LOL stop hating already. First of all, my TR hasn't been used since mod 2 came out. I'm considering dusting it off especially for people like you though. And my apologies if I mixed up the GWF builds. I'm not Ao, just a humble player who's sick of your crying.
PS: nice sig Willie:)
Man I don't hate anyone But I hate when a perman hide TR say you nub while you run from 1vs1.
Like what suppose i do ? Keep swing till you hit my sword ? o.o
No easier than the other way around. The fact you cannot do it has nothing to do with the matter.
then what the mean of Sential beastly Defense and Destroyer beastly Offense
If You say GWF Sential is much of annoying I agree with that They should rethink about much deflect and heal But Destroyer is squish , Yes can do damage still can be killed and damage can be dodge while Tr perman hide and Sential build tankey GWF can't that my point
LOL stop hating already. First of all, my TR hasn't been used since mod 2 came out. I'm considering dusting it off especially for people like you though. And my apologies if I mixed up the GWF builds. I'm not Ao, just a humble player who's sick of your crying.
PS: nice sig Willie:)
Thanks I don't care about builds myself: I don't use them. Nothing wrong with them, just I like originality in my characters. Sure people will have advantages over me, but I believe being original gives me advantages over them too. As far as people crying, I too am a humble player sick of people crying(that's why ive played since beta, but my entries(I have multiple accounts) show much younger... I watched the forums, but didn't want to say anything until they got too annoying to ignore). Ive played EVERY character in pve and pvp since beta. You don't like a class? fine. But don't cry for the nerf bat, then when your own "OPness" gets thrown into question, don't cry "im not op, don't nerf me". Its called karma. Every class gets hurt in rotation. If you've played since beta, youd know that unstoppable has been nerfed a few times. Every class gets the bat. Cant wait for the next class to be out, then people will cry for it to be nerfed in record time, I bet too.
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
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ggyuMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Thanks I don't care about builds myself: I don't use them. Nothing wrong with them, just I like originality in my characters. Sure people will have advantages over me, but I believe being original gives me advantages over them too. As far as people crying, I too am a humble player sick of people crying(that's why ive played since beta, but my entries(I have multiple accounts) show much younger... I watched the forums, but didn't want to say anything until they got too annoying to ignore). Ive played EVERY character in pve and pvp since beta. You don't like a class? fine. But don't cry for the nerf bat, then when your own "OPness" gets thrown into question, don't cry "im not op, don't nerf me". Its called karma. Every class gets hurt in rotation. If you've played since beta, youd know that unstoppable has been nerfed a few times. Every class gets the bat. Cant wait for the next class to be out, then people will cry for it to be nerfed in record time, I bet too.
Thanks for remembering us with unstoppable Nerf How Did i forget that ?! So Yep beastly Offense Build Destroyer was less defense after unstoppable nerf
If you are crying for the nerf of TRs because of how they are now then I wish you were there back in May. That'd really give you something to cry about xD. Back in May GWFs were bad and TRs were so unstoppable that your move unstoppable should give it's name to the TRs. I mean literally lashing blade would take away half a players HP and Shocking Execution oh my god. So instead of asking for another nerf you should acknowledge how lucky you are for the devs to have brung all the classes down to the point where GWFs actually stood a chance. (Sorry If I offended anyone but if you don't believe me type in TR PVP and look for videos posted in May. Then Send a thank you message to PW. The End)
I agree nerfing the GWF is garbage when you consider all the advantages a TR has in PvP. TR can turn invisible and throw one knife at a GWF and take off half his health. Yes GWF is very strong in dungeons and skirmishes but we're lacking on the pvp side so that balances it out. From now on, I am going to consider anyone playing trickster rogue to be a crappy player who needs to have lots of handicaps in pvp in order to supplement their lack of playing skill. Its cool TR players, you need an easy class where everything kill is given to you. "OMGGG I CAN'T DO MY PERMA STEALTH BECAUSE GREAT WEAPON FIGHTERS KEEP PRONING ME!!! GOT TO BLOW UP THE FORUMS."
