are now THE SAME THING. The only difference is that hindering has 3 seconds cooldown the other 15.
And this is like this since the start of module 4.
Well, no. Constricting is an area power and hindering applies weak roots instead of strong as far as I can see. Anyway I agree that Binding is completely superseded by Constrictive and should be reworked.
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
0
gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
Did some more testing in the new HEs in the Well of Dragons. It is definitely solid and a ton of fun. It works better than Archer if there's no GF taking aggro. What I would suggest would be to increase the radius of Constricting Arrow and Hindering Strike and possibly increase the target limit of both from 5 to 8.
Some extra feedback on single targets: it still lags behind too much compared to Archer even trying to use Aspect of the Serpent to maximum extent. Fighting Lostmauth, DPS goes down by approximately 30% compared to an Archer.
Tried to different setups:
- Constrictive, Careful Attack, Rain of Arrrows, Thorned Ward. Trying to keep two stacks of Serpent for ranged by applying Careful Attack and using Constrictive + Stance change to reapply Careful in order to trigger Master Trapper
- The usual complete rotation (Rain/Sword, Hindering Shot/Strike, Fox's Cunning/Shift)
Results were pretty much the same.
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
@nezrall i dont think its ok takin from DR% , its way simpler and easy from DEFENSE
@tsokushin , droppin it down to 15% will make the build not viable at all. , as you stack alot of power you will lose other stats as defense/deflect, no one will chose it for that low damage/big cooldowns/ low defense.
why can't you see it, cause it's so easy
50% out of DEFENSE would solve it out !!!!
@nezrall i dont think its ok takin from DR% , its way simpler and easy from DEFENSE
@tsokushin , droppin it down to 15% will make the build not viable at all. , as you stack alot of power you will lose other stats as defense/deflect, no one will chose it for that low damage/big cooldowns/ low defense.
why can't you see it, cause it's so easy
50% out of DEFENSE would solve it out !!!!
100% defense could work plus a buff to threat part.
a thing is sure:
intimidation is a proc of utility encounters with not that long cooldowns (13s and 16s).
As it is now in preview is continue to crit for 30-35k AOE and the tree offers free tankiness as well.
this should not happen.
To do a comparison, is like giving to trapper HR a 35k in fox cunning, or a 35k proc to bait and switch or a 35k proc to shield.
@tsokushin , droppin it down to 15% will make the build not viable at all. , as you stack alot of power you will lose other stats as defense/deflect, no one will chose it for that low damage/big cooldowns/ low defense.
why can't you see it, cause it's so easy
50% out of DEFENSE would solve it out !!!!
You forget that the capstone of Sentinel tree gives 80% damage reduction on Unstoppable. In any case, none are meant to take the tank tree and expect to do more damage than the damage trees. They should expect to hold threat and survive in PvE and have extensive survivability in PvP, not do more damage than any other tree.
And I have still seen ridiculous power levels from Great Weapon Fighters in full Purified Black Ice Sets. 9k and Above while still maintaining high defense. Tenacity isn't much of a problem for them due to unstoppable.
As for PvE, the Damage is indeed lower, but I have seen Great Weapon Fighters using Intimidation and topping Paingiver by margins of 250k to over 1 million. This is absolutely obscene in any sense of balance.
With my suggestion, threat is actually increased, while damage is decreased, which actually fits the Idea of Sentinel being a tank tree.
Calculations are based off pure numbers, not taking into account any damage bonus whatsoever. Two numbers produced, low end power and High end power. My proposed fixes are quoted to show them.
Sentinel: Intimidation
The Feat deals 6/12/18/12/15% of total Power for Come and Get It and Daring Shout. The Threat from the damage produced is multiplied by 7x and all attacks generate an additional 100% threat against affected targets.
Live: 50% of Power dealt as damage. Double the threat on that Damage 9000 power
.5*9000= 4500 damage
Effective Threat: 9000
4000 Power
.5*4000=2000 Damage
Effective Threat: 4000
Test Changes
9000 Power
.35*9000=3150 Damage
Effective Threat: 6300
4000 Power
.35*4000=1400 Damage
Effective Threat: 2800
My Proposed Changes
9000 Power
.15*9000=1350
Effective Threat:9450
4000 Power
.15*4000=600
Effective Threat:4200
The inherent issue is that there can easily be huge % modifiers, some of which already lie in the Sentinel tree with the Combat Advantage bonus. So, the damage itself may seem low, but then again, 4500 damage seemed low with 9000 power and people are able to reach absurd levels of damage with just that much.
Sent tree for be for tanking and tanking only, with the first 2 tiers to augment the other Damage specializations.
You forget that the capstone of Sentinel tree gives 80% damage reduction on Unstoppable. In any case, none are meant to take the tank tree and expect to do more damage than the damage trees. They should expect to hold threat and survive in PvE and have extensive survivability in PvP, not do more damage than any other tree.
And I have still seen ridiculous power levels from Great Weapon Fighters in full Purified Black Ice Sets. 9k and Above while still maintaining high defense. Tenacity isn't much of a problem for them due to unstoppable.
As for PvE, the Damage is indeed lower, but I have seen Great Weapon Fighters using Intimidation and topping Paingiver by margins of 250k to over 1 million. This is absolutely obscene in any sense of balance.
With my suggestion, threat is actually increased, while damage is decreased, which actually fits the Idea of Sentinel being a tank tree.
Calculations are based off pure numbers, not taking into account any damage bonus whatsoever. Two numbers produced, low end power and High end power. My proposed fixes are quoted to show them.
Live: 50% of Power dealt as damage. Double the threat on that Damage 9000 power
.5*9000= 4500 damage
Effective Threat: 9000
4000 Power
.5*4000=2000 Damage
Effective Threat: 4000
Test Changes
9000 Power
.35*9000=3150 Damage
Effective Threat: 6300
4000 Power
.35*4000=1400 Damage
Effective Threat: 2800
My Proposed Changes
9000 Power
.15*9000=1350
Effective Threat:9450
4000 Power
.15*4000=600
Effective Threat:4200
The inherent issue is that there can easily be huge % modifiers, some of which already lie in the Sentinel tree with the Combat Advantage bonus. So, the damage itself may seem low, but then again, 4500 damage seemed low with 9000 power and people are able to reach absurd levels of damage with just that much.
