Super sweet, all other classes with have more control again and storm spell gone to 15% if you slot eots and stack crit in pvp which is insane and 3 chances to proc assailant. I see no possible downside to this. So glad you thought it through so thoroughly and considered the effect it would have. Best outcome is its like cn door fix and you only think it happened.
They are trying to differentiate between control and dps for CW, much like everyone was all for trying to differentiate between tank and dps for GWF, isn't karma lovely?
any chance to focus instigator in party debuff / aoe damage so I can back to play in peace? (i really lose the pleasure since m3)
It is obvious that the capstone will cause imbalance in pvp (and will be "meh" in endgame pve). and as much as the destroyer go out of focus, the stack system is boring.
ps:the Combat Advantage Duration is increased to 1.5/3/4.5/6/7.5 seconds (up from 1/1.5/2/2.5/3 seconds).
sorry, what is the point? the mark change dont transcended this?
note:This "rework" dont need overbuff the instigator to be a king in "x" ou "Y". something useful and functional is ok.
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nwnghostMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited October 2014
Don't get me wrong, I think its a good idea to make Orb on its own less powerful, but I think you just moved the problem rather than actually address it.
What I think would be better is to buff Companion Actives granting Control bonus or Increase the amount of Control Bonus CW players received from WISdom attribute, while reducing Orb of Imposition Control Bonus accordingly, so that the overall Control Bonus amount remains the same.
What this does is allow players who invest in WISdom (rather than CHArisma) and other sources of Control Bonus can still have semi-decent control without needing to spec Oppressor for it. Doing so already gives up immense amounts of potential damage.
By only moving Orb of Imposition bonus to Oppressor, Oppressors can safely remain CHArisma focussed and take all damage boosting Companion Actives/Artifacts and overall deal very good damage while having the most Control.
The side effect is to make WISdom actually worth taking at all for Control Wizards, rather than always go straight for INTelligence + CHArisma. And it wouldn't make it a must-have, just an equally good alternative.
Updated OP with changes to Wizard and Great Weapon Fighter that are as follows. These changes will *NOT* be in the initial preview push, but should be in a subsequent build.
Control Wizard
Storm Spell: Chance to activate increased to 30%, but can only trigger on critical hits now.
Thaumaturge: Assailing Force: The damage from this power is now activated by Encounter powers rather than all damage.
Orb of Imposition: This class feature has been reverted to a previous state where it grants 5% increased control duration per rank.
Oppressor: Glacial Movement: This feat now increases the effectiveness of each rank of Orb of Imposition by 4/8/12/16/20%.
Great Weapon Fighter
Sentinel: Intimidation: This feat now deals 7/14/21/28/35% of your Power in damage (down from 10/20/30/40/50%).
So the reduction to Storm Spell will result in a substantial drop in CW Spell Storm DPS, which will render it noticably inferior to Master of Flame.
Is this intentional? Currently based on Abaddon523's testing MoF & Spell Storm are roughly balanced.
So the reduction to Storm Spell will result in a substantial drop in CW Spell Storm DPS, which will render it noticably inferior to Master of Flame.
Is this intentional? Currently based on Abaddon523's testing MoF & Spell Storm are roughly balanced.
They're not. When i respec'd from master of fire to stormspell I had a 35% damage increase, mostly coming from the storm class feature. Now if they could make fanning the flame as it was before they nerfed it it would be great.
I know these changes are not up yet. But i wanted to say to make trapper more desirable is not just by buffing damage %, there are fundamental issues with it, like the way Feat:Ancient Thorns, and Feat:Thorned Roots, work together. without ancient thorns the dot is spread over a shorter duration so you do more damage, but when you want longer roots you gimp your damage from thorned roots because of overlapping snares, (Constricting arrow and Hindering Strike) the same goes with the capstone, where you have to keep a mental note of when this buff runs out because of the internal cooldown.
What i suggest is to:
1. Make it so that the thorned roots dot can stack upon each other,
2. Remove the Biting Snare cooldown but only making it one stack (so you can keep it refreshed by switching).
3. Increase the aoe radius of constricting arrow roots (this would help HR in PvE in general. (Currently it is a pitiful 5 yards)
4. Rework Aspect of the Serpent so that it activates it's damage/crit buff when you switch stance and lasts for 5 seconds whilst resetting the stacks back to 0 and starts counting up until you switch stances again.
These would make the stance switching work more smoothly and feel less rough and clunky, from there you can adjust the % of feats until the damage is right.
I second this post. Thorned roots from separate encounter powers not stacking makes no sense; if damage from a non-rooting attack is on top of thorned-root damage, why would a separate encounter power (say hindering after constricting) be treated differently?
