Well this is what i mean by fixing mod 3 spikes. I like the play style in mod 2/3. And nod holder HR is no anyway right way to be. What i mean is that I liked synergy between bow and melee to to damage and usage of all encounter rather then having 1 rotation for all cases. Plus CWs GF DCs are now changed too. so picture is different now I hope.
yeah like thorn ward + mediation , that wasn't a rotation ? ;-s
HR has only 1 viable paragon for pvp like GWF with sentinel paragon, difference between me and you thedemien is that i want to have all 3 paragons balanced between them, and not havin all paragons to one hit the same as sentinel does.
you or clinging to combat paragon too much instead of wanting to have the otehr 2 viable for pvp, for that you may bring suggestion, but nerfs as well, as i can see it, you either debating
they need to nerf boons
or either bring the old hr from mod3
but you dont want that for combat and selfhealing to be tonned down as first thing. to get it up in line with the other classes.
Well ill advice you to read my posts. I tend to personally like combat - true. But I what it be mod 2/3 game style where bow was valuable. Same as were archers.
About self healing I mostly worried is that having it nerfed as WM is will make 0 valuable paths for HR.
I do suggest now and suggested bunch of times earlier how to increase survival skill on trapper. I suggested to remove WM completely - even before last 1/2 nerf for pvp and make it 10-15% deflection severity as t2. This would give trapper way to sacrifice some of his damage or control for survival skills. And the same time will remove self healing you are so worried about and make gameplay more skillful and predictable.
Archer on other hand do need some control. So my original suggestion was to make construction work as it was before but with some nerfs rather then what we have now - hindering, constrictive, binding kinda work only for trapper and still do exact same thing. This makes archers perfect target for GWF with immunity sprint and one rotation kill. Since you actually can not root them in spring - only deal half of damage from power in case of trapper not even archer.
There were plenty of good suggestions for to change HRs picture. not that they are considered by devs. On other side devs tend to have HR as self healing machines to compensate that we lost all CC except boars, nerf to disruptive, have small area dodges (mostly effects pve), lost tab as mechanism, and have no CC brakers that other classes do have.
Do i like it - no. Do I what to change it -yes. Will nerf of LS for combat help to fix root problems - no. I belive it will just make combat useless in both pvp and pve.
Will nerf of Endless and general LS changes help - yes.
yeah like thorn ward + mediation , that wasn't a rotation ? ;-s
who are you ingame?
no no no. this is wrong way of balancing and not the way it should be )
. There should not be one rotation kills for any class. period. Enough of Roar GWF or freeze and knife CWs. or Thorn and chill HRs.
BTW we still have thorn and meditation. Thorn was nerfed to only one place-able as it should be. But how many HR do you see now use it? ) Cause now you can not kill anyone with this one rotation. I do believe if it would still work you would be able to see more often right? Anyway if it was so op then it is a good point to decrease that part if you assume mod 2/3 HR as base for rework. This is just a suggestion of mechanic of bow/melee and more skillful gameplay rather then - only as mod 3 and no changes.
PS I pm you.
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schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
Well ill advice you to read my posts. I tend to personally like combat - true. But I what it be mod 2/3 game style where bow was valuable. Same as were archers.
About self healing I mostly worried is that having it nerfed as WM is will make 0 valuable paths for HR.
I do suggest now and suggested bunch of times earlier how to increase survival skill on trapper. I suggested to remove WM completely - even before last 1/2 nerf for pvp and make it 10-15% deflection severity as t2. This would give trapper way to sacrifice some of his damage or control for survival skills. And the same time will remove self healing you are so worried about and make gameplay more skillful and predictable.
Archer on other hand do need some control. So my original suggestion was to make construction work as it was before but with some nerfs rather then what we have now - hindering, constrictive, binding kinda work only for trapper and still do exact same thing. This makes archers perfect target for GWF with immunity sprint and one rotation kill. Since you actually can not root them in spring - only deal half of damage from power in case of trapper not even archer.
There were plenty of good suggestions for to change HRs picture. not that they are considered by devs. On other side devs tend to have HR as self healing machines to compensate that we lost all CC except boars, nerf to disruptive, have small area dodges (mostly effects pve), lost tab as mechanism, and have no CC brakers that other classes do have.
Do i like it - no. Do I what to change it -yes. Will nerf of LS for combat help to fix root problems - no. I belive it will just make combat useless in both pvp and pve.
Will nerf of Endless and general LS changes help - yes.
Sorry but no Endless have nothing to do with LS OPness.
MY CW dont have Endless nor my HR(archer) or my GWF or MY SW all of them can steal from 1 daly/or encounter more then they hp bar X 3.
Sorry but no Endless have nothing to do with LS OPness.
MY CW dont have Endless nor my HR(archer) or my GWF or MY SW all of them can steal from 1 daly/or encounter more then they hp bar X 3.
Well devs already sad - they are not happy with LS now. So they will change it soon I hope. My SW heals himself from 10 to 100 with 22% LS in pvp without even Endless too. But Endless makes it x3 time more and works too good and too often. And HR do a lot of hits - so it has even more changes to proc and heal HR. Id prefer to have LS fixed in first place for all classes first.
Sorry but no Endless have nothing to do with LS OPness.
MY CW dont have Endless nor my HR(archer) or my GWF or MY SW all of them can steal from 1 daly/or encounter more then they hp bar X 3.
Lol. How many HP do you have? Because that smells like BS to me.
Lol. How many HP do you have? Because that smells like BS to me.
ive gotten 450k+ heals on gwf (avalanche)
smth like 200k IBS can do it at a bit over 10% LS at 3 targets, getting the numbers isnt hard
depends on the damage u do, but in solo content it works ok, nothing op for most classes
Paladin Master Race
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gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
edited October 2014
Feedback Trapper:
Did some more testing in the new HEs in the Well of Dragons. It is definitely solid and a ton of fun. It works better than Archer if there's no GF taking aggro. What I would suggest would be to increase the radius of Constricting Arrow and Hindering Strike and possibly increase the target limit of both from 5 to 8.
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
to respond to you nezzral
1.i was suggestin Mighty leap as a prone for PVE mostly dunno how will go out in a pvp.
2. yes , thats why i was sayn the changes on intimidation its exactly for this reason. even if you think defense it's useless , but at least it will remain a TANK stats for a TANK paragon . thats exactly first reason. it shouldn't be a tank paragon a glasscannon and do better burst than offensive paragons. thats not good. and the only way to fix it and make it viable is the way i am sayin without breakin the mechanic or makin this build useless.
3 [Combat (Self)] King Of the İce 6's Barkshield Armor absorbs 1 (1) damage from your Fey Thistle.
[Combat (Self)] Your Fey Thistle deals 987 (1010) Physical Damage to King Of the İce 6.
[Combat (Self)] Your Health Steal gives 31 (60) Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] King Of the İce 6 deals 9100 (14107) Cold Damage to you with Ice Knife.
[Combat (Self)] King Of the İce 6 deals 387 (600) Fire Damage to you with Aspect of Flames.
