I just wanted to say that I really appreciate the effort the developers are going through with these changes. In that vein, I want to put positive feedback in as well because frankly you guys are doing an overall great job at the rework.
I actually really like the lowered cap on Singularity as it makes putting Entangling Force in your tab slot value added; it's gather effect seems functionally unlimited while dealing low damage, which I believe was already the case. Either way, it's attractive as an option now.
It feels like a challenge to keep add's on my Icy Terrain with EF, but it pays off with the uncapped slow while proc'ing useful effects such as smolder or terror from an enchantment. It's utility, not it's damage, was given a great boost with this patch and I like it.
Also, I tremendously enjoy the extra cooldown chance for Icy Terrain and Entangling Force. They are a great pairing with EF on tab even without Shatter. (And always were. It's just more attractive now.)
I tried out the Shatter effect from Oppressor and it seems to be too good; I'm assuming it's not supposed to proc nearly as often as it does. Perhaps it's missing an internal cool down? Either way I like the tree now that it's cap feat is moving away from Ice Storm.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
The cast time changes are class destroying. Please dont push these live. Reduce damage, feats as you always have if needed. But DONT touch the way the class plays with no cast times.
Bug: Sudden Storm by adding the 5 stacks of chill with SS on the 6th stack of chill added with COI or other means the target isn't freezing
Feedback: Sudden Storm The damage was indeed high, i understand the damage nerf (don't agree with it but understand) but the cooldown nerf makes no sense to me, besides the opressor tree that makes it usable as a control spell (the cooldown is still too high since the area of effect of SS is tricky you miss a lot, so the low cooldown was always there to make up for the missed Sudden Storm.
My idea: leave the cooldown like it was before, and don't nerf so much the damage, it's indeed a storm attack, if you leave it this way, stormspell mages will vanish because we lose the only 2 reasons good reasons to be SpellStorm..
FeedBack: Eye of the storm Make it 10/15s, the cooldown is too high yet to be worth being used, it is not OP, it is an interesting feat that allow us to focuss on other things than critical, and still not be in disavantaged because our critical is low, also since it is only triggered mostly by encounters, sometimes not even a full rotation activates EotS, so what use would we have if it has a cooldown after activate and it only activates after we used almost all our powers? make it a higher chance to proc if you wanna add a big cooldown
Feedback: Singularity singularity is by all means the best Team Support control power of CW, nerf its damage but not the mobs it affected, due to the already low mob capacity (15) it was barely used, now i don't see how any mage would use it, due to the fact that it does make monster immune to damage for a while, and mobs are still free to jump from singularity at any time if they can
Feedback: Shard of Endless avalanche Now this is some interesting matter, while the high prone effect you added is indeed a huge compensation, it still barely does damage now, it's the highest power of encounters on CW tree, yeah the damage was high, but 60% damage is alot, also with the feats change we used on AoE, and Thaumaturge Shard boost feat being nerfed, it's not just 60% we're talking about way more, i'd recomend you nerf just 20/30% of the damage, or you probably won't be seeing many CWs using it anytime, 'cause on PVE the blow up that separates the mobs was already something to hate, now it blows and barely does damage, nobody will want a shard using CW in team
sincerely:
A CW that hopes for a better future!
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited June 2014
As it stands, it seems like Spellstorm Renegades are taking an inordinately painful nerf here. MoF builds are pretty much ok, and the Oppressor and Thaumaturge trees still offer quite a bit. After spending a few hours testing out some builds, the Renegade Tree is by far the weakest, and I'm asking myself why would a wizard go there? It would be cool to see the Oppressor Tree as the "Control" tree, the Thaumturge as the "Damage" tree and the Renegade as the "Chaotic Buff" tree Here's some ideas:
[*]Phantasmal Destruction: When you deal Combat Advantage damage you have a 25% chance (down from 100%) to grant 3/6/9/12/15% Critical Severity for 6 seconds.
This seems pretty weak for a T3 Paragon feat. 15% Critical Severity isn't very much of a damage boost. It'd be nice to see this buff applied to the entire party.
[*]Energy Recovery: Now grants 1/2/3/4/5% (up from .15/.3/.45/.6/.75%) of your HP as Temp HP and .2/.4/.6/.8/1% (up from .15/.3/.45/.6/.75%) Temp HP for each additional target hit.
Make the temporary hit points stack on anyone within range of the AOE from Chilling Cloud, as well as the Wizard.
[*]Chilling Advantage: This feat now grants 1/2/3/4/5% chance to Crit to all Encounter Powers (rather than Cold Powers).
Basically forces Renegades to use Chilling Presence. I would make this a straight Crit chance to ALL powers (no class feature requirement), and maybe share it with the group, like the buff from Rogues.
[*]Chaos Magic: *REWORK* Dealing Damage to targets has a chance to apply Chaos Magic to yourself. When you are affected by Chaos Magic you cannot be affected by a new Chaos Magic. You will be affected by Chaotic Growth, Chaotic Nexus, or Chaotic Fury.
Chaotic Growth - Heal yourself for 200% weapon damage every second for 10 seconds.