I would add one additional suggestion for the Ancient Roots/Thorned Roots problem: instead of dealing 500% damage spread out over the duration, why not switch to x% (say 100-125 at rank 5) per second of the control effect; this way it would be consistent and Trappers won't have to sacrifice DPS to get the extended control. Non-Ancient Roots wouldn't deal as much damage, but why should they? For control-immune targets it would work the same (1/2 total damage dealt immediately)
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kieranmtornMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 382Arc User
They're not. When i respec'd from master of fire to stormspell I had a 35% damage increase, mostly coming from the storm class feature. Now if they could make fanning the flame as it was before they nerfed it it would be great.
I second this post. Thorned roots from separate encounter powers not stacking makes no sense; if damage from a non-rooting attack is on top of thorned-root damage, why would a separate encounter power (say hindering after constricting) be treated differently?
I would add one additional suggestion for the Ancient Roots/Thorned Roots problem: instead of dealing 500% damage spread out over the duration, why not switch to x% (say 100-125 at rank 5) per second of the control effect; this way it would be consistent and Trappers won't have to sacrifice DPS to get the extended control. Non-Ancient Roots wouldn't deal as much damage, but why should they? For control-immune targets it would work the same (1/2 total damage dealt immediately)
good suggestion!
but damage amount should be ~250% per second in order to save current dps
This does not look good for CWs at first glance, unless there are major nerfs coming to several other classes. CWs are already a mid-performing class in PvP; currently, most other classes will beat them up in a fair fight -- HRs particularly, but also GFs, GWFs and TRs. The upside here is that excessive control is boring to play against, so hopefully this will be matched by a reduction in the duration of other classes' cc effects. Halving the duration of GF and GWF stuns and increasing the cooldown period for HR Disruptive Shot would be a good way to go.
For a while, CWs were performing strongly in PvP, but this was due to a combination of several factors. You're simultaneously nerfing all of those, putting CWs in a position where they will be even weaker than they were in module 3.
CWs are and remain the squishiest class. The boost to Shield was nice, but the across-the-board increase in damage that all classes have received means that Shield has become a necessary crutch against some classes that put out excessive damage, rather than an option. This means the Shield "boost" actually masks how bad the situation has become and is a form of nerf in the sense that CWs get one less encounter power to slot than they used to.
In module 4, you nerfed the damage of individual CW single-target encounter spells, but moved this damage to feats and passive procs. Most players that have spoken on the matter have agreed that this made the CW less fun and less fun to play against.
Increasing CW control was necessary to begin with because CWs had too little control in PvP. With the sum of the changes you introduced in module 4, they got access to too much control when also taking into consideration other things the module introduced, particularly the Red Glyphs, which would allow CWs to do a lot of damage with simple Ray of Frost spam, while maintaining iron control. Through module 4, you've nerfed the chill boost to CW control, made sure CWs no longer get *any* chance at landing cc against a GF that has a clue, and now you're also reverting Orb of Imposition.
As the end result, it looks like CWs will be left with none of the module 4 boosts intact, while you're retaining the nerfs, and allowing other classes to maintain their boosted damage levels, leaving CWs depending on Shield and with a net nerf -- worse off than module 3.
I would suggest the following amendments:
Chill stacks stick to control-immune targets for a period of time, but do not freeze them until they cease being control immune. This would allow CWs to freeze GFs and GWFs more reliably, restoring some control to them, while giving the GF/GWF better control of *when* they get frozen so they can maneuver themselves to counter or mitigate. It would also mean certain feats and passive features that rely on chill stacks would have a meaningful effect.
CWs receive double the control bonus for a high Wisdom score, or +1% control bonus per point of Intelligence above 10. This would allow all CWs a little more control at base levels, without being excessive. It would also serve to differentiate CW ability score arrays a bit more, and serve as a match to the change GFs received to hit points in module 4. In return, the Oppressor boost to Orb of Imposition could be slightly lowered to 3/6/9/12/15%. That would mean that ability would still be very good for Oppressors, but a little more balanced against alternative options. It would also retain what you are trying to do here by differentiating the the three CW feat paths a little more.
Giving CWs higher control resist for Wisdom could also be a potential way to slightly improve their survivability without going too far over the top.
Shard of the Endless Avalanche should inflict much greater damage while slotted in Spell Mastery. Currently, no one ever uses this spell in PvP anymore, because it yields low damage, retains a high cooldown and remains an unreliable, high-skill move. The benefits simply far outweigh the risks.
As for the Intimidation change, at the 35% level, it would still have the potential to inflict too much damage. The issue isn't just the level of damage it inflicts, but the fact that it is area damage, it belongs to the tankiest GWF build, and several GWFs cooperating to use it in tandem will be far deadlier (while each remains a fairly hard-to-kill character). Even at 35%, it will spawn the potential for troll compositions of three or more GWFs running together, using that build in PvP. At the same time, it's not a bad thing to have for PvE content. If you could make it do only half damage to players (after lowering the damage level to 35% of Power), as you did with Assailing Force, I think that should be sufficient to get it to a reasonable level -- still much stronger than it was originally, but no longer grossly overpowered or too strong with multiple GWFs. Alternately, give players a short-time immunity to damage from Intimidation procs; after taking damage, they should be immune to further damage from Intimidation for 3 seconds or so.
