Nightmare Wizardry: This feat now has a 1/2/3/4/5% chance (down from 4/8/12/16/20%) to grant you and allies combat advantage for 12 seconds (up from 4).
With a 5% chance at max points this feat has been rendered useless for me.
I have tested on live in the past with one point in glacial movement (also yielding a 5% chance) and on casting ray of frost on about 30+ dummies until frozen (180+ chill stacks), I saw the additional stack added once instead of the theoretical nine procs. Perhaps in a PVE environment where you proc eots and then have multiple dots ticking on several enemies and whatnot there would not be as much of an issue procing this feat at 5%, but in PVP it is not a chance worth banking on.
The ICD on eots will already help bring this feat down a level in terms of its proc rate. Halving the chance to 2/4/6/8/10% and making the duration 6-8secs is much more reasonable to me, especially since it is in the second level of the rene tree.
Hey guys, adding one more incoming change to the list of things going up in the next week or two. We really like the concept of Shard, but having it be bar none your best nuke was worrying, especially given that in dungeon and group content it was often pretty hard not to get the most out of it. However we do like the control aspect it does bring and the skill required to land that when there are less foes (or in PVP where it should still merit a slot). Given that we are making the following change to reinforce that.
Control Wizard: Shard of the Endless Avalanche: This power now prones NPCs for 3.5 seconds (up from 1) and prones players for 2.25 seconds (up from 1).
Thank you all for your continued feedback.
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
If its not supposed to be our best nuke then why is it the last spell on our list. By all logical points of view the last spell obtained should be your best, you waited 50 friggin levels to be able to point any points into it. And I want to know how you figure it was pretty hard not to get the most out of it when half the time it doesn't work right. It would pass through mobs or spawn behind the CW and get pushed the wrong way or not explode on impact.
I can agree that it needed to be toned down but not to entry level spells damage. At those levels why do we have to wait 50 levels to obtain it if it does the same amount of damage and control as all the spells we got when we started?
Hey guys, adding one more incoming change to the list of things going up in the next week or two. We really like the concept of Shard, but having it be bar none your best nuke was worrying, especially given that in dungeon and group content it was often pretty hard not to get the most out of it. However we do like the control aspect it does bring and the skill required to land that when there are less foes (or in PVP where it should still merit a slot). Given that we are making the following change to reinforce that.
Control Wizard: Shard of the Endless Avalanche: This power now prones NPCs for 3.5 seconds (up from 1) and prones players for 2.25 seconds (up from 1).
Thank you all for your continued feedback.
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
Oooh. Suddenly it becomes interesting again. That opens up quite a few new PvE possibilities. With the oppressor tree you can freeze enemies, summon the shard, then when the freeze wears off you can shove the shard to prone the enemies, then use the 3.5 second prone to build up the stacks of chill again. Definitely some great control possibilities opening up with that.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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silverquickMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
Hey guys, adding one more incoming change to the list of things going up in the next week or two. We really like the concept of Shard, but having it be bar none your best nuke was worrying, especially given that in dungeon and group content it was often pretty hard not to get the most out of it. However we do like the control aspect it does bring and the skill required to land that when there are less foes (or in PVP where it should still merit a slot). Given that we are making the following change to reinforce that.
Control Wizard: Shard of the Endless Avalanche: This power now prones NPCs for 3.5 seconds (up from 1) and prones players for 2.25 seconds (up from 1).
Thank you all for your continued feedback.
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
Thats still not enough Chris...
....think this one through here... post "adjustment" you're looking at around 200 damage per second at around a 16k Gear score with 7600 power. What do you think that becomes at a 12k-13k gs?
It becomes something barely useable at all.
That is excessively low for what is the equivalent of a 9th level D&D spell cast by an Archmage and the Capstone Power of the CW.
You just buffed the damage on Steal Time... which is a lower level spell than Shards, and after your Adjustment will have the same duration Stun and more damage. Where if you'd just leave BOTH powers as is, you get pretty much what you started with.
This is not a good idea and makes your crew look foolish.
You are going to have to reinstate the Damage on Shards if you want this to be the Capstone CW Power, there is a reason it is the best nuke BAR NONE for a CW. Its this game's equivalent of Meteor Swarm in D&D and the Capstone power you get at max level.
EDIT:
STEAL TIME: Whoever designed the CW class originally apparently knew that this was the real non damaging "control" spell, its actually based on the old D&D 9th level Spell called... TIME STOP. Which allowed the Wizard to stop time and cast multiple spells on the target.. then with time resumed ALL of those spells cast at once and took effect.... THIS is the one if you wanted to nerf that damage on, that would be appropriate..... Instead you Increased the damage on this spell when its own nature has nothing to do with Damage.
Shards of Endless Avalanche: This one is based on the old D&D spell called Meteor Swarm. This was the highest damage large area of effect spell the Magic User had. This one was always about damage from the beginning. This is the room clearing spell. NOT a non-damage control spell. It is inappropriate for a damage reduction. That's why its the capstone power of the CW.
*copied from a post I made in an unofficial feedback thread*
An idea I came up with to balance out the shard to put it in line with the other encounter abilities and their damage, would be that the shard wouldn't get a damage nurf at all, but instead the damage would be reworked so that the total damage it would do to 1 person would be spread out over 5 people lets say, so you don't even have to reduce the damage, you can just give it kind of a shotgun effect, the amount of pellets is always the same (10k damage) but the pellets (damage) are spread out over however many targets are hit.
ex: You crit a 10k shard explosion after hitting 1 person
You crit a 2k shard explosion after hitting 5 people, adding up to 10k
So in essence the shard won't be hitting 10k on every person, adding up to a 50k damage encounter because thats insane, but instead it will be 2k damage per person. So you will still be effective in single person combat but on the flip side fighting a number of enemies the shard will still have adequate damage but it will be spread out and won't be as overpowered as it is now in dungeons, which is probably why the damage nurf was put into the preview in the first place
Control Wizard: Shard of the Endless Avalanche: This power now prones NPCs for 3.5 seconds (up from 1) and prones players for 2.25 seconds (up from 1).