Sent tree for be for tanking and tanking only, with the first 2 tiers to augment the other Damage specializations.
i REPEAT AGAIN as i play GWF and know about it !!!
50% out of defense is the solution , DEFENSE instead of POWER , DEFENSE DEFENSE DEFENSE
if 50% is to much, then 35% out of DEFENSE . BUT DEFENSE WILL SOLVE THE INTIMIDATION and make SENTINEL PARAGON worth takin both pvp/pve
raydran cooldowns on cagi/daring shout are 14 sec (15 sec without rechargin speed) and 17 sec (18.9 sec without rechargin speed)
i REPEAT AGAIN as i play GWF and know about it !!!
50% out of defense is the solution , DEFENSE instead of POWER , DEFENSE DEFENSE DEFENSE
if 50% is to much, then 35% out of DEFENSE . BUT DEFENSE WILL SOLVE THE INTIMIDATION and make SENTINEL PARAGON worth takin both pvp/pve
raydran cooldowns on cagi/daring shout are 14 sec (15 sec without rechargin speed) and 17 sec (18.9 sec without rechargin speed)
so yeah
And this solution requires much less coding and would actually ensure balance both in PvP and PvE. I also have a GWF and I know about the cooldowns, but from what I've seen capable in PvP and PvE, this is the best option. If you want damage, go Destroyer or Instigator (after mod 5). If you want tankyness and threat building, go Sentinel.
This solution would provide lasting effects and ensure balance throughout all scaling and when accounting for all damage bonuses.
Could you Devs pleases consider the following little quality of life change to the Hunter ranger Class feature, Aspect of the pack:
Give it a buff icon, the ones next to your character portrait, like the rest of the class features and feats. Make it so it also shows up on ur allies too when they are recieving the buff, like fox cunning.
It would make it soooo much easier on everyones positioning to take advantage of the class feature.
Could you please do this? This will improve qol for aspect of pack greatly.
And this solution requires much less coding and would actually ensure balance both in PvP and PvE. I also have a GWF and I know about the cooldowns, but from what I've seen capable in PvP and PvE, this is the best option. If you want damage, go Destroyer or Instigator (after mod 5). If you want tankyness and threat building, go Sentinel.
This solution would provide lasting effects and ensure balance throughout all scaling and when accounting for all damage bonuses.
and this will make GWF sentinel be chosen by people for PVE that they want to tank and keep aggro.
lets take out the builds that you see now on live
12000 power and 2000 defense
and let's put up my theory
half of 2000 = 1000 damage multiplied with 70% damgeb(power) and crit severity
is it better than 12000 power = 6000 damage multiplied with 70% damageb(power) and crit
hell yeah, its far better
builds that we can see will be based around 4000 defense or 5000 defense at most in PVE , and this will provide tankines for sentinel , around 48% damage resistance, probably it will hit 50% , exactly like a GF , and wont deal much of a burst damage as it does right now.
5000 defense = 2500 damage , multiplied with 50% (8000 power) and crit severity.
so it wont outdamage GWF destroyer or instigator. and will be able to keep threat atleast.
maybe i am rash demanding shorten cooldowns, but at least make them more responsive
Daring shout animation is kinda broken sometimes
Cagi doesnt do damage sometimes.
not to say, when enemy is proned or after you are revived by soulforge/teammates and try using cagi/daringshout
you wont do any damage to enemies dont know the reason of it, probably animation and how responsive they are.
so i ask either leave as they are and shorten cooldowns by 2 seconds
either solve those animation problems
changes for destroyer , are increase his capstone to give 20% damage bonus by takin the capstone, and leave 10% damage bonus while unstopable + 1% damage bonus / 1 stack = 20% , resulting 50% damage bonus.
changes for instigator.
change Group assault with nimble runner
-allied oportunity : mighty leap should prone imo, giving a prone to the class and a new playstyle as well, if you've made us of daringshout/cagi on senti para and takedown/roar on destroy paragon, i find normal , to make use of mighty leap as well, giving something special, not only 30% damage increased, cause that wont solve it.
-Group assault should give like this 10% damage more on wicked strike and punishing charge
-nimble runner should be changed into a cap like Focused Destroyer and Master at arms , reason is that this would balance out the paragons even more.
so we have 4 classfeats that are universal both paths , and 2 class feats destroyer and weapon master are used, leaving 2 class feats bravery/steadfastdetermination without a paragon, so what i advice is to put Steadfast Determination on instigator path, resulting that Bravery will be universal too chose, and makin use of steadfast.
so if nimble runner is changed with SteadFast RUNNER or someth like that ,while slotting it will give 50% more determination gain while in combat like the tooltip says, only it will get a boost, and while using unstopable either have 10% deflect increased or give AC 3 points.
and the capstone should be like this
10% damage + 5% damage bonus per /1 stack , that means there are 4 stacks = 30% damage bonus total. and we take it logic
if sentinel has huge unstopable 40%-80% DR , and destroyer has 15-30% DR and has huge DPS , then instigator that has moderate defense abilities/moderate dps, it should give 25-50%DR for instigator. so capstone should give a total of 30% damage bonus and 25-50% DR.
and i bet you will be finished changing things for GWF for a long long time.
this is what will balance the GWF between paragons and it will be made enjoyable for everyone playing it. giving a fair chance for every type of player that is willing either to want to do huge dps, tank, or something between them.
like i said , you should sustain this, cause this won't make the GWF overpowered over other classes, and god no , it will not make him crippled.
and this will make GWF sentinel be chosen by people for PVE that they want to tank and keep aggro.
lets take out the builds that you see now on live
12000 power and 2000 defense
and let's put up my theory
half of 2000 = 1000 damage multiplied with 70% damgeb(power) and crit severity
is it better than 12000 power = 6000 damage multiplied with 70% damageb(power) and crit
hell yeah, its far better
builds that we can see will be based around 4000 defense or 5000 defense at most in PVE , and this will provide tankines for sentinel , around 48% damage resistance, probably it will hit 50% , exactly like a GF , and wont deal much of a burst damage as it does right now.
