Some changes to unstoppable were needed for pvp, however everything else is wrong. Good pvp'ers were able to dodge fls, takedown, and ibs with dodge or block. TR probably needed something. I would have just gone for a damage nerf or a charges nerf not both however. Have you actually watched the GWF and seen how long the animations are before they hit?
Yes, but IV is a tanking paragon its from the Tank Class the Guardian Fighter, I don't know why they gave you guys the tanking paragon but buffed all the damage by 3 times the amount. I think they are reverting it back to a tanking path.
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Yes, but IV is a tanking paragon its from the Tank Class the Guardian Fighter, I don't know why they gave you guys the tanking paragon but buffed all the damage by 3 times the amount. I think they are reverting it back to a tanking path.
There is no tanking in this game though. IV is a pvp path imo. Talking about tanking is why the GF is in bad shape. In a game that has been designed to not require using the trinity, a tank is just a substandard class that can't clear content well.
There is no tanking in this game though. IV is a pvp path imo. Talking about tanking is why the GF is in bad shape. In a game that has been designed to not require using the trinity, a tank is just a substandard class that can't clear content well.
Well there we agree! It looks like GF will not get much in the DR or DPS department. You guys can still do both though... I may swap to Warlock if the GF still isn't viable in end game pvp / pve
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Well there we agree! It looks like GF will not get much in the DR or DPS department. You guys can still do both though... I may swap to Warlock if the GF still isn't viable in end game pvp / pve
Have you seen the changes for GF announced today? They will be wanted for end game if it stays like this, for sure.
This is exactly correct. I have posted here several times what the EXACT issues were with GWFs in LIVE. YOu make excellent points however one of the biggest reasons for the nerf is the matchmaking system.
It pits high ELO with low ELO to "balance teams" this causes a 16k+GS with perfects to face a 10k GS CW with lessers. Who then gets 1 rotation killed, or crit for 18k+ with IBS who complains they cant handle GWFs. GWFs are probably the easiest class to play TBH - mainly because of Unstoppable.
All that said, I 100% agree with you and am fearful for the future of GWFs. I know I DONT want to play my GWf mod 4, not because they wont be OP, but because they will feel helpless. Helpless in the sense that they wont be able to control things in order to hit them. Sentinels will have the ability to withstand damage but with all these crazy nerfs to damage like FLS and takedown, that really just hurts the other specs. The issue was never the SKILLS damage abilities but the feats of the Destroyer itself.
I too will post this one last time and let it go. Hopefully the DEVs will listen, probably not.
THE REAL ISSUE WITH GWFS:
1) Roar was a stun that gave determination, and has a LOW CD. This not only stunned characters for 2 seconds, but also built our ability to use unstoppable more often without taking damage. With the stun fix, less GWFs will slot this and HAVE to slot FLS - meaning LESS often stuns, LESS determination = LESS tanky GWFs (also less damage too since it was roar+takedown that delt alot and VERY often!)
2) Unstoppable Recovery was NOT respecting HD. Many times I have ACT this and this one feat provided an INSANE amount of healing. Frankly this is what makes GWFs FEEL so tanky. NOW that this is gone, you will see a BIG difference in the GWFs ability ti live long duration fights.
3) Destroyer's Purpose Stacks. This one feat combined with the Capstone is what gave IBS and takedown their insane damage. If they re-focus this feat BACK to a PVE feat, removing it from PVP alligns GWFs damage to where it should probably be. Take this ONE feat off, and GWFs lose the ability to (by themsevles) get even over 10k takedowns. If the target has debuffs thats different. All you need here is to less the proc chance to 10% off ANY attack and itll be only used in PVE.
If you REALLY feel the need to nerf GWFs tankiness further, do the 15-30% Unstoppable. Im fine with that nerf as well eventhough its honestly not needed.
Im honestly even fine with prones moving to stuns due to deflect issue. Thats fine with me too. But you should realize thats a damage nerf to GWFs who heavily relied on prones to deal alot of damage.
You SHOULDNT nerf takedown or FLS damage at all TBH.
What I find is REALLY funny, GWFs have a massive 2h sword but their at wills and encounters (base) hit weaker than all the other classes... Its ONLY through the capstone feat that Destroyers really get damage. Sure Strike hits for what 600? My GFs at will hits for 2x that.... With half the weapon damage. A TR with little daggers hits for north of 1000, heck even "cloud of steel" hits harder and thats throwing a little dagger......
GWFs NEED close combat "control" abilities to be able to deal damage, sure they dont need prones. But overall I think some of these nerfs are a little overbaord.
I will reply to you because your not a troll.
I take great issue with your #3.
Removing Destroyers Purpose from the PvP Destroyer would wreck the Destroyer as much as any of the current Mod 4 changes. I'm not sure why you would even suggest that TBH. Before Destroyers Purpose, Sentinel was literally the only viable spec for PvP, as a Destroyer I certainly can't support that.
If you understand that it's a gear related issue certainly you know that VS people in Profound: IBS+DEST PURP crits for around 7.5k average with Peferct Vorpal. With a way lower average when you include non crits which are about 65% of IBS strikes since only 30-40% of attacks will actually be crits. (yes I have parsed many matches)
The big 18k hits people talk about really only happen on people with little to no tenacity and low defense when the attacker is using P.Vorp. or G.Pla., and are not actually the norm.
I'm not looking to make GWF PvP Sentinel only again i'd rather keep the mod 4 changes than remove Destroyers Purpose.
This is exactly correct. I have posted here several times what the EXACT issues were with GWFs in LIVE. YOu make excellent points however one of the biggest reasons for the nerf is the matchmaking system.
It pits high ELO with low ELO to "balance teams" this causes a 16k+GS with perfects to face a 10k GS CW with lessers. Who then gets 1 rotation killed, or crit for 18k+ with IBS who complains they cant handle GWFs. GWFs are probably the easiest class to play TBH - mainly because of Unstoppable.
All that said, I 100% agree with you and am fearful for the future of GWFs. I know I DONT want to play my GWf mod 4, not because they wont be OP, but because they will feel helpless. Helpless in the sense that they wont be able to control things in order to hit them. Sentinels will have the ability to withstand damage but with all these crazy nerfs to damage like FLS and takedown, that really just hurts the other specs. The issue was never the SKILLS damage abilities but the feats of the Destroyer itself.
I too will post this one last time and let it go. Hopefully the DEVs will listen, probably not.