[Combat (Self)] Your Ferocious Reaction gives 1186 (2297) Hit Points to you. [Combat (Self)] Your Health Steal gives 1050 (2035) Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] Your Ferocious Reaction gives 5931 (11486) Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] King Of the İce 6's Barkshield Armor absorbs 1 (1) damage from your Ferocious Reaction.
[Combat (Self)] Your Ferocious Reaction deals 11234 (11486) Physical Damage to King Of the İce 6.
[Combat (Self)] Your Health Regen gives 1193 (2310) Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] Must have a target.
[Combat (Self)] Your Unstoppable gives 1186 (2297) Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] Your Health Regen gives 1193 (2310) Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] Your Health Regen gives 1193 (2310) Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] Your Health Regen gives 2386 (2310) Hit Points to you.
so is there any huge DPS that i dont know about?
this 11k damage 1 at 3 mins it's nothing in a pvp 1vs1.
this is a newly and freshed combat log.
BTW: in pvp for instigator / destro encounters are this:
Takedown/Frontline surge and IBS
reason is that stun is influenced by other things other the control resist .
so on preview playin instigator i have the same rotation as for destroyer.
using the runner build as destroyer its out of the question for me.
That's more like it! A lot of GWF go with BF, but with trample the fallen 5/5 exec and 5/5 relentless and powerful sure strike(s) + ibs , is a lot more effective in my opinion over perma. However perma is good for harass, lock down 1v1 on players with low hp or pugs ... and then run for pots. It's a personal choice. Both viable. But high end performance will need like 55k hp on both.
Instigator unlike Destro with 5s cd on take down needs more CC. Mighty leap with prone on "one target" - probably, "closest" target, is a good solution and give damage to the rest. Otherwise AOE with prone is too OP. Added to that the instigator need some defense for it to be viable, otherwise Destro is better as it builds faster determination. If you take the CC into account with trample the fallen with 5s td and 5/5 exec Destro has higher damage. 4th column has no use in Destro tree, just my opinion.
Destro > Instigator, why?
2 5s CD TD + 1 FLS + Trample the fallen + Sure Strike / IBS
- IBS is stronger
- sure Strikes are stronger (Wicked and Reaping are useless in PvP)
- more CC
- more tank (faster determination build)
Migthy leap with "aoe" prone will be too OP. Migthy leap with prone to "nearest" target is what it needs. Instigator also needs more defense. Some useless feat from 3rd and 4th column to substitute to AC of some sort.
As for sentinel with 35% power is "okay" for this mod. People think 10k power sentinel, but reality is those sentinel are like paper and can die quite easily too. The reason why they are noticable is, because say, a 12k power GWF roll with a DC, and the DC gets to be the "punch bag". This module also has a +8 AC neck. So combined with the 35% power and extra DR%, I think it may make more sense to go with 4x purified set and keep 8k powered Sentinel. However, it's hard to tell unless you really start pushing limits and performing results in PvP. So we have to wait till mod5. Otherwise, your suggestion is the better route, however the rate has to be more than 50%. I would suggest the following instead:
IMPROVING ON YOUR IDEA:
Intimidation on 80% of DR% and acts on "power". In short players will be pushed to take purified on sentinel and balance their offense. Not stack power or stack defense only. So say on a purifed set, sentinel is getting 45% DR. 80% of that is approx ~35%. So if some comedian is stacking 12k power and 35 dr%, NOT WORTH IT! It's better to keep 45% DR and 8k power i.e. he is forced to build DR% and balance it out with power!
I've been trying all morning, but I cannot reproduce this effect. Can you provide some more context about what powers were hitting you? The power has a bunch of failsafes to try and prevent behavior like this, and they all seem to be working in my testing.
PvP nub try it on various dot damage. And ... can you please appoint an advocate we can work with, who plays GWF, as his main and do a little check who you are appointing GWF in-game, how difficult is that?
Now do you want the BEST PvP FEEDBACK? Here it is, and this is what is the major root of most of your problems!
1. Potion and glyphs in PvP. This totally imbalances pvp.
2. Start making more PVP types. Not just capture the flag, how about get 50 kills wins
3. Start making new maps based on what is said in 2. No one is excited about "tia-zzzzz-mat"
4. Increase spawn time for death in PvP.
And I know nothing will be done about it, because you will try to find workarounds. Lurking in forums won't give you the answer. You have to start rolling into premade vs premade, on a regular basis.I am sorry, if this sounds harsh but I think is a good practical advice!
still u didnt understand about intimidation nezraal. but i will take my time
1. intimidation 35% out of power, now gwf with pots legendary necks\/offhand can get up to 11k power easily, just easily, so that make the nerf from 50% for nothin.
what i want is to give 50% out of defense, it doesnt have nothing to do with DR% at all.
50% out of how much defense can you stack on GWF for PVP , well , me and you think about pvp, we wont remove our RADIANTS for AZURE, not a chance to change radiance for azure, no , no is a no.
so how much defense can we get? yes.. we will be forced to get full purified as gwf , so we will have a max of 4000 defense, some extremists guys probably will take titan set or someth that gives more DEFENCE
but we pvps will always get maximum HP.
either way you look it,
defense wont be like POWER as it is on LIVE right now 12k-13k with pots.
so yeah.
DEFENSE is the only way to balance out sentinels
so makin an OP build is impossible for this reason either you dotn have enough power or hp or defence.
a viable build as sentinel is
4000 defense half of it as damage is 2000 that means x 45% db (7000 poweR) and crit severity = a number. ofc it will be smaller, alot smaller than this burst right now. on live.
if all paragons would be made as i said, i am 100% it will be balanced, the class will be balanced both pvp and pve at the same time, only problem it will be other classes.
CAUSE I REPEAT AGAIN, CALLIN UP FOR MORE DAMAGE ISN'T A GOOD IDEA TAKIN IN CONSIDERATION THAT OTHER CLASSES SHOULD BE TONED DOWN, and the gwf i am hopin will be will be on par with CW. as i tested out things.
IMPROVING ON YOUR IDEA:
"Intimidation on 80% of DR% and acts on "power". In short players will be pushed to take purified on sentinel and balance their offense. Not stack power or stack defense only. So say on a purifed set, sentinel is getting 45% DR. 80% of that is approx ~35%. So if some comedian is stacking 12k power and 35 dr%, NOT WORTH IT! It's better to keep 45% DR and 8k power i.e. he is forced to build DR% and balance it out with power!"
here you almost got it but it isn;t about DR %,
so 50% out of max DEFENSE = 4k defense or 5k defense = 2000 damage that multiplies with power/crit seveirty and givin shorten CD on daring shout/cagi by 2 seconds it will balance up the sentinel paragon , and yes people on stack up power creep, and wont stack only defense as they need HP to survive pvp. sentine will have around 48% DR with that Defense. and i am not sayin 80% out of another number percent
i am just sayin as it is now
on previe 35% out of 10000 power = 3500
i am sayin
50% out of 4000 defense= 2000 , it's the same thing, but it will depend on defense
and it will be multiplied by damage bonus from power and crit severity
and yeah, he will be forced to be a tank paragon and have some power too.
thats the meaning of burst damage.
btw: this for PVE will be an excelent thing.
