As far as block goes, I have increased the duration substantially internally (which by proxy makes all stamina restore options far more potent) so before we make any more block adjustments I want to see how those work out. Those should be in with all the other changes that hit this week (again, barring things going wrong).
As far as the reason we don't want to go with unlimited block that scales up and down in potency (which was one of the prototypes we did try internally) was because of the difficult interaction with healers. The new block allows for more healer interactions by letting some degree of consistent damage through while still making your damage resistance matter. The block being a consistent value means that the Guardian Fighter can control that incoming damage and it is something measured and consistent for both the healer and the guardian.
Old block was also directly opposed to this because it was quite spiky in nature. So the new block system (with the substantially lengthened stamina duration) should give a much finer degree of control to that damage flow.
As far as block goes, I have increased the duration substantially internally (which by proxy makes all stamina restore options far more potent) so before we make any more block adjustments I want to see how those work out. Those should be in with all the other changes that hit this week (again, barring things going wrong).
As far as the reason we don't want to go with unlimited block that scales up and down in potency (which was one of the prototypes we did try internally) was because of the difficult interaction with healers. The new block allows for more healer interactions by letting some degree of consistent damage through while still making your damage resistance matter. The block being a consistent value means that the Guardian Fighter can control that incoming damage and it is something measured and consistent for both the healer and the guardian.
Old block was also directly opposed to this because it was quite spiky in nature. So the new block system (with the substantially lengthened stamina duration) should give a much finer degree of control to that damage flow.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
I still have reserves here but would love to give it a try. I hope significantly means SIGNIFICANTLY because that 5 seconds HAMSTER didnt cut it AT ALL.
Hey all, we are adding another pair of Guardian Fighter changes to the upcoming patch. We do want Guardians to deal a little more damage personally without major overhauls to power ratios or weapon damage because those things factor into many different places in combat, so we are making another change to mark to facilitate more damage. Additionally we are reworking Reckless Attacker to make more sense with the new block and be much easier to comprehend and use.
Mark: Targets who are Marked have -20% damage resistance against strikes from the Guardian Fighter. Targets who are marked still have -8% damage resistance against the Guardian Fighter's allies.
Feats: Conqueror: Reckless Attacker: *Rework* When struck in combat you gain Reckless Attacker. Reckless Attacker increases your damage by 5% and Critical chance by 2%. Reckless Attacker lasts 10 seconds and stacks up to 5 times.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
Love the tab idea thanks for buffing that but im not sure about the reckless attacker change, that means my power is halved and i have to take dmg to deal more ? not sure how its gonna work but at least when our shield is broken our power isn't halved then also can anyone post the dmg difference with 5 stacks of this compared to the old reckless attacker please ?
Thanks for your posts and effort crush, i am looking forward to some of the changes now
Hey all, we are adding another pair of Guardian Fighter changes to the upcoming patch. We do want Guardians to deal a little more damage personally without major overhauls to power ratios or weapon damage because those things factor into many different places in combat, so we are making another change to mark to facilitate more damage. Additionally we are reworking Reckless Attacker to make more sense with the new block and be much easier to comprehend and use.
Mark: Targets who are Marked have -20% damage resistance against strikes from the Guardian Fighter. Targets who are marked still have -8% damage resistance against the Guardian Fighter's allies.
Feats: Conqueror: Reckless Attacker: *Rework* When struck in combat you gain Reckless Attacker. Reckless Attacker increases your damage by 5% and Critical chance by 2%. Reckless Attacker lasts 10 seconds and stacks up to 5 times.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
Thanks a lot , 1 thing that I want to know is if supposedly we should be blocking more than the 80% of the total damage?, for example, if I receive just the 40% of the total damage then I should be blocking 92% of the damage (because I would be receiving 40% * .2 = 8%), but in the preview I couldn't block more than the 80% with the guard up (at least that was the last time I tested my GF in preview).
Old block was also directly opposed to this because it was quite spiky in nature. So the new block system (with the substantially lengthened stamina duration) should give a much finer degree of control to that damage flow.
the old system wasn't spiky, more incoming dmg would lose you more guard meter, the spiky part is how the dmg comes in,
dmg spikes are when mobs all hit at the same time or multiple large hits hit you at the same time, but a time based block doesn't helps here at all since you cant predict or see when all mobs attack, so now its a question of luck if you did guard in the moment where all mobs hit you or not.
the better interaction with the healer you speak of seems strange too, while its true that he can see that your guard will be up for ~8s, if you guard without breaks, its doesn't makes it easier to decide when to heal, normally you heal when the tanks hp drops low or you heal preventive, this isn't changed at all with the new system, since you dont know when the tank blocks or fails to block.
pls try a Protector path build with the old and new System, where you build everything around guarding and doing dmg while guarding, with the old system you could keep the guard up and only lower it to cast skills even in epic dungeons.
this makes Balanced Shield Fighter useless:
now you only guard to block initial pull dmg and large visible attacks, maybe 4-7 atwills per pull
Hey all, we are adding another pair of Guardian Fighter changes to the upcoming patch. We do want Guardians to deal a little more damage personally without major overhauls to power ratios or weapon damage because those things factor into many different places in combat, so we are making another change to mark to facilitate more damage. Additionally we are reworking Reckless Attacker to make more sense with the new block and be much easier to comprehend and use.