If you are crying for the nerf of TRs because of how they are now then I wish you were there back in May. That'd really give you something to cry about xD. Back in May GWFs were bad and TRs were so unstoppable that your move unstoppable should give it's name to the TRs. I mean literally lashing blade would take away half a players HP and Shocking Execution oh my god. So instead of asking for another nerf you should acknowledge how lucky you are for the devs to have brung all the classes down to the point where GWFs actually stood a chance. (Sorry If I offended anyone but if you don't believe me type in TR PVP and look for videos posted in May. Then Send a thank you message to PW. The End)
Oh, I know man. I don't want trs nerfed, don't want anything nerfed. But a lot of people who cry nerf wont simply adapt, they just want an easy fix for a class that they cant work around. Look at the ranger. They haven't been out that long, and already a nerf bat to their rooting, a nerf bat to what little control they have, and in mod 3, 2 of their staple abilities(split shot, fox's shift) get nerfed badly. Im waiting to see the warlock or whatever class to enter the game, with nerf cries in record time. A lot of people don't know that unstoppable has been hit at least 3 times!
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
I agree nerfing the GWF is garbage when you consider all the advantages a TR has in PvP. TR can turn invisible and throw one knife at a GWF and take off half his health. Yes GWF is very strong in dungeons and skirmishes but we're lacking on the pvp side so that balances it out. From now on, I am going to consider anyone playing trickster rogue to be a crappy player who needs to have lots of handicaps in pvp in order to supplement their lack of playing skill. Its cool TR players, you need an easy class where everything kill is given to you. "OMGGG I CAN'T DO MY PERMA STEALTH BECAUSE GREAT WEAPON FIGHTER KEEP PRONING ME!!!'
Gimme the queue and I'll start laughing. I mean a GWF complaining that a TR is a - you said and I quote - crappy player who needs to have a lot of handicaps in pvp in order to supplement their lack of playing skill...
A GWF, losing half health to one knife throw.. what did you build your GWF out of, butter?
But then again, considering the overwhelming number of crappy half-baked garbage destroyer builds with like 23k HP at lv60 with 15k+ GS, maybe you're not too far from the truth. One thing is certain -- there are a lot of trash GWFs in the game as of late, and those trash, us TRs can take out without much difficulty since the sophistication of their PvP gameplay matches that of a raging bull in a china shop.
(Or rather, the truth would be more close to that there were a lot of trash people with zero skill that only managed to get by because the GWF class was so horribly imbalanced in the first place, and then simply have been revealed for what they are after the normalization of heal/regen has hit.)
Remember this -- us TRs have been around fighting your kind and have been baptized by fire by fighting GWFs when they were nigh unkillable. Who have you GWFs have been fighting that actually offered you any challenge before the patch? CWs?
Perhaps when you die a 100 more times from that crappy gameplay, you'll at least start think of how the other great GWF players actually do play their classes.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Remember this -- us TRs have been around fighting your kind and have been baptized by fire by fighting GWFs when they were nigh unkillable. Who have you GWFs have been fighting that actually offered you any challenge before the patch? CWs?
Perhaps when you die a 100 more times from that crappy gameplay, you'll at least start think of how the other great GWF players actually do play their classes.
TRs have been on top of the PvP ladder since the start, up there with sentinel tanks. Before IV sentinels were introduced in module 2, skilled TRs were considered better in PvP, being able to kite GWFs a lot while dealing damage. Talking again about the ITC-hybrid permastealth TRs.
After module 2, with threat rush, it became a bit more difficult for TRs to kite GWFs, but skilled ones were still an equal match for a GWF.
With tenacity and healing depression, it's easier for a TR to contest a point against a GWF compared to module 2, since the GWF is 100% of the time under healing depression and the survivability of regeneration monsters has been nerfed greatly and balanced, while TRs are still able to evade most of the damage due to their nature, while dealing constant damage to the GWF. And, there's still SE being the only daily that ignores tenacity, dealing 20k damage to sentinels and much more to the other builds/ classes.
The point is: TRs have never been at a disadvantage in PvP, against any class. Your class was Always up there, with all the tools needed to fight against any class, any build. TRs used to shut every whiner with a big "learn to play", then, in module 2, they became the most active whiners. Perhaps they should stop crying and pretending their class is poor and weak, complaining about GWFs. PvP GWFs and PvP TRs have been in the past, and are even more right now, balanced.
If a TR feels like he's at a disadvantage against a GWF, then it's his problem.
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
Alot of Players in the forums are talking about How Great weapon Fighter is stronger and Over powered But they also never look at other size that Great weapon fighter not much strong as they think, Tr Can Kill Great weapon easily without even been touched.
I been notice lately that Icewind Dale Patch going to decrease GWF But still they didn't do much for TR.
Like Really cryptic enjoy how That nice Really over powered TR Keep hiding and hiding, then immune and kill other players whatever his class Except CW got a chance of killing tr.
But really Cryptic should take look at Tr gears and skill , How could they give class deflection , Hide (way long Hide) and immune ( At-wills + encounters ) , Myself as GWF Never could kill someone that play with that build at all ( Keep hiding and throwing posions blade over me then come with nice immune which followed by at-wills immune then back to hide and so on ) That really unfair.
and we can't forget that perma Hide make that TR do Dungs alone (which is bug ) and i think you like to fix bugs alot
so please Stop focus on nerfing the GWF every patch and look at that Real Over powered TR
Notice : In any other games if there Something like TR it take a skilled played to pvp with But here any nub can start playing with TR for pvp
I think the main problem is that in your reasoning this is manly a PvP game (http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?506071-Some-words-for-Devs)
It is Not !
It's mainly a Co-op PvE as most MMORPGS, you want a truly balanced PvP, try PvP games like Dota2, SC2, CS, and many other which have paid tournaments, enormous balancing efforts, ranked matchmaking and so on..
You can't deal with a perma-stealth TR, try to roll one and play with it, you will see how a prone lock and AoE kills it. You think they can solo a dungeon, try it and see how well geared DC in DPS mode outdps it.
And where is your team ?
The PvP here is not 1vs1 but a 5vs5, though you always compare your GWF 1vs1 TR, i'm sure many others can't kill your GWF 1vs1 so lets nerf your GWF even more.
There are already a pile of threads discussing how to effectively deal with permas and a pile of threads discussing the speculations on changes to the stealth mechanics that were mentioned.
So what now ? another thread to discuss lack of skill ? or start a flame war ? or perhaps lets nerf everything that some player can't handle, form Blacklake District (i'm sure someone find it difficult out there) to CN, because nerf = balance?
Or perhaps some teamwork, strategy, learning the enemy (rolling tr) and waiting for the changes that were already promised ?
I've been doing pvp almost non-stop since the newest pvp patch. On several different classes, and imho TR is the most OP'd "amateur" class in pvp. All they do is stealth, stealth, stealth. All day long...I've seen really good TR's that come in 1st using stealth hardly at all.
From my experience however, its way too easy for a fresh lvl 60 TR to compete with people that have spent alot of time on their pvp build. It's just ridiculous how you not only leave the permastealth (or to be correct "invis") alone, but you actually add a profound set bonus that gives them 30% more stealth gauge AND more dmg while stealthed?? Why not give the HR's 50 ft more distance? or GWF's 30% more unstoppable, or CW's 30% more control. You could do these things and it still wouldn't add up to the TR's ability to just vanish in thin air never to be seen until they drop a 15K crit daily on you.
Seriously Cryptic...This has gone on far too long already. Fix this invis garbage before mod 3 or you're gonna have alot of really upset players/customers.
Btw...Don't believe me devs? Try the pvp on live for yourself, 9 out of 10 matches ends with a TR that stayed invis the entire time and just capped the enemies tower. You tell me it's not the most frustrating aspect of this entire game. On any other game...This would be an exploit and it would be stopped immediately.
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millertime197933Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 124Bounty Hunter
edited April 2014
Stealth lasts 5 seconds before modifiers. Staying invis for the entire duration of a match is pretty impossible if that TR is doing anything to contribute for his team. If he is contesting a point, and you are also standing on that point, you can see the "signature" of his weapon enhancement if you look for it. A TR that builds to stay in stealth permanently has basically taken feats, powers, and allocated ability score points in areas that make him do considerably less damage. Don't confuse a dps build TR who uses stealth to close with you and unleash a big hit with a perma-stealth who basically can only run around a point and annoy you. The perma-stealth is really only a problem when stupid teams try to take him down with 3 people. They eventually do but it takes a while, no different than a GWF who is kiting around. If a TR is causing issues backcapping your point, then why don't you do the same?
I have an idea. Why don't we just give everyone no abilities, and one melee at will and one ranged at will that hits for 100 damage for every class. This 100 hundred damage cannot be modified in any way. Also everyone will be naked and have no items such as potions and artifacts to use so that everyone is equal across the board in every way. Each class can also have only 1 dodge, which will be the same dodge, that can be used every 5 seconds. Then we will have balanced PVP. I am sure even then that someone will find some way to whine about one class being more overpowered than the other. Each class has its unique abilities and I'm pretty sure overpowered has nothing to do with it as much as the person playing that toon is just a **** good player. There are plenty of TRs that are easy kills too. Learn to play. Nothing is more irritating then some 11k GS toon who has been playing since last February coming on here and whining about a class being overpowered because some 16k GS toon tore them up who has been playing since for a year now. Deal with it.
First of all, I'm not threatening anyone. Just stating the obvious...Secondly, I'm sorry for wanting to nerf stealth but when in D&D history has a rogue been able to just disappear? They "hide" in the shadows...not physically disappear, and once they attack someone they become "unhidden" its been like that since day one. They don't have some magic invis spell...I think TR's should get a boost for pve and stealth nerf for pvp.
My main is a HR, and pretty much all of my go to attacks are being nerfed to oblivion. I don't mind, I can work around it. Permastealth is just too op'd, its an annoyance and it takes alot of value from the game. Most fresh lvl 60's don't even bother trying pvp after their first match cuz they see how unbalanced it is. 90% of those complaints I've seen in channel and personally asked them about, was because of TR's being able to just vanish WHILE still being able to attack. HR's can stealth and hide jsut like rogues in DnD. So why can't the HR just vanish for insane amounts of time while still running around and attacking?
degraafinationMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited April 2014
Right now I think that a Melee HR is the best counter to a Perma-TR. Thorn Ward is the best skill to find a perma-stealth, as the animation clearly gives away their location. That + Constricting Shot + Fox Shift (soon to be Boar Charge when FS is nerfed), is a great way to burst them down.
By the way, Thorn Ward is getting a +40% damage bonus come Module 3.
First of all, I'm not threatening anyone. Just stating the obvious...Secondly, I'm sorry for wanting to nerf stealth but when in D&D history has a rogue been able to just disappear? They "hide" in the shadows...not physically disappear, and once they attack someone they become "unhidden" its been like that since day one. They don't have some magic invis spell...I think TR's should get a boost for pve and stealth nerf for pvp.
My main is a HR, and pretty much all of my go to attacks are being nerfed to oblivion. I don't mind, I can work around it. Permastealth is just too op'd, its an annoyance and it takes alot of value from the game. Most fresh lvl 60's don't even bother trying pvp after their first match cuz they see how unbalanced it is. 90% of those complaints I've seen in channel and personally asked them about, was because of TR's being able to just vanish WHILE still being able to attack. HR's can stealth and hide jsut like rogues in DnD. So why can't the HR just vanish for insane amounts of time while still running around and attacking?
Hide in plain sight was a feat in 3rd edition rules of D&D. Even in AD&D you could use your hide skill but with a negative modifier to your skill check. Its not new and has precedent in pen and paper. There is also the Shadowdancer prestige class that while not limited to rogues, certainly was popular amongst rogues. Assassins could also cast invis as a class ability. Just sayin'.
Hide in plain sight was a feat in 3rd edition rules of D&D. Even in AD&D you could use your hide skill but with a negative modifier to your skill check. Its not new and has precedent in pen and paper. There is also the Shadowdancer prestige class that while not limited to rogues, certainly was popular amongst rogues. Assassins could also cast invis as a class ability. Just sayin'.
Heres the thing... Hide in plain sight gave a negative movement modifier, as well as the fact that the defending person(s) gets a Spot check. Theres none here if you want to assume that Neverwinter stealth should be close to D&D stealth. As far as Invisibility(spell) goes, I will quote from the 3.5 edition player's handbook: "The spell ends if the subject attacks any creature".
You cant really compare Neverwinter stealth to basically any other mmo, or D&D. It acts differently than any other game.
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
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ggyuMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Right now I think that a Melee HR is the best counter to a Perma-TR. Thorn Ward is the best skill to find a perma-stealth, as the animation clearly gives away their location. That + Constricting Shot + Fox Shift (soon to be Boar Charge when FS is nerfed), is a great way to burst them down.
By the way, Thorn Ward is getting a +40% damage bonus come Module 3.
So true enough that some HR Skills got way high damage like split shoot which going to get 40% damage decrease and Btw I forget something about TR Skills.
Why The **** Stupid ****ty Skill Shocking Keep killing the target and get kill point even though he got Soulforge enchanet =.=
KILLERDDDD
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
You cant really compare Neverwinter stealth to basically any other mmo, or D&D. It acts differently than any other game.
I am not aware of any other game that has a stealth meter that ticks down. That is why so many of the stealth mechanics in Neverwinter are the way they are.
I am not aware of any other game that has a stealth meter that ticks down. That is why so many of the stealth mechanics in Neverwinter are the way they are.
That's just what im implying. Other people want to compare other mmo's, and/or D&D, to this game. Their is no comparison, because it DOESNT act like other games.
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
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ggyuMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
That's just what im implying. Other people want to compare other mmo's, and/or D&D, to this game. Their is no comparison, because it DOESNT act like other games.
Agree with that point for real every mmorpg game got it own style with dealing with Hide ability factions And Since Neverwinter is not only D&D Game it also have different style in combat different than normal one that have to press skills by mouth from skill bar.
KILLERDDDD
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ggyuMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited April 2014
And btw Game Not going to look and rework with Shocking <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> that kills anyone though he got soulforge and give him death which won't work with leaderbroad mod 3 =.=
And btw Game Not going to look and rework with Shocking <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> that kills anyone though he got soulforge and give him death which won't work with leaderbroad mod 3 =.=
Dude I'm literally on my knees begging you to create a Trickster Rogue and see how well of you do. The reason the devs aren't looking in to shocking execution is because it's a finisher. I mean it literally says "Does damage based on how low your enemies health is" So if you use it on someone with a full bar expect for a little dent in there health. Maybe they always use it on you when you're at a low health because that's the only time the damage is good. The upside to Shocking Execution is that it does decent damage when health is low the down side is that it doesn't leave a dent when health is high and another is that any control effects stop the move dead on. It doesn't avoid damage taken so you can kill the rogue before they even land and you can stop the daily with any control effect. You need to create a rogue trust me, I want you to create one and show us your 22 kills and 0 deaths like how you're making rogues seem. If you're thinking they're OP and too easy to master I'd like to see you master it with a screen shot to show.
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lazaroth666Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,332Arc User
The reason the devs aren't looking in to shocking execution is because it's a finisher.
Lol right, because my character deserves to die (be finished) once she has 50% hp left. At 10% yes, at 15% yes, at 20% Mmmm makes sense but 50% is plain stupid.
Lol right, because my character deserves to die (be finished) once she has 50% hp left. At 10% yes, at 15% yes, at 20% Mmmm makes sense but 50% is plain stupid.
at 30%, a rogue can kill u with just an encounter which is y lowering the threshold for bonus damage does not work. who needs a 300% bonus damage on someone who has 10k hp or less and especially on one that ignores resists?
10-20% is probably when we can just kill u with knives
Lol right, because my character deserves to die (be finished) once she has 50% hp left. At 10% yes, at 15% yes, at 20% Mmmm makes sense but 50% is plain stupid.
It depends on the build. You're never supposed to let a TR get you alone and if they do that while in a group it's because everyone is contributing high damage towards you to the point where shocking execution finishes you. Never let a TR, HR, or GWF get you alone. Shocking Execution doesn't finish you alone a 50% HP I doubt. It probably brings your bar down to 10% where they use lashing blade or At Wills, Dazing Strike etc to finish the job
That's just what im implying. Other people want to compare other mmo's, and/or D&D, to this game. Their is no comparison, because it DOESNT act like other games.
Works both ways.
It is also the very reason why CC breakers are so essential to TRs, and it is also why they are given such high deflection severities as well as why stealth is a -- like it or not -- a must, for any TR, even non-permas. Everything about NW TRs are a result of that difference, so if you're going to acknowledge that difference, please do it without a double standard.
HOW IS THAT TRs CAN ATTACK FROM STEALTH, UNLIKE OTHER GAMES??
→ Because NW TRs have limited stealth duration, unlike other games, typically less than 10~12secs, which limits its use when compared to other stealth classes in other games whom enjoys an incredbly powerful choice of strategy coming from indefinate stealth.
WHY IS IT THAT ONLY TRs HAVE 75% DEFLECT SEVERITY??
→ Because TRs are the only squishy class that is also melee. Range is by itself a weapon, being able to attack one-sidedly without fear of retaliation. Also, it's not exactly as if HRs are weak at melee range anyway. Fox's Shift typically hits at least twice harder than any TR encounter. TRs also do not have any form of self-buffs for defense. No shields. No armors. No free-dodge-one-attack. No nuthin'. When stealth is up, a TR will be forced to face a GWF/GF without any self-protection buffs of any kind. They also will be facing ranged HRs and CWs and will be just one-sidedly receving damage, until they catch up to them somehow.
WHY IS IT THAT ONLY TRs HAVE SOMETHING LIKE ITC?
→ Because the GF has the shield to protect himself from both damage and CCs. The GWF has a repeatable immunity. Both of them have more than twice, thrice the amount of defense than a HR, and both of them have some of the game's most powerful CCs. HRs and CWs both have range as their weapon, coupled with strong CCs that root/stun the target, and have more dodges = more chances to try and avoid important attacks.
What does the TR have?
...nothing. A TR has a gap-closer that may hit once ever 12~16 seconds. In between the other guy simply needs to run in one direction he's mostly out of melee range. DF is impossible to land no matter how well u jump if the other guy does not panic and simply moves in one direction. Sly Flourish has a little bit of frontal movement, but at most you get 2.. maybe 3 hits if the guy, again, just moves away. Dazing Strike is out of the question, Lashing Blade also may miss, Impact Shot is nerfed and weak, as well as also roots you in place for far too long -- you're never catching up if you use IS or CoS.
A TR has absolutely nothing. A TR has nothing to aid him in out-of-stealth combat. No sprint. No prone. No CCs. Slows coming from Deft Strike or VP doesn't last long enough to land even one full Sly Flourish combo(4 attacks). All attacks root you in this game, and TRs are melee. If it wants to close gaps to a ranged class, you need to do so by walking upto him while he attacks so the distance is closed little by little. But ofcourse, that's also impossible if he (1) roots, (2) then attacks, (3) then runs again.
Voila. There you have it again.
Why ITC is so important to MIs, and why VP as a 0 recharge gap-closer mattered so much more to WKs than it being some sort of half-baked putrid failure of a CC breaker wannabe as it is now.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Comments
Man I don't hate anyone But I hate when a perman hide TR say you nub while you run from 1vs1.
Like what suppose i do ? Keep swing till you hit my sword ? o.o
then what the mean of Sential beastly Defense and Destroyer beastly Offense
If You say GWF Sential is much of annoying I agree with that They should rethink about much deflect and heal But Destroyer is squish , Yes can do damage still can be killed and damage can be dodge while Tr perman hide and Sential build tankey GWF can't that my point
Thanks
Thanks for remembering us with unstoppable Nerf How Did i forget that ?! So Yep beastly Offense Build Destroyer was less defense after unstoppable nerf
Oh, I know man. I don't want trs nerfed, don't want anything nerfed. But a lot of people who cry nerf wont simply adapt, they just want an easy fix for a class that they cant work around. Look at the ranger. They haven't been out that long, and already a nerf bat to their rooting, a nerf bat to what little control they have, and in mod 3, 2 of their staple abilities(split shot, fox's shift) get nerfed badly. Im waiting to see the warlock or whatever class to enter the game, with nerf cries in record time. A lot of people don't know that unstoppable has been hit at least 3 times!
Gimme the queue and I'll start laughing. I mean a GWF complaining that a TR is a - you said and I quote - crappy player who needs to have a lot of handicaps in pvp in order to supplement their lack of playing skill...