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nezraalMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
here you almost got it but it isn;t about DR %,
so 50% out of max DEFENSE = 4k defense or 5k defense = 2000 damage that multiplies with power/crit seveirty and givin shorten CD on daring shout/cagi by 2 seconds it will balance up the sentinel paragon , and yes people on stack up power creep, and wont stack only defense as they need HP to survive pvp. sentine will have around 48% DR with that Defense. and i am not sayin 80% out of another number percent
i am just sayin as it is now
on previe 35% out of 10000 power = 3500
i am sayin
50% out of 4000 defense= 2000 , it's the same thing, but it will depend on defense
and it will be multiplied by damage bonus from power and crit severity
and yeah, he will be forced to be a tank paragon and have some power too.
thats the meaning of burst damage.
btw: this for PVE will be an excelent thing.
I will tell you why it's not the same and it's improved
1. Sentinel forth column supports 5 AC
2. There is a new neck piece out there with 8 AC.
It's better to do it off of DR% instead of defense only. I took the idea from you but I think making it act on DR% is better. Basically I am saying, not only are Sentinel encouraged to wear purified/defense gear but also wear AC related gear. One example is the new neck piece with +8 AC!
Also, I think the bigger factor impacting PvP are:
POTS - which should be taken out of PvP!
GLYPHS- which should be nerfed in pvp!
ARP - should be scaled lower. Diminish at 1500 the same way at 2000 currently.
CRITICAL DAMAGE - is imbalanced. I think each tenacity should cut 2.5% severity!
DEATH PENALTY TIME - increased!
(i.e. not spam and run to flag point, spam postal aoe damage kamikaze style with paper defense and repeat. Also a kill requiring "some" skills are rewarded.)
If there are any classes (example, CW) who are heavily dependent on glyph, with the nerf in glyph if their damage is under powered give them additional damage somewhere else. But the first step is to get rid / lower the value of the items listed above. Without this, there will be no true balance in PvP, with the current design, it's impossible.Also people need to lower power as well for more demanding RI% as well as give more importance to DR% and tenacity. For example, players will wear 2x450 tenacity rings, which supports the spirit of the game.
The core of most problems is this, the five points listed above. No workarounds will truly work otherwise.
aulduronMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,351Arc User
edited October 2014
Control Wizard
Renegade: Chaos Magic: Fury - Now grants 30% damage and 10% Life Steal (up from 10% and 5% respectively).
Renegade: Chaos Magic: Nexus - Now grants 30% Armor Penetration and 30% Critical Chance (up from 10%).
Renegade: Chaos Magic: Growth - Now heals every .5 seconds for 250% of your weapon damage (up from 200% every second).
Renegade: Masterful Arcane Theft: Damage bonus increased to 3/6/9/12/15% on targets affected by Chill (up from 1/2/3/4/5%) and 1.2/2.4/3.6/4.8/6% per stack of Arcane Mastery (up from .6/1.2/1.8/2.4/3%).
Renegade: Chilling Advantage: Chilling Presence increases Critical Chance by 2/4/6/8/10% (up from 1/2/3/4/5%).
Fury is pretty good. Nexus isn't bad, even though most of us are probably maxed on ArP. Growth is kind of a waste though. The biggest problem with Chaos Magic is that it's almost always Growth that procs. Fury and Nexus are pretty rare.
AMT is better.
Chilling Presence still doesn't make Chilling Presence worth slotting. Besides, Renegades should be concentrating on Arcane stacks, not Chill. Chill is for Oppressors and Thaums.
Arcane stacks need to be easier to build, and should last longer. It takes 3 MMs for 1 stack, EF on mastery (not a real good idea anymore) for 1 stack per mob pulled, 1 stack for Singularity, which is pretty much never used in ToD. 1 stack for OF (we want those stacks before OF), 1 stack for RoE, a 1 stack for every few seconds you stand next to the shard which is rarely worth slotting anymore. Each stacks seems to only last about 2 seconds. Chill stacks last much longer and are far easier to build.
Nightmare Wizardry is pretty underwhelming as everyone and their sister now grants CA to the party. It would be much better if I ever saw Phantasmal Destruction proc (is there even a floaty for it?) more often.
The biggest problem with Renegade is the fact that we have to put 5 points into our T2, neither of which is worth using. Thaums and Oppressors can both dip into the other trees for up to 10 points, even into T2. Renegades can do 5 max, because we have to waste 5 on our T2, and if you're not going to take both T3s, there is no sense in being a Renegade.
Sentinel: Intimidation: This feat now deals 7/14/21/28/35% of your Power in damage (down from 10/20/30/40/50%).
This change is not enough. This is still creating a huge problem wherein the designated "Tank" tree of the GWF is still able to pull huge amounts of damage. *This is heavily imbalanced for both PvP and PvE purposes*. If PvP is ever meant to be balanced and taken seriously, this must be fixed as it offers way too much burst for a class that already has significant damage mitigation. In terms of PvE, it's allowing "tank" Great Weapon Fighter's to vastly outdamage other classes by a wide margin.
This imbalance is realized in PvP when dealing with actual high end Great Weapon Fighter which are able to deal 10k hits and upwards of 28k crits in PvP on players that have hit the Tenacity cap and are stacking defense and this is all within an Area of Effect.
This imbalance is also seen in PvE where a Great Weapon Fighter can achieve 158k crits and 60-75k hits with appropriate group buffs, vastly outpowering any other classes.
I will remind you that this damage is all coming from the designated "tank" tree.
I offer the following suggestions as they are as simple as altering a few digits in the code. These changes will preserve the role of the GWF as per the specialization of each tree.
Sentinel: Intimidation
The Feat deals 6/12/18/12/15% of total Power for Come and Get It and Daring Shout. The Threat from the damage produced is multiplied by 7x and all attacks generate an additional 100% threat against affected targets.
This would by and large come as a fix for both PvE and PvP. This would legitimize the Great Weapon Fighter as a PvE tank, able to hold threat reliably, albeit more susceptible to 1-shot capable bosses without Unstoppable.
As for PvP, this would come as a balance as the "Tank" spec of the Great Weapon Fighter would indeed deal less damage than the designated "Damage" spec. In general, this would transform a Sentinel Great Weapon Fighter into a mobile version of a Guardian Fighter when unstoppable is active.
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gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
edited October 2014
Delete this post. It was a reply to a post that has been updated
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
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gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
are now THE SAME THING. The only difference is that hindering has 3 seconds cooldown the other 15.
And this is like this since the start of module 4.
Well, no. Constricting is an area power and hindering applies weak roots instead of strong as far as I can see. Anyway I agree that Binding is completely superseded by Constrictive and should be reworked.
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
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gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
Did some more testing in the new HEs in the Well of Dragons. It is definitely solid and a ton of fun. It works better than Archer if there's no GF taking aggro. What I would suggest would be to increase the radius of Constricting Arrow and Hindering Strike and possibly increase the target limit of both from 5 to 8.
