doesnt matter - he defended a post that had nothing to do with what i said in it. his argument had nothing to do with what i wrote at all. but he seems to think "balance" is suppose to sort itself out. but it doesnt: he has no math to prove it, where i have seen a couple ppl already proove with math that if u needed ur class - 1 class would always walk away with more profit at the end of the day. anyways. i said it like FOUR TIMESANGELKILLER. UR WASTING MY TIME. i have repeatedly said op was wrongly kicked because NO ONE MENTIONED IT WAS GREED. most of us go in assuming it greed runs now adays because anyone with expereince has accomodated to that rule. op - if he wants to avoid this situation again: should ask when joining if its greed or need if it is not mentioned. i not saying it his fault , but to avoid it he should ask next time - because yes the servers rule is greed runs now = its the most balance way to run dungeons and EVERYONE has a chance at EVERY epic items. why do u fail to see that it is more balanced and fair if everyone always have same chance to roll on somthing? = same value same gear same chance. u dont even need math to proove its balanced lol math only proves how need is not balanced.
SO ANGEL DO U READ MY POST?? STOP REPLYING TO ME IF U CANT READ. i said 4 times that op was wrongly kiked because no one mentioned it was greed+ if he wants to avoid that situation he should ask. it will solve the problem. u cant change people's behaviour - but u can change ur own. so no point in saying THEY WERE WRONG. cuz they arnt the one making a thread ; op is and now for future reference if he asks when entering
dude it only takes 30min of ur time to do a DD run (with key) at any time u log in. and the key works. idk what ur talking about.
the only known bug atm is DD key is bugged in SPELLPLAGUE. now everyone knows dont do spellplague with key. there no other dungeon that bugged. also u seem like a newbie to me. so u should listen to advice of other players. we have done multiple alt accounts. it gets easier to go the right path the 2nd time trust me - cuz we dont make the dumb mistakes. from pre 60 - ur right needing ur class gear isnt issue and no one in pt cares for that blue item anyway. but after 60 those purple are worth ad - if u sell that purple - chances are you can find a better peice that already BOP or buy a better stat + get a few enchants = better use of ad.
when its ur first time making a character u dont know the economy system and u waste ad in all wrong places .
like myself - my first char i made all enchants using the system tooltip.... i made my own enchants from lvl 3- up to vl 6 it would cost me about 40k ad with wards and potency marks. - u can buy lvl 6 for like 8k ad -.- so u see , new people make all these bad choices with ad. and it cost more to upgrade. so pay attention to experienced players logic about selling gear- u dont sell gear to the next newb. u sell gear to the rich <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> who is lazy and wants to make alts without doing dungeon delves. so it more profit always sell gear and use all the bind one. AGAIN THIS LOGIC IS FOR LVL 60 if ur not even lvl 60 yet, this thread not for you
I hear your argument but currently on both my chars above lvl 60 they only have certain items that are needed, oh and they are the expensive ones... so if i see it i'm gonna use it. If you want to wait to get that item because you value the 900k ad then that is your prerogative. To me I'd rather use the gear instead of having to wait but i guess i just value my time more then you do. I have done somethings that i won't in the future, refining enchants is one of those, but to me my BIS 4 piece set is worth more then a few r8's both personally and DPS wise. So feel free to sell everything in the hopes of finding it again but if i see it I'm wearing it.
MMO behavior has really gone downhill. It used to be this would get you blacklisted by the entire server. Now we have people defending it on forums.
In most MMOs you never blacklist people in pugs when they need what they can. You normally blacklist people when you agreed not to need and yet they still do. That's called ninja and deserved to be blacklisted.
