The problem is that this build was never viable to begin with.
To sum this up, WK doesn't have the necessary damage to pull this off, nor the survivability, nor the tools to make Permastealth anything less than ****ing difficult to maintain.
I'm gonna go ahead and assume that this build was designed for Range because of DH and an enchantment. In which case, it sounds nice in theory and it's fun as hell to level. However, once you hit 50 and see the ridiculous disparity between the classes, and even between TR specs, you see how unviable WK really is. Your ranged damage is subpar. If you're going against anything tanky, which is probably 90% of the opposing team, your role is diminished to "Irritating *******". At that point, no one cares if you're trying to ninja cap a point for two reasons:
1) It's 4v5 and they're steamrolling your team
2) It's 4v5 and they're camping your home point.
Just given the amount of tools other classes have to expose you, this isn't a point camper. It's point annoyance.
The other reason this build doesn't work is because Permastealth on a WK is just...horrible. I've spent way too much money and way too much time rerolling skills, modifying enchants, and rerolling the toon entirely to get the build working. Pumping Recovery and Int helps a lot but there's 3 glaring problems with Permastealth WK:
1) No Gloaming Cut
2) No ITC
3) Complete reliance on dodge
I guess it's no wonder no one bothered to point out the Dodge Feat - It only restores a percentage of your remaining Stealth, not your max stealth. If you're at 90% Stealth and Dodge, you're practically full. If you're about to run out of stealth and dodge, you didn't even gain .5 seconds from that.
Honestly, I ****ing love the idea of WK but changes in pvp meta along with constant nerfs to the WK kit left it dead for PvP.
On the other hand, I have ridiculous success with a Permastealth WK in PvE. You don't have to worry about much when you're soloing bosses from range.
Well, Pandora used her build and got to page 2 of the leader board, so I guess it is viable for something.
Considering these types wbo utter 'viability' in everything are usually the mass produced copycat types with egos so big that they treat anything outside of their fraternity of less than 1% as nonexistant , I wouldn't worry about it too much.
Many of those guys themselves are not much 'viable' against other, even better players. No matter what they play. They ridicule others for bjilds that "only works against PuGs but really, try asking them if their 'viable' builds work against snow? Keltz0r? dinter? sicarius? Any player of any class that is considerd one of the, if not THE, best.
same results. Of course its the same. Thats how pvp is.
so whether its against pugs or not has no meaning. If it does the job for you then its viable.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Armor : Silvery Enchantment
Main Hand : Silvery Enchantment
Off Hand : Radiant
Neck, Rings(x2), and Belt : Silvery Enchantment
Shirt: Dark enchantment
Pants: Silvery Enchantment
I meant to ask - those are all Rank 10, I suppose?
I got the Blood Crystal Raven Skull to Rank 60, but did not get enough Glory to get another to upgrade until 6 minutes after Double Refining finished.
I just bought the Profound Scoundrel Boots (using Battlefield Skulker at the moment, +25% Stealth but no Tenacity).
Do you think the Battelscarred versions of your blue gear would work just as well? They have less recovery and deflection (for example) but also have Tenacity.
I still cannot be permanently stealthed in PvP, but in PvE I am doing fine. Except I use:
Well, Pandora used her build and got to page 2 of the leader board, so I guess it is viable for something.
This lol. I've got nothing to prove, and I'm not here to impress any potion guzzlers.
"Viable" can be interpreted in many ways, this works for me and is fun, and got me far in LB, so it's viable for ME. Don't care what anyone else thinks
Considering these types wbo utter 'viability' in everything are usually the mass produced copycat types with egos so big that they treat anything outside of their fraternity of less than 1% as nonexistant , I wouldn't worry about it too much.
Many of those guys themselves are not much 'viable' against other, even better players. No matter what they play. They ridicule others for bjilds that "only works against PuGs but really, try asking them if their 'viable' builds work against snow? Keltz0r? dinter? sicarius? Any player of any class that is considerd one of the, if not THE, best.
same results. Of course its the same. Thats how pvp is.
so whether its against pugs or not has no meaning. If it does the job for you then its viable.