Some extra feedback on single targets: it still lags behind too much compared to Archer even trying to use Aspect of the Serpent to maximum extent. Fighting Lostmauth, DPS goes down by approximately 30% compared to an Archer.
Tried to different setups:
- Constrictive, Careful Attack, Rain of Arrrows, Thorned Ward. Trying to keep two stacks of Serpent for ranged by applying Careful Attack and using Constrictive + Stance change to reapply Careful in order to trigger Master Trapper
- The usual complete rotation (Rain/Sword, Hindering Shot/Strike, Fox's Cunning/Shift)
Results were pretty much the same.
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
@nezrall i dont think its ok takin from DR% , its way simpler and easy from DEFENSE
@tsokushin , droppin it down to 15% will make the build not viable at all. , as you stack alot of power you will lose other stats as defense/deflect, no one will chose it for that low damage/big cooldowns/ low defense.
why can't you see it, cause it's so easy
50% out of DEFENSE would solve it out !!!!
@nezrall i dont think its ok takin from DR% , its way simpler and easy from DEFENSE
@tsokushin , droppin it down to 15% will make the build not viable at all. , as you stack alot of power you will lose other stats as defense/deflect, no one will chose it for that low damage/big cooldowns/ low defense.
why can't you see it, cause it's so easy
50% out of DEFENSE would solve it out !!!!
100% defense could work plus a buff to threat part.
a thing is sure:
intimidation is a proc of utility encounters with not that long cooldowns (13s and 16s).
As it is now in preview is continue to crit for 30-35k AOE and the tree offers free tankiness as well.
this should not happen.
To do a comparison, is like giving to trapper HR a 35k in fox cunning, or a 35k proc to bait and switch or a 35k proc to shield.
@tsokushin , droppin it down to 15% will make the build not viable at all. , as you stack alot of power you will lose other stats as defense/deflect, no one will chose it for that low damage/big cooldowns/ low defense.
why can't you see it, cause it's so easy
50% out of DEFENSE would solve it out !!!!
You forget that the capstone of Sentinel tree gives 80% damage reduction on Unstoppable. In any case, none are meant to take the tank tree and expect to do more damage than the damage trees. They should expect to hold threat and survive in PvE and have extensive survivability in PvP, not do more damage than any other tree.
And I have still seen ridiculous power levels from Great Weapon Fighters in full Purified Black Ice Sets. 9k and Above while still maintaining high defense. Tenacity isn't much of a problem for them due to unstoppable.
As for PvE, the Damage is indeed lower, but I have seen Great Weapon Fighters using Intimidation and topping Paingiver by margins of 250k to over 1 million. This is absolutely obscene in any sense of balance.
With my suggestion, threat is actually increased, while damage is decreased, which actually fits the Idea of Sentinel being a tank tree.
Calculations are based off pure numbers, not taking into account any damage bonus whatsoever. Two numbers produced, low end power and High end power. My proposed fixes are quoted to show them.
Sentinel: Intimidation
The Feat deals 6/12/18/12/15% of total Power for Come and Get It and Daring Shout. The Threat from the damage produced is multiplied by 7x and all attacks generate an additional 100% threat against affected targets.
Live: 50% of Power dealt as damage. Double the threat on that Damage 9000 power
.5*9000= 4500 damage
Effective Threat: 9000
4000 Power
.5*4000=2000 Damage
Effective Threat: 4000
Test Changes
9000 Power
.35*9000=3150 Damage
Effective Threat: 6300
4000 Power
.35*4000=1400 Damage
Effective Threat: 2800
My Proposed Changes
9000 Power
.15*9000=1350
Effective Threat:9450
4000 Power
.15*4000=600
Effective Threat:4200
The inherent issue is that there can easily be huge % modifiers, some of which already lie in the Sentinel tree with the Combat Advantage bonus. So, the damage itself may seem low, but then again, 4500 damage seemed low with 9000 power and people are able to reach absurd levels of damage with just that much.
Sent tree for be for tanking and tanking only, with the first 2 tiers to augment the other Damage specializations.
You forget that the capstone of Sentinel tree gives 80% damage reduction on Unstoppable. In any case, none are meant to take the tank tree and expect to do more damage than the damage trees. They should expect to hold threat and survive in PvE and have extensive survivability in PvP, not do more damage than any other tree.
And I have still seen ridiculous power levels from Great Weapon Fighters in full Purified Black Ice Sets. 9k and Above while still maintaining high defense. Tenacity isn't much of a problem for them due to unstoppable.
As for PvE, the Damage is indeed lower, but I have seen Great Weapon Fighters using Intimidation and topping Paingiver by margins of 250k to over 1 million. This is absolutely obscene in any sense of balance.
With my suggestion, threat is actually increased, while damage is decreased, which actually fits the Idea of Sentinel being a tank tree.
Calculations are based off pure numbers, not taking into account any damage bonus whatsoever. Two numbers produced, low end power and High end power. My proposed fixes are quoted to show them.
Live: 50% of Power dealt as damage. Double the threat on that Damage 9000 power
.5*9000= 4500 damage
Effective Threat: 9000
4000 Power
.5*4000=2000 Damage
Effective Threat: 4000
Test Changes
9000 Power
.35*9000=3150 Damage
Effective Threat: 6300
4000 Power
.35*4000=1400 Damage
Effective Threat: 2800
My Proposed Changes
9000 Power
.15*9000=1350
Effective Threat:9450
4000 Power
.15*4000=600
Effective Threat:4200
The inherent issue is that there can easily be huge % modifiers, some of which already lie in the Sentinel tree with the Combat Advantage bonus. So, the damage itself may seem low, but then again, 4500 damage seemed low with 9000 power and people are able to reach absurd levels of damage with just that much.
Sent tree for be for tanking and tanking only, with the first 2 tiers to augment the other Damage specializations.
i REPEAT AGAIN as i play GWF and know about it !!!
50% out of defense is the solution , DEFENSE instead of POWER , DEFENSE DEFENSE DEFENSE
if 50% is to much, then 35% out of DEFENSE . BUT DEFENSE WILL SOLVE THE INTIMIDATION and make SENTINEL PARAGON worth takin both pvp/pve
raydran cooldowns on cagi/daring shout are 14 sec (15 sec without rechargin speed) and 17 sec (18.9 sec without rechargin speed)
i REPEAT AGAIN as i play GWF and know about it !!!
50% out of defense is the solution , DEFENSE instead of POWER , DEFENSE DEFENSE DEFENSE
if 50% is to much, then 35% out of DEFENSE . BUT DEFENSE WILL SOLVE THE INTIMIDATION and make SENTINEL PARAGON worth takin both pvp/pve
raydran cooldowns on cagi/daring shout are 14 sec (15 sec without rechargin speed) and 17 sec (18.9 sec without rechargin speed)
so yeah
And this solution requires much less coding and would actually ensure balance both in PvP and PvE. I also have a GWF and I know about the cooldowns, but from what I've seen capable in PvP and PvE, this is the best option. If you want damage, go Destroyer or Instigator (after mod 5). If you want tankyness and threat building, go Sentinel.
