Adjustment:
Control Wizard: Eye of the Storm: ICD reduced to 25 seconds (Down from 90 seconds)
Control Wizard: Ray of Enfeeblement: Allies now benefit from this effect again, but multiple Wizards cannot stack this effect for increased potency.
Just for these 2 thank you so much , definitely a move in the right direction for spellstorm , I am sure many others will also thank you , these changes show all the people who have thrown fits and threatened to quit that if constructive feedback is given then you will listen , the 90 second icd was just complete overkill , I can't wait to get back on and test when these changes hit preview , as for casting times I am still not thrilled by the increases but hopefully continued feedback may get some of the increases at least reduced a little * fingers crossed*.
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nwnghostMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2014
I feel changing the ICD from Eye of the Storm to 25 is a bit too low, given that it now lasts longer than before, unless the longer duration is also reverted. I would advocate 35-40 seconds.
Also, while I am still against the Steal Time buff, I could come to agree with it, if every tick on every enemy didn't count as an additional "new Encounter" for purposes of triggering Items, Feats and Companion Actives, which is what makes this Power a must-have on every Control Wizard's bar at present.
Most of the spells that had adjustments to casting time were substantially better powers than any other options for the same slot (Magic Missile was a prime offender here, being massively better than every other at will option in almost every possible situation).
But do you realize that people spent more than a year physically practicing rotations in all kinds of different situations? This is not a pure strategy game or something like Neverwinter Nights, where you take turns attacking. Do you understand the damage you're doing by changing casting times? You can change the damage, but not the very essence of what keeps people attached to their characters. I spent 30 minutes on preview. I wanted to run some ACT tests and see how the new feat changes work out. I couldn't do it. I can't play a CW like this. Not after over a year of practice. I already said everything here. You can change the damage, effects, destroy the class completely if you like, but you can't change the casting times. This is too much.
Second, I wanted to take a moment to talk about Casting Time, Cooldowns, and why powers had a lot of adjustments in this area. We sat down and looked at the damage potential of all the Control Wizard powers and looked at the damage potential of the power versus the total time spent actively casting it (Damage per cast time or DPCT). This functions like an opportunity cost where you are getting X damage for Y seconds spent casting. Most of the spells that had adjustments to casting time were substantially better powers than any other options for the same slot (Magic Missile was a prime offender here, being massively better than every other at will option in almost every possible situation). We also looked at the potential DPS of each power (which is a combination of Cast Time + Recharge Time versus the damage potential of the power) and adjusted various cooldowns to get more of these to be competitive. This meant buffs in a handful of cases, but largely it meant making them slightly longer to make more options competitive. We had several options for adjusting these, but instead of just making all of your powers deal less or more damage we wanted to try and preserve more of the damage potential of individual hits (because numbers feel really good) and slow down the rate at which those hits can be applied. While most powers needed only minor changes in this area, several were FAR stronger than any other option if they were used in a good situation.
Thank you all for your continued feedback.
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
I'd like to take this opportunity, in the light of your explanation, to say that I think you DEVs made an excellent choice over there. By adjusting CDs instead of damage, you actually opened a lot of space for the Recovery stat, without necessarily diminishing the usefulness of other stats like ArP, Power or Crit. Although it may sound obvious, people sometimes miss to realise that the bigger the number, the bigger it's proportions. What I mean by this is that 25% of 20 seconds is 5 seconds, while 25% of 10 seconds is 2.5 seconds. So, having longer CDs means that any small percentage obtained by Recovery will be that much more valuable. [note that I am talking about CDs and not Casting Times]
On a related note, I think that it's VERY IMPORTANT that Feats have their durations tweaked up proportionally to the general CD increase of the powers. Otherwise, if you manage to get a certain Feat to proc only on your third Encounter, you won't have anything to do with it because the CDs are so big.
Again, just my thoughts, I hope you give them something to work with.
But do you realize that people spent more than a year physically practicing rotations in all kinds of different situations? This is not a pure strategy game or something like Neverwinter Nights, where you take turns attacking. Do you understand the damage you're doing by changing casting times? You can change the damage, but not the very essence of what keeps people attached to their characters. I spent 30 minutes on preview. I wanted to run some ACT tests and see how the new feat changes work out. I couldn't do it. I can't play a CW like this. Not after over a year of practice. I already said everything here. You can change the damage, effects, etc., but you can't change the casting times. This is too much.
I agree. The casting-time makes the class less enjoyable to play and we lose control that we very much need now after the nerfs.
Also I dont see how any other tree than oppressor will be played now since shatter is the only extra control we have. Everyone is gonna run the same build now just for the control that shatter gives.
I rather see you nerf damage then change the power mechanics like this.
Why was Singularities target cap reduced to 8 when Oppressive Force was untouched?
Singularity already wasn't being used by the high end CW due to it's interference with Shard and it's overall low damage.
Just curious, because I'd have thought Oppressive Force was long overdue for a nerf yet it comes away with a mere 9% damage reduction while still being able to hit eight billion add's if there are eight billion add's.
That's an issue for me.
It's potential damage is far, far out of line given that one fact. Singularity already couldn't compete even if it tried, and there was never really an alternate daily choice after you learned how to use OF.
Or is just this a sly method of making us use Fiery Immolation now that it's better than Singularity in every imaginable way?
By comparison, Icy Terrain is also uncapped on targets but it's individual hits are exceedingly small. That would be how I would imagine a reworked Oppressive Force. The infinite daze is helpful, but the AoE debuff nuke is out of line.
Arcane Singularity: Activation time increased to 2 seconds (up from 1 second).
Arcane Singularity: Now can affect up to 8 targets (down from 15).
Oppressive Force: This power has had its overall damage reduced by roughly 9%.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
Hey guys! We have read through the feedback and wanted to share some of the changes we are making in the next week or two. There isn't enough data from dungeons yet to make any big changes but we wanted to take some time to share these and also talk about increased casting times and why powers got these changes.
First up, the changes we are making.
Bug fixes:
Twisting Immolation: Now correctly Dazes targets when they land.
Elemental Empowerment: Creeping Frost and Warped Magics should now properly trigger and apply to foes.
Assailing Force: Assailing Force will now correctly trigger more than once. Additionally, the tooltip has been updated to be more transparent about activation chance and uptime.
Adjustment:
Control Wizard: Eye of the Storm: ICD reduced to 25 seconds (Down from 90 seconds)
Control Wizard: Ray of Enfeeblement: Allies now benefit from this effect again, but multiple Wizards cannot stack this effect for increased potency.
Control Wizard: Chill: While a foe is affected by Shattered or the Stun from Shatter Strike they cannot be afflicted with stacks of Chill.
Control Wizard: Shatter Strike: Will no longer improperly hold players for 5 seconds or be immune to CC break effects.
*Standing applause*
These changes are very much appreciated. I will test them out and give more feedback. I suspect 25 seconds may be a tad too fast of a recharge. But I'll test it and give more informed feedback.
Most of the spells that had adjustments to casting time were substantially better powers than any other options for the same slot (Magic Missile was a prime offender here, being massively better than every other at will option in almost every possible situation). We also looked at the potential DPS of each power (which is a combination of Cast Time + Recharge Time versus the damage potential of the power) and adjusted various cooldowns to get more of these to be competitive.
Hmmm. That's interesting. My own testing found that Chilling Cloud was the highest dps at-will in situations of 3 or more enemies and Storm Pillar the highest for single targets. Magic Missile was good, but not great. Honestly, I found Magic Missile hurt my dps. Agree to disagree on that one.
For the new damage reductions I believe they were enacted because of the immense amount of damage that can be stacked on multiple targets. So testing on the preview shard versus 5 targets all being shard slammed the damage seemed much more in line with my other encounter abilities, but testing it on single targets the damage is so weak it's almost worse then using a magic missile burst. Something that had came to mind was instead of reducing the damage by a set amount, what if the damage would reduce by the number of people being hit? That way it would still be a good encounter to use in single combat, aswell as still being effective versus multiple foes, but just having the damage spread out in a way. Like throwing a bunch of rocks at a one person opposed to five people, the more people hit by the rocks the less amount of rocks will hit each individual person. In Neverwinter terms, the more enemies hit the less damage each one takes. Like at 5-15% damage reduction per person, you won't be getting a 200k+ total damage hit from one encounter hitting all the mobs, but then you also can retain a practical damage output on a single person.
Something that had came to mind was instead of reducing the damage by a set amount, what if the damage would reduce by the number of people being hit? That way it would still be a good encounter to use in single combat,
100% agree. Shard is a great encounter in PvP with its damage and prone capability. It would be nice to continue with it in Mod 4. Having damage reduce by number hit would also achieve the goal of limiting crazy AoE damage.
Since you're actively making changes I'll give my feedback in chunks rather than all at once as I originally had planned. These observations and suggestions are based on several hours of parsing data on the preview server including dungeon runs. These are not "I'm mad and I'm just going to vent" observations.
I run a very high DPS Thaumaturge build, so likely I’m the type of build that you’re trying to bring back under control. I mainly do PvE so that’s how most of my feedback will be oriented. However, since I have done fairly thorough testing of all powers I will throw in a few comments about how I see PvP abilities being affected as well. I’ll try to keep my feedback constructive.
General
• Armor Penetration should now correctly work on all powers.
Definitely needed. This should be seen as a 20%-ish damage buff to all of the bugged abilities most of which were single-target. That is where CW’s were pretty underpowered, so it’s appreciated.
Powers
• Magic Missile: The first two strikes can be chained together about 40% slower. The third strike of Magic Missile now takes 1.4 seconds to fire (up from 1.2). Overall, it feels a little clunky. Not a major change, though.
Chilling Cloud: The final strike of Chilling Cloud now takes 1 second to fire (down from 1.2).Not a major change. No comment.
Scorching Burst: This power now benefits more from being charged. The bonus from charging has been improved by roughly 50%. No comment
Chill Strike: This power now takes 1.2 seconds to fire (up from 1 second).
Chill Strike: This power has had its recharge time increased to 15 seconds (up from 13 seconds).
This spell underperforms compared to Conduit of Ice, Steal Time, Shard of Avalanche, and Sudden Storm so I never used it after the first time I parsed data. It was already clunky in boss fights since its animation can’t be cancelled. During boss fights if you cast Chill Strike an instant before the ground turns red beneath you there is no hope of dodging the attack. I recommend making it so you can dodge out of the animation like most other spells. That would make it a much more usable spell for me.
Conduit of Ice: This power now takes 1.5 seconds to fire (up from .98 seconds).
Conduit of Ice: This power has had its recharge time reduced to 13 seconds (down from 18 seconds).
Conduit of Ice: This power has had its damage reduced by roughly 33%.