I meant to ask - those are all Rank 10, I suppose?
I got the Blood Crystal Raven Skull to Rank 60, but did not get enough Glory to get another to upgrade until 6 minutes after Double Refining finished.
I just bought the Profound Scoundrel Boots (using Battlefield Skulker at the moment, +25% Stealth but no Tenacity).
Do you think the Battelscarred versions of your blue gear would work just as well? They have less recovery and deflection (for example) but also have Tenacity.
I still cannot be permanently stealthed in PvP, but in PvE I am doing fine. Except I use:
As for battlescared... if you have recovery elsewhere then okay, if not, no.
Lashing Blade ? lol. Sorry but Lashing is pathetic now and crits for 13K at most for me in PVP. Not worth using anymore, and never was since module 2.
Don't use my build in PVE/Skirmishes/Dungeons, the damage is bad and you don't need to be perma-stealth against brainless mobs.
Run Dazing Strike/Blitz/Lashing Blade in Skirmishes.
OK, thanks for the advice. I am loving this build, by the way.
My Silveries are Rank 7 and 8. I also have Rank 7 Recovery runes and blue Gear on my Ioun Stone for PvE. This TR is my fourth "Main" character, so I am limited in resources I can spare, but once I have the full set of Profound Scoundrel, I should be well set up.
I was using the build in dungeons etc for practice, as even brainless mobs are better than Training Dummies. Although, I have the benefit of the Ioun Stone and other companions then.
I am not sure if I put any ranks into Blitz, but I usually find if it works in PvP, it works in solo PvE.
And you are right that Lashing Blade does not do much in PvP - unless they are already near death. As long as they don't have a Soulforged, I can finish them off and go into Stealth again. So I use it sparingly. On my Virtuous/Righteous DC, Daunting Light can crit for as much as 30,000. That is the highest I have seen, though. Must be the only time a DC does the most damage with a single Power!
I probably need more ArPen, as against GFs I do something like 345 damage with a Disheartening Strike crit, rather than >1000 against a PvE monster.
And I do tend to play in the wee, small hours against PuGs from Eastern Europe, as they are never Uber-Geared like the American kids.
OK, thanks for the advice. I am loving this build, by the way.
My Silveries are Rank 7 and 8. I also have Rank 7 Recovery runes and blue Gear on my Ioun Stone for PvE. This TR is my fourth "Main" character, so I am limited in resources I can spare, but once I have the full set of Profound Scoundrel, I should be well set up.
I was using the build in dungeons etc for practice, as even brainless mobs are better than Training Dummies. Although, I have the benefit of the Ioun Stone and other companions then.
I am not sure if I put any ranks into Blitz, but I usually find if it works in PvP, it works in solo PvE.
And you are right that Lashing Blade does not do much in PvP - unless they are already near death. As long as they don't have a Soulforged, I can finish them off and go into Stealth again. So I use it sparingly. On my Virtuous/Righteous DC, Daunting Light can crit for as much as 30,000. That is the highest I have seen, though. Must be the only time a DC does the most damage with a single Power!
I probably need more ArPen, as against GFs I do something like 345 damage with a Disheartening Strike crit, rather than >1000 against a PvE monster.
And I do tend to play in the wee, small hours against PuGs from Eastern Europe, as they are never Uber-Geared like the American kids.
Every little helps!
Lashing Blade is subpar now like I told you, I hope they bring it back to its module 1 fame (Slightly toned down..)
But yeah you said it yourself, stack some more armorpen. Because my disheartening does 1-1.5K per tick against tankies at least.
I completely forgot this video lol. Here's a video recorded a week ago of me messing around with the worst paragon power of all classes combined (aka Vengeance's Pursuit)
What are those blue flashes hitting you, as I have been seeing those recently?
Also, why do you jump up and down so much, even when stealthed? A lot of people do that in PvP, but it does nothing to stop most ranged attacks as they auto-lock. It can spoil a ground-based attack, like Daunting Light, but usually more so if you move to the side, or back and forward.