5000 defense = 2500 damage , multiplied with 50% (8000 power) and crit severity.
so it wont outdamage GWF destroyer or instigator. and will be able to keep threat atleast.
maybe i am rash demanding shorten cooldowns, but at least make them more responsive
Daring shout animation is kinda broken sometimes
Cagi doesnt do damage sometimes.
not to say, when enemy is proned or after you are revived by soulforge/teammates and try using cagi/daringshout
you wont do any damage to enemies dont know the reason of it, probably animation and how responsive they are.
so i ask either leave as they are and shorten cooldowns by 2 seconds
either solve those animation problems
You seem to be misunderstanding the concept of Balancing tankyness with Damage and the entire fact that GWF can pull incredible numbers (read: higher than ice knife DAILY) even with the 35% which is on the test.
For PvE tanking, Threat and mitigation are all that really matters when making a decent tank. My changes would accomplish that and even provide higher threat when using at wills and encounters other than Daring Shout and Come and Get it.
For PvP, Unstoppable provides all the tankiness necessary, therefore there is no reason to provide exceeding damage bonuses. Destroyer and Instigator should always win out in terms of damage. The entire point of going any higher than 2 tiers into Sentinel is to boost longevity and overall durability. There does not need to be any more damage. In any case, a PvP GWF can still resort to using his stuns in the forms of Frontline Surge, Flourish, Takedown, and Indomitable Battle Strike.
A full Sentinel GWF can still deal respectable damage with these abilities, but with Intimidation, the entire design is screwed. They *do not need more damage*, hence the reason for capping intimidation at 15% of power and massively increasing threat gain.
Please make Arcane Presence, Chilling Presence, Orb of Imposition and Evocation useful in some situation.
(´･ ω ･`)
0
nezraalMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited October 2014
it's not. 0.05% HP is better because you get the same damage and not pushing GWF to switch their enchants. it's viable because i don't see any GWF getting beyond the 61k mark. so why not?
This change is not enough. This is still creating a huge problem wherein the designated "Tank" tree of the GWF is still able to pull huge amounts of damage. *This is heavily imbalanced for both PvP and PvE purposes*. If PvP is ever meant to be balanced and taken seriously, this must be fixed as it offers way too much burst for a class that already has significant damage mitigation. In terms of PvE, it's allowing "tank" Great Weapon Fighter's to vastly outdamage other classes by a wide margin.
This imbalance is realized in PvP when dealing with actual high end Great Weapon Fighter which are able to deal 10k hits and upwards of 28k crits in PvP on players that have hit the Tenacity cap and are stacking defense and this is all within an Area of Effect.
This imbalance is also seen in PvE where a Great Weapon Fighter can achieve 158k crits and 60-75k hits with appropriate group buffs, vastly outpowering any other classes.
I will remind you that this damage is all coming from the designated "tank" tree.
I offer the following suggestions as they are as simple as altering a few digits in the code. These changes will preserve the role of the GWF as per the specialization of each tree.
Sentinel: Intimidation
The Feat deals 6/12/18/12/15% of total Power for Come and Get It and Daring Shout. The Threat from the damage produced is multiplied by 7x and all attacks generate an additional 100% threat against affected targets.
This would by and large come as a fix for both PvE and PvP. This would legitimize the Great Weapon Fighter as a PvE tank, able to hold threat reliably, albeit more susceptible to 1-shot capable bosses without Unstoppable.
As for PvP, this would come as a balance as the "Tank" spec of the Great Weapon Fighter would indeed deal less damage than the designated "Damage" spec. In general, this would transform a Sentinel Great Weapon Fighter into a mobile version of a Guardian Fighter when unstoppable is active.
While I sympathize with the notion of reducing Sentinel burst damage from Intimidation, basing the damage on Defense would accomplish that very well, since stacking Defense above a certain level requires sacrificing hit points, and stacking excessive Defense means they'd get less overall tankiness for the purpose of dealing damage. Precisely the kind of trade-off you're talking about.
To give an example: 3,500 Defense yields 34% damage reduction. If you somehow managed to stack to 8,000 Defense, you get about 41.47% damage reduction. Factoring in AC, but nothing else (to keep things simple), that would be 40.5% and 47% respectively. That would be roughly a 12% increase in ability to sustain damage (not factoring in complicating factors like ArP), for 4,500 stat points, which is the equivalent of 18,000 hit points (in order for 18,000 hit points to equate to a 12% gain, the GWF would have to have 150k hit points to start with). This obviously isn't entirely accurate, but it should demonstrate that stacking Defense over hit points for the purpose of boosting Intimidation damage leads to an overall loss of ability to withstand damage.
thx
so lets recap:
POWER on offense slots
HP on Defense slots
with lathandar neck i will add another 300 power + 300 defense.
so i will have 7800= 8000 power
with 4200 defense
half of defense = 2100 damage multiplied with 50% Damage bonus + crit severity etc.
well its already a big difference that 12k power = 6000 damage x 75% damage bonus.
it's 3x times lower, not to mention this damage can be blocked/dodged and missed.
as the name say it's Burst damage, either we like the encounter or not.
if 50% is to much, a 35% would be perfect. but yes, either way you look at it, this wont outdps destro or instigator.
and again
those numbers in PVE that you saw with 150k crit, thats because they were debuffed.
i hit with ibs as destro while debuffed over 200k crit.
AND REASON why it shouldn't be nerfed to the ground it offers a different way of playin the GWF
CAGI/daring shout are aoe and they dont stun/controll targets.
Takedown/FLS will go to to instigator/destroyer as they are more of a strikers somehow.
0
nezraalMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited October 2014
Minus 1406 ArP only, Need to push that ArP to 2.2k and 29 CON. The RI% in PVP need to be pushed to 38% at-least! A lot of stats from your build is taken away if you add more ArP. If you want we can pvp each other. I have taken out GWF with 1.5k+ more power but refused to push RI% 10/10 time. He also had a perfect vorp. vs my GPF, my handle is nezraal, add me.
Shall we experiment?