Hard to judge these changes. On the plus side, armor penetration is fixed and cooldown is significantly lowered. On the minus side, damage is reduced, casting time increased, and there’s no longer a 15% enemy debuff from the Thaumaturge tree. Overall I think this spell is worse off, but after testing it is still good enough to earn a spot in the spell rotation and does 12-18% of my damage. I think it’s a reasonable adjustment.
Entangling Force: This power's damage over time component now ticks every .5 seconds (down from every .65 seconds).
Entangling Force: This power now takes 1.2 seconds to fire (up from 1 second).
Entangling Force: This power has had its total base damage reduced by about 10% overall.
Inconsequential to PvE as it was basically useless to begin with and remains so. Choking one enemy in a mob of 20 doesn’t help and all dangerous enemies are immune.
Icy Terrain: This power now ticks every 1 second (down from every 1.3 seconds).
Bug: The animation can cause a large amount of slowdown. All of the freezing and shattering animations can cause the game animations to lag behind the actual code. After using this spell you can be hit by enemy attacks before they happen. With the Oppressor tree changes this is now a very viable spell both for damage and control. It's nice to see a control buff. That is initially how I intended to play my character until I realized how much more effective uber-damage builds were.
Sudden Storm: This power has had its recharge time increased to 14 seconds (up from 10 seconds).
Sudden Storm: This power has had its base damage reduced by roughly 33.
Bug: Sudden Storm has a 0% chance to proc Storm Spell. Storm Spell’s description says it has a 10% chance on all attacks. These adjustments are fair. Sudden Storm was the highest damaging encounter in my average dungeon run. This brings it back in line without killing it off completely. It still should be our highest damaging encounter since its AoE is short range and narrow. It takes skill to use it. Don’t take it any lower. People who can use it effectively should be rewarded for doing so.
Ray of Enfeeblement: This power now takes 1.5 seconds to fire (up from .9 seconds).
Ray of Enfeeblement: This power has had its recharge time increased to 18 seconds (up from 14).
Ray of Enfeeblement: Allies no longer benefit from this debuff.
EDIT: Control Wizard: Ray of Enfeeblement: Allies now benefit from this effect again, but multiple Wizards cannot stack this effect for increased potency.
Bug: Casting RoE a second time cancels the damage of the first cast.
The last adjustment is a perfect compromise. RoE has no use without the group debuff. But making it not stack will discourage having multiple CW's in the party on boss fights.
Steal Time: This power has had its damage increased by roughly 65%.
Steal Time: This power has had its recharge time reduced to 18 seconds (down from 22 seconds).
This buff was needed to offset the loss of Eye of the Storm since that was the main reason to use Steal Time. I wonder if this is overdoing it, however. Steal Time was already good for ~10% of my damage in a normal run. Adding 65% to that, reducing the cooldown, and nerfing everything else has made this the highest damaging spell a CW has. It now does more damage in a dungeon run than any other spell. The fact that it gives great control and applies all three high vizier debuff stacks at once makes this quite overpowered. I would recommend scaling back the damage in exchange for removing some of the Shard of Avalanche and Sudden Storm nerfs.
Shard of the Endless Avalanche: This power has had its base impact damage reduced by roughly 33%.
Shard of the Endless Avalanche: This power has had its explosion damage reduced by roughly 60%.
The 33% reduction is fine (though that wasn’t a big contributor to damage in the first place), but the 60 % reduction seems much too heavy-handed. Its damage was out of line, but dividing the damage by 2.5 is extreme in the other direction for several reasons: 1) this is the final encounter spell awarded to a CW. It’s the capstone. It should be good. 2) It is a pain in the neck to summon. Use of Shard requires two long, separate casting animations – one to summon it, then one to push. That is a steep penalty to using the ability already. 3) If at any time you are interrupted after summoning the shard it disappears; the spell is lost entirely and a full cooldown must pass before it can be used again. 2) and 3) make the spell brutal to try and use when being chased down by a mob. Even in low T2 dungeons like Pirate King it can very aggravating to try and get shard summoned in the heat of battle. Lowering the damage to the point that it is in the same damage range as Conduit of Ice and Icy Terrain makes it still somewhat useful because of the prone, but a terribly disappointing final ability. It’s one may will choose to do without.
I'll test out the rest of the changes and the new feat trees in the coming days. Now that some of the feats have been fixed I can better comparison. However, just so you are aware the highest damaging builds I have found are all in the oppressor tree.
Bug : Unresponsive toon after spell cast and Arcane Singularity glitch Well,after doing some more testing i can definitely say that after the casting of some spells,especially Fanning the Flame,the players avatar becomes unresponsive to movement commands, for a second or two to deadly effect. It is the single most annoying thing i'm experiencing and it is my belief that casting times change had something to do with it.However no matter the reason it needs to be looked at.Also for some reason i'm occasionally seeing Arcane Singularity effects,where there shouldn't be any. This graphics bug appears in Ice wind pass. Sometimes it's only one black hole in mid air ,sometimes more,but they all disappear the moment i approach them.
It's BUGS bunny i tell you.
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adernathMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
But do you realize that people spent more than a year physically practicing rotations in all kinds of different situations?
I totally agree with this statement. The point is that it takes practice to get to a strong DPS rotation. If you do the current skirmish you see maybe one out of six CWs at level 60 who actually know how do high damage. Most CWs use wrong spells and rotations and do a mediocre damage already today.
Suggestions to improve NW:
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
Casting time is pretty nightmarish now. I'm used to mixing spells: First RoE (on tab) - first Icy Rays - second RoE - second Icy Rays, EF, etc. etc. It is already hard with Icy Rays buggy, but now, with slower RoE and EF it feels like hitting one button bagillions of times, until wanted effect finally takes place. Add slow MM to that, and it feels like swimming in a jelly basin.
Shard: consider, that this power has the longest casting time and is not very comfortable to use. Before EF action points gain nerf and Shield burst nerf hardly any CW used it, just because of that. Now, that it's damage is so low, shard might be gone from PvE again.
Also, too much Icy terrain, Shatter and Frozen causes graphics to lag incredibly.
Btw. we've noticed with collogue that on preview (but also on live server) there is a discrepancy between tool tip on icy rays displayed on Power Tree (where it shows bigger damage), and the slotted one (which shows lower damage).
Bids he then the spruces to singer him an anthems!
And the Woodsie Lord binders them fleshes to stone!
It's going in the right direction. These feedback threads are complete gold, and to know that the developers do listen is great.
My biggest concern is still the Renegade tree, with NW being reduced from 20% -> 5%. The proc on the ability is so limited now, that it makes the tree considerably weaker. In consideration, I'd think that 10% chance would be a better reduction, and would still keep the Renegade tree relevant in both PvP and PvE.
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dshogunMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 6Arc User
edited June 2014
Aight, gotta give my opinion now. As a CN runner who does 10+ runs a day, i have to agree CW needs to be tuned damage wise. Our usual group setup is 4x cw and 1x dc. My average damage at the end of the run ( 25-30 minutes ) is 33 million +/- 2 and on good runs around 40 million. Now let me get some things straight. People want to be time/reward efficient and as in any other game, they build the most efficient team out of damage, control and survivalability.
The efficiency comes because most, if not all dungeons are utterly boring. If it wasn't for the AD, i would not run a single dungeon in a week.
Now to the CW. While i agree that balancing is a never ending act, you can't just go all out and cut almost everything what was good by ~50%.
Eye of the storm : While i agree with a internal cooldown, now proposed to be 25 seconds, i still disagree with the amount. I think 10 seconds is in line, revert the steal time changes to 22 seconds cool down and leave eye of the storm with a 10 second internal cool down which procs for 2 seconds.
Shard : Overkill. Straight up overkill. I agree that the explosion was some serious business, which goes almost to 160k in some rare situations, but nerfing the explosion by roughly 65% is way too much. 40% would be something i could agree on.
These are the only skills which i do not agree on. I won't go into detail on feats because those need more testing. Although i feel like renegade got hit so hard, that you would be better off deleting the path and tell people CW always had only 2.
First conclusion : Nerf the high vizier set bonus. Nerf it down to 150 per stack. This will indirectly nerf steal time too but its needed in order to balance out the other skills i mentioned to be in a more acceptable range to current state.
Oh and btw. : Make the other sets viable compared to high vizier. Give them some love, and not some stupid 45 seconds internal cool downs. No one likes internal cooldowns, this is one of the worst mechanic in any game.
And if you don't have any idea, make the shard, sudden storm or whatever you feel like smaller. Make it so people have to actually think instead of mashing the same buttons over and over. Skill/reward is something that motivates. I see alot of CW's who have way better gear but do way less damage simply because they can't play or don't understand mechanics. I hope you get what i mean by that.
Some people ( including me ) feel threatened that skill will be a non factor anymore.
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aulduronMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,351Arc User
edited June 2014
At least half my shards were invisible, as was I while on a horse.
]My average crit on shard was around 20K. The biggest I saw today was 7K. I may as well throw magic missiles. Groups of IWD trash mobs that I used to 1 shot with shards were sometimes killing me because I was getting interrupted very often and spent more time waiting for cooldowns. If cast times and cooldowns stay the same, can we at least get more stamina for extra dodges?
I rarely saw anything proc. EotS once in awhile. Chaos magic a couple of times, and never noticed Nightmare Wizardry. Maybe I just didn't notice them, because I was too busy trying to stay alive.
While Icy Terrain sounds like it's better now, many people can't group with its users, because it's too laggy. Pleas don't make all CWs rely on this power. In fact, all CWs should not have to use the same build and powers, and it looks like that's what's happening now. . I chose the renegade path because it seemed to take more skill and because that acquired skill paid off. I've spent a year practicing it. Now I feel as though you don't want us to be renegades.
The issue with control powers where cc duration was being inaccurately reduced by deflection was mentioned as having a fix in the works, but I didn't see anything in the notes about it (referring to the thread about repel). Shard moving through people with no effect or getting stuck in random places should also be fixed. I have also noticed that when shard slam is deflected by an enemy, the enemy always deflects the explosion as well even if still prone.
Feedback:
Survivability
My opinion stems entirely from a PVP perspective, where in terms of class changes my view was that CWs would benefit from a small tweak to survivability via their dodge (teleport) mechanics, but are otherwise on a level playing field on live in terms of damage output and cc if the deflect and armor pen bugs are fixed.
When I think of teleporting, I think of someone initially in one spot who then without much indication appears in another place, again with no indication of which direction they were heading. Since stamina is required, it would also make sense that using more stamina could teleport you further, and having our dodges be chain-able or less clunky when used in succession (similar to HR) could be an application of that.
Even with the changes to Threatening Rush having three charges on live, at base stats CWs only have 3 dodges that do not put them outside of the rush range. Adjusting the teleport distance such that it extends a mere few steps outside of this range would be a small tweak with a large boost to survivability. Additionally, in the case that a GWF is out of charges and a CW dodges away to create space, this small window of opportunity will be ruined because the GWF will now be able to sprint to them with cc immunity!
