Even though PoP should have always have had the ability to crit, the issue with making it able to do is that, if the developers leave its damage unchanged, even at 100% crit and very high crit severity, it won't not a match for PoP with 0% + Infantile Compensation procs so it will actually be a dps nerf. PoP needs a substantial damage increase so its damage is worth something, that or getting the personal and group damage buff from it boosted by quite a bit.
In that tread. pyrosorcerer suggested that PoP should be able crit, and expected that due crit ability, dealt dmg would replace/cover OBC dealt dmg.. And now you all notice that PoP with crit still can't provide same effect as what Owlbear cub companion provided.
Anyways,, since I have almost no interest in this game. And more less SW is dead.. I will share one nice trick.
To do so, need aboleth weapon, Tyrannical Curse, good timing and luck.
Aboleth weapon need due it's bonus dmg effect(Tainted Attack ). Which is 100% crit hits.
TC can't crit( by normal means).
Now. There is power casting break trick.. You cast and in middle of it brake animation. I use Gate of hell + fiery bolt trick. You cast, gate of hell > break/cancel animation and cast fiery bolt. Which ends up as one big hit.
Now back to TC. You cast it, break/cancel animation and cast either WB, WS, HG. And with some luck you can trigger Aboleth weapons Bonus dmg effect in that time.. Which ends up as CRIT Tyrannical curse.
So you have all TC hits as crit, combined with ACC class feature + Infernal wraith feat(fury SW). You have kinda nice dmg increase.
It's hard to produce it, because lot of depending on luck to trigger Tainted Attack in right moment..
So far manage to perform such tricks about 7 times. .
As for other my known tricks.. Well I leave you guys to find out by yourselfs..
p.s yes, this is glitch. But heck, whole class is just glitch/bugs combo..
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
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pyrosorcererMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 137Arc User
The october bugfix thread has some more upcoming buffs for Tyrannical Curse. On my phone so stressful to quote, but should be around page 30 ish
The october bugfix thread has some more upcoming buffs for Tyrannical Curse. On my phone so stressful to quote, but should be around page 30 ish
I read about so called buff... Also seems within preview server now is very easy to get crit Tyrannical curse. Because due aboleth weapons Tainted Attacks bonus(crit) dmg. Which actually now interact with all powers.. In other words any DoT, or any other source of dmg become full crit..
But even with that. Well. Not much increase within gameplay... Because all classes can benefit from aboleth weapons Tainted Attack crit trick anyways... As good example, lightning enchantment interaction with this (bonus) dmg. And warlocks TC looks puny compared to lightning...
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
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pyrosorcererMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 137Arc User
Well, the buffs I am speaking of are several, but some things to notice:
Pillar of power being able to crit leads to: - Proccing Lesser curses from pillar -> the attacks by the actual damage dealing powers in AoE situations will proc creeping death, which for example the first AoE would not as it would only be used to proc the curses. - It will proc Critical Promise, maybe not a lot, but some damage - Will keep lesser curses up easier, so a more stable uptime for stable DoT and constant debuff through fury feat
Tyrannical Curse: - Changed so the debuff scales with Brutal Curse feat = It also has additional 10% with the feat - The damage increase from TC is upped to 25%, so with Brutal Curse this is 35%, means it even is useful in single target to some degree. - They fixed double mitigation from the damage linked to surrounding enemies, no more double mitigation
They fixed murderous flames to not be double mitigated and actually deal the 1/3 damage as AoE and not only 1/5 - 1/6 of the damage.
Anyways, there are some more minor details as well, and I have not tested if they actually fixed them, but I believe their word for now, so I do actually think these changes can be quite nice. And referring to it as a "so-called buff" is imo absolutely wrong, it is actually several buffs, and if they work as described it should be sweet.