My suggestion, 0.05 x 44k HP = 2200 damage. It's almost the same and also, it keeps the incentive of GWF keeping HP in their defense slot. I think both of you are almost in the right track.
Minus 1406 ArP only, Need to push that ArP to 2.2k and 29 CON. Your RI% in PVP need to be pushed to 38% at-least! If you want we can pvp each other. I have taken out GWF with 1.5k+ more power but refused to push RI% 10/10 time. He also had a perfect vorp. vs my GPF, my handle is nezraal, add me.
My suggestion, 0.05 x 44k = 2200 damage. Also it keeps the incentive of GWF keeping HP in their defense slot.
listen, that would be troublesome for PVE players that wants to play as tanks on a gwf class.
@tsuokushin
changes for destroyer , are increase his capstone to give 20% damage bonus by takin the capstone, and leave 10% damage bonus while unstopable + 1% damage bonus / 1 stack = 20% , resulting 50% damage bonus.
changes for instigator.
change Group assault with nimble runner
-allied oportunity : mighty leap should prone imo, giving a prone to the class and a new playstyle as well, if you've made us of daringshout/cagi on senti para and takedown/roar on destroy paragon, i find normal , to make use of mighty leap as well, giving something special, not only 30% damage increased, cause that wont solve it.
-Group assault should give like this 10% damage more on wicked strike and punishing charge
-nimble runner should be changed into a cap like Focused Destroyer and Master at arms , reason is that this would balance out the paragons even more.
so we have 4 classfeats that are universal both paths , and 2 class feats destroyer and weapon master are used, leaving 2 class feats bravery/steadfastdetermination without a paragon, so what i advice is to put Steadfast Determination on instigator path, resulting that Bravery will be universal too chose, and makin use of steadfast.
so if nimble runner is changed with SteadFast RUNNER or someth like that ,while slotting it will give 50% more determination gain while in combat like the tooltip says, only it will get a boost, and while using unstopable either have 10% deflect increased or give AC 3 points.
and the capstone should be like this
10% damage + 5% damage bonus per /1 stack , that means there are 4 stacks = 30% damage bonus total. and we take it logic
if sentinel has huge unstopable 40%-80% DR , and destroyer has 15-30% DR and has huge DPS , then instigator that has moderate defense abilities/moderate dps, it should give 25-50%DR for instigator. so capstone should give a total of 30% damage bonus and 25-50% DR.
This thread is not for debating other people's feedback, nor is it to discuss one's merits as a player. Period. It is to bring up to the devs YOUR experience on the preview server with the new balance changes.
Going forward, any post which does not meet this criteria will be removed without notice.
ROLL TIDE ROLL
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
Feedback: Control Wizard Storm Spell and Assailant Changes
The changes on Storm Spell (Moving to 30% proc, from 20%, **but** only on crits) and Assailant (To be activated only on Encounters) have a general impact on damage reduction close to 15% overall.
My Overall feeling : Moving the cursor of the CWs Skills to more rewarding challenges (More Active vs Less Passive) is good BUT should be compensated by getting the same overall damage (eg: Rewarding the More Active Skills), and this is where the Mod5 proposed changes need some adjustments.
Thanks to Devs !
0
nezraalMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited October 2014
@effectenstein - PvE GWF players run AoW set, not BI and most run destroyers. There is no defense in AoW, so HP based is better than defense, if anyone chooses to go sentinel off-tank PvE and holds same merit in PvP. GF makes a better tank, taking argo and also shares KV to suit that intended role.
- STOP USING POTS in PVP (THE DIFFERENCE ON STACKED POTS ARE EYE POPPING!)
- NERF GLYPH in PVP
- BETTER MATCH MAKING FOR PVP
- DIFFERENT LADDER FOR PREMADE VS NON PREMADE, NON-PREMADE TAKE "ONLY 1" PARTNER
- MORE PENALTY FOR KILLED PLAYERS, BETTER SURVIVAL SKILLS = MORE MERIT
- INSTIGATOR GWF IS NOT PVP VIABLE, RECOMMEND ADDING AC IN SOME FEAT!
- DESTROYER TREE IS HIT & RUN PUNCH BAG, NEED MORE DEFENSE STATS IN FEAT!
- MORE PVP TYPES THAT DOES NOT INVOLVE CAPTURE THE FLAG, TEAM WITH 100 KILL WINS IN A NEW MAP
- 3s STUN FEEL LIKE 0.9s - 1.5s in PVP, GIVE GWF AT-LEAST ONE PRONE LIKE BULL CHARGE
- SHORTER ANIMATION TIME AND MORE RANGE ON IBS, MAKE IT LIKE RS
- MORE CD IN DS FOR GWF , 25 from 20 an 2s more cd, compensation for 35% nerf
- BUG! AFTER PAGE 30, LADDER RANK FALLS EVEN IF I WIN GAMES!
- DR% in PVP is worth "0%" because everyone has RI% at 40+ (or most people in end game do), RECOMMENDED 75% of Current RI% from ARP so having "defense" carries meaning
- INCREASE VALUE OF TENACITY SO IT TACKLES HIGHER % OF CRITICAL SEVERITY, RECOMMEND 2.5%
(40% DR CAN GET 30k CRITICAL DAMAGE FROM DIFFERENT CLASSES! BALANCED ???)
Regularly running 20k+ GS premade each day and based on experience, the first two and last point need serious consideration! BEST FEEDBACK, MOST POINTS APPLIES FOR ALL CLASSES FOR A BALANCED PVP!
- DESTROYER TREE IS HIT & RUN PUNCH BAG, NEED MORE DEFENSE STATS IN FEAT!
Armoured melee fighter transmuted into a roadrunner? The very idea was bad in the first place. And it could not possibly be more remote from what an armoured melee fighter is DnD-wise.
Remove the run and bring back the DR.
ToD = ..........
Tired of Dailies/Tyranny of Dailies/Timers of Doom/Tricked Or Duped/Tremendously Obnoxious Dailies/Try Otherwise, Devs
If it's supposed to be a tank-DPS hybrid, then the "tank" part is lacking. It's not tankier than a destroyer and the nible runner feat is not enough.
Suggestion: add 25-50% DR to unstoppable from feat or allow increased determination gain through advanced feats.