Mark: Targets who are Marked have -20% damage resistance against strikes from the Guardian Fighter. Targets who are marked still have -8% damage resistance against the Guardian Fighter's allies.
Feats: Conqueror: Reckless Attacker: *Rework* When struck in combat you gain Reckless Attacker. Reckless Attacker increases your damage by 5% and Critical chance by 2%. Reckless Attacker lasts 10 seconds and stacks up to 5 times.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
HOLY HAMSTER!!! You gave us some damage... So I can get 20% more damage and 10% crit? thats nice!
Does mark and reckless attacker stack?
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Hey all, we are adding another pair of Guardian Fighter changes to the upcoming patch. We do want Guardians to deal a little more damage personally without major overhauls to power ratios or weapon damage because those things factor into many different places in combat, so we are making another change to mark to facilitate more damage. Additionally we are reworking Reckless Attacker to make more sense with the new block and be much easier to comprehend and use.
Mark: Targets who are Marked have -20% damage resistance against strikes from the Guardian Fighter. Targets who are marked still have -8% damage resistance against the Guardian Fighter's allies.
Feats: Conqueror: Reckless Attacker: *Rework* When struck in combat you gain Reckless Attacker. Reckless Attacker increases your damage by 5% and Critical chance by 2%. Reckless Attacker lasts 10 seconds and stacks up to 5 times.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
I need to see this in action first. But, just by reading the rework to reckless attacker, I'm not convinced this is a good change. Again, I need to see it in action first before I can say for sure...
I like the mark change though.
Maid ClariS lvl 60 GF ClariS lvl 60 DC
0
klangeddinMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 882Arc User
Hey all, we are adding another pair of Guardian Fighter changes to the upcoming patch. We do want Guardians to deal a little more damage personally without major overhauls to power ratios or weapon damage because those things factor into many different places in combat, so we are making another change to mark to facilitate more damage. Additionally we are reworking Reckless Attacker to make more sense with the new block and be much easier to comprehend and use.
Mark: Targets who are Marked have -20% damage resistance against strikes from the Guardian Fighter. Targets who are marked still have -8% damage resistance against the Guardian Fighter's allies.
Feats: Conqueror: Reckless Attacker: *Rework* When struck in combat you gain Reckless Attacker. Reckless Attacker increases your damage by 5% and Critical chance by 2%. Reckless Attacker lasts 10 seconds and stacks up to 5 times.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
It's nice to see that Conqueror is getting some attention, but what about Protector and Tactician line?
Is there really nothing in store for those?
Especially Protector, I think it's gonna lag behind a lot compared to the other two lines if the changes of the next patch go through like this.
In fact, I could say that the new Reckless Attacker may end up making Conqueror a better tanking line than Protector and Tactician.
Conqueror cap feat reckless attacker is much better than other options, the others should be buffed as well to bring them to its level.
A suggestion for tactician: AP generation from all kinds of hp loss, doesn't matter if holding shield up or not.
0
zhaofuoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 129Bounty Hunter
edited July 2014
Mark: Targets who are Marked have -20% damage resistance against strikes from the Guardian Fighter. Targets who are marked still have -8% damage resistance against the Guardian Fighter's allies.
Which Mark are we talking about? Focus Mark from our TAB or Mark that is generated from our TR and ET
Feats: Conqueror: Reckless Attacker: *Rework* When struck in combat you gain Reckless Attacker. Reckless Attacker increases your damage by 5% and Critical chance by 2%. Reckless Attacker lasts 10 seconds and stacks up to 5 times.
This needs further testing - i don't agree with 25% overall damage increase but with the 10% crit chance is too good to say no, but again this still needs further testing
Conquerer can get to 6.5k Power (epic set, no BI gear) by my approximation. So compared to the 32% estimate you lose ~7% DPS but gain enhanced Mark feature and the ability to use your block meter. Nice tradeoff especially in PVP.
Hey all, we are adding another pair of Guardian Fighter changes to the upcoming patch. We do want Guardians to deal a little more damage personally without major overhauls to power ratios or weapon damage because those things factor into many different places in combat, so we are making another change to mark to facilitate more damage. Additionally we are reworking Reckless Attacker to make more sense with the new block and be much easier to comprehend and use.
Mark: Targets who are Marked have -20% damage resistance against strikes from the Guardian Fighter. Targets who are marked still have -8% damage resistance against the Guardian Fighter's allies.