Maybe in Open Beta, jumping about stopped people targeting you at distance? But that is certainly not true now. At least, not with my DC ranged attacks.
What are those blue flashes hitting you, as I have been seeing those recently?
Guardian Fighter's Knight's Valor. If you notice it's literally eating my stealth for breakfast lol. Thing is kinda broken
Also, why do you jump up and down so much, even when stealthed? A lot of people do that in PvP, but it does nothing to stop most ranged attacks as they auto-lock. It can spoil a ground-based attack, like Daunting Light, but usually more so if you move to the side, or back and forward.
Maybe in Open Beta, jumping about stopped people targeting you at distance? But that is certainly not true now. At least, not with my DC ranged attacks.
Cheers!
The jumping up-and-down is just an habit lol ;D I'm an hyper person. I like moving around.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
I tried really hard to make it work in PvE for a mixed range and melee character, but even solo with no summoned companion to get in the way, it would constantly try to target self, and in a dungeon or a heroic encounter... FORGET IT. I'm running Disheartening, DF, SS, Dazing, Blitz, Whirlwind, and Hateful Knives on a WK Executioner (a lot like Setherio's, which thread recently got bumped up), and I love this spec. I can solo the 3-5 player IWD heroics for as long as it takes for help to arrive. I can't complete one solo because of the timer, but it's hard to feel bad about that.
The all-ranged WK Sab can solo the same heroics just as easily but has less burst capacity so she takes longer to get as far with them.
Hate to say it, but drow is one of the worst race's (sadly, because I think they are cool). Halfling is almost always the best option for PvP, because you get extra CC resist (stuns/freezes/roots resisted more & shorter duration... +3% deflect, & +2 con/dex at character creation. The only instance where human is better than halfling, is when you are 100% perma WK. When you are invis 100% of the time, the defensive abilities of the halfling are largely wasted. As a human you grab 3 extra heroic feat points, which you can put in "Scoundral Training" for an extra 9% damage from "Disheartening Strike" and "Clouds of steel."
x_X
I've chosen Drow cause i think drow combines with TR =x
I would max out int & con on character creation, and shoot for about 26% recharge speed to give yourself some wiggle room. This way you can still take some damage while stealthed and maintain perma. You can always replace the silvery's with crit or power enchants if you think the extra recharge speed is overkill.
I just re-rolled my race and spec to try out rustlords reflect build, but personally I hate it for PvP (PvE is awesome... I can tank!); anyway, I will probably be going back to my human WK build in another day or two. I'll be speccing exactly as I just described above. Shoot for 26% recharge, then stack power/crit.
I don't know what choose when i re-roll my stats, i saw in other perma guide int & con is the best, but Pandora says "Does not need high INT", so i'm lost hahahahah
i wanted try rustlord reflect build but i don't have a lot of time for search for gloves in icewind dale x_X anyway i have 40k glory, i'm save for buy tier 3 pvp
I completely forgot this video lol. Here's a video recorded a week ago of me messing around with the worst paragon power of all classes combined (aka Vengeance's Pursuit)
I think I'm gonna make short videos trying every single encounter (as a 3rd) along with Bait and Switch and Shadow Strike, before perma gets fixed lol.
The problem is that this build was never viable to begin with.
I am an absolute TR N@@b and I can confirm that there is nothing wrong with the build at all. The only problem I have is my lack of skill and timing with it. But it IS a lot of fun. And, for me, that is what the game is about. Even PvP.
I have a lot of experience in PvP, both as an AC Healer and a DO dps/tank. My Dragonborn Whisperknife Saboteur can stay alive a lot longer as she cannot be seen! Even though her GS is about 4k lower and I am still learning how to do it.
Her damage is sub-par, but that is because she does not have all the gear yet. She has a 25% Stealth Skulker's armour set from the AH with no Tenacity and Mulhorand items from boxes I opened months ago. And she has only just started getting the Dread Ring and Sharandar boons.
In PvP, I can see the difference in skill in the enemy team as well - some of them know how to counter a Perma-Stealth, a lot of them have no idea. So I am still learning how to counter their counters.