Examples: instigator vengeance now gives 25-50% DR on unstoppable
Or:
Nible runner allows for 15-30-45-60-75% faster determination gain when receiving damage during sprint.
Please change the combat advantage to a mark. Weapon master has a hard time marking enemies so this should apply a mark instead of giving combat advantage only. The duration could also be 10-12 seconds.
1. Magic Missiles needs a small buff regarding the casting time. As it is now, It cannot compete with Ray of frost and that is forcing people to use one at-will. I've been running over 200 PvP matches since Module 4 and I don't think I've seen a single CW using MM on a higher level.
Ray of frost gives both control, chillstacks and proccs stormspell = more control and damage than Magic missiles.
2. Fury, Nexus and Growth needs the same chance to procc, as it is now the best one proccs very little and the most useless one proccs the most. That is kinda false advertising when you read the tooltip.
3. Chilling Presence needs a damage buff. Rank 3 should give 6% damage instead of 3%. OR remove the need of Chilling Presence in the Renegade feat, Chilling advantage.
4. Arcane Presence needs a big buff too before anyone consider it useful compared to the other ones.
5. I know you are probably tired of hearing it but trust me, I'm as tired of begging for it. The shard needs a big damage buff when used on TABB. One way to limit the damage in PvE would be that it prones like it does now, but only damage X enemies. So you limit the damage targets but not the prone targets.
6. Chill strike needs a faster casting time, its useless in PvP because everybody can see it coming from a mile away. If you feel its to powerful with better castingtime, then nerf the damage a bit. That would mean more control for a Control Wizard but less damage.
7. Icy terrain needs a bigger radius. If you feel its to powerful with a bigger radius then limit the target cap.
8. Maelstrom of chaos - needs a complete rework. Its totally useless both in PvE and PvP. Its a wasted daily.
9. Ice storm is also really bad in both PvE and PvP. A Control Wizard is suppose to handle the adds but spreading them out all over the place is just counterproductive for the whole party in all situations.
10. Reapers touch should get a small buff, maybe 25 feat instead of 20.
11. Maybe make CW ignore 76/86% instead of current 66% of a target's Tenacity for the purposes of calculating control durations on a target? Many times I feel like both the GF and GWF has more control than a CW. GF has prone and thats the best form of control while CW only have stuns. And a GWF has longer stuns than a CW has on some encounters..
Control Wizards now ignore 66% of a target's Tenacity for the purposes of calculating control durations on a target.
ZengiaH@ejziponken
0
nezraalMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited October 2014
Here I wrote a CAGI DAMAGE CALCULATOR in my lunch time and compared results between mod4 and mod5 from power ranging from 5k to 10k.
(for our hard-working neverwinter developers to see results from number crunches! - excellent feedback)
This is for the community manager who is slaving me to do neverwinter social services. "(just kidding!)"
Developers in neverwinter need to make something like this, and spread it across tables for all damage, apply glyph, boosts etc and see what is really going on. If this took me 5 mins to write the calculator and this is what was active ALL of MOD4 where say a player will FULL PURIFIED BI SET was getting 30k+ critical damage and that's not good; it would save YOU developers a ton of effort if you took about 3-4 days to write a proper calculator, you can even use an excel spreadsheet for starters. This is an excellent feedback for what YOU developers need to do for module testing! I hope this small critic is seen constructively so developers can evaluate results and understand our complaints. I am encouraging module testing for your software.
To quote one of my favorite developers "Elegance is not a dispensable luxury but a factor that decides between success and failure" - Edsger Dijkstra
As for the GWF advocate I apologize for lashing at you earlier. I also have a list of recommendations on #551 of this thread.
Armoured melee fighter transmuted into a roadrunner? The very idea was bad in the first place. And it could not possibly be more remote from what an armoured melee fighter is DnD-wise.
Remove the run and bring back the DR.
+1, Yep! Destro need higher DR. ArP literally has no value in PvP for this tree.
If it's supposed to be a tank-DPS hybrid, then the "tank" part is lacking. It's not tankier than a destroyer and the nible runner feat is not enough.
Suggestion: add 25-50% DR to unstoppable from feat or allow increased determination gain through advanced feats.
Examples: instigator vengeance now gives 25-50% DR on unstoppable
Or:
Nible runner allows for 15-30-45-60-75% faster determination gain when receiving damage during sprint.
It also lacks CC (5s TD) in Destroyer feat. You know what's funny, I mentioned nimble runner to change the column also. I have an idea, again just an idea, nothing else.
Nimble runner: While NSF is active on atleast one target, GWF is immune to all CC effect, except prone.
Migthy Leap: Helps gain 3% HP on each target hit
Wicked Strike: Helps gain 1% HP on each target hit and also gains determination.
3% and 1% HP gain of your total HP without suppression.
It would be nice little AOE, off tank and unique in its own way. Balanced damage and balanced defense. Plus it would require a different kind of skill set for using wicked strike and quick little encounters and it would still feel like a beserker (I see it carrying a maul and doing wicked strike, make it look like a barbarian from role-play perspective).
Comments
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Well, no. Constricting is an area power and hindering applies weak roots instead of strong as far as I can see. Anyway I agree that Binding is completely superseded by Constrictive and should be reworked.
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Some extra feedback on single targets: it still lags behind too much compared to Archer even trying to use Aspect of the Serpent to maximum extent. Fighting Lostmauth, DPS goes down by approximately 30% compared to an Archer.
Tried to different setups:
- Constrictive, Careful Attack, Rain of Arrrows, Thorned Ward. Trying to keep two stacks of Serpent for ranged by applying Careful Attack and using Constrictive + Stance change to reapply Careful in order to trigger Master Trapper
- The usual complete rotation (Rain/Sword, Hindering Shot/Strike, Fox's Cunning/Shift)
Results were pretty much the same.
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
@tsokushin , droppin it down to 15% will make the build not viable at all. , as you stack alot of power you will lose other stats as defense/deflect, no one will chose it for that low damage/big cooldowns/ low defense.
why can't you see it, cause it's so easy
50% out of DEFENSE would solve it out !!!!
