lagg doesnt take away from the fact that dodges and cc immunity are one and the same.
everyone has different bandwiths. it doesnt make your statement true.
It does, as those who don´t have to rely only upon dodges are clearly favourite. Each class should have a minimum of CC-breaker and CC-available to take these issues into account. Look at live: dodges and Unstoppable are not on par when it comes to lag issues. If you have a little lag when Unstoppable is on it still works, if you have it when you try to dodge you´re toast.
And the little CC HRs had (Constrictive) is now gone. The only thing left is an interrupt daily (Disrupting Shot) and roots for the Trapper, which is anyway not a PvP spec. And roots cannot stop a ranged opponent at all.
Thos doesn´t mean that Wild Medicine is ok. It should be loooked into deeply, to ensure it doesn´t become like the PvP set in live. What I´m saying is that HRs (and other classes) should be designed in a way that is robust enough to make the game fun also for those who experience a little bit of lag. Obviously having no lag should be a benefit but not the end of it all.
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
anyone that says wilds medicine isnt too good is flat out lieing or deluding themselves it's essentialy the combatant profound set all over again.
Also again why I think it needs to be toned down... I mean we just went over the proc and everything. Say 35k HP... @ 2.5% for HD = 875/15 sec = 58Heal/sec*10 stacks = 580 HP a second.... and this is the NERFED (HD) version with almost 100% uptime....
Im sorry man, but if this is NEEDED to be viable in pvp there are clearly other issues with the class. Again, I dont want this class to fail I want fair fights and nothing like mod2 and mod3 have been. Both mods were fun at first, then because of broken issues (like emblem - which I had btw) it just isnt fun anymore. Mod 3 was the same thing and also why I havnt even been pvping lately - its just boring when its all the same meta.
What I think would be FAIR is 1) easier to get to the "max" benefit of this ability 2) the "max" ability is less "potent". So even something like:
Deflecting attacks causes you to heal for 8% of your HP over 5 seconds, DOESNT stack. New deflects refresh the buff. - This means you deflect an attack and get almost 300 heal per second.... Youd have almost 100% uptime on this though. So thats 900/3 sec... I mean compare that to any other T3 feat.... Again, takes less "build up" but is much more potent than even 3-4 stacks of the current proc....
it just makes is less of a feat where you can build up 10 stacks, then go hide with your daily, or just kite around for 6-8 seconds while you regen a ton of HP. Its more about staying in combat, healing off deflected blows - giving incentive to stay in the fight.
CWs - got TWO massive "tone downs" with this latest patch. Shield and assailing force are both HALF as effective as before... The "last" of the OP feats (IMO) is this self heal from Wilds... But this should all put everything in the realm of balance...
it just makes is less of a feat where you can build up 10 stacks, then go hide with your daily, or just kite around for 6-8 seconds while you regen a ton of HP. Its more about staying in combat, healing off deflected blows - giving incentive to stay in the fight.
You do have a bit hard time understanding what people write dont you.
Let me take you through this like a would a 10 year old and see if you get it this time...
WE DO NOT HAVE CC
WE DONT HAVE CC BREAK so we cant kite around as we get cced and killed as soon as we get focused by more then 1 and the only thing that can keep us alive is our ability to regenerate HP.
Now ALL you suggest is nerfing of the healing ability so we arent that good 1-1 because frankly we are not better then gf or gwf but rather worse when focused by more then 1..
We have NO VALID PVE/PVP build we have to either go full pvp or full pve to be of use in groups(yes we are not alone about this but gwf gf is not one of those classes).
We have NO VALID GROUP UTILITY making us desirable in groups either in pvp like gfs or in pve like dc.
The reason I object to your one sided never ending qq about the healing of Hrs is that you REFUSE to see any other side of the class but the ability to being able to beat you in 1-1.
THIS IS NOT A 1-1 built game in pvp or pve dungeons mkay.
Before you start thinking with the inside that was given to you to be used I strongly suggest you stay in your own class forum with feedback that actually comes from playing the class and might have some bearing to why it is written.........
Well Ive been spending ALOT of time dueling HRs on the PTR and I dont wanna come here "crying for a nerf" - as many will say, but dang it heals SO much...
Dragonborn healing helps classes with the most healing, hence why its a good DC class, and especially amazing for HRs who heal a TON as well, arguably the best for HRs... or Halflings.
Im not an expert on how WM works, but I learned that if you dont kill an HR in a very short time frame, your gonna lose..
"Wilds Medicine: Deflecting attacks cause the Hunter to be healed for 1/2/3/4/5% of their HP over 15 seconds. This effect can stack 10 times" - am I right?
So at 40k HP, 40000*.025(HD) = 1,000 over 15 seconds. Roughly 67/sec * 10 = 670 a second... for a regen equiv * 3 = 2010 regen ticks.... PLUS a decent regen tick of 1000 (which isnt even that high) and your looking at over 1000 HP/sec with 10 stacks and decent regen....
I personally think HRs are "hiding" behind saying this saying "well it takes time to get 10 stacks" - yes, but once you do, your almost invincible... Id like to see more of a "balance" where its easier to maybe get full stacks, but less effective overall for long fights...
We are not hiding behind it. In current preview tested today - with deflect around 40-50 change depending from gear. and top deflect gear meens damage halfed or more. - i could not stack it in IWD more then 5 on epic encounter. - like traders or totem. just because it expires. and we are talking about pathfinder with aroud 1500 regen. it takes like half of my health from atack that take WD up to 5. So yeah - there is a lucky change you can get like 2-3 cw atacking you with beam - it is important since it is low damage atack really - that you can stack WM hight - but it is a very very rare case as i can see it.
Don't forget it heals for 15 sec but only with 5 tick on 3 secs.
Nerfing of 20% healing bonus and nerf of AoLF, profound, Constructing Arrow - we lost much more then we gained
We are not hiding behind it. In current preview tested today - with deflect around 40-50 change depending from gear. and top deflect gear meens damage halfed or more. - i could not stack it in IWD more then 5 on epic encounter. - like traders or totem. just because it expires. and we are talking about pathfinder with aroud 1500 regen. it takes like half of my health from atack that take WD up to 5. So yeah - there is a lucky change you can get like 2-3 cw atacking you with beam - it is important since it is low damage atack really - that you can stack WM hight - but it is a very very rare case as i can see it.
Don't forget it heals for 15 sec but only with 5 tick on 3 secs.
Nerfing of 20% healing bonus and nerf of AoLF, profound, Constructing Arrow - we lost much more then we gained
If the HR on preview stopped getting attacked for 5 seconds (it's possible for them to stop taking damage for that amount of time) they will heal MORE then the damage that procced their medicine, which is completely unbias as every other healing ability for every other class NEVER heals for more then the damage dealt/taken. It's absurd that you think this isn't op.
If the HR on preview stopped getting attacked for 5 seconds (it's possible for them to stop taking damage for that amount of time) they will heal MORE then the damage that procced their medicine, which is completely unbias as every other healing ability for every other class NEVER heals for more then the damage dealt/taken. It's absurd that you think this isn't op.
It is not absurd - I play HR as my main. And i play it. you talk about it. I know how much I heal now. I had to switch to pathfinder to live in pvp. otherwise - one CC im dead. CW take like half of my health with frozen blade now. so don't try to tell me what is abusurd.
with same hr in profund - gs ~16k - it take me a minute on no atack to heal to 75%. And if you use math - subject from school - and reading - you will see that WM works for 15 sec. Not after 10 stack for 15 sec - just 15 sec for each. so you can be healed only
5% over 15 sec.