Chaotic Nexus - You gain 5% additional Armor Penetration and Critical Chance for 10 seconds.
Chaotic Fury - You gain gain 10% additional Power and Lifesteal for 10 seconds.
Again, make the buff party wide. Otherwise, it's quite weak for a capstone ability. +% to abilities other than power are extremely weak, thanks to diminishing returns on stats. Chances are most Wizards are going to be at or near the caps for Armor Pen, Crit and Lifesteal, meaning that the buffs from Chaos Magic don't do much.
EYE OF THE STORM: Keep the time and ICD the same, but make it a debuff. When something is debuffed by Eye of the Storm, every hit they receive for the duration is a critical hit. Again, it's a nice buff to the team damage (and thus not skewing the power of CW's over other classes) and also makes it a very lethal skill to bring into PvP. While the CW might not be the king of the hill, any one who eats a EotS debuff is going to have a very bad day. But again, the CW is bringing a lot more to the group, and it makes Spellstorm Mages have a very desirable and interesting mechanic they bring to a group.
"Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
Again, make the buff party wide. Otherwise, it's quite weak for a capstone ability. +% to abilities other than power are extremely weak, thanks to diminishing returns on stats. Chances are most Wizards are going to be at or near the caps for Armor Pen, Crit and Lifesteal, meaning that the buffs from Chaos Magic don't do much.
I barely have any AP yet and not even 10% life steal so I'd choose this over the old chaos magic any day. And as a renegade MoF, more crit chance is essential.
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kieranmtornMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 382Arc User
edited June 2014
Prior: re-spec to work-around useless or broken feats:
a) EotS is a waste of a feat slot for the top SS/CW feat (I loathe internal cool downs). You can't cast for fear of triggering it, then having to wait on the cool down before you can start a major mob, then if you're careful, you'll get a use it hopefully with the right trigger event. I would prefer the old setup with EotS just being a Critical Chance add to your base odds.
b) Magic Missiles primary utility was the Capstone feat on the Renegade tree & its DPS rate. Building Arcane stacks - that's was what Steal Time takes care of.
c) Tried increasing wisdom to work around re-charge times of spells (didn't work for me).
FeedBack: Renegade SpellStorm CW:
Feat - Nightmare(5), Phantasm Destruction(5), Chilling Advantage(5), Chilling Control(5), Bitter Control(5), Critical Power(5), Chaos Magic.
Loadout: Feat - Evocation, Feated Chilling Presense. Skills Oppressive Force, Singularity, Chill Strike (mastery), Steal Time, Sudden Storm, Shard of Endless Advance. Applicable stats - Power(5200), Crit(2300), Recovery(3500), Armor Pen(2200).
Tested on first mob of ChillTooth Trolls (2 Trolls, 2 War Trolls, 1 BloodChanter).
Observations:
a) Shard is very erratic (graphic bugs, lag, game engine issues).
b) Nightmare Wizardry is pointless - I had time to run through my rotation enough times to cast Oppressive Force 4 times and Nightmare Wizardry proc'd 1 time. What a waste of feat points, unfortunately the alternative Unrestrained Chaos is even more useless (since Maelstrom of Chaos is waste of a daily power).
c) I found the cool down changes caused real problem with my casting rotations/rhythm. The lengthened casting time for Chill Strike was an irritant, but not a real problem (unlike what the low level CW's will face before they have other spell choices).
d) Due to the utility of the High Vizier/Steal Time combo, it's even more important that that you lead any major damage rotations with Steal Time: ie: Open with a chill cause, cast Steal Time, Oppressive Force, Sudden Storm (cast while OF is in effect, before Mob moves).
e) Phantasm Destruction: no indication that it ever processed.
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
edited June 2014
I thought the EotS would be a burden. Was thinking about the same thing. If you proc it when you don't want it to, it wears off when your encounter finally comes off cooldown.
Highly doubt people in IWD are biding their time fishing for it to proc with at-wills.
Remove the cooldown, but decrease the severity by a sum.
This is PVP post not PVE. My Single Target damage or full rotation of attacks has taken a huge hit when I respec from Live SS Thaum to Mimic SS Renegade.
This is with Crit squeezing out every bit of dmg I can.
I don't believe single target powers should have: damage reduced or casting times increased.
Feedback: SS Oppressor
1) Tested vs 2 other similarly geared CWs. Powerful perma freeze win 2/3 vs other CWs.
2) Shard nerf makes it useless in PVP, by moving the damge from shard to Steal time the CW has been
effectively crippled even further in pvp. CWs use shard and ST in conjunction in PVE anyway so
damage move is useless for them and a game breaker for PVP.
3) Testing vs similarly geared GF, impossible to kill them with current nerf, they need not fear our damage so CC is irrelevent.
FEEDBACK: Shard of the Endless Avalanche
1) Damage makes it useless in PVP
2) Buggy although it feels more responsive, did not knock down or affect target when moved immediately after dropp
FEEDBACK: Magic Missile:
1) Clunky- Ray of Frost will now be the go to at will or even Chilling cloud.