Some GWF at-will attacks could also probably be made to inflict a little more damage than they do currently. Or GWFs could receive a double damage boost for high Strength. At the same time, the stun durations of Frontline Surge and Takedown also present issues; they are excessively long at base levels, but they can also be deflected, which reduces their duration to nearly nil. This means GWFs can perform very well against characters with low deflection, but can experience significant issues inflicting damage to high-deflection characters.
+1
Devs please start to think ;p
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aulduronMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,351Arc User
Updated OP with changes to Wizard and Great Weapon Fighter that are as follows. These changes will *NOT* be in the initial preview push, but should be in a subsequent build.
Control Wizard
Storm Spell: Chance to activate increased to 30%, but can only trigger on critical hits now.
Thaumaturge: Assailing Force: The damage from this power is now activated by Encounter powers rather than all damage.
Orb of Imposition: This class feature has been reverted to a previous state where it grants 5% increased control duration per rank.
Oppressor: Glacial Movement: This feat now increases the effectiveness of each rank of Orb of Imposition by 4/8/12/16/20%.
[/list]
Good. Now you need to give Renegades something similar. For instance, you could get rid of Chaotic Growth, and make it something that procs EotS instead. Or you could give us a feat to raise the effectiveness of Evocation. You made EotS ineffective in PvE, now you're doing the same for Orb. We need something to put in that slot.
This does not look good for CWs at first glance, unless there are major nerfs coming to several other classes. CWs are already a mid-performing class in PvP; currently, most other classes will beat them up in a fair fight -- HRs particularly, but also GFs, GWFs and TRs. The upside here is that excessive control is boring to play against, so hopefully this will be matched by a reduction in the duration of other classes' cc effects. Halving the duration of GF and GWF stuns and increasing the cooldown period for HR Disruptive Shot would be a good way to go.
For a while, CWs were performing strongly in PvP, but this was due to a combination of several factors. You're simultaneously nerfing all of those, putting CWs in a position where they will be even weaker than they were in module 3.
CWs are and remain the squishiest class. The boost to Shield was nice, but the across-the-board increase in damage that all classes have received means that Shield has become a necessary crutch against some classes that put out excessive damage, rather than an option. This means the Shield "boost" actually masks how bad the situation has become and is a form of nerf in the sense that CWs get one less encounter power to slot than they used to.
In module 4, you nerfed the damage of individual CW single-target encounter spells, but moved this damage to feats and passive procs. Most players that have spoken on the matter have agreed that this made the CW less fun and less fun to play against.
Increasing CW control was necessary to begin with because CWs had too little control in PvP. With the sum of the changes you introduced in module 4, they got access to too much control when also taking into consideration other things the module introduced, particularly the Red Glyphs, which would allow CWs to do a lot of damage with simple Ray of Frost spam, while maintaining iron control. Through module 4, you've nerfed the chill boost to CW control, made sure CWs no longer get *any* chance at landing cc against a GF that has a clue, and now you're also reverting Orb of Imposition.
As the end result, it looks like CWs will be left with none of the module 4 boosts intact, while you're retaining the nerfs, and allowing other classes to maintain their boosted damage levels, leaving CWs depending on Shield and with a net nerf -- worse off than module 3.
I would suggest the following amendments:
Chill stacks stick to control-immune targets for a period of time, but do not freeze them until they cease being control immune. This would allow CWs to freeze GFs and GWFs more reliably, restoring some control to them, while giving the GF/GWF better control of *when* they get frozen so they can maneuver themselves to counter or mitigate. It would also mean certain feats and passive features that rely on chill stacks would have a meaningful effect.
CWs receive double the control bonus for a high Wisdom score, or +1% control bonus per point of Intelligence above 10. This would allow all CWs a little more control at base levels, without being excessive. It would also serve to differentiate CW ability score arrays a bit more, and serve as a match to the change GFs received to hit points in module 4. In return, the Oppressor boost to Orb of Imposition could be slightly lowered to 3/6/9/12/15%. That would mean that ability would still be very good for Oppressors, but a little more balanced against alternative options. It would also retain what you are trying to do here by differentiating the the three CW feat paths a little more.
Giving CWs higher control resist for Wisdom could also be a potential way to slightly improve their survivability without going too far over the top.
Shard of the Endless Avalanche should inflict much greater damage while slotted in Spell Mastery. Currently, no one ever uses this spell in PvP anymore, because it yields low damage, retains a high cooldown and remains an unreliable, high-skill move. The benefits simply far outweigh the risks.