And again - if you are atacked- atack meens you take damage!
It is not absurd - I play HR as my main. And i play it. you talk about it. I know how much I heal now. I had to switch to pathfinder to live in pvp. otherwise - one CC im dead. CW take like half of my health with frozen blade now. so don't try to tell me what is abusurd.
with same hr in profund - gs ~16k - it take me a minute on no atack to heal to 75%. And if you use math - subject from school - and reading - you will see that WM works for 15 sec. Not after 10 stack for 15 sec - just 15 sec for each. so you can be healed only
5% over 15 sec.
And again - if you are atacked- atack meens you take damage!
HRs are tankier then any other class on the preview atm, they just heal up more then they take damage. I don't want to insult your logic but if you think it should stay the way it is then your sorely mistaken. It's too op of a feat, if it was in the nature tree then I wouldn't have such a hard time accepting it because at the minute melee hr's can take down anyone and go full hp before then fight is even over, without using pots or waters artifact
There is NO class in the game that should HAVE to rely on a "T3" Feat to sruvive. The fact that this ONE ability seems to be a "make it or break it" ability for you tell me the class is clearly not working as intended...
As a capstone? I could see something LIKE this being almost this powerful.
Again I think crazymikee, really nailed it. That if you dont get hit for 5 seconds, youll heal for a TON of HP...
You mentioned you had trouble even getting stacks in the first place, so you should actually LIKE my suggestion (Deflecting attacks causes you to heal for 8% of your HP over 5 seconds, DOESNT stack. New deflects refresh the buff. )... It requires NO stacking. Once you DO deflect an attack, you generate a buff that gives you a nice HoT... Its not AS good as the current stacking, but requires NO stacking and should be able to have near 100% uptime....
If you have issues with surviving, maybe the issue is in the classes powers/encounters and (dare I say it) the way you play as well... Having ONE T3 feat being THIS good - is just rather ridiculous. Even if it were a capstone it would be insane.....
i could not stack it in IWD more then 5 on epic encounter. - like traders or totem. just because it expires.
Again, so YOU should be in FAVOR of my suggestion if this is actually true....
Deflecting attacks causes you to heal for 8% of your HP over 5 seconds, DOESNT stack. New deflects refresh the buff.
Do the math, if what you say is true (5 stacks) This means you had 25% of your HP over 15 seconds and it was HARD to stack... Then fell off.
If you have DECENT HP in IWD + Pet youll be at 35k easily. So you should have been healing for about 580HP/S ?
Well my option youd heal 560 HP/S with ZERO stacking involved. You take damage and deflect, you heal 560HP/S.....
What I see from your post is:
1) Its not good enough in PVE - because you dont get hit enough to deflect enough to keep stacking this
2) Its TOO good in PVP when you "get lucky" with so many procs....
My solution meets you in the middle, at what I think is actually pretty balanced...
if HRs need more to survive, then propose changes to encounters or dailies or class features.
But asking to leave a T3 feat alone thats causing you to outheal alot of damage able to be dealt in PVP? Thats just silly....
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reagenlionel1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
There is NO class in the game that should HAVE to rely on a "T3" Feat to sruvive. The fact that this ONE ability seems to be a "make it or break it" ability for you tell me the class is clearly not working as intended...
As a capstone? I could see something LIKE this being almost this powerful.
Again I think crazymikee, really nailed it. That if you dont get hit for 5 seconds, youll heal for a TON of HP...
You mentioned you had trouble even getting stacks in the first place, so you should actually LIKE my suggestion (Deflecting attacks causes you to heal for 8% of your HP over 5 seconds, DOESNT stack. New deflects refresh the buff. )... It requires NO stacking. Once you DO deflect an attack, you generate a buff that gives you a nice HoT... Its not AS good as the current stacking, but requires NO stacking and should be able to have near 100% uptime....
If you have issues with surviving, maybe the issue is in the classes powers/encounters and (dare I say it) the way you play as well... Having ONE T3 feat being THIS good - is just rather ridiculous. Even if it were a capstone it would be insane.....
I agree regarding the wild medicine feat. Its just way too good. I dont use it or the set bonus that used to grant the same thing for the very reason that its just too good. It feels way too cheap.
HRs are tankier then any other class on the preview atm, they just heal up more then they take damage. I don't want to insult your logic but if you think it should stay the way it is then your sorely mistaken. It's too op of a feat, if it was in the nature tree then I wouldn't have such a hard time accepting it because at the minute melee hr's can take down anyone and go full hp before then fight is even over, without using pots or waters artifact
I don't know what fights you're looking at but last time I tested on preview with the latest changes, I died in multiple 1v1s, most notably to CWs.
In any case, 1v1 doesn't matter in this game except for node-contesting. HR dies to competent 2v1 (unlike TR), and CW and GWF are the best teammates to have when ganging up on someone.
Again, so YOU should be in FAVOR of my suggestion if this is actually true....
Deflecting attacks causes you to heal for 8% of your HP over 5 seconds, DOESNT stack. New deflects refresh the buff.
Do the math, if what you say is true (5 stacks) This means you had 25% of your HP over 15 seconds and it was HARD to stack... Then fell off.
If you have DECENT HP in IWD + Pet youll be at 35k easily. So you should have been healing for about 580HP/S ?
Well my option youd heal 560 HP/S with ZERO stacking involved. You take damage and deflect, you heal 560HP/S.....
What I see from your post is:
1) Its not good enough in PVE - because you dont get hit enough to deflect enough to keep stacking this
2) Its TOO good in PVP when you "get lucky" with so many procs....
My solution meets you in the middle, at what I think is actually pretty balanced...
if HRs need more to survive, then propose changes to encounters or dailies or class features.
But asking to leave a T3 feat alone thats causing you to outheal alot of damage able to be dealt in PVP? Thats just silly....
Listen. Wilds Medicine is intended to help combat HRs who must get in melee range survive. It's the equivlant of stealth, ITC, or unstoppable.
How about we remove unstoppable entirely and give you an 8% heal over 5 seconds on deflects.
But asking to leave a T3 feat alone thats causing you to outheal alot of damage able to be dealt in PVP? Thats just silly....
The only damage we can potentially outheal is something like spamming ray of frost. Which I'm sure CrazyMike is doing.
Low damage/fast attack = deflects and heals.
My Harem: Dawn HR, Erin CW, Piper TR, Zoe GWF
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mircalla83Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 36
Well Ive been spending ALOT of time dueling HRs on the PTR and I dont wanna come here "crying for a nerf" - as many will say, but dang it heals SO much...
Dragonborn healing helps classes with the most healing, hence why its a good DC class, and especially amazing for HRs who heal a TON as well, arguably the best for HRs... or Halflings.
Im not an expert on how WM works, but I learned that if you dont kill an HR in a very short time frame, your gonna lose..
"Wilds Medicine: Deflecting attacks cause the Hunter to be healed for 1/2/3/4/5% of their HP over 15 seconds. This effect can stack 10 times" - am I right?
So at 40k HP, 40000*.025(HD) = 1,000 over 15 seconds. Roughly 67/sec * 10 = 670 a second... for a regen equiv * 3 = 2010 regen ticks.... PLUS a decent regen tick of 1000 (which isnt even that high) and your looking at over 1000 HP/sec with 10 stacks and decent regen....
