I'm one of those people who insist on making it clear at the beginning of every run that it is a greed run. I would be the first person to kick other players if they choose need after it has been made clear that it is a greed run. I do that mostly for the sake of simplicity. However, I hate that system, and let me explain why:
1. Need run - Let's assume there's five players in a party, and each of them is of different class. There are six types of classes in total, for the time being. An item drops. Since there are six classes, let's assume the chance of dropping an item for your class is 16.6% (100% chance of dropping an item / 6 classes = 16.6%), which means that there is 16.6% chance that you will be able to choose need, and ultimately get the item. There is also a chance of 16.6% that an item will be of sixth class which is not present in the party, so everyone can choose only greed (assuming no one wants to pass), so when you divide that 16.6% by 5, you get another 3.3% chance of getting an item. When you add that 3.3% chance to your 16.6% chance of choosing need, you have a total of 20% chance of getting an item.
2. Greed run - Let's assume there's five players in a party. An item drops, but this time everyone chooses greed, which means that everyone has a 20% chance of getting that item. Plain and simple.
So, they are basically the same thing, right? Wrong. We assumed that all classes have equal chance of getting an item drop for their own class, but we all know that is not the case, at least not in some dungeons, or at some bosses. Truth to be told, I would still prefer need run over the greed run, since I wouldn't have to worry about dishonest people and kicking from the party or choosing need after everyone has already chosen greed, yet I still insist on greed runs, since I neither have the time nor the will to explain all of this to every single person. However, people can still be kicked in a need run, so the problem is still not solved, only minimized.
So, what's the solution to this mess?
There are few possible solutions, and one of them is already present - Round Robin. Everyone has the same 20% chance of getting an item, and there's the end to that story. It eliminates the whole need/greed issue.
The only thing I would like to change, however, is the very thing most of you have been discussing here - disabling the option to kick during and after the boss fights for a short period of time (the period should be the same as the one on the countdown meter), as well as implementing a system which will force the party to agree on loot system before the run begins, and not leaving it to the will of randomly picked leader (which is an issue of it's own).
How do you figure that? Most of the times your group doesn't consist of 1 of each class, so many times items will drop that everyone can only greed on, and it happens alot. What do you need the item for if its not for you just profit from. You never know if that person will actually keep the item to have say a different gear setup all you care about is selling it to get ur AD. The only exception would be completely geared people but you hardly see any of those most people have a lot of things to upgrade or work on. Just because you sell every items that drops because your so addicted to seeing your wealth go up doesn't mean everyone else is.
People that need on everything think that their time is worth more than the rest.
You are in a random match, all 5 signed up for a random chance at the gear.
Regardless of whether they need it or not , they spent the same amount of time grinding the dungeon and deserve the same chance at the payoff, even if it is only a few k unrefined AD.
You thinking that simply because your classes equip dropped makes you entitled to it above the other 4 in group is greedy.
If you want to grind gear , don't do it in a PUG. Get a group and make sure your the only one of your class that needs the gear.
Don't hop in a pug match and start needing stuff and not expected to get booted. They are all there for the same thing as you.
People that need on everything think that their time is worth more than the rest.
You are in a random match, all 5 signed up for a random chance at the gear.
Regardless of whether they need it or not , they spent the same amount of time grinding the dungeon and deserve the same chance at the payoff, even if it is only a few k unrefined AD.
You thinking that simply because your classes equip dropped makes you entitled to it above the other 4 in group is greedy.
If you want to grind gear , don't do it in a PUG. Get a group and make sure your the only one of your class that needs the gear.
Don't hop in a pug match and start needing stuff and not expected to get booted. They are all there for the same thing as you.
The loot system does entitle him. The loot system that does not is not called "greed", but Round Robin.
The loot system does entitle him. The loot system that does not is not called "greed", but Round Robin.
That makes no sense in this context, since the topic is about someone who 'needs' and gets booted from dungeon.
Saying the loot system entitles him in no way changes the fact that he will get booted for 'need'ing things.