I think a small change to the dodge animation/mechanic, whether in making them chain-able to increase distance by double tapping shift or triple tapping movement keys, increasing the distance of teleport in general, removing the animation that allows players to see exactly where you are teleporting to, etc. would help equal the survivability playing field. Another consideration would being giving CWs more AC from gear.
Casting Times
In terms of the reasoning behind the increased cool down and casting time on encounters, being that to establish equilibrium between the amount of time it takes to cast an encounter relative to its damage, I would wholeheartedly choose having a damage reduction to establish equilibrium with the current casting times on live as opposed to how it is on the preview.
As others have mentioned, a lot of the satisfaction in playing the CW class, whether in PVP or PVE, is in practicing and perfecting your encounter rotation to be seamless and smooth. While increased cool downs can be adapted to by adding recovery or otherwise reallocating stats, and do not affect the ability to chain encounters but rather how often you are able to chain them, a purely mechanic change to how long you are rooted to cast an encounter simply ruins the currently smooth combat.
With my rotation on live, I am able to jump between encounters to maintain space between myself and the opponent, but with the increased casting times I have to dodge between encounters to maintain the same space, leaving me essentially helpless at the end.
Feat Changes
Due to the utility added to the Oppressor tree, I think that CWs will essentially be forced into this path for PVP since Thaum and Rene have been comparatively nerfed. As a user of all three trees in my build, I like being able to sacrifice a tree capstone in favor of incorporating elements that match my play style from all trees. It seems as though each capstone has been reworked to receive a net gain, while several preceding feats in each tree have been nerfed, essentially forcing you to pick a capstone since the opportunity cost of using a few feats in each tree is no longer worth it. In my opinion, really only the capstones needed to be made more appealing -- if I'm putting five points into a feat I expect a decent gain from it and if I'm putting twenty points into an entire tree to receive a capstone I also expect a largely applicable benefit as well (ie. something not dependent upon the power being used), which I think was the only thing lacking on live.
Adjustment:
Control Wizard: Eye of the Storm: ICD reduced to 25 seconds (Down from 90 seconds)
Control Wizard: Ray of Enfeeblement: Allies now benefit from this effect again, but multiple Wizards cannot stack this effect for increased potency.
Control Wizard: Chill: While a foe is affected by Shattered or the Stun from Shatter Strike they cannot be afflicted with stacks of Chill.
Control Wizard: Shatter Strike: Will no longer improperly hold players for 5 seconds or be immune to CC break effects.
Thank you all for your continued feedback.
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
Ok... Now we can START to talk...
Shards of Endless Avalanch.
Just so you know what we're looking at here... I'll directly post screenshots of my Character, and the spell itself.
This is the FULL character setup (MoF), wearing your FULL Black Ice Armor you just made in the new expansion, and a 7600 power.
This is a high geared character with a 16K plus Gear score, using Greater Vorpal.
You can easily verify this on your own servers and even take my character for a test run I'm sure with the access you have.
THIS.... is direct from YOUR tooltip in game for the base damage of Shards of Endless Avalanch.
ON LIVE SERVER....
I can tell you right now, the Shardplosion on this character hits around 7000 damage non crit with Transcended Master Feated for the 15% damage increase WITH a 7600 power. The recast on this when I had a 3500 Recovery prior to the Black Ice Gear and the SAME power is around 12 seconds, according to the number that ticks down from the CD timer on the Power Itself.
That means, this spell which IS (I might add) the Keystone Power of the CW class, its HIGHEST level spell, that is supposed to mirror the 18th level Magic User top damaging spell called "Meteor Swarm". (Which its a surprisingly good representation of by the way).....
.... does approximately... 580 damage per second... Per target... as base damage with those feats and high recovery score.
It Crits about an average of 20,000 damage (Give or Take) for me with a greater Vorpal.... and your newly offered Corrupt Black Ice ORB... which CAN make it about 1600 damage per second... and I am an MoF WHO DOES NOT HAVE... Eye of the Storm.
This is EXTREMELY low in terms of dps ALREADY. AND much lower than the Striker Classes Capstone DPS feats. Its even lower than some of OUR AT WILL powers, and that's WITH a 16k+ Gear score and 7600 power.
Your current Nerf will reduce this to approximately 203 damage per second per target... that is SO low its questionable as to whether that spell will ever be used again, its actually less DPS than some of the Newbie First level Wizard spells with your current "Adjustment".... . This is from an MoF perspective who does not have Eye of the Storm to guarantee Crits with it.
DID you really think this one through?
Remember this is the Capstone top of the line uber power of the ENTIRE CW class... you're about to nerf to a DPS so low its going to be highly questionable as to even whether its even usable... considering not only does it have a good 2 second casting time, but ALSO has to be pushed at targets on top of that... AND can completely wiff an entire group of mobs leaving you with ZERO damage entirely...
First of all... I am having difficulty seeing why this needs to be Nerfed at ALL... BUT even if you did... 65% reduction from Shardplosion? What were you thinking?
And THATS with a 16k+ GEARED Character
Let alone a 12k-13k Standard Mage who has maybe a whopping power score of 4000-5000.
Did you guys think about this? Or did you just wild guess here... This isn't even something difficult to check. You couldn't possibly have overlooked this.
So what is the point of taking the Top level Highest level CW spell, and reducing the damage per second that low?
Did you assume that ONLY uber geared SPELLSTORMS with Eye of the Storm use this one?
Because the ONLY thing that makes the damage on that spell so high is ENORMOUS AMOUNTS of MOBS.... the more mobs you throw at the party... the higher the damage of ANY CW goes.
Bringing us to the second point...
Your Real problem here isn't and never was CW damage. You want to change that don't throw so many mass mobs at an AoE class. They are going to do a whopload of damage over the other classes... why?
Remember all those other classes that are complaining about being excluded? They're all Striker classes (ie Single Target). There's no way in hell they can participate in those shoes and NEVER will be able to. You made the dungeons so MASS MOB filled, you excuded the other classes from participation.
And then you called the CW "out of line" or "overpowered" despite the ACTUAL DPS being EXTREMELY low in the first place.
I think you need to SERIOULY rethink ALL of these changes... and understand where the complaints are ACTUALLY coming from on the other classes.
This entire string of damage reduction won't solve a thing... until you address the root of the problem. Not to mention its WAY over the top and heavy handed at the very least. I already have one foot out the door because of the way you've handled this and lack of foresight... you seriously need to rethink your entire position on this matter.
Adjustment:
Control Wizard: Chill: While a foe is affected by Shattered or the Stun from Shatter Strike they cannot be afflicted with stacks of Chill.
Control Wizard: Shatter Strike: Will no longer improperly hold players for 5 seconds or be immune to CC break effects.
Thank you all for your continued feedback.
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
Feedback: Shatter Strike's Stun is Overkill. Removing it would be for the best. - I've always thought that the Stun mechanic in Shatter Strike is overkill. IMO the Chill duration extension + the 5% max HP damage to enemies are enough of a bonus to Ice Control Wizards. It wouldn't hurt the Oppressor Path at all if it lost the Stun mechanic in the T5 Feat, because you guys made the path so usable and fun, that even I feel that the Stun is just too much. This will also help balance PVP and prevent those perma-stun instances that people have been worried about.
Second, I wanted to take a moment to talk about Casting Time, Cooldowns, and why powers had a lot of adjustments in this area. We sat down and looked at the damage potential of all the Control Wizard powers and looked at the damage potential of the power versus the total time spent actively casting it (Damage per cast time or DPCT). This functions like an opportunity cost where you are getting X damage for Y seconds spent casting. Most of the spells that had adjustments to casting time were substantially better powers than any other options for the same slot (Magic Missile was a prime offender here, being massively better than every other at will option in almost every possible situation). We also looked at the potential DPS of each power (which is a combination of Cast Time + Recharge Time versus the damage potential of the power) and adjusted various cooldowns to get more of these to be competitive. This meant buffs in a handful of cases, but largely it meant making them slightly longer to make more options competitive. We had several options for adjusting these, but instead of just making all of your powers deal less or more damage we wanted to try and preserve more of the damage potential of individual hits (because numbers feel really good) and slow down the rate at which those hits can be applied. While most powers needed only minor changes in this area, several were FAR stronger than any other option if they were used in a good situation.
But, in my opinion, you can't see it like this. Each power has its advantages and disadvantages. To give you some examples:
Steal Time (not on Spell Mastery):
+ AoE
+ procs High Vizier set (!!!)
+ has a higher chance to proc Eye of the Storm
+ reveals hidden targets (PvP)
+ doesn't add Chill (in case you don't want it for higher damage from Snap Freeze)
- lags out easily, even minor lag can cause it not to activate, but still go on full cooldown
- long activation time (your are vulnerable while activating)
- very easy to dodge (PvP)
- doesn't add Chill (in case you want Chill for higher damage)
Chill Strike (not on Spell Mastery):
+ stuns on impact
+ procs High Vizier set
+ adds Chill (in case you stack chill)
+ single target (PvP)
+ follows a non-dodging target
- easy to dodge
- single target (PvE)
- adds Chill (in case you use Snap Freeze and don't want Chill on your target for higher damage)
- long activation time
Sudden Storm:
+ refreshes Arcane stacks
+ AoE (PvE)
+ relatively high damage
+ doesn't add Chill (in case you don't want it for higher damage from Snap Freeze)
- useless in PvP (red areas are too easy to avoid)
- hard to use/position
- doesn't deal damage to targets affected by Arcane Singularity
- doesn't proc High Vizier
- doesn't add Chill (in case you want Chill for higher damage)
Those are just small examples. In my opinion, it's not right to base the skills off a damage/activation time ratio. And the best example is that you nerfed many pure PvP skills, even though CW is already not viable in PvP. Why would you do that? Not the damage/activation time ratio decides how effective a skill is. The very essence of the skill decides it. You can triple Storm Spell's damage instead of nerfing it; people still won't use it in PvP (purely rhetorical; the nerf itself was a good idea since it's a pure PvE skill). This is not a board game. Based on what I see so far, you completely ignore the practical side of the skills.
Just put a max target cap on singularity ,oppressive force,steal time, shard ( some people use it on mastery slot in PVP and 60% dmg cut is an overkill!!) and cut the nerf to 20/25% of the dmg.
Nerf High Vizier set.
Give encounters the correct casting time as on live server.
The change to EoTS is a good start, but the casting time is a PRIORITY.
Virus, Enemy Team.
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reagenlionel1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
But, in my opinion, you can't see it like this. Each power has its advantages and disadvantages. To give you some examples:
Steal Time (not on Spell Mastery):
+ AoE
+ procs High Vizier set (!!!)