As for the Intimidation change, at the 35% level, it would still have the potential to inflict too much damage. The issue isn't just the level of damage it inflicts, but the fact that it is area damage, it belongs to the tankiest GWF build, and several GWFs cooperating to use it in tandem will be far deadlier (while each remains a fairly hard-to-kill character). Even at 35%, it will spawn the potential for troll compositions of three or more GWFs running together, using that build in PvP. At the same time, it's not a bad thing to have for PvE content. If you could make it do only half damage to players (after lowering the damage level to 35% of Power), as you did with Assailing Force, I think that should be sufficient to get it to a reasonable level -- still much stronger than it was originally, but no longer grossly overpowered or too strong with multiple GWFs. Alternately, give players a short-time immunity to damage from Intimidation procs; after taking damage, they should be immune to further damage from Intimidation for 3 seconds or so.
Some GWF at-will attacks could also probably be made to inflict a little more damage than they do currently. Or GWFs could receive a double damage boost for high Strength. At the same time, the stun durations of Frontline Surge and Takedown also present issues; they are excessively long at base levels, but they can also be deflected, which reduces their duration to nearly nil. This means GWFs can perform very well against characters with low deflection, but can experience significant issues inflicting damage to high-deflection characters.
frontline surge have 17 seconds CD and 2k base dmg ( thx to unreasonable dmg nerf w,o CD reduction)so nerfing stun duration on it would make this enc useless.
Quite the contrary. You just need to think about the potential for abuse. In a situation where it's a 3v3 on mid, and three players on one team form up to be a GWF troll composition running Intimidate, how would that go? We can assume that some of the procs will be deflected, some may be dodged. But given the damage levels people are able to achieve, that would still leave three players dead or near-dead, and three GWFs quite alive, given that they can still remain quite tanky with the Intimidation spec. This would be especially bad if the GWFs would coordinate their procs to maximize the potential. (It's also worth to bear in mind that the procs can be hard to dodge given the lack of visual signs; it involves a fair bit of guesswork and some luck.) Giving players a time-limited immunity against Intimidation procs wouldn't hurt a single GWF much, as he could just stagger out his procs to compensate, but it would hurt the potential for running troll compositions of multiple GWFs.
And how is that any different from 3 CWs spamming CCs, AoEs and whatnot (all from a safe distance, mind you)? What about 3 immortal combat specced HRs? What about 3 perma TRs (now 1 HKO executioners)? Or 3 Knight Challenge spamming GFs? To be fair, let's give immunity after each attack in the game then, ok?
And the animations for DS and CAGI have more than enough clues. Especially DS, its animation speed is probably just a slight bit faster than IBS and can be walked away from (only 20 ft. range). And what does a sentinel GWF have when he exhausts these 2 encounters and is on 15s+ cooldown? Spam at-wills that deal a max of 1k per hit? You don't know what you're talking about, seriously.
As for the Intimidation change, at the 35% level, it would still have the potential to inflict too much damage. The issue isn't just the level of damage it inflicts, but the fact that it is area damage, it belongs to the tankiest GWF build, and several GWFs cooperating to use it in tandem will be far deadlier (while each remains a fairly hard-to-kill character). Even at 35%, it will spawn the potential for troll compositions of three or more GWFs running together, using that build in PvP.
Intimidation was fine even at 50%... Problem is that classes can stack too much of the same stat plus extra bonuses!
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mutjinninjaMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 93Arc User
Updated OP with changes to Wizard and Great Weapon Fighter that are as follows. These changes will *NOT* be in the initial preview push, but should be in a subsequent build.
Control Wizard
Storm Spell: Chance to activate increased to 30%, but can only trigger on critical hits now.
Thaumaturge: Assailing Force: The damage from this power is now activated by Encounter powers rather than all damage.
Orb of Imposition: This class feature has been reverted to a previous state where it grants 5% increased control duration per rank.
Oppressor: Glacial Movement: This feat now increases the effectiveness of each rank of Orb of Imposition by 4/8/12/16/20%.
Great Weapon Fighter
Sentinel: Intimidation: This feat now deals 7/14/21/28/35% of your Power in damage (down from 10/20/30/40/50%).
I know this feedback will most likely fall on deaf dev ears, but I might as well try anyway.
Please. Leave. SS. Mages. Alone. Honestly, every patch concerns them in some way. Yes, they are preforming very well and that's good!! You've done a good job thus far with the paragon path. Now, stop nerfing it and give some love to the master of flame cws. SS is good and superior to MoF right now. What needs to happen is not to continually bring SS down to MoF level, but to bring MoF up. Instead of throwing out nerfs left and right to the SS, leave it alone, recognize that you've made it a good and viable choice, and then do the same to MoF. It would prevent so much QQ from SS cws and much praise and thanks from MoF runners.
Also, I agree with the GWF change here. Sents finally get damage, but it was so much before. I feel this, for once, is a reasonable nerf. It brings it back in line without being too drastic.
I don't mind renege buff at all. Problem is that only changes are Buffs. If you remember main problem with CW was and is now even worse is the CW stacking. To fix this they sad they will make OR control OR damage. But not both. On current state CWs have it all and are still PVE kings. And still OP in pvp. Even thought even Crush stated that IR are pretty much impossible to dodge. So I do what to see changes to CWs in both sides as it is for HRs. Rather then 80% useless chanes to HR - nobody from HR have problems with AP gain. We either have no good dailies or good dailies are so much nerfed that having then used again is useless -like disruptive nerf with strormstep action.