"need"ing things simply means you value your time over the groups time, or fairness. as such you deserve to get the boot.
Also, how well does 'round robin' work in dungeons with one good drop?
So, what's the solution to this mess?
There are few possible solutions, and one of them is already present - Round Robin. Everyone has the same 20% chance of getting an item, and there's the end to that story. It eliminates the whole need/greed issue.
The only thing I would like to change, however, is the very thing most of you have been discussing here - disabling the option to kick during and after the boss fights for a short period of time (the period should be the same as the one on the countdown meter), as well as implementing a system which will force the party to agree on loot system before the run begins, and not leaving it to the will of randomly picked leader (which is an issue of it's own).
Agreed, and Round Robin is the perfect solution, it just the AD hoarders are to lazy to pick up their own loot.
That makes no sense in this context, since the topic is about someone who 'needs' and gets booted from dungeon.
Saying the loot system entitles him in no way changes the fact that he will get booted for 'need'ing things.
"need"ing things simply means you value your time over the groups time, or fairness. as such you deserve to get the boot.
Also, how well does 'round robin' work in dungeons with one good drop?
ROFL, the next thing you whiners will be complaing about it makeing it so the DEVS give out a equal # of items per class per dungeon. I guess this must be the first game you've ever played with random drops. Go play another MMO those things happen all the time, its nothing new to do a run and have nothing for your class drop, but then you might have a run where all your class pieces drop that's just the luck of the run. If you think its unfair your playing the wrong genre of game!
Actually i got a solution make the results blind. Then if people want Greed runs they do Round Robin in fear of people needing and them not knowing about it, and that would significantly reduce the amount of people being kicked cuz they don't understand why if they need the item their unable to get it cuz someone wants to sell it for a profit.
Agreed, and Round Robin is the perfect solution, it just the AD hoarders are to lazy to pick up their own loot.
How is round robin a good solution?
You have to grind 5 dungeons to get a chance at some gear?
Do you leave after you get your gear and let the other people in group grind their gear alone or do you stick it out for 5 dungeons to get em all that gear?
Hitting "Greed" solves it.
Everyone gets a fair chance at the payoff for the dungeon.
Your whole argument is that people who vote "greed" and give everyone the same chance at the item are being greedy because you are the one that needs it. Bad argument is bad.
You guys go ahead and keep hitting need in dungeons and getting kicked.
Keep starting threads about how your feelings are hurt because you ninja'd the gear at the end of the dungeon and now nobody wants to play with you.
I'll leave it to someone else to explain why people don't want to play with you in dungeons.
To which you'll reply "but i needed it and he didn't" never getting the point that noone cares whether you need it as little as you care whether they need it.
I'm done with the subject, but word of advice. Stop hitting "need" because as much as you may feel like you are 'winning' this thread...it will do nothing to keep you from getting kicked from dungeons and trolled in zone chat as a greedy ninja.
Actually i got a solution make the results blind. Then if people want Greed runs they do Round Robin in fear of people needing and them not knowing about it, and that would significantly reduce the amount of people being kicked cuz they don't understand why if they need the item their unable to get it cuz someone wants to sell it for a profit.
OK i said i was done, but let me point this out to you here....
How is choosing "round robin" to give people a random chance at item any different from choosing "greed" to give all people a random chance at the item?
Aside from all 5 people getting a chance at EVERY drop when you hit greed...
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
edited July 2014
I dont get the arguing anyways.. all I know if Im running a dungeon and its party leader clearly stated greed, that is what you agree to.
All legit runs usually = greed, that is how it rolls.
LFG is up for grabs, if you want to need, join a non greed run and roll need I guess.
THE probability that a item drops that is for your class and actual worth value is about 10%. Items that are under 15k for sale in the auction house ARE not need items to start with, anyone can buy them at anytime for less then 1 days worth of grind.
This clearly leaves a VERY small and select # of items, certain CW, HR and GWF items, HP helmet that are worth anything.