THE REAL ISSUE WITH GWFS:
1) Roar was a stun that gave determination, and has a LOW CD. This not only stunned characters for 2 seconds, but also built our ability to use unstoppable more often without taking damage. With the stun fix, less GWFs will slot this and HAVE to slot FLS - meaning LESS often stuns, LESS determination = LESS tanky GWFs (also less damage too since it was roar+takedown that delt alot and VERY often!)
2) Unstoppable Recovery was NOT respecting HD. Many times I have ACT this and this one feat provided an INSANE amount of healing. Frankly this is what makes GWFs FEEL so tanky. NOW that this is gone, you will see a BIG difference in the GWFs ability ti live long duration fights.
3) Destroyer's Purpose Stacks. This one feat combined with the Capstone is what gave IBS and takedown their insane damage. If they re-focus this feat BACK to a PVE feat, removing it from PVP alligns GWFs damage to where it should probably be. Take this ONE feat off, and GWFs lose the ability to (by themsevles) get even over 10k takedowns. If the target has debuffs thats different. All you need here is to less the proc chance to 10% off ANY attack and itll be only used in PVE.
If you REALLY feel the need to nerf GWFs tankiness further, do the 15-30% Unstoppable. Im fine with that nerf as well eventhough its honestly not needed.
Im honestly even fine with prones moving to stuns due to deflect issue. Thats fine with me too. But you should realize thats a damage nerf to GWFs who heavily relied on prones to deal alot of damage.
You SHOULDNT nerf takedown or FLS damage at all TBH.
What I find is REALLY funny, GWFs have a massive 2h sword but their at wills and encounters (base) hit weaker than all the other classes... Its ONLY through the capstone feat that Destroyers really get damage. Sure Strike hits for what 600? My GFs at will hits for 2x that.... With half the weapon damage. A TR with little daggers hits for north of 1000, heck even "cloud of steel" hits harder and thats throwing a little dagger......
GWFs NEED close combat "control" abilities to be able to deal damage, sure they dont need prones. But overall I think some of these nerfs are a little overbaord.
I honestly don't think you should bring the TR. Daggers and knife logic in to this because it's a fantasy game and in this fantasy game they're supposed to be the hardest hitting class. But if we're bringing logic in then so be it. No halfling GWFs. FLS is impossible because the shield isn't even there.. What kind of warrior gets scared by another dude roaring. How does take down even work on GFs and other GWFs who have heavy armor in fact how does it work on anyone if the actual blade doesn't hurt or take them down they why should the hilt... Why aren't the GWFs fatigue after they turned in to a big red monster and unleashed everything they got?
I honestly don't think you should bring the TR. Daggers and knife logic in to this because it's a fantasy game and in this fantasy game they're supposed to be the hardest hitting class. But if we're bringing logic in then so be it. No halfling GWFs. FLS is impossible because the shield isn't even there.. What kind of warrior gets scared by another dude roaring. How does take down even work on GFs and other GWFs who have heavy armor in fact how does it work on anyone if the actual blade doesn't hurt or take them down they why should the hilt... Why aren't the GWFs fatigue after they turned in to a big red monster and unleashed everything they got?
the point is: gwf has by far and handily, the worst base damage of the game. class needs to "A" - a lot of stacks created in special conditions, "B" the opportunity to "grind the enemy slowly." (what is sad by a 2 hands sword)
yes, the old iv have both, but the "New gwf" nothing. seems to me that the idea of balance is "if the class has an excess of it, you cut, and improves other aspect (dilemmas?). BUT lost utility in Module 2 to preserve damage (destroyer only) now lose control, "tank" and damage (13% in past and now takedown/iv) to gain... nothing.
ah, now i run like the wind ... but the wind dont do dps ...
ps: now i see the new changes in gf/ranger... that gwf thread is a big joke... for what, my good lord, you need a sentinel to "tank" or destroyer for dps?
Good pvp'ers were able to dodge fls, takedown, and ibs with dodge or block.
Blunt lie all i all. Since gwf got IV path dodges was just a time delay from landing Take down and once you got Take down in the FS and IBS followed or FS into a crowd you always got at least one and the cc chain followed.
TR was a game changer and before bleed was changed and module 3 we all used FS instead of roar.
TR does 2-4 k and can be spammed until the poor victim ran out of dodges and then take down landed as it only had 3 sec cold down if missed.
That changed to something even more efficient the famous roar with 6-7 sec cool down instead of FS whish made it even easer to land Take down and IBS.
I stopped playing gwf just because it was to OP plain and simple. Going out of most pvp matches 12+kills and 0-2 kills and that being at enemy base most of the time just got a bit boring much like eating stake every day to much of the good tend to take the thrill out of it.
There are always talk about players that can handle gwfs just dont know how to play and that is some serious bull****.
We will have to watch and see what these changes will bring in terms of balance but i have no hopes what so ever that gwfs will be easier to handle in pvp after stam change and run immunity/30%dr change.
Gwfs is a crafty bunch and from those changes I seen so far adapting overcome and conquer is exactly what the gwfs will do. (in fact am pretty sure that as movability is a key factor and so is cc immunity in pvp gwfs will once they changed around some feats/powers and gear come out even stronger then before even if they require some more skill then facrolling keyboard in future).
If right now, we, GWF-players, have a lot of hard times dealing with TRs, HRs, CWs and GFs, afters these buffs on them (yes, applied on us too... "wow") i dont want to imagine how harder it will become after these buffs... TBH, right now, you are unbalancing and even broken the game.
Dam clonkyo1 you never let me down when i need a laugh :rolleyes:.
I just went pugging with my gwf just for the fun of it as i dont play him any more and let me see mm 21-0, 18-1, 27-0, 9-5(hard one that we lost) was my score so much for *hard time dealing with whatever just lol.
That the changed hr to the worse, nerfed cws dam given you the ability to shift trough immunity to ccs between sprint and unstop + 40% less stam drain when sprinting, completely missed your radar naturally as usal..
Why not suggest that they reverse the all the nerfs and keep 40% less stam when sprinting and the 30%DR/immunity while doing so also, am sure you going to need it badly now that they buffed all the other classes so hard.
Dont forget to visit the DCs forum and suggest they lessen their dam so they hurt you to much :eek:.....
I won't disagree that the top 20 is not a totally accurate picture of the whole, but I don't have a way to parse the leaderboard better with out posting dozens of pictures. And I am not saying GWF isn't powerful, I'm just saying it's not the total GWF domination people say it is. I'm not even saying GWF doesn't need some adjustments. I'm just saying they need to be less than the current MOD 4 amount.
