 18 hour job.
The only ones we are guaranteed to be able to do are:
[COLOR="#000000"][B]
Rank Task Time AD 1Adv/1MaA [COLOR="#0033ff"]2Advent[/COLOR] [COLOR="#800080"]1Adv/1He[/COLOR] 2Heroes
20 Destroy Enemy Camp 12 h 1600 8h 53’20” [COLOR="#0033ff"]8 hrs[/COLOR] [COLOR="#800080"]6h 51’26”[/COLOR] 6 hours
16 Fight the Spellplagued 6 h 400 4h 26’40” [COLOR="#0033ff"]4 hrs[/COLOR] 3h 25’43” 3 hours
10 Battle Undead 6 h 400 4h 26’40” [COLOR="#0033ff"]4 hrs[/COLOR] 3h 25’43” 3 hours
18 h 1600 13h 20’ 12 hrs 10h 17’9” 9 hours[/B][/COLOR]
You are getting a 35% Speed bonus there, which reduces 12 hours to 8hr 53' 20". You will not be able to finish even three times in 24 hours. So that is 1600 x3 x2 = 9600. I am getting 75% and 50%.
So that is 16800 RAD, assuming you login every 8 hours or so.
I suppose you COULD log in every 5 hours for the 6 hour tasks, so you could get 400 x3 x4 (I assume you sleep), so that is still only 19200.
Do you have an alarm clock running to let you know when the tasks are finished?
I never use the Gateway as I find it too slow and buggy.
I use 3 Heroes and a load of Adventurers on four characters, just Adventurers on the rest. So I get a 75% or 50% Speed Bonus, and I have NEVER maxed the AD on any character that has not been doing Daily Dungeons, PvP, Foundries and/or Salvaging as well. And I play quite as obsessively as the next guy.
You only get a 35% Speed Bonus, so are you logged in constantly for 18 hours a day?
Invoke 3x plus augment with skirmish or anything else that gives Rad IF the Rare tasks dont come up that would give you at least 24kRad in any 24hr period.
Ah. So you are not getting it all from Leadership after all? Only if rare tasks come up and you do Dailies as well. Plus the potential 2000 RAD from Invoking?
I only collect Mining Claims and Siege Engines when I have a backlog of 50k. I can’t be bothered going through Professions on 12 characters every 2 hr 40 minutes just for that. I have plenty of Mining Claims from Chests for Protect Diamond Shipment for 1600 AD for a single claim, rather than 1200 for THREE claims.
And you either need three siege engines, or one siege engine and three Marks of Gratitude, and I rarely get that many dropping. I do all the Blue and Purple chest tasks that come up, as long as they produce AD as well. And I often do Collect Taxes instead of Battle Undead for 2400 AD instead of 1200.
MAA are cheap to buy, especially when people do a run on lockboxes and the price drops below 20k. Same for Adventurers, when the price drops below 80k
Several weeks ago Man-at-Arms were 27k, and today they are more than 50k. It has been much cheaper to buy Adventurers than MaAs for quite a while. I remember when they were just a few thousand, and I bought them to upgrade to Adventurers. When I have nine spare, I train them up to Heroes and replace thee Adventurers with three Heroes. Although, today there were 3 Heroes for 260k each – a Bargain!
I agree about 75k per Adventurer. Today, I got one for 70k. I won’t pay 85k.
I am sorry, I find your story dubious. Your figures do not add up and you are way off with the AH prices.
No, 6 or 9 may be enough, and you will need to run multiple 18 and 12 hour tasks when they come up. Or log in more often to collect the 3 and 4 hour rewards. I was thinking more realistically, as the most I do is three times, often two.
But that could be done only with multiple Rare Tasks for 1600 AD, which take 12 hours and need special resources. Except "Put Enemy Keep Under Siege", which takes 18 hours and needs 3 Siege Engines. You do not have the Speed Bonus for that; it will take you nearly 9 hours for a 12 hour task and 13h 20' for an 18 hour job.
The only ones we are guaranteed to be able to do are:
[COLOR="#000000"][B]
Rank Task Time AD 1Adv/1MaA [COLOR="#0033ff"]2Advent[/COLOR] [COLOR="#800080"]1Adv/1He[/COLOR] 2Heroes
20 Destroy Enemy Camp 12 h 1600 8h 53’20” [COLOR="#0033ff"]8 hrs[/COLOR] [COLOR="#800080"]6h 51’26”[/COLOR] 6 hours
16 Fight the Spellplagued 6 h 400 4h 26’40” [COLOR="#0033ff"]4 hrs[/COLOR] 3h 25’43” 3 hours
10 Battle Undead 6 h 400 4h 26’40” [COLOR="#0033ff"]4 hrs[/COLOR] 3h 25’43” 3 hours
18 h 1600 13h 20’ 12 hrs 10h 17’9” 9 hours[/B][/COLOR]
You are getting a 35% Speed bonus there, which reduces 12 hours to 8hr 53' 20". You will not be able to finish even three times in 24 hours. So that is 1600 x3 x2 = 9600. I am getting 75% and 50%.