And congrats to all CWs that cried about Piercing damage and HR nerf. Now you will have it more )
Did you read the thread ? Allow me to remind you :
New Changes! (Not in the 10/10 Preview build)
Control Wizard
Storm Spell: Chance to activate increased to 30%, but can only trigger on critical hits now.
Thaumaturge: Assailing Force: The damage from this power is now activated by Encounter powers rather than all damage.
Orb of Imposition: This class feature has been reverted to a previous state where it grants 5% increased control duration per rank.
Oppressor: Glacial Movement: This feat now increases the effectiveness of each rank of Orb of Imposition by 4/8/12/16/20%.
Did you read the thread ? Allow me to remind you :
These are nerfs if you haven't noticed.
For pve wizards they aren't. The way a half geared SS CW works is as follows, 1) build mob train, 2) stop when the train is long enough or the door is reached , 3) proc eots 4) nuke down the train. Repeat until boss.
30% SS is just a bigger tac nuke. No one is running orb of imposition in dungeons. Well pointsman said earlier he uses it EDV. I don't. The process remains more or less the same just with a less satisfying quantity of mobs. Maybe if the fight takes over 4 minutes is will be a noticable dps loss.
Now for a pvp wizard with hir garbage damage on at wills that storm spell change, well its a nerf because you can't nuke down a 50khp guy with high deflect and resistance. And you won't be seeing a lot of SS without running eots. Certainly it will be far from dependable.
Did you read the thread
Storm Spell: Chance to activate increased to 30%, but can only trigger on critical hits now.
this might need adjusting, either damage or chance, or make it 100% with ICD, but it could work well - you get crit proc and on top of it get more storm spell procs, it increases burst damage
Orb of Imposition: This class feature has been reverted to a previous state where it grants 5% increased control duration per rank.
Oppressor: Glacial Movement: This feat now increases the effectiveness of each rank of Orb of Imposition by 4/8/12/16/20%.
this is as it should be, if cw dont want to sacrifice dps on all trees for the cc they have then they have to chose cc or dps
but cw should get more stuff to make them better in pvp, atm the proc and autotarget based play style is boring
imho cw damage should be moved to encounters, and survivability increased*
*im a gwf so cws seem to be meh for me, but i only pug and havent played vs many good cws
I like forcing CWs to choose which way they wanna go: control or dps. Now having all this, un-nerf CW single target powers. Devs, you also cannot have it all: nerfing control for thaumas and renes and keep their single target encounters so weak. If our choice will make us control less, we should have our single target encounters more reliable.
Also, consider bringing Shield to what it supposed to be before nerf. You are planning on giving TRs chance to one-shot ppl? Fine. Make shield as strong as it initially supposed to be.
Btw. casting time should be back to what it was before m4. Now once CW starts casting, it's like launching bullet time - s l o o o o o o o w. It already causes troubles in game play where encounters get cancelled if hotkeys are pressed too quick. This ruins smooth dynamic touch to pvp and pve alike.
Bids he then the spruces to singer him an anthems!
And the Woodsie Lord binders them fleshes to stone!
These are needed changes for CW's in regards to PVE. Forcing a choice between super CC with moderate damage or really good AOE dps with moderate CC is how it should be. The toning down of the storm spell and assailing force also is a good and well balanced change for PVE. Having said that for pvp......you just made CW's a free kill. We were average at best in pvp when compared to GWF's/GF's/HR's as it stands now on live. This really is an easy fix though. Shield needs boosted to absorb more damage and last longer, entangling force's animation needs to be sped up considerably, chill strike needs to fire off much faster, RoE needs to hit harder and the at will animations need sped up. Fairly simple fixes I'd think.
Yes, *sigh* of course overgeared and skilled CWs players should stomp anyone in pug pvp. That's to be expected. CWs have never been a dominant force in pvp, on live, it's rather a "kill it before it kills you" class. If you can't kill it in one rotation you're dead. I'm not sure CWs need more tanking right now (because i care about pve balance too), but nerfing orb into uselessness unless you chose the all control no damage tree sucks. In pvp if you have control but no damage you're a dead weight, with all these 50k HP gwfs, rangers and tank, all CC immune randomly killing wizards in a couple of hits. All CWs have is some CC and decent burst damage. No CC immunity, no ridiculously OP and boring tanking, just CC and damage. Now both are going to be removed.
So YES orb has to stay as it is on live. Or the devs could give us a dual spec and let us play with different things. At-wills not triggering assailant sucks too. What's the point of a capstone feat if it does no damage and gives you nothing good at all? That's supposed to be strong. If the current implementation is bad design, at least, admit it and give it a 2nd rework instead of just making it progressively totally useless until no one plays thaum at all. I'd hate to be locked out of pvp because I play a DC and a CW only. The DC will still be garbage even after the rework (thanks to righteousness) and the CW is about to be nuked too. Well mod 5 is about to be awesome. No more pvp for me.