Feats: Conqueror: Reckless Attacker: *Rework* When struck in combat you gain Reckless Attacker. Reckless Attacker increases your damage by 5% and Critical chance by 2%. Reckless Attacker lasts 10 seconds and stacks up to 5 times.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
This is great to see! I will be gladly testing a lot more with all of the coming changes on the test shard. It will be nice having to not stack power to get the most out of my capstone now.
As far as block goes, I have increased the duration substantially internally (which by proxy makes all stamina restore options far more potent) so before we make any more block adjustments I want to see how those work out. Those should be in with all the other changes that hit this week (again, barring things going wrong).
As far as the reason we don't want to go with unlimited block that scales up and down in potency (which was one of the prototypes we did try internally) was because of the difficult interaction with healers. The new block allows for more healer interactions by letting some degree of consistent damage through while still making your damage resistance matter. The block being a consistent value means that the Guardian Fighter can control that incoming damage and it is something measured and consistent for both the healer and the guardian.
Old block was also directly opposed to this because it was quite spiky in nature. So the new block system (with the substantially lengthened stamina duration) should give a much finer degree of control to that damage flow.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
ill hold my reservations on this till i get a chance to try it our sounds decent enough i do hope when you say substantially you mean by a lot
also the reckless attacker is a good change
now can the protector capstone and tree get some love it's still miles behind conqueror and tactician the capstone is very very very very lackluster
maybe some damage boost to the protector capstone conqueror has reckless attacker tactician has action point gain for daily spam protector's needs love pretty bad.
Guarded Assault the damage reflect is so amazingly low that using this over almost anything is a horrible move. it needs to be brought up more to coincide with the new block mechanic and to actually make it a viable class talent as it is right now its just a wasted graphic on a talent tree also it does not proc weapon enchants.
Hey all, we are adding another pair of Guardian Fighter changes to the upcoming patch. We do want Guardians to deal a little more damage personally without major overhauls to power ratios or weapon damage because those things factor into many different places in combat, so we are making another change to mark to facilitate more damage. Additionally we are reworking Reckless Attacker to make more sense with the new block and be much easier to comprehend and use.
Mark: Targets who are Marked have -20% damage resistance against strikes from the Guardian Fighter. Targets who are marked still have -8% damage resistance against the Guardian Fighter's allies.
Feats: Conqueror: Reckless Attacker: *Rework* When struck in combat you gain Reckless Attacker. Reckless Attacker increases your damage by 5% and Critical chance by 2%. Reckless Attacker lasts 10 seconds and stacks up to 5 times.
Hey all, we are adding another pair of Guardian Fighter changes to the upcoming patch. We do want Guardians to deal a little more damage personally without major overhauls to power ratios or weapon damage because those things factor into many different places in combat, so we are making another change to mark to facilitate more damage. Additionally we are reworking Reckless Attacker to make more sense with the new block and be much easier to comprehend and use.
Mark: Targets who are Marked have -20% damage resistance against strikes from the Guardian Fighter. Targets who are marked still have -8% damage resistance against the Guardian Fighter's allies.
Feats: Conqueror: Reckless Attacker: *Rework* When struck in combat you gain Reckless Attacker. Reckless Attacker increases your damage by 5% and Critical chance by 2%. Reckless Attacker lasts 10 seconds and stacks up to 5 times.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
Honestly Chris you guys need to stop taking the easy way out, no disrespect I do appreciate how time consuming it is to make new content and under a time schedule but buffing the Tab mark is just the easy way out and lack of imagination and dare I say even disrespectful for the GF community IMO.
GF have the worst and the least imaginative mechanic Tab.
TR go in Stealth and receives another affect to the ability he uses to get out of stealth.
CW get another ability slotted and with an added feature to that slotted ability.
DC gets and extra affect to his entire slotted abilities.
HR gets 2 abilities per one ability slotted.
GWF gets extra attack speed, damage reduction and CC immunity.
What dose the GF get 8% to opposing enemy's DR for his party and 20% to opposing enemy's DR for himself marking opposing enemy, big woopty doo.
Even your consideration why to buff the Mark is driven by picking the easy way out, "We do want Guardians to deal a little more damage personally without major overhauls to power ratios or weapon damage because those things factor into many different places in combat".
I know its a pain, but if you're really committed to the game and to the GF community you will just have to go through all that code and fix what every needs fixing to scale the damage up, and for the love of god find a better and more imaginative Tab for the GF rather then the current one, some thing that will give our abilities another affect like 4 out of the 5 other classes have, or make us put our shield on our backs (like when we are out of combat) and in turn make us more nimble (kind of like GWF unstoppable) I don't know, it just the things I think of from the top of my head.
This community is so used to getting the sharp end of the stick so when they get a minor positive change to the Tab they get all excited but they're forgetting they deserve better.
