Sentinel's Aegis: This feat now causes Unstoppable to grant 5 times more damage resistance in addition to its other effects. (people will run sentinel because its the only effective build for pvp) on top of CC immunity AND 30% dr while sprinting? thats ridiculous, its already hard enough to clear a gwf on a node, and now you want to make them go back to the 45% base DR 40% deflect build and giving them an additional 50% DR through unstoppable and sprint.
They just worded it to be 5x since that was technically the difference from the current DR bonus to the initial in preview (it makes it sound better on text). At least, I truly hope that they didn't make it literally 5x the DR bonus and not forget to adjust the formula with the new amount.
Battle Trample is a paragon path feat, so changing it would not allow it for all sentinels to have it. But i agree with you. So many effects on ONE passive is silly.
Well I'm not seeing any tanks missing out on FS so PVP and PVE will see a heavy dose of IV Sentinels anyway. I the most logical option because it already has the threat component. It also would benefit GFs equally and secure their reign on the threat throne.
The Aggro generation for Sentinels now fits their purpose, so, fine changes.
Unstopp must me, at least, granting 15-30% DR OR make stamina bar longer to do longer sprints to "max" the "sprint buff" you gave GWFs.
Takedown and Roar MUST PRONE/root, otherwise, Destroyer's GWFs are render useless in PVP due "stun" is adjusted by Tenacity, which means, they will deal 0 damage on any class but other GWF or DC.
By the way, i want to ask you a thing regardind servers themselves: You know test server has really low rates at all compared with Live server, do you? I know this fact due after i have found this and this, i've run Sharandar and Dread Ring with all my chars. After a few test, i "felt" nothing changed with my "damage dealers" (obvious when they are 12k+ GS), i tried both zones with DC alone and, my surprise was, that i could finish DF and WF when, in live server, i cant do it at first time due adds' damage. So, my question, as you probably could foresee reading about this is, Are you TESTING all your buffs/nerfs on TEST server??? If so, that will mean you will reduce the difficult on the whole server to adjust these nerfs on all classes?
As a personal opinion, i would say i prefer you left the server as it is right now in live and BUFF other classes rather than CWs, HRs, TRs and/or GWFs (which need fixed, obviously) to make the other classes funny to play again and do not remove a single not bugged mechanic on other classes.
I agree 100% just got out of a PVP match with a tank hr. He deflected almost all my damage and the only way I got him down HP wise is using my stuns with prone! Yet, this one hr managed to regen all his HP and deflect what damage I tried to do on him with his daily? More like pushing the scales in the perm stealth TR and tank HR to me... Again... Please reconsider this change or at least nerf the other classes deflection and regen too.
The Aggro generation for Sentinels now fits their purpose, so, fine changes.
Unstopp must me, at least, granting 15-30% DR OR make stamina bar longer to do longer sprints to "max" the "sprint buff" you gave GWFs.
Takedown and Roar MUST PRONE/root, otherwise, Destroyer's GWFs are render useless in PVP due "stun" is adjusted by Tenacity, which means, they will deal 0 damage on any class but other GWF or DC.
By the way, i want to ask you a thing regardind servers themselves: You know test server has really low rates at all compared with Live server, do you? I know this fact due after i have found this and this, i've run Sharandar and Dread Ring with all my chars. After a few test, i "felt" nothing changed with my "damage dealers" (obvious when they are 12k+ GS), i tried both zones with DC alone and, my surprise was, that i could finish DF and WF when, in live server, i cant do it at first time due adds' damage. So, my question, as you probably could foresee reading about this is, Are you TESTING all your buffs/nerfs on TEST server??? If so, that will mean you will reduce the difficult on the whole server to adjust these nerfs on all classes?
As a personal opinion, i would say i prefer you left the server as it is right now in live and BUFF other classes rather than CWs, HRs, TRs and/or GWFs (which need fixed, obviously) to make the other classes funny to play again and do not remove a single not bugged mechanic on other classes.
Those videos are using a flawed example. Totem of Auril events have been nerfed in difficulty substantially in Mod4 they cannot be used to compare class viability changes.
Really the big issues in PVP were:
1) Roar bug -> Stunning and NOW (mod 3) with alot shorter CD.
2) Unstoppable Recovery -> Healed double what its supposed to.
3) Destroyers Purpose Stacks -> Adding (IMO) WAY too much damage in pvp - should be a PVE feat only. Dropping this to say 5% to proc off any attack removes it from pvp - to compensate IMO increase duration of each stack would be nice for PVE purposes.
If you JUST adjusted those three things, I think the class would be pretty fair IMO.
Damage would be cut in PVP by about 40% from removing Destroyers Purpose.
Tankiness would be reduced from Unstoppable Recovery fix AND Roar fix (stunning for 2 seconds every 8 seconds adds ALOT of tankiness, trust me).
This is ALL the changes needed. GWFs on LIVE are SO close to being a good "balance" its just minor changes that ARE needed, but dont bring the nerf hammer to the class, its really going to frustrate alot of people.
To add to that. Prones should respect cc resist and tenacity. So its not a garranteed prone chain once you go through it. The opponent will get a chance to be able to dodge out of them (if they're a dodging class) or interrupt it.
As i said: i run other zones with my other lvl60/12k+GS chars... if you want to try them and check them by yourself and look if fits what i found and showed on those videos, be my guest.
I was soley referring to those events. By no means am i attempting to discredit all of what you suggest other than that specific event wont give a clear comparison. If it holds true elsewhere, great.
To add to that. Prones should respect cc resist and tenacity. So its not a garranteed prone chain once you go through it. The opponent will get a chance to be able to dodge out of them (if they're a dodging class) or interrupt it.
Im 99% sure they already ARE affected by CC resist and tenacity.
Also you already have a chance to dodge out of prones, you just need to press shift when they press their encounter... Or you know... you can even wait about a second after the prone hits and still dodge - because it has an insanely HUGE window on when you can activate dodge and dodge an attack.
I assume you have thought of this, but it wasn't mentioned so I'm mentioning it --
Is the Sentinel capstone going to be adjusted with this to 2.5X unstoppable, or is it staying at 5x for a total 50~100% reduction? I'd assume it is being adjusted to 2.5X.
- B
Yes, but that means a GWF would be able to hit max damage mitigation with just half a meter full of determination.
whats the use for 80% cap lol now, G PF reduces it by 45%, then ur armor penetation gives near about 20%+, also now tenacity have 20% armor penetration featurea dded , which gives additional 20% , heck now its 85% armor penetration without counting debuff provided by other classes , welcome to the world of GWF nerf.
If you get 50-100% DR through DR, you still need armor penetration and debuffs to go through it in order to get their DR below 80%. 80% is simply where the final number cannot be higher than, but the number for calculation purposes can be way, way higher so that you never drop below 80% on attacks.
If you get 50-100% DR through DR, you still need armor penetration and debuffs to go through it in order to get their DR below 80%. 80% is simply where the final number cannot be higher than, but the number for calculation purposes can be way, way higher so that you never drop below 80% on attacks.
Is that a tested fact, or a proposed assumption? Your explanation only holds value if the variable used in calculations is not also capped at 80%.
Everyone's talking about endgame PvP viability, but has anyone tried to level a GWF from scratch with these changes? All brand spanking new GWFs will have HAMSTER damage due to nerfed early level encounter damage, and worse survivability than a TR due to lack of an actual shift/dodge or mitigation in melee. I don't mind if the class needs to be balanced in endgame PvP, but please don't screw over everyone who is still just playing through the game to do it.
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mircalla83Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 36
edited July 2014
I have a suspicion that there would be less of an issue with needing damage decreases on the GWF if Power wouldn't be a fixed 166=1% Scale, but subject to Diminishing Returns as well. If,from 6k Power onward (for example) 1% Damage increase would require 300 Power, it would reign in the GWF class.
Linear up to 3k, requiring 200 for 1% around 4k, 250 at 5k, 300 at 6k. This also MIGHT (not will, might) reign in Lifestealing and allow some classes to pick stuff like Crit, Recovery, ArP, instead of 'More Power'.
I have a suspicion that there would be less of an issue with needing damage decreases on the GWF if Power wouldn't be a fixed 166=1% Scale, but subject to Diminishing Returns as well. If,from 6k Power onward (for example) 1% Damage increase would require 300 Power, it would reign in the GWF class.
Linear up to 3k, requiring 200 for 1% around 4k, 250 at 5k, 300 at 6k. This also MIGHT (not will, might) reign in Lifestealing and allow some classes to pick stuff like Crit, Recovery, ArP, instead of 'More Power'.
First, it would affect all classes the same. Second, if all stats would give diminishing returns there'd be no point in raising them anymore. And there'd be eventually no reason to play anymore. Where's the point if you cannot noticably improve your toons anymore?
Also, even though the damage bonus increases, the relative increase actually diminishes.
E.g. having 6000 power gives a total of +36% more damage. Increasing by another 1000 power gives a total of +42% more damage. This is just an increase of 4.4% (6%/136%) and not 6%. Increasing 7000 power by yet another 1000 will increase the damage by 4.2%. And so on...
The more power you have the less increase in overall damage you will get from the same amount of power. Or to put the other way: the more power you have the more power you need to add to increase the damage by the same relative amount.
Also, even though the damage bonus increases, the relative increase actually diminishes.
E.g. having 6000 power gives a total of +36% more damage. Increasing by another 1000 power gives a total of +42% more damage. This is just an increase of 4.4% (6%/136%) and not 6%. Increasing 7000 power by yet another 1000 will increase the damage by 4.2%. And so on...
The more power you have the less increase in overall damage you will get from the same amount of power. Or to put the other way: the more power you have the more power you need to add to increase the damage by the same relative amount.
The problem is as I see it, is our base damage on dailies and encounters are so **** low that 40% really equates to little gain!
I mean our Encounters in IV / SM do less then half what the same encounters do for GWF!
We need an across the board Damage increase this would help significantly and assist with life steal also.
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
The Aggro generation for Sentinels now fits their purpose, so, fine changes.
Unstopp must me, at least, granting 15-30% DR OR make stamina bar longer to do longer sprints to "max" the "sprint buff" you gave GWFs.
Takedown and Roar MUST PRONE/root, otherwise, Destroyer's GWFs are render useless in PVP due "stun" is adjusted by Tenacity, which means, they will deal 0 damage on any class but other GWF or DC.
By the way, i want to ask you a thing regardind servers themselves: You know test server has really low rates at all compared with Live server, do you? I know this fact due after i have found this and this, i've run Sharandar and Dread Ring with all my chars. After a few test, i "felt" nothing changed with my "damage dealers" (obvious when they are 12k+ GS), i tried both zones with DC alone and, my surprise was, that i could finish DF and WF when, in live server, i cant do it at first time due adds' damage. So, my question, as you probably could foresee reading about this is, Are you TESTING all your buffs/nerfs on TEST server??? If so, that will mean you will reduce the difficult on the whole server to adjust these nerfs on all classes?
As a personal opinion, i would say i prefer you left the server as it is right now in live and BUFF other classes rather than CWs, HRs, TRs and/or GWFs (which need fixed, obviously) to make the other classes funny to play again and do not remove a single not bugged mechanic on other classes.
I dont know what is it with these Pass Totems on PREVIEW. One day they feel like a walk in the park, another they feel harder than on LIVE, quite strange. Also about your setup, personally I find Roar a better option for that HE than the Shout. Have Avalanche slotted as a 2nd AoE and a Prone to use strategically when about to be overtaken. Key to having it easy with a Totem is staying as mobile as possible, you gotta move in and out of melee and have at least one AoE CC encounter slotted ( FLS for IV or Roar for SM ).
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
On Live, that char doesnt own AoS, thats why i used Slam on both test. I make HE on test (as i call the preview server) all days to make sure im doing it "correctly", not "by luck" (crits vars, life stolen from Recovery strike amounts, etc) and, so far, i do low HE (lows HE: Marauding, Merchant and Totem) all times i tryed them with my GWFs . Also, i did not use roar due, in test, it doesnt "root" anymore, so, that means you cant use it on "live" due that fact. If i use Roar on LIVE, i can make it with difficult but, again, that wasn't to "show you i can make that HE" but to show you all "the HEs are easier on test than live server, so, most test are useless due this fact".
Indeed they are easier. The devs know just how bad they are nerfing classes so they reduced the difficulty of their content but that is PVE only. PVP is where the real gripe is gonna be
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
So all other classes are not meant to give feedback when it doesn't suit you? If that was the case which it feels like to me from your point of view you keep telling other classes how to do our jobs. We are giving our feedback, we can and will do just that or I am just supposed to watch as I see something in my opinion that seems a bit much and just deal with it?
and all those gf crying here , in new mod when u block u have 80% dmg reduction , ur block will use stamina base meaning it will time base event just like gwf also ur health will reach 55k easily and u cry that gwf is tanky. when u block u wil have CC immunity.
u dont even read ur feedback forums and cry here. wow if u exactly look at it u r getting buffed so much and u still want nerf of gwf and cw.
and all those gf crying here , in new mod when u block u have 80% dmg reduction , ur block will use stamina base meaning it will time base event just like gwf also ur health will reach 55k easily and u cry that gwf is tanky. when u block u wil have CC immunity.
u dont even read ur feedback forums and cry here. wow if u exactly look at it u r getting buffed so much and u still want nerf of gwf and cw.
Yes and that has its own drawbacks we cannot use encounters/dailies while blocking and all you need to do is get behind us.
edit: block only has cc immunity in the direction the shield is pointed with a 180 degree arc in front.
Comments
Well I'm not seeing any tanks missing out on FS so PVP and PVE will see a heavy dose of IV Sentinels anyway. I the most logical option because it already has the threat component. It also would benefit GFs equally and secure their reign on the threat throne.
I agree 100% just got out of a PVP match with a tank hr. He deflected almost all my damage and the only way I got him down HP wise is using my stuns with prone! Yet, this one hr managed to regen all his HP and deflect what damage I tried to do on him with his daily? More like pushing the scales in the perm stealth TR and tank HR to me... Again... Please reconsider this change or at least nerf the other classes deflection and regen too.
Those videos are using a flawed example. Totem of Auril events have been nerfed in difficulty substantially in Mod4 they cannot be used to compare class viability changes.
To add to that. Prones should respect cc resist and tenacity. So its not a garranteed prone chain once you go through it. The opponent will get a chance to be able to dodge out of them (if they're a dodging class) or interrupt it.
I was soley referring to those events. By no means am i attempting to discredit all of what you suggest other than that specific event wont give a clear comparison. If it holds true elsewhere, great.
Im 99% sure they already ARE affected by CC resist and tenacity.
Also you already have a chance to dodge out of prones, you just need to press shift when they press their encounter... Or you know... you can even wait about a second after the prone hits and still dodge - because it has an insanely HUGE window on when you can activate dodge and dodge an attack.
They are not affected by either. Never have been.
Yes, but that means a GWF would be able to hit max damage mitigation with just half a meter full of determination.
If you get 50-100% DR through DR, you still need armor penetration and debuffs to go through it in order to get their DR below 80%. 80% is simply where the final number cannot be higher than, but the number for calculation purposes can be way, way higher so that you never drop below 80% on attacks.
Is that a tested fact, or a proposed assumption? Your explanation only holds value if the variable used in calculations is not also capped at 80%.
This behavior was stated by one of the devs. He also gave a formula on how it is calculated. Unfortunately I'm not able to find that post anymore.
Finally found the post I was referring to: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?582751-Cryptic-OFFICIAL-Tenacity-Feedback-Thread/page28&p=7131301&viewfull=1#post7131301
Linear up to 3k, requiring 200 for 1% around 4k, 250 at 5k, 300 at 6k. This also MIGHT (not will, might) reign in Lifestealing and allow some classes to pick stuff like Crit, Recovery, ArP, instead of 'More Power'.
First, it would affect all classes the same. Second, if all stats would give diminishing returns there'd be no point in raising them anymore. And there'd be eventually no reason to play anymore. Where's the point if you cannot noticably improve your toons anymore?
Also, even though the damage bonus increases, the relative increase actually diminishes.
E.g. having 6000 power gives a total of +36% more damage. Increasing by another 1000 power gives a total of +42% more damage. This is just an increase of 4.4% (6%/136%) and not 6%. Increasing 7000 power by yet another 1000 will increase the damage by 4.2%. And so on...
The more power you have the less increase in overall damage you will get from the same amount of power. Or to put the other way: the more power you have the more power you need to add to increase the damage by the same relative amount.
The problem is as I see it, is our base damage on dailies and encounters are so **** low that 40% really equates to little gain!
I mean our Encounters in IV / SM do less then half what the same encounters do for GWF!
We need an across the board Damage increase this would help significantly and assist with life steal also.
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
I dont know what is it with these Pass Totems on PREVIEW. One day they feel like a walk in the park, another they feel harder than on LIVE, quite strange. Also about your setup, personally I find Roar a better option for that HE than the Shout. Have Avalanche slotted as a 2nd AoE and a Prone to use strategically when about to be overtaken. Key to having it easy with a Totem is staying as mobile as possible, you gotta move in and out of melee and have at least one AoE CC encounter slotted ( FLS for IV or Roar for SM ).
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Indeed they are easier. The devs know just how bad they are nerfing classes so they reduced the difficulty of their content but that is PVE only. PVP is where the real gripe is gonna be
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
u dont even read ur feedback forums and cry here. wow if u exactly look at it u r getting buffed so much and u still want nerf of gwf and cw.
Yes and that has its own drawbacks we cannot use encounters/dailies while blocking and all you need to do is get behind us.
edit: block only has cc immunity in the direction the shield is pointed with a 180 degree arc in front.