The rest of it, isnt worth much of all, those items are not needed either, by stating you need a item is ridiculous if its already in the AH less then 15k. Im not a super rich player either, but come on, roll a couple toons, do leadership , do GG, Dom and a few skirms and you can clear 15k easily in one day, at least 10k .. 10k should be nothing for all players, even newish ones who learn the ropes after 4 weeks give or take.
I have no issues with poeple rolling greed on every single item in the game, EVERY t2 item will eventually come up in your box. There is nothing you "need" you are just clearly stating your TIME is more valuable then everyone elses when you do this.
There should be a GREED or NEED all option in the game for those of us who wish to run that way.
How is round robin a good solution?
You have to grind 5 dungeons to get a chance at some gear?
Do you leave after you get your gear and let the other people in group grind their gear alone or do you stick it out for 5 dungeons to get em all that gear?
Hitting "Greed" solves it.
Everyone gets a fair chance at the payoff for the dungeon.
Your whole argument is that people who vote "greed" and give everyone the same chance at the item are being greedy because you are the one that needs it. Bad argument is bad.
You guys go ahead and keep hitting need in dungeons and getting kicked.
Keep starting threads about how your feelings are hurt because you ninja'd the gear at the end of the dungeon and now nobody wants to play with you.
I'll leave it to someone else to explain why people don't want to play with you in dungeons.
To which you'll reply "but i needed it and he didn't" never getting the point that noone cares whether you need it as little as you care whether they need it.
I'm done with the subject, but word of advice. Stop hitting "need" because as much as you may feel like you are 'winning' this thread...it will do nothing to keep you from getting kicked from dungeons and trolled in zone chat as a greedy ninja.
LOL i've never been kicked from any dungeons and i always need, if you want to Greed only do a round robin i don't understand why that drop mode is so hard for you to use, or maybe you aren't a skilled enough player to figure out how to set it, i don't know but thats only reason i can think of that would cause you to avoid it, that or you are just so obsessed you have to see what drops. I play for the enjoyment not just to see how much AD i made. There have been plenty of runs where i didn't get a single peice but do i care or think that they think their time is more important.. get over urselves.
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
LOL i've never been kicked from any dungeons and i always need, if you want to Greed only do a round robin i don't understand why that drop mode is so hard for you to use, or maybe you aren't a skilled enough player to figure out how to set it, i don't know but thats only reason i can think of that would cause you to avoid it, that or you are just so obsessed you have to see what drops.
you clearly dont run legit then. a couple of needs wouldve asked you to stop, if you didnt it wouldve been a vote kick and announcement in channel.
How is round robin a good solution?
You have to grind 5 dungeons to get a chance at some gear?
Do you leave after you get your gear and let the other people in group grind their gear alone or do you stick it out for 5 dungeons to get em all that gear?
Hitting "Greed" solves it.
Everyone gets a fair chance at the payoff for the dungeon.
Your whole argument is that people who vote "greed" and give everyone the same chance at the item are being greedy because you are the one that needs it. Bad argument is bad.
You guys go ahead and keep hitting need in dungeons and getting kicked.
Keep starting threads about how your feelings are hurt because you ninja'd the gear at the end of the dungeon and now nobody wants to play with you.
I'll leave it to someone else to explain why people don't want to play with you in dungeons.
To which you'll reply "but i needed it and he didn't" never getting the point that noone cares whether you need it as little as you care whether they need it.
I'm done with the subject, but word of advice. Stop hitting "need" because as much as you may feel like you are 'winning' this thread...it will do nothing to keep you from getting kicked from dungeons and trolled in zone chat as a greedy ninja.
If you read the first post I wrote on this topic, you would know that I insist on greed runs for the sake of simplicity and kick people that choose need. I couldn't have stated that more clearly.
The thing that you couldn't understand, however, is that I think that system is a mess, and that there is a better solution. And no, it is not an offtopic, it is a spot on discussion, which you can't seem to grasp.
OK i said i was done, but let me point this out to you here....
How is choosing "round robin" to give people a random chance at item any different from choosing "greed" to give all people a random chance at the item?
