It works just the same. Sorry if I gave you the wrong impression.
It's just that being a halfling, or whatever race that people consider to be the best for PvP, doesn't really effect WK-permas at all, because WK-permas after mod4 are on extremely defensive stance that doesn't allow even a moment of visibility.
It doesn' matter at all because if you're seen and caught, then whether or not you're a halfling with a bitsy higher CC resistance/deflect chance, is not going to make any difference at all.
So, if you spend 100% of the fight within stealth, then one would rather have some other advantage that applies to your way of fighting. Obviously 10% CC resistance/3% deflection, doesn't. +3 feats for being a human, does.
As a matter of fact, in this perspective even half-orcs or drows may actually be better than halflings for building a WK-perma/Pandora Style.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Gratz on making it this far without BiS stuff. Well done!
The ****? All a rogue needs is profound to be effective in solo queue. The easiest way to move up the leaderboard is by solo queueing, and rogues are probably the best class to carry with when you solo queue.
Not to take anything away from OP, but what a dumb statement. You try to act like you're the rogue PvP god on the forums it's so cringe worthy.
Only thing that would realistically make a difference (not really) is his weapon enchant.
running around and never capping lool
which top tr did u kill 1v1
i know that build.......u just leave
when real tr comes on cap
so before calling out any tr u should proly beat one 1v1 with
full hp ,not coming to only daily him
The easiest way to move up the leaderboard is by solo queueing,
That's debatabe..
I keep getting unorganized grabastic pieces of amphibian sh*t teams and I just dropped to like page 5 today.
Solo queueing is the most frustrating thing, ESPECIALLY as a Rogue when you do all the efforts in the world to backcap their base, turn your head around and see the two other bases red.
Only thing that would realistically make a difference (not really) is his weapon enchant.
I keep getting unorganized grabastic pieces of amphibian sh*t teams and I just dropped to like page 5 today.
Solo queueing is the most frustrating thing, ESPECIALLY as a Rogue when you do all the efforts in the world to backcap their base, turn your head around and see the two other bases red.
Duo queue is the best option for me.
1. It requires just one other person as good as yourself.
2. Two man semi-premade still puts you in the pug priority bracket, not get queued against 5 man premade.
3. Solo queue is rewarding, but it's based on luck. I'd have to say I have slightly better KD ratio than you, but my win-loss scores had seen better days! That's because I solo queued a lot as well. It's like buying 10 Preservation Wards and hoping that the 50% chance to upgrade doesn't screw you over x_x
4. When things get rough, you can fall back to a basic strategy: you 3, your friend 2, while your entire pug team camp the home base.
TL;DR, as good as your build is, your gear is, or your skill is -- you can never outplay 5 people if you have 4 stupid pugs on your team. Just a tip.
The ****? All a rogue needs is profound to be effective in solo queue. The easiest way to move up the leaderboard is by solo queueing, and rogues are probably the best class to carry with when you solo queue.
The TR is yes, the easiest class to do well when things go ugly, and in PuGs they have a tendency to do that -- hencem naturally in comparison TRs do show relatively better scores.
But never in the size and scope as you suggest.
In the end its a team game. Unless random queues land you enemies more incompetent than your nincompoop of a teammates, a single TR goes only so far -- unless your skill level is on par with (for example) keltz0r level or something, there are situations where its impossible for you to carry the game alone, and PuG games are full of those situations.
So if someone got there with zero help from any trusty friend, then yes, it does mean something, because most people who say "I achieved this without premades", I know it to be meaning merely "I've played some solo queues".
In actuality, those people spend most games with 2 or 3 man premadesl, which is something else entirely when compared with playing 100% solo queue. They just won't admit it was a "premade" because it wasn't a full team, but in reality, as rust mentioned above, 2~3 man premades are even easier than full-premades to rack up scores.
Not to take anything away from OP, but what a dumb statement. You try to act like you're the rogue PvP god on the forums it's so cringe worthy.
Only thing that would realistically make a difference (not really) is his weapon enchant.
I don't understand where this hostility is coming from. He merely congratulated someone for doing well. That was totally unnecessary as well as uncalled for.
I wouldn't want to pick sides but if the discussion has to go this way, I will mention that in the olden days, the resident egomaniac sniveling snobby TRs were the ones who used to act like gods in the forums, not rustlord.
The all-so-familiar attitude of elitist pigs who would shoot down any new ideas, suggestions, builds, tactics that is different from how they do things in their precious handful little "premade level", with smart-<font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> remarks that would treat many people like garbage and hurt their feelings.
Compared to those people, rust's been nothing but modest and friendly to everyone with a lot of new ideas and perspective that helped people, hence people respect him.
Sorry if this sounds blunt, but I've seen you acting way more poorly in the General forums, so let's not go there. There's no reason this discussion can't be be civil, pleasant, and informing.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
It works just the same. Sorry if I gave you the wrong impression.
It's just that being a halfling, or whatever race that people consider to be the best for PvP, doesn't really effect WK-permas at all, because WK-permas after mod4 are on extremely defensive stance that doesn't allow even a moment of visibility.
It doesn' matter at all because if you're seen and caught, then whether or not you're a halfling with a bitsy higher CC resistance/deflect chance, is not going to make any difference at all.
So, if you spend 100% of the fight within stealth, then one would rather have some other advantage that applies to your way of fighting. Obviously 10% CC resistance/3% deflection, doesn't. +3 feats for being a human, does.
As a matter of fact, in this perspective even half-orcs or drows may actually be better than halflings for building a WK-perma/Pandora Style.
I re-rolled into Sun Elf for the stat boosts to Int and Cha as it allowed me to get a good balance across all my stats. I did consider Human and it's probably the optimal choice for a scratch build but I've had experience of race change being flaky going to/from Human as the game doesn't know what to do with the extra 3 heroic feats and I didn't want to burn a respec on top of the race change.
This build will allow you to have a good KDR and advance decently in leaderboard.
Good luck! (Sergeant Knox voice)
What's your overall CD reduction percent? I'm struggling slightly to get the rotation nailed and at the moment I'm getting 1-2 seconds without stealth every 3rd rotation or so. My stats are pretty close to the ones you show so I'm guessing you may have another boost to recharge that doesn't show on the character sheet screenshots?
Or I'm just ham-fisted. Which is entirely possible.
So what feats would a drow take? as they don't have the 3 extra feats? just curious because I'm going to be respec to this in a few hours and give it a try, I've been researching all types of builds and this seems the most fun(for a beginner) like myself.
So what feats would a drow take? as they don't have the 3 extra feats? just curious because I'm going to be respec to this in a few hours and give it a try, I've been researching all types of builds and this seems the most fun(for a beginner) like myself.
I dropped 3 points in Action Advantage. All the other feats are essential to the build but the extra AP generation you can do without.
Thank you twilight, any tips on slotting? just recovery everywhere??
Slightly depends on your other sources of Recovery/CD reduction (Int, Artefacts, etc.). Currently I have a mix of Silvery, Radiant, and Dark but that's largely a hang-over from my old build.
You could go full Silvery for max recovery but you could start hitting diminishing returns and also gimp other, more DPS related stats.
This build has NO "Visibility weakness", you will be completely invisible 100% of the time, you don't even need a 3rd encounter to "Cover the vulnerability gap", because there's none.
What are your Cool Down times for Bait and Switch and Shadow Strike?
Does this build work with grim armours? And with a half Orc?
The Grim Armour full sets have a 25% Stealth meter bonus, so it should do. I bought a Battlefield Skulker's set from the AH for roughly 350k AD, IIRC, as I re-specced a Halfling to Dragonborn and redid the original rolls which I messed up.
As for a half-Orc, you cannot have the three extra human Heroic Feats and his INT may not give as much Recovery, but any race that makes a decent Thief should work as the Stealth bonus for the Whisperknife Saboteur comes from the Feats and gear. The Master Infiltrator Executioner build relies on High INT and high Recovery, but does more damage.
Does this build work with grim armours? And with a half Orc?
It SHOULD work, but I don't think you can stay invisible 100% of the time if you take my exact ability points. BUT! I suggest you add 1-2 more INT and you'll be good to go!
As a DC, I HATED perma-stealth TRs almost as much as OP CWs. But I had a couple of Halfling TRs that were leadership mules for 30 levels, so I resurrected one of them with a free Race Re-Roll token and made a Dragonborn Whisperknife; before they nerf the Stealth in Module 5.
Then I did some PvP to get the Crystalskull artifact. 14,000 Glory to go!
I can't maintain full stealth all the time atm, as PvP is pretty hectic and it actually takes a lot more skill than I realised. And she is SO brittle if she gets hit by anything that can freeze or stun her.
But I did some of the quests I missed, and it's pretty easy to stay stealthed in a dungeon as long as there is something to use Shadow Strike on, as things do not run around as much. If you suddenly become visible in PvP - not so much!
Once I get in-game I'll take a screenshot and post it here.
I'd be really interested in seeing a shot of your bonus attribute points per level as well.
With the Dragonborn, I put 2 points in CON and 2 in INT, thinking the extra hp and Recharge speed would help. But I could not shift the bonuses from CHA to STR unless I use a Re-Spec Token as well.
Comparing yours with mine:
STR 18 17
CON 14 17
DEX 22 22
INT 15 17
WIS 15 14
CHA 20 20
Of course, I have three Feats missing as well.
My stats have the Camp Fire +1 bonus.
Also, is there any particular reason you chose the Scoundrel's armour rather than, say, the Executioner's with it's extra Crit and Recovery? I'm guessing the ArPen is better.
Also, what Offence and Defence Enchants do you have?
Hey guys,
so, i saw a lot of people saying whisperknife is not so good for high lvl pvp, i'm a new TR, just 3 months playing, and i'm want a perma stealth build but, i have a problem to use DF, and enemys see me every time when i try sneak him / her...
i'm save glory to buy tier 3 pvp so my build isn't a perma stealth yet, but i have some idea how it work, i saw some videos and know how use skills for still stealth.
i'm using bait and switch, ItC and Lashing Blade and DF & CoS but it is temporarily, i saw videos about that build and i'm see it work very well, but it really works in high lvl pvp and what the difference about MI and WK?
If somebody want to adopt me as a disciple i'll be glad cause there is a lot of thing for learn, @danntedairon.
OBS.: Sorry about my terrible english, unfortunately its not my native language.
Hey guys,
so, i saw a lot of people saying whisperknife is not so good for high lvl pvp, i'm a new TR, just 3 months playing, and i'm want a perma stealth build but, i have a problem to use DF, and enemys see me every time when i try sneak him / her...
i'm save glory to buy tier 3 pvp so my build isn't a perma stealth yet, but i have some idea how it work, i saw some videos and know how use skills for still stealth.
i'm using bait and switch, ItC and Lashing Blade and DF & CoS but it is temporarily, i saw videos about that build and i'm see it work very well, but it really works in high lvl pvp and what the difference about MI and WK?
If somebody want to adopt me as a disciple i'll be glad cause there is a lot of thing for learn, @danntedairon.
OBS.: Sorry about my terrible english, unfortunately its not my native language.
Don't worry about "high level PvP." Spec similar to pandora to get 100% perma, make it human for the +9% at will heroic feat and you will do fine against 95% of opponents. The build is only ineffective against BiS, tanky types & other TRs that run PotB.
Don't worry about "high level PvP." Spec similar to pandora to get 100% perma, make it human for the +9% at will heroic feat and you will do fine against 95% of opponents. The build is only ineffective against BiS, tanky types & other TRs that run PotB.
hey dude, thanks for answer!!
So, i'm a Drow but i'm thinking to reroll to other class, i was in mind halfing and Human.
Whats is BiS (sorry some abbreviations i don't understand =/)
I'm excited with that build i really liked it!
I have a question about enchantments, why a lot of people say to put silvery on slots? when my build will be 100% completed, should i change or still silvery?
hey dude, thanks for answer!!
So, i'm a Drow but i'm thinking to reroll to other class, i was in mind halfing and Human.
Whats is BiS (sorry some abbreviations i don't understand =/)
I'm excited with that build i really liked it!
I have a question about enchantments, why a lot of people say to put silvery on slots? when my build will be 100% completed, should i change or still silvery?
Hate to say it, but drow is one of the worst race's (sadly, because I think they are cool). Halfling is almost always the best option for PvP, because you get extra CC resist (stuns/freezes/roots resisted more & shorter duration... +3% deflect, & +2 con/dex at character creation. The only instance where human is better than halfling, is when you are 100% perma WK. When you are invis 100% of the time, the defensive abilities of the halfling are largely wasted. As a human you grab 3 extra heroic feat points, which you can put in "Scoundral Training" for an extra 9% damage from "Disheartening Strike" and "Clouds of steel." This makes a huge difference.
Anyway, BiS = Best in Slot (own and equip best gear & enchants available)
Most TRs use silvery for offensive enchant slots to enable perma stealth... silvery enchants shorten the CD of all your encounters & our encounters have insanely long base timers. You pretty much need a minimum of 24% recharge speed and profound gear to run perma... I know others here say you can do it with far less, but its very gimmicky and rarely works out as well in real PvP vs training dummies.
I would max out int & con on character creation, and shoot for about 26% recharge speed to give yourself some wiggle room. This way you can still take some damage while stealthed and maintain perma. You can always replace the silvery's with crit or power enchants if you think the extra recharge speed is overkill.
I just re-rolled my race and spec to try out rustlords reflect build, but personally I hate it for PvP (PvE is awesome... I can tank!); anyway, I will probably be going back to my human WK build in another day or two. I'll be speccing exactly as I just described above. Shoot for 26% recharge, then stack power/crit.
Comments
Update my fellow WhisperKnives ! Page 2 on leaderboard! 100% solo queue pug. Dat represent ;D
Indeed. I've been hearing Underhanded Tactics was broken since more than a year ago.
When are they ever gonna get around to fixing it? ;; gee whiz;
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
We all know how Rogue is treated.
I'd say once module 5 is released maybe. And it'll probably be lowered in % (Max being 10...). I'm sure of it.
Why wouldn't this build work for half-lings???
It works just the same. Sorry if I gave you the wrong impression.
It's just that being a halfling, or whatever race that people consider to be the best for PvP, doesn't really effect WK-permas at all, because WK-permas after mod4 are on extremely defensive stance that doesn't allow even a moment of visibility.
It doesn' matter at all because if you're seen and caught, then whether or not you're a halfling with a bitsy higher CC resistance/deflect chance, is not going to make any difference at all.
So, if you spend 100% of the fight within stealth, then one would rather have some other advantage that applies to your way of fighting. Obviously 10% CC resistance/3% deflection, doesn't. +3 feats for being a human, does.
As a matter of fact, in this perspective even half-orcs or drows may actually be better than halflings for building a WK-perma/Pandora Style.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Gratz on making it this far without BiS stuff. Well done!
The ****? All a rogue needs is profound to be effective in solo queue. The easiest way to move up the leaderboard is by solo queueing, and rogues are probably the best class to carry with when you solo queue.
Not to take anything away from OP, but what a dumb statement. You try to act like you're the rogue PvP god on the forums it's so cringe worthy.
Only thing that would realistically make a difference (not really) is his weapon enchant.
which top tr did u kill 1v1
i know that build.......u just leave
when real tr comes on cap
so before calling out any tr u should proly beat one 1v1 with
full hp ,not coming to only daily him
Thank you~
That's debatabe..
I keep getting unorganized grabastic pieces of amphibian sh*t teams and I just dropped to like page 5 today.
Solo queueing is the most frustrating thing, ESPECIALLY as a Rogue when you do all the efforts in the world to backcap their base, turn your head around and see the two other bases red.
All I have is a Normal Vorpal.
Duo queue is the best option for me.
1. It requires just one other person as good as yourself.
2. Two man semi-premade still puts you in the pug priority bracket, not get queued against 5 man premade.
3. Solo queue is rewarding, but it's based on luck. I'd have to say I have slightly better KD ratio than you, but my win-loss scores had seen better days! That's because I solo queued a lot as well. It's like buying 10 Preservation Wards and hoping that the 50% chance to upgrade doesn't screw you over x_x
4. When things get rough, you can fall back to a basic strategy: you 3, your friend 2, while your entire pug team camp the home base.
TL;DR, as good as your build is, your gear is, or your skill is -- you can never outplay 5 people if you have 4 stupid pugs on your team. Just a tip.
The TR is yes, the easiest class to do well when things go ugly, and in PuGs they have a tendency to do that -- hencem naturally in comparison TRs do show relatively better scores.
But never in the size and scope as you suggest.
In the end its a team game. Unless random queues land you enemies more incompetent than your nincompoop of a teammates, a single TR goes only so far -- unless your skill level is on par with (for example) keltz0r level or something, there are situations where its impossible for you to carry the game alone, and PuG games are full of those situations.
So if someone got there with zero help from any trusty friend, then yes, it does mean something, because most people who say "I achieved this without premades", I know it to be meaning merely "I've played some solo queues".
In actuality, those people spend most games with 2 or 3 man premadesl, which is something else entirely when compared with playing 100% solo queue. They just won't admit it was a "premade" because it wasn't a full team, but in reality, as rust mentioned above, 2~3 man premades are even easier than full-premades to rack up scores.
I don't understand where this hostility is coming from. He merely congratulated someone for doing well. That was totally unnecessary as well as uncalled for.
I wouldn't want to pick sides but if the discussion has to go this way, I will mention that in the olden days, the resident egomaniac sniveling snobby TRs were the ones who used to act like gods in the forums, not rustlord.
The all-so-familiar attitude of elitist pigs who would shoot down any new ideas, suggestions, builds, tactics that is different from how they do things in their precious handful little "premade level", with smart-<font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> remarks that would treat many people like garbage and hurt their feelings.
Compared to those people, rust's been nothing but modest and friendly to everyone with a lot of new ideas and perspective that helped people, hence people respect him.
Sorry if this sounds blunt, but I've seen you acting way more poorly in the General forums, so let's not go there. There's no reason this discussion can't be be civil, pleasant, and informing.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Or I'm just ham-fisted. Which is entirely possible.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
You could go full Silvery for max recovery but you could start hitting diminishing returns and also gimp other, more DPS related stats.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
What are your Cool Down times for Bait and Switch and Shadow Strike?
The Grim Armour full sets have a 25% Stealth meter bonus, so it should do. I bought a Battlefield Skulker's set from the AH for roughly 350k AD, IIRC, as I re-specced a Halfling to Dragonborn and redid the original rolls which I messed up.
As for a half-Orc, you cannot have the three extra human Heroic Feats and his INT may not give as much Recovery, but any race that makes a decent Thief should work as the Stealth bonus for the Whisperknife Saboteur comes from the Feats and gear. The Master Infiltrator Executioner build relies on High INT and high Recovery, but does more damage.
Once I get in-game I'll take a screenshot and post it here.
It SHOULD work, but I don't think you can stay invisible 100% of the time if you take my exact ability points. BUT! I suggest you add 1-2 more INT and you'll be good to go!
Hi, glad to see you back.
As a DC, I HATED perma-stealth TRs almost as much as OP CWs. But I had a couple of Halfling TRs that were leadership mules for 30 levels, so I resurrected one of them with a free Race Re-Roll token and made a Dragonborn Whisperknife; before they nerf the Stealth in Module 5.
Then I did some PvP to get the Crystalskull artifact. 14,000 Glory to go!
I can't maintain full stealth all the time atm, as PvP is pretty hectic and it actually takes a lot more skill than I realised. And she is SO brittle if she gets hit by anything that can freeze or stun her.
But I did some of the quests I missed, and it's pretty easy to stay stealthed in a dungeon as long as there is something to use Shadow Strike on, as things do not run around as much. If you suddenly become visible in PvP - not so much!
I'd be really interested in seeing a shot of your bonus attribute points per level as well.
With the Dragonborn, I put 2 points in CON and 2 in INT, thinking the extra hp and Recharge speed would help. But I could not shift the bonuses from CHA to STR unless I use a Re-Spec Token as well.
Comparing yours with mine:
STR 18 17
CON 14 17
DEX 22 22
INT 15 17
WIS 15 14
CHA 20 20
Of course, I have three Feats missing as well.
My stats have the Camp Fire +1 bonus.
Also, is there any particular reason you chose the Scoundrel's armour rather than, say, the Executioner's with it's extra Crit and Recovery? I'm guessing the ArPen is better.
Also, what Offence and Defence Enchants do you have?
Cheers!
As for the 4-set. I chose Scoundrel because it's the best all-around one IMO. Gives power, armPen, defense and deflect.
As for enchants, I have:
Armor : Silvery Enchantment
Main Hand : Silvery Enchantment
Off Hand : Radiant
Neck, Rings(x2), and Belt : Silvery Enchantment
Shirt: Dark enchantment
Pants: Silvery Enchantment
Hope this helped~
so, i saw a lot of people saying whisperknife is not so good for high lvl pvp, i'm a new TR, just 3 months playing, and i'm want a perma stealth build but, i have a problem to use DF, and enemys see me every time when i try sneak him / her...
i'm save glory to buy tier 3 pvp so my build isn't a perma stealth yet, but i have some idea how it work, i saw some videos and know how use skills for still stealth.
i'm using bait and switch, ItC and Lashing Blade and DF & CoS but it is temporarily, i saw videos about that build and i'm see it work very well, but it really works in high lvl pvp and what the difference about MI and WK?
If somebody want to adopt me as a disciple i'll be glad cause there is a lot of thing for learn, @danntedairon.
OBS.: Sorry about my terrible english, unfortunately its not my native language.
Don't worry about "high level PvP." Spec similar to pandora to get 100% perma, make it human for the +9% at will heroic feat and you will do fine against 95% of opponents. The build is only ineffective against BiS, tanky types & other TRs that run PotB.
hey dude, thanks for answer!!
So, i'm a Drow but i'm thinking to reroll to other class, i was in mind halfing and Human.
Whats is BiS (sorry some abbreviations i don't understand =/)
I'm excited with that build i really liked it!
I have a question about enchantments, why a lot of people say to put silvery on slots? when my build will be 100% completed, should i change or still silvery?
Hate to say it, but drow is one of the worst race's (sadly, because I think they are cool). Halfling is almost always the best option for PvP, because you get extra CC resist (stuns/freezes/roots resisted more & shorter duration... +3% deflect, & +2 con/dex at character creation. The only instance where human is better than halfling, is when you are 100% perma WK. When you are invis 100% of the time, the defensive abilities of the halfling are largely wasted. As a human you grab 3 extra heroic feat points, which you can put in "Scoundral Training" for an extra 9% damage from "Disheartening Strike" and "Clouds of steel." This makes a huge difference.
Anyway, BiS = Best in Slot (own and equip best gear & enchants available)
Most TRs use silvery for offensive enchant slots to enable perma stealth... silvery enchants shorten the CD of all your encounters & our encounters have insanely long base timers. You pretty much need a minimum of 24% recharge speed and profound gear to run perma... I know others here say you can do it with far less, but its very gimmicky and rarely works out as well in real PvP vs training dummies.
I would max out int & con on character creation, and shoot for about 26% recharge speed to give yourself some wiggle room. This way you can still take some damage while stealthed and maintain perma. You can always replace the silvery's with crit or power enchants if you think the extra recharge speed is overkill.
I just re-rolled my race and spec to try out rustlords reflect build, but personally I hate it for PvP (PvE is awesome... I can tank!); anyway, I will probably be going back to my human WK build in another day or two. I'll be speccing exactly as I just described above. Shoot for 26% recharge, then stack power/crit.
I will obviously come with a whole new alternative on my own, will need to test the stuff on preview when it comes out!