Considering TC, MF and a few other fixes, SW dps shouldn't change much, I believe we may still deal a bit less dps due to PoP having harcore low damage but at least the other changes should make our damage output more powerful by itself rather than depending on OBC. Still, other classes are getting their tweaks as well so we will be, compared to them, just as weak if not weaker than we are now, SW still will be in desperate need for a rework, too many limitations and damage issues letf the class behind the other damage dealers.
Well, the buffs I am speaking of are several, but some things to notice:
Pillar of power being able to crit leads to: - Proccing Lesser curses from pillar -> the attacks by the actual damage dealing powers in AoE situations will proc creeping death, which for example the first AoE would not as it would only be used to proc the curses. - It will proc Critical Promise, maybe not a lot, but some damage - Will keep lesser curses up easier, so a more stable uptime for stable DoT and constant debuff through fury feat
Tyrannical Curse: - Changed so the debuff scales with Brutal Curse feat = It also has additional 10% with the feat - The damage increase from TC is upped to 25%, so with Brutal Curse this is 35%, means it even is useful in single target to some degree. - They fixed double mitigation from the damage linked to surrounding enemies, no more double mitigation
They fixed murderous flames to not be double mitigated and actually deal the 1/3 damage as AoE and not only 1/5 - 1/6 of the damage.
Anyways, there are some more minor details as well, and I have not tested if they actually fixed them, but I believe their word for now, so I do actually think these changes can be quite nice. And referring to it as a "so-called buff" is imo absolutely wrong, it is actually several buffs, and if they work as described it should be sweet.
And these changes looks like cosmetic ones. It's still keep Sw far far far far far far far from any actual strikers/dps classes.
Also, this ability to land Crit hits with Tyrannical Curse is nice thing. Combined with ACC class feature you apply Lesser curses and thats also apply Infernal wraith feats effect and increase dmg toward lesser curse affected targets..
But it's still far from trans lightning enchant + Tainted Attacks bonus dmg combo. Which lead > all lightning enchant hits become crit.. Thats mean 100% crit, regardless if you have crit build or not.
AS for single target.. 35% dmg increase. Nice.. But I wondering do TC + FoE + DT + Creeping death is better combo than Curse> Flames of Phlegethos + DT + Creeping death feat combo?
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
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pyrosorcererMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 137Arc User
Yup, not saying we will be balanced, just saying the state hopefully might not move in the wrong direction at least.
Yup, not saying we will be balanced, just saying the state hopefully might not move in the wrong direction at least.
Lets see, Since mod 4 when warlock got introduction. Each powers fix ended up as warlock performance drop..
When warlock get some power fix, I always hope we will get minor power drops, but more we fox. more we lose. So yeah, I can go in right direction and lead to 2 outcomes. Problems got fixed and SW become on par with half eat can of tuna, or some powers not got fixed and we could at least compete with 65 lv heal DC in term of dealt dmg...
Now for more serious..
Fixing stuffs is good. But with warlock, it need not each powers fixing separated, but fix whole class. From a to z. Thats mean all mechanics and formulas related with SW need revised. It's safe to say that to fix warlock would need at least 2 months, maybe more. Ability scores and curve stat evaluation formulas, gear, feats, everything need to revise..
And why need that.. All because due desing itself is not good for this game..
Damage over time classes have weakness, which is time itself. You need time frame so your powers would deal it's full dmg. However neverwinter is in favor for burst powers., and only in boss fights DoT class can try compete with others..
NExt, buff/selfbuffs class vs debuff class..
Warlocks powers goes from debuffing.. Applying debuff/bad stats elements and thus increasing damage toward affected enemies. Weakness of it is, that each new enemy need debuff in order to reach best outgoing dmg.
While selfbuff classes, hit enemies and empower himself. So they can engage in fight with new enemies and still have high dmg output without dropping.. And neverwinter is in favor for such classes.
Warlock have DoT power and Debuffs.. thats mean warlock naturally have 2 flaws within desing, and it will never be able compete with other..
yet funny, why devs didn't provide warlock dark arts/dark magic/hellish forces like effects to empower himself.. That would reduce gap between classes..