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aulduronMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,351Arc User
edited October 2014
Yes having a capstone that does no damage would make you a Renegade.
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gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
I am disappointed in the changes to Hunter Ranger. Piercing blades in its current state is what makes Rangers competitive ever since the last round of nerfs to the class. If PB is to be nerfed we need more of our other feats and powers reworked to make other builds viable, not just 2 feats in the trapper tree that hardly anyone uses. Lots of HR's encounters, dailys and class features are very bad and hardly get used, please fix these first if you are going to nerf anything from HR.
Examples:
Cold Steel Hurricane- damage too low
Rain of arrows- too hard to use effectively with the small aoe
Stormstep action too little benefit for too short for a daily power
all 3 pathfinder class features are weak, hardly ever use them.
Slashers mark too weak for the amount of AP it costs, reduce AP cost or increase damage and debuff.
That would, but it would also make a 3-second non-ancient thorned root go from 500% to 750% and 7+ sec ancient thorned root (from Master Trapper, etc) go from 500% to at least 1750%. Balance is the key and finding a number that would come close to the non-ancient thorned root DPS without penalizing the ancient root is key.
New Changes! (Not in the 10/10 Preview build) Great Weapon Fighter
Sentinel: Intimidation: This feat now deals 7/14/21/28/35% of your Power in damage (down from 10/20/30/40/50%).
Feedback: Sentinel GWF's have too low threat generation. With Intimidation doing 50% power damage (and 100% threat) we just get agroo when we use DS, and then, we lost agroo again. So, with this nerf, I really think it will be very important to give GWF a huge threat generation, to make us more viable tanks for pve.
Updated OP with changes to Wizard and Great Weapon Fighter that are as follows. These changes will *NOT* be in the initial preview push, but should be in a subsequent build.
Control Wizard
Storm Spell: Chance to activate increased to 30%, but can only trigger on critical hits now.
Thaumaturge: Assailing Force: The damage from this power is now activated by Encounter powers rather than all damage.
Orb of Imposition: This class feature has been reverted to a previous state where it grants 5% increased control duration per rank.
Oppressor: Glacial Movement: This feat now increases the effectiveness of each rank of Orb of Imposition by 4/8/12/16/20%.
Great Weapon Fighter
Sentinel: Intimidation: This feat now deals 7/14/21/28/35% of your Power in damage (down from 10/20/30/40/50%).
Good changes on CWs. and as most of adequte CWs here say works in right direction. Thank you for making CW as control or damage rather then kings on both.
About Trappers Ancient Roots and " Control durations are increased by 60%" - last one makes its even worse IMHO. Since Trapper i guess will still be getting 60% damage boost for still 10 second -It makes no sence really to take Ancient Roots. Plus all damage is weapon base damage dependable rather then overall damage made -eg like Thron roots.
What would do good job if you do both or one maybe
- increase control strength and maybe control radius in Biting Snares.
- make Thron roots deal damage based on encounter damage rather then weapon damage.
Also about WM. I had table for you Crush in mod 4 preview that you sad does not work. Well after mod 4 went like you obviously could see that having 1 sec ICD makes it impossible to reach 10 stacks in 99.9% cases. Maybe as proposal you could make it 3 stacks but no ICD? Also move it to t2 of combat? so that archers and trappers could possible get it? this is dramatically increase variation of builds possible. While this will effect combat HRs healing in someway - currently I see WM giving like 10% of all healing I personally have while still at 6-8 top stacks in pve with 50% deflection rate. Maybe you could also make HR more skillful rather then passive by making Fluid Hunter as t3 or t4 with 10% defelection severity rather then 2.5% deflection change - most of people skip this feat anyway not. This will make pure combat HR make a choice of sacrafice - severity or WM or LS or shift cooldown. More variety is better for balance.
Last point - what do you plan on doing with 100% useless daily - cold steal hurricane?
Slashers mark if valueble only in like 5% - pretty much like oh well nothing else to slot anyway and this boss does not move so why not.
Also cruel recovery is also never used - maybe you could make it party wide and more % or stackable? . Rarely ever used are Commanding shot or Oak skin. I do hope last ones will be more valueble with trapper changes.
Stormstep had huge pvp nerf that lead to low use of this one too
Comments
They are trying to differentiate between control and dps for CW, much like everyone was all for trying to differentiate between tank and dps for GWF, isn't karma lovely?
+1 on this
It is obvious that the capstone will cause imbalance in pvp (and will be "meh" in endgame pve). and as much as the destroyer go out of focus, the stack system is boring.
ps:the Combat Advantage Duration is increased to 1.5/3/4.5/6/7.5 seconds (up from 1/1.5/2/2.5/3 seconds).
sorry, what is the point? the mark change dont transcended this?
note:This "rework" dont need overbuff the instigator to be a king in "x" ou "Y". something useful and functional is ok.