Aside from all 5 people getting a chance at EVERY drop when you hit greed...
Why feel the need to do that when the game has already created a way for that to happen, forcing people to greed instead is just a waist of time. Unless you enjoy kicking ^^
Why feel the need to do that when the game has already created a way for that to happen, forcing people to greed instead is just a waist of time. Unless you enjoy kicking ^^
Exactly. Round Robin offers everyone the same chance to win an item, same as everyone choosing "greed". It is even better, because it eliminates the need to force "greed".
So only greed runs are legit... that made me chuckle good one.
You do realize that legit is a chat channel used by almost all of the decent players in this game? Most skilled players don't use lfg, they use legit. "legit" isn't being used as a synonym for "legal" in this instance.
yep i joined that channel but thx for the PSA, most time i do runs with friends so we only need 1-2 more and just lfg it, although the legit channel has nothing to do with GREED runs its not a greed only channel
what i read here. is you have the expereicned players versus the noobs. the noobs dont understand how to run greed dungeons past lvl 60. when i was a fresh lvl 60, i did not know this system either, and i indeed did roll need on my first FC run. the guys were nice enough not to kick me, and explained to me that after level 60, most dungeons run - people greed. why? ok. ill explain since no one has explained it yet.
even if the logic that if u always NEED - ull come out at about the same chance as everyone to get an item. the problem isnt that u have roughly 16 percent chance of a item for ur class dropping - the problem is CW and GWF and HR gear are higher value gear. if u run a DK run - gwf helm can sell for 900k ad!!! (that same helm can be aquired by doing Dungeon delves run in T2 dungeons (on free chest.)
so if someone NEEDs that item, thier stupid ^^ that item should be sold for all that ad and just grind t2 chest.
now back to my topic - the fact that some items are worth more means the chance to profit from items isnt the same as everyone unless EVERYONE HITS GREED. because honestly u make more profit selling items then wearing them.
now this idea od greed runs seems foreign to noobs. but u will quickly catch up with the experienced players. the best gear set for your class out there - usally is from dungeon delves chest anyway. so theres no need for you to be a greedy and NEED items u dont NEED.
now befor ei end this, i want to make it clear again. GREED runs is a default setting of dungeon FOR EXPERIENCED PLAYERS. pre 60 - everyone needs and thats fine cuz ur leveling up and all gear is blue and worthless anyway.
but once u reach that point where ur running with experienced players. dont make the community hate you and block you. play along with greed runs. if u dont like that. make ur own pts of NEED RUNS. or join need runs.
and about the OP. the fact he got kicked even tho it wasnt mentioned it was GREED RUN. makes the person who kicked him in the wrong. if no one specified its greed run - and someone needs - u warn them that this is greed and that next run is that way. if u forgot to say it (i do somtimes) then it ur fault. also if i enter a pt that wasnt stated I ASK IS THIS NEED OR GREED. simple. communication is key
PS: FC has <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> items worth barely anything anyway. it was silly to kick a person without explaining it to them - or stating it was greed in first place. and theres a huge difference between a NINJA and ignorance. op seemed ignorant that his action was selfish. a ninja knows - they wait till everyone hits greed. then hits the need button last to be 100% sure they get the item without getting kicked (they know they can get kicked for needing on a GREED RUN - NINJA- VERSUS IGNORANCE). they know they are doing it ive caught a few trying to pull it off. usally its a class item for them that drops (worth alot of ad) and everyone greed. (if it not my class) i wait for them to greed... if i see they are out waiting me... i type GREED. and if he still dont click it and timer almost out - i kick. that way u get rid of ninjas again ninjas and ignorance - not the same thing
I agree with you, however, all of that has already been said. I presented the pros and cons of both options, and came with a conclusion that Round Robin should be the ultimate solution for those problems, yet it seems like no one is getting my point. I'm starting to think that people actually don't know about multiple loot systems.