People want others to greed, so everyone has a chance to roll on every piece of gear. I has no problem if everyone agrees with it. It's basically a system outside of the current system. I and many others actually think the current system does balance itself in terms of time vs AD gain ration. To those of who said I didn't have the math behind it, I had a simple example somewhere before in this thread, then you can keep arguing with different scenarios. All in all, At least part of the population don't buy into your all greed system you are trying to enforce. Thus, you can't force it by put yourself on moral high ground.
doesnt matter - he defended a post that had nothing to do with what i said in it. his argument had nothing to do with what i wrote at all. but he seems to think "balance" is suppose to sort itself out. but it doesnt: he has no math to prove it, where i have seen a couple ppl already proove with math that if u needed ur class - 1 class would always walk away with more profit at the end of the day. anyways. i said it like FOUR TIMESANGELKILLER. UR WASTING MY TIME. i have repeatedly said op was wrongly kicked because NO ONE MENTIONED IT WAS GREED. most of us go in assuming it greed runs now adays because anyone with expereince has accomodated to that rule. op - if he wants to avoid this situation again: should ask when joining if its greed or need if it is not mentioned. i not saying it his fault , but to avoid it he should ask next time - because yes the servers rule is greed runs now = its the most balance way to run dungeons and EVERYONE has a chance at EVERY epic items. why do u fail to see that it is more balanced and fair if everyone always have same chance to roll on somthing? = same value same gear same chance. u dont even need math to proove its balanced lol math only proves how need is not balanced.
SO ANGEL DO U READ MY POST?? STOP REPLYING TO ME IF U CANT READ. i said 4 times that op was wrongly kiked because no one mentioned it was greed+ if he wants to avoid that situation he should ask. it will solve the problem. u cant change people's behaviour - but u can change ur own. so no point in saying THEY WERE WRONG. cuz they arnt the one making a thread ; op is and now for future reference if he asks when entering
I don't look at names when I reply. I'm merely wasting my own time when I reply to your post. YOU are wasting YOUR OWN TIME when you reply to my post, or comment on my comments.
From now on I will avoid your post, since your time is so precious.
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
In most MMOs you never blacklist people in pugs when they need what they can. You normally blacklist people when you agreed not to need and yet they still do. That's called ninja and deserved to be blacklisted.
People want others to greed, so everyone has a chance to roll on every piece of gear. I has no problem if everyone agrees with it. It's basically a system outside of the current system. I and many others actually think the current system does balance itself in terms of time vs AD gain ration. To those of who said I didn't have the math behind it, I had a simple example somewhere before in this thread, then you can keep arguing with different scenarios. All in all, At least part of the population don't buy into your all greed system you are trying to enforce. Thus, you can't force it by put yourself on moral high ground.
No one trying to force you anything, you arguing a merit of a system, and i gave a clear example for even 4CW in a party at current prices the DC will be left behind..
No one preventing you to run all need, as long everyone agrees, same with all greed, the OP and his party didn't agreed on anything, had miscommunication and it ended here.
You argue that need will balance itself, i dont know the population numbers and your numbers are just made up... but from one CW to 4 in a party the DC will always be poorer for current AH prices, and you are almost assured to have one CW in a party (you yourself claim so)...
You claim, that CW will miss DD and wont be able to run vs DC and will balance with 0:1 runs ? then i ask if you ever saw CW queue dont pop to any dungeon during DD ? or perhaps they will just take two spots from the 3 DPS spots pull ? there are more dps spots than the mandatory.
And what moral high ground ?
People ask for the option to enforce so there will be no misunderstanding like the OP had. In example you join, it was voted, don't like the majorities decision, leave, or make all need group.
Do i think all need less fair and do not balance it self, yes i do as i said, if i have one DD per day to play and a CW has the same time, no matter how many runs i will do, and if i wont meet a single TR my whole gaming life , i will still be behind even if the other CW ill always have 2-1 other CW in a party.
What moral high ground has anything to do with it?
And btw, even if the CW will miss a run for every one the DC does (1:2) and always will have another CW with him in a party, he will still come up ahead and DC have mandatory spots, TRs dont.
dude it only takes 30min of ur time to do a DD run (with key) at any time u log in. and the key works. idk what ur talking about.
the only known bug atm is DD key is bugged in SPELLPLAGUE. now everyone knows dont do spellplague with key. there no other dungeon that bugged. also u seem like a newbie to me. so u should listen to advice of other players. we have done multiple alt accounts. it gets easier to go the right path the 2nd time trust me - cuz we dont make the dumb mistakes. from pre 60 - ur right needing ur class gear isnt issue and no one in pt cares for that blue item anyway. but after 60 those purple are worth ad - if u sell that purple - chances are you can find a better peice that already BOP or buy a better stat + get a few enchants = better use of ad.