So that is 16800 RAD, assuming you login every 8 hours or so.
I suppose you COULD log in every 5 hours for the 6 hour tasks, so you could get 400 x3 x4 (I assume you sleep), so that is still only 19200.
Do you have an alarm clock running to let you know when the tasks are finished?
I never use the Gateway as I find it too slow and buggy.
I use 3 Heroes and a load of Adventurers on four characters, just Adventurers on the rest. So I get a 75% or 50% Speed Bonus, and I have NEVER maxed the AD on any character that has not been doing Daily Dungeons, PvP, Foundries and/or Salvaging as well. And I play quite as obsessively as the next guy.
You only get a 35% Speed Bonus, so are you logged in constantly for 18 hours a day?
Ah. So you are not getting it all from Leadership after all? Only if rare tasks come up and you do Dailies as well. Plus the potential 2000 RAD from Invoking?
I only collect Mining Claims and Siege Engines when I have a backlog of 50k. I can’t be bothered going through Professions on 12 characters every 2 hr 40 minutes just for that. I have plenty of Mining Claims from Chests for Protect Diamond Shipment for 1600 AD for a single claim, rather than 1200 for THREE claims.
And you either need three siege engines, or one siege engine and three Marks of Gratitude, and I rarely get that many dropping. I do all the Blue and Purple chest tasks that come up, as long as they produce AD as well. And I often do Collect Taxes instead of Battle Undead for 2400 AD instead of 1200.
You run Patrol the Mines FOUR TIMES with ALL characters, every day? That will take 2h 57’ 47” each time. Are you doing this yourself?
And after 12 hours, you burn them with Deliver Metals x3 for 3600 AD? To add to your 9600 AD + 3600 AD for a Grand Total of 16800?
Several weeks ago Man-at-Arms were 27k, and today they are more than 50k. It has been much cheaper to buy Adventurers than MaAs for quite a while. I remember when they were just a few thousand, and I bought them to upgrade to Adventurers. When I have nine spare, I train them up to Heroes and replace thee Adventurers with three Heroes. Although, today there were 3 Heroes for 260k each – a Bargain!
I agree about 75k per Adventurer. Today, I got one for 70k. I won’t pay 85k.
I am sorry, I find your story dubious. Your figures do not add up and you are way off with the AH prices.
yea whatever, I guess you dont play the same game as me.
IDK if you dont believe, most of the resources I have were obtained last year..prices were different.(esp when keys weren't bound) I play all my chars, I have 1 of every class(2 CW), and they have all completed every Mod 1-4. Since I dont have a problem making rad, keeping the 24k limit is fine with me. And yes I run patrol the mines 4x daily on all chars, its easy. Over time you build up a supply eventually where some days if your running more rare jobs, I dont get 12(shrug) they drop in blue chests anyways. Like I said making more than 24Krad daily on Leadership isn't that hard if you have at least 7 slots open and preferably 8-9 w/advent/man at arms. If you dont keep up on the jobs thru the gateway, your mileage may vary
Even the leadership farmers still play. That's why they're farming; to generate AD to support their main characters. That AD that is generated is still going to those accounts and will be spent; raising the cap makes it easier for them to do so. It doesn't really matter where the AD comes from; raising the cap still allows tons of AD into the market.
I have 8 semi main characters with 20 leadership, 10 with level 20, 1 with level 19 and another 9 with almost level 19 leadership. I've only overflowed on 2 on the characters I did player. If I wanted, I could overflow with more, but it still would only benefit those that actively play rather than those that fuel their main with a leadership army and surely it isnt really an issue if you do leadership and play. The cap doesn't bother me so much. The amount we can earn due to loot being more and more predominately bop does. Hence why I've had to resort to an extreme way to earn just so I don't fall behind.
Hence why I've had to resort to an extreme way to earn just so I don't fall behind.
What is this "extreme way" to which you have resorted?
The only way I could cap out AD purely from actual Leadership tasks, as tornacl says he regularly does, would be to have a Bot program do it for me.
There are several reasons I would never even attempt that:
it's probably against the ToS and EULA;
I do not want my account banned and deleted as if I were an Astral Diamond Fountaineer or a BOT Account;
there is no way I would EVER use any 3rd party program that would be running while I am on-line and logging into my account, as I would fully expect my account details and password to be sent to hackers.