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
I took a break but please, if someone could explain: If PoP crit's the average tick deals about 280% instead oft 100% for a critbuild and profits from powershare same as a noncrit. OBC is a 50% plus per noncrit. So PoP ticks should be like 280% instead of 150%, that's a 130% plus. If you play WL as a striker (100% crit) your DPS should be significant better, not worse. A pure critbuild is and allways was the only competable build imho. Not to talk about Creeping death that procs of Lesser Curse, 60% on top. All in all dps should be about the double dealt by PoP and if CD procs you get 60% extra, wich theoretically more than triples the DPS compared to PoP+OBC Do I miss something?
Post edited by schietindebux on
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pyrosorcererMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 137Arc User
OBC is not an extra 50% damage to the ticks of PoP, it is an additional hit for 50% of you power, which with buffs can be 50k+ (at power levels of 100k-130k ish).
I took a break but please, if someone could explain:
If PoP crit's the average tick deals about 280% instead oft 100% for a critbuild and profits from powershare same as a noncrit.
OBC is a 50% plus per noncrit.
So PoP ticks should be like 280% instead of 150%, that's a 130% plus.
If you play WL as a striker (100% crit) your DPS should be significant better, not worse. A pure critbuild is and allways was the only competable build imho.
Not to talk about Creeping death that procs of Lesser Curse, 60% on top. All in all dps should be about the double dealt by PoP and if CD procs you get 60% extra, wich theoretically more than triples the DPS compared to PoP+OBC
Do I miss something?
The base damage from pillar is way too small. the procs from OBC were easily 4x times that of the PoP ticks. My old logs from way back when I played the class showed OBC damage around 12% to 14% while PoP around 3 to 4% when playing fury. When playing temptation OBC was way over 30%. So, considering the fury case, the combo PoP+OBC was dealing from 15 to 18%. I doubt that only the crit factor will make PoP go from 3% of your damage to even 10% of your total damage. Even if you consider that now you will be dealing more damage that contributes to CD, that still wont offset the damage lost by OBC.
Let's say: 30k pop + 100k OBC + 18k CD = 148k damage. Now if you have 100% crit and 200% severity it would be something like this: 90k pop + 54k CD = 144k damage. So at an unrealistic 200% severity and 100% crit chance it's still a decrease.
Oh, and even though PoP didn't crit before, I think I recall it did proc ACC putting lesser curse as a hidden crit check was going on in the back. I'm sure it used to proc the vorpal on crit effect even though it didn't crit. So it would be even less of a positive side there if my memory is not playing tricks on me.
Since Mod 13 started I've been exclusively running Templock to test in different scenarios/zones/etc. Including ToNG/FBI/Spellplague (Master) and different zones... Overall, I've been really enjoying it!
Though don't fret DPSers, I've been taking time to look into that also! I'll be away from the game the next week and a half or so for work related travels, but I hope to complete my mod 13 Guide sometime the week after next. So sorry for the delay my friends, but I wanted you all to be aware!
Since Mod 13 started I've been exclusively running Templock to test in different scenarios/zones/etc. Including ToNG/FBI/Spellplague (Master) and different zones... Overall, I've been really enjoying it!
It is an adjustment of course, going Templock, as since August of 2015 when SW came out I've been almost exclusively focused on maximizing DPS. What's nice is that I've found I'm still contributing DPS, 2nd/3rd on Paingiver list (though honestly I hate that ranking system and think it should be removed!), to the party while obviously increasing the Party's success/DPS at the same time...
Hi, I have been using Soulforge from day one (lesser because a bigger one is not that good for the cost). Would it be wise to change it for Barkshield or another one?
As far as I remember the barkshield effect did not stack with the anointed army protection.