What I think would be better is to buff Companion Actives granting Control bonus or Increase the amount of Control Bonus CW players received from WISdom attribute, while reducing Orb of Imposition Control Bonus accordingly, so that the overall Control Bonus amount remains the same.
What this does is allow players who invest in WISdom (rather than CHArisma) and other sources of Control Bonus can still have semi-decent control without needing to spec Oppressor for it. Doing so already gives up immense amounts of potential damage.
By only moving Orb of Imposition bonus to Oppressor, Oppressors can safely remain CHArisma focussed and take all damage boosting Companion Actives/Artifacts and overall deal very good damage while having the most Control.
The side effect is to make WISdom actually worth taking at all for Control Wizards, rather than always go straight for INTelligence + CHArisma. And it wouldn't make it a must-have, just an equally good alternative.
Analysis:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?752441-Control-Bonus-suggestion-sources-and-numbers
Threat was ok as it was with 50% bonus dmg so we need a bit more threat to compensate the dmg loss.
So the reduction to Storm Spell will result in a substantial drop in CW Spell Storm DPS, which will render it noticably inferior to Master of Flame.
Is this intentional? Currently based on Abaddon523's testing MoF & Spell Storm are roughly balanced.
+1 this. Need more threat to compensate.
They're not. When i respec'd from master of fire to stormspell I had a 35% damage increase, mostly coming from the storm class feature. Now if they could make fanning the flame as it was before they nerfed it it would be great.
I second this post. Thorned roots from separate encounter powers not stacking makes no sense; if damage from a non-rooting attack is on top of thorned-root damage, why would a separate encounter power (say hindering after constricting) be treated differently?
I would add one additional suggestion for the Ancient Roots/Thorned Roots problem: instead of dealing 500% damage spread out over the duration, why not switch to x% (say 100-125 at rank 5) per second of the control effect; this way it would be consistent and Trappers won't have to sacrifice DPS to get the extended control. Non-Ancient Roots wouldn't deal as much damage, but why should they? For control-immune targets it would work the same (1/2 total damage dealt immediately)
Look at http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?772771-CW-Testing for current testing.
good suggestion!
but damage amount should be ~250% per second in order to save current dps
+1
Devs please start to think ;p
Good. Now you need to give Renegades something similar. For instance, you could get rid of Chaotic Growth, and make it something that procs EotS instead. Or you could give us a feat to raise the effectiveness of Evocation. You made EotS ineffective in PvE, now you're doing the same for Orb. We need something to put in that slot.
frontline surge have 17 seconds CD and 2k base dmg ( thx to unreasonable dmg nerf w,o CD reduction)so nerfing stun duration on it would make this enc useless.
And how is that any different from 3 CWs spamming CCs, AoEs and whatnot (all from a safe distance, mind you)? What about 3 immortal combat specced HRs? What about 3 perma TRs (now 1 HKO executioners)? Or 3 Knight Challenge spamming GFs? To be fair, let's give immunity after each attack in the game then, ok?
And the animations for DS and CAGI have more than enough clues. Especially DS, its animation speed is probably just a slight bit faster than IBS and can be walked away from (only 20 ft. range). And what does a sentinel GWF have when he exhausts these 2 encounters and is on 15s+ cooldown? Spam at-wills that deal a max of 1k per hit? You don't know what you're talking about, seriously.
Intimidation was fine even at 50%... Problem is that classes can stack too much of the same stat plus extra bonuses!
I know this feedback will most likely fall on deaf dev ears, but I might as well try anyway.
Please. Leave. SS. Mages. Alone. Honestly, every patch concerns them in some way. Yes, they are preforming very well and that's good!! You've done a good job thus far with the paragon path. Now, stop nerfing it and give some love to the master of flame cws. SS is good and superior to MoF right now. What needs to happen is not to continually bring SS down to MoF level, but to bring MoF up. Instead of throwing out nerfs left and right to the SS, leave it alone, recognize that you've made it a good and viable choice, and then do the same to MoF. It would prevent so much QQ from SS cws and much praise and thanks from MoF runners.
Also, I agree with the GWF change here. Sents finally get damage, but it was so much before. I feel this, for once, is a reasonable nerf. It brings it back in line without being too drastic.
Did you read the thread ? Allow me to remind you :
New Changes! (Not in the 10/10 Preview build)
Control Wizard
Storm Spell: Chance to activate increased to 30%, but can only trigger on critical hits now.
Thaumaturge: Assailing Force: The damage from this power is now activated by Encounter powers rather than all damage.
Orb of Imposition: This class feature has been reverted to a previous state where it grants 5% increased control duration per rank.
Oppressor: Glacial Movement: This feat now increases the effectiveness of each rank of Orb of Imposition by 4/8/12/16/20%.
These are nerfs if you haven't noticed.