I personally think HRs are "hiding" behind saying this saying "well it takes time to get 10 stacks" - yes, but once you do, your almost invincible... Id like to see more of a "balance" where its easier to maybe get full stacks, but less effective overall for long fights...
You also forget that the Combat HR (which will have the Medicine Feat, as a TIER THREE Feat) has, in his Feat Path, NO Feat to increase Crit Chance, and only gets bonuses to damage when you gang up on it.
Simply obey the advice everyone who is complaining about Perma TRs is getting: You can't kill them (unless they mess up), but they can't put a dent in you either. So just move to the next node.
What the 'Waaah, HRs are healing too much' are whining about and want is a 'Baseline' Nerf that would cripple the Combat Path into a PvP Spec AGAIN. Which is quite obviously not going to happen. If you actually check some of the things on preview, the new 'Empire' Set, from the Tyranny Campaign, is actually giving out even more Deflection than Royal Guard, which, to this point, is pretty much 'Meta' for PvE (and has, to my knowledge, been the 'Meta' Armor Set before the Tenacity Patch in PvP, too).
And the 'Kill the HR in a short time frame' - that is called 'Spec for Burst, not plinkplinkplink knifethrowing or DoTs'. Or maybe try 'Non Staged' (aka not using 'basically no damage' skills like Ray of Frost only) fights against CWs that adapted to the new paths and don't hump DoTs all day.
Listen. Wilds Medicine is intended to help combat HRs who must get in melee range survive. It's the equivlant of stealth, ITC, or unstoppable.
How about we remove unstoppable entirely and give you an 8% heal over 5 seconds on deflects.
Ummm wilds med is a feat. Those are actually class features. Sure keep WM as is, then it needs an addendum: removes archery encounters, since WM replaces your class featurbof having 6 encounters right? It makes no sense...
Above someone (rudely) said this is HR thread, well i posted feedback and suggestion...
Change wild med so its 8% over 5 sec no stacking. If HRs need something else, post it, but IMO they would be just fine with this.
Also, you take any class 2v1 and they will blow up SO fast. GFs even with new block will die in seconds. Pretty sure they didnt intend an HR to tank 2v1 well in pvp... Perma is only exception which the DEVs said changes are inc. Sent would be second best after TR even then... Wont be a super long fight.
I havnt seen any other suggestions just flame....
If HRs wont post about their own class. I will.
Ummm wilds med is a feat. Those are actually class features. Sure keep WM as is, then it needs an addendum: removes archery encounters, since WM replaces your class featurbof having 6 encounters right? It makes no sense...
No, what it replaces is the set-bonus, which was given to us because our survival sucks, and a combat HR needs to be in melee range.
It's strong for a feat, sure, but it's necessary if an HR is to live in combat range.
It's unusual, but so is a melee oriented class (Combat HR is melee oriented) without any CC to speak of, no CC break, no reliable CC-immunity (our dodges suck, despite having 5) and general squishiness (and we are squishy without self-healing).
Forget it's a feat and forget unstoppable is a class trait, or ITC is an ability. They're all similar in that they exist because melee-range is inherently dangerous.
Personally, I'm sick to death of relying on passive self-healing to live in PVP, but unless the Devs want to give us a CC-break and reliable immunity, it's the only way we're going to have a chance since we're GOING to take hits.
Also, you take any class 2v1 and they will blow up SO fast.
Not TR, which you note.
HR functions much like a TR in PVP, it's great in contesting nodes. The difference is an HR dies to 2+ people. A TR won't if he doesn't want to.
This brings diversity to the game, with classes performing different roles. Neither a TR or HR is a top-pick for group fights, but they're both very good 1v1 (HR a bit better, but TR better 2+v1). In group fights, neither brings any cc to speak of nor any burst, which are the main 2 things you want in group fights.
The big problem is you and others are basing your suggestions on 1v1 fights. An HR is supposed to be great 1v1, otherwise it doesn't have much of a role in PVP without CC and burst.
The Devs are right to not base all PVP balance on 1v1, otherwise diversity disappears.
I have spent some time dueling combat HRs as well. As a TR using duelist, the healing is crazy for HR. I think the reason is that it synergies with Incoming Healing Bonus stat. We are talking from below 50 health to full 20 seconds into the fight. I don't think I am alone with seeing this. Do more testing please.
Funny thing is wild medicine is the only thing people are fussing over in the new Combat tree i suppose the enormous amount of Lifesteal Built into it also is not a problem or the high amount of armor ignoring dmg. Not to mention with Pegasus seal ring HR can get up to almost 2k regen with out battlehouned with it its 2k more then 2k if you carry waters. The problem with the combat tree atm is that it as a whole gives a HR every defensive stats cap they could dream off all they have to do is replace the crit they lost and boom.
Gang Busters PvP Guild Recruiting When Mod 6 goes live Pm Me for more Info If you have any Paladin question Message Me and i will get back to you ASAP
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mircalla83Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 36
Funny thing is wild medicine is the only thing people are fussing over in the new Combat tree i suppose the enormous amount of Lifesteal Built into it also is not a problem or the high amount of armor ignoring dmg. Not to mention with Pegasus seal ring HR can get up to almost 2k regen with out battlehouned with it its 2k more then 2k if you carry waters. The problem with the combat tree atm is that it as a whole gives a HR every defensive stats cap they could dream off all they have to do is replace the crit they lost and boom.
As you are a HR yourself, you (as well as the 'NERF WM' criers) might be aware that the LS applies to Melee Stance Damage, and the 'Armor Ignoring Damage' applies to Melee Stance Damage, too. So get a CW in your team who, on a 'Medicine-less' HR shuts the HR down from closing in on the team (can only Fox/Boar/Marauder in every so often, as you know), and rip him to shreds. Plus the new 'Freeze only breaks when Control Resist says it breaks', and you have a dead HR once the HR is frozen and the CW throws in some Burst Damage instead of pitiful DoTs. The LS stacks from the feats run out rather fast, so you can't really maintain them in ranged mode for a long time, and in ranged, you can't reapply them either.
Since they now have shown that they can have Skills and Feats work differently in PvP and PvE, it might be better to suggest a 'When under the Effects of Healing Depression, the Base Value of this is halved' Effect, so, instead of 50% on Medicine, scale it down to 25%, that would be 12.5% over 15 Seconds, or 2.5% MaxHP per 3 Seconds.
10-Stack Medicine would be, what the 'Nerfcriers' want, killed off and more or less useless in PvP, but it would still allow any Ranger to survive PvE Melee without being a Ballerina that is over 50% of the time plinking away at range without applying the feats they actually invested in.
This would also allow a HR that still survives the fight to benefit from Medicine, when out of Combat and HD is gone, since the remaining Stacks would tick at maximum Power, to top the HR off again.
However, given the fact that the HR lost direct DR (and with that, taking more damage from the rest of the hit that isn't deflected), in a PvE Bossfight, where the boss, 'Whole Floor is Red' and 'Addtastic AoE Sausagefest' applies, Medicine is triggering often enough to allow the Combat HR to stay in combat, as long as they dodge the REALLY heavy hitters.
As you are a HR yourself, you (as well as the 'NERF WM' criers) might be aware that the LS applies to Melee Stance Damage, and the 'Armor Ignoring Damage' applies to Melee Stance Damage, too. So get a CW in your team who, on a 'Medicine-less' HR shuts the HR down from closing in on the team (can only Fox/Boar/Marauder in every so often, as you know), and rip him to shreds. Plus the new 'Freeze only breaks when Control Resist says it breaks', and you have a dead HR once the HR is frozen and the CW throws in some Burst Damage instead of pitiful DoTs. The LS stacks from the feats run out rather fast, so you can't really maintain them in ranged mode for a long time, and in ranged, you can't reapply them either.