I'm mostly fine with 15/30, i'm also ok with a minor reduction in damage.
The only thing I really am suggesting for is a lessening of the FLS damage reduction, perhaps 10-15% vs 30%, FLS is also PVE tool and regularly equals around 15% of my damage in PvE second only to Wicked Strike. And I feel Takedown needs to prone because Destroyer GWF's really need at least one reliable lead into IBS. The damage on Takedown can be reduced as long as the net effect is that it's still has a function.
And I have done as much testing as I can on the test server, though what I can really test is limited since the PVP que never runs.
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reagenlionel1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Blunt lie all i all. Since gwf got IV path dodges was just a time delay from landing Take down and once you got Take down in the FS and IBS followed or FS into a crowd you always got at least one and the cc chain followed.
TR was a game changer and before bleed was changed and module 3 we all used FS instead of roar.
TR does 2-4 k and can be spammed until the poor victim ran out of dodges and then take down landed as it only had 3 sec cold down if missed.
That changed to something even more efficient the famous roar with 6-7 sec cool down instead of FS whish made it even easer to land Take down and IBS.
I stopped playing gwf just because it was to OP plain and simple. Going out of most pvp matches 12+kills and 0-2 kills and that being at enemy base most of the time just got a bit boring much like eating stake every day to much of the good tend to take the thrill out of it.
There are always talk about players that can handle gwfs just dont know how to play and that is some serious bull****.
We will have to watch and see what these changes will bring in terms of balance but i have no hopes what so ever that gwfs will be easier to handle in pvp after stam change and run immunity/30%dr change.
Gwfs is a crafty bunch and from those changes I seen so far adapting overcome and conquer is exactly what the gwfs will do. (in fact am pretty sure that as movability is a key factor and so is cc immunity in pvp gwfs will once they changed around some feats/powers and gear come out even stronger then before even if they require some more skill then facrolling keyboard in future).
It is not a lie. That is the truth. I can do that, consistantly on live right now, and have been. As I said plenty of times concerning this. the only problem I ever had was the garranteed cc chain rotation with no way out of it because prones do not respect tenacity. Once you're hit with one, you're at the mercy at every single one of those skills back to back. But you can dodge consistantly from getting hit from them. Only trouble is stamina isnt always in your favor in those encounters.
But you don't play it. There is a reason I don't post in the GF feedback threads. I don't play it and I don't have a good understanding of all the abilities and requirements of the class. You don't understand how the GWF works, how it's feats work, what gear it needs to make things work, what is required to play one well, how to counter one well.
I have both a GF and a GWF. Rip's analysis is (mostly) spot-on. My impression of most GWFs is that since they do not have anything to compare it to they do not see how their class is OP. That unstoppable is likely better than villians menace and fighter's recovery combined and procs twice as often. That their dailies 'are'nt that good' even though avalanch has more potential DPS than any daily in the game. And I am sure most encouters have dissapointing outcomes compared to IBS. Because they do. Basically the GWF for the last 2 mods has been easy mode. And again I have one and I use him. And if you don't also have a GF to compare it to you are likely blind to this.
I am posting feedback in counter to yours, I too have Experience and a Strong attack, that's moot... You guys wont be happy until they revert your class to Faceroll again! It's nauseating
Destroyers shouldn't be able to be tanky, your a DPS class that does 40% more DPS then a tanky HR. You could go low DPS high survival too!
As far as HR I totally agree with you they're ridiculous atm, but that doesn't mean GWF need to be boosted!
Many GWFs already proposed several nerfs and changes to the class. Plus, all that's being said is that some stuff must be changed such as faster animation on flourish and other things i already explained in detail to you above. I really explained how things work and why some changes to flourish and FLS are needed. Plus, i also explained how Roar original effect (rooting) being removed ON TOP of the fixes to the bugs, was not really needed.
Yet you wrote a false statement, saying that "we want our class reverted to faceroll", even though the proposed changes do not suggest it.
Right now HRs and even perma TRs are ALREADY more survivable and able to troll multiple enemies compared to GWFs. On live. You'd have more experience, you'd have noticed this. Permas can go on-off point and keep trolling the enemy base against multiple enemies way longer than any tank GWF does. GWFs are not used as "point holders" anymore. The job is done by TRs, HRs and tank DCs.
Also, i already explained why Unstoppable DR is not really an issue if you know how to play. Simple reason is, GWFs already can't tank multiple enemies due to healing depression, and in 1v1 the enemy is not supposed to be hitting you during unstoppable. If people knew how to play (not use encounters on an Unstoppable GWF), they wouldn't have a problem with unstoppable and the slower determination gain would have been enough. Even in Mod 4, if you're going to use your encounters on an Unstoppable GWF even with just 15% more DR, you'd be a ****, wasting your DPS.
There are many things that are out of reality in your "feedback", and people tried to tell you this multiple times.
As for the changes WE proposed on flourish and the other stuff, it's a simple matter: if you play a GWF, you know few things.
1) you can't compare it to a HR or TR. These classes have tools to avoid damage entirely (TR has ITC, stealth and dodge roll immunities, HR is RANGED CLASS with 5 immunity dodges), while GWFs are a melee class with no immunity to damage. Which means, they are being hit all the time. Of course even Destroyers are more tanky than a HR or TR. Else, they would not even reach the enemy. But if you want to give them stealth or real ranged powers, you're free to drop their survivability to such levels.
2) To deal damage, you should know, you've to actually catch the enemy. And fast, since a GWF can't sit there and block like a GF. Now, with all ranged CC gone and FLS stun not being enough to link a takedown, how would you catch a perma TR, a HR or a CW. Let me hear.
Takedown is dodged with both eyes closed by any good CW/ TR/ HR and even GWF if you use it as your opening move. Any TR/ HR and CW also can dodge flourish, timing their dodge immunity move with its slow animation. IBS is not even to mention. It can land only if it follows a prone move. But with all prones gone, it can land only if following a takedown.
Now please, let us hear how your imaginary GWF would catch a CW/ HR/ or, even more difficult, permastealth TR in end game PvP, in module 4.
do we always have to reply same thing over and over again to other classes. cant they read previous posts about GWF .
every GWF suggested that roar had bug , but bug was it passing through CC immunity , but now its nerfed to sh/t power which no1 will use.
florish can easily be dodged with eyes closed , takedown is easily dodge with current shifts , and after mod 4 all shift powers will be more responsive , now takedown became more useless with no real dmg , they cld have removed the feat which increased takedown dmg by 25% , but no DEV decreased whole base dmg , so sent dmg is nothing , all class will have sharp weapons and GWF will have a blunt weapon now.
we r not even getting faster florish animation , so SM will have slowdown(takedown doesnt do as the name intended) and slowrish(not florish cause its toooo damnslow) .