100% defense could work plus a buff to threat part.
intimidation is a proc of utility encounters with not that long cooldowns (13s and 16s).
As it is now in preview is continue to crit for 30-35k AOE and the tree offers free tankiness as well.
this should not happen.
To do a comparison, is like giving to trapper HR a 35k in fox cunning, or a 35k proc to bait and switch or a 35k proc to shield.
You forget that the capstone of Sentinel tree gives 80% damage reduction on Unstoppable. In any case, none are meant to take the tank tree and expect to do more damage than the damage trees. They should expect to hold threat and survive in PvE and have extensive survivability in PvP, not do more damage than any other tree.
And I have still seen ridiculous power levels from Great Weapon Fighters in full Purified Black Ice Sets. 9k and Above while still maintaining high defense. Tenacity isn't much of a problem for them due to unstoppable.
As for PvE, the Damage is indeed lower, but I have seen Great Weapon Fighters using Intimidation and topping Paingiver by margins of 250k to over 1 million. This is absolutely obscene in any sense of balance.
With my suggestion, threat is actually increased, while damage is decreased, which actually fits the Idea of Sentinel being a tank tree.
Calculations are based off pure numbers, not taking into account any damage bonus whatsoever. Two numbers produced, low end power and High end power. My proposed fixes are quoted to show them.
Live: 50% of Power dealt as damage. Double the threat on that Damage
9000 power
.5*9000= 4500 damage
Effective Threat: 9000
4000 Power
.5*4000=2000 Damage
Effective Threat: 4000
Test Changes
9000 Power
.35*9000=3150 Damage
Effective Threat: 6300
4000 Power
.35*4000=1400 Damage
Effective Threat: 2800
My Proposed Changes
9000 Power
.15*9000=1350
Effective Threat:9450
4000 Power
.15*4000=600
Effective Threat:4200
The inherent issue is that there can easily be huge % modifiers, some of which already lie in the Sentinel tree with the Combat Advantage bonus. So, the damage itself may seem low, but then again, 4500 damage seemed low with 9000 power and people are able to reach absurd levels of damage with just that much.
Sent tree for be for tanking and tanking only, with the first 2 tiers to augment the other Damage specializations.
1. CW and SW
2. HR and DC
3. GF
4. GWF
5. TR
Mop all the class looks like some people here are saving pearls for themselves, hypocrites
You've got to be kidding me.
i REPEAT AGAIN as i play GWF and know about it !!!
50% out of defense is the solution , DEFENSE instead of POWER , DEFENSE DEFENSE DEFENSE
if 50% is to much, then 35% out of DEFENSE . BUT DEFENSE WILL SOLVE THE INTIMIDATION and make SENTINEL PARAGON worth takin both pvp/pve
raydran cooldowns on cagi/daring shout are 14 sec (15 sec without rechargin speed) and 17 sec (18.9 sec without rechargin speed)
so yeah
And this solution requires much less coding and would actually ensure balance both in PvP and PvE. I also have a GWF and I know about the cooldowns, but from what I've seen capable in PvP and PvE, this is the best option. If you want damage, go Destroyer or Instigator (after mod 5). If you want tankyness and threat building, go Sentinel.
This solution would provide lasting effects and ensure balance throughout all scaling and when accounting for all damage bonuses.
Could you please do this? This will improve qol for aspect of pack greatly.
and this will make GWF sentinel be chosen by people for PVE that they want to tank and keep aggro.
lets take out the builds that you see now on live
12000 power and 2000 defense
and let's put up my theory
half of 2000 = 1000 damage multiplied with 70% damgeb(power) and crit severity
is it better than 12000 power = 6000 damage multiplied with 70% damageb(power) and crit
hell yeah, its far better
builds that we can see will be based around 4000 defense or 5000 defense at most in PVE , and this will provide tankines for sentinel , around 48% damage resistance, probably it will hit 50% , exactly like a GF , and wont deal much of a burst damage as it does right now.
5000 defense = 2500 damage , multiplied with 50% (8000 power) and crit severity.
so it wont outdamage GWF destroyer or instigator. and will be able to keep threat atleast.
maybe i am rash demanding shorten cooldowns, but at least make them more responsive
Daring shout animation is kinda broken sometimes
Cagi doesnt do damage sometimes.
not to say, when enemy is proned or after you are revived by soulforge/teammates and try using cagi/daringshout
you wont do any damage to enemies dont know the reason of it, probably animation and how responsive they are.
so i ask either leave as they are and shorten cooldowns by 2 seconds
either solve those animation problems
changes for destroyer , are increase his capstone to give 20% damage bonus by takin the capstone, and leave 10% damage bonus while unstopable + 1% damage bonus / 1 stack = 20% , resulting 50% damage bonus.
changes for instigator.
change Group assault with nimble runner
-allied oportunity : mighty leap should prone imo, giving a prone to the class and a new playstyle as well, if you've made us of daringshout/cagi on senti para and takedown/roar on destroy paragon, i find normal , to make use of mighty leap as well, giving something special, not only 30% damage increased, cause that wont solve it.
-Group assault should give like this 10% damage more on wicked strike and punishing charge
-nimble runner should be changed into a cap like Focused Destroyer and Master at arms , reason is that this would balance out the paragons even more.
so we have 4 classfeats that are universal both paths , and 2 class feats destroyer and weapon master are used, leaving 2 class feats bravery/steadfastdetermination without a paragon, so what i advice is to put Steadfast Determination on instigator path, resulting that Bravery will be universal too chose, and makin use of steadfast.
so if nimble runner is changed with SteadFast RUNNER or someth like that ,while slotting it will give 50% more determination gain while in combat like the tooltip says, only it will get a boost, and while using unstopable either have 10% deflect increased or give AC 3 points.
and the capstone should be like this
10% damage + 5% damage bonus per /1 stack , that means there are 4 stacks = 30% damage bonus total. and we take it logic
if sentinel has huge unstopable 40%-80% DR , and destroyer has 15-30% DR and has huge DPS , then instigator that has moderate defense abilities/moderate dps, it should give 25-50%DR for instigator. so capstone should give a total of 30% damage bonus and 25-50% DR.
and i bet you will be finished changing things for GWF for a long long time.
this is what will balance the GWF between paragons and it will be made enjoyable for everyone playing it. giving a fair chance for every type of player that is willing either to want to do huge dps, tank, or something between them.
like i said , you should sustain this, cause this won't make the GWF overpowered over other classes, and god no , it will not make him crippled.
You seem to be misunderstanding the concept of Balancing tankyness with Damage and the entire fact that GWF can pull incredible numbers (read: higher than ice knife DAILY) even with the 35% which is on the test.
For PvE tanking, Threat and mitigation are all that really matters when making a decent tank. My changes would accomplish that and even provide higher threat when using at wills and encounters other than Daring Shout and Come and Get it.
For PvP, Unstoppable provides all the tankiness necessary, therefore there is no reason to provide exceeding damage bonuses. Destroyer and Instigator should always win out in terms of damage. The entire point of going any higher than 2 tiers into Sentinel is to boost longevity and overall durability. There does not need to be any more damage. In any case, a PvP GWF can still resort to using his stuns in the forms of Frontline Surge, Flourish, Takedown, and Indomitable Battle Strike.
A full Sentinel GWF can still deal respectable damage with these abilities, but with Intimidation, the entire design is screwed. They *do not need more damage*, hence the reason for capping intimidation at 15% of power and massively increasing threat gain.
+ CAGI Calcultator
+ Liquid Tear Website
Are there any other thoughts on this suggestion?
so lets recap:
POWER on offense slots
HP on Defense slots
with lathandar neck i will add another 300 power + 300 defense.
so i will have 7800= 8000 power
with 4200 defense
half of defense = 2100 damage multiplied with 50% Damage bonus + crit severity etc.
well its already a big difference that 12k power = 6000 damage x 75% damage bonus.
it's 3x times lower, not to mention this damage can be blocked/dodged and missed.
as the name say it's Burst damage, either we like the encounter or not.
if 50% is to much, a 35% would be perfect. but yes, either way you look at it, this wont outdps destro or instigator.
and again
those numbers in PVE that you saw with 150k crit, thats because they were debuffed.
i hit with ibs as destro while debuffed over 200k crit.
AND REASON why it shouldn't be nerfed to the ground it offers a different way of playin the GWF
CAGI/daring shout are aoe and they dont stun/controll targets.
Takedown/FLS will go to to instigator/destroyer as they are more of a strikers somehow.
Shall we experiment?
My suggestion, 0.05 x 44k HP = 2200 damage. It's almost the same and also, it keeps the incentive of GWF keeping HP in their defense slot. I think both of you are almost in the right track.
+ CAGI Calcultator
+ Liquid Tear Website
listen, that would be troublesome for PVE players that wants to play as tanks on a gwf class.
@tsuokushin
changes for destroyer , are increase his capstone to give 20% damage bonus by takin the capstone, and leave 10% damage bonus while unstopable + 1% damage bonus / 1 stack = 20% , resulting 50% damage bonus.
changes for instigator.
change Group assault with nimble runner
-allied oportunity : mighty leap should prone imo, giving a prone to the class and a new playstyle as well, if you've made us of daringshout/cagi on senti para and takedown/roar on destroy paragon, i find normal , to make use of mighty leap as well, giving something special, not only 30% damage increased, cause that wont solve it.
-Group assault should give like this 10% damage more on wicked strike and punishing charge
-nimble runner should be changed into a cap like Focused Destroyer and Master at arms , reason is that this would balance out the paragons even more.
so we have 4 classfeats that are universal both paths , and 2 class feats destroyer and weapon master are used, leaving 2 class feats bravery/steadfastdetermination without a paragon, so what i advice is to put Steadfast Determination on instigator path, resulting that Bravery will be universal too chose, and makin use of steadfast.
so if nimble runner is changed with SteadFast RUNNER or someth like that ,while slotting it will give 50% more determination gain while in combat like the tooltip says, only it will get a boost, and while using unstopable either have 10% deflect increased or give AC 3 points.
and the capstone should be like this
10% damage + 5% damage bonus per /1 stack , that means there are 4 stacks = 30% damage bonus total. and we take it logic
if sentinel has huge unstopable 40%-80% DR , and destroyer has 15-30% DR and has huge DPS , then instigator that has moderate defense abilities/moderate dps, it should give 25-50%DR for instigator. so capstone should give a total of 30% damage bonus and 25-50% DR.
This thread is not for debating other people's feedback, nor is it to discuss one's merits as a player. Period. It is to bring up to the devs YOUR experience on the preview server with the new balance changes.
Going forward, any post which does not meet this criteria will be removed without notice.
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
Feedback: Control Wizard Storm Spell and Assailant Changes
The changes on Storm Spell (Moving to 30% proc, from 20%, **but** only on crits) and Assailant (To be activated only on Encounters) have a general impact on damage reduction close to 15% overall.
Details on this post already listed here :
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?773431-Official-Feedback-Thread-Other-Balance-Changes&p=9327641&viewfull=1#post9327641
My Overall feeling : Moving the cursor of the CWs Skills to more rewarding challenges (More Active vs Less Passive) is good BUT should be compensated by getting the same overall damage (eg: Rewarding the More Active Skills), and this is where the Mod5 proposed changes need some adjustments.
Thanks to Devs !
@lewstelamon01 okay,
- STOP USING POTS in PVP (THE DIFFERENCE ON STACKED POTS ARE EYE POPPING!)
- NERF GLYPH in PVP
- BETTER MATCH MAKING FOR PVP
- DIFFERENT LADDER FOR PREMADE VS NON PREMADE, NON-PREMADE TAKE "ONLY 1" PARTNER
- MORE PENALTY FOR KILLED PLAYERS, BETTER SURVIVAL SKILLS = MORE MERIT
- INSTIGATOR GWF IS NOT PVP VIABLE, RECOMMEND ADDING AC IN SOME FEAT!
- DESTROYER TREE IS HIT & RUN PUNCH BAG, NEED MORE DEFENSE STATS IN FEAT!
- MORE PVP TYPES THAT DOES NOT INVOLVE CAPTURE THE FLAG, TEAM WITH 100 KILL WINS IN A NEW MAP
- 3s STUN FEEL LIKE 0.9s - 1.5s in PVP, GIVE GWF AT-LEAST ONE PRONE LIKE BULL CHARGE
- SHORTER ANIMATION TIME AND MORE RANGE ON IBS, MAKE IT LIKE RS
- MORE CD IN DS FOR GWF , 25 from 20 an 2s more cd, compensation for 35% nerf
- BUG! AFTER PAGE 30, LADDER RANK FALLS EVEN IF I WIN GAMES!
- DR% in PVP is worth "0%" because everyone has RI% at 40+ (or most people in end game do), RECOMMENDED 75% of Current RI% from ARP so having "defense" carries meaning
- INCREASE VALUE OF TENACITY SO IT TACKLES HIGHER % OF CRITICAL SEVERITY, RECOMMEND 2.5%
(40% DR CAN GET 30k CRITICAL DAMAGE FROM DIFFERENT CLASSES! BALANCED ???)
Regularly running 20k+ GS premade each day and based on experience, the first two and last point need serious consideration! BEST FEEDBACK, MOST POINTS APPLIES FOR ALL CLASSES FOR A BALANCED PVP!
Thank you.
+ CAGI Calcultator
+ Liquid Tear Website
Armoured melee fighter transmuted into a roadrunner? The very idea was bad in the first place. And it could not possibly be more remote from what an armoured melee fighter is DnD-wise.
Remove the run and bring back the DR.
Tired of Dailies/Tyranny of Dailies/Timers of Doom/Tricked Or Duped/Tremendously Obnoxious Dailies/Try Otherwise, Devs
If it's supposed to be a tank-DPS hybrid, then the "tank" part is lacking. It's not tankier than a destroyer and the nible runner feat is not enough.
Suggestion: add 25-50% DR to unstoppable from feat or allow increased determination gain through advanced feats.
Examples: instigator vengeance now gives 25-50% DR on unstoppable
Or:
Nible runner allows for 15-30-45-60-75% faster determination gain when receiving damage during sprint.
Please change the combat advantage to a mark. Weapon master has a hard time marking enemies so this should apply a mark instead of giving combat advantage only. The duration could also be 10-12 seconds.
1. Magic Missiles needs a small buff regarding the casting time. As it is now, It cannot compete with Ray of frost and that is forcing people to use one at-will. I've been running over 200 PvP matches since Module 4 and I don't think I've seen a single CW using MM on a higher level.
Ray of frost gives both control, chillstacks and proccs stormspell = more control and damage than Magic missiles.
2. Fury, Nexus and Growth needs the same chance to procc, as it is now the best one proccs very little and the most useless one proccs the most. That is kinda false advertising when you read the tooltip.
3. Chilling Presence needs a damage buff. Rank 3 should give 6% damage instead of 3%. OR remove the need of Chilling Presence in the Renegade feat, Chilling advantage.
4. Arcane Presence needs a big buff too before anyone consider it useful compared to the other ones.
5. I know you are probably tired of hearing it but trust me, I'm as tired of begging for it. The shard needs a big damage buff when used on TABB. One way to limit the damage in PvE would be that it prones like it does now, but only damage X enemies. So you limit the damage targets but not the prone targets.
6. Chill strike needs a faster casting time, its useless in PvP because everybody can see it coming from a mile away. If you feel its to powerful with better castingtime, then nerf the damage a bit. That would mean more control for a Control Wizard but less damage.
7. Icy terrain needs a bigger radius. If you feel its to powerful with a bigger radius then limit the target cap.
8. Maelstrom of chaos - needs a complete rework. Its totally useless both in PvE and PvP. Its a wasted daily.
9. Ice storm is also really bad in both PvE and PvP. A Control Wizard is suppose to handle the adds but spreading them out all over the place is just counterproductive for the whole party in all situations.
10. Reapers touch should get a small buff, maybe 25 feat instead of 20.
11. Maybe make CW ignore 76/86% instead of current 66% of a target's Tenacity for the purposes of calculating control durations on a target? Many times I feel like both the GF and GWF has more control than a CW. GF has prone and thats the best form of control while CW only have stuns. And a GWF has longer stuns than a CW has on some encounters..
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?783711-GWF-Intimidation-Calculator-by-NezRaaL
(for our hard-working neverwinter developers to see results from number crunches! - excellent feedback)
This is for the community manager who is slaving me to do neverwinter social services.
Developers in neverwinter need to make something like this, and spread it across tables for all damage, apply glyph, boosts etc and see what is really going on. If this took me 5 mins to write the calculator and this is what was active ALL of MOD4 where say a player will FULL PURIFIED BI SET was getting 30k+ critical damage and that's not good; it would save YOU developers a ton of effort if you took about 3-4 days to write a proper calculator, you can even use an excel spreadsheet for starters. This is an excellent feedback for what YOU developers need to do for module testing! I hope this small critic is seen constructively so developers can evaluate results and understand our complaints. I am encouraging module testing for your software.
To quote one of my favorite developers "Elegance is not a dispensable luxury but a factor that decides between success and failure" - Edsger Dijkstra
As for the GWF advocate I apologize for lashing at you earlier. I also have a list of recommendations on #551 of this thread.
I hope this helps!
+ CAGI Calcultator
+ Liquid Tear Website
+1, Yep! Destro need higher DR. ArP literally has no value in PvP for this tree.
It also lacks CC (5s TD) in Destroyer feat. You know what's funny, I mentioned nimble runner to change the column also. I have an idea, again just an idea, nothing else.
Nimble runner: While NSF is active on atleast one target, GWF is immune to all CC effect, except prone.
Migthy Leap: Helps gain 3% HP on each target hit
Wicked Strike: Helps gain 1% HP on each target hit and also gains determination.
3% and 1% HP gain of your total HP without suppression.
It would be nice little AOE, off tank and unique in its own way. Balanced damage and balanced defense. Plus it would require a different kind of skill set for using wicked strike and quick little encounters and it would still feel like a beserker (I see it carrying a maul and doing wicked strike, make it look like a barbarian from role-play perspective).
+ CAGI Calcultator
+ Liquid Tear Website