For pve wizards they aren't. The way a half geared SS CW works is as follows, 1) build mob train, 2) stop when the train is long enough or the door is reached , 3) proc eots 4) nuke down the train. Repeat until boss.
30% SS is just a bigger tac nuke. No one is running orb of imposition in dungeons. Well pointsman said earlier he uses it EDV. I don't. The process remains more or less the same just with a less satisfying quantity of mobs. Maybe if the fight takes over 4 minutes is will be a noticable dps loss.
Now for a pvp wizard with hir garbage damage on at wills that storm spell change, well its a nerf because you can't nuke down a 50khp guy with high deflect and resistance. And you won't be seeing a lot of SS without running eots. Certainly it will be far from dependable.
this is as it should be, if cw dont want to sacrifice dps on all trees for the cc they have then they have to chose cc or dps
but cw should get more stuff to make them better in pvp, atm the proc and autotarget based play style is boring
imho cw damage should be moved to encounters, and survivability increased*
*im a gwf so cws seem to be meh for me, but i only pug and havent played vs many good cws
Also, consider bringing Shield to what it supposed to be before nerf. You are planning on giving TRs chance to one-shot ppl? Fine. Make shield as strong as it initially supposed to be.
Btw. casting time should be back to what it was before m4. Now once CW starts casting, it's like launching bullet time - s l o o o o o o o w. It already causes troubles in game play where encounters get cancelled if hotkeys are pressed too quick. This ruins smooth dynamic touch to pvp and pve alike.
So YES orb has to stay as it is on live. Or the devs could give us a dual spec and let us play with different things. At-wills not triggering assailant sucks too. What's the point of a capstone feat if it does no damage and gives you nothing good at all? That's supposed to be strong. If the current implementation is bad design, at least, admit it and give it a 2nd rework instead of just making it progressively totally useless until no one plays thaum at all. I'd hate to be locked out of pvp because I play a DC and a CW only. The DC will still be garbage even after the rework (thanks to righteousness) and the CW is about to be nuked too. Well mod 5 is about to be awesome. No more pvp for me.
Seconded. This would make it really fun.
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Examples:
Cold Steel Hurricane- damage too low
Rain of arrows- too hard to use effectively with the small aoe
Stormstep action too little benefit for too short for a daily power
all 3 pathfinder class features are weak, hardly ever use them.
Slashers mark too weak for the amount of AP it costs, reduce AP cost or increase damage and debuff.
That would, but it would also make a 3-second non-ancient thorned root go from 500% to 750% and 7+ sec ancient thorned root (from Master Trapper, etc) go from 500% to at least 1750%. Balance is the key and finding a number that would come close to the non-ancient thorned root DPS without penalizing the ancient root is key.
Anarchist, level 60 CW
Arsenic, level 60 TR
Pluck Yew, level 60 HR
Therapissed, level 60 DC
Feedback: Sentinel
GWF's have too low threat generation. With Intimidation doing 50% power damage (and 100% threat) we just get agroo when we use DS, and then, we lost agroo again. So, with this nerf, I really think it will be very important to give GWF a huge threat generation, to make us more viable tanks for pve.
Good changes on CWs. and as most of adequte CWs here say works in right direction. Thank you for making CW as control or damage rather then kings on both.
About Trappers Ancient Roots and " Control durations are increased by 60%" - last one makes its even worse IMHO. Since Trapper i guess will still be getting 60% damage boost for still 10 second -It makes no sence really to take Ancient Roots. Plus all damage is weapon base damage dependable rather then overall damage made -eg like Thron roots.
What would do good job if you do both or one maybe
- increase control strength and maybe control radius in Biting Snares.
- make Thron roots deal damage based on encounter damage rather then weapon damage.
Also about WM. I had table for you Crush in mod 4 preview that you sad does not work. Well after mod 4 went like you obviously could see that having 1 sec ICD makes it impossible to reach 10 stacks in 99.9% cases. Maybe as proposal you could make it 3 stacks but no ICD? Also move it to t2 of combat? so that archers and trappers could possible get it? this is dramatically increase variation of builds possible. While this will effect combat HRs healing in someway - currently I see WM giving like 10% of all healing I personally have while still at 6-8 top stacks in pve with 50% deflection rate. Maybe you could also make HR more skillful rather then passive by making Fluid Hunter as t3 or t4 with 10% defelection severity rather then 2.5% deflection change - most of people skip this feat anyway not. This will make pure combat HR make a choice of sacrafice - severity or WM or LS or shift cooldown. More variety is better for balance.
Last point - what do you plan on doing with 100% useless daily - cold steal hurricane?
Slashers mark if valueble only in like 5% - pretty much like oh well nothing else to slot anyway and this boss does not move so why not.
Also cruel recovery is also never used - maybe you could make it party wide and more % or stackable? . Rarely ever used are Commanding shot or Oak skin. I do hope last ones will be more valueble with trapper changes.
Stormstep had huge pvp nerf that lead to low use of this one too