IV path is useless , the only reason player used IV path was due too threatning rush , cause no actual stamina consumption , now they made stamin last 40% more still other class crying , but they dont know stamina consumed by GWF to chase all ranged class is way too much , most of the time b4 IV path GWF wld use all stamina then just try to catch them by walking till there stamina is slightly regenerated.
any1 posing here that GWF nerfs are good , plz post a video of GWF killing equally geared player of any class except GWF ofc, any other class with PVP guild can decimate all GWF players even which are 2k + GS above them , and thats the truth. tested and seen.
now since u r presenting ur argument that GWF is still OP or balanced , so plz show us in ur video . dont comment on it when u have not seen any GWF player playing in preview in PVP. in PVP GWF is nothing now , and even in live plz check leaderboards and u will see except 3 or 4 GWf all top players are HR or TR . sure GWF has some bugs but he is not point holder now but its been done by HR and TR.
plz think about what u type b4 posting ur comment and try to understand GWF players and there build and where they cming from. dont post baseless things subjected to ur imaginations.
No one used Roar before it was bugged! The only reason you use it now is to abuse and exploit a bugged encounter... It speaks volumes about ones character.
Furthermore I am playing on Preview and I do play with and against GWF, they take more damage but seem to be fine!
As far as if GWF will still be OP, I cannot say. Right now they seem toned down some but still very capable at pretty much everything they are doing on live albeit tanking 3 players solo.
You have a Sprint and an Unstoppable and now 3 Threatening Rushes. It was also overly abused an at will to close distance that hit for 5k, now you will need to use things wiser!
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited July 2014
Nah, guy. Nobody used Roar before it could be feated to reduce the cooldown to negligible levels. It's been bugged for yonks, but the recharge was still too long for it to be worth people abusing.
Not to say it isn't being abused, only that your explanation is a little backwards.
(Over time, it's gone in and out of PvE builds mostly for the sake of determination gain. During the Deep Gash era, it wasn't being used because it wouldn't help spread bleed damage.)
Nah, guy. Nobody used Roar before it could be feated to reduce the cooldown to negligible levels. It's been bugged for yonks, but the recharge was still too long for it to be worth people abusing.
Not to say it isn't being abused, only that your explanation is a little backwards.
(Over time, it's gone in and out of PvE builds mostly for the sake of determination gain. During the Deep Gash era, it wasn't being used because it wouldn't help spread bleed damage.)
Ok then, thanks for better clarity..
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
First at all, Rip just see us, GWF-players, as "whinners who doesnt want to get our class nerfed because we like to faceroll and being OP!".
this being said, i want to make a note about your coment: Right now, GWFs are on a really clear disadvantage, not only due the nerfs on the class, but also due the buffs on others classes. Right now (again, im talking on pure especulation using my own maths), a GF is more viable on PvE and PvP than a GWF, why? due "Knight" encounters. Right now, GWFs, on test/preview, does little to no damage at all so, the class itself cant contribute to any party's global performance: AoE DPS dealt by HRs, CC made by CWs, Heals made by DCs and tank, "kiting" and damage buffs by GFs. GWFs can AoE DPS with a more "tankines" than a HR, but will do less damage than HRs due the new buffs on the class (as i said, this is pure especulation based on my own maths). If they keep with these nerfs on GWFs, no one will pick them for PvE almost for sure, that is the reason i said "left GWF class as it is right now on LIVE (i should had added "with some buffs" from this patch), because "that" GWF is the "balanced class" meant for buffed classes as i see them all right now.
Hop on Preview... I'll meet ya in there if ya like? You're speculation is wrong! GWF are still pretty awesome man, at least right now preview changes are not set yet!
I think you are worrying to much over things you are "Speculating" on instead of actually testing. I am testing stuff on preview and we all stand in a circle talking to each other dueling etc. So we get input from every class on our team and against. Its actually very friendly, no ganking or anything, people actually stop to talk and ask you questions, and say let me hit your shield see how much damage you take, or lower you gurrd I wanna test IBS.
I urge you to copy a toon an come try.
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
I play against a GWF, and with GWF, and have many GWF in my guild whom which I collaborate with on GWF.
I don't need to be a politician to see the damage the do to society,and the collapse of our economy either. One can be a well informed bipartisan also...
EDIT: I may not be helping the thread in a positive manner for GWF, however I can be a counterpoint to people that have not actually played the changes.
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
My main is GF, and I am stoked with the changes. I switch to a GWF during mod 2-3, because... well you know.
Takedown MUST be a prone. Leave flourish and FLS as stuns. Leave the TR/Sprint tradeoff. I am even ok with unstoppble now. (Saying these both as a GF and a GWF). But, takedown must be a prone. The name alone...
Give one power to prone. Its damage has been reduced. Unstoppable lowered some. Sprint I havent gotten to test enough on my GWF. TR not so OP. But you gotta have one prone.
I will conceed GWF is OP in PVP right now. Not compared to equal HR/TR, but to DC, GF, CW for sure. HR getting tweaked a ton, and TR next mod it sounds like. But if they are OP now, don't make them into the gutter/no fun. Not being able to hit anything is not fun.
No one used Roar before it was bugged! The only reason you use it now is to abuse and exploit a bugged encounter... It speaks volumes about ones character.
This statement pretty much sums up what i said before.
1) You know very little of what you speak about
2) Your opinion on the matter is biased and you seem to just be interested in attacking a whole class cause you have some problem with it.
Why i say this: You first statement is false. Let's get facts straight. Roar was used in module 1 before Iron Vanguard as the best way for a swordmaster to deal with a perma TR or a CW. And still used by good swordmasters till now cause it's a ranged stun that allows you to not be kited, in exchange for the little damage it deals. Only with Iron Vanguard introduction to GWFs and threat rush/ FLS, GWFs sentinels stopped using Roar. Roar have been there for a long time. Also: good destroyers used to use it in PvP. Cause the shorter cooldown on it from Destroyer Tree have always been there. So, for a squishy destroyer Roar was, and still is, the best way to CC, avoid being kited and such. Cause, let's get this straight, the WAI Roar does 4 things:
- little damage
- little knockback
- determination gain (not really useful in PvP since you rarely hit multiple enemies)
- Roots the enemy in place
The last effect is the reason GWFs used it in module 1 and use it now. It's bugged, yes, cause it goes through CC immunity and if i got it right, silences players for 2 seconds (?). But if you're standing there and a GWF hits you with roar, then takedown and IBS, he's just using it the way it's meant to be used since it's SUPPOSED to root you in place. Read its description on the wiki page...