My main problem is replenishing my Stealth meter before it runs out, and that is all to do with my own inexperience and poor timing. Or hitting the wrong key!
Sometimes, the current animation (probably Disheartening Strike) completes before Bait and Switch kicks in, so I become visible again. That is when she is terribly vulnerable. I just need to learn the muscle memory for when to activate it. Better to do it 0.5 seconds too soon than 0.5 seconds too late. And I have to remember not to stand my ground and run away; I am role-playing a sneaky, sabotaging assassin, not a Noble War Priest, after all.
And I have to stop trying to heal my team! LOL!
The build has vulnerabilities, just like the High INT, Master Infiltrator Executioner build. But that does not make it "not viable".
It works, and it is FUN.
So it is viable for me. I would not spend the time getting the Glory and Seals for the Profound armour otherwise, let alone grinding Sharandar and Dread Ring.
I don't know what choose when i re-roll my stats, i saw in other perma guide int & con is the best, but Pandora says "Does not need high INT", so i'm lost hahahahah
She means you do not need INT of 20 or 21. 14 or 15 will do, as long as you have all the Recovery gear, Silvery enchants, Feats and Boons she recommends. And the Artifact and Profound Scoundrel set.
What I do is I have the possible stat rolls from the Wiki in a spreadsheet, and I decide what rolls I want and see what they will be at level 60 for each race and class. You could do this for your Drow racial bonuses. Drow traditionally make good Thieves and Priestesses in AD&D. And one famous Ranger.
This is purely Pandora's way of playing a build she was probably the first to come up with, and she has posted it so others can enjoy it as well. Kudos to Pandora!
Be careful what you read - there is another Guide I used on my other Halfling TR for a HIGH INT, Master Infiltrator Executioner build. It relies much more on High INT as the Feats are for damage rather than Stealth extension. But I have completely the wrong armour with no Stealth bonus, and used the Saboteur feats instead of Executioner feats - so I will be re-specing her when I have the AD to get the 300 Zen.
Basically, I screwed it up by following advice from two completely different builds before I really understood what either of them were really about.
Pandora's build is a low-to-mid INT, Whisperknife Saboteur - the exact opposite kind of Perma-TR.
I race re-rolled my first Halfling into a Dragonborn and choose the rolls 14, 12, 15, 12, 11 and 13.
I put the Racial Bonus +2 points into CON and INT.
But with a race re-roll, you CAN change the initial rolls and level 1 Racial bonus points, but you cannot reassign where you put the bonus points on level-up.
For a Dragonborn, I would have probably gone for STR rather than CHA, so I would have more base Damage and Stamina Regeneration, but less Deflect and Combat Advantage bonus.
I could also have put the +2 points on character creation in DEX and CON, rather than INT and CON:
So I would have got 2% less Recharge from INT and +2% Critical Strike chance and +1% Deflect from DEX.
This would have worked just as well, possibly better, as Pandora has only INT 15. But I figured the INT 17 would help me out until I got the better gear. And maybe I could work in an Azure enchant later on, or use the Blue gear I have that has Crit 250, Recovery 125, instead of the 243/250 Recovery Blues...
People like Pandora have been doing this for years and probably spent a lot of time testing on the Preview Shard, so their advice is based on more than number crunching. They have actually done it and got to page 2 of the Leaderboard, along with GWFs and CWs.
I think I'm gonna make short videos trying every single encounter (as a 3rd) along with Bait and Switch and Shadow Strike, before perma gets fixed lol.
I'll really enjoy watching those!
I saw a video using Wicked Reminder - the uploader said it was vastly overlooked and that's why it hasn't been nerfed yet. It basically trashes the enemy's armour, so allowing much higher damage.
Videos up! Yes I'm aware I wasn't fighting on points/nodes but it was on purpose. Don't worry though, my team won once I was done with the encounter footage and decided to fully cap their base. As said above, I'm not fully 100% invisible like I usually am so I'm taking way more damage :P
Videos up! Yes I'm aware I wasn't fighting on points/nodes but it was on purpose. Don't worry though, my team won once I was done with the encounter footage and decided to fully cap their base. As said above, I'm not fully 100% invisible like I usually am so I'm taking way more damage :P
Pandora u rock!