when its ur first time making a character u dont know the economy system and u waste ad in all wrong places .
like myself - my first char i made all enchants using the system tooltip.... i made my own enchants from lvl 3- up to vl 6 it would cost me about 40k ad with wards and potency marks. - u can buy lvl 6 for like 8k ad -.- so u see , new people make all these bad choices with ad. and it cost more to upgrade. so pay attention to experienced players logic about selling gear- u dont sell gear to the next newb. u sell gear to the rich <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> who is lazy and wants to make alts without doing dungeon delves. so it more profit always sell gear and use all the bind one. AGAIN THIS LOGIC IS FOR LVL 60 if ur not even lvl 60 yet, this thread not for you
These are rough drop rates estimates observed from running 75+ dungeons, and observing all party members loot. The figures won't be exact, but it should be useful to players to get an idea of where it's best to farm for each item.
Tier 1 dungeon delve chests:
10% - drops the T1 set armor/weapon piece the in game description says (note each class has 3 sets)
40% - drops the other T1 ring/necklace/belt piece the in game description says
45 % - drops a random junk piece of purple loot - usually matching what the final boss can drop
5% - drop a random junk piece of blue loot
Tier 2 dungeon delve chests:
10% - drops the T2 set armor/weapon piece the in game description says (note each class has 3 sets)
20% - drops the other T2 ring/necklace/belt piece the in game description says
50% - drops a random T1 piece your class can use (armor, weapon or otherwise)
20% - drops a random usually junk purple from the endboss in the area
Tier 2.5 dungeon delve chest:
60% - drops a random T1 piece your class can use (armor, weapon or otherwise)
40% - drops a random T2 piece your class can use (armor, weapon or otherwise)
Note the chest will not contain any of the boss loot - no ancient quality gear.
Thus i will be using a boe if i need it, and not wait as you see the drops are not even close to guaranteed.
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
These are rough drop rates estimates observed from running 75+ dungeons, and observing all party members loot. The figures won't be exact, but it should be useful to players to get an idea of where it's best to farm for each item.
Tier 1 dungeon delve chests:
10% - drops the T1 set armor/weapon piece the in game description says (note each class has 3 sets)
40% - drops the other T1 ring/necklace/belt piece the in game description says
45 % - drops a random junk piece of purple loot - usually matching what the final boss can drop
5% - drop a random junk piece of blue loot
Tier 2 dungeon delve chests:
10% - drops the T2 set armor/weapon piece the in game description says (note each class has 3 sets)
20% - drops the other T2 ring/necklace/belt piece the in game description says
50% - drops a random T1 piece your class can use (armor, weapon or otherwise)
20% - drops a random usually junk purple from the endboss in the area
Tier 2.5 (Castle Never) dungeon delve chest:
60% - drops a random T1 piece your class can use (armor, weapon or otherwise)
40% - drops a random T2 piece your class can use (armor, weapon or otherwise)
Note the chest will not contain any of the boss loot - no ancient quality gear.
afaik This wiki page is before the DD chest had the choice option, it's not updated. (or even before mod 1)
For example It's every rare to get Armor for T1 in T2 (I tried to get that for DC)
No one trying to force you anything, you arguing a merit of a system, and i gave a clear example for even 4CW in a party at current prices the DC will be left behind..
No one preventing you to run all need, as long everyone agrees, same with all greed, the OP and his party didn't agreed on anything, had miscommunication and it ended here.
You argue that need will balance itself, i dont know the population numbers and your numbers are just made up... but from one CW to 4 in a party the DC will always be poorer for current AH prices, and you are almost assured to have one CW in a party (you yourself claim so)...
You claim, that CW will miss DD and wont be able to run vs DC and will balance with 0:1 runs ? then i ask if you ever saw CW queue dont pop to any dungeon during DD ? or perhaps they will just take two spots from the 3 DPS spots pull ? there are more dps spots than the mandatory.