So, you don't know much if you say it was never used before. I recall fighting a Destro from a strong guild in module 1, and he was using this same strategy: roar, takedown, IBS, sprint to evade/ buy time, then come back to roar/ takedown/ IBS. With shorter cooldowns, that's the proactive way for a Destroyer to make up for his lack of tankyness.
Second: you opinion is biased. And that's pretty clear in your last statement. You call out an entire class, claiming they all use Roar only cause it's bugged. Dear Sir, have EVER crossed your mind that few players have the time to test powers deeply and take a look if they are bugged or not? And that Roar is now used more perhaps cause Destroyer tree got buffed and many GWFs tried to make Destro viable in PvP, and that with the cooldown reduction they get from the feat, takedown and Roar were the best choices? That perhaps people just picked up the buffed tree and used the 2 best PvP powers in it, bugged or not? Even if Roar was not bugged, it would still be just as useful, rooting enemies from range with reduced cooldown.
If you could stop for a moment to unleash your river of hatred over the class, you could realize that many GWFs only use what is best for them like any other class, bugged or not, just like any other class. Like HRs do with pathfinder paragon and PvP sets, or TRs do with permastealth.
My main is GF, and I am stoked with the changes. I switch to a GWF during mod 2-3, because... well you know.
Takedown MUST be a prone. Leave flourish and FLS as stuns. Leave the TR/Sprint tradeoff. I am even ok with unstoppble now. (Saying these both as a GF and a GWF). But, takedown must be a prone. The name alone...
Give one power to prone. Its damage has been reduced. Unstoppable lowered some. Sprint I havent gotten to test enough on my GWF. TR not so OP. But you gotta have one prone.
I will conceed GWF is OP in PVP right now. Not compared to equal HR/TR, but to DC, GF, CW for sure. HR getting tweaked a ton, and TR next mod it sounds like. But if they are OP now, don't make them into the gutter/no fun. Not being able to hit anything is not fun.
Pretty much, a balanced opinion. Yes, GWFs are currently OP, and as you say, at least when it comes to holding points, not as much as BiS HRs or TRs. Just cause HRs can self heal like a DC and tank like a GWF, and TRs can go on-off node and hide in stealth forever.
Many changes i agree with, but as you say, takedown prone removal is not needed and increasing Flourish damage when it's still useless cause it's so slow people can dodge it with both eyes closed, is another not really useful change.
Would they keep Roar original rooting effect only fixing the bugs, it woud've been fair. With Roar gone, FLS prone gone and Takedown gone, there's a huge lack of an opening move. Which is needed. Cause it can be seen in the video i posted how it ends up CW vs GWF with just flourish as our mighty opening move...
No one used Roar before it was bugged! The only reason you use it now is to abuse and exploit a bugged encounter... It speaks volumes about ones character.
It's knockback has always been situationally useful especially in some pve areas.
i'm not on pts, but i think i agree with some of these posts, just from a theoretical standpoint
in regards to the new sentinel aegis feat
right now, unstoppable by default gives 10-20% (based on patch notes)...with sentinel aegis you can increase this by 5 times
meaning you end up with 50-100% damage reduction...that just doesn't seem right haha...replacing one broken mechanic with another
honestly it was probably better the way it is in live right now (possible 100% damage reduction with unstoppable vs increased AC and defense)
my suggestion:
leave unstoppable to give 15-30% by default
let aegis give you the possible 100% damage resistance, but, reduce dmg output by ~30% for like 8 seconds after activating unstoppable
i understand what devs are trying to do, make you think "ahh let me play tank and spec sent"....instead of the current "ahh let me spec tanky dps with sentinel"...i don't believe the current changes are going to accomplish this, it's just going to make sentinel dps even nastier, since overall damage will remain the same, while tankiness will go up, if not, stay the same
perspective: 14.5k sent/destr gwf, mostly pvp
0
nezraalMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2014
I am new to neverwinter, and I chose GWF because I like the idea of a semi-tank classes with reasonable DPS. Melee class is the only class I enjoy. From the feedback, I see that this class has:
* No escape mechanism which is fine, but in exchange lacks insufficient damage reduction.
* Once reaching an opponent it is unable to land it's attack
* Terrible DPS
* Opinionated Development team which insists that a class is over powered despite feedback and it's reflection in a ladder board.
Depending on the changes I may move on to other games, as the developers are taking drastic measurements to "apply balance" despite disagreements from it's users. I am no where near a built GW as I just started, can someone point me in the right directions? In general do you enjoy the game or do you regret spending time building your character?
I am guessing or hoping that the silence is because of drastic changes to GWF are coming - like what happened to the GF.
Massive buffs to alot of different powers and abilities, making each a big tradeoff with different specs - WONDERFUL! This makes true diversification in builds.
Even with that in mind, I would STRONGLY caution you on a few points:
- Remove CC immunity from Sprint, its rather ridiculous from a "cheese" standpoint. We can keep the DR - although dont be fooled that this really helps alot with tankiness, because once someone DOES control you, your out of sprint - so it really only curbs non-controlling attacks - which seems fitting.
- Give Takedown back its Prone AND damage. This is REALLY needed for a fighter melee class in PVP. I understand this allows to bypass deflect and should be more "rare" but a melee fighter class SHOULD be able to atleast have ONE prone. Maybe the solution here is to remove the "3 second CD if misses" but give it a 25% increased activation - making it harder to dodge.
- Focused Destroyer should be re-worked for more of a PVE focus. This removes some damage benefit from PVP, which is WHY giving takedown its prone back AND damage which THEN allows a deflect ignoring IBS makes sense - because it will ALL be at lower base damage, making it balanced.
I would also REALLY like to see all temporary "mark" abilities given a fixed short duration and not "removed when attacked" by the target... This will help players who choose, to balance their character around "mark" via Threat Rush and IBS.
i dont see any need to nerf new sprint or destroyer capstone since after fls and takedown nerfs we wont be able to so easy prone chain ppl and with newest changes to cw shiled we might to see final end of cw crying how gwf owns them easy in pvp
take down did do to much damage for prone skill same as fls but u cant nerf damage and remove prone they need to lose one of it not all and to high damage on them comes from trample
i'm not on pts, but i think i agree with some of these posts, just from a theoretical standpoint
in regards to the new sentinel aegis feat
right now, unstoppable by default gives 10-20% (based on patch notes)...with sentinel aegis you can increase this by 5 times
meaning you end up with 50-100% damage reduction...that just doesn't seem right haha...replacing one broken mechanic with another
honestly it was probably better the way it is in live right now (possible 100% damage reduction with unstoppable vs increased AC and defense)
my suggestion:
leave unstoppable to give 15-30% by default
let aegis give you the possible 100% damage resistance, but, reduce dmg output by ~30% for like 8 seconds after activating unstoppable
i understand what devs are trying to do, make you think "ahh let me play tank and spec sent"....instead of the current "ahh let me spec tanky dps with sentinel"...i don't believe the current changes are going to accomplish this, it's just going to make sentinel dps even nastier, since overall damage will remain the same, while tankiness will go up, if not, stay the same
perspective: 14.5k sent/destr gwf, mostly pvp
DR hard caps at 80% so you will never hit 100% damage reduction
Comments
Yes, but IV is a tanking paragon its from the Tank Class the Guardian Fighter, I don't know why they gave you guys the tanking paragon but buffed all the damage by 3 times the amount. I think they are reverting it back to a tanking path.
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
There is no tanking in this game though. IV is a pvp path imo. Talking about tanking is why the GF is in bad shape. In a game that has been designed to not require using the trinity, a tank is just a substandard class that can't clear content well.
Well there we agree! It looks like GF will not get much in the DR or DPS department. You guys can still do both though... I may swap to Warlock if the GF still isn't viable in end game pvp / pve
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Have you seen the changes for GF announced today? They will be wanted for end game if it stays like this, for sure.
Yea, but we will be an under powered buff bot! Not much fun.
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
ummm please enlighten me when it ever said this
because as long as i've been playing it has always said this
"Unleash a mighty battle roar in front of you, interrupting and pushing your opponents back, and building Determination for every target hit."
nowhere does it say Root
I will reply to you because your not a troll.
I take great issue with your #3.
Removing Destroyers Purpose from the PvP Destroyer would wreck the Destroyer as much as any of the current Mod 4 changes. I'm not sure why you would even suggest that TBH. Before Destroyers Purpose, Sentinel was literally the only viable spec for PvP, as a Destroyer I certainly can't support that.
If you understand that it's a gear related issue certainly you know that VS people in Profound: IBS+DEST PURP crits for around 7.5k average with Peferct Vorpal. With a way lower average when you include non crits which are about 65% of IBS strikes since only 30-40% of attacks will actually be crits. (yes I have parsed many matches)
The big 18k hits people talk about really only happen on people with little to no tenacity and low defense when the attacker is using P.Vorp. or G.Pla., and are not actually the norm.
I'm not looking to make GWF PvP Sentinel only again i'd rather keep the mod 4 changes than remove Destroyers Purpose.
I honestly don't think you should bring the TR. Daggers and knife logic in to this because it's a fantasy game and in this fantasy game they're supposed to be the hardest hitting class. But if we're bringing logic in then so be it. No halfling GWFs. FLS is impossible because the shield isn't even there.. What kind of warrior gets scared by another dude roaring. How does take down even work on GFs and other GWFs who have heavy armor in fact how does it work on anyone if the actual blade doesn't hurt or take them down they why should the hilt... Why aren't the GWFs fatigue after they turned in to a big red monster and unleashed everything they got?
the point is: gwf has by far and handily, the worst base damage of the game. class needs to "A" - a lot of stacks created in special conditions, "B" the opportunity to "grind the enemy slowly." (what is sad by a 2 hands sword)
yes, the old iv have both, but the "New gwf" nothing. seems to me that the idea of balance is "if the class has an excess of it, you cut, and improves other aspect (dilemmas?). BUT lost utility in Module 2 to preserve damage (destroyer only) now lose control, "tank" and damage (13% in past and now takedown/iv) to gain... nothing.
ah, now i run like the wind ... but the wind dont do dps ...
ps: now i see the new changes in gf/ranger... that gwf thread is a big joke... for what, my good lord, you need a sentinel to "tank" or destroyer for dps?
TR was a game changer and before bleed was changed and module 3 we all used FS instead of roar.
TR does 2-4 k and can be spammed until the poor victim ran out of dodges and then take down landed as it only had 3 sec cold down if missed.
That changed to something even more efficient the famous roar with 6-7 sec cool down instead of FS whish made it even easer to land Take down and IBS.
I stopped playing gwf just because it was to OP plain and simple. Going out of most pvp matches 12+kills and 0-2 kills and that being at enemy base most of the time just got a bit boring much like eating stake every day to much of the good tend to take the thrill out of it.
There are always talk about players that can handle gwfs just dont know how to play and that is some serious bull****.
We will have to watch and see what these changes will bring in terms of balance but i have no hopes what so ever that gwfs will be easier to handle in pvp after stam change and run immunity/30%dr change.
Gwfs is a crafty bunch and from those changes I seen so far adapting overcome and conquer is exactly what the gwfs will do. (in fact am pretty sure that as movability is a key factor and so is cc immunity in pvp gwfs will once they changed around some feats/powers and gear come out even stronger then before even if they require some more skill then facrolling keyboard in future).
Dam clonkyo1 you never let me down when i need a laugh :rolleyes:.
I just went pugging with my gwf just for the fun of it as i dont play him any more and let me see mm 21-0, 18-1, 27-0, 9-5(hard one that we lost) was my score so much for *hard time dealing with whatever just lol.
That the changed hr to the worse, nerfed cws dam given you the ability to shift trough immunity to ccs between sprint and unstop + 40% less stam drain when sprinting, completely missed your radar naturally as usal..
Why not suggest that they reverse the all the nerfs and keep 40% less stam when sprinting and the 30%DR/immunity while doing so also, am sure you going to need it badly now that they buffed all the other classes so hard.
Dont forget to visit the DCs forum and suggest they lessen their dam so they hurt you to much :eek:.....
I'm mostly fine with 15/30, i'm also ok with a minor reduction in damage.
The only thing I really am suggesting for is a lessening of the FLS damage reduction, perhaps 10-15% vs 30%, FLS is also PVE tool and regularly equals around 15% of my damage in PvE second only to Wicked Strike. And I feel Takedown needs to prone because Destroyer GWF's really need at least one reliable lead into IBS. The damage on Takedown can be reduced as long as the net effect is that it's still has a function.
And I have done as much testing as I can on the test server, though what I can really test is limited since the PVP que never runs.
It is not a lie. That is the truth. I can do that, consistantly on live right now, and have been. As I said plenty of times concerning this. the only problem I ever had was the garranteed cc chain rotation with no way out of it because prones do not respect tenacity. Once you're hit with one, you're at the mercy at every single one of those skills back to back. But you can dodge consistantly from getting hit from them. Only trouble is stamina isnt always in your favor in those encounters.
I have both a GF and a GWF. Rip's analysis is (mostly) spot-on. My impression of most GWFs is that since they do not have anything to compare it to they do not see how their class is OP. That unstoppable is likely better than villians menace and fighter's recovery combined and procs twice as often. That their dailies 'are'nt that good' even though avalanch has more potential DPS than any daily in the game. And I am sure most encouters have dissapointing outcomes compared to IBS. Because they do. Basically the GWF for the last 2 mods has been easy mode. And again I have one and I use him. And if you don't also have a GF to compare it to you are likely blind to this.
Many GWFs already proposed several nerfs and changes to the class. Plus, all that's being said is that some stuff must be changed such as faster animation on flourish and other things i already explained in detail to you above. I really explained how things work and why some changes to flourish and FLS are needed. Plus, i also explained how Roar original effect (rooting) being removed ON TOP of the fixes to the bugs, was not really needed.
Yet you wrote a false statement, saying that "we want our class reverted to faceroll", even though the proposed changes do not suggest it.
Right now HRs and even perma TRs are ALREADY more survivable and able to troll multiple enemies compared to GWFs. On live. You'd have more experience, you'd have noticed this. Permas can go on-off point and keep trolling the enemy base against multiple enemies way longer than any tank GWF does. GWFs are not used as "point holders" anymore. The job is done by TRs, HRs and tank DCs.
Also, i already explained why Unstoppable DR is not really an issue if you know how to play. Simple reason is, GWFs already can't tank multiple enemies due to healing depression, and in 1v1 the enemy is not supposed to be hitting you during unstoppable. If people knew how to play (not use encounters on an Unstoppable GWF), they wouldn't have a problem with unstoppable and the slower determination gain would have been enough. Even in Mod 4, if you're going to use your encounters on an Unstoppable GWF even with just 15% more DR, you'd be a ****, wasting your DPS.
There are many things that are out of reality in your "feedback", and people tried to tell you this multiple times.
As for the changes WE proposed on flourish and the other stuff, it's a simple matter: if you play a GWF, you know few things.
1) you can't compare it to a HR or TR. These classes have tools to avoid damage entirely (TR has ITC, stealth and dodge roll immunities, HR is RANGED CLASS with 5 immunity dodges), while GWFs are a melee class with no immunity to damage. Which means, they are being hit all the time. Of course even Destroyers are more tanky than a HR or TR. Else, they would not even reach the enemy. But if you want to give them stealth or real ranged powers, you're free to drop their survivability to such levels.
2) To deal damage, you should know, you've to actually catch the enemy. And fast, since a GWF can't sit there and block like a GF. Now, with all ranged CC gone and FLS stun not being enough to link a takedown, how would you catch a perma TR, a HR or a CW. Let me hear.
Takedown is dodged with both eyes closed by any good CW/ TR/ HR and even GWF if you use it as your opening move. Any TR/ HR and CW also can dodge flourish, timing their dodge immunity move with its slow animation. IBS is not even to mention. It can land only if it follows a prone move. But with all prones gone, it can land only if following a takedown.
Now please, let us hear how your imaginary GWF would catch a CW/ HR/ or, even more difficult, permastealth TR in end game PvP, in module 4.
every GWF suggested that roar had bug , but bug was it passing through CC immunity , but now its nerfed to sh/t power which no1 will use.
florish can easily be dodged with eyes closed , takedown is easily dodge with current shifts , and after mod 4 all shift powers will be more responsive , now takedown became more useless with no real dmg , they cld have removed the feat which increased takedown dmg by 25% , but no DEV decreased whole base dmg , so sent dmg is nothing , all class will have sharp weapons and GWF will have a blunt weapon now.
we r not even getting faster florish animation , so SM will have slowdown(takedown doesnt do as the name intended) and slowrish(not florish cause its toooo damnslow) .
IV path is useless , the only reason player used IV path was due too threatning rush , cause no actual stamina consumption , now they made stamin last 40% more still other class crying , but they dont know stamina consumed by GWF to chase all ranged class is way too much , most of the time b4 IV path GWF wld use all stamina then just try to catch them by walking till there stamina is slightly regenerated.
any1 posing here that GWF nerfs are good , plz post a video of GWF killing equally geared player of any class except GWF ofc, any other class with PVP guild can decimate all GWF players even which are 2k + GS above them , and thats the truth. tested and seen.
now since u r presenting ur argument that GWF is still OP or balanced , so plz show us in ur video . dont comment on it when u have not seen any GWF player playing in preview in PVP. in PVP GWF is nothing now , and even in live plz check leaderboards and u will see except 3 or 4 GWf all top players are HR or TR . sure GWF has some bugs but he is not point holder now but its been done by HR and TR.
plz think about what u type b4 posting ur comment and try to understand GWF players and there build and where they cming from. dont post baseless things subjected to ur imaginations.
Furthermore I am playing on Preview and I do play with and against GWF, they take more damage but seem to be fine!
As far as if GWF will still be OP, I cannot say. Right now they seem toned down some but still very capable at pretty much everything they are doing on live albeit tanking 3 players solo.
You have a Sprint and an Unstoppable and now 3 Threatening Rushes. It was also overly abused an at will to close distance that hit for 5k, now you will need to use things wiser!
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
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~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Not to say it isn't being abused, only that your explanation is a little backwards.
(Over time, it's gone in and out of PvE builds mostly for the sake of determination gain. During the Deep Gash era, it wasn't being used because it wouldn't help spread bleed damage.)
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Ok then, thanks for better clarity..
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Hop on Preview... I'll meet ya in there if ya like? You're speculation is wrong! GWF are still pretty awesome man, at least right now preview changes are not set yet!