This solution would provide lasting effects and ensure balance throughout all scaling and when accounting for all damage bonuses.
Could you Devs pleases consider the following little quality of life change to the Hunter ranger Class feature, Aspect of the pack:
Give it a buff icon, the ones next to your character portrait, like the rest of the class features and feats. Make it so it also shows up on ur allies too when they are recieving the buff, like fox cunning.
It would make it soooo much easier on everyones positioning to take advantage of the class feature.
Could you please do this? This will improve qol for aspect of pack greatly.
And this solution requires much less coding and would actually ensure balance both in PvP and PvE. I also have a GWF and I know about the cooldowns, but from what I've seen capable in PvP and PvE, this is the best option. If you want damage, go Destroyer or Instigator (after mod 5). If you want tankyness and threat building, go Sentinel.
This solution would provide lasting effects and ensure balance throughout all scaling and when accounting for all damage bonuses.
and this will make GWF sentinel be chosen by people for PVE that they want to tank and keep aggro.
lets take out the builds that you see now on live
12000 power and 2000 defense
and let's put up my theory
half of 2000 = 1000 damage multiplied with 70% damgeb(power) and crit severity
is it better than 12000 power = 6000 damage multiplied with 70% damageb(power) and crit
hell yeah, its far better
builds that we can see will be based around 4000 defense or 5000 defense at most in PVE , and this will provide tankines for sentinel , around 48% damage resistance, probably it will hit 50% , exactly like a GF , and wont deal much of a burst damage as it does right now.
5000 defense = 2500 damage , multiplied with 50% (8000 power) and crit severity.
so it wont outdamage GWF destroyer or instigator. and will be able to keep threat atleast.
maybe i am rash demanding shorten cooldowns, but at least make them more responsive
Daring shout animation is kinda broken sometimes
Cagi doesnt do damage sometimes.
not to say, when enemy is proned or after you are revived by soulforge/teammates and try using cagi/daringshout
you wont do any damage to enemies dont know the reason of it, probably animation and how responsive they are.
so i ask either leave as they are and shorten cooldowns by 2 seconds
either solve those animation problems
changes for destroyer , are increase his capstone to give 20% damage bonus by takin the capstone, and leave 10% damage bonus while unstopable + 1% damage bonus / 1 stack = 20% , resulting 50% damage bonus.
changes for instigator.
change Group assault with nimble runner
-allied oportunity : mighty leap should prone imo, giving a prone to the class and a new playstyle as well, if you've made us of daringshout/cagi on senti para and takedown/roar on destroy paragon, i find normal , to make use of mighty leap as well, giving something special, not only 30% damage increased, cause that wont solve it.
-Group assault should give like this 10% damage more on wicked strike and punishing charge
-nimble runner should be changed into a cap like Focused Destroyer and Master at arms , reason is that this would balance out the paragons even more.
so we have 4 classfeats that are universal both paths , and 2 class feats destroyer and weapon master are used, leaving 2 class feats bravery/steadfastdetermination without a paragon, so what i advice is to put Steadfast Determination on instigator path, resulting that Bravery will be universal too chose, and makin use of steadfast.
so if nimble runner is changed with SteadFast RUNNER or someth like that ,while slotting it will give 50% more determination gain while in combat like the tooltip says, only it will get a boost, and while using unstopable either have 10% deflect increased or give AC 3 points.
and the capstone should be like this
10% damage + 5% damage bonus per /1 stack , that means there are 4 stacks = 30% damage bonus total. and we take it logic
if sentinel has huge unstopable 40%-80% DR , and destroyer has 15-30% DR and has huge DPS , then instigator that has moderate defense abilities/moderate dps, it should give 25-50%DR for instigator. so capstone should give a total of 30% damage bonus and 25-50% DR.
and i bet you will be finished changing things for GWF for a long long time.
this is what will balance the GWF between paragons and it will be made enjoyable for everyone playing it. giving a fair chance for every type of player that is willing either to want to do huge dps, tank, or something between them.
like i said , you should sustain this, cause this won't make the GWF overpowered over other classes, and god no , it will not make him crippled.
and this will make GWF sentinel be chosen by people for PVE that they want to tank and keep aggro.
lets take out the builds that you see now on live
12000 power and 2000 defense
and let's put up my theory
half of 2000 = 1000 damage multiplied with 70% damgeb(power) and crit severity
is it better than 12000 power = 6000 damage multiplied with 70% damageb(power) and crit
hell yeah, its far better
builds that we can see will be based around 4000 defense or 5000 defense at most in PVE , and this will provide tankines for sentinel , around 48% damage resistance, probably it will hit 50% , exactly like a GF , and wont deal much of a burst damage as it does right now.
5000 defense = 2500 damage , multiplied with 50% (8000 power) and crit severity.
so it wont outdamage GWF destroyer or instigator. and will be able to keep threat atleast.
maybe i am rash demanding shorten cooldowns, but at least make them more responsive
Daring shout animation is kinda broken sometimes
Cagi doesnt do damage sometimes.
not to say, when enemy is proned or after you are revived by soulforge/teammates and try using cagi/daringshout
you wont do any damage to enemies dont know the reason of it, probably animation and how responsive they are.
so i ask either leave as they are and shorten cooldowns by 2 seconds
either solve those animation problems
You seem to be misunderstanding the concept of Balancing tankyness with Damage and the entire fact that GWF can pull incredible numbers (read: higher than ice knife DAILY) even with the 35% which is on the test.
For PvE tanking, Threat and mitigation are all that really matters when making a decent tank. My changes would accomplish that and even provide higher threat when using at wills and encounters other than Daring Shout and Come and Get it.
For PvP, Unstoppable provides all the tankiness necessary, therefore there is no reason to provide exceeding damage bonuses. Destroyer and Instigator should always win out in terms of damage. The entire point of going any higher than 2 tiers into Sentinel is to boost longevity and overall durability. There does not need to be any more damage. In any case, a PvP GWF can still resort to using his stuns in the forms of Frontline Surge, Flourish, Takedown, and Indomitable Battle Strike.
A full Sentinel GWF can still deal respectable damage with these abilities, but with Intimidation, the entire design is screwed. They *do not need more damage*, hence the reason for capping intimidation at 15% of power and massively increasing threat gain.
Comments
yeah like thorn ward + mediation , that wasn't a rotation ? ;-s
who are you ingame?
Well ill advice you to read my posts. I tend to personally like combat - true. But I what it be mod 2/3 game style where bow was valuable. Same as were archers.
About self healing I mostly worried is that having it nerfed as WM is will make 0 valuable paths for HR.
I do suggest now and suggested bunch of times earlier how to increase survival skill on trapper. I suggested to remove WM completely - even before last 1/2 nerf for pvp and make it 10-15% deflection severity as t2. This would give trapper way to sacrifice some of his damage or control for survival skills. And the same time will remove self healing you are so worried about and make gameplay more skillful and predictable.