This isn't meant to be a rant, just an eye opener and prescription change you guys need to get, just as a reminder the last time you guys bluntly picked the easy way out, switching around between GF and GWF paragons it turned out to be one of the game's major unbalance which affects we still suffer from to this day. so please consider this when you decide if you want to fix the GF problematic class by its roots or to put in another "patch" that the community will realize after the release that it just didn't cut it yet again.
Hey all, we are adding another pair of Guardian Fighter changes to the upcoming patch. We do want Guardians to deal a little more damage personally without major overhauls to power ratios or weapon damage because those things factor into many different places in combat, so we are making another change to mark to facilitate more damage. Additionally we are reworking Reckless Attacker to make more sense with the new block and be much easier to comprehend and use.
Mark: Targets who are Marked have -20% damage resistance against strikes from the Guardian Fighter. Targets who are marked still have -8% damage resistance against the Guardian Fighter's allies.
Feats: Conqueror: Reckless Attacker: *Rework* When struck in combat you gain Reckless Attacker. Reckless Attacker increases your damage by 5% and Critical chance by 2%. Reckless Attacker lasts 10 seconds and stacks up to 5 times.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
I see one problem: what if i don't be struck? I will deal less dmg than now because i lost half of my current power. In my opinion better will be if you get:
When you damaging a foe in combat you gain Reckless Attacker. Reckless Attacker increases your damage by 5% and Critical chance by 2%. Reckless Attacker lasts 10 seconds and stacks up to 5 times.
Second thing is the new Block. I think this my by good but you must add one thing: reduce stamina only when block is blocking something (dmg, cc, aoe) because know i lose all my stamina without any effect and i for example can't fight any more with TR in cloud from Smoke Bomb.
I agree wit nuitrari our Tab is the worst and is useless most of time.
This Mark bonus will be stacks with Armor Penetration or instead and I can resign with my all Armor Penetration right now?
I am not sure this will give us a damage boost. Could someone please check the maths?
Current: Let's say at the moment you stack 3.2k power. So 3.2k extra power (most of the time). Seem to remember hearing somewhere that with the new power reword we get about 1% extra damage per 160 power. 3200 / 160 = 20% extra damage.
New: 5% extra damage and 2% crit per hit. stacking 5 times. So this would be 25% extra damage and 10% crit, but only if you get hit 5 times within 10 secs. Those 5 hits don't happen instantly so lets say after second or two. in those 2 secs you will have used your first rotation of encounters, so they dont benefit, and then you need to wait till they have refresh by which time your 10 secs are finished.
Also what happens after the 10 sec ICD? Is this a ICD per stack or is this 10 secs as of first stack? Will all stacks wipe after 10 secs from first stack?
On first viewing, it looks like it is a buff, but then when I thnk about it I am not sure, maybe like for like? But we needed a significant buff, so for me they need to increase those percentages and make sure the ICD is per stack.
It is difficult to really compare properly because of the different mechanics. (How often does our shield go down and by how much? How long before we get the stacks?)
But I am not as enthusiastic as most people, maybe I am wrong.
Mark: Targets who are Marked have -20% damage resistance against strikes from the Guardian Fighter. Targets who are marked still have -8% damage resistance against the Guardian Fighter's allies.
Well, I don't quite understand how -20% damage resistance shall give the GF more damage in PvE? Assuming opponents do not have more than 24% damage resistance in PvE GFs easily mitigate that with their current Resistance Ignored value (from ArP and DEX). What's the point then of having additional resistance mitigation? AFAIK damage resistance cannot get negative.
I'd appreciate it if you could explain how the additional -20% will help GFs in doing more damage in PvE.
0
stagger38Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 28Arc User
edited July 2014
Regarding the -20% DR on marked targets for the GF, -8% for party. Does this also apply to targets with the lesser mark (eg: Threatening Rush)?
And could the Protector feats please see some buffs alongside the improved stamina. Currently the tree isn't particularly useful.
POINT 1) NEW RECKLESS ATTACKER is a pretty nice DPS boost ASSUMING it works like the old Stalwart Bulwark set did (each time you were hit gained 5% of HP as Power, stacks 5 times lasted 8 sec per stack). I ran this BOTH in PVE and PVP many times and it was NOT hard to keep up honestly. This new capstone seems like almost identical to the old set bonus but with crit AND 2 seconds more for each stack.
POINT 2) Now that Mark gives combat advantage damage to allies, ALOT of people will be looking for GFs in dungeons. Now with mark giving the GF 20% more damage, the ability for perma mark to be on someone(tab) AND this DPS boost from Reckless, GFs wont be so much a drag to the group as they are now. GFs will enhance the damage output for a group and with the "hard taunt" they have added to some attacks, I think a GF has a viable place in groups. Now if you have 16k+ GS players speed run or farm running CN (a dungeon they significantly outgear) you might just find they run with a GWF "offtank" who can spit out more damage. But as far as GFs being desired in a group, I think they definitely have a place now.