no an ultimate option would allow EVERYONE of every class to be able to click need. ofc this could be exploited at last minute - so this NEED OPTION for everyone should be modified at the START of the dungeon. before or 5min in - that way ppl have a chance to leave if this wasnt planned. With a need option available to everyone - we could disable kicking AFTER BOSS FIGHTS or before, since we are no longer concerned of ninjas. the problem the experienced community is encountering is ninja looters. often mistaken by simple ignorant newbie players who just need to be taught. but with that new roll system even newbies wouldnt cause a problem in terms of rolling the wrong command.
and u did not mention that the reason is - different class drops are worth more ad then others. this is why just needing ur own class isnt the same chance as loot as everyone. otherwise only GWF would profit hugely. and GF would always get low priced ad drops
and u did not mention that the reason is - different class drops are worth more ad then others. this is why just needing ur own class isnt the same chance as loot as everyone. otherwise only GWF would profit hugely. and GF would always get low priced ad drops
Honestly, I did not take that into the account, since I didn't thought about that factor. Still, read more about Round Robin. It offers everyone 20% chance.
Honestly, I did not take that into the account, since I didn't thought about that factor. Still, read more about Round Robin. It offers everyone 20% chance.
Problem is that their are 1-3 item drops per dungeon 1-3 bosses. Only one of those bosses has a low drop rate of a good item, and if I'm not mistaken more than just purples will take the turn in the round. Not a good solution.
edit*
I should note that I haven't used rr in this game just in others and I'm basing my information on that.
Ok to be fair, ive never used round robin due to it's ingame description - it says the drop takes turns. which i assumed meant there will be a take of turns such as : person1, person 2, person 3 then repeat that sequence. if its a sequence then theres a problem - if u just rolled a item prior to boss fight - then you know u have 0% chance to be on the roll for the boss fight drop - then why stay for boss fight? If i am wrong, then can u explain how it works? other then saying (same 20 % chance) that doesnt really say how the system works
PS: mabe this can be an alternative - but a much better loot option would be giving need to all. that way u can pass on stuff still. i dont actually want to have 20% OF ALL LOOTS just the boss fight ones really
Exactly. Round Robin offers everyone the same chance to win an item, same as everyone choosing "greed". It is even better, because it eliminates the need to force "greed".
No it doesn't, you get turns at items.
Not everyone has a chance at every item.
even if the logic that if u always NEED - ull come out at about the same chance as everyone to get an item. the problem isnt that u have roughly 16 percent chance of a item for ur class dropping - the problem is CW and GWF and HR gear are higher value gear. if u run a DK run - gwf helm can sell for 900k ad!!! (that same helm can be aquired by doing Dungeon delves run in T2 dungeons (on free chest.)
so if someone NEEDs that item, thier stupid ^^ that item should be sold for all that ad and just grind t2 chest.
now back to my topic - the fact that some items are worth more means the chance to profit from items isnt the same as everyone unless EVERYONE HITS GREED. because honestly u make more profit selling items then wearing them.
now this idea od greed runs seems foreign to noobs. but u will quickly catch up with the experienced players. the best gear set for your class out there - usally is from dungeon delves chest anyway. so theres no need for you to be a greedy and NEED items u dont NEED.
now befor ei end this, i want to make it clear again. GREED runs is a default setting of dungeon FOR EXPERIENCED PLAYERS. pre 60 - everyone needs and thats fine cuz ur leveling up and all gear is blue and worthless anyway.
but once u reach that point where ur running with experienced players. dont make the community hate you and block you. play along with greed runs. if u dont like that. make ur own pts of NEED RUNS. or join need runs.