2) Animations arent matching with the particle effects
Question/Suggestion: Does the first two strikes of Magic Missile refresh the Arcane Mastery's buff? If not, could they be made to, since the overall time it takes to get to the third strike has been increased by almost 60%? Or is the duratin of the Arcane Mastery buff being increased to account for the increased time it takes to cast at-wills and encounters?
Magic Missile: The first two strikes can be chained together about 40% slower. The third strike of Magic Missile now takes 1.4 seconds to fire (up from 1.2).
Chill Strike: This power now takes 1.2 seconds to fire (up from 1 second).
Chill Strike: This power has had its recharge time increased to 15 seconds (up from 13 seconds).
Entangling Force: This power now takes 1.2 seconds to fire (up from 1 second).
Ray of Enfeeblement: This power now takes 1.5 seconds to fire (up from .9 seconds).
Ray of Enfeeblement: This power has had its recharge time increased to 18 seconds (up from 14).
Ice Knife: This power now takes 1.2 seconds to fire (up from .93 seconds).
The changes in activation times make it impossible to fight any class as a damage build in PvP (Thaumaturge or Renegade).The attacks cannot be chained fast enough in order to counter GWF/HR attacks. They are also not fast enough to counter perma-freeze Oppressor CWs. The skills cannot be chained fast enough to catch a TR out of stealth. The damage is not high enough to kill any class, including the DC, but this is a problem of the feats, not the encounters (which I will be happy to test thoroughly if I see the old activation times restored). The most crucial, PvP-affecting change is the Magic Missile. If you decide to lower the damage, please tweak the damage itself, not the activation times. The current changes have destroyed all possible damage builds for PvP, leaving only pure controlling/non-killing builds viable (Oppressor), since their main encounters' activation times have not been changed.
Also, please consider restoring the old cooldowns on the mentioned skills, because they only affect PvP and put an already-weak class (in terms of PvP) into disadvantage. I did not feel the disadvantage from the higher cooldowns, though, because the changes in spell activation times were rendering me useless.
Due to the cooldown and activation time increases, it is impossible to keep up 5 Arcane Stacks in a fight!
This has been tested on 06/30/14 on the Test Shard on a standard PvP Renegade (RoE on Mastery, Chill Strike, Entangling Force, Repel) and PvP Thaumaturge (Icy Rays on Mastery, Ray of Enfeeblement, Entangling Force, Chill Strike) with best-in-slot gear (full rank 10s, legendary artifacts, perfects, etc.) against all 6 classes, all as common PvP builds, all best-in-slot.
Please reconsider the activation time changes and consider tweaking the damage instead. The current changes break the mechanics of PvP CW damage builds. They also have a huge negative impact on old players, who have been playing this game for over a year and got used to certain "responses". This is a change that is acceptable in Beta. As for now, I think you should stick to damage/target cap changes. Neverwinter is based on DnD, but NW itself is not a board game. The mechanics are way more complex, and for me as an old player, the activation time changes present a completely new class that responds differently to my "commands". Now, the outcome (damage on target, how it hits, etc.) doesn't matter that much to me. I "feel" the class, every move, one after the other. If you change the activation times, you take that "feeling" away from me. I'm pretty sure that newer players might get used to it, but I, as an old player, cannot. You would take away from me what keeps me attached to the character, and by this to the game.
It occurs to me that I might not understand the description of the change to Magic Missile correctly. What does it mean that it "can be chained together about 40% slower"? Is it just evasive wording so as not to say they nerfed the speed 40%, because it makes it sound like it's somehow an "optional" thing.
If so, then how do I choose to not chain the first two strikes 40% slower?
Or does it mean that you have a 40% longer window to not break the chain of the attack between the 1st and 2nd strike?
The changes in activation times make it impossible to fight any class as a damage build in PvP (Thaumaturge or Renegade).The attacks cannot be chained fast enough in order to counter GWF/HR attacks. They are also not fast enough to counter perma-freeze Oppressor CWs. The skills cannot be chained fast enough to catch a TR out of stealth. The damage is not high enough to kill any class, including the DC, but this is a problem of the feats, not the encounters (which I will be happy to test thoroughly if I see the old activation times restored). The most crucial, PvP-affecting change is the Magic Missile. If you decide to lower the damage, please tweak the damage itself, not the activation times. The current changes have destroyed all possible damage builds for PvP, leaving only pure controlling/non-killing builds viable (Oppressor), since their main encounters' activation times have not been changed.
Also, please consider restoring the old cooldowns on the mentioned skills, because they only affect PvP and put an already-weak class (in terms of PvP) into disadvantage. I did not feel the disadvantage from the higher cooldowns, though, because the changes in spell activation times were rendering me useless.
This has been tested on 06/30/14 on the Test Shard on a standard PvP Renegade (RoE on Mastery, Chill Strike, Entangling Force, Repel) and PvP Thaumaturge (Icy Rays on Mastery, Ray of Enfeeblement, Entangling Force, Chill Strike) with best-in-slot gear (full rank 10s, legendary artifacts, perfects, etc.) against all 6 classes, all as common PvP builds, all best-in-slot.