+ has a higher chance to proc Eye of the Storm
+ reveals hidden targets (PvP)
+ doesn't add Chill (in case you don't want it for higher damage from Snap Freeze)
- lags out easily, even minor lag can cause it not to activate, but still go on full cooldown
- long activation time (your are vulnerable while activating)
- very easy to dodge (PvP)
- doesn't add Chill (in case you want Chill for higher damage)
Chill Strike (not on Spell Mastery):
+ stuns on impact
+ procs High Vizier set
+ adds Chill (in case you stack chill)
+ single target (PvP)
+ follows a non-dodging target
- easy to dodge
- single target (PvE)
- adds Chill (in case you use Snap Freeze and don't want Chill on your target for higher damage)
- long activation time
Sudden Storm:
+ refreshes Arcane stacks
+ AoE (PvE)
+ relatively high damage
+ doesn't add Chill (in case you don't want it for higher damage from Snap Freeze)
- useless in PvP (red areas are too easy to avoid)
- hard to use/position
- doesn't deal damage to targets affected by Arcane Singularity
- doesn't proc High Vizier
- doesn't add Chill (in case you want Chill for higher damage)
Those are just small examples. In my opinion, it's not right to base the skills off a damage/activation time ratio. And the best example is that you nerfed many pure PvP skills, even though CW is already not viable in PvP. Why would you do that? Not the damage/activation time ratio decides how effective a skill is. The very essence of the skill decides it. You can triple Storm Spell's damage instead of nerfing it; people still won't use it in PvP (purely rhetorical; the nerf itself was a good idea since it's a pure PvE skill). This is not a board game. Based on what I see so far, you completely ignore the practical side of the skills.
Thank you! This is what I've been essentially saying about how they are going about the skills in every post I made since I set eyes on these changes.
Theres just no correlation to have the basis on these skills when viewed like that.
Magic Missile: The first two strikes can be chained together about 40% slower. The third strike of Magic Missile now takes 1.4 seconds to fire (up from 1.2).It already feels jamming on live, now it's even worse. What is the reason for the 3rd strike having a delay at all, anyway?
Chilling Cloud: The final strike of Chilling Cloud now takes 1 second to fire (down from 1.2).With such damage, it won't be used much anyway, except maybe by oppressors for more chill (still, Ray of Frost is handier there).
Chill Strike: This power now takes 1.2 seconds to fire (up from 1 second).
Chill Strike: This power has had its recharge time increased to 15 seconds (up from 13 seconds).
Conduit of Ice: This power now takes 1.5 seconds to fire (up from .98 seconds).
Conduit of Ice: This power has had its recharge time reduced to 13 seconds (down from 18 seconds).Acceptable.
Icy Terrain: This power now ticks every 1 second (down from every 1.3 seconds).Ok, it's not game changing.
Sudden Storm: This power has had its recharge time increased to 14 seconds (up from 10 seconds).
Sudden Storm: This power has had its base damage reduced by roughly 33%
Ray of Enfeeblement: This power now takes 1.5 seconds to fire (up from .9 seconds).
Ray of Enfeeblement: This power has had its recharge time increased to 18 seconds (up from 14).If it stays as party debuff, it's acceptable.
Steal Time: This power has had its damage increased by roughly 65%.
Steal Time: This power has had its recharge time reduced to 18 seconds (down from 22 seconds).It doesn't really feel like the damage was buffed, weird.
Shard of the Endless Avalanche: This power has had its base impact damage reduced by roughly 33%.
Shard of the Endless Avalanche: This power has had its explosion damage reduced by roughly 60%.Reduced too much, makes the skill which was used only for its damage - due to 1) lengthy & complicated cast, 2) too many bugs (shard passing through mobs without damaging, shard disappearing without explosion, shard getting stuck in the area, shard casting the wrong way or behind CW's back...) - on the verge of complete uselessness.
Fanning the Flame: This power now takes 1.5 seconds to fire (up from .6 seconds).
Fanning the Flame: This power has had its recharge time increased to 22 seconds (up from 15 seconds).It seems bit much of an increase in cooldown, but I don't play Flame Master so no idea how much of an impact it is.
Arcane Singularity: Activation time increased to 2 seconds (up from 1 second).
Arcane Singularity: Now can affect up to 8 targets (down from 15).Target number reduction might affect dungeon runs too much, I'm unable to test it on preview though.Still, many CWs use Opressive Force rather than Singularity now anyway.
Oppressive Force: This power has had its overall damage reduced by roughly 9%.
Ice Knife: This power now takes 1.2 seconds to fire (up from .93 seconds).It's damage seems nerfed more than it would result just from feat changes. It was very dodgeable, still will be.
Eye of the Storm: Base Duration increased to 4 seconds (up from 2). Duration increase per rank increased to 1 (up from .5).Since its duration would be only 4 seconds, ICD of 25 seems decent, higher would be too long already.
Feats: Heroic
Wizard's Wrath: This feat now grants 1/2/3% area of effect damage (down from 2/4/6%).
Arcane Enhancement: This feat now grants 1/2/3% more Arcane damage (down from 2/4/6%).
Blighting Power: This feat now grants 2/4/6% more cold damage (down from 3/6/9%).
Focused Wizardry: *REWORK* Single target Powers deal 2/4/6% more damage.This feat is at the end of Heroic tree, it will most likely never be used since you can't invest more than 5 pts in the last column and those most will spend on Learned Spellcaster. It would be nicer if it switched places with Battlewise (the never taken feat).
Feats: Oppressor
*snip*
Something makes me feel Oppressor Flame Master might be the new king of CWs.
Feats: Thaumaturge
Tempest Magic: This feat now grants 1.5/3/4.5/6/7.5% (down from 2/4/6/8/10%) bonus damage while targets are below 30% HP.
Malevolent Surge: This feat now grants 1/2/3/4/5% (down from 2/4/6/8/10%) and no longer stacks. This feat now lasts 15 seconds (up from 4). Instead of 30% damage boost we get 5%. Heavy nerf. How about 10% non-stackable?
Snap Freeze: This feat now grants 2/4/6/8/10% (down from 3/6/9/12/15) bonus damage to your Cold At Wills and Encounters against foes who are not Chilled.
Frozen Power Transfer: This bonus now stacks up to a maximum of 3 stacks and is refreshed when you gain a new stack. Players will gain one stack for each target hit with the final strike of Chilling Cloud. This bonus now lasts 20 seconds (up from 8).
Transcended Master: Shard of Endless Avalanche now gains 2/4/6/8/10% (down from 3/6/9/12/15%) bonus damage. Icy Rays now gains 2/4/5/8/10% bonus damage down from 4/8/12/16/20% when cast on the same target twice and a .5/1/1.5/2/2.5 second(s) shorter cooldown when used on two different targets.Why was boost for Icy Rays nerfed? It's not a PvE skill and I don't see it used in dungeons. And it's nerfed even more than the Shard's bonus! Is it to put off CWs from pvping when Thauma?
Assailing Force: *REWORK* Dealing damage to foes has a chance to grant you Assailant. When you have Assailant your next encounter power deals 10% of the target's max HP as unresistable damage (max 500% weapon damage). This will only affect one target when used in an AoE.Is it working at all?
Damage-wise no path seems to perform noticeably better than any other. The only difference is oppressor giving more control and easier freezes. I find the older version were somehow more clearly divided in terms of their roles/uses.
Bug: Icy rays damage shown in the tooltip of the slotted skill is lower than the damage shown in the Power tree tooltip, it is the only skill with such a problem, & this also exists on Live. It does not depend on the feats tree/setup either.
Nightmare Wizardry: This feat now has a 1/2/3/4/5% chance (down from 4/8/12/16/20%) to grant you and allies combat advantage for 12 seconds (up from 4).
Phantasmal Destruction: When you deal Combat Advantage damage you have a 25% chance (down from 100%) to grant 3/6/9/12/15% Critical Severity for 6 seconds.
Less chance for a longer uptime sounds good if - and only if - the uptime is prolonged by the maximum duration everytime the given criteria is met. E.g. I critical hit and Nightmare Wizardry triggers. Ten seconds later Nightmare Wizardry triggers again on a critical hit. Will the duration now be be two or twelve seconds?
Please can we have the tooltips updated so that powers are clearly labelled whether they're "Control" , "Single target" or "AoE" ? Not only will this help builds, but it will also help us test whether feats/triggers are properly activating on the relevant powers.
A request for Icy Terrain. I can't imagine it ever being used in a CWs tab slot, as it's simply not a viable alternative to other powers which are far stronger. Please consider something like a larger area of effect if in tab, or perhaps a movement debuff for enemies who are standing on the aoe. That would make it more useful for PvP, and gives us a "battlefield control" option without it being huge dps.
Question on bitter cold - does the increased damage the target takes effect allied attacks as well? Or just the CW's attacks? One is a nice debuff, the other is an unimaginative feat.
Question on Alacrity - "you have a chance to reduce the cooldown". Please, please, state what the chance is. Also, can you confirm if there's any ICD? I want to know if I ray-of-frost someone, could this trigger multiple times within a short space of time as chill stacks increase on my target?
Question on Chaos Magic: "has a chance to apply" - same question as above. Please state the chance in the tooltip.
Icy Terrain: This power now ticks every 1 second (down from every 1.3 seconds).
First, if you use this skill with 2 CW you have a drastic drop in FPS. Fix the scenery bug first.
Shard of the Endless Avalanche: This power has had its impact base damage reduced by roughly 33%.
Shard of the Endless Avalanche: This power explosion has had its damage reduced by roughly 60%.
First NERF High Vizier to see how it would damage output. Make the set bonus: Stealing 300 per stack, nerfing the set already decreases about 30% Overall damage in the dungeon. Nerf the damage impact Shard of the Endless Avalanche in 20% (maximum), and the explosion in 30% (maximum)..
Arcane Singularity: Increased Activation Team to 2 seconds (up from 1 second).
Arcane Singularity: Now can Affect up to 8 targets (down from 15).
Affect 10 targets. And activation time 1 second.
Control Wizard: Eye of the Storm: ICD reduced to 25 seconds (down from 90 seconds)
Do not place ICD in the class feature is the unique advantage of SS CW, only decrease your chance of activating.
Feats: Oppressor
Cold Infusion: * REWORK * Foes deal 1/2/3/4/5% less damage for 10 seconds after being affected by Chill. This effect does not stack.
Put as CONTROL buffs. Example: Incresce the duration of Chill effects 2/4/6/8/10%. This effect does not stack.
Controlled Momentum: * REWORK * After using the Power Control nearby allies deal 1/2/3/4/5% more damage for 6 seconds. This effect does not stack.
Allies deal 2/4/6/8/10% more damage for 10 seconds. This effect does not stack.