OK, sure I would like the increased prone but what I really liked was an idea someone suggested where damage for shard reduced by number of targets hit (similar I believe to DC Chains). This would mean that when used versus a single target, like on tab, it hit hard. It would also prevent the runaway damage we have with shard versus large packs of mobs in PvE.
Hey guys, adding one more incoming change to the list of things going up in the next week or two. We really like the concept of Shard, but having it be bar none your best nuke was worrying, especially given that in dungeon and group content it was often pretty hard not to get the most out of it. However we do like the control aspect it does bring and the skill required to land that when there are less foes (or in PVP where it should still merit a slot). Given that we are making the following change to reinforce that.
Control Wizard: Shard of the Endless Avalanche: This power now prones NPCs for 3.5 seconds (up from 1) and prones players for 2.25 seconds (up from 1).
Thank you all for your continued feedback.
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
The prone from the original push or from explosion?
I really like this new shard prone duration. With control bonuses CWs should be able to lock down mobs. I'm worried a bit too much, that the same situation arises to a point you do not even need healers because they perma CCed.
Hey guys, adding one more incoming change to the list of things going up in the next week or two. We really like the concept of Shard, but having it be bar none your best nuke was worrying, especially given that in dungeon and group content it was often pretty hard not to get the most out of it. However we do like the control aspect it does bring and the skill required to land that when there are less foes (or in PVP where it should still merit a slot). Given that we are making the following change to reinforce that.
Control Wizard: Shard of the Endless Avalanche: This power now prones NPCs for 3.5 seconds (up from 1) and prones players for 2.25 seconds (up from 1).
Thank you all for your continued feedback.
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
Thats sounds good. Makes up for the damage nerf on shard. Maybe buff the damage 15-20%.
What about doing the same for entangle, icy rays, chill strike? Buff the stun/choke since the damage got nerfed.
I still dont think that the control we have now makes up for the huge damge nerf for the CW in PvP.
But do you realize that people spent more than a year physically practicing rotations in all kinds of different situations? This is not a pure strategy game or something like Neverwinter Nights, where you take turns attacking. Do you understand the damage you're doing by changing casting times? You can change the damage, but not the very essence of what keeps people attached to their characters. I spent 30 minutes on preview. I wanted to run some ACT tests and see how the new feat changes work out. I couldn't do it. I can't play a CW like this. Not after over a year of practice. I already said everything here. You can change the damage, effects, destroy the class completely if you like, but you can't change the casting times. This is too much.
Have been on preview today again.
I was hitting dummies pretty ferociously, and I almost fell asleep waiting for Nightmare Wizardry or Phantasmal Destruction to proc. Renegade is already secondary tree in matters of DPS and on preview it is painful to play. I have a feeling that CWs of this Neverwinter will be spamming MoF oppressor if things do not change, and Renegade will be avoided wholesale. Why increase combat advantage, if you have little chance that feats working with it will proc? And if they do, the increase in damage will not be worth the whole fuss?
My experience today. I've tried two builds.
1. MoF Oppressor: Chilling Cloud at will, Evocation and Orb of Imposition features, Fanning the flame (on tab) CoI, Icy terrain, Steal Time.
This was one swift CW I've enjoyed playing, although neither MoF nor oppressor would be my first choice. A lot of AoE DoT skills, crit by crit (nice to watch), and Shatter procs almost every time. Nice and happy days for players who are used to such combination.
2. My current build (cultivated since Open Beta) SS Renegade: Magic Missile at will, Spell Storm and Evocation features (who cares for EotS with ICD now. Even if it lasts 4 seconds, with longer casting time it could as well last for 1 ), Sudden Storm (on tab), Steal Time, RoE, Shard.
I cast MM - slow, better focus on encounter skills.
Sudden Storm - still can crit nicely.
Steal Time - haven't noticed that buffs made it any different.
RoE - sloooooow.
Shard - damage not worth whole toil (hopefully prone will, but have to wait for implementation on preview)and it almost always lags out. And cool down on skills... I don't want to be sarcastic, but should I really consider playing with some book to read alongside?
With this two to compare, I'd also consider making MoF Oppressor If not for the fact that I want to stay true to my SS Renegade (we've been through much together). But there you have it. My old build (with slight modification - EotS removed) is not enjoyable anymore, feels sluggish, does laughable damage, and feats like Nightmare Wizardry or Phantasmal Destruction appear so rarely that they could as well be non existent.
Many would just respec to MoF OPpressor, which I think should be prevented. It won't fix a thing.
Bids he then the spruces to singer him an anthems!
And the Woodsie Lord binders them fleshes to stone!
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darthpotaterMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,259Arc User
Hey guys, adding one more incoming change to the list of things going up in the next week or two. We really like the concept of Shard, but having it be bar none your best nuke was worrying, especially given that in dungeon and group content it was often pretty hard not to get the most out of it. However we do like the control aspect it does bring and the skill required to land that when there are less foes (or in PVP where it should still merit a slot). Given that we are making the following change to reinforce that.
Control Wizard: Shard of the Endless Avalanche: This power now prones NPCs for 3.5 seconds (up from 1) and prones players for 2.25 seconds (up from 1).
Thank you all for your continued feedback.
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
Thank you, this was the change I was suggesting, really thank you for read and make shard usefull again. This prone time is affected by control bonus stat? (I suppose yes but must ask)
enorezMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 6Arc User
edited June 2014
Hey GameCrusher! first sry for my bad English
Here are some thought with those CW changes I want talk about.
1.Casting Time Actually in test shard most of those cast time changes are not so noticeable, but I feel the character control a bit more glitch. (like with high ping network link)
I'm not sure what caused that ( maybe it just because the game become laggy, sometimes I have to use safemode)
but I would say NW is an ACTION game, the experience is very important to us. so better make sure those changes wont break current experience before let them hit live.
And in the other hand, lets say in most games, cast time (and cooldown) is usually used to balance the risk & reward of skill, for example:
high damage or hard-CC skill will have a longer cast time while soft-CC and DOT skill have a shorter one.
on PvE side, that request player to decide how/when/where to use those powerful skill and avoid to be interrupted/dodged by AIs.
on PvP side, that also give other player a chance to dodge/counter, which is one of the main gameplay in a PvP match.
So its very hard to understand your changes to MM, RoE and CoI, and it do conflict with player's common sense.
Specially, for the daily cast time changes, I think arcane singularity is a long duration but weak control. so the cast time shouldnt be so long.
IMO 1 sec cast time is fine ( 0.5~0.75 would be better ), what I suggest is maybe we can let the duration a bit longer ( optional, maybe 0.5~1 sec more ) and the suck force debuff is applied per tick, at first its weak, and get stronger and stronger when debuff stacks.
( optional, the suck force will double or more when foes already be controlled, for class synergy )
Also I want to note you better not simply limit the amount it can catch, but tweak its effectiveness/damage by foes amount.
It is not only CC/AoE, but also can position foes, force them move to where we want, give the whole team combat advantage.
It could be offensive or defensive use depends different situations , that makes great synergy with other class, and thats WHY we love play this class, dont ruin it.
Now lets see the Oppressive Force & Ice Storm, the first stage of Oppressive is apply dazing effect but foes still can move, so they probably can move out of the effect range.(I would say its very hard xD) while Ice Storm is a immediately control/damage, which is impossible to dodge/interrupt when it has been actived.
so the same theory, Oppressive should have a moderate cast time 1.25sec, while Ice Storm's cast time should be the longest one 1.75~2sec.
(Optional) I would suggest do some tweak for them here:
* Make sure during the first stage effect of oppressive, foes cant attack/dodge but able to move, after explosion, apply stun instead of daze on foes.
* Ice Storm should deal more damage based on the distance, foes in center area hurt more and prone longer.
2. Sudden Storm, Steal Time and Shard Changes
I think Steal time is good for synergy. High risk and high rewards, a long duration stun that give the team some space to cast other powerful skill.
Sudden storm is ok, a pure damage power (without feat).
And shard explosion is a hybrid with damage and control. its the last unlocked encounter so I think it should be the core one of all CWs ability.
So I dont understand why buff steal time and nerf the other two, and then will give the shard more control ability.
the shard prone dont work well with other class's abilities, TR missed his DF, GWF missed his IBS, DC missed her DL.
I usually used it as a final hit or initail hit from far away, so the control buff wont affect too much in fight.
Those changes are make dungeon more long, not more fun.
What I suggest is dont touch their damage, but tweak the CD.
Im not pro in PvP,maybe can tune down the damage of shard when tab slotted but give it more times to move before it explosion, just my thought.
3. EtoS Change Ahh... roughly 50% dmg nerf from this, frankly I dont like this change
Ok I know 90->25 is a big improvement, but i think it should be 12.5~15sec, so roughly it will always be ready in the 2nd rotation.
However I prefer keep the current version, I dont think it will be triggered so frequently, and lots of things are related to it, like path feats, weapon enchantments, companions, arifacts.
Any tiny change on this may cause a big difference on CW's performance.
the EtoS is mainly related to how many foes cw fight with, it is a situation / timing challenge that one need to learn how to use it.
It barely trigger in PvP and single target situation so I dont think it is OP.
btw, ICD is hard to adapt, actually I think all those ICD feature in live better have a rework because we dont have any visual prompt to tell player "hey! your cool down is ready, now try to trigger it plz".
4. Feat Changes
Feat is a big topic, dont want expand too much here, maybe next time.
I think the main purpose of feat rework is make all path competitive.
However seems that only make the control path outstanding and ruin the other two, so you are failed lol. And I think you make too many changes at one time, the feat, the power, the passive,
its very hard to track how they affect the whole performance of this class, only make me more confuse. My feedback is please revert those feat changes, let us look at power modification first, we have 2 month to test them, right?
(and I dont think nerf will solve balance problem, it usually lead to a new problem, even worse)
For your information, In live shard my toon chose thaum path.
The reason why I think its fun than the other two path is because it request practice and skill,
all the buff duration is very very short, those are time challenge in every time u cast powers.
a well-performed player will and should gain more rewards, in my case the rewards is "deal more damage".
Higher casting times means that we do less damage, less control and we die more. In PvP people can dodge your powers and as a CW we dodge very often, because we cant stand still and take hits and when we dodge that much, its gonna be super hard to even cast a spell with the longer casting times.
Chill strike is hard to cast as it is on live. That is also why the shard on TAB is so hard for many players, because it takes ages to drop and with a GWF on your back, you cant just take a moment to stand still to cast stuff that takes ages because then you are dead.
We are making a change to the shift powers for all classes to make them more responsive and improve player survivability as long as you can react. Being able to shift out of encounters and dailies will make reacting a much more important factor in high end PVE and PVP combat.
Guardian Fighter: Block: Block can now interrupt all powers and should feel much more responsive.
Great Weapon Fighter: Sprint: Sprint can now interrupt all powers and should feel much more responsive.
Devoted Cleric: Dodge: Dodge can now interrupt all powers and should feel much more responsive.
Trickster Rogue: Shift: Shift can now interrupt all powers and should feel much more responsive.
Hunter Ranger: Shift: Shift can now interrupt all powers and should feel much more responsive.
Control Wizard: Teleport: Teleport can now interrupt all powers and should feel much more responsive.
This change can have some serious impacts on balance, so when it reaches Preview we would like players to test it as much as possible, but we believe that players should not be punished for attempting to cast powers before an area is threatened. This change should alleviate much of that, as well as improving interactions for all the shift mechanics.
We are making a change to the shift powers for all classes to make them more responsive and improve player survivability as long as you can react. Being able to shift out of encounters and dailies will make reacting a much more important factor in high end PVE and PVP combat.
Guardian Fighter: Block: Block can now interrupt all powers and should feel much more responsive.
Great Weapon Fighter: Sprint: Sprint can now interrupt all powers and should feel much more responsive.
Devoted Cleric: Dodge: Dodge can now interrupt all powers and should feel much more responsive.
Trickster Rogue: Shift: Shift can now interrupt all powers and should feel much more responsive.
Hunter Ranger: Shift: Shift can now interrupt all powers and should feel much more responsive.
Control Wizard: Teleport: Teleport can now interrupt all powers and should feel much more responsive.
This change can have some serious impacts on balance, so when it reaches Preview we would like players to test it as much as possible, but we believe that players should not be punished for attempting to cast powers before an area is threatened. This change should alleviate much of that, as well as improving interactions for all the shift mechanics.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
Does that mean abilities like Ice Rays and Shocking Execution can be dodged now?
Hey crush ive tried to get on test since the changes sinc I play a renegade spell storm but I cant test anything since my toon s stuck in walking around ..I cant dodge or anything ...I deleted my toons and reloaded them and its still stuck is this a bug?????
I agree with most of those changes on CW, because so many times in a party i felt useless with another class than CW or Gwf, by the way i played all classes in Neverwinter. I could disagree for some things like decreases of CC capability: one of the most important skill on a Cw is Arcane singularity because it permit to handle easily foes in most of endgames runs. It's, i'm sure the most used skill in the game. Why decrease the number of foes affected, instead of change something else: it could make no damages, it Will be usefull but won't change DPS of the Wizard.
As so much people said, we can forget the overpowered capacity of DPS from Cw, but not the control one. Control Wizard is the only one class Who is able to control and handle foes, plus it s his only way to survive or make his party survive. Even with a big changement on his DPS he will stay a really usefull class and will survive trough the time.
About cooldowns increase, i can't tell anything but it s really a good idea. Recovery is a percentage so, if skills are longer to recover, Recovery will surely be very efficient.
Changes about casting durations are not important for PVE part, i can say it will be different for Pvp part of course, CW is maybe the only one class which need skill to be played in PvP. But here is a challenge ! We will need to adapt our gameplay that's all.
On my point of view the changement about steal time is impressive. I mean, it s probably the Best control encounter and see damages increased by roughly 65% is awesome. Maybe not a good idea..
I prefer to see shard damage's decreasement reduced -15% on its base damages at impact and -30/45% for its explosion damages, and steal time damages stay like that or reduced too. But change the number of targets affected. I guess it will be better.
Changes about others skills are understandable. Conduit of ice will become a pilar for CWs gameplay
gameplay.
My Last sentence will speak about feats.. If you already decrease damages dealed by skills why are you planning to do same in heroics feats... Because transform an overpowered and controller Control Wizard into something like a great controller is logical, but if he deals moreoless none damages it won't be coherent with endgame content..
Here is my own opinion. And suggestions. I wrote it because i don't want to see CW become a hated class and because i have lots of friends Who told me that they wanted to leave the game if nothing is done about CWs fate.
Some of my friend or guildies are already gone...
A good new or a little indication about a future class should be appreciated by most of the players. And maybe the CW problematic will be forgotten a little haha !
Thanks you.
Elysioh, french Neverwinter gamer & fan.
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hexanna22Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 204Bounty Hunter
edited June 2014
Tested out my normal pvp only Thaum/Hybird Build and Oppressor in Dwarven Valley, as I suppose one of my biggest concerns was that I wouldn't be able to solo dailies in an efficient manner.
Thaum/Hybird pvp only build. I have all boons. I am not specc'd for open world pvp or pve and don't have the best companions, I only have 5200 power, but have 2500 crit and 2400 arp with stone. On this build only aoe feat I have is the Shard one. My stats are balanced, Int 21 Wis and CHR 17. 36 K or so HP in pve. I used P. Vorpal for these tests.
Normally I run thru the dailies while qued for PvP so Im wearing my pvp gear. I found that I had to switch to High Viz to do them so I could kill them faster than they could damage me and make me use resources. High Viz also brings my recovery up to 4500. While my damage was lower, after the switch in armor set to High Viz I had no problem doing medium HEs even with the graphic glitches going on, such as shard not showing up and me guessing to push it. I'll admit that it wasn't the struggle that I thought it would be--tho perhaps I play large groups of mobs more conservately than a person who only does PVE.
*I think that High Viz being the only gear for a year is pretty lame. I own every set, and still it's High Viz, I even still try to wear it in pvp when I am on a really solid premade of people that I play with a lot, the debuff from it is just that good. The other sets really should be made more useful, or yet, something shiny and desirable in Mod 4 would be awesome.
I then respecced to Oppressor, still wore High Viz, and DPS was lower for me, but doable. I think if I were to go Oppressor I would put more into my control stat
**Casting Times
Magic Missile just feels clumsy and like it's from a 1990's console game. It was our only At Will that worked like other classes At Wills, easy to use and Instant...Since High Viz increase my recovery to 4500, even with the diminishing returns on it, I am prob not feeling the increased cool downs as much as other people, also i carry full Fight On.
**casting Animation increase on Chill Strike/Ice Knife
This will make Chill strike virtually impossible to use against a good team in pvp...the animation already made it really hard to time as it cancels out AND people can see what you are doing. I don't know if it will warrant a slot in pvp anymore as I will use something with a faster casting animation. PVE when I did pve I rarely slotted it for this same reason.
The change to Ice Knife is clearly just for PvP as well--why? It can be dodged, and it's damage was already reduced at least once previously, but I think actually 2 times. Landing Ice Knife on good players takes some work. In fact I often opt to use Oprressive Force instead, and really only use Ice Knife in tandem with another player.
And lastly THANK YOU for the changes to ROE to debuff for team as well. The new casting on this is still awkward, but as long as everyone can beneift I figure it out.
Higher casting times means that we do less damage, less control and we die more. In PvP people can dodge your powers and as a CW we dodge very often, because we cant stand still and take hits and when we dodge that much, its gonna be super hard to even cast a spell with the longer casting times.
Chill strike is hard to cast as it is on live. That is also why the shard on TAB is so hard for many players, because it takes ages to drop and with a GWF on your back, you cant just take a moment to stand still to cast stuff that takes ages because then you are dead.
^^^ +1 ^^^
CWs are a very tough class to play in PvP; especially in domination. To gain points towards a win one needs to stand on a node. A robe wearing wizard with three teleports which are exhausted quickly the new casting time will make it almost impossible for one to successfully contest a node when the melees step in. To be viable in PvP, especially domination but still of prime importance in oPvP, a CW can’t wait up to 2 seconds for a spell to cast when dealing with melee. Most CW’s can not go toe to toe with GWFs, TRs, GFs and melee spec’d HRs – so essentially everyone else – we need the CC and the distance to even have a chance in this setting. The longer cast times and recovery *might* help balance PvE; but it is a disaster for PvP CWs. Please reconsider this.
"We cannna bring a troll to fire, but we can bring fire to the troll" - old dwarvish proverb
Not in love with the changes to cast times, it definitely changes the feel of playing when your char is stuck longer. It's particularly noticeable fighting in Major HE's when the floor keeps going red under you and you're interrupting so many attacks getting out of the way - getting off rotations is trickier. The class is just a lot less fun to play now with battles taking longer and most of the time spent teleporting around not able to get off as many attacks.
Thank you CW's for keeping the Feedback Thread by far more on topic than all of the other feedback threads!
However, let's keep the feedback specific to our PTS experience rather than patch notes based speculation.
again, PTS feedback, please. preferably in the format requested on the first page. anything not within that format and in response to other feedback looks like a discussion and may be moved to the appropriate discussion thread. this also includes opinions of the projected changes without actual testing. if it doesn't appear to be actual preview shard testing feedback, it also may be moved to the discussion threads.
thanks.
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silverquickMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited June 2014
I think you will need to remove Zooloohs post up there then.
MoF
Fanning the Flame, recast timer is a little too long. Shorten by about 1-2 seconds and it should be about right.
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silverquickMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited June 2014
.
Sudden Storm:
Either go with the 30% damage nerf and leave the recast
OR
Keep the damage and increase the recast as planned...
Pick one... but not both...
This is a Paragon defining feature of the Spellstorm. It should remain so.
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crystal892fMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 385Arc User
edited June 2014
I already posted some Feedback, here is some more (not only for the proposed changes, but in general).
Heroic Feats:
Battlewise: I don't know any CW who took this. My suggestion: Replace it with something more useful.
Lightning Teleport: I don't know any CW who took this. My suggestion: Replace it with something more useful.
Prestidigation: Percentage to low. My suggestion: Either increase the percentage (like 10%) or replace this feat.
Wizard's Wrath vs. Focused Wizardry: Why do you get more single target (*) damage for 3 feat points than AoE? I don't find this fair. My suggestion: Leave Wizard's Wrath at 6%.
Arcane Enhancement vs. Blighting Power: Same as above. Why do you get more cold damage for 3 feat points than arcane? I don't find this fair. My suggestion: Leave Arcane Enhancement at 6%.
Oppressor:
Brisk Transport: 3 seconds wear off too fast. My suggestion: Increase its duration to 5 seconds, or something.
Thaumaturge:
Tempest Magic: 2.5% nerf? What for? It's barely noticable, anyways. My suggestion: Leave it at 10%.
Renegade:
Nightmare Wizardry: Chance to low. My suggestion: 10% chance for 10 seconds.
Arcane Burst: The increased chance is nice, but I'd suggest something different. My suggestion: Not only the first hit of Scourching Burst has this 20% chance, but EVERY hit (so the DoTs itself, as well).
Phantasmal Destruction: Chance nerfed too hard. My suggestion: 50% activation chance.
Chaos Magic: I guess the whole debuffing feats were changed, because an upcoming class is supposed to be the Debuffer. Understandable, but Chaos Magic is now severly nerfed in comparison to the other capstone feats. My suggestion:
- Chaotic Nexus: You gain 10% additional Power, Armor Penetration and Critical Chance for 10 seconds.
- Chaotic Fury: You deal 10% more damage for 10 seconds.
(*) I feel "single target" is buggy now, anyways. i.e. RoE doesn't count as one (tested with Far Spell). Uhm, it's no AoE. My suggestion: Revisit it to make sure EVERY single target power gets a benefit.
Control Wizard: Eye of the Storm: ICD reduced to 25 seconds (down from 90 seconds)
Do not place ICD, put something like this: The higher your critical chance more chance you have to activate the feature class. (this gives a better distribution of points, avoiding builds 10k + power).
Comments
With a 5% chance at max points this feat has been rendered useless for me.
I have tested on live in the past with one point in glacial movement (also yielding a 5% chance) and on casting ray of frost on about 30+ dummies until frozen (180+ chill stacks), I saw the additional stack added once instead of the theoretical nine procs. Perhaps in a PVE environment where you proc eots and then have multiple dots ticking on several enemies and whatnot there would not be as much of an issue procing this feat at 5%, but in PVP it is not a chance worth banking on.
The ICD on eots will already help bring this feat down a level in terms of its proc rate. Halving the chance to 2/4/6/8/10% and making the duration 6-8secs is much more reasonable to me, especially since it is in the second level of the rene tree.
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#BringBackShard | M5 CW Bug List | My M3 PvP Gameplay
If its not supposed to be our best nuke then why is it the last spell on our list. By all logical points of view the last spell obtained should be your best, you waited 50 friggin levels to be able to point any points into it. And I want to know how you figure it was pretty hard not to get the most out of it when half the time it doesn't work right. It would pass through mobs or spawn behind the CW and get pushed the wrong way or not explode on impact.
I can agree that it needed to be toned down but not to entry level spells damage. At those levels why do we have to wait 50 levels to obtain it if it does the same amount of damage and control as all the spells we got when we started?
Oooh. Suddenly it becomes interesting again. That opens up quite a few new PvE possibilities. With the oppressor tree you can freeze enemies, summon the shard, then when the freeze wears off you can shove the shard to prone the enemies, then use the 3.5 second prone to build up the stacks of chill again. Definitely some great control possibilities opening up with that.
Thats still not enough Chris...
....think this one through here... post "adjustment" you're looking at around 200 damage per second at around a 16k Gear score with 7600 power. What do you think that becomes at a 12k-13k gs?
It becomes something barely useable at all.
That is excessively low for what is the equivalent of a 9th level D&D spell cast by an Archmage and the Capstone Power of the CW.
You just buffed the damage on Steal Time... which is a lower level spell than Shards, and after your Adjustment will have the same duration Stun and more damage. Where if you'd just leave BOTH powers as is, you get pretty much what you started with.
This is not a good idea and makes your crew look foolish.
You are going to have to reinstate the Damage on Shards if you want this to be the Capstone CW Power, there is a reason it is the best nuke BAR NONE for a CW. Its this game's equivalent of Meteor Swarm in D&D and the Capstone power you get at max level.
EDIT:
STEAL TIME: Whoever designed the CW class originally apparently knew that this was the real non damaging "control" spell, its actually based on the old D&D 9th level Spell called... TIME STOP. Which allowed the Wizard to stop time and cast multiple spells on the target.. then with time resumed ALL of those spells cast at once and took effect.... THIS is the one if you wanted to nerf that damage on, that would be appropriate..... Instead you Increased the damage on this spell when its own nature has nothing to do with Damage.
Shards of Endless Avalanche: This one is based on the old D&D spell called Meteor Swarm. This was the highest damage large area of effect spell the Magic User had. This one was always about damage from the beginning. This is the room clearing spell. NOT a non-damage control spell. It is inappropriate for a damage reduction. That's why its the capstone power of the CW.
An idea I came up with to balance out the shard to put it in line with the other encounter abilities and their damage, would be that the shard wouldn't get a damage nurf at all, but instead the damage would be reworked so that the total damage it would do to 1 person would be spread out over 5 people lets say, so you don't even have to reduce the damage, you can just give it kind of a shotgun effect, the amount of pellets is always the same (10k damage) but the pellets (damage) are spread out over however many targets are hit.
ex: You crit a 10k shard explosion after hitting 1 person
You crit a 2k shard explosion after hitting 5 people, adding up to 10k
So in essence the shard won't be hitting 10k on every person, adding up to a 50k damage encounter because thats insane, but instead it will be 2k damage per person. So you will still be effective in single person combat but on the flip side fighting a number of enemies the shard will still have adequate damage but it will be spread out and won't be as overpowered as it is now in dungeons, which is probably why the damage nurf was put into the preview in the first place
CRAZY MIKE - 14.6k PvE CW
Backbone - 16.7k PvP HR
[SIGPIC]http://i59.tinypic.com/s3hts7.png[/SIGPIC]
OK, sure I would like the increased prone but what I really liked was an idea someone suggested where damage for shard reduced by number of targets hit (similar I believe to DC Chains). This would mean that when used versus a single target, like on tab, it hit hard. It would also prevent the runaway damage we have with shard versus large packs of mobs in PvE.
The prone from the original push or from explosion?
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Thats sounds good. Makes up for the damage nerf on shard. Maybe buff the damage 15-20%.
What about doing the same for entangle, icy rays, chill strike? Buff the stun/choke since the damage got nerfed.
I still dont think that the control we have now makes up for the huge damge nerf for the CW in PvP.
Agree with you 100% Meld
Essence of Aggression
I was hitting dummies pretty ferociously, and I almost fell asleep waiting for Nightmare Wizardry or Phantasmal Destruction to proc. Renegade is already secondary tree in matters of DPS and on preview it is painful to play. I have a feeling that CWs of this Neverwinter will be spamming MoF oppressor if things do not change, and Renegade will be avoided wholesale. Why increase combat advantage, if you have little chance that feats working with it will proc? And if they do, the increase in damage will not be worth the whole fuss?
My experience today. I've tried two builds.
1. MoF Oppressor: Chilling Cloud at will, Evocation and Orb of Imposition features, Fanning the flame (on tab) CoI, Icy terrain, Steal Time.
This was one swift CW I've enjoyed playing, although neither MoF nor oppressor would be my first choice. A lot of AoE DoT skills, crit by crit (nice to watch), and Shatter procs almost every time. Nice and happy days for players who are used to such combination.
2. My current build (cultivated since Open Beta) SS Renegade: Magic Missile at will, Spell Storm and Evocation features (who cares for EotS with ICD now. Even if it lasts 4 seconds, with longer casting time it could as well last for 1 ), Sudden Storm (on tab), Steal Time, RoE, Shard.
I cast MM - slow, better focus on encounter skills.
Sudden Storm - still can crit nicely.
Steal Time - haven't noticed that buffs made it any different.
RoE - sloooooow.
Shard - damage not worth whole toil (hopefully prone will, but have to wait for implementation on preview) and it almost always lags out.
And cool down on skills... I don't want to be sarcastic, but should I really consider playing with some book to read alongside?
With this two to compare, I'd also consider making MoF Oppressor If not for the fact that I want to stay true to my SS Renegade (we've been through much together). But there you have it. My old build (with slight modification - EotS removed) is not enjoyable anymore, feels sluggish, does laughable damage, and feats like Nightmare Wizardry or Phantasmal Destruction appear so rarely that they could as well be non existent.
Many would just respec to MoF OPpressor, which I think should be prevented. It won't fix a thing.
Thank you, this was the change I was suggesting, really thank you for read and make shard usefull again. This prone time is affected by control bonus stat? (I suppose yes but must ask)
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Here are some thought with those CW changes I want talk about.
1.Casting Time
Actually in test shard most of those cast time changes are not so noticeable, but I feel the character control a bit more glitch. (like with high ping network link)
I'm not sure what caused that ( maybe it just because the game become laggy , sometimes I have to use safemode)
but I would say NW is an ACTION game, the experience is very important to us. so better make sure those changes wont break current experience before let them hit live.
And in the other hand, lets say in most games, cast time (and cooldown) is usually used to balance the risk & reward of skill, for example:
high damage or hard-CC skill will have a longer cast time while soft-CC and DOT skill have a shorter one.
on PvE side, that request player to decide how/when/where to use those powerful skill and avoid to be interrupted/dodged by AIs.
on PvP side, that also give other player a chance to dodge/counter, which is one of the main gameplay in a PvP match.
So its very hard to understand your changes to MM, RoE and CoI, and it do conflict with player's common sense.
Specially, for the daily cast time changes,
I think arcane singularity is a long duration but weak control. so the cast time shouldnt be so long.
IMO 1 sec cast time is fine ( 0.5~0.75 would be better ), what I suggest is maybe we can let the duration a bit longer ( optional, maybe 0.5~1 sec more ) and the suck force debuff is applied per tick, at first its weak, and get stronger and stronger when debuff stacks.
( optional, the suck force will double or more when foes already be controlled, for class synergy )
Also I want to note you better not simply limit the amount it can catch, but tweak its effectiveness/damage by foes amount.
It is not only CC/AoE, but also can position foes, force them move to where we want, give the whole team combat advantage.
It could be offensive or defensive use depends different situations , that makes great synergy with other class, and thats WHY we love play this class, dont ruin it.
Now lets see the Oppressive Force & Ice Storm, the first stage of Oppressive is apply dazing effect but foes still can move, so they probably can move out of the effect range.(I would say its very hard xD) while Ice Storm is a immediately control/damage, which is impossible to dodge/interrupt when it has been actived.
so the same theory, Oppressive should have a moderate cast time 1.25sec, while Ice Storm's cast time should be the longest one 1.75~2sec.
(Optional) I would suggest do some tweak for them here:
* Make sure during the first stage effect of oppressive, foes cant attack/dodge but able to move, after explosion, apply stun instead of daze on foes.
* Ice Storm should deal more damage based on the distance, foes in center area hurt more and prone longer.
2. Sudden Storm, Steal Time and Shard Changes
I think Steal time is good for synergy. High risk and high rewards, a long duration stun that give the team some space to cast other powerful skill.
Sudden storm is ok, a pure damage power (without feat).
And shard explosion is a hybrid with damage and control. its the last unlocked encounter so I think it should be the core one of all CWs ability.
So I dont understand why buff steal time and nerf the other two, and then will give the shard more control ability.
the shard prone dont work well with other class's abilities, TR missed his DF, GWF missed his IBS, DC missed her DL.
I usually used it as a final hit or initail hit from far away, so the control buff wont affect too much in fight.
Those changes are make dungeon more long, not more fun.
What I suggest is dont touch their damage, but tweak the CD.
Im not pro in PvP, maybe can tune down the damage of shard when tab slotted but give it more times to move before it explosion, just my thought.
3. EtoS Change
Ahh... roughly 50% dmg nerf from this, frankly I dont like this change
Ok I know 90->25 is a big improvement, but i think it should be 12.5~15sec, so roughly it will always be ready in the 2nd rotation.
However I prefer keep the current version, I dont think it will be triggered so frequently, and lots of things are related to it, like path feats, weapon enchantments, companions, arifacts.
Any tiny change on this may cause a big difference on CW's performance.
the EtoS is mainly related to how many foes cw fight with, it is a situation / timing challenge that one need to learn how to use it.
It barely trigger in PvP and single target situation so I dont think it is OP.
btw, ICD is hard to adapt, actually I think all those ICD feature in live better have a rework because we dont have any visual prompt to tell player "hey! your cool down is ready, now try to trigger it plz".
4. Feat Changes
Feat is a big topic, dont want expand too much here, maybe next time.
I think the main purpose of feat rework is make all path competitive.
However seems that only make the control path outstanding and ruin the other two, so you are failed lol.
And I think you make too many changes at one time, the feat, the power, the passive,
its very hard to track how they affect the whole performance of this class, only make me more confuse.
My feedback is please revert those feat changes, let us look at power modification first, we have 2 month to test them, right?
(and I dont think nerf will solve balance problem, it usually lead to a new problem, even worse)
For your information, In live shard my toon chose thaum path.
The reason why I think its fun than the other two path is because it request practice and skill,
all the buff duration is very very short, those are time challenge in every time u cast powers.
a well-performed player will and should gain more rewards, in my case the rewards is "deal more damage".
Thx for reading my comments
Chill strike is hard to cast as it is on live. That is also why the shard on TAB is so hard for many players, because it takes ages to drop and with a GWF on your back, you cant just take a moment to stand still to cast stuff that takes ages because then you are dead.
Guardian Fighter: Block: Block can now interrupt all powers and should feel much more responsive.
Great Weapon Fighter: Sprint: Sprint can now interrupt all powers and should feel much more responsive.
Devoted Cleric: Dodge: Dodge can now interrupt all powers and should feel much more responsive.
Trickster Rogue: Shift: Shift can now interrupt all powers and should feel much more responsive.
Hunter Ranger: Shift: Shift can now interrupt all powers and should feel much more responsive.
Control Wizard: Teleport: Teleport can now interrupt all powers and should feel much more responsive.
This change can have some serious impacts on balance, so when it reaches Preview we would like players to test it as much as possible, but we believe that players should not be punished for attempting to cast powers before an area is threatened. This change should alleviate much of that, as well as improving interactions for all the shift mechanics.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
Does that mean abilities like Ice Rays and Shocking Execution can be dodged now?
CRAZY MIKE - 14.6k PvE CW
Backbone - 16.7k PvP HR
[SIGPIC]http://i59.tinypic.com/s3hts7.png[/SIGPIC]
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As so much people said, we can forget the overpowered capacity of DPS from Cw, but not the control one. Control Wizard is the only one class Who is able to control and handle foes, plus it s his only way to survive or make his party survive. Even with a big changement on his DPS he will stay a really usefull class and will survive trough the time.
About cooldowns increase, i can't tell anything but it s really a good idea. Recovery is a percentage so, if skills are longer to recover, Recovery will surely be very efficient.
Changes about casting durations are not important for PVE part, i can say it will be different for Pvp part of course, CW is maybe the only one class which need skill to be played in PvP. But here is a challenge ! We will need to adapt our gameplay that's all.
On my point of view the changement about steal time is impressive. I mean, it s probably the Best control encounter and see damages increased by roughly 65% is awesome. Maybe not a good idea..
I prefer to see shard damage's decreasement reduced -15% on its base damages at impact and -30/45% for its explosion damages, and steal time damages stay like that or reduced too. But change the number of targets affected. I guess it will be better.
Changes about others skills are understandable. Conduit of ice will become a pilar for CWs gameplay
gameplay.
My Last sentence will speak about feats.. If you already decrease damages dealed by skills why are you planning to do same in heroics feats... Because transform an overpowered and controller Control Wizard into something like a great controller is logical, but if he deals moreoless none damages it won't be coherent with endgame content..
Here is my own opinion. And suggestions. I wrote it because i don't want to see CW become a hated class and because i have lots of friends Who told me that they wanted to leave the game if nothing is done about CWs fate.
Some of my friend or guildies are already gone...
A good new or a little indication about a future class should be appreciated by most of the players. And maybe the CW problematic will be forgotten a little haha !
Thanks you.
Elysioh, french Neverwinter gamer & fan.
Thaum/Hybird pvp only build. I have all boons. I am not specc'd for open world pvp or pve and don't have the best companions, I only have 5200 power, but have 2500 crit and 2400 arp with stone. On this build only aoe feat I have is the Shard one. My stats are balanced, Int 21 Wis and CHR 17. 36 K or so HP in pve. I used P. Vorpal for these tests.
Normally I run thru the dailies while qued for PvP so Im wearing my pvp gear. I found that I had to switch to High Viz to do them so I could kill them faster than they could damage me and make me use resources. High Viz also brings my recovery up to 4500. While my damage was lower, after the switch in armor set to High Viz I had no problem doing medium HEs even with the graphic glitches going on, such as shard not showing up and me guessing to push it. I'll admit that it wasn't the struggle that I thought it would be--tho perhaps I play large groups of mobs more conservately than a person who only does PVE.
*I think that High Viz being the only gear for a year is pretty lame. I own every set, and still it's High Viz, I even still try to wear it in pvp when I am on a really solid premade of people that I play with a lot, the debuff from it is just that good. The other sets really should be made more useful, or yet, something shiny and desirable in Mod 4 would be awesome.
I then respecced to Oppressor, still wore High Viz, and DPS was lower for me, but doable. I think if I were to go Oppressor I would put more into my control stat
**Casting Times
Magic Missile just feels clumsy and like it's from a 1990's console game. It was our only At Will that worked like other classes At Wills, easy to use and Instant...Since High Viz increase my recovery to 4500, even with the diminishing returns on it, I am prob not feeling the increased cool downs as much as other people, also i carry full Fight On.
**casting Animation increase on Chill Strike/Ice Knife
This will make Chill strike virtually impossible to use against a good team in pvp...the animation already made it really hard to time as it cancels out AND people can see what you are doing. I don't know if it will warrant a slot in pvp anymore as I will use something with a faster casting animation. PVE when I did pve I rarely slotted it for this same reason.
The change to Ice Knife is clearly just for PvP as well--why? It can be dodged, and it's damage was already reduced at least once previously, but I think actually 2 times. Landing Ice Knife on good players takes some work. In fact I often opt to use Oprressive Force instead, and really only use Ice Knife in tandem with another player.
And lastly THANK YOU for the changes to ROE to debuff for team as well. The new casting on this is still awkward, but as long as everyone can beneift I figure it out.
No, it means you can stop any attack you are casting to a certain point: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=8257591&viewfull=1#post8257591
However, let's keep the feedback specific to our PTS experience rather than patch notes based speculation.
^^^ +1 ^^^
CWs are a very tough class to play in PvP; especially in domination. To gain points towards a win one needs to stand on a node. A robe wearing wizard with three teleports which are exhausted quickly the new casting time will make it almost impossible for one to successfully contest a node when the melees step in. To be viable in PvP, especially domination but still of prime importance in oPvP, a CW can’t wait up to 2 seconds for a spell to cast when dealing with melee. Most CW’s can not go toe to toe with GWFs, TRs, GFs and melee spec’d HRs – so essentially everyone else – we need the CC and the distance to even have a chance in this setting. The longer cast times and recovery *might* help balance PvE; but it is a disaster for PvP CWs. Please reconsider this.
again, PTS feedback, please. preferably in the format requested on the first page. anything not within that format and in response to other feedback looks like a discussion and may be moved to the appropriate discussion thread. this also includes opinions of the projected changes without actual testing. if it doesn't appear to be actual preview shard testing feedback, it also may be moved to the discussion threads.
thanks.
MoF
Fanning the Flame, recast timer is a little too long. Shorten by about 1-2 seconds and it should be about right.
Sudden Storm:
Either go with the 30% damage nerf and leave the recast
OR
Keep the damage and increase the recast as planned...
Pick one... but not both...
This is a Paragon defining feature of the Spellstorm. It should remain so.
Heroic Feats:
Battlewise: I don't know any CW who took this. My suggestion: Replace it with something more useful.
Lightning Teleport: I don't know any CW who took this. My suggestion: Replace it with something more useful.
Prestidigation: Percentage to low. My suggestion: Either increase the percentage (like 10%) or replace this feat.
Wizard's Wrath vs. Focused Wizardry: Why do you get more single target (*) damage for 3 feat points than AoE? I don't find this fair. My suggestion: Leave Wizard's Wrath at 6%.
Arcane Enhancement vs. Blighting Power: Same as above. Why do you get more cold damage for 3 feat points than arcane? I don't find this fair. My suggestion: Leave Arcane Enhancement at 6%.
Oppressor:
Brisk Transport: 3 seconds wear off too fast. My suggestion: Increase its duration to 5 seconds, or something.
Thaumaturge:
Tempest Magic: 2.5% nerf? What for? It's barely noticable, anyways. My suggestion: Leave it at 10%.
Renegade:
Nightmare Wizardry: Chance to low. My suggestion: 10% chance for 10 seconds.
Arcane Burst: The increased chance is nice, but I'd suggest something different. My suggestion: Not only the first hit of Scourching Burst has this 20% chance, but EVERY hit (so the DoTs itself, as well).
Phantasmal Destruction: Chance nerfed too hard. My suggestion: 50% activation chance.
Chaos Magic: I guess the whole debuffing feats were changed, because an upcoming class is supposed to be the Debuffer. Understandable, but Chaos Magic is now severly nerfed in comparison to the other capstone feats. My suggestion:
- Chaotic Nexus: You gain 10% additional Power, Armor Penetration and Critical Chance for 10 seconds.
- Chaotic Fury: You deal 10% more damage for 10 seconds.
(*) I feel "single target" is buggy now, anyways. i.e. RoE doesn't count as one (tested with Far Spell). Uhm, it's no AoE. My suggestion: Revisit it to make sure EVERY single target power gets a benefit.
Do not place ICD, put something like this: The higher your critical chance more chance you have to activate the feature class. (this gives a better distribution of points, avoiding builds 10k + power).