Since they now have shown that they can have Skills and Feats work differently in PvP and PvE, it might be better to suggest a 'When under the Effects of Healing Depression, the Base Value of this is halved' Effect, so, instead of 50% on Medicine, scale it down to 25%, that would be 12.5% over 15 Seconds, or 2.5% MaxHP per 3 Seconds.
10-Stack Medicine would be, what the 'Nerfcriers' want, killed off and more or less useless in PvP, but it would still allow any Ranger to survive PvE Melee without being a Ballerina that is over 50% of the time plinking away at range without applying the feats they actually invested in.
This would also allow a HR that still survives the fight to benefit from Medicine, when out of Combat and HD is gone, since the remaining Stacks would tick at maximum Power, to top the HR off again.
However, given the fact that the HR lost direct DR (and with that, taking more damage from the rest of the hit that isn't deflected), in a PvE Bossfight, where the boss, 'Whole Floor is Red' and 'Addtastic AoE Sausagefest' applies, Medicine is triggering often enough to allow the Combat HR to stay in combat, as long as they dodge the REALLY heavy hitters.
you must consider other variables you have to conciser in mod 4 most likely for PvP i will be bringing Control resist artifacts cuas that is one thing that can kill me but from what i hear oppressor CW lose alot of dmg for all that frozen control but then again i am not a CW so i don't know their skill feat layout
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mircalla83Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 36
you must consider other variables you have to conciser in mod 4 most likely for PvP i will be bringing Control resist artifacts cuas that is one thing that can kill me but from what i hear oppressor CW lose alot of dmg for all that frozen control but then again i am not a CW so i don't know their skill feat layout
That's why the PvE Medicine must stay as it is now, with a change to the way it works in PvP. As I said, a mechanic that moves it from 25% over 15 to 12.5% over 15 (aka 75% Depression, on Medicine only).
I'm not a PvP geared or PvP skilled player, but this, in theory, should be easy to test for a more dedicated PvPer, just put only 3 Points into Medicine, keep the Rest as it is, 2 Feat points unspent. Under HD, this should give 15%, which should be close enough, maybe even run a Test Series at 2 Points in Medicine, 3 Unspent first.
Edit: And since a HR can't hide away as easily as a TR, and has to work harder to properly disengage (well, unless using Marauder stacked with other Movespeed boosts, or rather chained) than a TR, the 'Full Power Medicine' might top off the HR again, but since he can't hide as well, you can catch him and try to hit him, sending Medicine to 'LolNope' strength again.
'When under the Effects of Healing Depression, the Base Value of this is halved' Effect, so, instead of 50% on Medicine, scale it down to 25%, that would be 12.5% over 15 Seconds, or 2.5% MaxHP per 3 Seconds.
10-Stack Medicine would be, what the 'Nerfcriers' want, killed off and more or less useless in PvP, but it would still allow any Ranger to survive PvE Melee without being a Ballerina that is over 50% of the time plinking away at range without applying the feats they actually invested in.
This would also allow a HR that still survives the fight to benefit from Medicine, when out of Combat and HD is gone, since the remaining Stacks would tick at maximum Power, to top the HR off again.
However, given the fact that the HR lost direct DR (and with that, taking more damage from the rest of the hit that isn't deflected), in a PvE Bossfight, where the boss, 'Whole Floor is Red' and 'Addtastic AoE Sausagefest' applies, Medicine is triggering often enough to allow the Combat HR to stay in combat, as long as they dodge the REALLY heavy hitters.
Again, if this is your suggestion, mine is much better. Your suggesting a 50% nerf to the already 50% (by HD) Wilds.
So do the math, 12.5% over 15 seconds is .833% Hp/S * 10 = .833% HP/S at MAX stacks - which takes quite some build up (but not even with some enchants or classes with DoTs)
I said 8% of HP (so 4% with HD) over 5 seconds with NO stacking - This is .8% HP/S with ZERO build up.
What is funny is marnival is saying that in PVE its not even that good since he hardly deflects, your saying its needed. Even this changed version above ALL you need to do is deflect 1x and then BAM (in PVE) 8% HP over 5 seconds = 1.6% HP a second!
Funny thing is wild medicine is the only thing people are fussing over in the new Combat tree i suppose the enormous amount of Lifesteal Built into it also is not a problem or the high amount of armor ignoring dmg. Not to mention with Pegasus seal ring HR can get up to almost 2k regen with out battlehouned with it its 2k more then 2k if you carry waters. The problem with the combat tree atm is that it as a whole gives a HR every defensive stats cap they could dream off all they have to do is replace the crit they lost and boom.
Alot of classes can get 2k regen. GWFs/GFs get a ton from BI set. Regen is fine, but Wilds will actually heal for over your regen (and it can be FULL effect at 100% HP too - while regen cant)
with 40k HP and 2k regen at <50% HP in PVP youll see around 1400-1600 ticks / 3 sec?
With 40k HP and Wilds stacks your looking at (again) about 2,000 ticks / 3 sec (equiv). And it doesnt matter how much HP you have....
So its EASILY out healing even regen and what I think is partially the issue in PVP, is since it lasts 15 seconds, you can kite around, go invis, etc for several seconds and keep reneging alot of health.
Again, I dont want the class nerfed into oblivion which is why I keep thinking 8% HP over 5 seconds after a deflect. This is STILL VERY powerful for both PVE and PVP. Has ZERO build up, you deflect once and you start healing.
So 40k HP this is STILL 920 HP / 3 sec... This is STILL ontop of your regen ticks.... And lifesteal etc. Just not AS cheesy as a heal lasting over 15 seconds that easily will be outhealing your regen. I even think THIS is too strong for just a feat IMO, however it seems HRs 'NEED' this to even play their class....
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mircalla83Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 36
Again, if this is your suggestion, mine is much better. Your suggesting a 50% nerf to the already 50% (by HD) Wilds.
So do the math, 12.5% over 15 seconds is .833% Hp/S * 10 = .833% HP/S at MAX stacks - which takes quite some build up (but not even with some enchants or classes with DoTs)
I said 8% of HP (so 4% with HD) over 5 seconds with NO stacking - This is .8% HP/S with ZERO build up.
What is funny is marnival is saying that in PVE its not even that good since he hardly deflects, your saying its needed. Even this changed version above ALL you need to do is deflect 1x and then BAM (in PVE) 8% HP over 5 seconds = 1.6% HP a second!
You are not getting what I mean.
You want to shoehorn the Combat Path into a PvP only something. Back where it is.
Wilds Medicine ticks every 3 Seconds, so 5 Ticks over 3 Seconds. In PvE, current Medicine thus regenerates 10% MaxHP per Tick, when fully stacked, or 3.33 (repeating)% a second.
In PvP, current Medicine still ticks every 3 seconds, with HD, that's 5% MaxHP every 3 Seconds, or 1.6 (repeating) a second.
My suggestion, yes, puts it at 0.833% hp/s or 2.5%/3s.
YOUR suggestion, with a maxed out 8% MaxHP over 15, now lets do the math, shall we? Over 15, this would, in PvE, be 24% of MaxHP. So an OVER 50% Nerf to PvE. But what to expect from a PvP GWF.