and about the OP. the fact he got kicked even tho it wasnt mentioned it was GREED RUN. makes the person who kicked him in the wrong. if no one specified its greed run - and someone needs - u warn them that this is greed and that next run is that way. if u forgot to say it (i do somtimes) then it ur fault. also if i enter a pt that wasnt stated I ASK IS THIS NEED OR GREED. simple. communication is key
PS: FC has <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> items worth barely anything anyway. it was silly to kick a person without explaining it to them - or stating it was greed in first place. and theres a huge difference between a NINJA and ignorance. op seemed ignorant that his action was selfish. a ninja knows - they wait till everyone hits greed. then hits the need button last to be 100% sure they get the item without getting kicked (they know they can get kicked for needing on a GREED RUN - NINJA- VERSUS IGNORANCE). they know they are doing it ive caught a few trying to pull it off. usally its a class item for them that drops (worth alot of ad) and everyone greed. (if it not my class) i wait for them to greed... if i see they are out waiting me... i type GREED. and if he still dont click it and timer almost out - i kick. that way u get rid of ninjas again ninjas and ignorance - not the same thing
I simply cannot agree on anything you mentioned there.
if the gear for CW and GWF worth more, then for 1) it costs those classes more to gear up; and 2) there are more chances you have more than 1 CW or GWF in one group, thus lowering their chance of getting the item in the bigger picture. All need ALWAYS work.
Also, there is no default greed run. Anyone should be entitled to roll need whenever the system allow him to do so. A run is never a greed run UNLESS SPECIFIED AND AGREED.
People don't realize that when you pug, you can't expect others to go by any sort of default, unless the whole group comes up with an agreement. So instead of accusing others being ninjas, why not just admit that you are being overly greedy when kicking people, because you want the loot others are entitled to?
solution is dont let the roll appear on the screen .example:pokie roll need and rolie roll greed it wont appear on the screen so nobody knows who roll what and you dont know who won the loot
and thats why I dont do dungeons often ,because of greedy <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.if the loot is for your charactar I dont see why you cant need it.
and I dont do greed runs and even in no greed runs they want you to greed every thing most of the times
for me the roll should be private
solution is dont let the roll appear on the screen .example:pokie roll need and rolie roll greed it wont appear on the screen so nobody knows who roll what and you dont know who won the loot
and thats why I dont do dungeons often ,because of greedy <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.if the loot is for your charactar I dont see why you cant need it.
and I dont do greed runs and even in no greed runs they want you to greed every thing most of the times
for me the roll should be private
This just empowers people to abuse the system and need on things when everyone agree's to greed so they can screw others to make a profit. This is bar none one of the absolute worst ideas that could be done with loot in an mmo. Any mmo.
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I do that mostly for the sake of simplicity. However, I hate that system, and let me explain why:
1. Need run - Let's assume there's five players in a party, and each of them is of different class. There are six types of classes in total, for the time being. An item drops. Since there are six classes, let's assume the chance of dropping an item for your class is 16.6% (100% chance of dropping an item / 6 classes = 16.6%), which means that there is 16.6% chance that you will be able to choose need, and ultimately get the item. There is also a chance of 16.6% that an item will be of sixth class which is not present in the party, so everyone can choose only greed (assuming no one wants to pass), so when you divide that 16.6% by 5, you get another 3.3% chance of getting an item. When you add that 3.3% chance to your 16.6% chance of choosing need, you have a total of 20% chance of getting an item.
2. Greed run - Let's assume there's five players in a party. An item drops, but this time everyone chooses greed, which means that everyone has a 20% chance of getting that item. Plain and simple.
So, they are basically the same thing, right? Wrong. We assumed that all classes have equal chance of getting an item drop for their own class, but we all know that is not the case, at least not in some dungeons, or at some bosses. Truth to be told, I would still prefer need run over the greed run, since I wouldn't have to worry about dishonest people and kicking from the party or choosing need after everyone has already chosen greed, yet I still insist on greed runs, since I neither have the time nor the will to explain all of this to every single person. However, people can still be kicked in a need run, so the problem is still not solved, only minimized.
So, what's the solution to this mess?
There are few possible solutions, and one of them is already present - Round Robin. Everyone has the same 20% chance of getting an item, and there's the end to that story. It eliminates the whole need/greed issue.