But I am open to any legit method to generate more AD. The problem with Rough AD is that there are only certain sources and they still have to be refined anyway. I could spend more time doing PvP Dailies with my semi-mains, but that would not be fair to the others in my team as my semi-mains and Leaderhsip Mules just do not have the gear. But I could get another 8,000 RAD from that, as long as we win one match.
And as 6 of my 12 level 60s are DCs and TRs, I have to take a sabbatical on the Preview Server as they have no Feats now! And the DCs have no Powers, either. But they ALL still have the same Paragon paths and attribute scores! :rolleyes:
I am certainly not blowing 900k on Zen for six Re-Training Tokens. I would prefer to buy more Bank Slots.
Today was a good day; approx 900,000 AD from selling my Footmen. I have been playing since February and it took me a LONG, LONG time to train those and even longer to actually get to Rank 20 Leadership. My CW is still Rank 19.
But now that I have 11 characters at Rank 20, it really is only the last month or so where the RAD has been flowing in at about 150k per day. "Destroy Enemy Camp" x3, three times a day on 11 characters makes a HUGE difference. And that is 1 Greater Mark and 2 Marks of Potency from the Wondrous Bazaar AD Sink.
So I really do not think Leadership AD distorts the economy at all. And we all know that Bot-Farmed Gear makes AH prices LOWER, not higher.
It is greed to have your roll worth higher than everyone elses.
No it's not, it's the economics of the Auction House, supply and demand, RNG and the intent and design of the code. But please stop trying to derail this thread into your usual off-topic agenda.
No one cares what you do with your Guild or if you all agree to GREED on everything because even your SW agrees that it is not fair that over 1000 runs he can NEED on an SW drop 200 times and sell it on the AH for 5 times more than your DC can sell his 200 drops. The only issue has only ever been whether it is fair to exploit newer players by forcing them to agree to GREED or Take a Hike when an item for their class drops and its the first time they've done the dungeon. Stealing other people's drops because they sell for more than drops for your class is the definition of selfishness, immaturity, greed and exploiting people.
What is this "extreme way" to which you have resorted?
28 leadership toons. It's not really something that I'd imagine what you're supposed to do but still not against the rules. It's on the extreme side. Of course there are probably a few with more than me, but I would say I'm in the minority going that far. So I didn't mean any super secret way. Although I did luck out on something like the gond event to make 25m, which is invested in a failed (currently) investment.
I realise how long it takes to make footmen myself, that's why I only have 3 on my newer set of 10 leadership toons since it wasn't worth the time. Plus I wanted to invest AD in lesser res stones while I could. What is good about my army though is i got 28 polishers easily to fuel my main jewelcrafting, though it's mostly good upto level 14 where I'd be low on assets. I tihnk having so many leadership toons is ridiculous, but really it's affect is minimal, the effort and time to max it is a deterrent and overall isn't that significant amount in the economy despite a single person eventually being able to do well because of it.
One thing that is annoying is that the tasks scroll slightly when crafting ingame. Hopefully that's a bug that they will fix rather than a 'feature' such as the already existing delay. They're really making being in game more and more of a pain...
No it's not, it's the economics of the Auction House, supply and demand, RNG and the intent and design of the code. But please stop trying to derail this thread into your usual off-topic agenda.
No one cares what you do with your Guild or if you all agree to GREED on everything because even your SW agrees that it is not fair that over 1000 runs he can NEED on an SW drop 200 times and sell it on the AH for 5 times more than your DC can sell his 200 drops. The only issue has only ever been whether it is fair to exploit newer players by forcing them to agree to GREED or Take a Hike when an item for their class drops and its the first time they've done the dungeon. Stealing other people's drops because they sell for more than drops for your class is the definition of selfishness, immaturity, greed and exploiting people.
Please do not reply.
:mad:
Well it kind of is, I don't owe anyone handouts, nor do I expect them. I fully expected in my guild that needing would be fine if you didn't own it, then found out that splitting was just superior and fair. Obviously it's down to the group. Originally There were pretty much no loot rules. There was no intent, it was always up to the group to vote accordingly but it was changed, however so was the way loot was handled so what was once a, go ahead, need on it, I won't, became something that screwed the rest of the party out of their earnings since the chest became bop. It used to be a small loss instead of pretty much the only thing to run for. There's nothing selfish about giving everyone an even chance. As said before, if you have 2 people of the same class, they have 50% chance to win the loot compared to 100% of others in a need run and it allows people to exploit the new fotm class. Everyone put in the same amount of work (unless they're slacking) so everyone is entitled to the same value. If you disagree, find a group that thinks otherwise. Those that kick without rules being stated is unfair, but the only thing that will change that is a proper greed all mode that people want.
I'm sorry, but when it's brought up, I can't ignore it when some people unfairly judge everyone of a particular group.or call it exploiting. If you want we can stop that discussion here before we get too involved .