In PvP, at 4% due to HD, it would be at 0.8%. So while it would be 'easier' to get the maximum, it would also mean even more of a reduction. My suggestion would mean that a 'Burst' (aka picking Terror or Vorpal Enchant, instead of using DoT Type Enchants) Character might be able to overcome a HRs Medicine easier, especially when not whacking into Meditation like a brainless monkey.
Plus your suggestion would give, what, 1.6%/5 per rank of the Feat? You better suggest a bonus to DR then, too.
Edit:
And, if you did not notice it, for some reason - they redid the HR to give it 3 viable paths, each with a different playstyle. A hybrid will get 'the best of all worlds', a Trapper/Archer/Combat HR (less than 20 Points in a tree: Hybrid, to me) always gives something up. The current 'Combat HR' is a ballerina that has to pull out every so often to not get flattened by the AoE that the bunched up mobs throw out, thus either lowering uptime on the mobs, or having to resort to plinking away with skills not benefitting from the, oh, very feats you have increased.
I must ask you to level a HR on Live. No transferred AD or Gear (including Enchants) from other characters, only Auctionhousing stuff you aquire with AD generated by the character itself, normal playstyle (aka no 'stay level 5 to cycle Blacklake'), every dungeon and skirm done via queue, no help from highlevels to drag you through. Aka leveling like a pure free player would do it. And - play as COMBAT Ranger. And then, I ask you to gear as Combat HR, actively participating in Combat, via Epicmode Dungeons. Invoking is allowed, Leadership is allowed, too.
Your suggestion turns Combat into a '15k and upwards GS' Path.
My suggestion, yes, puts it at 0.833% hp/s or 2.5%/3s.
YOUR suggestion, with a maxed out 8% MaxHP over 15, now lets do the math, shall we? Over 15, this would, in PvE, be 24% of MaxHP. So an OVER 50% Nerf to PvE. But what to expect from a PvP GWF.
In PvP, at 4% due to HD, it would be at 0.8%. S
Your missing what I said, I didnt say over 15 seconds I said 8% over 5 seconds. Again, it requires ZERO stacking, you are comparing the feat with 10 stacks - which is what many HRs are saying is that its NOT OP because it takes stacking. OK well lets remove the stacking, put it to HP over 5 seconds. Raise it up quite a bit.
Both our HP/S is roughly the same for PVP EXCEPT yours requires stacking, mine doesnt. This also gives a more immediate boost to HR than having to stack and wait for healing. Its really stupid that on the PTR right now, quite a few classes cant even out DPS WildsMedicine at full stacks...
Your missing what I said, I didnt say over 15 seconds I said 8% over 5 seconds. Again, it requires ZERO stacking, you are comparing the feat with 10 stacks - which is what many HRs are saying is that its NOT OP because it takes stacking. OK well lets remove the stacking, put it to HP over 5 seconds. Raise it up quite a bit.
Both our HP/S is roughly the same for PVP EXCEPT yours requires stacking, mine doesnt. This also gives a more immediate boost to HR than having to stack and wait for healing. Its really stupid that on the PTR right now, quite a few classes cant even out DPS WildsMedicine at full stacks...
and this is way you are getting another +40% damage boost throught marking on top of all the %%%%%%%% boosts you have.
seriously ayroux sometimes you are a bit biased.
the only that should be worried by rangers at the moment are the tr but as tr i m worried about all classes right now except DCs so doesnt matter that much.
and this is way you are getting another +40% damage boost throught marking on top of all the %%%%%%%% boosts you have.
seriously ayroux sometimes you are a bit biased.
the only that should be worried by rangers at the moment are the tr but as tr i m worried about all classes right now except DCs so doesnt matter that much.
Everyone has bias its impossible not to, but when mod 3 came out and GWFs were REALLY OP, I made a detailed thread saying GWFs are dealing too much damage, and posted how to tone them back. So while I DO have an inherent tendency to look out for my class, I am MORE concerned with balance between all the classes.
I wont even (most likely) be playing a GWF mod 4, but I am testing my GWF out in order to give feedback. I also posted (see the GWF thread) saying it is a stupid idea to give mark like they have (btw its only 35% if you feat for it), and Powerful Challenge needs to move into the Sent Tree (15% of that 35%), Ive also posted saying Detroyer (T4) feat which accounts for 37.5% of the damage DEstoryers have in pvp should be removed for PVP purposes as well.... I also posed saying to remove CC immunity on Sprint as well, so I dont think anyone can say im JUST looking out for my own classes...
I dont even PVP right now because its too boring and ALL about class makeup/META. I dont want mod 4 to be the same HAMSTER all over again. TRs will be getting an overhaul much like GWFs/GFs/CWs have for mod 4.
HRs have plenty of "tankiness" even toning WM down a bit, if you dont, your playing it wrong (not you raydan - general Whiners about HR).
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mircalla83Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 36
edited July 2014
Ok, again, for GWFs.
8%, no need to stack, over 5 Seconds.
Now, lets compare to the same it would heal over 15 seconds, if it fired back to back. 8% (First Proc) + 8% (Second Proc) + 8% (Third Proc) --> 24% over 15, if right in the moment it went down, you would deflect again.
Compared to 50% over 15s, but needing to be stacked.
And even if a new Deflection would just replace the previous, it is still a lower amount. 48% of the original, to be precise. Congratulations, feat killed for everyone but people with a PvP Spec, and with this, the whole Feat Line outside of PvP is dead, too. GG.
Please go back to your GWF forum and spew your delusions there.
Weren't people like YOU advocating for 'bring every other class up to CW/GWF niveau', while those 2 classes were facerolling everything left, right and in the middle? Now, the tables have turned.
Tests are biased due to people 'duping' assets over via Charcopy, to generate R8, 9 or 10 Enchants, and test with Gear they might not even have on Live, and would not get close to having there for quite some time.
Yes, it might be over the top with overgeared people in BiS gear with BiS Enchants, Perfects, and the ability to switch out their whole gear in the few seconds of break in PvP, or during stealth.
Lets see how it works with people that aren't BiS, with R8 or upwards (Hint: R5 is more to what the actual target group of the game is wearing, Enchant wise, in some cases not even Armor or Weapon Enchants, not even a Lesser), and hope that if it becomes over the top OUTSIDE of your little 'Perfect everything' Club, it isn't going to become a joyride like GWF had for Mod2, with DG, or CW had from release, with EotS.
I am testing with CASUAL gear, as a CASUAL player, can YOU say the same?
I am testing with CASUAL gear, as a CASUAL player, can YOU say the same?
He's not testing anything properly. He's just a super-biased GWF/GF troll desperately attempting to get CW and HR nerfed and making stuff up to support that objective.
While the ability is nowhere near as powerful as some make it out to be, it's skill-less, boring and causes no end to complaints.
I'd much rather HR's depend more on skill or timing for defense. I suggest replacing one of the lifesteal feats in the combat tree with a feat that would give Marauder's CC-break and immunity during duration (for both stances, since you can't control which stance you'll be in when you get CC'ed). Then you could cut wild's medicine effectiveness in half.
I still think melee-oriented HR's need some self-healing, and from what I understand it goes along with D&D lore that rangers can heal well. But it shouldn't be the crux of our defense.
An HR that depends more on mobility would be much more fun and satisfying to play, and less frustrating to play against.
Please its cutted in half in pvp and its not like they dont have bursts...come on gwfs have like 120 per cent damage boost via feats and class features and i dont have seen the warlock yet!!