Please reconsider the activation time changes and consider tweaking the damage instead. The current changes break the mechanics of PvP CW damage builds. They have also a huge negative effect on old players, who have been playing this game for over a year and got used to certain "responses". This is a change that is acceptable in Beta. As for now, I think you should stick to damage/target cap changes. Neverwinter is based on DnD, but NW itself is not a board game. The mechanics are way more complex, and for me as an old player, the activation time changes present a completely new class that responds differently to my "commands". Now, the outcome (damage on target, how it hits, etc.) doesn't matter that much to me. I "feel" the class, every move, one after the other. If you change the activation times, you take that "feeling" away from me. I'm pretty sure that newer players might get used to it, but I, as an old player, cannot. You would take away from me what keeps me attached to the character, and by this to the game.
I did the exact same thing. I tested both pvp and pve. Using Single Target PVE vs Yeti and wolves: Their powers activate much quicker than mine would and I'd get interrupted time and time again. Even when i begin casting before they do.
Casting times on single target powers should remain the same or lowered.
Side NOTE Shard and Sudden storm "miss" their target a good amount of the time because they are cumbersome to use. This should be taken into account when calculating actual damage potential.
The changes in activation times make it impossible to fight any class as a damage build in PvP (Thaumaturge or Renegade).The attacks cannot be chained fast enough in order to counter GWF/HR attacks. They are also not fast enough to counter perma-freeze Oppressor CWs. The skills cannot be chained fast enough to catch a TR out of stealth. The damage is not high enough to kill any class, including the DC, but this is a problem of the feats, not the encounters (which I will be happy to test thoroughly if I see the old activation times restored). The most crucial, PvP-affecting change is the Magic Missile. If you decide to lower the damage, please tweak the damage itself, not the activation times. The current changes have destroyed all possible damage builds for PvP, leaving only pure controlling/non-killing builds viable (Oppressor), since their main encounters' activation times have not been changed.
Also, please consider restoring the old cooldowns on the mentioned skills, because they only affect PvP and put an already-weak class (in terms of PvP) into disadvantage. I did not feel the disadvantage from the higher cooldowns, though, because the changes in spell activation times were rendering me useless.
Due to the cooldown and activation time increases, it is impossible to keep up 5 Arcane Stacks in a fight!
This has been tested on 06/30/14 on the Test Shard on a standard PvP Renegade (RoE on Mastery, Chill Strike, Entangling Force, Repel) and PvP Thaumaturge (Icy Rays on Mastery, Ray of Enfeeblement, Entangling Force, Chill Strike) with best-in-slot gear (full rank 10s, legendary artifacts, perfects, etc.) against all 6 classes, all as common PvP builds, all best-in-slot.
Please reconsider the activation time changes and consider tweaking the damage instead. The current changes break the mechanics of PvP CW damage builds. They have also a huge negative effect on old players, who have been playing this game for over a year and got used to certain "responses". This is a change that is acceptable in Beta. As for now, I think you should stick to damage/target cap changes. Neverwinter is based on DnD, but NW itself is not a board game. The mechanics are way more complex, and for me as an old player, the activation time changes present a completely new class that responds differently to my "commands". Now, the outcome (damage on target, how it hits, etc.) doesn't matter that much to me. I "feel" the class, every move, one after the other. If you change the activation times, you take that "feeling" away from me. I'm pretty sure that newer players might get used to it, but I, as an old player, cannot. You would take away from me what keeps me attached to the character, and by this to the game.
The Devs should really listen to what Meld has to say, he's the top PvP CW in this game, but if you look at the leaderboard, there are hardly any CWs up there. Why? Because they're so weak already, if you increase casting time on all these skills, CWs will be totally destroyed as a class in both PvE and PvP.
CWs deserves a damage nerf in PvE, but they need major buffs in PvP. Consider what the outcome will be when implementing these changes. If you want to keep the old players in this game, listen to them (the top players, not the 8k GS pugs that gets 2 shotted by them).
Have the gear and skills, but lack the friends to play with? Come and apply for Essence of Aggression. We have been here and strong since beta. (Immature, rude, and arrogant people will not be accepted)
Pretty much agree with everything he says. Its kinda hard to take this game seriously when the DEVs think PvE spells are used for PvP and visa versa.
You must understand that single target spells are for PvP, and AoE spells are for PvE. And when you destroy all single target spells you are forcing us out of this game. Which you should consider that its mostly PvPers who buy ZEN to get their enchants to rank 10, since you kinda only need rank 10s for PvP. Already enough PvPers have quit the game, only due to the preview patch notes, just imagine how many will quit after the mod gets released (if it stays like this of course).
As he said, changes of this caliber can be made in beta, but not every module please. I have watched pvp get destroyed and turned on its head every module you have put out there. If the changes with casting times stays, this is it for me as well.
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electricpantiesMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited July 2014
IF thease changes go live for any of the listed classes It is time to move on to the next fun game and teach this dev team the lesson so many teams before them Forget. nerfing a few classes into he ground over pvp whines is not the answer. Prepare for a pay-cut fellas.
Pretty much agree with everything he says. Its kinda hard to take this game seriously when the DEVs think PvE spells are used for PvP and visa versa.