Comments
I do play them regularly. That's why I have no Black Ice gear or Artifact gear. As I said, I have DO, AC, WK and TR Mains with Profound Gear sets and Rank 7 and 8 Enchants and Runes and a GWF, GF and HR semi-mains. The GF is the only one of the three that does not have all Rank 7 Enchants and runes. I also have a Dwarf AC with Grim Gear (my second character - my first is the Tiefling AC), but I retired him as a leadership mule as the Dwarf DO (my 12th character with Profound Righteous/Virtuous) is just better.
I bought the character slots so I could try all the classes and different races. But then I found out how slow the power progression and refining is, so once I had played them to about level 30, most of them became Leadership mules in favour of advancing my Main characters.
And there's nothing "obsessive" about it. Running 1000 CN runs so you can steal other people's drops to sell on the AH is what I'd call "obsessive".
As I also said in my first post, there is no way you can get more than 24k AD per day just from Leadership. You would need 18 Heroes, 9 slots open, lots of Siege Engines, Mining Claims and Marks of Gratitude and log in every 6 hours to do that.
Most of the people with excessive rough AD are "obsessive" farmers doing 1000 Epic runs and salvaging gear on their single "Main" because they were too tight to pay for additional character slots.
I saw one post which cited high prices on items as the cause for needing AD.
This is actually backwards.
Supply and Demand is the backbone to everything in terms of economics including the value of currency. When supply goes up value goes down, when supply goes down value goes up. When demand goes up value goes up, when demand goes down value goes down. This is an economic law.
As such if you increase the refinement cap you will increase the supply of currency. That will make the currency, not the items, less valuable. As such the amount of currency needed to buy said items will increase.
This is not debatable. If you ask any person who has not fallen asleep on day one in Economics 101 they can tell you this is 100% accurate 100% of the time when discussing market value.
As such when you see an item selling for the AD equivalence of $10 in Zen that item is worth $10. If you increase the amount of AD coming into the game you will not make the item fall in value but rather increase the amount of AD required to be worth $10.
This is the complete opposite of what everybody in this thread wants. If you think that increasing the amount of AD people can refine would be friendlier to new players you are wrong. It would make it less friendly as they would need to farm even more AD than they currently do.
The only way to make the game more new player friendly is to make the time spent within the game worth more. This is done by reducing the amount of AD in the game. If you reduce the amount of AD in the game it will increase in value. This means those items worth $10 will require less AD to be purchased. This is what every person in this thread has wanted.
That is the only way short of putting artificial limits to achieve reduced AD costs for items.
There are two ways to reduce the amount of AD in the game. The first way is to reduce the Refinement Cap. Nobody wants to do this. The second way is to increase the amount of AD sinks being used.
The latter is something the mods have been vocal about since the game launched.
We want the prices of all the AD sinks drastically reduced. They listened and brought down some (hence why the Zen Exchange has not gone back to the 13M AD backlog). However more reductions are needed. The marketing team seems to rely on whales for *all* purchases but this is just...I am opposed to this mentality in every walk of life.
Look at Mohammad Ali. Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee...he didn't win by throwing everything in one punch. The world DOES NOT work that way.
What makes more money? One person out of a hundred spending 50 dollars on an item or 80 people out of a hundred spending 5 dollars. Economies do NOT operate on the 1%ers. Economies operate on the masses. If all of the AD sinks were less expensive more people would use them rather than ignore them.
And once people use AD sinks and the AD generated leaves the economy on a more widespread level we'll see prices for all items decrease as we would need to farm less AD to generate the same amount of Zen.
WTB Class Reroll please
I really did miss the word "unfair" in your post.
^This.
I'm always amazed at how so many are such mind-readers that they always *know* how all the other players like to play or what they will always do and want. Such opinion is ridiculous elitism at best.
What Zeb and others have said: more sinks are needed, not a RAD refining cap increase. As for all of you sporting this idea on the basis of knowing what other players do and want: you aren't all that insightful. Hardly so.
As for having professions and those "not really playing the game": Seriously? That's your intellectual best? Check yourself for what you're saying; doing Professions well takes a little brain-power to manage to most efficiency, where I might quip: Mouse button-mashing is a brainless activity and isn't really playing the game. See what I did there?
This kind of debate is academic at best. The short answer: it's not going to change and thankfully so.
all that is well and good, and also very true. Except for one thing. A good majority of the playerbase from the discussions I've had both in and out of the forums, do not believe that the people at Cryptic or Perfect World care. Pretty much the entire circle I run with feel that Perfect World and Cryptic's solution to this is for the playerbase to "suck it up buttercup" and whip out the old Credit card.