Please its cutted in half in pvp and its not like they dont have bursts...come on gwfs have like 120 per cent damage boost via feats and class features and i dont have seen the warlock yet!!
If the warlock can get it to 30% health all he has to do is killing flames it if he cant i am not sure if any of his DoTs or spells in general will kill it
Gang Busters PvP Guild Recruiting When Mod 6 goes live Pm Me for more Info If you have any Paladin question Message Me and i will get back to you ASAP
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Comments
It does, as those who don´t have to rely only upon dodges are clearly favourite. Each class should have a minimum of CC-breaker and CC-available to take these issues into account. Look at live: dodges and Unstoppable are not on par when it comes to lag issues. If you have a little lag when Unstoppable is on it still works, if you have it when you try to dodge you´re toast.
And the little CC HRs had (Constrictive) is now gone. The only thing left is an interrupt daily (Disrupting Shot) and roots for the Trapper, which is anyway not a PvP spec. And roots cannot stop a ranged opponent at all.
Thos doesn´t mean that Wild Medicine is ok. It should be loooked into deeply, to ensure it doesn´t become like the PvP set in live. What I´m saying is that HRs (and other classes) should be designed in a way that is robust enough to make the game fun also for those who experience a little bit of lag. Obviously having no lag should be a benefit but not the end of it all.
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Also again why I think it needs to be toned down... I mean we just went over the proc and everything. Say 35k HP... @ 2.5% for HD = 875/15 sec = 58Heal/sec*10 stacks = 580 HP a second.... and this is the NERFED (HD) version with almost 100% uptime....
Im sorry man, but if this is NEEDED to be viable in pvp there are clearly other issues with the class. Again, I dont want this class to fail I want fair fights and nothing like mod2 and mod3 have been. Both mods were fun at first, then because of broken issues (like emblem - which I had btw) it just isnt fun anymore. Mod 3 was the same thing and also why I havnt even been pvping lately - its just boring when its all the same meta.
What I think would be FAIR is 1) easier to get to the "max" benefit of this ability 2) the "max" ability is less "potent". So even something like:
Deflecting attacks causes you to heal for 8% of your HP over 5 seconds, DOESNT stack. New deflects refresh the buff. - This means you deflect an attack and get almost 300 heal per second.... Youd have almost 100% uptime on this though. So thats 900/3 sec... I mean compare that to any other T3 feat.... Again, takes less "build up" but is much more potent than even 3-4 stacks of the current proc....
it just makes is less of a feat where you can build up 10 stacks, then go hide with your daily, or just kite around for 6-8 seconds while you regen a ton of HP. Its more about staying in combat, healing off deflected blows - giving incentive to stay in the fight.
CWs - got TWO massive "tone downs" with this latest patch. Shield and assailing force are both HALF as effective as before... The "last" of the OP feats (IMO) is this self heal from Wilds... But this should all put everything in the realm of balance...
You do have a bit hard time understanding what people write dont you.
Let me take you through this like a would a 10 year old and see if you get it this time...
WE DO NOT HAVE CC
WE DONT HAVE CC BREAK so we cant kite around as we get cced and killed as soon as we get focused by more then 1 and the only thing that can keep us alive is our ability to regenerate HP.
Now ALL you suggest is nerfing of the healing ability so we arent that good 1-1 because frankly we are not better then gf or gwf but rather worse when focused by more then 1..
We have NO VALID PVE/PVP build we have to either go full pvp or full pve to be of use in groups(yes we are not alone about this but gwf gf is not one of those classes).
We have NO VALID GROUP UTILITY making us desirable in groups either in pvp like gfs or in pve like dc.
The reason I object to your one sided never ending qq about the healing of Hrs is that you REFUSE to see any other side of the class but the ability to being able to beat you in 1-1.
THIS IS NOT A 1-1 built game in pvp or pve dungeons mkay.
Before you start thinking with the inside that was given to you to be used I strongly suggest you stay in your own class forum with feedback that actually comes from playing the class and might have some bearing to why it is written.........
We are not hiding behind it. In current preview tested today - with deflect around 40-50 change depending from gear. and top deflect gear meens damage halfed or more. - i could not stack it in IWD more then 5 on epic encounter. - like traders or totem. just because it expires. and we are talking about pathfinder with aroud 1500 regen. it takes like half of my health from atack that take WD up to 5. So yeah - there is a lucky change you can get like 2-3 cw atacking you with beam - it is important since it is low damage atack really - that you can stack WM hight - but it is a very very rare case as i can see it.
Don't forget it heals for 15 sec but only with 5 tick on 3 secs.
Nerfing of 20% healing bonus and nerf of AoLF, profound, Constructing Arrow - we lost much more then we gained
If the HR on preview stopped getting attacked for 5 seconds (it's possible for them to stop taking damage for that amount of time) they will heal MORE then the damage that procced their medicine, which is completely unbias as every other healing ability for every other class NEVER heals for more then the damage dealt/taken. It's absurd that you think this isn't op.
CRAZY MIKE - 14.6k PvE CW
Backbone - 16.7k PvP HR
[SIGPIC]http://i59.tinypic.com/s3hts7.png[/SIGPIC]
It is not absurd - I play HR as my main. And i play it. you talk about it. I know how much I heal now. I had to switch to pathfinder to live in pvp. otherwise - one CC im dead. CW take like half of my health with frozen blade now. so don't try to tell me what is abusurd.
with same hr in profund - gs ~16k - it take me a minute on no atack to heal to 75%. And if you use math - subject from school - and reading - you will see that WM works for 15 sec. Not after 10 stack for 15 sec - just 15 sec for each. so you can be healed only
5% over 15 sec.
And again - if you are atacked- atack meens you take damage!
HRs are tankier then any other class on the preview atm, they just heal up more then they take damage. I don't want to insult your logic but if you think it should stay the way it is then your sorely mistaken. It's too op of a feat, if it was in the nature tree then I wouldn't have such a hard time accepting it because at the minute melee hr's can take down anyone and go full hp before then fight is even over, without using pots or waters artifact
CRAZY MIKE - 14.6k PvE CW
Backbone - 16.7k PvP HR
[SIGPIC]http://i59.tinypic.com/s3hts7.png[/SIGPIC]
There is NO class in the game that should HAVE to rely on a "T3" Feat to sruvive. The fact that this ONE ability seems to be a "make it or break it" ability for you tell me the class is clearly not working as intended...
As a capstone? I could see something LIKE this being almost this powerful.
Again I think crazymikee, really nailed it. That if you dont get hit for 5 seconds, youll heal for a TON of HP...
You mentioned you had trouble even getting stacks in the first place, so you should actually LIKE my suggestion (Deflecting attacks causes you to heal for 8% of your HP over 5 seconds, DOESNT stack. New deflects refresh the buff. )... It requires NO stacking. Once you DO deflect an attack, you generate a buff that gives you a nice HoT... Its not AS good as the current stacking, but requires NO stacking and should be able to have near 100% uptime....
If you have issues with surviving, maybe the issue is in the classes powers/encounters and (dare I say it) the way you play as well... Having ONE T3 feat being THIS good - is just rather ridiculous. Even if it were a capstone it would be insane.....
Again, so YOU should be in FAVOR of my suggestion if this is actually true....
Deflecting attacks causes you to heal for 8% of your HP over 5 seconds, DOESNT stack. New deflects refresh the buff.
Do the math, if what you say is true (5 stacks) This means you had 25% of your HP over 15 seconds and it was HARD to stack... Then fell off.