And what moral high ground ?
People ask for the option to enforce so there will be no misunderstanding like the OP had. In example you join, it was voted, don't like the majorities decision, leave, or make all need group.
Do i think all need less fair and do not balance it self, yes i do as i said, if i have one DD per day to play and a CW has the same time, no matter how many runs i will do, and if i wont meet a single TR my whole gaming life , i will still be behind even if the other CW ill always have 2-1 other CW in a party.
What moral high ground has anything to do with it?
And btw, even if the CW will miss a run for every one the DC does (1:2) and always will have another CW with him in a party, he will still come up ahead and DC have mandatory spots, TRs dont.
1) People are not just asking for a new loot mode. I have no problem with an all greed loot mode. People are saying in any pug people should just roll greed or else they would vote to kick. That is forcing.
2) No one needs to agree on "all need" because need roll has the highest priority already. Doing "all greed", is asking people to give up their rights to roll need, which needs an agreement, whereas "all need" doesn't need any agreement, because you don't need anyone to give up anything to roll need.
3) I said "moral high ground" in regarding to a post saying "MMO behavior has really gone downhill". I'm simply saying nothing has gone downhill. People will roll need when they can and it's acceptable.
In most MMOs you never blacklist people in pugs when they need what they can. You normally blacklist people when you agreed not to need and yet they still do. That's called ninja and deserved to be blacklisted.
People want others to greed, so everyone has a chance to roll on every piece of gear. I has no problem if everyone agrees with it. It's basically a system outside of the current system. I and many others actually think the current system does balance itself in terms of time vs AD gain ration. To those of who said I didn't have the math behind it, I had a simple example somewhere before in this thread, then you can keep arguing with different scenarios. All in all, At least part of the population don't buy into your all greed system you are trying to enforce. Thus, you can't force it by put yourself on moral high ground.
The person I replied to was talking about rolling need to sell something. That's been a blacklist in every game I've played in the last ten years. If you are going to sell it that's always been greed. If it's boe that's always been a greed roll. People that do otherwise are ninjas.
afaik This wiki page is before the DD chest had the choice option, it's not updated. (or even before mod 1)
For example It's every rare to get Armor for T1 in T2 (I tried to get that for DC)
This page was last modified on 16 May 2014, at 15:02. and i have got t1 in a t2 just 2 days ago
The person I replied to was talking about rolling need to sell something. That's been a blacklist in every game I've played in the last ten years. If you are going to sell it that's always been greed. If it's boe that's always been a greed roll. People that do otherwise are ninjas.
I understand the point you were trying to make. However, I don't see a problem with it. Anyone can roll need to sell. If one roll need to sell and take away a piece of gear from someone who can really use it, then it can be discussed as a problem. The discussion in this post don't even include people actually need the gears for use in the conversion. It's all about sell, whether it's all greed, or simply roll need, it's all about AD. And what's the difference at all, especially moral difference in rolling greed and rolling need. Again I emphasize, everyone can roll need. I can argue with people complaining about fair chances of rolling need. But needing to sell, in this game, shouldn't even make an argument. Everyone can, and should feel free to do it.
I understand the point you were trying to make. However, I don't see a problem with it. Anyone can roll need to sell. If one roll need to sell and take away a piece of gear from someone who can really use it, then it can be discussed as a problem. The discussion in this post don't even include people actually need the gears for use in the conversion. It's all about sell, whether it's all greed, or simply roll need, it's all about AD. And what's the difference at all, especially moral difference in rolling greed and rolling need. Again I emphasize, everyone can roll need. I can argue with people complaining about fair chances of rolling need. But needing to sell, in this game, shouldn't even make an argument. Everyone can, and should feel free to do it.
You honestly don't get it. That is the entirety of my point and what the problem is. The fact that you don't see the problem with that is the problem. It is where the decline in decency comes from.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
You honestly don't get it. That is the entirety of my point and what the problem is. The fact that you don't see the problem with that is the problem. It is where the decline in decency comes from.
People doing X is a problem because I say so, even tho everyone has a fair chance of doing X. You don't see it being a problem then you have a problem.
X being whatever.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
I guess what you are missing is that need rolls in Neverwinter are disabled for anything not for your class, and the vast majority of valuable boss drops are class-specific gear. That's why need rolling to sell is such a major grievance. Not everyone in the party has the same options.
People doing X is a problem because I say so, even tho everyone has a fair chance of doing X. You don't see it being a problem then you have a problem.
X being whatever.
Because you can't roll need on every item. Thus you don't have a fair chance. Thus when someone does roll need on a boe they are a ninja. Now if you are new, and want to equip it, and you talk to the group first, and the group is ok with it, and you equip it in front of the group, I don't have an issue. But you have no common courtesy to defend ninjas and you don't see the problem. That's a big problem with gamers now as oppossed to most when mmo's were newer. It's gross narcissism on your part.
I guess what you are missing is that need rolls in Neverwinter are disabled for anything not for your class, and the vast majority of valuable boss drops are class-specific gear. That's why need rolling to sell is such a major grievance. Not everyone in the party has the same options.
Of course I know you can only roll need on your own class gear. There's already randomness behind what drops, why make it more random by everyone rolling greed?
Because you can't roll need on every item. Thus you don't have a fair chance. Thus when someone does roll need on a boe they are a ninja. Now if you are new, and want to equip it, and you talk to the group first, and the group is ok with it, and you equip it in front of the group, I don't have an issue. But you have no common courtesy to defend ninjas and you don't see the problem. That's a big problem with gamers now as oppossed to most when mmo's were newer. It's gross narcissism on your part.
I understand different class items have different value, if that is your argument about not everyone can roll everything. I've already posted some math about more popular classes would have lower chance of winning gear in the bigger picture, when everyone rolls need. Sure you can disagree or argue about it. However, you can't just say it's wrong (getting blacklisted means did something wrong I suppose?) rolling need to sell.
The difference in class popularity and thus gear value is caused by a whole different issue, namely class balancing, which should be fixed itself, not the looting system and how people roll.
Let's just agree to disagree. And give cryptic some ideas to help this.
1. Don't allow kicking after defeating boss, and while the loot is being rolled on/distributed.
2. The greed only option for the loot master option. Would help tremendously proven by this thread.
Two simple ideas. Do it Cryptic, we gave you 15 pages of nonsense to come up with those 2 things.
Let's just agree to disagree. And give cryptic some ideas to help this.
1. Don't allow kicking after defeating boss, and while the loot is being rolled on/distributed.
2. The greed only option for the loot master option. Would help tremendously proven by this thread.
Two simple ideas. Do it Cryptic, we gave you 15 pages of nonsense to come up with those 2 things.
Just a slight fix , you need to make it so people can't be kicked DURING or after the boss and while the loot table is still up otherwise azzhats would just wait till the boss has a small slither of HP left and kick people.
Let's just agree to disagree. And give cryptic some ideas to help this.
1. Don't allow kicking after defeating boss, and while the loot is being rolled on/distributed.
2. The greed only option for the loot master option. Would help tremendously proven by this thread.
Two simple ideas. Do it Cryptic, we gave you 15 pages of nonsense to come up with those 2 things.
Those, and maybe need more than 2 people to kick someone?
Thats great for the people who have time to wait for DD but it doesn't always come around. Some times i can only do 1 DD run a week so what thats the only time your allowed to use pieces. The people who believe that everyone should only sell BoE gear and just get all their gear from DD have way to much time to play this game. If a piece drops weather is BoP or BoE if its an upgrade i'm gonna wear it regardless, and who are you to tell others what to do with their items. These people who only sell BoP's care about one thing and one thing only watching their millions of AD go up, That is were all this time is more valuable blah blah blah bs, comes from is the people who when pieces drop only see $$ where as the average player just wants to upgrade their gear. I think its kinda sad that so many people only care about how much online wealth they acquire, and could care less about other players in the game. Because as stated by many in this thread, the only way their gonna help others new to dungeons is if their gonna get something out of it. For all the people who are gonna say that they deserve to get something out of it, how about the knowledge that they helped some others, i know it may be new to some of you but that is way more valuable then any amount of AD.
like i said you really don't play the game enough to have an opinion worth even 2 cents. there's a free dungeon key once per day, and i somehow sense that you rarely use this up am i correct? extra keys are 5000 AD if you do use it up.
like i said you really don't play the game enough to have an opinion worth even 2 cents. there's a free dungeon key once per day, and i somehow sense that you rarely use this up am i correct? extra keys are 5000 AD if you do use it up.
I use a key on every dungeon i do, its only a 10% chance though.
Why you assume everyone buys Armor sets ?
I've never bought any set part on any char, and never will while i can get it with one DD hour from DD chest. Even if i can do few DDs per week, i will finish it in few weeks and it is still much faster than the old 9k GS is very high days (before m1) when it took wipe after wipe to finish a run.
But even so, the armor set is negligeble in the equpment part, Perfect vorpal costs a bit much and costs the same for everyone. Upgrading companions costs the same. Enchants cost the same..
So you showing that the least important part is cheaper.. the part that most people can see is not worth buying or binding.
While 90% of the costs are the same.
I'm not assuming that armor is all that people buy, but there are other ways to earn ADs besides what you get by selling drops (and if you can sell the drops, then someone is certainly buying gear).
But still, the need button exists, and unless the rest of the group makes it known that it's a greed run, then people might just, wonder of wonders, use the button to upgrade their class gear.
Maybe they should just make all of that gear BoP.
It might bring the Zen exchange into line somewhat (at least for a time) and people wouldn't see class gear for some other class as "theirs"".
Loot ninjas are frowned upon in other games, and people request ways to keep them from taking gear that "belongs" to a different class.
Here, they added that feature, but then made everything BoE so any use of the need button is now being called "ninja" behavior.
It's crazy.
The market is flooded with ADs, the exchange is at 500 and isn't going anywhere, and people are complaining about a Control Wizard or whatever choosing need on gear for their own class because they can't then sell that gear for another few ADs.
But still, and I thought that I was clear the first time, but to repeat myself: If a bunch of people want to have a "greed run" then that is their choice, and if someone doesn't want to go along, that is their choice as well.
But the group needs to make that clear before they go crying about someone hitting need on an item, and if Cryptic can put in an option to disable the need button, then all the better for everyone.
Didn't even bother to read post page 3, all I Can see are suggestions how to screw over others and/or make more profit yourself. This system is realy giving you everything and beyond. Endgame items that aren't BoP, you can ding 60 and gear yourself completely. And you complain about greed. Yeah, greed is a good choice of words. 99% of random runs are 5 greedy people that are going there to try and make some AD, while they have a gear score that far outclasses that place. So you can be **** sure they aren't gonna let some greenie they are carrying to the chest anyway to get their loot. Just because the game lets you roll need, doesn't mean the party will. The OP just got greedy, thought he can swipe it from 4 other ppl, and he got slapped for it. If someone REALY wants a fix, there is only 1 way to do it: all drops are BoA, as it realy should be, or even BoP. I am sure it will happen eventualy, they just dont want to hit the community hard again so soon after they made keys BoA. If you want to gear up, cough up the AD and buy your stuff off AH. The votekick is as it should be, nobody realy kicks out of spite, and you can report them if a 4 man premade kicks you after final boss loot.
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obsiddiaMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,025Arc User
edited July 2014
The fix has to be in the mechanics of the game. Certain points in the run should disable the voting.
If the party has a legitimate grief they can wait. If the boss is dead, the vote is pure cheating.
Reporting it does nothing. Pre-formed partial groups can do whatever they like,
they can't get in trouble, and you're still out the item that you spent a half
hour or so earning.
Did you really think anyone could steal the power of the god of thieves?
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vinceent1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,264Arc User
edited July 2014
dear apophis@apophis111. you made me kick out after you press need to prevent me i made a vote kick for you? you pathetic worm ....
Comments
SO ANGEL DO U READ MY POST?? STOP REPLYING TO ME IF U CANT READ. i said 4 times that op was wrongly kiked because no one mentioned it was greed+ if he wants to avoid that situation he should ask. it will solve the problem. u cant change people's behaviour - but u can change ur own. so no point in saying THEY WERE WRONG. cuz they arnt the one making a thread ; op is and now for future reference if he asks when entering
In most MMOs you never blacklist people in pugs when they need what they can. You normally blacklist people when you agreed not to need and yet they still do. That's called ninja and deserved to be blacklisted.
People want others to greed, so everyone has a chance to roll on every piece of gear. I has no problem if everyone agrees with it. It's basically a system outside of the current system. I and many others actually think the current system does balance itself in terms of time vs AD gain ration. To those of who said I didn't have the math behind it, I had a simple example somewhere before in this thread, then you can keep arguing with different scenarios. All in all, At least part of the population don't buy into your all greed system you are trying to enforce. Thus, you can't force it by put yourself on moral high ground.
I don't look at names when I reply. I'm merely wasting my own time when I reply to your post. YOU are wasting YOUR OWN TIME when you reply to my post, or comment on my comments.
From now on I will avoid your post, since your time is so precious.
No one trying to force you anything, you arguing a merit of a system, and i gave a clear example for even 4CW in a party at current prices the DC will be left behind..
No one preventing you to run all need, as long everyone agrees, same with all greed, the OP and his party didn't agreed on anything, had miscommunication and it ended here.
You argue that need will balance itself, i dont know the population numbers and your numbers are just made up... but from one CW to 4 in a party the DC will always be poorer for current AH prices, and you are almost assured to have one CW in a party (you yourself claim so)...
You claim, that CW will miss DD and wont be able to run vs DC and will balance with 0:1 runs ? then i ask if you ever saw CW queue dont pop to any dungeon during DD ? or perhaps they will just take two spots from the 3 DPS spots pull ? there are more dps spots than the mandatory.
And what moral high ground ?
People ask for the option to enforce so there will be no misunderstanding like the OP had. In example you join, it was voted, don't like the majorities decision, leave, or make all need group.
Do i think all need less fair and do not balance it self, yes i do as i said, if i have one DD per day to play and a CW has the same time, no matter how many runs i will do, and if i wont meet a single TR my whole gaming life , i will still be behind even if the other CW ill always have 2-1 other CW in a party.
What moral high ground has anything to do with it?
And btw, even if the CW will miss a run for every one the DC does (1:2) and always will have another CW with him in a party, he will still come up ahead and DC have mandatory spots, TRs dont.
Tier 1 dungeon delve chests:
10% - drops the T1 set armor/weapon piece the in game description says (note each class has 3 sets)
40% - drops the other T1 ring/necklace/belt piece the in game description says
45 % - drops a random junk piece of purple loot - usually matching what the final boss can drop
5% - drop a random junk piece of blue loot
Tier 2 dungeon delve chests:
10% - drops the T2 set armor/weapon piece the in game description says (note each class has 3 sets)
20% - drops the other T2 ring/necklace/belt piece the in game description says
50% - drops a random T1 piece your class can use (armor, weapon or otherwise)
20% - drops a random usually junk purple from the endboss in the area
Tier 2.5 dungeon delve chest:
60% - drops a random T1 piece your class can use (armor, weapon or otherwise)
40% - drops a random T2 piece your class can use (armor, weapon or otherwise)
Note the chest will not contain any of the boss loot - no ancient quality gear.
Thus i will be using a boe if i need it, and not wait as you see the drops are not even close to guaranteed.
afaik This wiki page is before the DD chest had the choice option, it's not updated. (or even before mod 1)
For example It's every rare to get Armor for T1 in T2 (I tried to get that for DC)
1) People are not just asking for a new loot mode. I have no problem with an all greed loot mode. People are saying in any pug people should just roll greed or else they would vote to kick. That is forcing.
2) No one needs to agree on "all need" because need roll has the highest priority already. Doing "all greed", is asking people to give up their rights to roll need, which needs an agreement, whereas "all need" doesn't need any agreement, because you don't need anyone to give up anything to roll need.
3) I said "moral high ground" in regarding to a post saying "MMO behavior has really gone downhill". I'm simply saying nothing has gone downhill. People will roll need when they can and it's acceptable.
You are misinterpreting a lot of my comments.
The person I replied to was talking about rolling need to sell something. That's been a blacklist in every game I've played in the last ten years. If you are going to sell it that's always been greed. If it's boe that's always been a greed roll. People that do otherwise are ninjas.
I understand the point you were trying to make. However, I don't see a problem with it. Anyone can roll need to sell. If one roll need to sell and take away a piece of gear from someone who can really use it, then it can be discussed as a problem. The discussion in this post don't even include people actually need the gears for use in the conversion. It's all about sell, whether it's all greed, or simply roll need, it's all about AD. And what's the difference at all, especially moral difference in rolling greed and rolling need. Again I emphasize, everyone can roll need. I can argue with people complaining about fair chances of rolling need. But needing to sell, in this game, shouldn't even make an argument. Everyone can, and should feel free to do it.
I got all excited seeing boots in FH last week and then realized they were the T1 choice. Troll chest.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
People doing X is a problem because I say so, even tho everyone has a fair chance of doing X. You don't see it being a problem then you have a problem.
X being whatever.
I guess what you are missing is that need rolls in Neverwinter are disabled for anything not for your class, and the vast majority of valuable boss drops are class-specific gear. That's why need rolling to sell is such a major grievance. Not everyone in the party has the same options.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Of course I know you can only roll need on your own class gear. There's already randomness behind what drops, why make it more random by everyone rolling greed?
I understand different class items have different value, if that is your argument about not everyone can roll everything. I've already posted some math about more popular classes would have lower chance of winning gear in the bigger picture, when everyone rolls need. Sure you can disagree or argue about it. However, you can't just say it's wrong (getting blacklisted means did something wrong I suppose?) rolling need to sell.
The difference in class popularity and thus gear value is caused by a whole different issue, namely class balancing, which should be fixed itself, not the looting system and how people roll.
Let's just agree to disagree. And give cryptic some ideas to help this.
1. Don't allow kicking after defeating boss, and while the loot is being rolled on/distributed.
2. The greed only option for the loot master option. Would help tremendously proven by this thread.
Two simple ideas. Do it Cryptic, we gave you 15 pages of nonsense to come up with those 2 things.
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
Just a slight fix , you need to make it so people can't be kicked DURING or after the boss and while the loot table is still up otherwise azzhats would just wait till the boss has a small slither of HP left and kick people.
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
Those, and maybe need more than 2 people to kick someone?
like i said you really don't play the game enough to have an opinion worth even 2 cents. there's a free dungeon key once per day, and i somehow sense that you rarely use this up am i correct? extra keys are 5000 AD if you do use it up.
I'm not assuming that armor is all that people buy, but there are other ways to earn ADs besides what you get by selling drops (and if you can sell the drops, then someone is certainly buying gear).
But still, the need button exists, and unless the rest of the group makes it known that it's a greed run, then people might just, wonder of wonders, use the button to upgrade their class gear.
Maybe they should just make all of that gear BoP.
It might bring the Zen exchange into line somewhat (at least for a time) and people wouldn't see class gear for some other class as "theirs"".
Loot ninjas are frowned upon in other games, and people request ways to keep them from taking gear that "belongs" to a different class.
Here, they added that feature, but then made everything BoE so any use of the need button is now being called "ninja" behavior.
It's crazy.
The market is flooded with ADs, the exchange is at 500 and isn't going anywhere, and people are complaining about a Control Wizard or whatever choosing need on gear for their own class because they can't then sell that gear for another few ADs.
But still, and I thought that I was clear the first time, but to repeat myself: If a bunch of people want to have a "greed run" then that is their choice, and if someone doesn't want to go along, that is their choice as well.
But the group needs to make that clear before they go crying about someone hitting need on an item, and if Cryptic can put in an option to disable the need button, then all the better for everyone.
If the party has a legitimate grief they can wait. If the boss is dead, the vote is pure cheating.
Reporting it does nothing. Pre-formed partial groups can do whatever they like,
they can't get in trouble, and you're still out the item that you spent a half
hour or so earning.
You aren't allowed to name and shame on this forum.