Shatter Strike: * REWORK * When you freeze the target They are afflicted by Shattered is 10 seconds. Shattered foes have a chance When taking damage to be stunned for 5 seconds (1 second on players) and take up to 5% of Max HP damage in their (max 300% weapon damage). This effect consumes Shatter. Additionally, control your powers deal 100% of your weapon damage against targets immune control and Chill lasts 2.5 seconds longer.
Control Wizard: Chill: While the foe is affected by the Stun from or Shattered Shatter Strike They can not be afflicted with stacks of Chill.
Control Wizard: Shatter Strike: Will the players improperly longer hold for 5 seconds or be immune to break CC effects.
OK, my suggestion is to make this paragon focus only the control, with some damage buffs (based in chill) for CW and the party.
This change will be for next dungeons or just keep doing CN?
Feats: Thaumaturge
Malevolent Surge: This feat now grants 1/2/3/4/5% (down from 2/4/6/8/10%) and no longer stacks. This feat now lasts 15 seconds (up from 4).
15% maximum. No longer stacks.
Destructive Wizardry (Paragon: Storm): This feat now grants 1/2/3/4/5% (down from 2/4/5/8/10%) bonus damage. This feat requires the longer you strike at least 2 targets, but now requires you fully charge Storm Pillar. This feat now lasts 20 seconds (up from 6).
No need REWORK , leave it as is.
Elemental Empowerment: * REWORK * Dealing Cold damage has to 3/6/9/12/15% chance to apply Creeping Frost. Creeping Frost deals 85% of your weapon damage as cold damage every 3 seconds for 18 seconds. Dealing Arcane damage has to 3/6/9/12/15% chance to apply Warped Magics. Warped Magics deals 50% of your weapon damage the Arcane damage every 3 seconds for 18 seconds. Warped Magics ignores half of the target's resistance. These effects of not stack.
This feat would be better in the opressor tree. Come back as it was before.
Assailing Force: * REWORK * Dealing damage to foes has a chance to grant you Assailant. When you have your next encounter Assailant power deals 10% of the target's max HP unresistable the damage (max 500% weapon damage). This will only target one Affect When used in an AoE.
Put this last feat as a PERSONAL DPS BUFF, Thaumaturge must be the DPS tree CW ( i guess).
In short: Thaumaturge need to have a Increases damage output by about 30 ~ 40% greater than the Oppressor tree.
New proposed changes make it a viable choice once again. Theoretically, people with vorpal enchants or low crit chance should see greater than 10% increase in their DPS.
Renegade Tree
Was thinking of ideas to make this tree enticing. The vision I have is a mage wrapped in a lightning shield, doing close range damage. To make this enticing, I would recommend the following.
Chaos Magic
Completely change this. Change it to Chaos Shield, where your Shield spell wraps you in a maelstrom of lightning, dealing a little AE damage and slowing those around you (within 15') by 10% for 3 seconds. This would breathe life into the Shield spell. Provide some control to grouped monsters. You can modify the damage of this spell to bring the Renegade wizard inline with other feat trees. And it would add a counter to the perma stealth TR.
Masterful Arcane Theft
Sudden Storm now adds 1/2/3/4/5 % Lifesteal for 10 seconds. Since the Renegade wizard is most effective in close range, they could use more Life Steal.
Nightmare Wizardry
One issue that I see is that there are no specific cross class synergies with feats. With the changes to Steal Time and the GF Marks, I would propose this. Steal Time now adds a more persistent Mark (lasts 1/2/3/4/6 seconds) to any monster within 10' of the GF. This would trigger off the GF, give everyone combat advantage to the monsters and provide a direct synergy with the GF. I would move this feat to Tier 3 so it is not as easily obtained.
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crystal892fMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 385Arc User
edited June 2014
Cold Infusion: *REWORK* Foes deal 1/2/3/4/5% less damage for 10 seconds after being affected by Chill. This effect does not stack.
Feedback: As I see it, the only change is the "10 seconds after being affected by Chill". But I find 5% still too less to take this feat. Or am I missing something?
As comparison: A TR (the only other class I play, so I can't make any other comparison) has also feats to reduce targets damage by 5% - Distracting Knife and Expert Sneak. But both are paired with a second effect. This feat isn't. So I'd either suggest to increase the % or replace it.
Alacrity: *REWORK* When you deal damage to foes affected by Chill you have a chance to reduce the cooldown on Icy Terrain and Entangling Force by .5/1/1.5/2/2.5 second(s).
Feedback: I like the idea, but it should effect more spells. Like Chill Strike (also an control spell, and Oppressors are supposed to be the best controllers), i.e. But therefore reducing the seconds. And maybe even a short ICD of like 5 - 10 seconds.
Control Wizard: Eye of the Storm: ICD reduced to 25 seconds (Down from 90 seconds)
Feedback: I'd suggest a shorter ICD, but therefore the active time like now on live. Like i.e.:
"This power now has an internal cooldown of 12 seconds. Base Duration stays at 2. Duration increase per rank stays at .5."
It's more a personal thing, but I like "3 seconds every 12 seconds" more than "6 seconds every 25 seconds" (both have an uptime of ~25%, if my math isn't off).
Feedback general (for now):
- Like many others, I disagree with the longer animations. Rather increase the cooldown (encounters) or lower the damage (Magic Missile).
- I agree with clearer tooltips. ICDs, chances to proc, if a spell is a control spell, AoE, single target, ...
This is nonsense, nerfing the most fragile class in the game to make it more weak that it is already while letting other classes rule the game and be unkillable ..
They didn't nerf it or change the meta at all...
Ran a Castle Never run with two CW's a GWF and an Archery HR. The results were dismaying. Although the Archery HR was able to deal the most damage, the margin was not by much from me to the Oppressor CW's. What was also dismaying is that the GWF destroyer put out over 5 million less damage than the two CW's which means now that the CW will still be king, the HR steals the GWF's thunder and the new meta will be 3CW and an HR.If the purpose of these changes is indeed a balance pass than it isn't going to work. The one thing that should be done which would help party diversity immensely is disable stacking effects from the same classes. That and get rid of the x button tracking charts.
Hey guys, adding one more incoming change to the list of things going up in the next week or two. We really like the concept of Shard, but having it be bar none your best nuke was worrying, especially given that in dungeon and group content it was often pretty hard not to get the most out of it. However we do like the control aspect it does bring and the skill required to land that when there are less foes (or in PVP where it should still merit a slot). Given that we are making the following change to reinforce that.
Control Wizard: Shard of the Endless Avalanche: This power now prones NPCs for 3.5 seconds (up from 1) and prones players for 2.25 seconds (up from 1).
Comments
Just for these 2 thank you so much , definitely a move in the right direction for spellstorm , I am sure many others will also thank you , these changes show all the people who have thrown fits and threatened to quit that if constructive feedback is given then you will listen , the 90 second icd was just complete overkill , I can't wait to get back on and test when these changes hit preview , as for casting times I am still not thrilled by the increases but hopefully continued feedback may get some of the increases at least reduced a little * fingers crossed*.
Also, while I am still against the Steal Time buff, I could come to agree with it, if every tick on every enemy didn't count as an additional "new Encounter" for purposes of triggering Items, Feats and Companion Actives, which is what makes this Power a must-have on every Control Wizard's bar at present.
But do you realize that people spent more than a year physically practicing rotations in all kinds of different situations? This is not a pure strategy game or something like Neverwinter Nights, where you take turns attacking. Do you understand the damage you're doing by changing casting times? You can change the damage, but not the very essence of what keeps people attached to their characters. I spent 30 minutes on preview. I wanted to run some ACT tests and see how the new feat changes work out. I couldn't do it. I can't play a CW like this. Not after over a year of practice. I already said everything here. You can change the damage, effects, destroy the class completely if you like, but you can't change the casting times. This is too much.
I'd like to take this opportunity, in the light of your explanation, to say that I think you DEVs made an excellent choice over there. By adjusting CDs instead of damage, you actually opened a lot of space for the Recovery stat, without necessarily diminishing the usefulness of other stats like ArP, Power or Crit. Although it may sound obvious, people sometimes miss to realise that the bigger the number, the bigger it's proportions. What I mean by this is that 25% of 20 seconds is 5 seconds, while 25% of 10 seconds is 2.5 seconds. So, having longer CDs means that any small percentage obtained by Recovery will be that much more valuable. [note that I am talking about CDs and not Casting Times]
On a related note, I think that it's VERY IMPORTANT that Feats have their durations tweaked up proportionally to the general CD increase of the powers. Otherwise, if you manage to get a certain Feat to proc only on your third Encounter, you won't have anything to do with it because the CDs are so big.
Again, just my thoughts, I hope you give them something to work with.
I agree. The casting-time makes the class less enjoyable to play and we lose control that we very much need now after the nerfs.
Also I dont see how any other tree than oppressor will be played now since shatter is the only extra control we have. Everyone is gonna run the same build now just for the control that shatter gives.
I rather see you nerf damage then change the power mechanics like this.
Singularity already wasn't being used by the high end CW due to it's interference with Shard and it's overall low damage.
Just curious, because I'd have thought Oppressive Force was long overdue for a nerf yet it comes away with a mere 9% damage reduction while still being able to hit eight billion add's if there are eight billion add's.
That's an issue for me.
It's potential damage is far, far out of line given that one fact. Singularity already couldn't compete even if it tried, and there was never really an alternate daily choice after you learned how to use OF.
Or is just this a sly method of making us use Fiery Immolation now that it's better than Singularity in every imaginable way?
By comparison, Icy Terrain is also uncapped on targets but it's individual hits are exceedingly small. That would be how I would imagine a reworked Oppressive Force. The infinite daze is helpful, but the AoE debuff nuke is out of line.
*Standing applause*
These changes are very much appreciated. I will test them out and give more feedback. I suspect 25 seconds may be a tad too fast of a recharge. But I'll test it and give more informed feedback.
Hmmm. That's interesting. My own testing found that Chilling Cloud was the highest dps at-will in situations of 3 or more enemies and Storm Pillar the highest for single targets. Magic Missile was good, but not great. Honestly, I found Magic Missile hurt my dps. Agree to disagree on that one.
For the new damage reductions I believe they were enacted because of the immense amount of damage that can be stacked on multiple targets. So testing on the preview shard versus 5 targets all being shard slammed the damage seemed much more in line with my other encounter abilities, but testing it on single targets the damage is so weak it's almost worse then using a magic missile burst. Something that had came to mind was instead of reducing the damage by a set amount, what if the damage would reduce by the number of people being hit? That way it would still be a good encounter to use in single combat, aswell as still being effective versus multiple foes, but just having the damage spread out in a way. Like throwing a bunch of rocks at a one person opposed to five people, the more people hit by the rocks the less amount of rocks will hit each individual person. In Neverwinter terms, the more enemies hit the less damage each one takes. Like at 5-15% damage reduction per person, you won't be getting a 200k+ total damage hit from one encounter hitting all the mobs, but then you also can retain a practical damage output on a single person.