The only thing I would like to change, however, is the very thing most of you have been discussing here - disabling the option to kick during and after the boss fights for a short period of time (the period should be the same as the one on the countdown meter), as well as implementing a system which will force the party to agree on loot system before the run begins, and not leaving it to the will of randomly picked leader (which is an issue of it's own).
You are in a random match, all 5 signed up for a random chance at the gear.
Regardless of whether they need it or not , they spent the same amount of time grinding the dungeon and deserve the same chance at the payoff, even if it is only a few k unrefined AD.
You thinking that simply because your classes equip dropped makes you entitled to it above the other 4 in group is greedy.
If you want to grind gear , don't do it in a PUG. Get a group and make sure your the only one of your class that needs the gear.
Don't hop in a pug match and start needing stuff and not expected to get booted. They are all there for the same thing as you.
The loot system does entitle him. The loot system that does not is not called "greed", but Round Robin.
Saying the loot system entitles him in no way changes the fact that he will get booted for 'need'ing things.
"need"ing things simply means you value your time over the groups time, or fairness. as such you deserve to get the boot.
Also, how well does 'round robin' work in dungeons with one good drop?
Agreed, and Round Robin is the perfect solution, it just the AD hoarders are to lazy to pick up their own loot.
You have to grind 5 dungeons to get a chance at some gear?
Do you leave after you get your gear and let the other people in group grind their gear alone or do you stick it out for 5 dungeons to get em all that gear?
Hitting "Greed" solves it.
Everyone gets a fair chance at the payoff for the dungeon.
Your whole argument is that people who vote "greed" and give everyone the same chance at the item are being greedy because you are the one that needs it. Bad argument is bad.
You guys go ahead and keep hitting need in dungeons and getting kicked.
Keep starting threads about how your feelings are hurt because you ninja'd the gear at the end of the dungeon and now nobody wants to play with you.
I'll leave it to someone else to explain why people don't want to play with you in dungeons.
To which you'll reply "but i needed it and he didn't" never getting the point that noone cares whether you need it as little as you care whether they need it.
I'm done with the subject, but word of advice. Stop hitting "need" because as much as you may feel like you are 'winning' this thread...it will do nothing to keep you from getting kicked from dungeons and trolled in zone chat as a greedy ninja.
How is choosing "round robin" to give people a random chance at item any different from choosing "greed" to give all people a random chance at the item?
Aside from all 5 people getting a chance at EVERY drop when you hit greed...
All legit runs usually = greed, that is how it rolls.
LFG is up for grabs, if you want to need, join a non greed run and roll need I guess.
THE probability that a item drops that is for your class and actual worth value is about 10%. Items that are under 15k for sale in the auction house ARE not need items to start with, anyone can buy them at anytime for less then 1 days worth of grind.
This clearly leaves a VERY small and select # of items, certain CW, HR and GWF items, HP helmet that are worth anything.
The rest of it, isnt worth much of all, those items are not needed either, by stating you need a item is ridiculous if its already in the AH less then 15k. Im not a super rich player either, but come on, roll a couple toons, do leadership , do GG, Dom and a few skirms and you can clear 15k easily in one day, at least 10k .. 10k should be nothing for all players, even newish ones who learn the ropes after 4 weeks give or take.
I have no issues with poeple rolling greed on every single item in the game, EVERY t2 item will eventually come up in your box. There is nothing you "need" you are just clearly stating your TIME is more valuable then everyone elses when you do this.
There should be a GREED or NEED all option in the game for those of us who wish to run that way.
you clearly dont run legit then. a couple of needs wouldve asked you to stop, if you didnt it wouldve been a vote kick and announcement in channel.
If you read the first post I wrote on this topic, you would know that I insist on greed runs for the sake of simplicity and kick people that choose need. I couldn't have stated that more clearly.
The thing that you couldn't understand, however, is that I think that system is a mess, and that there is a better solution. And no, it is not an offtopic, it is a spot on discussion, which you can't seem to grasp.
Exactly. Round Robin offers everyone the same chance to win an item, same as everyone choosing "greed". It is even better, because it eliminates the need to force "greed".