> @nisckis said: > Hi, I have been using Soulforge from day one (lesser because a bigger one is not that good for the cost). Would it be wise to change it for Barkshield or another one? > > As far as I remember the barkshield effect did not stack with the anointed army protection. > > Thanks in advance
In a team where everyone knows their class and plays according to the meta, things will die so fast and you'll have so much survability (via protecting powers, sheperd's devotion stacking, your shadowslip, etc) that barkshield will be overkill or pointless... actually, SW being able to proc immunity from shadowslip without moving renders all protection enchantments pointnless vs those big hits that can potentially be a 1 shot as you'll take no damage (unless it is a shot mechanic) so for example yes you can have lots of armour breaker stacks, facetank Ras Nsi's IBS and survive (you'd need to deal with fire dot damage but it's doable)
In a team with worse perfomance than the one mentioned first and at 216k+ hp, anything that can 1 shot you without unparalleled barkshield will most likely still 1 shot you with that enchantment on at max stacks so, that begs to the question, aside from making you less likely to get dismounted by dinos in Chult, why even bother with barkshield at least in pve?
I suggest you to either stick with that soulforged or get an elven, not because of cc reduction (it is useless vs powerful cc powers at endgame) but because of its stamina regen as it helps you have a better uptime of gladiator's guile and the dps bonus from the endurant boots (3% more damage when you are at 100% stamina) by virtue to getting your stamina topped off faster (you'd recover it faster after shadowslipping)
Armour enchantments for dps classes in pve: very overrated, hilariously bad return on investment overall.
At the start of Mod 13 I was utilizing Trans Elven Battle, and found it to be sufficient for Mod 13 work. Though in all honesty it was for the Stamina regeneration effect that I really liked it for, as the CC resistance/reduction was meh even against the CC in Chult/Omu. For the past few weeks I've moved to Barkshield and I've honestly noticed a good bump in survivability, particularly when Soloing.
Honestly, thus far, I'd rather stick with Barkshield as I've actually seen a noticeable impact on my game play with it. Which is just my current opinion, though I do advocate moving away from Soulforge in general unless you PVP!
Another fun bonus, honestly a minor one, is the Earth Archon as Barkshield keeps you from falling below full health more often. Just something random that I find cool... lol
Comments
In that tread. pyrosorcerer suggested that PoP should be able crit, and expected that due crit ability, dealt dmg would replace/cover OBC dealt dmg.. And now you all notice that PoP with crit still can't provide same effect as what Owlbear cub companion provided.
Anyways,, since I have almost no interest in this game. And more less SW is dead.. I will share one nice trick.
To do so, need aboleth weapon, Tyrannical Curse, good timing and luck.
Aboleth weapon need due it's bonus dmg effect(Tainted Attack ). Which is 100% crit hits.
TC can't crit( by normal means).
Now. There is power casting break trick.. You cast and in middle of it brake animation. I use Gate of hell + fiery bolt trick.
You cast, gate of hell > break/cancel animation and cast fiery bolt. Which ends up as one big hit.
Now back to TC. You cast it, break/cancel animation and cast either WB, WS, HG. And with some luck you can trigger Aboleth weapons Bonus dmg effect in that time..
Which ends up as CRIT Tyrannical curse.
So you have all TC hits as crit, combined with ACC class feature + Infernal wraith feat(fury SW). You have kinda nice dmg increase.
It's hard to produce it, because lot of depending on luck to trigger Tainted Attack in right moment..
So far manage to perform such tricks about 7 times.
As for other my known tricks.. Well I leave you guys to find out by yourselfs..
p.s yes, this is glitch. But heck, whole class is just glitch/bugs combo..
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
==================================================
But even with that. Well. Not much increase within gameplay... Because all classes can benefit from aboleth weapons Tainted Attack crit trick anyways... As good example, lightning enchantment interaction with this (bonus) dmg. And warlocks TC looks puny compared to lightning...