POINT 3) GETTING Reckless attacker stacks isnt hard either, someone mentioned they cant be "front line" with such low run speed. Well to that point I would say You have Lunge Strike which can close the gap significantly. If your party is also smart, they will let you rush in first and enforced threat everything BEFORE the CW CCs since then the party has cmbat advantage + mark damage there. If you enforced threat, you will have instant agro on all mobs and VERY often will get hit about 3 times+, thats 3 stacks right there. Seeing as they last 10 seconds, get hit once every ten seconds and youll keep the stacks up.
POINT 4) Would I like to see Prot/Tact trees get love too? OFCOURSE! But considering we havnt even tested these changes yet lets see what happens there FIRST then we can address other issues.
Look - lets be realistic, the DEVs frankly got module 4 forced on them. MY opinion and assumption is they probably wanted to do more for module 3, but when the word came down they had to release mod 4 on HAMSTER date, they probably rushed mod 3 as fast as possible. Right now I guarantee they are racing against the clock to get all the new CONTENT done for the module and I am also guessing it will be the biggest one yet! While they have mentioned they want to re-tool some classes, they are also BUILDING a new class and BUILDING new content ( IHOPE MORE PVE DUNGEONS! REAL ONES!) So while we can demand all these changes (as we all know I do LOL!) Being realistic, they have to pick the TOP priority issues for the classes.
Frankly, the biggest issues with GF were a lack of damage and a lack of efficient block meter and lack of party utility. IT SEEMS like these steps are moving hte the right direction IN COMBINATION with changes to CW/GWF as well. CWs got their damage MASSIVELY toned down, GWFs got their tankiness MASSIVELY toned down so in a NORMAL GS appropriate group I can see GFs having a place. And in PVP (assuming they increased the stamina block SIGNIFICANTLY) I can see a place for GF in PVP again, especially with some DPS buffs.
For PVP, GWFs will not be able to counter permas anymore, I have yet to see when they fix the heal stacking for HRs how that will look but IMO it seems like one of the best classes to face a perma will be a GF. Block wont be eaten by flurry, GFs have the highest HP now thus the highest regen, and SoS wil rip a TRs face off. We also still get to keep our Prone on Bull Rush which will REALLY help versus TRs. So that MAY be the new meta - send the GF on the perma, who knows.
POINT 2) Now that Mark gives combat advantage damage to allies, ALOT of people will be looking for GFs in dungeons. Now with mark giving the GF 20% more damage, the ability for perma mark to be on someone(tab) AND this DPS boost from Reckless, GFs wont be so much a drag to the group as they are now. GFs will enhance the damage output for a group and with the "hard taunt" they have added to some attacks, I think a GF has a viable place in groups. Now if you have 16k+ GS players speed run or farm running CN (a dungeon they significantly outgear) you might just find they run with a GWF "offtank" who can spit out more damage. But as far as GFs being desired in a group, I think they definitely have a place now.
Hasn't mark always done that? Its always given a 8% damage boost to the targets and I've always assumed it was for everyone attacking it.
Hasn't mark always done that? Its always given a 8% damage boost to the targets and I've always assumed it was for everyone attacking it.
Its always given 8% -DR to the target thus equals MORE than 8% dmg boost actually and yes for ALL party members, but NOW it also adds combat advantage damage - which it didnt before, and NOW also increases GFs damage by 20% instead of 8%. The only thing I DONT think it does is give GFs combat advantage damage...
Its always given 8% -DR to the target thus equals MORE than 8% dmg boost actually and yes for ALL party members, but NOW it also adds combat advantage damage - which it didnt before, and NOW also increases GFs damage by 20% instead of 8%. The only thing I DONT think it does is give GFs combat advantage damage...
It does give the Guardian Fighter Combat Advantage as well. More precisely it actually causes the target to have Combat Disadvantage, which means everyone gets the benefit of Combat Advantage on them.
Additionally we have identified a bug in the block math that is causing it to behave improperly on preview. Currently we have a resistance cap that is clamped to 80% damage resistance, and the way block adds increased damage resistance is supposed to work after the resistance that is affected by this cap, but it is currently being clamped at the same time. Effectively what this means is that holding block down on preview puts you at the resistance cap in most cases, but doesn't work as intended as far as high DR values still being worth having. While we would like to fix this immediately, it will be a week or two before we can get this fix to Preview. In the meantime I would still like if Guardians would try the new block duration and feel of the system overall in dungeon runs (if you are taking too much damage to survive them, this is probably why). If you are not taking too much damage, let us know so we can tweak the new resistance correctly before it heads out to you guys.
buffing reckless attacker pretty much guarentees the non usefulness of protector/tactician the other paths for guardian fighter just dont hold up to conquerors capstone with this change in a dungeon with 100% uptime on stacks makes it a million times better than protectors capstone and maybe like 50% better than tacticians. the other 2 capstones need an increase to be brought in line. guardian fighters should have a choice on what path they choose but why choose protector or tactian this is pigeon holeing us into conqueror path. protectors capstone needs a complete re-work the capstone just doesnt work very well
dont get me wrong i like the new change and im sure all you other guys do to but this doesnt leave much room for choices in feat paths just sayin.