He meant something else, actually.
You do realize that legit is a chat channel used by almost all of the decent players in this game? Most skilled players don't use lfg, they use legit. "legit" isn't being used as a synonym for "legal" in this instance.
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even if the logic that if u always NEED - ull come out at about the same chance as everyone to get an item. the problem isnt that u have roughly 16 percent chance of a item for ur class dropping - the problem is CW and GWF and HR gear are higher value gear. if u run a DK run - gwf helm can sell for 900k ad!!! (that same helm can be aquired by doing Dungeon delves run in T2 dungeons (on free chest.)
so if someone NEEDs that item, thier stupid ^^ that item should be sold for all that ad and just grind t2 chest.
now back to my topic - the fact that some items are worth more means the chance to profit from items isnt the same as everyone unless EVERYONE HITS GREED. because honestly u make more profit selling items then wearing them.
now this idea od greed runs seems foreign to noobs. but u will quickly catch up with the experienced players. the best gear set for your class out there - usally is from dungeon delves chest anyway. so theres no need for you to be a greedy and NEED items u dont NEED.
now befor ei end this, i want to make it clear again. GREED runs is a default setting of dungeon FOR EXPERIENCED PLAYERS. pre 60 - everyone needs and thats fine cuz ur leveling up and all gear is blue and worthless anyway.
but once u reach that point where ur running with experienced players. dont make the community hate you and block you. play along with greed runs. if u dont like that. make ur own pts of NEED RUNS. or join need runs.
and about the OP. the fact he got kicked even tho it wasnt mentioned it was GREED RUN. makes the person who kicked him in the wrong. if no one specified its greed run - and someone needs - u warn them that this is greed and that next run is that way. if u forgot to say it (i do somtimes) then it ur fault. also if i enter a pt that wasnt stated I ASK IS THIS NEED OR GREED. simple. communication is key
PS: FC has <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> items worth barely anything anyway. it was silly to kick a person without explaining it to them - or stating it was greed in first place. and theres a huge difference between a NINJA and ignorance. op seemed ignorant that his action was selfish. a ninja knows - they wait till everyone hits greed. then hits the need button last to be 100% sure they get the item without getting kicked (they know they can get kicked for needing on a GREED RUN - NINJA- VERSUS IGNORANCE). they know they are doing it
and u did not mention that the reason is - different class drops are worth more ad then others. this is why just needing ur own class isnt the same chance as loot as everyone. otherwise only GWF would profit hugely. and GF would always get low priced ad drops
Honestly, I did not take that into the account, since I didn't thought about that factor. Still, read more about Round Robin. It offers everyone 20% chance.
Problem is that their are 1-3 item drops per dungeon 1-3 bosses. Only one of those bosses has a low drop rate of a good item, and if I'm not mistaken more than just purples will take the turn in the round. Not a good solution.
edit*
I should note that I haven't used rr in this game just in others and I'm basing my information on that.
PS: mabe this can be an alternative - but a much better loot option would be giving need to all. that way u can pass on stuff still. i dont actually want to have 20% OF ALL LOOTS just the boss fight ones really
Not everyone has a chance at every item.
I simply cannot agree on anything you mentioned there.
if the gear for CW and GWF worth more, then for 1) it costs those classes more to gear up; and 2) there are more chances you have more than 1 CW or GWF in one group, thus lowering their chance of getting the item in the bigger picture. All need ALWAYS work.
Also, there is no default greed run. Anyone should be entitled to roll need whenever the system allow him to do so. A run is never a greed run UNLESS SPECIFIED AND AGREED.
People don't realize that when you pug, you can't expect others to go by any sort of default, unless the whole group comes up with an agreement. So instead of accusing others being ninjas, why not just admit that you are being overly greedy when kicking people, because you want the loot others are entitled to?
and thats why I dont do dungeons often ,because of greedy <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.if the loot is for your charactar I dont see why you cant need it.
and I dont do greed runs and even in no greed runs they want you to greed every thing most of the times
for me the roll should be private