If you have DECENT HP in IWD + Pet youll be at 35k easily. So you should have been healing for about 580HP/S ?
Well my option youd heal 560 HP/S with ZERO stacking involved. You take damage and deflect, you heal 560HP/S.....
What I see from your post is:
1) Its not good enough in PVE - because you dont get hit enough to deflect enough to keep stacking this
2) Its TOO good in PVP when you "get lucky" with so many procs....
My solution meets you in the middle, at what I think is actually pretty balanced...
if HRs need more to survive, then propose changes to encounters or dailies or class features.
But asking to leave a T3 feat alone thats causing you to outheal alot of damage able to be dealt in PVP? Thats just silly....
I agree regarding the wild medicine feat. Its just way too good. I dont use it or the set bonus that used to grant the same thing for the very reason that its just too good. It feels way too cheap.
I don't know what fights you're looking at but last time I tested on preview with the latest changes, I died in multiple 1v1s, most notably to CWs.
In any case, 1v1 doesn't matter in this game except for node-contesting. HR dies to competent 2v1 (unlike TR), and CW and GWF are the best teammates to have when ganging up on someone.
Listen. Wilds Medicine is intended to help combat HRs who must get in melee range survive. It's the equivlant of stealth, ITC, or unstoppable.
How about we remove unstoppable entirely and give you an 8% heal over 5 seconds on deflects.
The only damage we can potentially outheal is something like spamming ray of frost. Which I'm sure CrazyMike is doing.
Low damage/fast attack = deflects and heals.
You also forget that the Combat HR (which will have the Medicine Feat, as a TIER THREE Feat) has, in his Feat Path, NO Feat to increase Crit Chance, and only gets bonuses to damage when you gang up on it.
Simply obey the advice everyone who is complaining about Perma TRs is getting: You can't kill them (unless they mess up), but they can't put a dent in you either. So just move to the next node.
What the 'Waaah, HRs are healing too much' are whining about and want is a 'Baseline' Nerf that would cripple the Combat Path into a PvP Spec AGAIN. Which is quite obviously not going to happen. If you actually check some of the things on preview, the new 'Empire' Set, from the Tyranny Campaign, is actually giving out even more Deflection than Royal Guard, which, to this point, is pretty much 'Meta' for PvE (and has, to my knowledge, been the 'Meta' Armor Set before the Tenacity Patch in PvP, too).
And the 'Kill the HR in a short time frame' - that is called 'Spec for Burst, not plinkplinkplink knifethrowing or DoTs'. Or maybe try 'Non Staged' (aka not using 'basically no damage' skills like Ray of Frost only) fights against CWs that adapted to the new paths and don't hump DoTs all day.
No, what it replaces is the set-bonus, which was given to us because our survival sucks, and a combat HR needs to be in melee range.
It's strong for a feat, sure, but it's necessary if an HR is to live in combat range.
It's unusual, but so is a melee oriented class (Combat HR is melee oriented) without any CC to speak of, no CC break, no reliable CC-immunity (our dodges suck, despite having 5) and general squishiness (and we are squishy without self-healing).
Forget it's a feat and forget unstoppable is a class trait, or ITC is an ability. They're all similar in that they exist because melee-range is inherently dangerous.
Personally, I'm sick to death of relying on passive self-healing to live in PVP, but unless the Devs want to give us a CC-break and reliable immunity, it's the only way we're going to have a chance since we're GOING to take hits.
Not TR, which you note.
HR functions much like a TR in PVP, it's great in contesting nodes. The difference is an HR dies to 2+ people. A TR won't if he doesn't want to.
This brings diversity to the game, with classes performing different roles. Neither a TR or HR is a top-pick for group fights, but they're both very good 1v1 (HR a bit better, but TR better 2+v1). In group fights, neither brings any cc to speak of nor any burst, which are the main 2 things you want in group fights.
The big problem is you and others are basing your suggestions on 1v1 fights. An HR is supposed to be great 1v1, otherwise it doesn't have much of a role in PVP without CC and burst.
The Devs are right to not base all PVP balance on 1v1, otherwise diversity disappears.
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As you are a HR yourself, you (as well as the 'NERF WM' criers) might be aware that the LS applies to Melee Stance Damage, and the 'Armor Ignoring Damage' applies to Melee Stance Damage, too. So get a CW in your team who, on a 'Medicine-less' HR shuts the HR down from closing in on the team (can only Fox/Boar/Marauder in every so often, as you know), and rip him to shreds. Plus the new 'Freeze only breaks when Control Resist says it breaks', and you have a dead HR once the HR is frozen and the CW throws in some Burst Damage instead of pitiful DoTs. The LS stacks from the feats run out rather fast, so you can't really maintain them in ranged mode for a long time, and in ranged, you can't reapply them either.
Since they now have shown that they can have Skills and Feats work differently in PvP and PvE, it might be better to suggest a 'When under the Effects of Healing Depression, the Base Value of this is halved' Effect, so, instead of 50% on Medicine, scale it down to 25%, that would be 12.5% over 15 Seconds, or 2.5% MaxHP per 3 Seconds.
10-Stack Medicine would be, what the 'Nerfcriers' want, killed off and more or less useless in PvP, but it would still allow any Ranger to survive PvE Melee without being a Ballerina that is over 50% of the time plinking away at range without applying the feats they actually invested in.
This would also allow a HR that still survives the fight to benefit from Medicine, when out of Combat and HD is gone, since the remaining Stacks would tick at maximum Power, to top the HR off again.
However, given the fact that the HR lost direct DR (and with that, taking more damage from the rest of the hit that isn't deflected), in a PvE Bossfight, where the boss, 'Whole Floor is Red' and 'Addtastic AoE Sausagefest' applies, Medicine is triggering often enough to allow the Combat HR to stay in combat, as long as they dodge the REALLY heavy hitters.
you must consider other variables you have to conciser in mod 4 most likely for PvP i will be bringing Control resist artifacts cuas that is one thing that can kill me but from what i hear oppressor CW lose alot of dmg for all that frozen control but then again i am not a CW so i don't know their skill feat layout
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That's why the PvE Medicine must stay as it is now, with a change to the way it works in PvP. As I said, a mechanic that moves it from 25% over 15 to 12.5% over 15 (aka 75% Depression, on Medicine only).
I'm not a PvP geared or PvP skilled player, but this, in theory, should be easy to test for a more dedicated PvPer, just put only 3 Points into Medicine, keep the Rest as it is, 2 Feat points unspent. Under HD, this should give 15%, which should be close enough, maybe even run a Test Series at 2 Points in Medicine, 3 Unspent first.
Edit: And since a HR can't hide away as easily as a TR, and has to work harder to properly disengage (well, unless using Marauder stacked with other Movespeed boosts, or rather chained) than a TR, the 'Full Power Medicine' might top off the HR again, but since he can't hide as well, you can catch him and try to hit him, sending Medicine to 'LolNope' strength again.
Again, if this is your suggestion, mine is much better. Your suggesting a 50% nerf to the already 50% (by HD) Wilds.
So do the math, 12.5% over 15 seconds is .833% Hp/S * 10 = .833% HP/S at MAX stacks - which takes quite some build up (but not even with some enchants or classes with DoTs)
I said 8% of HP (so 4% with HD) over 5 seconds with NO stacking - This is .8% HP/S with ZERO build up.
What is funny is marnival is saying that in PVE its not even that good since he hardly deflects, your saying its needed. Even this changed version above ALL you need to do is deflect 1x and then BAM (in PVE) 8% HP over 5 seconds = 1.6% HP a second!