Archer on other hand do need some control. So my original suggestion was to make construction work as it was before but with some nerfs rather then what we have now - hindering, constrictive, binding kinda work only for trapper and still do exact same thing. This makes archers perfect target for GWF with immunity sprint and one rotation kill. Since you actually can not root them in spring - only deal half of damage from power in case of trapper not even archer.
There were plenty of good suggestions for to change HRs picture. not that they are considered by devs. On other side devs tend to have HR as self healing machines to compensate that we lost all CC except boars, nerf to disruptive, have small area dodges (mostly effects pve), lost tab as mechanism, and have no CC brakers that other classes do have.
Do i like it - no. Do I what to change it -yes. Will nerf of LS for combat help to fix root problems - no. I belive it will just make combat useless in both pvp and pve.
Will nerf of Endless and general LS changes help - yes.
no no no. this is wrong way of balancing and not the way it should be )
. There should not be one rotation kills for any class. period. Enough of Roar GWF or freeze and knife CWs. or Thorn and chill HRs.
BTW we still have thorn and meditation. Thorn was nerfed to only one place-able as it should be. But how many HR do you see now use it? ) Cause now you can not kill anyone with this one rotation. I do believe if it would still work you would be able to see more often right? Anyway if it was so op then it is a good point to decrease that part if you assume mod 2/3 HR as base for rework. This is just a suggestion of mechanic of bow/melee and more skillful gameplay rather then - only as mod 3 and no changes.
PS I pm you.
Sorry but no Endless have nothing to do with LS OPness.
MY CW dont have Endless nor my HR(archer) or my GWF or MY SW all of them can steal from 1 daly/or encounter more then they hp bar X 3.
Well devs already sad - they are not happy with LS now. So they will change it soon I hope. My SW heals himself from 10 to 100 with 22% LS in pvp without even Endless too. But Endless makes it x3 time more and works too good and too often. And HR do a lot of hits - so it has even more changes to proc and heal HR. Id prefer to have LS fixed in first place for all classes first.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
ive gotten 450k+ heals on gwf (avalanche)
smth like 200k IBS can do it at a bit over 10% LS at 3 targets, getting the numbers isnt hard
depends on the damage u do, but in solo content it works ok, nothing op for most classes
Did some more testing in the new HEs in the Well of Dragons. It is definitely solid and a ton of fun. It works better than Archer if there's no GF taking aggro. What I would suggest would be to increase the radius of Constricting Arrow and Hindering Strike and possibly increase the target limit of both from 5 to 8.
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Aww man, I thought my 140K hit from an OF was big. That's just...
700k on hall of mirrors gg!
That's more like it! A lot of GWF go with BF, but with trample the fallen 5/5 exec and 5/5 relentless and powerful sure strike(s) + ibs , is a lot more effective in my opinion over perma. However perma is good for harass, lock down 1v1 on players with low hp or pugs ... and then run for pots. It's a personal choice. Both viable. But high end performance will need like 55k hp on both.
Instigator unlike Destro with 5s cd on take down needs more CC. Mighty leap with prone on "one target" - probably, "closest" target, is a good solution and give damage to the rest. Otherwise AOE with prone is too OP. Added to that the instigator need some defense for it to be viable, otherwise Destro is better as it builds faster determination. If you take the CC into account with trample the fallen with 5s td and 5/5 exec Destro has higher damage. 4th column has no use in Destro tree, just my opinion.
Destro > Instigator, why?
2 5s CD TD + 1 FLS + Trample the fallen + Sure Strike / IBS
- IBS is stronger
- sure Strikes are stronger (Wicked and Reaping are useless in PvP)
- more CC
- more tank (faster determination build)
Migthy leap with "aoe" prone will be too OP. Migthy leap with prone to "nearest" target is what it needs. Instigator also needs more defense. Some useless feat from 3rd and 4th column to substitute to AC of some sort.
As for sentinel with 35% power is "okay" for this mod. People think 10k power sentinel, but reality is those sentinel are like paper and can die quite easily too. The reason why they are noticable is, because say, a 12k power GWF roll with a DC, and the DC gets to be the "punch bag". This module also has a +8 AC neck. So combined with the 35% power and extra DR%, I think it may make more sense to go with 4x purified set and keep 8k powered Sentinel. However, it's hard to tell unless you really start pushing limits and performing results in PvP. So we have to wait till mod5. Otherwise, your suggestion is the better route, however the rate has to be more than 50%. I would suggest the following instead:
IMPROVING ON YOUR IDEA:
Intimidation on 80% of DR% and acts on "power". In short players will be pushed to take purified on sentinel and balance their offense. Not stack power or stack defense only. So say on a purifed set, sentinel is getting 45% DR. 80% of that is approx ~35%. So if some comedian is stacking 12k power and 35 dr%, NOT WORTH IT! It's better to keep 45% DR and 8k power i.e. he is forced to build DR% and balance it out with power!
GOOD IDEA???
PvP nub
Now do you want the BEST PvP FEEDBACK? Here it is, and this is what is the major root of most of your problems!
1. Potion and glyphs in PvP. This totally imbalances pvp.
2. Start making more PVP types. Not just capture the flag, how about get 50 kills wins
3. Start making new maps based on what is said in 2. No one is excited about "tia-zzzzz-mat"
4. Increase spawn time for death in PvP.
And I know nothing will be done about it, because you will try to find workarounds. Lurking in forums won't give you the answer. You have to start rolling into premade vs premade, on a regular basis.I am sorry, if this sounds harsh but I think is a good practical advice!
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1. intimidation 35% out of power, now gwf with pots legendary necks\/offhand can get up to 11k power easily, just easily, so that make the nerf from 50% for nothin.
what i want is to give 50% out of defense, it doesnt have nothing to do with DR% at all.
50% out of how much defense can you stack on GWF for PVP , well , me and you think about pvp, we wont remove our RADIANTS for AZURE, not a chance to change radiance for azure, no , no is a no.
so how much defense can we get? yes.. we will be forced to get full purified as gwf , so we will have a max of 4000 defense, some extremists guys probably will take titan set or someth that gives more DEFENCE
but we pvps will always get maximum HP.
either way you look it,
defense wont be like POWER as it is on LIVE right now 12k-13k with pots.
so yeah.
DEFENSE is the only way to balance out sentinels
so makin an OP build is impossible for this reason either you dotn have enough power or hp or defence.
a viable build as sentinel is
4000 defense half of it as damage is 2000 that means x 45% db (7000 poweR) and crit severity = a number. ofc it will be smaller, alot smaller than this burst right now. on live.
if all paragons would be made as i said, i am 100% it will be balanced, the class will be balanced both pvp and pve at the same time, only problem it will be other classes.
CAUSE I REPEAT AGAIN, CALLIN UP FOR MORE DAMAGE ISN'T A GOOD IDEA TAKIN IN CONSIDERATION THAT OTHER CLASSES SHOULD BE TONED DOWN, and the gwf i am hopin will be will be on par with CW. as i tested out things.