Comments
Yes.
As far as block goes, I have increased the duration substantially internally (which by proxy makes all stamina restore options far more potent) so before we make any more block adjustments I want to see how those work out. Those should be in with all the other changes that hit this week (again, barring things going wrong).
As far as the reason we don't want to go with unlimited block that scales up and down in potency (which was one of the prototypes we did try internally) was because of the difficult interaction with healers. The new block allows for more healer interactions by letting some degree of consistent damage through while still making your damage resistance matter. The block being a consistent value means that the Guardian Fighter can control that incoming damage and it is something measured and consistent for both the healer and the guardian.
Old block was also directly opposed to this because it was quite spiky in nature. So the new block system (with the substantially lengthened stamina duration) should give a much finer degree of control to that damage flow.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
And with reckless attacker i dont HAVE to enchant/equip +power anymore.
Now we just need some changes to protector/tactician capstone to make them more desirable
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
I still have reserves here but would love to give it a try. I hope significantly means SIGNIFICANTLY because that 5 seconds HAMSTER didnt cut it AT ALL.
Love the tab idea thanks for buffing that but im not sure about the reckless attacker change, that means my power is halved and i have to take dmg to deal more ? not sure how its gonna work but at least when our shield is broken our power isn't halved then
Thanks for your posts and effort crush, i am looking forward to some of the changes now
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Thanks a lot
the old system wasn't spiky, more incoming dmg would lose you more guard meter, the spiky part is how the dmg comes in,
dmg spikes are when mobs all hit at the same time or multiple large hits hit you at the same time, but a time based block doesn't helps here at all since you cant predict or see when all mobs attack, so now its a question of luck if you did guard in the moment where all mobs hit you or not.
the better interaction with the healer you speak of seems strange too, while its true that he can see that your guard will be up for ~8s, if you guard without breaks, its doesn't makes it easier to decide when to heal, normally you heal when the tanks hp drops low or you heal preventive, this isn't changed at all with the new system, since you dont know when the tank blocks or fails to block.
pls try a Protector path build with the old and new System, where you build everything around guarding and doing dmg while guarding, with the old system you could keep the guard up and only lower it to cast skills even in epic dungeons.
this makes Balanced Shield Fighter useless:
now you only guard to block initial pull dmg and large visible attacks, maybe 4-7 atwills per pull
HOLY HAMSTER!!! You gave us some damage... So I can get 20% more damage and 10% crit? thats nice!
Does mark and reckless attacker stack?
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
I need to see this in action first. But, just by reading the rework to reckless attacker, I'm not convinced this is a good change. Again, I need to see it in action first before I can say for sure...
I like the mark change though.
ClariS lvl 60 DC
It's nice to see that Conqueror is getting some attention, but what about Protector and Tactician line?
Is there really nothing in store for those?
Especially Protector, I think it's gonna lag behind a lot compared to the other two lines if the changes of the next patch go through like this.
In fact, I could say that the new Reckless Attacker may end up making Conqueror a better tanking line than Protector and Tactician.
Also still not fully sure about taking 20% dmg while blocking, i really cant see me every liking this because it seems a bit to nerfed to me.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
i like the reckless change though. we dont have to save our SHIFT to save our damage now.
we have to be in combat to gain damage which makes sense.
good changes. it is going to raise us to the other classes level in pvp and pve.
it is also good to reduce the foes damage resistance to our allies. it will make us more desirable in pve groups.
The only change is in respect to Guardian Fighters gaining additional benefits from this mark.
That is why good Guardian Fighters still marked in PvP.
A suggestion for tactician: AP generation from all kinds of hp loss, doesn't matter if holding shield up or not.
Which Mark are we talking about? Focus Mark from our TAB or Mark that is generated from our TR and ET
This needs further testing - i don't agree with 25% overall damage increase but with the 10% crit chance is too good to say no, but again this still needs further testing
Conquerer can get to 6.5k Power (epic set, no BI gear) by my approximation. So compared to the 32% estimate you lose ~7% DPS but gain enhanced Mark feature and the ability to use your block meter. Nice tradeoff especially in PVP.
I never used much guard in PVE though.
This is great to see! I will be gladly testing a lot more with all of the coming changes on the test shard. It will be nice having to not stack power to get the most out of my capstone now.
ill hold my reservations on this till i get a chance to try it our sounds decent enough i do hope when you say substantially you mean by a lot
also the reckless attacker is a good change
now can the protector capstone and tree get some love it's still miles behind conqueror and tactician the capstone is very very very very lackluster
maybe some damage boost to the protector capstone conqueror has reckless attacker tactician has action point gain for daily spam protector's needs love pretty bad.