You must understand that single target spells are for PvP, and AoE spells are for PvE. And when you destroy all single target spells you are forcing us out of this game. Which you should consider that its mostly PvPers who buy ZEN to get their enchants to rank 10, since you kinda only need rank 10s for PvP. Already enough PvPers have quit the game, only due to the preview patch notes, just imagine how many will quit after the mod gets released (if it stays like this of course).
As he said, changes of this caliber can be made in beta, but not every module please. I have watched pvp get destroyed and turned on its head every module you have put out there. If the changes with casting times stays, this is it for me as well.
While true in many cases, this is not strictly true. In fights like Fulminorax, Valindra, and Hrimner, CWs do use single target spells and it is important to do so. Also, while casting times are more critical in PvP, as demonstrated by a poster above, longer activations times can also be problematic in PvE as well.
Hey all, we have been testing and tweaking further timing changes. To try and keep the gameplay as fluid as players are currently enjoying we are readjusting many of the single target spell timings and adjusting their damage to keep them in line. The overall potential output should not change much on test, but the spells should feel much more responsive and fluid.
Magic Missile: Casting times have been reverted to their live state. Damage has been reduced by roughly 32%.
Chill Strike: Casting time reduced to 1 second. Damage reduced by roughly 15%
Conduit of Ice: Casting time reduced to 1 second. Damage reduced by roughly 17%.
Entangling Force: Casting time reduced to 1 second.
Ray of Enfeeblement: Casting time reduced to .9 seconds. Damage reduced by roughly 32%
Master of Flame: Fanning the Flame: Casting time reduced to 1 second. Base damage reduced by roughly 33%.
Spellstorm: Sudden Storm: Damage increased by roughly 25%
Please revert that delay increase on Magic Missiles and Ray of Enfeeblement. It feels reeeeally wrong to use them on preview. If you want to nerf if due to the ArP fix, please slightly decrease its damage, but don't increase the delay of it.
One of the fun parts of CW is their agility. Please don't take this away from us.
Doesn't matter if they did; it's what's motivating the nerfs. The increased casting time and delays are so other classes have more time to either dodge or interrupt the CW. Seems like Mod 4 is going to be a PvP focused update.
I'm guessing that means there's going to be more open PvP zones that will necessitate stricter PvP balance. I just hope one of the Devs will remember there's still the rest of the game before endgame PvP, that these changes will also affect.
Hey all, we have been testing and tweaking further timing changes. To try and keep the gameplay as fluid as players are currently enjoying we are readjusting many of the single target spell timings and adjusting their damage to keep them in line. The overall potential output should not change much on test, but the spells should feel much more responsive and fluid.
Magic Missile: Casting times have been reverted to their live state. Damage has been reduced by roughly 32%.
Chill Strike: Casting time reduced to 1 second. Damage reduced by roughly 15%
Conduit of Ice: Casting time reduced to 1 second. Damage reduced by roughly 17%.
Entangling Force: Casting time reduced to 1 second.
Ray of Enfeeblement: Casting time reduced to .9 seconds. Damage reduced by roughly 32%
Master of Flame: Fanning the Flame: Casting time reduced to 1 second. Base damage reduced by roughly 33%.
Spellstorm: Sudden Storm: Damage increased by roughly 25%
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
You have to add MORE CONTROL.
You can add control to Entangle, Chill strike and Icy rays. Give them more stun etc.
And you forgot the Iceknife.
Ice Knife: This power now takes 1.2 seconds to fire (up from .93 seconds).
Ray of Enfeeblement
Getting unlotted now. Less damage, no control, useless in PvP.
Hey all, we have been testing and tweaking further timing changes. To try and keep the gameplay as fluid as players are currently enjoying we are readjusting many of the single target spell timings and adjusting their damage to keep them in line. The overall potential output should not change much on test, but the spells should feel much more responsive and fluid.
Magic Missile: Casting times have been reverted to their live state. Damage has been reduced by roughly 32%.
Chill Strike: Casting time reduced to 1 second. Damage reduced by roughly 15%
Conduit of Ice: Casting time reduced to 1 second. Damage reduced by roughly 17%.
Entangling Force: Casting time reduced to 1 second.
Ray of Enfeeblement: Casting time reduced to .9 seconds. Damage reduced by roughly 32%
Master of Flame: Fanning the Flame: Casting time reduced to 1 second. Base damage reduced by roughly 33%.
Spellstorm: Sudden Storm: Damage increased by roughly 25%
Hey all, we have been testing and tweaking further timing changes. To try and keep the gameplay as fluid as players are currently enjoying we are readjusting many of the single target spell timings and adjusting their damage to keep them in line. The overall potential output should not change much on test, but the spells should feel much more responsive and fluid.
Magic Missile: Casting times have been reverted to their live state. Damage has been reduced by roughly 32%.
Chill Strike: Casting time reduced to 1 second. Damage reduced by roughly 15%
Conduit of Ice: Casting time reduced to 1 second. Damage reduced by roughly 17%.
Entangling Force: Casting time reduced to 1 second.