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
==================================================
Well, the buffs I am speaking of are several, but some things to notice:
Pillar of power being able to crit leads to:
- Proccing Lesser curses from pillar -> the attacks by the actual damage dealing powers in AoE situations will proc creeping death, which for example the first AoE would not as it would only be used to proc the curses.
- It will proc Critical Promise, maybe not a lot, but some damage
- Will keep lesser curses up easier, so a more stable uptime for stable DoT and constant debuff through fury feat
Tyrannical Curse:
- Changed so the debuff scales with Brutal Curse feat = It also has additional 10% with the feat
- The damage increase from TC is upped to 25%, so with Brutal Curse this is 35%, means it even is useful in single target to some degree.
- They fixed double mitigation from the damage linked to surrounding enemies, no more double mitigation
They fixed murderous flames to not be double mitigated and actually deal the 1/3 damage as AoE and not only 1/5 - 1/6 of the damage.
Anyways, there are some more minor details as well, and I have not tested if they actually fixed them, but I believe their word for now, so I do actually think these changes can be quite nice. And referring to it as a "so-called buff" is imo absolutely wrong, it is actually several buffs, and if they work as described it should be sweet.
Also, this ability to land Crit hits with Tyrannical Curse is nice thing. Combined with ACC class feature you apply Lesser curses and thats also apply Infernal wraith feats effect and increase dmg toward lesser curse affected targets..
But it's still far from trans lightning enchant + Tainted Attacks bonus dmg combo. Which lead > all lightning enchant hits become crit.. Thats mean 100% crit, regardless if you have crit build or not.
AS for single target..
35% dmg increase. Nice.. But I wondering do TC + FoE + DT + Creeping death is better combo than
Curse> Flames of Phlegethos + DT + Creeping death feat combo?
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
==================================================
When warlock get some power fix, I always hope we will get minor power drops, but more we fox. more we lose.
So yeah, I can go in right direction and lead to 2 outcomes. Problems got fixed and SW become on par with half eat can of tuna, or some powers not got fixed and we could at least compete with 65 lv heal DC in term of dealt dmg...
Now for more serious..
Fixing stuffs is good. But with warlock, it need not each powers fixing separated, but fix whole class. From a to z. Thats mean all mechanics and formulas related with SW need revised. It's safe to say that to fix warlock would need at least 2 months, maybe more.
Ability scores and curve stat evaluation formulas, gear, feats, everything need to revise..
And why need that.. All because due desing itself is not good for this game..
Damage over time classes have weakness, which is time itself. You need time frame so your powers would deal it's full dmg. However neverwinter is in favor for burst powers., and only in boss fights DoT class can try compete with others..
NExt, buff/selfbuffs class vs debuff class..
Warlocks powers goes from debuffing.. Applying debuff/bad stats elements and thus increasing damage toward affected enemies.
Weakness of it is, that each new enemy need debuff in order to reach best outgoing dmg.
While selfbuff classes, hit enemies and empower himself. So they can engage in fight with new enemies and still have high dmg output without dropping..
And neverwinter is in favor for such classes.
Warlock have DoT power and Debuffs.. thats mean warlock naturally have 2 flaws within desing, and it will never be able compete with other..
yet funny, why devs didn't provide warlock dark arts/dark magic/hellish forces like effects to empower himself.. That would reduce gap between classes..
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
==================================================
If PoP crit's the average tick deals about 280% instead oft 100% for a critbuild and profits from powershare same as a noncrit.
OBC is a 50% plus per noncrit.
So PoP ticks should be like 280% instead of 150%, that's a 130% plus.
If you play WL as a striker (100% crit) your DPS should be significant better, not worse. A pure critbuild is and allways was the only competable build imho.
Not to talk about Creeping death that procs of Lesser Curse, 60% on top. All in all dps should be about the double dealt by PoP and if CD procs you get 60% extra, wich theoretically more than triples the DPS compared to PoP+OBC
Do I miss something?
OBC is not an extra 50% damage to the ticks of PoP, it is an additional hit for 50% of you power, which with buffs can be 50k+ (at power levels of 100k-130k ish).