CRAZY MIKE - 14.6k PvE CW
Backbone - 16.7k PvP HR
[SIGPIC]http://i59.tinypic.com/s3hts7.png[/SIGPIC]
100% agree. Shard is a great encounter in PvP with its damage and prone capability. It would be nice to continue with it in Mod 4. Having damage reduce by number hit would also achieve the goal of limiting crazy AoE damage.
I run a very high DPS Thaumaturge build, so likely I’m the type of build that you’re trying to bring back under control. I mainly do PvE so that’s how most of my feedback will be oriented. However, since I have done fairly thorough testing of all powers I will throw in a few comments about how I see PvP abilities being affected as well. I’ll try to keep my feedback constructive.
General
• Armor Penetration should now correctly work on all powers.
Definitely needed. This should be seen as a 20%-ish damage buff to all of the bugged abilities most of which were single-target. That is where CW’s were pretty underpowered, so it’s appreciated.
Powers
• Magic Missile: The first two strikes can be chained together about 40% slower. The third strike of Magic Missile now takes 1.4 seconds to fire (up from 1.2). Overall, it feels a little clunky. Not a major change, though.
Chilling Cloud: The final strike of Chilling Cloud now takes 1 second to fire (down from 1.2). Not a major change. No comment.
Scorching Burst: This power now benefits more from being charged. The bonus from charging has been improved by roughly 50%. No comment
Chill Strike: This power now takes 1.2 seconds to fire (up from 1 second).
Chill Strike: This power has had its recharge time increased to 15 seconds (up from 13 seconds).
This spell underperforms compared to Conduit of Ice, Steal Time, Shard of Avalanche, and Sudden Storm so I never used it after the first time I parsed data. It was already clunky in boss fights since its animation can’t be cancelled. During boss fights if you cast Chill Strike an instant before the ground turns red beneath you there is no hope of dodging the attack. I recommend making it so you can dodge out of the animation like most other spells. That would make it a much more usable spell for me.
Conduit of Ice: This power now takes 1.5 seconds to fire (up from .98 seconds).
Conduit of Ice: This power has had its recharge time reduced to 13 seconds (down from 18 seconds).
Conduit of Ice: This power has had its damage reduced by roughly 33%.
Hard to judge these changes. On the plus side, armor penetration is fixed and cooldown is significantly lowered. On the minus side, damage is reduced, casting time increased, and there’s no longer a 15% enemy debuff from the Thaumaturge tree. Overall I think this spell is worse off, but after testing it is still good enough to earn a spot in the spell rotation and does 12-18% of my damage. I think it’s a reasonable adjustment.
Entangling Force: This power's damage over time component now ticks every .5 seconds (down from every .65 seconds).
Entangling Force: This power now takes 1.2 seconds to fire (up from 1 second).
Entangling Force: This power has had its total base damage reduced by about 10% overall.
Inconsequential to PvE as it was basically useless to begin with and remains so. Choking one enemy in a mob of 20 doesn’t help and all dangerous enemies are immune.
Icy Terrain: This power now ticks every 1 second (down from every 1.3 seconds).
Bug: The animation can cause a large amount of slowdown. All of the freezing and shattering animations can cause the game animations to lag behind the actual code. After using this spell you can be hit by enemy attacks before they happen.
With the Oppressor tree changes this is now a very viable spell both for damage and control. It's nice to see a control buff. That is initially how I intended to play my character until I realized how much more effective uber-damage builds were.
Sudden Storm: This power has had its recharge time increased to 14 seconds (up from 10 seconds).
Sudden Storm: This power has had its base damage reduced by roughly 33.
Bug: Sudden Storm has a 0% chance to proc Storm Spell. Storm Spell’s description says it has a 10% chance on all attacks.
These adjustments are fair. Sudden Storm was the highest damaging encounter in my average dungeon run. This brings it back in line without killing it off completely. It still should be our highest damaging encounter since its AoE is short range and narrow. It takes skill to use it. Don’t take it any lower. People who can use it effectively should be rewarded for doing so.
Ray of Enfeeblement: This power now takes 1.5 seconds to fire (up from .9 seconds).
Ray of Enfeeblement: This power has had its recharge time increased to 18 seconds (up from 14).
Ray of Enfeeblement: Allies no longer benefit from this debuff.
EDIT: Control Wizard: Ray of Enfeeblement: Allies now benefit from this effect again, but multiple Wizards cannot stack this effect for increased potency.
Bug: Casting RoE a second time cancels the damage of the first cast.
The last adjustment is a perfect compromise. RoE has no use without the group debuff. But making it not stack will discourage having multiple CW's in the party on boss fights.
Steal Time: This power has had its damage increased by roughly 65%.
Steal Time: This power has had its recharge time reduced to 18 seconds (down from 22 seconds).
This buff was needed to offset the loss of Eye of the Storm since that was the main reason to use Steal Time. I wonder if this is overdoing it, however. Steal Time was already good for ~10% of my damage in a normal run. Adding 65% to that, reducing the cooldown, and nerfing everything else has made this the highest damaging spell a CW has. It now does more damage in a dungeon run than any other spell. The fact that it gives great control and applies all three high vizier debuff stacks at once makes this quite overpowered. I would recommend scaling back the damage in exchange for removing some of the Shard of Avalanche and Sudden Storm nerfs.
Shard of the Endless Avalanche: This power has had its base impact damage reduced by roughly 33%.
Shard of the Endless Avalanche: This power has had its explosion damage reduced by roughly 60%.
The 33% reduction is fine (though that wasn’t a big contributor to damage in the first place), but the 60 % reduction seems much too heavy-handed. Its damage was out of line, but dividing the damage by 2.5 is extreme in the other direction for several reasons: 1) this is the final encounter spell awarded to a CW. It’s the capstone. It should be good. 2) It is a pain in the neck to summon. Use of Shard requires two long, separate casting animations – one to summon it, then one to push. That is a steep penalty to using the ability already. 3) If at any time you are interrupted after summoning the shard it disappears; the spell is lost entirely and a full cooldown must pass before it can be used again. 2) and 3) make the spell brutal to try and use when being chased down by a mob. Even in low T2 dungeons like Pirate King it can very aggravating to try and get shard summoned in the heat of battle. Lowering the damage to the point that it is in the same damage range as Conduit of Ice and Icy Terrain makes it still somewhat useful because of the prone, but a terribly disappointing final ability. It’s one may will choose to do without.
I'll test out the rest of the changes and the new feat trees in the coming days. Now that some of the feats have been fixed I can better comparison. However, just so you are aware the highest damaging builds I have found are all in the oppressor tree.
Well,after doing some more testing i can definitely say that after the casting of some spells,especially Fanning the Flame,the players avatar becomes unresponsive to movement commands, for a second or two to deadly effect. It is the single most annoying thing i'm experiencing and it is my belief that casting times change had something to do with it.However no matter the reason it needs to be looked at. Also for some reason i'm occasionally seeing Arcane Singularity effects,where there shouldn't be any. This graphics bug appears in Ice wind pass. Sometimes it's only one black hole in mid air ,sometimes more,but they all disappear the moment i approach them.
I totally agree with this statement. The point is that it takes practice to get to a strong DPS rotation. If you do the current skirmish you see maybe one out of six CWs at level 60 who actually know how do high damage. Most CWs use wrong spells and rotations and do a mediocre damage already today.
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
Shard: consider, that this power has the longest casting time and is not very comfortable to use. Before EF action points gain nerf and Shield burst nerf hardly any CW used it, just because of that. Now, that it's damage is so low, shard might be gone from PvE again.
Also, too much Icy terrain, Shatter and Frozen causes graphics to lag incredibly.
Btw. we've noticed with collogue that on preview (but also on live server) there is a discrepancy between tool tip on icy rays displayed on Power Tree (where it shows bigger damage), and the slotted one (which shows lower damage).
My biggest concern is still the Renegade tree, with NW being reduced from 20% -> 5%. The proc on the ability is so limited now, that it makes the tree considerably weaker. In consideration, I'd think that 10% chance would be a better reduction, and would still keep the Renegade tree relevant in both PvP and PvE.
The efficiency comes because most, if not all dungeons are utterly boring. If it wasn't for the AD, i would not run a single dungeon in a week.
Now to the CW. While i agree that balancing is a never ending act, you can't just go all out and cut almost everything what was good by ~50%.
Eye of the storm : While i agree with a internal cooldown, now proposed to be 25 seconds, i still disagree with the amount. I think 10 seconds is in line, revert the steal time changes to 22 seconds cool down and leave eye of the storm with a 10 second internal cool down which procs for 2 seconds.
Shard : Overkill. Straight up overkill. I agree that the explosion was some serious business, which goes almost to 160k in some rare situations, but nerfing the explosion by roughly 65% is way too much. 40% would be something i could agree on.
These are the only skills which i do not agree on. I won't go into detail on feats because those need more testing. Although i feel like renegade got hit so hard, that you would be better off deleting the path and tell people CW always had only 2.
First conclusion : Nerf the high vizier set bonus. Nerf it down to 150 per stack. This will indirectly nerf steal time too but its needed in order to balance out the other skills i mentioned to be in a more acceptable range to current state.
Oh and btw. : Make the other sets viable compared to high vizier. Give them some love, and not some stupid 45 seconds internal cool downs. No one likes internal cooldowns, this is one of the worst mechanic in any game.
And if you don't have any idea, make the shard, sudden storm or whatever you feel like smaller. Make it so people have to actually think instead of mashing the same buttons over and over. Skill/reward is something that motivates. I see alot of CW's who have way better gear but do way less damage simply because they can't play or don't understand mechanics. I hope you get what i mean by that.
Some people ( including me ) feel threatened that skill will be a non factor anymore.
]My average crit on shard was around 20K. The biggest I saw today was 7K. I may as well throw magic missiles. Groups of IWD trash mobs that I used to 1 shot with shards were sometimes killing me because I was getting interrupted very often and spent more time waiting for cooldowns. If cast times and cooldowns stay the same, can we at least get more stamina for extra dodges?
I rarely saw anything proc. EotS once in awhile. Chaos magic a couple of times, and never noticed Nightmare Wizardry. Maybe I just didn't notice them, because I was too busy trying to stay alive.
While Icy Terrain sounds like it's better now, many people can't group with its users, because it's too laggy. Pleas don't make all CWs rely on this power. In fact, all CWs should not have to use the same build and powers, and it looks like that's what's happening now. . I chose the renegade path because it seemed to take more skill and because that acquired skill paid off. I've spent a year practicing it. Now I feel as though you don't want us to be renegades.