Alot of classes can get 2k regen. GWFs/GFs get a ton from BI set. Regen is fine, but Wilds will actually heal for over your regen (and it can be FULL effect at 100% HP too - while regen cant)
with 40k HP and 2k regen at <50% HP in PVP youll see around 1400-1600 ticks / 3 sec?
With 40k HP and Wilds stacks your looking at (again) about 2,000 ticks / 3 sec (equiv). And it doesnt matter how much HP you have....
So its EASILY out healing even regen and what I think is partially the issue in PVP, is since it lasts 15 seconds, you can kite around, go invis, etc for several seconds and keep reneging alot of health.
Again, I dont want the class nerfed into oblivion which is why I keep thinking 8% HP over 5 seconds after a deflect. This is STILL VERY powerful for both PVE and PVP. Has ZERO build up, you deflect once and you start healing.
So 40k HP this is STILL 920 HP / 3 sec... This is STILL ontop of your regen ticks.... And lifesteal etc. Just not AS cheesy as a heal lasting over 15 seconds that easily will be outhealing your regen. I even think THIS is too strong for just a feat IMO, however it seems HRs 'NEED' this to even play their class....
You are not getting what I mean.
You want to shoehorn the Combat Path into a PvP only something. Back where it is.
Wilds Medicine ticks every 3 Seconds, so 5 Ticks over 3 Seconds. In PvE, current Medicine thus regenerates 10% MaxHP per Tick, when fully stacked, or 3.33 (repeating)% a second.
In PvP, current Medicine still ticks every 3 seconds, with HD, that's 5% MaxHP every 3 Seconds, or 1.6 (repeating) a second.
My suggestion, yes, puts it at 0.833% hp/s or 2.5%/3s.
YOUR suggestion, with a maxed out 8% MaxHP over 15, now lets do the math, shall we? Over 15, this would, in PvE, be 24% of MaxHP. So an OVER 50% Nerf to PvE. But what to expect from a PvP GWF.
In PvP, at 4% due to HD, it would be at 0.8%. So while it would be 'easier' to get the maximum, it would also mean even more of a reduction. My suggestion would mean that a 'Burst' (aka picking Terror or Vorpal Enchant, instead of using DoT Type Enchants) Character might be able to overcome a HRs Medicine easier, especially when not whacking into Meditation like a brainless monkey.
Plus your suggestion would give, what, 1.6%/5 per rank of the Feat? You better suggest a bonus to DR then, too.
Edit:
And, if you did not notice it, for some reason - they redid the HR to give it 3 viable paths, each with a different playstyle. A hybrid will get 'the best of all worlds', a Trapper/Archer/Combat HR (less than 20 Points in a tree: Hybrid, to me) always gives something up. The current 'Combat HR' is a ballerina that has to pull out every so often to not get flattened by the AoE that the bunched up mobs throw out, thus either lowering uptime on the mobs, or having to resort to plinking away with skills not benefitting from the, oh, very feats you have increased.
I must ask you to level a HR on Live. No transferred AD or Gear (including Enchants) from other characters, only Auctionhousing stuff you aquire with AD generated by the character itself, normal playstyle (aka no 'stay level 5 to cycle Blacklake'), every dungeon and skirm done via queue, no help from highlevels to drag you through. Aka leveling like a pure free player would do it. And - play as COMBAT Ranger. And then, I ask you to gear as Combat HR, actively participating in Combat, via Epicmode Dungeons. Invoking is allowed, Leadership is allowed, too.
Your suggestion turns Combat into a '15k and upwards GS' Path.
Your missing what I said, I didnt say over 15 seconds I said 8% over 5 seconds. Again, it requires ZERO stacking, you are comparing the feat with 10 stacks - which is what many HRs are saying is that its NOT OP because it takes stacking. OK well lets remove the stacking, put it to HP over 5 seconds. Raise it up quite a bit.
Both our HP/S is roughly the same for PVP EXCEPT yours requires stacking, mine doesnt. This also gives a more immediate boost to HR than having to stack and wait for healing. Its really stupid that on the PTR right now, quite a few classes cant even out DPS WildsMedicine at full stacks...
and this is way you are getting another +40% damage boost throught marking on top of all the %%%%%%%% boosts you have.
seriously ayroux sometimes you are a bit biased.
the only that should be worried by rangers at the moment are the tr but as tr i m worried about all classes right now except DCs so doesnt matter that much.
Everyone has bias its impossible not to, but when mod 3 came out and GWFs were REALLY OP, I made a detailed thread saying GWFs are dealing too much damage, and posted how to tone them back. So while I DO have an inherent tendency to look out for my class, I am MORE concerned with balance between all the classes.
I wont even (most likely) be playing a GWF mod 4, but I am testing my GWF out in order to give feedback. I also posted (see the GWF thread) saying it is a stupid idea to give mark like they have (btw its only 35% if you feat for it), and Powerful Challenge needs to move into the Sent Tree (15% of that 35%), Ive also posted saying Detroyer (T4) feat which accounts for 37.5% of the damage DEstoryers have in pvp should be removed for PVP purposes as well.... I also posed saying to remove CC immunity on Sprint as well, so I dont think anyone can say im JUST looking out for my own classes...
I dont even PVP right now because its too boring and ALL about class makeup/META. I dont want mod 4 to be the same HAMSTER all over again. TRs will be getting an overhaul much like GWFs/GFs/CWs have for mod 4.
HRs have plenty of "tankiness" even toning WM down a bit, if you dont, your playing it wrong (not you raydan - general Whiners about HR).
8%, no need to stack, over 5 Seconds.
Now, lets compare to the same it would heal over 15 seconds, if it fired back to back. 8% (First Proc) + 8% (Second Proc) + 8% (Third Proc) --> 24% over 15, if right in the moment it went down, you would deflect again.
Compared to 50% over 15s, but needing to be stacked.
And even if a new Deflection would just replace the previous, it is still a lower amount. 48% of the original, to be precise. Congratulations, feat killed for everyone but people with a PvP Spec, and with this, the whole Feat Line outside of PvP is dead, too. GG.
Please go back to your GWF forum and spew your delusions there.
Weren't people like YOU advocating for 'bring every other class up to CW/GWF niveau', while those 2 classes were facerolling everything left, right and in the middle? Now, the tables have turned.
Tests are biased due to people 'duping' assets over via Charcopy, to generate R8, 9 or 10 Enchants, and test with Gear they might not even have on Live, and would not get close to having there for quite some time.
Yes, it might be over the top with overgeared people in BiS gear with BiS Enchants, Perfects, and the ability to switch out their whole gear in the few seconds of break in PvP, or during stealth.
Lets see how it works with people that aren't BiS, with R8 or upwards (Hint: R5 is more to what the actual target group of the game is wearing, Enchant wise, in some cases not even Armor or Weapon Enchants, not even a Lesser), and hope that if it becomes over the top OUTSIDE of your little 'Perfect everything' Club, it isn't going to become a joyride like GWF had for Mod2, with DG, or CW had from release, with EotS.
I am testing with CASUAL gear, as a CASUAL player, can YOU say the same?
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Please its cutted in half in pvp and its not like they dont have bursts...come on gwfs have like 120 per cent damage boost via feats and class features and i dont have seen the warlock yet!!
If the warlock can get it to 30% health all he has to do is killing flames it if he cant i am not sure if any of his DoTs or spells in general will kill it
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