Ray of Enfeeblement: Casting time reduced to .9 seconds. Damage reduced by roughly 32%
Master of Flame: Fanning the Flame: Casting time reduced to 1 second. Base damage reduced by roughly 33%.
Spellstorm: Sudden Storm: Damage increased by roughly 25%
ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
edited July 2014
Buff cast time back to normal, reduce damage..!? WHY? Magic missile, RoE, and FtF aren't even control spells. It's bad enough that thaum and renegade were nerfed to oblivion!
Not sure why they'll keep nerfing these single target spells, it's not like CWs already are the kings of PVP. But with nice control it might not matter as much.
Maybe they want to separate them further to the upcoming (single target?) Warlocks.
M. Gentleman Crush... Almost all our spell have been nerfed. From a developper perspective, what do we have for defending ourselves ? I mean : for survivability, if we can't kill or control our opponents (in PVP or PVE with the hundreds mobs ?)
Can we have a shield or a plate armor ? Or be stealth ? Or a healing power ?
(sorry for my bad english)
Chaotic neutral - so i can do whatever the hell i want
Comments
I actually really like the lowered cap on Singularity as it makes putting Entangling Force in your tab slot value added; it's gather effect seems functionally unlimited while dealing low damage, which I believe was already the case. Either way, it's attractive as an option now.
It feels like a challenge to keep add's on my Icy Terrain with EF, but it pays off with the uncapped slow while proc'ing useful effects such as smolder or terror from an enchantment. It's utility, not it's damage, was given a great boost with this patch and I like it.
Also, I tremendously enjoy the extra cooldown chance for Icy Terrain and Entangling Force. They are a great pairing with EF on tab even without Shatter. (And always were. It's just more attractive now.)
I tried out the Shatter effect from Oppressor and it seems to be too good; I'm assuming it's not supposed to proc nearly as often as it does. Perhaps it's missing an internal cool down? Either way I like the tree now that it's cap feat is moving away from Ice Storm.
by adding the 5 stacks of chill with SS on the 6th stack of chill added with COI or other means the target isn't freezing
Feedback: Sudden Storm
The damage was indeed high, i understand the damage nerf (don't agree with it but understand) but the cooldown nerf makes no sense to me, besides the opressor tree that makes it usable as a control spell (the cooldown is still too high since the area of effect of SS is tricky you miss a lot, so the low cooldown was always there to make up for the missed Sudden Storm.
My idea: leave the cooldown like it was before, and don't nerf so much the damage, it's indeed a storm attack, if you leave it this way, stormspell mages will vanish because we lose the only 2 reasons good reasons to be SpellStorm..
FeedBack: Eye of the storm
Make it 10/15s, the cooldown is too high yet to be worth being used, it is not OP, it is an interesting feat that allow us to focuss on other things than critical, and still not be in disavantaged because our critical is low, also since it is only triggered mostly by encounters, sometimes not even a full rotation activates EotS, so what use would we have if it has a cooldown after activate and it only activates after we used almost all our powers? make it a higher chance to proc if you wanna add a big cooldown
Feedback: Singularity
singularity is by all means the best Team Support control power of CW, nerf its damage but not the mobs it affected, due to the already low mob capacity (15) it was barely used, now i don't see how any mage would use it, due to the fact that it does make monster immune to damage for a while, and mobs are still free to jump from singularity at any time if they can
Feedback: Shard of Endless avalanche
Now this is some interesting matter, while the high prone effect you added is indeed a huge compensation, it still barely does damage now, it's the highest power of encounters on CW tree, yeah the damage was high, but 60% damage is alot, also with the feats change we used on AoE, and Thaumaturge Shard boost feat being nerfed, it's not just 60% we're talking about way more, i'd recomend you nerf just 20/30% of the damage, or you probably won't be seeing many CWs using it anytime, 'cause on PVE the blow up that separates the mobs was already something to hate, now it blows and barely does damage, nobody will want a shard using CW in team
sincerely:
A CW that hopes for a better future!
This seems pretty weak for a T3 Paragon feat. 15% Critical Severity isn't very much of a damage boost. It'd be nice to see this buff applied to the entire party.
Make the temporary hit points stack on anyone within range of the AOE from Chilling Cloud, as well as the Wizard.
Basically forces Renegades to use Chilling Presence. I would make this a straight Crit chance to ALL powers (no class feature requirement), and maybe share it with the group, like the buff from Rogues.
Again, make the buff party wide. Otherwise, it's quite weak for a capstone ability. +% to abilities other than power are extremely weak, thanks to diminishing returns on stats. Chances are most Wizards are going to be at or near the caps for Armor Pen, Crit and Lifesteal, meaning that the buffs from Chaos Magic don't do much.
EYE OF THE STORM: Keep the time and ICD the same, but make it a debuff. When something is debuffed by Eye of the Storm, every hit they receive for the duration is a critical hit. Again, it's a nice buff to the team damage (and thus not skewing the power of CW's over other classes) and also makes it a very lethal skill to bring into PvP. While the CW might not be the king of the hill, any one who eats a EotS debuff is going to have a very bad day. But again, the CW is bringing a lot more to the group, and it makes Spellstorm Mages have a very desirable and interesting mechanic they bring to a group.
I barely have any AP yet and not even 10% life steal so I'd choose this over the old chaos magic any day. And as a renegade MoF, more crit chance is essential.
a) EotS is a waste of a feat slot for the top SS/CW feat (I loathe internal cool downs). You can't cast for fear of triggering it, then having to wait on the cool down before you can start a major mob, then if you're careful, you'll get a use it hopefully with the right trigger event. I would prefer the old setup with EotS just being a Critical Chance add to your base odds.
b) Magic Missiles primary utility was the Capstone feat on the Renegade tree & its DPS rate. Building Arcane stacks - that's was what Steal Time takes care of.
c) Tried increasing wisdom to work around re-charge times of spells (didn't work for me).
FeedBack: Renegade SpellStorm CW:
Feat - Nightmare(5), Phantasm Destruction(5), Chilling Advantage(5), Chilling Control(5), Bitter Control(5), Critical Power(5), Chaos Magic.
Loadout: Feat - Evocation, Feated Chilling Presense. Skills Oppressive Force, Singularity, Chill Strike (mastery), Steal Time, Sudden Storm, Shard of Endless Advance. Applicable stats - Power(5200), Crit(2300), Recovery(3500), Armor Pen(2200).
Tested on first mob of ChillTooth Trolls (2 Trolls, 2 War Trolls, 1 BloodChanter).
Observations:
a) Shard is very erratic (graphic bugs, lag, game engine issues).
b) Nightmare Wizardry is pointless - I had time to run through my rotation enough times to cast Oppressive Force 4 times and Nightmare Wizardry proc'd 1 time. What a waste of feat points, unfortunately the alternative Unrestrained Chaos is even more useless (since Maelstrom of Chaos is waste of a daily power).
c) I found the cool down changes caused real problem with my casting rotations/rhythm. The lengthened casting time for Chill Strike was an irritant, but not a real problem (unlike what the low level CW's will face before they have other spell choices).
d) Due to the utility of the High Vizier/Steal Time combo, it's even more important that that you lead any major damage rotations with Steal Time: ie: Open with a chill cause, cast Steal Time, Oppressive Force, Sudden Storm (cast while OF is in effect, before Mob moves).
e) Phantasm Destruction: no indication that it ever processed.
Highly doubt people in IWD are biding their time fishing for it to proc with at-wills.
Remove the cooldown, but decrease the severity by a sum.
My Single Target damage or full rotation of attacks has taken a huge hit when I respec from Live SS Thaum to Mimic SS Renegade.
This is with Crit squeezing out every bit of dmg I can.
I don't believe single target powers should have: damage reduced or casting times increased.
1) Tested vs 2 other similarly geared CWs. Powerful perma freeze win 2/3 vs other CWs.
2) Shard nerf makes it useless in PVP, by moving the damge from shard to Steal time the CW has been
effectively crippled even further in pvp. CWs use shard and ST in conjunction in PVE anyway so
damage move is useless for them and a game breaker for PVP.
3) Testing vs similarly geared GF, impossible to kill them with current nerf, they need not fear our damage so CC is irrelevent.
FEEDBACK: Shard of the Endless Avalanche
1) Damage makes it useless in PVP
2) Buggy although it feels more responsive, did not knock down or affect target when moved immediately after dropp
FEEDBACK: Magic Missile:
1) Clunky- Ray of Frost will now be the go to at will or even Chilling cloud.
2) Animations arent matching with the particle effects
This is the issue I have noticed too with the Shard.
Devs: please make shard hit single target hard. If you want to nerf it please do it by reducing damage based on number of targets hit.
The changes in activation times make it impossible to fight any class as a damage build in PvP (Thaumaturge or Renegade). The attacks cannot be chained fast enough in order to counter GWF/HR attacks. They are also not fast enough to counter perma-freeze Oppressor CWs. The skills cannot be chained fast enough to catch a TR out of stealth. The damage is not high enough to kill any class, including the DC, but this is a problem of the feats, not the encounters (which I will be happy to test thoroughly if I see the old activation times restored). The most crucial, PvP-affecting change is the Magic Missile. If you decide to lower the damage, please tweak the damage itself, not the activation times. The current changes have destroyed all possible damage builds for PvP, leaving only pure controlling/non-killing builds viable (Oppressor), since their main encounters' activation times have not been changed.
Also, please consider restoring the old cooldowns on the mentioned skills, because they only affect PvP and put an already-weak class (in terms of PvP) into disadvantage. I did not feel the disadvantage from the higher cooldowns, though, because the changes in spell activation times were rendering me useless.
Due to the cooldown and activation time increases, it is impossible to keep up 5 Arcane Stacks in a fight!
This has been tested on 06/30/14 on the Test Shard on a standard PvP Renegade (RoE on Mastery, Chill Strike, Entangling Force, Repel) and PvP Thaumaturge (Icy Rays on Mastery, Ray of Enfeeblement, Entangling Force, Chill Strike) with best-in-slot gear (full rank 10s, legendary artifacts, perfects, etc.) against all 6 classes, all as common PvP builds, all best-in-slot.
Please reconsider the activation time changes and consider tweaking the damage instead. The current changes break the mechanics of PvP CW damage builds. They also have a huge negative impact on old players, who have been playing this game for over a year and got used to certain "responses". This is a change that is acceptable in Beta. As for now, I think you should stick to damage/target cap changes. Neverwinter is based on DnD, but NW itself is not a board game. The mechanics are way more complex, and for me as an old player, the activation time changes present a completely new class that responds differently to my "commands". Now, the outcome (damage on target, how it hits, etc.) doesn't matter that much to me. I "feel" the class, every move, one after the other. If you change the activation times, you take that "feeling" away from me. I'm pretty sure that newer players might get used to it, but I, as an old player, cannot. You would take away from me what keeps me attached to the character, and by this to the game.
If so, then how do I choose to not chain the first two strikes 40% slower?
Or does it mean that you have a 40% longer window to not break the chain of the attack between the 1st and 2nd strike?
I did the exact same thing. I tested both pvp and pve.
Using Single Target PVE vs Yeti and wolves: Their powers activate much quicker than mine would and I'd get interrupted time and time again. Even when i begin casting before they do.
Casting times on single target powers should remain the same or lowered.
Side NOTE Shard and Sudden storm "miss" their target a good amount of the time because they are cumbersome to use. This should be taken into account when calculating actual damage potential.
The Devs should really listen to what Meld has to say, he's the top PvP CW in this game, but if you look at the leaderboard, there are hardly any CWs up there. Why? Because they're so weak already, if you increase casting time on all these skills, CWs will be totally destroyed as a class in both PvE and PvP.
CWs deserves a damage nerf in PvE, but they need major buffs in PvP. Consider what the outcome will be when implementing these changes. If you want to keep the old players in this game, listen to them (the top players, not the 8k GS pugs that gets 2 shotted by them).
Have the gear and skills, but lack the friends to play with? Come and apply for Essence of Aggression. We have been here and strong since beta. (Immature, rude, and arrogant people will not be accepted)
Pretty much agree with everything he says. Its kinda hard to take this game seriously when the DEVs think PvE spells are used for PvP and visa versa.
You must understand that single target spells are for PvP, and AoE spells are for PvE. And when you destroy all single target spells you are forcing us out of this game. Which you should consider that its mostly PvPers who buy ZEN to get their enchants to rank 10, since you kinda only need rank 10s for PvP. Already enough PvPers have quit the game, only due to the preview patch notes, just imagine how many will quit after the mod gets released (if it stays like this of course).
As he said, changes of this caliber can be made in beta, but not every module please. I have watched pvp get destroyed and turned on its head every module you have put out there. If the changes with casting times stays, this is it for me as well.
While true in many cases, this is not strictly true. In fights like Fulminorax, Valindra, and Hrimner, CWs do use single target spells and it is important to do so. Also, while casting times are more critical in PvP, as demonstrated by a poster above, longer activations times can also be problematic in PvE as well.
That was their plan all along.
Huh? Since when did CWs ever dominate pvp?
Magic Missile: Casting times have been reverted to their live state. Damage has been reduced by roughly 32%.
Chill Strike: Casting time reduced to 1 second. Damage reduced by roughly 15%
Conduit of Ice: Casting time reduced to 1 second. Damage reduced by roughly 17%.
Entangling Force: Casting time reduced to 1 second.
Ray of Enfeeblement: Casting time reduced to .9 seconds. Damage reduced by roughly 32%
Master of Flame: Fanning the Flame: Casting time reduced to 1 second. Base damage reduced by roughly 33%.
Spellstorm: Sudden Storm: Damage increased by roughly 25%
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
Please revert that delay increase on Magic Missiles and Ray of Enfeeblement. It feels reeeeally wrong to use them on preview. If you want to nerf if due to the ArP fix, please slightly decrease its damage, but don't increase the delay of it.
One of the fun parts of CW is their agility. Please don't take this away from us.
@edit
Whoa, that was fast.
Doesn't matter if they did; it's what's motivating the nerfs. The increased casting time and delays are so other classes have more time to either dodge or interrupt the CW. Seems like Mod 4 is going to be a PvP focused update.
I'm guessing that means there's going to be more open PvP zones that will necessitate stricter PvP balance. I just hope one of the Devs will remember there's still the rest of the game before endgame PvP, that these changes will also affect.
You have to add MORE CONTROL.
You can add control to Entangle, Chill strike and Icy rays. Give them more stun etc.
And you forgot the Iceknife.
Ice Knife: This power now takes 1.2 seconds to fire (up from .93 seconds).
Ray of Enfeeblement
Getting unlotted now. Less damage, no control, useless in PvP.
wow lol.... just wow
Just saying. Enough with all the PvP stuff, some of us still play PvE, yanno.
Not sure why they'll keep nerfing these single target spells, it's not like CWs already are the kings of PVP. But with nice control it might not matter as much.
Maybe they want to separate them further to the upcoming (single target?) Warlocks.
Can we have a shield or a plate armor ? Or be stealth ? Or a healing power ?
(sorry for my bad english)