The issue with control powers where cc duration was being inaccurately reduced by deflection was mentioned as having a fix in the works, but I didn't see anything in the notes about it (referring to the thread about repel). Shard moving through people with no effect or getting stuck in random places should also be fixed. I have also noticed that when shard slam is deflected by an enemy, the enemy always deflects the explosion as well even if still prone.
Feedback:
Survivability
My opinion stems entirely from a PVP perspective, where in terms of class changes my view was that CWs would benefit from a small tweak to survivability via their dodge (teleport) mechanics, but are otherwise on a level playing field on live in terms of damage output and cc if the deflect and armor pen bugs are fixed.
When I think of teleporting, I think of someone initially in one spot who then without much indication appears in another place, again with no indication of which direction they were heading. Since stamina is required, it would also make sense that using more stamina could teleport you further, and having our dodges be chain-able or less clunky when used in succession (similar to HR) could be an application of that.
Even with the changes to Threatening Rush having three charges on live, at base stats CWs only have 3 dodges that do not put them outside of the rush range. Adjusting the teleport distance such that it extends a mere few steps outside of this range would be a small tweak with a large boost to survivability. Additionally, in the case that a GWF is out of charges and a CW dodges away to create space, this small window of opportunity will be ruined because the GWF will now be able to sprint to them with cc immunity!
I think a small change to the dodge animation/mechanic, whether in making them chain-able to increase distance by double tapping shift or triple tapping movement keys, increasing the distance of teleport in general, removing the animation that allows players to see exactly where you are teleporting to, etc. would help equal the survivability playing field. Another consideration would being giving CWs more AC from gear.
Casting Times
In terms of the reasoning behind the increased cool down and casting time on encounters, being that to establish equilibrium between the amount of time it takes to cast an encounter relative to its damage, I would wholeheartedly choose having a damage reduction to establish equilibrium with the current casting times on live as opposed to how it is on the preview.
As others have mentioned, a lot of the satisfaction in playing the CW class, whether in PVP or PVE, is in practicing and perfecting your encounter rotation to be seamless and smooth. While increased cool downs can be adapted to by adding recovery or otherwise reallocating stats, and do not affect the ability to chain encounters but rather how often you are able to chain them, a purely mechanic change to how long you are rooted to cast an encounter simply ruins the currently smooth combat.
With my rotation on live, I am able to jump between encounters to maintain space between myself and the opponent, but with the increased casting times I have to dodge between encounters to maintain the same space, leaving me essentially helpless at the end.
Feat Changes
Due to the utility added to the Oppressor tree, I think that CWs will essentially be forced into this path for PVP since Thaum and Rene have been comparatively nerfed. As a user of all three trees in my build, I like being able to sacrifice a tree capstone in favor of incorporating elements that match my play style from all trees. It seems as though each capstone has been reworked to receive a net gain, while several preceding feats in each tree have been nerfed, essentially forcing you to pick a capstone since the opportunity cost of using a few feats in each tree is no longer worth it. In my opinion, really only the capstones needed to be made more appealing -- if I'm putting five points into a feat I expect a decent gain from it and if I'm putting twenty points into an entire tree to receive a capstone I also expect a largely applicable benefit as well (ie. something not dependent upon the power being used), which I think was the only thing lacking on live.
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#BringBackShard | M5 CW Bug List | My M3 PvP Gameplay
Ok... Now we can START to talk...
Shards of Endless Avalanch.
Just so you know what we're looking at here... I'll directly post screenshots of my Character, and the spell itself.
This is the FULL character setup (MoF), wearing your FULL Black Ice Armor you just made in the new expansion, and a 7600 power.
This is a high geared character with a 16K plus Gear score, using Greater Vorpal.
You can easily verify this on your own servers and even take my character for a test run I'm sure with the access you have.
THIS.... is direct from YOUR tooltip in game for the base damage of Shards of Endless Avalanch.
ON LIVE SERVER....
I can tell you right now, the Shardplosion on this character hits around 7000 damage non crit with Transcended Master Feated for the 15% damage increase WITH a 7600 power. The recast on this when I had a 3500 Recovery prior to the Black Ice Gear and the SAME power is around 12 seconds, according to the number that ticks down from the CD timer on the Power Itself.
That means, this spell which IS (I might add) the Keystone Power of the CW class, its HIGHEST level spell, that is supposed to mirror the 18th level Magic User top damaging spell called "Meteor Swarm". (Which its a surprisingly good representation of by the way).....
.... does approximately... 580 damage per second... Per target... as base damage with those feats and high recovery score.
It Crits about an average of 20,000 damage (Give or Take) for me with a greater Vorpal.... and your newly offered Corrupt Black Ice ORB... which CAN make it about 1600 damage per second... and I am an MoF WHO DOES NOT HAVE... Eye of the Storm.
This is EXTREMELY low in terms of dps ALREADY. AND much lower than the Striker Classes Capstone DPS feats. Its even lower than some of OUR AT WILL powers, and that's WITH a 16k+ Gear score and 7600 power.
Your current Nerf will reduce this to approximately 203 damage per second per target... that is SO low its questionable as to whether that spell will ever be used again, its actually less DPS than some of the Newbie First level Wizard spells with your current "Adjustment".... . This is from an MoF perspective who does not have Eye of the Storm to guarantee Crits with it.
DID you really think this one through?
Remember this is the Capstone top of the line uber power of the ENTIRE CW class... you're about to nerf to a DPS so low its going to be highly questionable as to even whether its even usable... considering not only does it have a good 2 second casting time, but ALSO has to be pushed at targets on top of that... AND can completely wiff an entire group of mobs leaving you with ZERO damage entirely...
First of all... I am having difficulty seeing why this needs to be Nerfed at ALL... BUT even if you did... 65% reduction from Shardplosion? What were you thinking?
And THATS with a 16k+ GEARED Character
Let alone a 12k-13k Standard Mage who has maybe a whopping power score of 4000-5000.
Did you guys think about this? Or did you just wild guess here... This isn't even something difficult to check. You couldn't possibly have overlooked this.
So what is the point of taking the Top level Highest level CW spell, and reducing the damage per second that low?
Did you assume that ONLY uber geared SPELLSTORMS with Eye of the Storm use this one?
Because the ONLY thing that makes the damage on that spell so high is ENORMOUS AMOUNTS of MOBS.... the more mobs you throw at the party... the higher the damage of ANY CW goes.
Bringing us to the second point...
Your Real problem here isn't and never was CW damage. You want to change that don't throw so many mass mobs at an AoE class. They are going to do a whopload of damage over the other classes... why?
Remember all those other classes that are complaining about being excluded? They're all Striker classes (ie Single Target). There's no way in hell they can participate in those shoes and NEVER will be able to. You made the dungeons so MASS MOB filled, you excuded the other classes from participation.
And then you called the CW "out of line" or "overpowered" despite the ACTUAL DPS being EXTREMELY low in the first place.
I think you need to SERIOULY rethink ALL of these changes... and understand where the complaints are ACTUALLY coming from on the other classes.
This entire string of damage reduction won't solve a thing... until you address the root of the problem. Not to mention its WAY over the top and heavy handed at the very least. I already have one foot out the door because of the way you've handled this and lack of foresight... you seriously need to rethink your entire position on this matter.
Feedback: Shatter Strike's Stun is Overkill. Removing it would be for the best.
- I've always thought that the Stun mechanic in Shatter Strike is overkill. IMO the Chill duration extension + the 5% max HP damage to enemies are enough of a bonus to Ice Control Wizards. It wouldn't hurt the Oppressor Path at all if it lost the Stun mechanic in the T5 Feat, because you guys made the path so usable and fun, that even I feel that the Stun is just too much. This will also help balance PVP and prevent those perma-stun instances that people have been worried about.
But, in my opinion, you can't see it like this. Each power has its advantages and disadvantages. To give you some examples:
Steal Time (not on Spell Mastery):
+ AoE
+ procs High Vizier set (!!!)
+ has a higher chance to proc Eye of the Storm
+ reveals hidden targets (PvP)
+ doesn't add Chill (in case you don't want it for higher damage from Snap Freeze)
- lags out easily, even minor lag can cause it not to activate, but still go on full cooldown
- long activation time (your are vulnerable while activating)
- very easy to dodge (PvP)
- doesn't add Chill (in case you want Chill for higher damage)
Chill Strike (not on Spell Mastery):
+ stuns on impact
+ procs High Vizier set
+ adds Chill (in case you stack chill)
+ single target (PvP)
+ follows a non-dodging target
- easy to dodge
- single target (PvE)
- adds Chill (in case you use Snap Freeze and don't want Chill on your target for higher damage)
- long activation time
Sudden Storm:
+ refreshes Arcane stacks
+ AoE (PvE)
+ relatively high damage
+ doesn't add Chill (in case you don't want it for higher damage from Snap Freeze)
- useless in PvP (red areas are too easy to avoid)
- hard to use/position
- doesn't deal damage to targets affected by Arcane Singularity
- doesn't proc High Vizier
- doesn't add Chill (in case you want Chill for higher damage)
Those are just small examples. In my opinion, it's not right to base the skills off a damage/activation time ratio. And the best example is that you nerfed many pure PvP skills, even though CW is already not viable in PvP. Why would you do that? Not the damage/activation time ratio decides how effective a skill is. The very essence of the skill decides it. You can triple Storm Spell's damage instead of nerfing it; people still won't use it in PvP (purely rhetorical; the nerf itself was a good idea since it's a pure PvE skill). This is not a board game. Based on what I see so far, you completely ignore the practical side of the skills.
Nerf High Vizier set.
Give encounters the correct casting time as on live server.
The change to EoTS is a good start, but the casting time is a PRIORITY.
Thank you! This is what I've been essentially saying about how they are going about the skills in every post I made since I set eyes on these changes.
Theres just no correlation to have the basis on these skills when viewed like that.
- Magic Missile: The first two strikes can be chained together about 40% slower. The third strike of Magic Missile now takes 1.4 seconds to fire (up from 1.2).It already feels jamming on live, now it's even worse. What is the reason for the 3rd strike having a delay at all, anyway?
- Chilling Cloud: The final strike of Chilling Cloud now takes 1 second to fire (down from 1.2).With such damage, it won't be used much anyway, except maybe by oppressors for more chill (still, Ray of Frost is handier there).
- Chill Strike: This power now takes 1.2 seconds to fire (up from 1 second).
- Chill Strike: This power has had its recharge time increased to 15 seconds (up from 13 seconds).
- Conduit of Ice: This power now takes 1.5 seconds to fire (up from .98 seconds).
- Conduit of Ice: This power has had its recharge time reduced to 13 seconds (down from 18 seconds).Acceptable.
- Icy Terrain: This power now ticks every 1 second (down from every 1.3 seconds).Ok, it's not game changing.
- Sudden Storm: This power has had its recharge time increased to 14 seconds (up from 10 seconds).