IMPROVING ON YOUR IDEA:
"Intimidation on 80% of DR% and acts on "power". In short players will be pushed to take purified on sentinel and balance their offense. Not stack power or stack defense only. So say on a purifed set, sentinel is getting 45% DR. 80% of that is approx ~35%. So if some comedian is stacking 12k power and 35 dr%, NOT WORTH IT! It's better to keep 45% DR and 8k power i.e. he is forced to build DR% and balance it out with power!"
here you almost got it but it isn;t about DR %,
so 50% out of max DEFENSE = 4k defense or 5k defense = 2000 damage that multiplies with power/crit seveirty and givin shorten CD on daring shout/cagi by 2 seconds it will balance up the sentinel paragon , and yes people on stack up power creep, and wont stack only defense as they need HP to survive pvp. sentine will have around 48% DR with that Defense. and i am not sayin 80% out of another number percent
i am just sayin as it is now
on previe 35% out of 10000 power = 3500
i am sayin
50% out of 4000 defense= 2000 , it's the same thing, but it will depend on defense
and it will be multiplied by damage bonus from power and crit severity
and yeah, he will be forced to be a tank paragon and have some power too.
thats the meaning of burst damage.
btw: this for PVE will be an excelent thing.
I will tell you why it's not the same and it's improved
1. Sentinel forth column supports 5 AC
2. There is a new neck piece out there with 8 AC.
It's better to do it off of DR% instead of defense only. I took the idea from you but I think making it act on DR% is better. Basically I am saying, not only are Sentinel encouraged to wear purified/defense gear but also wear AC related gear. One example is the new neck piece with +8 AC!
Also, I think the bigger factor impacting PvP are:
POTS - which should be taken out of PvP!
GLYPHS- which should be nerfed in pvp!
ARP - should be scaled lower. Diminish at 1500 the same way at 2000 currently.
CRITICAL DAMAGE - is imbalanced. I think each tenacity should cut 2.5% severity!
DEATH PENALTY TIME - increased!
(i.e. not spam and run to flag point, spam postal aoe damage kamikaze style with paper defense and repeat. Also a kill requiring "some" skills are rewarded.)
If there are any classes (example, CW) who are heavily dependent on glyph, with the nerf in glyph if their damage is under powered give them additional damage somewhere else. But the first step is to get rid / lower the value of the items listed above. Without this, there will be no true balance in PvP, with the current design, it's impossible.Also people need to lower power as well for more demanding RI% as well as give more importance to DR% and tenacity. For example, players will wear 2x450 tenacity rings, which supports the spirit of the game.
The core of most problems is this, the five points listed above. No workarounds will truly work otherwise.
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Fury is pretty good. Nexus isn't bad, even though most of us are probably maxed on ArP. Growth is kind of a waste though. The biggest problem with Chaos Magic is that it's almost always Growth that procs. Fury and Nexus are pretty rare.
AMT is better.
Chilling Presence still doesn't make Chilling Presence worth slotting. Besides, Renegades should be concentrating on Arcane stacks, not Chill. Chill is for Oppressors and Thaums.
Arcane stacks need to be easier to build, and should last longer. It takes 3 MMs for 1 stack, EF on mastery (not a real good idea anymore) for 1 stack per mob pulled, 1 stack for Singularity, which is pretty much never used in ToD. 1 stack for OF (we want those stacks before OF), 1 stack for RoE, a 1 stack for every few seconds you stand next to the shard which is rarely worth slotting anymore. Each stacks seems to only last about 2 seconds. Chill stacks last much longer and are far easier to build.
Nightmare Wizardry is pretty underwhelming as everyone and their sister now grants CA to the party. It would be much better if I ever saw Phantasmal Destruction proc (is there even a floaty for it?) more often.
The biggest problem with Renegade is the fact that we have to put 5 points into our T2, neither of which is worth using. Thaums and Oppressors can both dip into the other trees for up to 10 points, even into T2. Renegades can do 5 max, because we have to waste 5 on our T2, and if you're not going to take both T3s, there is no sense in being a Renegade.
This change is not enough. This is still creating a huge problem wherein the designated "Tank" tree of the GWF is still able to pull huge amounts of damage. *This is heavily imbalanced for both PvP and PvE purposes*. If PvP is ever meant to be balanced and taken seriously, this must be fixed as it offers way too much burst for a class that already has significant damage mitigation. In terms of PvE, it's allowing "tank" Great Weapon Fighter's to vastly outdamage other classes by a wide margin.
This imbalance is realized in PvP when dealing with actual high end Great Weapon Fighter which are able to deal 10k hits and upwards of 28k crits in PvP on players that have hit the Tenacity cap and are stacking defense and this is all within an Area of Effect.
This imbalance is also seen in PvE where a Great Weapon Fighter can achieve 158k crits and 60-75k hits with appropriate group buffs, vastly outpowering any other classes.
I will remind you that this damage is all coming from the designated "tank" tree.
I offer the following suggestions as they are as simple as altering a few digits in the code. These changes will preserve the role of the GWF as per the specialization of each tree.
Sentinel: Intimidation
The Feat deals 6/12/18/12/15% of total Power for Come and Get It and Daring Shout. The Threat from the damage produced is multiplied by 7x and all attacks generate an additional 100% threat against affected targets.
This would by and large come as a fix for both PvE and PvP. This would legitimize the Great Weapon Fighter as a PvE tank, able to hold threat reliably, albeit more susceptible to 1-shot capable bosses without Unstoppable.
As for PvP, this would come as a balance as the "Tank" spec of the Great Weapon Fighter would indeed deal less damage than the designated "Damage" spec. In general, this would transform a Sentinel Great Weapon Fighter into a mobile version of a Guardian Fighter when unstoppable is active.
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Well, no. Constricting is an area power and hindering applies weak roots instead of strong as far as I can see. Anyway I agree that Binding is completely superseded by Constrictive and should be reworked.
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Some extra feedback on single targets: it still lags behind too much compared to Archer even trying to use Aspect of the Serpent to maximum extent. Fighting Lostmauth, DPS goes down by approximately 30% compared to an Archer.
Tried to different setups:
- Constrictive, Careful Attack, Rain of Arrrows, Thorned Ward. Trying to keep two stacks of Serpent for ranged by applying Careful Attack and using Constrictive + Stance change to reapply Careful in order to trigger Master Trapper
- The usual complete rotation (Rain/Sword, Hindering Shot/Strike, Fox's Cunning/Shift)
Results were pretty much the same.
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
@tsokushin , droppin it down to 15% will make the build not viable at all. , as you stack alot of power you will lose other stats as defense/deflect, no one will chose it for that low damage/big cooldowns/ low defense.
why can't you see it, cause it's so easy
50% out of DEFENSE would solve it out !!!!
100% defense could work plus a buff to threat part.
intimidation is a proc of utility encounters with not that long cooldowns (13s and 16s).
As it is now in preview is continue to crit for 30-35k AOE and the tree offers free tankiness as well.
this should not happen.
To do a comparison, is like giving to trapper HR a 35k in fox cunning, or a 35k proc to bait and switch or a 35k proc to shield.