Guarded Assault the damage reflect is so amazingly low that using this over almost anything is a horrible move. it needs to be brought up more to coincide with the new block mechanic and to actually make it a viable class talent as it is right now its just a wasted graphic on a talent tree also it does not proc weapon enchants.
The King Approves.
Thank you Sir Gentleman of Crush.
*pulls his vorpal out and dusts it off*
Honestly Chris you guys need to stop taking the easy way out, no disrespect I do appreciate how time consuming it is to make new content and under a time schedule but buffing the Tab mark is just the easy way out and lack of imagination and dare I say even disrespectful for the GF community IMO.
GF have the worst and the least imaginative mechanic Tab.
TR go in Stealth and receives another affect to the ability he uses to get out of stealth.
CW get another ability slotted and with an added feature to that slotted ability.
DC gets and extra affect to his entire slotted abilities.
HR gets 2 abilities per one ability slotted.
GWF gets extra attack speed, damage reduction and CC immunity.
What dose the GF get 8% to opposing enemy's DR for his party and 20% to opposing enemy's DR for himself marking opposing enemy, big woopty doo.
Even your consideration why to buff the Mark is driven by picking the easy way out, "We do want Guardians to deal a little more damage personally without major overhauls to power ratios or weapon damage because those things factor into many different places in combat".
I know its a pain, but if you're really committed to the game and to the GF community you will just have to go through all that code and fix what every needs fixing to scale the damage up, and for the love of god find a better and more imaginative Tab for the GF rather then the current one, some thing that will give our abilities another affect like 4 out of the 5 other classes have, or make us put our shield on our backs (like when we are out of combat) and in turn make us more nimble (kind of like GWF unstoppable) I don't know, it just the things I think of from the top of my head.
This community is so used to getting the sharp end of the stick so when they get a minor positive change to the Tab they get all excited but they're forgetting they deserve better.
This isn't meant to be a rant, just an eye opener and prescription change you guys need to get, just as a reminder the last time you guys bluntly picked the easy way out, switching around between GF and GWF paragons it turned out to be one of the game's major unbalance which affects we still suffer from to this day. so please consider this when you decide if you want to fix the GF problematic class by its roots or to put in another "patch" that the community will realize after the release that it just didn't cut it yet again.
I see one problem: what if i don't be struck? I will deal less dmg than now because i lost half of my current power. In my opinion better will be if you get:
When you damaging a foe in combat you gain Reckless Attacker. Reckless Attacker increases your damage by 5% and Critical chance by 2%. Reckless Attacker lasts 10 seconds and stacks up to 5 times.
Second thing is the new Block. I think this my by good but you must add one thing: reduce stamina only when block is blocking something (dmg, cc, aoe) because know i lose all my stamina without any effect and i for example can't fight any more with TR in cloud from Smoke Bomb.
I agree wit nuitrari our Tab is the worst and is useless most of time.
This Mark bonus will be stacks with Armor Penetration or instead and I can resign with my all Armor Penetration right now?
Current: Let's say at the moment you stack 3.2k power. So 3.2k extra power (most of the time). Seem to remember hearing somewhere that with the new power reword we get about 1% extra damage per 160 power. 3200 / 160 = 20% extra damage.
New: 5% extra damage and 2% crit per hit. stacking 5 times. So this would be 25% extra damage and 10% crit, but only if you get hit 5 times within 10 secs. Those 5 hits don't happen instantly so lets say after second or two. in those 2 secs you will have used your first rotation of encounters, so they dont benefit, and then you need to wait till they have refresh by which time your 10 secs are finished.
Also what happens after the 10 sec ICD? Is this a ICD per stack or is this 10 secs as of first stack? Will all stacks wipe after 10 secs from first stack?
On first viewing, it looks like it is a buff, but then when I thnk about it I am not sure, maybe like for like? But we needed a significant buff, so for me they need to increase those percentages and make sure the ICD is per stack.
It is difficult to really compare properly because of the different mechanics. (How often does our shield go down and by how much? How long before we get the stacks?)
But I am not as enthusiastic as most people, maybe I am wrong.
Well, I don't quite understand how -20% damage resistance shall give the GF more damage in PvE? Assuming opponents do not have more than 24% damage resistance in PvE GFs easily mitigate that with their current Resistance Ignored value (from ArP and DEX). What's the point then of having additional resistance mitigation? AFAIK damage resistance cannot get negative.
I'd appreciate it if you could explain how the additional -20% will help GFs in doing more damage in PvE.
And could the Protector feats please see some buffs alongside the improved stamina. Currently the tree isn't particularly useful.
POINT 1) NEW RECKLESS ATTACKER is a pretty nice DPS boost ASSUMING it works like the old Stalwart Bulwark set did (each time you were hit gained 5% of HP as Power, stacks 5 times lasted 8 sec per stack). I ran this BOTH in PVE and PVP many times and it was NOT hard to keep up honestly. This new capstone seems like almost identical to the old set bonus but with crit AND 2 seconds more for each stack.
POINT 2) Now that Mark gives combat advantage damage to allies, ALOT of people will be looking for GFs in dungeons. Now with mark giving the GF 20% more damage, the ability for perma mark to be on someone(tab) AND this DPS boost from Reckless, GFs wont be so much a drag to the group as they are now. GFs will enhance the damage output for a group and with the "hard taunt" they have added to some attacks, I think a GF has a viable place in groups. Now if you have 16k+ GS players speed run or farm running CN (a dungeon they significantly outgear) you might just find they run with a GWF "offtank" who can spit out more damage. But as far as GFs being desired in a group, I think they definitely have a place now.
POINT 3) GETTING Reckless attacker stacks isnt hard either, someone mentioned they cant be "front line" with such low run speed. Well to that point I would say You have Lunge Strike which can close the gap significantly. If your party is also smart, they will let you rush in first and enforced threat everything BEFORE the CW CCs since then the party has cmbat advantage + mark damage there. If you enforced threat, you will have instant agro on all mobs and VERY often will get hit about 3 times+, thats 3 stacks right there. Seeing as they last 10 seconds, get hit once every ten seconds and youll keep the stacks up.
POINT 4) Would I like to see Prot/Tact trees get love too? OFCOURSE! But considering we havnt even tested these changes yet lets see what happens there FIRST then we can address other issues.
Look - lets be realistic, the DEVs frankly got module 4 forced on them. MY opinion and assumption is they probably wanted to do more for module 3, but when the word came down they had to release mod 4 on HAMSTER date, they probably rushed mod 3 as fast as possible. Right now I guarantee they are racing against the clock to get all the new CONTENT done for the module and I am also guessing it will be the biggest one yet! While they have mentioned they want to re-tool some classes, they are also BUILDING a new class and BUILDING new content ( IHOPE MORE PVE DUNGEONS! REAL ONES!) So while we can demand all these changes (as we all know I do LOL!) Being realistic, they have to pick the TOP priority issues for the classes.
Frankly, the biggest issues with GF were a lack of damage and a lack of efficient block meter and lack of party utility. IT SEEMS like these steps are moving hte the right direction IN COMBINATION with changes to CW/GWF as well. CWs got their damage MASSIVELY toned down, GWFs got their tankiness MASSIVELY toned down so in a NORMAL GS appropriate group I can see GFs having a place. And in PVP (assuming they increased the stamina block SIGNIFICANTLY) I can see a place for GF in PVP again, especially with some DPS buffs.
For PVP, GWFs will not be able to counter permas anymore, I have yet to see when they fix the heal stacking for HRs how that will look but IMO it seems like one of the best classes to face a perma will be a GF. Block wont be eaten by flurry, GFs have the highest HP now thus the highest regen, and SoS wil rip a TRs face off. We also still get to keep our Prone on Bull Rush which will REALLY help versus TRs. So that MAY be the new meta - send the GF on the perma, who knows.
Hasn't mark always done that? Its always given a 8% damage boost to the targets and I've always assumed it was for everyone attacking it.
Its always given 8% -DR to the target thus equals MORE than 8% dmg boost actually and yes for ALL party members, but NOW it also adds combat advantage damage - which it didnt before, and NOW also increases GFs damage by 20% instead of 8%. The only thing I DONT think it does is give GFs combat advantage damage...
It does give the Guardian Fighter Combat Advantage as well. More precisely it actually causes the target to have Combat Disadvantage, which means everyone gets the benefit of Combat Advantage on them.
Additionally we have identified a bug in the block math that is causing it to behave improperly on preview. Currently we have a resistance cap that is clamped to 80% damage resistance, and the way block adds increased damage resistance is supposed to work after the resistance that is affected by this cap, but it is currently being clamped at the same time. Effectively what this means is that holding block down on preview puts you at the resistance cap in most cases, but doesn't work as intended as far as high DR values still being worth having. While we would like to fix this immediately, it will be a week or two before we can get this fix to Preview. In the meantime I would still like if Guardians would try the new block duration and feel of the system overall in dungeon runs (if you are taking too much damage to survive them, this is probably why). If you are not taking too much damage, let us know so we can tweak the new resistance correctly before it heads out to you guys.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
buffing reckless attacker pretty much guarentees the non usefulness of protector/tactician the other paths for guardian fighter just dont hold up to conquerors capstone with this change in a dungeon with 100% uptime on stacks makes it a million times better than protectors capstone and maybe like 50% better than tacticians. the other 2 capstones need an increase to be brought in line. guardian fighters should have a choice on what path they choose but why choose protector or tactian this is pigeon holeing us into conqueror path. protectors capstone needs a complete re-work the capstone just doesnt work very well
dont get me wrong i like the new change and im sure all you other guys do to but this doesnt leave much room for choices in feat paths just sayin.