- Sudden Storm: This power has had its base damage reduced by roughly 33%
- Ray of Enfeeblement: This power now takes 1.5 seconds to fire (up from .9 seconds).
- Ray of Enfeeblement: This power has had its recharge time increased to 18 seconds (up from 14).If it stays as party debuff, it's acceptable.
- Steal Time: This power has had its damage increased by roughly 65%.
- Steal Time: This power has had its recharge time reduced to 18 seconds (down from 22 seconds).It doesn't really feel like the damage was buffed, weird.
- Shard of the Endless Avalanche: This power has had its base impact damage reduced by roughly 33%.
- Shard of the Endless Avalanche: This power has had its explosion damage reduced by roughly 60%.Reduced too much, makes the skill which was used only for its damage - due to 1) lengthy & complicated cast, 2) too many bugs (shard passing through mobs without damaging, shard disappearing without explosion, shard getting stuck in the area, shard casting the wrong way or behind CW's back...) - on the verge of complete uselessness.
- Fanning the Flame: This power now takes 1.5 seconds to fire (up from .6 seconds).
- Fanning the Flame: This power has had its recharge time increased to 22 seconds (up from 15 seconds).It seems bit much of an increase in cooldown, but I don't play Flame Master so no idea how much of an impact it is.
- Arcane Singularity: Activation time increased to 2 seconds (up from 1 second).
- Arcane Singularity: Now can affect up to 8 targets (down from 15).Target number reduction might affect dungeon runs too much, I'm unable to test it on preview though.Still, many CWs use Opressive Force rather than Singularity now anyway.
- Oppressive Force: This power has had its overall damage reduced by roughly 9%.
- Ice Knife: This power now takes 1.2 seconds to fire (up from .93 seconds).It's damage seems nerfed more than it would result just from feat changes. It was very dodgeable, still will be.
- Eye of the Storm: Base Duration increased to 4 seconds (up from 2). Duration increase per rank increased to 1 (up from .5).Since its duration would be only 4 seconds, ICD of 25 seems decent, higher would be too long already.
Feats: Heroic- Wizard's Wrath: This feat now grants 1/2/3% area of effect damage (down from 2/4/6%).
- Arcane Enhancement: This feat now grants 1/2/3% more Arcane damage (down from 2/4/6%).
- Blighting Power: This feat now grants 2/4/6% more cold damage (down from 3/6/9%).
- Focused Wizardry: *REWORK* Single target Powers deal 2/4/6% more damage.This feat is at the end of Heroic tree, it will most likely never be used since you can't invest more than 5 pts in the last column and those most will spend on Learned Spellcaster. It would be nicer if it switched places with Battlewise (the never taken feat).
Feats: Oppressor*snip*
Something makes me feel Oppressor Flame Master might be the new king of CWs.Feats: Thaumaturge
Damage-wise no path seems to perform noticeably better than any other. The only difference is oppressor giving more control and easier freezes. I find the older version were somehow more clearly divided in terms of their roles/uses.
Bug: Icy rays damage shown in the tooltip of the slotted skill is lower than the damage shown in the Power tree tooltip, it is the only skill with such a problem, & this also exists on Live. It does not depend on the feats tree/setup either.
Less chance for a longer uptime sounds good if - and only if - the uptime is prolonged by the maximum duration everytime the given criteria is met. E.g. I critical hit and Nightmare Wizardry triggers. Ten seconds later Nightmare Wizardry triggers again on a critical hit. Will the duration now be be two or twelve seconds?
Powers:
Icy Terrain: This power now ticks every 1 second (down from every 1.3 seconds).
First, if you use this skill with 2 CW you have a drastic drop in FPS. Fix the scenery bug first.
Shard of the Endless Avalanche: This power has had its impact base damage reduced by roughly 33%.
Shard of the Endless Avalanche: This power explosion has had its damage reduced by roughly 60%.
First NERF High Vizier to see how it would damage output. Make the set bonus: Stealing 300 per stack, nerfing the set already decreases about 30% Overall damage in the dungeon. Nerf the damage impact Shard of the Endless Avalanche in 20% (maximum), and the explosion in 30% (maximum)..
Arcane Singularity: Increased Activation Team to 2 seconds (up from 1 second).
Arcane Singularity: Now can Affect up to 8 targets (down from 15).
Affect 10 targets. And activation time 1 second.
Control Wizard: Eye of the Storm: ICD reduced to 25 seconds (down from 90 seconds)
Do not place ICD in the class feature is the unique advantage of SS CW, only decrease your chance of activating.
Feats: Oppressor
Cold Infusion: * REWORK * Foes deal 1/2/3/4/5% less damage for 10 seconds after being affected by Chill. This effect does not stack.
Put as CONTROL buffs. Example: Incresce the duration of Chill effects 2/4/6/8/10%. This effect does not stack.
Controlled Momentum: * REWORK * After using the Power Control nearby allies deal 1/2/3/4/5% more damage for 6 seconds. This effect does not stack.
Allies deal 2/4/6/8/10% more damage for 10 seconds. This effect does not stack.
Shatter Strike: * REWORK * When you freeze the target They are afflicted by Shattered is 10 seconds. Shattered foes have a chance When taking damage to be stunned for 5 seconds (1 second on players) and take up to 5% of Max HP damage in their (max 300% weapon damage). This effect consumes Shatter. Additionally, control your powers deal 100% of your weapon damage against targets immune control and Chill lasts 2.5 seconds longer.
Control Wizard: Chill: While the foe is affected by the Stun from or Shattered Shatter Strike They can not be afflicted with stacks of Chill.
Control Wizard: Shatter Strike: Will the players improperly longer hold for 5 seconds or be immune to break CC effects.
OK, my suggestion is to make this paragon focus only the control, with some damage buffs (based in chill) for CW and the party.
This change will be for next dungeons or just keep doing CN?
Feats: Thaumaturge
Malevolent Surge: This feat now grants 1/2/3/4/5% (down from 2/4/6/8/10%) and no longer stacks. This feat now lasts 15 seconds (up from 4).
15% maximum. No longer stacks.
Destructive Wizardry (Paragon: Storm): This feat now grants 1/2/3/4/5% (down from 2/4/5/8/10%) bonus damage. This feat requires the longer you strike at least 2 targets, but now requires you fully charge Storm Pillar. This feat now lasts 20 seconds (up from 6).
No need REWORK , leave it as is.
Elemental Empowerment: * REWORK * Dealing Cold damage has to 3/6/9/12/15% chance to apply Creeping Frost. Creeping Frost deals 85% of your weapon damage as cold damage every 3 seconds for 18 seconds. Dealing Arcane damage has to 3/6/9/12/15% chance to apply Warped Magics. Warped Magics deals 50% of your weapon damage the Arcane damage every 3 seconds for 18 seconds. Warped Magics ignores half of the target's resistance. These effects of not stack.
This feat would be better in the opressor tree. Come back as it was before.
Assailing Force: * REWORK * Dealing damage to foes has a chance to grant you Assailant. When you have your next encounter Assailant power deals 10% of the target's max HP unresistable the damage (max 500% weapon damage). This will only target one Affect When used in an AoE.
Put this last feat as a PERSONAL DPS BUFF, Thaumaturge must be the DPS tree CW ( i guess).
In short: Thaumaturge need to have a Increases damage output by about 30 ~ 40% greater than the Oppressor tree.
New proposed changes make it a viable choice once again. Theoretically, people with vorpal enchants or low crit chance should see greater than 10% increase in their DPS.
Renegade Tree
Was thinking of ideas to make this tree enticing. The vision I have is a mage wrapped in a lightning shield, doing close range damage. To make this enticing, I would recommend the following.
Chaos Magic
Completely change this. Change it to Chaos Shield, where your Shield spell wraps you in a maelstrom of lightning, dealing a little AE damage and slowing those around you (within 15') by 10% for 3 seconds. This would breathe life into the Shield spell. Provide some control to grouped monsters. You can modify the damage of this spell to bring the Renegade wizard inline with other feat trees. And it would add a counter to the perma stealth TR.
Masterful Arcane Theft
Sudden Storm now adds 1/2/3/4/5 % Lifesteal for 10 seconds. Since the Renegade wizard is most effective in close range, they could use more Life Steal.
Nightmare Wizardry
One issue that I see is that there are no specific cross class synergies with feats. With the changes to Steal Time and the GF Marks, I would propose this. Steal Time now adds a more persistent Mark (lasts 1/2/3/4/6 seconds) to any monster within 10' of the GF. This would trigger off the GF, give everyone combat advantage to the monsters and provide a direct synergy with the GF. I would move this feat to Tier 3 so it is not as easily obtained.
As comparison: A TR (the only other class I play, so I can't make any other comparison) has also feats to reduce targets damage by 5% - Distracting Knife and Expert Sneak. But both are paired with a second effect. This feat isn't. So I'd either suggest to increase the % or replace it.
Feedback: I like the idea, but it should effect more spells. Like Chill Strike (also an control spell, and Oppressors are supposed to be the best controllers), i.e. But therefore reducing the seconds. And maybe even a short ICD of like 5 - 10 seconds.
Feedback: I'd suggest a shorter ICD, but therefore the active time like now on live. Like i.e.:
"This power now has an internal cooldown of 12 seconds. Base Duration stays at 2. Duration increase per rank stays at .5."
It's more a personal thing, but I like "3 seconds every 12 seconds" more than "6 seconds every 25 seconds" (both have an uptime of ~25%, if my math isn't off).
Feedback general (for now):
- Like many others, I disagree with the longer animations. Rather increase the cooldown (encounters) or lower the damage (Magic Missile).
- I agree with clearer tooltips. ICDs, chances to proc, if a spell is a control spell, AoE, single target, ...
They didn't nerf it or change the meta at all...
Ran a Castle Never run with two CW's a GWF and an Archery HR. The results were dismaying. Although the Archery HR was able to deal the most damage, the margin was not by much from me to the Oppressor CW's. What was also dismaying is that the GWF destroyer put out over 5 million less damage than the two CW's which means now that the CW will still be king, the HR steals the GWF's thunder and the new meta will be 3CW and an HR.If the purpose of these changes is indeed a balance pass than it isn't going to work. The one thing that should be done which would help party diversity immensely is disable stacking effects from the same classes. That and get rid of the x button tracking charts.
Gloom level 60 Control Wizard
Dusk level 60 Trickster Rogue
Dawn level 60 Devoted Cleric
Eclipse level 60 Hunter Ranger
Wrath level 60 Great Weapon Fighter
Jinx level 60 Scourge Warlock
Control Wizard: Shard of the Endless Avalanche: This power now prones NPCs for 3.5 seconds (up from 1) and prones players for 2.25 seconds (up from 1).
Thank you all for your continued feedback.
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer