"Defenders have the highest defenses in the game and good close-up offense. They are the party’s front-line combatants; wherever they’re standing, that’s where the action is. Defenders have abilities and powers that make it difficult for enemies to move past them or to ignore them in battle.
A character with the defender role primarily focuses enemy fire by making it difficult for enemies to move past, and punishing enemies who attack other party members. The fighter is the classic defender class."
Thats the reprocassion if you make GWFs to dps && tank like here. Then you can throw GFs out of the window because noone will bring them to farm.
Hey man. GWF is not 4ed´s fighter. It´s clearly 4ed´s barbarian, who´s a striker and not a defender....
Look at the mechanichs: Unstoppable clearly simulates Rage, Sprint simulates the extra speed Barbarians had in some editions as well as the "Charge" mechanics. I really don´t know why they called this class GWF, they should have called it Barbarian from the beginning.
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
In D&D GWF is a "Defender" class with decent close quarters damage. Main purpose is to bring cover for squishy classes while they bomb mobs away!
Its exactly how I play with my GWF. To support CW/DCs and tank bosses/mobs.
Wow. I'm sorry but in every games, when you play a class with a greatsword, it's someone with the highest damages (physical, maybe with wizards) in AoE, with quite good tanking because of his massive HP but with few mobility.
Tanking is ok in preview, but the damages are no here. And I clearly prefer having the Sprint in live, Unstoppable in Preview, with few controls but with high damages when you catch someone (which would be hard).
Wow. I'm sorry but in every games, when you play a class with a greatsword, it's someone with the highest damages (physical, maybe with wizards) in AoE, with quite good tanking because of his massive HP but with few mobility.
That's a point. A heavily armored and greatsword-holding warrior's movement should be clunky.
Dude, you haven't even played on preview to make a determination on its changes. GWF were and currently are Overpowered! no matter what you want to excuse as other players poor play, the fact remains the entire server including GWF players know the GWF is OP!
So stop this constant deflection of topics and comments into individual skill, as the GWF did NOT require skill to be successful in comparison to the other classes.
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Hey man. GWF is not 4ed´s fighter. It´s clearly 4ed´s barbarian, who´s a striker and not a defender....
Look at the mechanichs: Unstoppable clearly simulates Rage, Sprint simulates the extra speed Barbarians had in some editions as well as the "Charge" mechanics. I really don´t know why they called this class GWF, they should have called it Barbarian from the beginning.
Then interestingly they forget out the Barbarian fatigue after rage...
That's a point. A heavily armored and greatsword-holding warrior's movement should be clunky.
Then i should tank the hell out of any class.
Right now devs are trying to make a fast gap-closing striker with less survivability, but the overnerf plus other classes buffs and bugs may have a bigger impact than They expect.
Right now devs are trying to make a fast gap-closing striker with less survivability, but the overnerf plus other classes buffs and bugs may have a bigger impact than They expect.
You can! You just need to spec tank? See what I did there...
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
So, piercing all DR, Deflection and bypass through the shield of GF is "balanced"... ok, seems legit.
Question: do you think that MacJae should delete his CW due he lost vs all other classes on Mod 3 as himself said in his posts?
No that is not balanced, the CW assailing force shouldn't mitigate all defense and cc immunity. However a 26k hp GWF with rank 7s, Destroyers Grim set and 50% blue gear shouldn't be making a judgement on how OP other classes are whilst they are in full Black Ice Corrupted sets.
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Look, I know that RP means pretty much nothing to most of you PVPers, but it does mean something to a great many of us. And let me remind you, CWs are *wizards*. We deal in magic. So yes, we should have some ability that cuts through your defenses. It should be a powerful spell that is difficult to do, but it should be something. Just like GWFs have really big swords, and TRs have really sharp knives, and HRs have really pointy arrows, that are able to easily pierce through CW's meager cloth robes. We don't have sharp knives, we have magic spells. That's our way of cutting through your defenses.
Most the things that could cut thru defenses magically (ie no ranged touch attack to land) require either a reflex or fortitude save. That means there is always a type of damage reduction possible. This doesn't even get into spell resistance. So yeah while I like that CW's got better in pvp this mod, They shouldn't have done it with damage that cuts thru all resistance. It's bad mmo design and it's not true to dnd.
Most the things that could cut thru defenses magically (ie no ranged touch attack to land) require either a reflex or fortitude save.
*Most* things. Some things don't. As I said it shouldn't be commonplace or easy to do. Assailant is a capstone feat after all. And it does about 10% of total DPS. Not a huge number. Maybe that number could be even lower, that's fine. But there is nothing wrong in principle of having some magical ability that cuts through defenses. By saying that there shouldn't be anything that cuts through defenses, as what the PVPers are complaining about, that just relegates CWs to the same level as ordinary fighters. Well then, if CWs are gonna be treated like ordinary fighters, then give us real armor and knives and swords. But as long as CWs only get cloth robes and orbs, then we gotta have something to fight with.
*Most* things. Some things don't. As I said it shouldn't be commonplace or easy to do. Assailant is a capstone feat after all. And it does about 10% of total DPS. Not a huge number. Maybe that number could be even lower, that's fine. But there is nothing wrong in principle of having some magical ability that cuts through defenses. By saying that there shouldn't be anything that cuts through defenses, as what the PVPers are complaining about, that just relegates CWs to the same level as ordinary fighters. Well then, if CWs are gonna be treated like ordinary fighters, then give us real armor and knives and swords. But as long as CWs only get cloth robes and orbs, then we gotta have something to fight with.
Please list a spell that has no save, no ranged or physical touch attack, and doesn't respect spell penetration.
I think you guys are overcomplicating things, not everything in Neverwinter is based on DnD, some things would work in a MMO and some others simply wouldn't.
Please list a spell that has no save, no ranged or physical touch attack, and doesn't respect spell penetration.
I don't know. I honestly don't know all THAT much about D&D. I'm just saying that the idea of a wizard having a magical ability that can penetrate defenses is not beyond the pale.
I don't know. I honestly don't know all THAT much about D&D. I'm just saying that the idea of a wizard having a magical ability that can penetrate defenses is not beyond the pale.
In DnD yes it is. There is a counter for it. You aren't thinking of a Wizard, you are thinking of a god.
0
ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited August 2014
There's definitely abilities in D&D (for all classes) that bypass defenses and "autohit", but they usually require ANOTHER ability to hit the target and penetrate their defense...oh, kinda like the way Assailant works right now
There's definitely abilities in D&D (for all classes) that bypass defenses and "autohit", but they usually require ANOTHER ability to hit the target and penetrate their defense...oh, kinda like the way Assailant works right now
Meehhhh yes and and no. Assailant works off of any damage and NW doesn't have misses and saves.
edit*
A case could be made for wish, but a lot of what happens with wish involves the dm too.
0
ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
That also does not do damage, which is what we were talking about, though the post you quoted if taken out of context does not make that clear I suppose.
First, i meant you have no skills for PvP, You just confirmed it in each reply you did. Second: over 3000 kills but over 6000 assistances?? ROFLMAO!!! So many Ks there i see. . Third, why do not just upload a video of you playing on Domination?? i want to see how good you are in PvP.
The real funny thing here is you cant seem to tell a wizard symbol from a ranger. The scores you mentioned are not his, they arnt even from the same class.
0
gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
That also does not do damage, which is what we were talking about, though the post you quoted if taken out of context does not make that clear I suppose.
Doesn´t matter if it doesn´t make damage. The wizard can then kill any fighter without risk or just leave him there for the next 2 hours.
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
0
gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
Easy solution vs casters: Throw stones at them! ANY damage (even 1 point of damage) breaks casters' concentration and got dizzied for a whole turn. XD
That was exactly how it worked in 2e, any damage interrupted casting. In 3e it was almost impossible to stop a wizard casting a spell past a certain level (due to the Concentration concept). But the 2e approach won´t work in Neverwinter because powers always hit unless you dodge (that´s why AC is represented as extra DR), so any class with ranged attacks will basically make casters useless.
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Comments
Hey man. GWF is not 4ed´s fighter. It´s clearly 4ed´s barbarian, who´s a striker and not a defender....
Look at the mechanichs: Unstoppable clearly simulates Rage, Sprint simulates the extra speed Barbarians had in some editions as well as the "Charge" mechanics. I really don´t know why they called this class GWF, they should have called it Barbarian from the beginning.
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Wow. I'm sorry but in every games, when you play a class with a greatsword, it's someone with the highest damages (physical, maybe with wizards) in AoE, with quite good tanking because of his massive HP but with few mobility.
Tanking is ok in preview, but the damages are no here. And I clearly prefer having the Sprint in live, Unstoppable in Preview, with few controls but with high damages when you catch someone (which would be hard).
Dude, you haven't even played on preview to make a determination on its changes. GWF were and currently are Overpowered! no matter what you want to excuse as other players poor play, the fact remains the entire server including GWF players know the GWF is OP!
So stop this constant deflection of topics and comments into individual skill, as the GWF did NOT require skill to be successful in comparison to the other classes.
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Then interestingly they forget out the Barbarian fatigue after rage...
Then i should tank the hell out of any class.
Right now devs are trying to make a fast gap-closing striker with less survivability, but the overnerf plus other classes buffs and bugs may have a bigger impact than They expect.
You can! You just need to spec tank? See what I did there...
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Check your private message lol
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
No that is not balanced, the CW assailing force shouldn't mitigate all defense and cc immunity. However a 26k hp GWF with rank 7s, Destroyers Grim set and 50% blue gear shouldn't be making a judgement on how OP other classes are whilst they are in full Black Ice Corrupted sets.
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Told y'all will get fixed very fast.
Now remains to be seen if the CW is still viable lol. "Fixing" stuff on classes is as dangerous as it gets in Neverwinter.
*Most* things. Some things don't. As I said it shouldn't be commonplace or easy to do. Assailant is a capstone feat after all. And it does about 10% of total DPS. Not a huge number. Maybe that number could be even lower, that's fine. But there is nothing wrong in principle of having some magical ability that cuts through defenses. By saying that there shouldn't be anything that cuts through defenses, as what the PVPers are complaining about, that just relegates CWs to the same level as ordinary fighters. Well then, if CWs are gonna be treated like ordinary fighters, then give us real armor and knives and swords. But as long as CWs only get cloth robes and orbs, then we gotta have something to fight with.
Please list a spell that has no save, no ranged or physical touch attack, and doesn't respect spell penetration.
I don't know. I honestly don't know all THAT much about D&D. I'm just saying that the idea of a wizard having a magical ability that can penetrate defenses is not beyond the pale.
Meehhhh yes and and no. Assailant works off of any damage and NW doesn't have misses and saves.
edit*
A case could be made for wish, but a lot of what happens with wish involves the dm too.
Which why arguing about D&D tabletop rules in a video game is silly :rolleyes:
Yeah, it's gotten away from my point which is damage that doesn't respect dr is bad mmo game design and not part of pnp dnd so it has no place here.
No, I"m not asking for every CW ability to penetrate defenses. I'm asking for one, and only one, very difficult ability.
http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Forcecage
PnP D&D has always been a caster-fest until 4e.
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
The real funny thing here is you cant seem to tell a wizard symbol from a ranger. The scores you mentioned are not his, they arnt even from the same class.
Doesn´t matter if it doesn´t make damage. The wizard can then kill any fighter without risk or just leave him there for the next 2 hours.
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
That was exactly how it worked in 2e, any damage interrupted casting. In 3e it was almost impossible to stop a wizard casting a spell past a certain level (due to the Concentration concept). But the 2e approach won´t work in Neverwinter because powers always hit unless you dodge (that´s why AC is represented as extra DR), so any class with ranged attacks will basically make casters useless.
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Not quite. The fighter isn't dead, not right away, and the key to surviving anything is preparation. http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Rod_of_Cancellation
So basically becoming another caster. My fighters in 2e/3e were Christmas' trees of magic items. Didn´t like that.... 4e is my cup of cake.
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
thanks.
do not reply to this mod note. send me a PM instead if you'd like to discuss it.