Now I understand that the game needs to make money, and that's why the people on that side of the equation do this. But I look at what's happening and I am sure you wont have to go far to find others who agree, that They could give a flying monkey's poo less whether this is harder on the playerbase or not.
The model of the game seems more to draw people in and make money till they get frustrated and leave then it is to insure a long term playerbase that spends less amount of money but over a longer period of time will come out ahead.
That is the opinion on this side of the monitor. Whether that's true or not I cant say. I've never known Cryptic to use a project up and discard it the way some companies (who I wont bother to name but we all know who they are) do. But still. That's the opinion that's out there at least with some of the playerbase.
I am part of a very large guild that crosses at least a dozen MMO's and I've watched our numbers in Neverwinter go from the high 30s to single digits within the last 2 months alone. While in most of the other games the numbers have stayed the same or grown.
Turnover is a part of every mmo. Most people play a game for awhile, get bored with it or jump to the next shiny new MMO that is released, but with all the problems this game has had. (Caturday being only the first) People are just wondering what blunder will be next. Add that to this problem with the over-inflation of rare marks of power and the huge RP sink and you have a losing combination. Oh, and throw in with all the new bind to account restrictions on the game new players can never, ever, catch up to those that still have millions to billions of AD stored around the game.
Good points.
On a completely different side note, I don't think the newer players are going to be happy with the coming BoP status on refining items . . . (hijack?)
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
^ This is very true!!
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
once you hit level 60 and have a few boons you have outlived your usefulness. You either have already invested money in the game for some items, making it unlikely you spend more, or you are an AD grinder that will never invest. You are no longer the primary business target of the game.
You may not like it, but you might want to accept it.
All the ranting will not change a good working business model. And the "good" is not necessarily from your point of view.
-It allows more to be refined a day.
-I have thought about this, too.. but something like 50K just screams "prices will go up even more, because players can earn than much more, that much faster."
-Make it something like achieving a 1K bonus per Domination and cap it at 10. Successfully completing all 10 should be another 5K, or a bonus of 5K for winning at least half of the matches.
ńèЪùŁâ 70 acDC
Nubula, Scrubula, Nutella, Ebola
Why should it be tied to PvP? Just curious.
Good for you. It's not bashing to suggest that buying new character slots, creating new characters, and using them solely to boost AD gain by farming leadership isn't playing the game the way it was designed to be played. Note that we don't have an obligation to play the game as designed either, only not to abuse it, but I don't see why we should reward people who aren't even attempting to actually play and are merely trying to make themselves insanely wealthy when that mechanic could have devastating consequences for all the other players. This isn't about people like you, who is playing multiple characters for a reason and then discovers it's simply not worth it. It's about the tactic that has been posted, recited, and recommended on these forums for a long time as a way to generate lots of AD to support a playstyle that caters only to the extreme elitists and people who have all day to play. I see no reason to favor those players over the casual players who make up the base of people Cryptic is targeting and is more likely to spend money to get ahead. Cryptic should definitely realize the flaws in their game if it turns off people with multiple characters from regularly playing those characters and turning them into leadership mules because as you pointed out, "it's not worth it."
I would agree with that but the point has also been made that there aren't enough ways to earn AD to satisfy those players, hence the reason for the obsessive behavior, but I don't see how farming leadership on 20 characters is any less obsessive than running dungeons over and over again for the salvage. It takes less time to farm leadership, for certain, but those people have hours and hours to play and at least they're playing! The developers certainly shouldn't fix the problem by inflating currency any more than governments should.
Yes, but with 20 characters, you can make a lot of AD with little to no effort. Increasing that amount would be insane.
another suggestion, is that invoking gives you an additional 1k refining limit (maybe upto 3k).
But i personally find this topic useless as any changes will occur to all users and will help no one but cause inflation as everyone mentioned (don't forget that zen price is capped, so raising the cap would be necessary to allow zen sellers to balance the demand)
You're right - it isn't just tied to PvP, it was just an idea. :P
ńèЪùŁâ 70 acDC
Nubula, Scrubula, Nutella, Ebola
This is incorrect in my opinion^ You dont need 18 Heroes to achieve more than 24k rad per day.
I get 24k-30k RAD every day with 20 leadership on 8 chars. My best has been 42kRAD. 3 chars have 9 slots, the rest have 8. I use 1 Adventurer/1Man at arms in each slot. And I use the Gateway. Invoke 3x plus augment with skirmish or anything else that gives Rad IF the Rare tasks dont come up that would give you at least 24kRad in any 24hr period.
All my chars make at least 12 mining claims each day to take care of the protecting diamond task (3) + (9) more for Deliver metals. Once that's achieved, fill in the blanks with anything else that is available.
As far as Marks of Grat and Siege engines go, they drop fairly often in the very rare chests for me, so on those days I get those rare tasks to pop, I can get more than 24K that given day. Regardless, for 8 chars, I'm refining 192kAD per day=1,344,000 AD weekly
MAA are cheap to buy, especially when people do a run on lockboxes and the price drops below 20k. Same for Adventurers, when the price drops below 80k, it starts to be attractive for considering a buy, When I see the price go below 75K I get one, since thats cheaper in cost (4MAA@20k+) plus 18hours to upgrade to Adventurer.
Given this might be a huge cost upfront if just starting out for new players, but if you plan on playing this game for the long haul, it's worth it. For me it has since I started at Beta last year.
Cheers
Oh, I SO agree with this. Maybe they never revised the sink costs much precisely because there WERE so many people making millions from farming dungeons in the first six months? They made dungeon items BoP instead.
In fact, a few months ago I posted a list of desirable new AD Sinks based on what is already available and their suggested prices based on what is currently available and their costs in Tarmalune Trade Bars, Zen and AD.
By the way, new players - NEVER spend Trade Bars on Preservation Wards. They are ludicrously over-priced compared with Coalescence Wards. They are only 100 Zen (50k AD) for 10 from the Zen Market, which has been cheaper than the AH for months. The Trade Bar price is just stupid. It should be divided by 10. The Trade Bar price of Coalescence Wards is much more in keeping with the Zen Price.
And NEVER buy from the AH unless it is CHEAPER than the Wondrous Bazaar and cheaper than converting or buying Zen.
As for AD Sinks, the cost of a White Pearl is 6 AD per RP! Why would ANYone EVER pay that when you can get 99 on the AH for less than 1200 AD? And free drops from Dragonhoards? I know I bought at least a dozen stacks; I also bought several dozen stacks of Peridots; and with 12 level 60s, 4 Mains and 3 semi-Mains, I really need them. I usually go by the AD/RP ratio - the Lower the Number, the Clincher the Sale. The higher the RP value of the Stone, the higher the AD/RP ratio and it gets less efficient; it saves time on refining, so it is more time-efficient, but I always go by Value For Money (or Value For AD in this case).
And Flawless Sapphires? 30k AD for 5,000 RP (6 AD per RP again) when you could buy a stack of 99 for 435k, or about 4,394 AD EACH?
That's 0.879 AD per RP! I still bought the 99 Peridots for 12k, though, as that is only 0.24 AD per RP. And I rarely refine anything above Rank 7.
All colours of Power/Union/Stability Stones and all colours of Marks of Power/Union/Stability should ALSO be added to AD sinks.
And now, Resonance Stones as well.
I won't even go into the daft price of upgrading a Tier 1 mount to Tier 3 on a SINGLE character. It was cheaper for me to buy a Leopard of Chult in the recent sale. So now I have FOUR Epic, Tier 3, Account-Wide Mounts. Dawn Unicorn for the Elf Ranger and Priestesses of Good Deities, Yeth Hound for the Assassins and SWs, White Tiger for the Dwarves and Leopard of Chult for the Halfling Ranger, GWF (she's an Amazon in Courtesan's gear dyed Green and Gold) and GF.
It does nothing for their Power, efficiency or play-style, but they do look nicer from a role-playing perspective. :rolleyes:
Shame about the Tier 2 Medium Pharaoh Steed. What a waste of 750 Trade Bars THAT was...
Almost four Coalesence Wards..
Nowhere did I suggest changing anything about Leadership.
I never claimed that people who farm leadership are a problem in the game. I just pointed out that it's a lame way to generate AD and I acknowledged that people do it because there aren't better ways to generate AD. Also, without the refinement cap, all those folks generated all that AD would CERTAINLY be a problem by flooding the market with their army of Leadership characters making tons of AD.
It really wouldn't. I make about half that as a safe estimate, but probably more than that. Increasing the cap wouldn't help them since you're limited by time for your tasks, there's only so much rough ad you can earn. It actually devalues it since basically the only way to get over that, is by playing.
Raising the cap would not cause me to generate more AD from leadership unless I started using faster dudes and changing them more often (yecchhhh). It would require doing more dailies or salvaging more stuff, and I can only do that on a limited number of characters.
Increasing the cap would be largely "beneficial" to people with an excess of RAD from bound epic loot from repeatedly running content like ESoT, not people doing leadership. "Beneficial" because it really would result in inflation.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Even the leadership farmers still play. That's why they're farming; to generate AD to support their main characters. That AD that is generated is still going to those accounts and will be spent; raising the cap makes it easier for them to do so. It doesn't really matter where the AD comes from; raising the cap still allows tons of AD into the market.
No, 6 or 9 may be enough, and you will need to run multiple 18 and 12 hour tasks when they come up. Or log in more often to collect the 3 and 4 hour rewards. I was thinking more realistically, as the most I do is three times, often two.
But that could be done only with multiple Rare Tasks for 1600 AD, which take 12 hours and need special resources. Except "Put Enemy Keep Under Siege", which takes 18 hours and needs 3 Siege Engines. You do not have the Speed Bonus for that; it will take you nearly 9 hours for a 12 hour task and 13h 20' for an 18 hour job.
The only ones we are guaranteed to be able to do are:
[COLOR="#000000"][B] Rank Task Time AD 1Adv/1MaA [COLOR="#0033ff"]2Advent[/COLOR] [COLOR="#800080"]1Adv/1He[/COLOR] 2Heroes 20 Destroy Enemy Camp 12 h 1600 8h 53’20” [COLOR="#0033ff"]8 hrs[/COLOR] [COLOR="#800080"]6h 51’26”[/COLOR] 6 hours 16 Fight the Spellplagued 6 h 400 4h 26’40” [COLOR="#0033ff"]4 hrs[/COLOR] 3h 25’43” 3 hours 10 Battle Undead 6 h 400 4h 26’40” [COLOR="#0033ff"]4 hrs[/COLOR] 3h 25’43” 3 hours 18 h 1600 13h 20’ 12 hrs 10h 17’9” 9 hours[/B][/COLOR]You are getting a 35% Speed bonus there, which reduces 12 hours to 8hr 53' 20". You will not be able to finish even three times in 24 hours. So that is 1600 x3 x2 = 9600. I am getting 75% and 50%.
So, assuming no Rare Tasks, you’ll get
1600 x3 x2 = 9600
400 x3 x3 = 3600
400 x3 x3 = 3600
So that is 16800 RAD, assuming you login every 8 hours or so.
I suppose you COULD log in every 5 hours for the 6 hour tasks, so you could get 400 x3 x4 (I assume you sleep), so that is still only 19200.
Do you have an alarm clock running to let you know when the tasks are finished?
I never use the Gateway as I find it too slow and buggy.
I use 3 Heroes and a load of Adventurers on four characters, just Adventurers on the rest. So I get a 75% or 50% Speed Bonus, and I have NEVER maxed the AD on any character that has not been doing Daily Dungeons, PvP, Foundries and/or Salvaging as well. And I play quite as obsessively as the next guy.
You only get a 35% Speed Bonus, so are you logged in constantly for 18 hours a day?
Ah. So you are not getting it all from Leadership after all? Only if rare tasks come up and you do Dailies as well. Plus the potential 2000 RAD from Invoking?
I only collect Mining Claims and Siege Engines when I have a backlog of 50k. I can’t be bothered going through Professions on 12 characters every 2 hr 40 minutes just for that. I have plenty of Mining Claims from Chests for Protect Diamond Shipment for 1600 AD for a single claim, rather than 1200 for THREE claims.
And you either need three siege engines, or one siege engine and three Marks of Gratitude, and I rarely get that many dropping. I do all the Blue and Purple chest tasks that come up, as long as they produce AD as well. And I often do Collect Taxes instead of Battle Undead for 2400 AD instead of 1200.
You run Patrol the Mines FOUR TIMES with ALL characters, every day? That will take 2h 57’ 47” each time. Are you doing this yourself?
And after 12 hours, you burn them with Deliver Metals x3 for 3600 AD? To add to your 9600 AD + 3600 AD for a Grand Total of 16800?
Several weeks ago Man-at-Arms were 27k, and today they are more than 50k. It has been much cheaper to buy Adventurers than MaAs for quite a while. I remember when they were just a few thousand, and I bought them to upgrade to Adventurers. When I have nine spare, I train them up to Heroes and replace thee Adventurers with three Heroes. Although, today there were 3 Heroes for 260k each – a Bargain!
I agree about 75k per Adventurer. Today, I got one for 70k. I won’t pay 85k.
I am sorry, I find your story dubious. Your figures do not add up and you are way off with the AH prices.
yea whatever, I guess you dont play the same game as me.
IDK if you dont believe, most of the resources I have were obtained last year..prices were different.(esp when keys weren't bound) I play all my chars, I have 1 of every class(2 CW), and they have all completed every Mod 1-4. Since I dont have a problem making rad, keeping the 24k limit is fine with me. And yes I run patrol the mines 4x daily on all chars, its easy. Over time you build up a supply eventually where some days if your running more rare jobs, I dont get 12(shrug) they drop in blue chests anyways. Like I said making more than 24Krad daily on Leadership isn't that hard if you have at least 7 slots open and preferably 8-9 w/advent/man at arms. If you dont keep up on the jobs thru the gateway, your mileage may vary
I have 8 semi main characters with 20 leadership, 10 with level 20, 1 with level 19 and another 9 with almost level 19 leadership. I've only overflowed on 2 on the characters I did player. If I wanted, I could overflow with more, but it still would only benefit those that actively play rather than those that fuel their main with a leadership army and surely it isnt really an issue if you do leadership and play. The cap doesn't bother me so much. The amount we can earn due to loot being more and more predominately bop does. Hence why I've had to resort to an extreme way to earn just so I don't fall behind.
What is this "extreme way" to which you have resorted?
The only way I could cap out AD purely from actual Leadership tasks, as tornacl says he regularly does, would be to have a Bot program do it for me.
There are several reasons I would never even attempt that:
But I am open to any legit method to generate more AD. The problem with Rough AD is that there are only certain sources and they still have to be refined anyway. I could spend more time doing PvP Dailies with my semi-mains, but that would not be fair to the others in my team as my semi-mains and Leaderhsip Mules just do not have the gear. But I could get another 8,000 RAD from that, as long as we win one match.
And as 6 of my 12 level 60s are DCs and TRs, I have to take a sabbatical on the Preview Server as they have no Feats now! And the DCs have no Powers, either. But they ALL still have the same Paragon paths and attribute scores! :rolleyes:
I am certainly not blowing 900k on Zen for six Re-Training Tokens. I would prefer to buy more Bank Slots.
Today was a good day; approx 900,000 AD from selling my Footmen. I have been playing since February and it took me a LONG, LONG time to train those and even longer to actually get to Rank 20 Leadership. My CW is still Rank 19.
But now that I have 11 characters at Rank 20, it really is only the last month or so where the RAD has been flowing in at about 150k per day. "Destroy Enemy Camp" x3, three times a day on 11 characters makes a HUGE difference. And that is 1 Greater Mark and 2 Marks of Potency from the Wondrous Bazaar AD Sink.
So I really do not think Leadership AD distorts the economy at all. And we all know that Bot-Farmed Gear makes AH prices LOWER, not higher.
No it's not, it's the economics of the Auction House, supply and demand, RNG and the intent and design of the code. But please stop trying to derail this thread into your usual off-topic agenda.
No one cares what you do with your Guild or if you all agree to GREED on everything because even your SW agrees that it is not fair that over 1000 runs he can NEED on an SW drop 200 times and sell it on the AH for 5 times more than your DC can sell his 200 drops. The only issue has only ever been whether it is fair to exploit newer players by forcing them to agree to GREED or Take a Hike when an item for their class drops and its the first time they've done the dungeon. Stealing other people's drops because they sell for more than drops for your class is the definition of selfishness, immaturity, greed and exploiting people.
Please do not reply.
:mad:
28 leadership toons. It's not really something that I'd imagine what you're supposed to do but still not against the rules. It's on the extreme side. Of course there are probably a few with more than me, but I would say I'm in the minority going that far. So I didn't mean any super secret way. Although I did luck out on something like the gond event to make 25m, which is invested in a failed (currently) investment.
I realise how long it takes to make footmen myself, that's why I only have 3 on my newer set of 10 leadership toons since it wasn't worth the time. Plus I wanted to invest AD in lesser res stones while I could. What is good about my army though is i got 28 polishers easily to fuel my main jewelcrafting, though it's mostly good upto level 14 where I'd be low on assets. I tihnk having so many leadership toons is ridiculous, but really it's affect is minimal, the effort and time to max it is a deterrent and overall isn't that significant amount in the economy despite a single person eventually being able to do well because of it.
One thing that is annoying is that the tasks scroll slightly when crafting ingame. Hopefully that's a bug that they will fix rather than a 'feature' such as the already existing delay. They're really making being in game more and more of a pain...
Well it kind of is, I don't owe anyone handouts, nor do I expect them. I fully expected in my guild that needing would be fine if you didn't own it, then found out that splitting was just superior and fair. Obviously it's down to the group. Originally There were pretty much no loot rules. There was no intent, it was always up to the group to vote accordingly but it was changed, however so was the way loot was handled so what was once a, go ahead, need on it, I won't, became something that screwed the rest of the party out of their earnings since the chest became bop. It used to be a small loss instead of pretty much the only thing to run for. There's nothing selfish about giving everyone an even chance. As said before, if you have 2 people of the same class, they have 50% chance to win the loot compared to 100% of others in a need run and it allows people to exploit the new fotm class. Everyone put in the same amount of work (unless they're slacking) so everyone is entitled to the same value. If you disagree, find a group that thinks otherwise. Those that kick without rules being stated is unfair, but the only thing that will change that is a proper greed all mode that people want.
I'm sorry, but when it's brought up, I can't ignore it when some people unfairly judge everyone of a particular group.or call it exploiting. If you want we can stop that discussion here before we get too involved