Video by video i'm learn more for how to play perma-stealth =D
How do u do in pve? I have made my permstealth WK TR 2 months ago and while it rocks in pvp i find it absolutely in any dungeon because of lack of ITC. In dungeons like karrundax you actually dodge a lot more than u have a chance to dps and without that ITC deflect all u can do is spam ur dagger from a distance which in the end makes u do like 10x less dmg than any other dps class.
How do u do in pve? I have made my permstealth WK TR 2 months ago and while it rocks in pvp i find it absolutely in any dungeon because of lack of ITC. In dungeons like karrundax you actually dodge a lot more than u have a chance to dps and without that ITC deflect all u can do is spam ur dagger from a distance which in the end makes u do like 10x less dmg than any other dps class.
This is not a PVE build. Damage is too low and you don't need the permastealth.
Having said that, it works fine for dailies and lairs. And being perma is great for Ghost Stories from the ToD campaign.
This is not a PVE build. Damage is too low and you don't need the permastealth.
Having said that, it works fine for dailies and lairs. And being perma is great for Ghost Stories from the ToD campaign.
I have an EXECUTIONER permastealth tr, which is supposed to be decent in PVE (on paper and as far as tr pve goes anyway) and what i mean is if u ever do dungeons how do u manage
How do u do in pve? I have made my permstealth WK TR 2 months ago and while it rocks in pvp i find it absolutely in any dungeon because of lack of ITC. In dungeons like karrundax you actually dodge a lot more than u have a chance to dps and without that ITC deflect all u can do is spam ur dagger from a distance which in the end makes u do like 10x less dmg than any other dps class.
This is not a PVE build. If you want a PVE build I will be pleased to help you.
You do not need my 100% Invisible build in PVE. Just run with the standard PVE TR powers, and of course, the Executionner feat tree.
My main problem is replenishing my Stealth meter before it runs out, and that is all to do with my own inexperience and poor timing. Or hitting the wrong key!
Sometimes, the current animation (probably Disheartening Strike) completes before Bait and Switch kicks in, so I become visible again. That is when she is terribly vulnerable. I just need to learn the muscle memory for when to activate it. Better to do it 0.5 seconds too soon than 0.5 seconds too late.
Yes, there is some lag there. I usually run at 100-200ms of latency & can't try to cut that stealth meter too close before BnS or I'll usually lose stealth
It works, and it is FUN.
~
This is most important. all theory-crafting is pointless if you have more fun doing it your own way. Besides, imo most people vastly exaggerate the impact of certain specs
Comments
To sum this up, WK doesn't have the necessary damage to pull this off, nor the survivability, nor the tools to make Permastealth anything less than ****ing difficult to maintain.
I'm gonna go ahead and assume that this build was designed for Range because of DH and an enchantment. In which case, it sounds nice in theory and it's fun as hell to level. However, once you hit 50 and see the ridiculous disparity between the classes, and even between TR specs, you see how unviable WK really is. Your ranged damage is subpar. If you're going against anything tanky, which is probably 90% of the opposing team, your role is diminished to "Irritating *******". At that point, no one cares if you're trying to ninja cap a point for two reasons:
1) It's 4v5 and they're steamrolling your team
2) It's 4v5 and they're camping your home point.
Just given the amount of tools other classes have to expose you, this isn't a point camper. It's point annoyance.
The other reason this build doesn't work is because Permastealth on a WK is just...horrible. I've spent way too much money and way too much time rerolling skills, modifying enchants, and rerolling the toon entirely to get the build working. Pumping Recovery and Int helps a lot but there's 3 glaring problems with Permastealth WK:
1) No Gloaming Cut
2) No ITC
3) Complete reliance on dodge
I guess it's no wonder no one bothered to point out the Dodge Feat - It only restores a percentage of your remaining Stealth, not your max stealth. If you're at 90% Stealth and Dodge, you're practically full. If you're about to run out of stealth and dodge, you didn't even gain .5 seconds from that.