I think you are worrying to much over things you are "Speculating" on instead of actually testing. I am testing stuff on preview and we all stand in a circle talking to each other dueling etc. So we get input from every class on our team and against. Its actually very friendly, no ganking or anything, people actually stop to talk and ask you questions, and say let me hit your shield see how much damage you take, or lower you gurrd I wanna test IBS.
I urge you to copy a toon an come try.
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
I don't need to be a politician to see the damage the do to society,and the collapse of our economy either. One can be a well informed bipartisan also...
EDIT: I may not be helping the thread in a positive manner for GWF, however I can be a counterpoint to people that have not actually played the changes.
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Takedown MUST be a prone. Leave flourish and FLS as stuns. Leave the TR/Sprint tradeoff. I am even ok with unstoppble now. (Saying these both as a GF and a GWF). But, takedown must be a prone. The name alone...
Give one power to prone. Its damage has been reduced. Unstoppable lowered some. Sprint I havent gotten to test enough on my GWF. TR not so OP. But you gotta have one prone.
I will conceed GWF is OP in PVP right now. Not compared to equal HR/TR, but to DC, GF, CW for sure. HR getting tweaked a ton, and TR next mod it sounds like. But if they are OP now, don't make them into the gutter/no fun. Not being able to hit anything is not fun.
This statement pretty much sums up what i said before.
1) You know very little of what you speak about
2) Your opinion on the matter is biased and you seem to just be interested in attacking a whole class cause you have some problem with it.
Why i say this: You first statement is false. Let's get facts straight. Roar was used in module 1 before Iron Vanguard as the best way for a swordmaster to deal with a perma TR or a CW. And still used by good swordmasters till now cause it's a ranged stun that allows you to not be kited, in exchange for the little damage it deals. Only with Iron Vanguard introduction to GWFs and threat rush/ FLS, GWFs sentinels stopped using Roar. Roar have been there for a long time. Also: good destroyers used to use it in PvP. Cause the shorter cooldown on it from Destroyer Tree have always been there. So, for a squishy destroyer Roar was, and still is, the best way to CC, avoid being kited and such. Cause, let's get this straight, the WAI Roar does 4 things:
- little damage
- little knockback
- determination gain (not really useful in PvP since you rarely hit multiple enemies)
- Roots the enemy in place
The last effect is the reason GWFs used it in module 1 and use it now. It's bugged, yes, cause it goes through CC immunity and if i got it right, silences players for 2 seconds (?). But if you're standing there and a GWF hits you with roar, then takedown and IBS, he's just using it the way it's meant to be used since it's SUPPOSED to root you in place. Read its description on the wiki page...
So, you don't know much if you say it was never used before. I recall fighting a Destro from a strong guild in module 1, and he was using this same strategy: roar, takedown, IBS, sprint to evade/ buy time, then come back to roar/ takedown/ IBS. With shorter cooldowns, that's the proactive way for a Destroyer to make up for his lack of tankyness.
Second: you opinion is biased. And that's pretty clear in your last statement. You call out an entire class, claiming they all use Roar only cause it's bugged. Dear Sir, have EVER crossed your mind that few players have the time to test powers deeply and take a look if they are bugged or not? And that Roar is now used more perhaps cause Destroyer tree got buffed and many GWFs tried to make Destro viable in PvP, and that with the cooldown reduction they get from the feat, takedown and Roar were the best choices? That perhaps people just picked up the buffed tree and used the 2 best PvP powers in it, bugged or not? Even if Roar was not bugged, it would still be just as useful, rooting enemies from range with reduced cooldown.
If you could stop for a moment to unleash your river of hatred over the class, you could realize that many GWFs only use what is best for them like any other class, bugged or not, just like any other class. Like HRs do with pathfinder paragon and PvP sets, or TRs do with permastealth.
Pretty much, a balanced opinion. Yes, GWFs are currently OP, and as you say, at least when it comes to holding points, not as much as BiS HRs or TRs. Just cause HRs can self heal like a DC and tank like a GWF, and TRs can go on-off node and hide in stealth forever.
Many changes i agree with, but as you say, takedown prone removal is not needed and increasing Flourish damage when it's still useless cause it's so slow people can dodge it with both eyes closed, is another not really useful change.
Would they keep Roar original rooting effect only fixing the bugs, it woud've been fair. With Roar gone, FLS prone gone and Takedown gone, there's a huge lack of an opening move. Which is needed. Cause it can be seen in the video i posted how it ends up CW vs GWF with just flourish as our mighty opening move...
It's knockback has always been situationally useful especially in some pve areas.
in regards to the new sentinel aegis feat
right now, unstoppable by default gives 10-20% (based on patch notes)...with sentinel aegis you can increase this by 5 times
meaning you end up with 50-100% damage reduction...that just doesn't seem right haha...replacing one broken mechanic with another
honestly it was probably better the way it is in live right now (possible 100% damage reduction with unstoppable vs increased AC and defense)
my suggestion:
leave unstoppable to give 15-30% by default
let aegis give you the possible 100% damage resistance, but, reduce dmg output by ~30% for like 8 seconds after activating unstoppable
i understand what devs are trying to do, make you think "ahh let me play tank and spec sent"....instead of the current "ahh let me spec tanky dps with sentinel"...i don't believe the current changes are going to accomplish this, it's just going to make sentinel dps even nastier, since overall damage will remain the same, while tankiness will go up, if not, stay the same
perspective: 14.5k sent/destr gwf, mostly pvp
* No escape mechanism which is fine, but in exchange lacks insufficient damage reduction.
* Once reaching an opponent it is unable to land it's attack
* Terrible DPS
* Opinionated Development team which insists that a class is over powered despite feedback and it's reflection in a ladder board.
Depending on the changes I may move on to other games, as the developers are taking drastic measurements to "apply balance" despite disagreements from it's users. I am no where near a built GW as I just started, can someone point me in the right directions? In general do you enjoy the game or do you regret spending time building your character?
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i dont see any need to nerf new sprint or destroyer capstone since after fls and takedown nerfs we wont be able to so easy prone chain ppl and with newest changes to cw shiled we might to see final end of cw crying how gwf owns them easy in pvp
take down did do to much damage for prone skill same as fls but u cant nerf damage and remove prone they need to lose one of it not all and to high damage on them comes from trample
non so più quel che dico e quel che faccio!
Eppure... è d'uopo... sforzati!
Bah, seti tu forse un uom?
day by day, wait for a real change. or maybe a releveant response, and not "iam "read" this thread, but i will ignore".
Tu sei Pagliaccio!
DR hard caps at 80% so you will never hit 100% damage reduction