Let's say: 30k pop + 100k OBC + 18k CD = 148k damage. Now if you have 100% crit and 200% severity it would be something like this: 90k pop + 54k CD = 144k damage. So at an unrealistic 200% severity and 100% crit chance it's still a decrease.
Oh, and even though PoP didn't crit before, I think I recall it did proc ACC putting lesser curse as a hidden crit check was going on in the back. I'm sure it used to proc the vorpal on crit effect even though it didn't crit. So it would be even less of a positive side there if my memory is not playing tricks on me.
Maybe I got it all wrong, I hope.
>
Coming back like a boss with those gifts!
> Coming back like a boss with those gifts!
>
> I do have a reputation to uphold after all...
Indeed!
Since Mod 13 started I've been exclusively running Templock to test in different scenarios/zones/etc. Including ToNG/FBI/Spellplague (Master) and different zones... Overall, I've been really enjoying it!
Though don't fret DPSers, I've been taking time to look into that also! I'll be away from the game the next week and a half or so for work related travels, but I hope to complete my mod 13 Guide sometime the week after next. So sorry for the delay my friends, but I wanted you all to be aware!
It is an adjustment of course, going Templock, as since August of 2015 when SW came out I've been almost exclusively focused on maximizing DPS. What's nice is that I've found I'm still contributing DPS, 2nd/3rd on Paingiver list (though honestly I hate that ranking system and think it should be removed!), to the party while obviously increasing the Party's success/DPS at the same time...
It's be a lot of fun!
As far as I remember the barkshield effect did not stack with the anointed army protection.
Thanks in advance
> Hi, I have been using Soulforge from day one (lesser because a bigger one is not that good for the cost). Would it be wise to change it for Barkshield or another one?
>
> As far as I remember the barkshield effect did not stack with the anointed army protection.
>
> Thanks in advance
@nisckis
Think of it this way:
In a team where everyone knows their class and plays according to the meta, things will die so fast and you'll have so much survability (via protecting powers, sheperd's devotion stacking, your shadowslip, etc) that barkshield will be overkill or pointless... actually, SW being able to proc immunity from shadowslip without moving renders all protection enchantments pointnless vs those big hits that can potentially be a 1 shot as you'll take no damage (unless it is a shot mechanic) so for example yes you can have lots of armour breaker stacks, facetank Ras Nsi's IBS and survive (you'd need to deal with fire dot damage but it's doable)
In a team with worse perfomance than the one mentioned first and at 216k+ hp, anything that can 1 shot you without unparalleled barkshield will most likely still 1 shot you with that enchantment on at max stacks so, that begs to the question, aside from making you less likely to get dismounted by dinos in Chult, why even bother with barkshield at least in pve?
I suggest you to either stick with that soulforged or get an elven, not because of cc reduction (it is useless vs powerful cc powers at endgame) but because of its stamina regen as it helps you have a better uptime of gladiator's guile and the dps bonus from the endurant boots (3% more damage when you are at 100% stamina) by virtue to getting your stamina topped off faster (you'd recover it faster after shadowslipping)
Armour enchantments for dps classes in pve: very overrated, hilariously bad return on investment overall.
At the start of Mod 13 I was utilizing Trans Elven Battle, and found it to be sufficient for Mod 13 work. Though in all honesty it was for the Stamina regeneration effect that I really liked it for, as the CC resistance/reduction was meh even against the CC in Chult/Omu. For the past few weeks I've moved to Barkshield and I've honestly noticed a good bump in survivability, particularly when Soloing.
Honestly, thus far, I'd rather stick with Barkshield as I've actually seen a noticeable impact on my game play with it. Which is just my current opinion, though I do advocate moving away from Soulforge in general unless you PVP!
Another fun bonus, honestly a minor one, is the Earth Archon as Barkshield keeps you from falling below full health more often. Just something random that I find cool... lol