Honestly, I ****ing love the idea of WK but changes in pvp meta along with constant nerfs to the WK kit left it dead for PvP.
On the other hand, I have ridiculous success with a Permastealth WK in PvE. You don't have to worry about much when you're soloing bosses from range.
Considering these types wbo utter 'viability' in everything are usually the mass produced copycat types with egos so big that they treat anything outside of their fraternity of less than 1% as nonexistant , I wouldn't worry about it too much.
Many of those guys themselves are not much 'viable' against other, even better players. No matter what they play. They ridicule others for bjilds that "only works against PuGs but really, try asking them if their 'viable' builds work against snow? Keltz0r? dinter? sicarius? Any player of any class that is considerd one of the, if not THE, best.
same results. Of course its the same. Thats how pvp is.
so whether its against pugs or not has no meaning. If it does the job for you then its viable.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
I meant to ask - those are all Rank 10, I suppose?
I got the Blood Crystal Raven Skull to Rank 60, but did not get enough Glory to get another to upgrade until 6 minutes after Double Refining finished.
I just bought the Profound Scoundrel Boots (using Battlefield Skulker at the moment, +25% Stealth but no Tenacity).
Do you think the Battelscarred versions of your blue gear would work just as well? They have less recovery and deflection (for example) but also have Tenacity.
I still cannot be permanently stealthed in PvP, but in PvE I am doing fine. Except I use:
Stealth > At-Wills > Bait and Switch > At-Wills > Lashing Blade (guaranteed crit) > Shadow Strike > Stealth
That works well in the Siege skirmish event and dungeons. Not so much in PvP as the targets are a little more intelligent, and MUCH more dangerous!
Cheers!
This lol. I've got nothing to prove, and I'm not here to impress any potion guzzlers.
"Viable" can be interpreted in many ways, this works for me and is fun, and got me far in LB, so it's viable for ME. Don't care what anyone else thinks
^^^^^ this again, 100% spot on.
No, these are rank 7's.
As for battlescared... if you have recovery elsewhere then okay, if not, no.
Lashing Blade ? lol. Sorry but Lashing is pathetic now and crits for 13K at most for me in PVP. Not worth using anymore, and never was since module 2.
Don't use my build in PVE/Skirmishes/Dungeons, the damage is bad and you don't need to be perma-stealth against brainless mobs.
Run Dazing Strike/Blitz/Lashing Blade in Skirmishes.
OK, thanks for the advice. I am loving this build, by the way.
My Silveries are Rank 7 and 8. I also have Rank 7 Recovery runes and blue Gear on my Ioun Stone for PvE. This TR is my fourth "Main" character, so I am limited in resources I can spare, but once I have the full set of Profound Scoundrel, I should be well set up.
I was using the build in dungeons etc for practice, as even brainless mobs are better than Training Dummies. Although, I have the benefit of the Ioun Stone and other companions then.
I am not sure if I put any ranks into Blitz, but I usually find if it works in PvP, it works in solo PvE.
And you are right that Lashing Blade does not do much in PvP - unless they are already near death. As long as they don't have a Soulforged, I can finish them off and go into Stealth again. So I use it sparingly. On my Virtuous/Righteous DC, Daunting Light can crit for as much as 30,000. That is the highest I have seen, though. Must be the only time a DC does the most damage with a single Power!
I probably need more ArPen, as against GFs I do something like 345 damage with a Disheartening Strike crit, rather than >1000 against a PvE monster.
And I do tend to play in the wee, small hours against PuGs from Eastern Europe, as they are never Uber-Geared like the American kids.
Every little helps!
Lashing Blade is subpar now like I told you, I hope they bring it back to its module 1 fame (Slightly toned down..)
But yeah you said it yourself, stack some more armorpen. Because my disheartening does 1-1.5K per tick against tankies at least.
I completely forgot this video lol. Here's a video recorded a week ago of me messing around with the worst paragon power of all classes combined (aka Vengeance's Pursuit)
Enjoy ! :P
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HUjo6rVpGc&feature=youtu.be
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Hehehe
Gotta love VP and its uselessness.
Nice video!
And your damage is WAY higher than mine atm.
What are those blue flashes hitting you, as I have been seeing those recently?
Also, why do you jump up and down so much, even when stealthed? A lot of people do that in PvP, but it does nothing to stop most ranged attacks as they auto-lock. It can spoil a ground-based attack, like Daunting Light, but usually more so if you move to the side, or back and forward.
Maybe in Open Beta, jumping about stopped people targeting you at distance? But that is certainly not true now. At least, not with my DC ranged attacks.
Cheers!
Thanks~
Possibly because I use Vorpal.
Guardian Fighter's Knight's Valor. If you notice it's literally eating my stealth for breakfast lol. Thing is kinda broken
The jumping up-and-down is just an habit lol ;D I'm an hyper person. I like moving around.
I tried really hard to make it work in PvE for a mixed range and melee character, but even solo with no summoned companion to get in the way, it would constantly try to target self, and in a dungeon or a heroic encounter... FORGET IT. I'm running Disheartening, DF, SS, Dazing, Blitz, Whirlwind, and Hateful Knives on a WK Executioner (a lot like Setherio's, which thread recently got bumped up), and I love this spec. I can solo the 3-5 player IWD heroics for as long as it takes for help to arrive. I can't complete one solo because of the timer, but it's hard to feel bad about that.
The all-ranged WK Sab can solo the same heroics just as easily but has less burst capacity so she takes longer to get as far with them.
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x_X
I've chosen Drow cause i think drow combines with TR =x
Now i got it! Thanks for explain for me
I don't know what choose when i re-roll my stats, i saw in other perma guide int & con is the best, but Pandora says "Does not need high INT", so i'm lost hahahahah
i wanted try rustlord reflect build but i don't have a lot of time for search for gloves in icewind dale x_X anyway i have 40k glory, i'm save for buy tier 3 pvp
Videos incoming.
I am an absolute TR N@@b and I can confirm that there is nothing wrong with the build at all. The only problem I have is my lack of skill and timing with it. But it IS a lot of fun. And, for me, that is what the game is about. Even PvP.
I have a lot of experience in PvP, both as an AC Healer and a DO dps/tank. My Dragonborn Whisperknife Saboteur can stay alive a lot longer as she cannot be seen! Even though her GS is about 4k lower and I am still learning how to do it.
Her damage is sub-par, but that is because she does not have all the gear yet. She has a 25% Stealth Skulker's armour set from the AH with no Tenacity and Mulhorand items from boxes I opened months ago. And she has only just started getting the Dread Ring and Sharandar boons.
In PvP, I can see the difference in skill in the enemy team as well - some of them know how to counter a Perma-Stealth, a lot of them have no idea. So I am still learning how to counter their counters.
My main problem is replenishing my Stealth meter before it runs out, and that is all to do with my own inexperience and poor timing. Or hitting the wrong key!
Sometimes, the current animation (probably Disheartening Strike) completes before Bait and Switch kicks in, so I become visible again. That is when she is terribly vulnerable. I just need to learn the muscle memory for when to activate it. Better to do it 0.5 seconds too soon than 0.5 seconds too late. And I have to remember not to stand my ground and run away; I am role-playing a sneaky, sabotaging assassin, not a Noble War Priest, after all.
And I have to stop trying to heal my team! LOL!
The build has vulnerabilities, just like the High INT, Master Infiltrator Executioner build. But that does not make it "not viable".
It works, and it is FUN.
So it is viable for me. I would not spend the time getting the Glory and Seals for the Profound armour otherwise, let alone grinding Sharandar and Dread Ring.
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She means you do not need INT of 20 or 21. 14 or 15 will do, as long as you have all the Recovery gear, Silvery enchants, Feats and Boons she recommends. And the Artifact and Profound Scoundrel set.
What I do is I have the possible stat rolls from the Wiki in a spreadsheet, and I decide what rolls I want and see what they will be at level 60 for each race and class. You could do this for your Drow racial bonuses. Drow traditionally make good Thieves and Priestesses in AD&D. And one famous Ranger.
This is purely Pandora's way of playing a build she was probably the first to come up with, and she has posted it so others can enjoy it as well. Kudos to Pandora!
Be careful what you read - there is another Guide I used on my other Halfling TR for a HIGH INT, Master Infiltrator Executioner build. It relies much more on High INT as the Feats are for damage rather than Stealth extension. But I have completely the wrong armour with no Stealth bonus, and used the Saboteur feats instead of Executioner feats - so I will be re-specing her when I have the AD to get the 300 Zen.
Basically, I screwed it up by following advice from two completely different builds before I really understood what either of them were really about.
Pandora's build is a low-to-mid INT, Whisperknife Saboteur - the exact opposite kind of Perma-TR.
I race re-rolled my first Halfling into a Dragonborn and choose the rolls 14, 12, 15, 12, 11 and 13.
I put the Racial Bonus +2 points into CON and INT.
CF = Camp Fire Bonus
[FONT=Courier New] roll 01 10 20 30 40 50 60 CF STR 14 14 15 16 17 CON* 12 14 15 16 17 DEX 15 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 INT* 12 14 15 16 17 WIS 11 11 12 13 14 CHA 13 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 [/FONT]But with a race re-roll, you CAN change the initial rolls and level 1 Racial bonus points, but you cannot reassign where you put the bonus points on level-up.
For a Dragonborn, I would have probably gone for STR rather than CHA, so I would have more base Damage and Stamina Regeneration, but less Deflect and Combat Advantage bonus.
I could also have put the +2 points on character creation in DEX and CON, rather than INT and CON:
[FONT=Courier New] roll 01 10 20 30 40 50 60 CF STR 14 14 15 16 17 CON* 12 14 15 16 17 DEX* 15 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 INT 12 12 13 14 15 WIS 11 11 12 13 14 CHA 13 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 [/FONT]So I would have got 2% less Recharge from INT and +2% Critical Strike chance and +1% Deflect from DEX.
This would have worked just as well, possibly better, as Pandora has only INT 15. But I figured the INT 17 would help me out until I got the better gear. And maybe I could work in an Azure enchant later on, or use the Blue gear I have that has Crit 250, Recovery 125, instead of the 243/250 Recovery Blues...
People like Pandora have been doing this for years and probably spent a lot of time testing on the Preview Shard, so their advice is based on more than number crunching. They have actually done it and got to page 2 of the Leaderboard, along with GWFs and CWs.
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I'll really enjoy watching those!
I saw a video using Wicked Reminder - the uploader said it was vastly overlooked and that's why it hasn't been nerfed yet. It basically trashes the enemy's armour, so allowing much higher damage.
I might try it!
Keep in mind that all of these encounters "De-Stealth" the user so I won't be 100% invisible like I usually am.. more like semi-perma :P
Wicked Reminder
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYACQpIQpa8
Blitz
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2fS6u_u_vI
Deft Strike
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v50P7vthYKw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aWtfjrxhoc
Dazing Strike
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoXhXQS2vOU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbTEza610JI
Lashing Blade
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXOrUeTdJkU
Pandora u rock!
Video by video i'm learn more for how to play perma-stealth =D
Thanks ;p
Enjoy it before it gets fixed ;D
Having said that, it works fine for dailies and lairs. And being perma is great for Ghost Stories from the ToD campaign.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
I have an EXECUTIONER permastealth tr, which is supposed to be decent in PVE (on paper and as far as tr pve goes anyway) and what i mean is if u ever do dungeons how do u manage
This is not a PVE build. If you want a PVE build I will be pleased to help you.
You do not need my 100% Invisible build in PVE. Just run with the standard PVE TR powers, and of course, the Executionner feat tree.
Yes, there is some lag there. I usually run at 100-200ms of latency & can't try to cut that stealth meter too close before BnS or I'll usually lose stealth
This is most important. all theory-crafting is pointless if you have more fun doing it your own way. Besides, imo most people vastly exaggerate the impact of certain specs