You forget that the capstone of Sentinel tree gives 80% damage reduction on Unstoppable. In any case, none are meant to take the tank tree and expect to do more damage than the damage trees. They should expect to hold threat and survive in PvE and have extensive survivability in PvP, not do more damage than any other tree.
And I have still seen ridiculous power levels from Great Weapon Fighters in full Purified Black Ice Sets. 9k and Above while still maintaining high defense. Tenacity isn't much of a problem for them due to unstoppable.
As for PvE, the Damage is indeed lower, but I have seen Great Weapon Fighters using Intimidation and topping Paingiver by margins of 250k to over 1 million. This is absolutely obscene in any sense of balance.
With my suggestion, threat is actually increased, while damage is decreased, which actually fits the Idea of Sentinel being a tank tree.
Calculations are based off pure numbers, not taking into account any damage bonus whatsoever. Two numbers produced, low end power and High end power. My proposed fixes are quoted to show them.
Live: 50% of Power dealt as damage. Double the threat on that Damage
9000 power
.5*9000= 4500 damage
Effective Threat: 9000
4000 Power
.5*4000=2000 Damage
Effective Threat: 4000
Test Changes
9000 Power
.35*9000=3150 Damage
Effective Threat: 6300
4000 Power
.35*4000=1400 Damage
Effective Threat: 2800
My Proposed Changes
9000 Power
.15*9000=1350
Effective Threat:9450
4000 Power
.15*4000=600
Effective Threat:4200
The inherent issue is that there can easily be huge % modifiers, some of which already lie in the Sentinel tree with the Combat Advantage bonus. So, the damage itself may seem low, but then again, 4500 damage seemed low with 9000 power and people are able to reach absurd levels of damage with just that much.
Sent tree for be for tanking and tanking only, with the first 2 tiers to augment the other Damage specializations.
1. CW and SW
2. HR and DC
3. GF
4. GWF
5. TR
Mop all the class looks like some people here are saving pearls for themselves, hypocrites
You've got to be kidding me.
i REPEAT AGAIN as i play GWF and know about it !!!
50% out of defense is the solution , DEFENSE instead of POWER , DEFENSE DEFENSE DEFENSE
if 50% is to much, then 35% out of DEFENSE . BUT DEFENSE WILL SOLVE THE INTIMIDATION and make SENTINEL PARAGON worth takin both pvp/pve
raydran cooldowns on cagi/daring shout are 14 sec (15 sec without rechargin speed) and 17 sec (18.9 sec without rechargin speed)
so yeah
And this solution requires much less coding and would actually ensure balance both in PvP and PvE. I also have a GWF and I know about the cooldowns, but from what I've seen capable in PvP and PvE, this is the best option. If you want damage, go Destroyer or Instigator (after mod 5). If you want tankyness and threat building, go Sentinel.
This solution would provide lasting effects and ensure balance throughout all scaling and when accounting for all damage bonuses.
Could you please do this? This will improve qol for aspect of pack greatly.
and this will make GWF sentinel be chosen by people for PVE that they want to tank and keep aggro.
lets take out the builds that you see now on live
12000 power and 2000 defense
and let's put up my theory
half of 2000 = 1000 damage multiplied with 70% damgeb(power) and crit severity
is it better than 12000 power = 6000 damage multiplied with 70% damageb(power) and crit
hell yeah, its far better
builds that we can see will be based around 4000 defense or 5000 defense at most in PVE , and this will provide tankines for sentinel , around 48% damage resistance, probably it will hit 50% , exactly like a GF , and wont deal much of a burst damage as it does right now.
5000 defense = 2500 damage , multiplied with 50% (8000 power) and crit severity.
so it wont outdamage GWF destroyer or instigator. and will be able to keep threat atleast.
maybe i am rash demanding shorten cooldowns, but at least make them more responsive
Daring shout animation is kinda broken sometimes
Cagi doesnt do damage sometimes.
not to say, when enemy is proned or after you are revived by soulforge/teammates and try using cagi/daringshout
you wont do any damage to enemies dont know the reason of it, probably animation and how responsive they are.
so i ask either leave as they are and shorten cooldowns by 2 seconds
either solve those animation problems
changes for destroyer , are increase his capstone to give 20% damage bonus by takin the capstone, and leave 10% damage bonus while unstopable + 1% damage bonus / 1 stack = 20% , resulting 50% damage bonus.
changes for instigator.
change Group assault with nimble runner
-allied oportunity : mighty leap should prone imo, giving a prone to the class and a new playstyle as well, if you've made us of daringshout/cagi on senti para and takedown/roar on destroy paragon, i find normal , to make use of mighty leap as well, giving something special, not only 30% damage increased, cause that wont solve it.
-Group assault should give like this 10% damage more on wicked strike and punishing charge
-nimble runner should be changed into a cap like Focused Destroyer and Master at arms , reason is that this would balance out the paragons even more.
so we have 4 classfeats that are universal both paths , and 2 class feats destroyer and weapon master are used, leaving 2 class feats bravery/steadfastdetermination without a paragon, so what i advice is to put Steadfast Determination on instigator path, resulting that Bravery will be universal too chose, and makin use of steadfast.
so if nimble runner is changed with SteadFast RUNNER or someth like that ,while slotting it will give 50% more determination gain while in combat like the tooltip says, only it will get a boost, and while using unstopable either have 10% deflect increased or give AC 3 points.
and the capstone should be like this
10% damage + 5% damage bonus per /1 stack , that means there are 4 stacks = 30% damage bonus total. and we take it logic
if sentinel has huge unstopable 40%-80% DR , and destroyer has 15-30% DR and has huge DPS , then instigator that has moderate defense abilities/moderate dps, it should give 25-50%DR for instigator. so capstone should give a total of 30% damage bonus and 25-50% DR.
and i bet you will be finished changing things for GWF for a long long time.
this is what will balance the GWF between paragons and it will be made enjoyable for everyone playing it. giving a fair chance for every type of player that is willing either to want to do huge dps, tank, or something between them.
like i said , you should sustain this, cause this won't make the GWF overpowered over other classes, and god no , it will not make him crippled.
You seem to be misunderstanding the concept of Balancing tankyness with Damage and the entire fact that GWF can pull incredible numbers (read: higher than ice knife DAILY) even with the 35% which is on the test.
For PvE tanking, Threat and mitigation are all that really matters when making a decent tank. My changes would accomplish that and even provide higher threat when using at wills and encounters other than Daring Shout and Come and Get it.
For PvP, Unstoppable provides all the tankiness necessary, therefore there is no reason to provide exceeding damage bonuses. Destroyer and Instigator should always win out in terms of damage. The entire point of going any higher than 2 tiers into Sentinel is to boost longevity and overall durability. There does not need to be any more damage. In any case, a PvP GWF can still resort to using his stuns in the forms of Frontline Surge, Flourish, Takedown, and Indomitable Battle Strike.
A full Sentinel GWF can still deal respectable damage with these abilities, but with Intimidation, the entire design is screwed. They *do not need more damage*, hence the reason for capping intimidation at 15% of power and massively increasing threat gain.