A GWF, losing half health to one knife throw.. what did you build your GWF out of, butter?
But then again, considering the overwhelming number of crappy half-baked garbage destroyer builds with like 23k HP at lv60 with 15k+ GS, maybe you're not too far from the truth. One thing is certain -- there are a lot of trash GWFs in the game as of late, and those trash, us TRs can take out without much difficulty since the sophistication of their PvP gameplay matches that of a raging bull in a china shop.
(Or rather, the truth would be more close to that there were a lot of trash people with zero skill that only managed to get by because the GWF class was so horribly imbalanced in the first place, and then simply have been revealed for what they are after the normalization of heal/regen has hit.)
Remember this -- us TRs have been around fighting your kind and have been baptized by fire by fighting GWFs when they were nigh unkillable. Who have you GWFs have been fighting that actually offered you any challenge before the patch? CWs?
Perhaps when you die a 100 more times from that crappy gameplay, you'll at least start think of how the other great GWF players actually do play their classes.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
TRs have been on top of the PvP ladder since the start, up there with sentinel tanks. Before IV sentinels were introduced in module 2, skilled TRs were considered better in PvP, being able to kite GWFs a lot while dealing damage. Talking again about the ITC-hybrid permastealth TRs.
After module 2, with threat rush, it became a bit more difficult for TRs to kite GWFs, but skilled ones were still an equal match for a GWF.
With tenacity and healing depression, it's easier for a TR to contest a point against a GWF compared to module 2, since the GWF is 100% of the time under healing depression and the survivability of regeneration monsters has been nerfed greatly and balanced, while TRs are still able to evade most of the damage due to their nature, while dealing constant damage to the GWF. And, there's still SE being the only daily that ignores tenacity, dealing 20k damage to sentinels and much more to the other builds/ classes.
The point is: TRs have never been at a disadvantage in PvP, against any class. Your class was Always up there, with all the tools needed to fight against any class, any build. TRs used to shut every whiner with a big "learn to play", then, in module 2, they became the most active whiners. Perhaps they should stop crying and pretending their class is poor and weak, complaining about GWFs. PvP GWFs and PvP TRs have been in the past, and are even more right now, balanced.
If a TR feels like he's at a disadvantage against a GWF, then it's his problem.
Is a nerf is solution for every problem ?
You asked to nerf CN:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?636571-Castle-Never-they-say-it-Min-Require-9200-GS-But-It-need-15000-GS-To-Done
You asked to Nerf TR:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?465381-The-point-of-TR
TR OP here:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?461691-Why-hate-GWF
I think the main problem is that in your reasoning this is manly a PvP game (http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?506071-Some-words-for-Devs)
It is Not !
It's mainly a Co-op PvE as most MMORPGS, you want a truly balanced PvP, try PvP games like Dota2, SC2, CS, and many other which have paid tournaments, enormous balancing efforts, ranked matchmaking and so on..
You can't deal with a perma-stealth TR, try to roll one and play with it, you will see how a prone lock and AoE kills it. You think they can solo a dungeon, try it and see how well geared DC in DPS mode outdps it.
And where is your team ?
The PvP here is not 1vs1 but a 5vs5, though you always compare your GWF 1vs1 TR, i'm sure many others can't kill your GWF 1vs1 so lets nerf your GWF even more.
There are already a pile of threads discussing how to effectively deal with permas and a pile of threads discussing the speculations on changes to the stealth mechanics that were mentioned.
So what now ? another thread to discuss lack of skill ? or start a flame war ? or perhaps lets nerf everything that some player can't handle, form Blacklake District (i'm sure someone find it difficult out there) to CN, because nerf = balance?
Or perhaps some teamwork, strategy, learning the enemy (rolling tr) and waiting for the changes that were already promised ?
One solution is testing, reading builds, kicking dummies for Act.
The other is crying for nerf every time...!
From my experience however, its way too easy for a fresh lvl 60 TR to compete with people that have spent alot of time on their pvp build. It's just ridiculous how you not only leave the permastealth (or to be correct "invis") alone, but you actually add a profound set bonus that gives them 30% more stealth gauge AND more dmg while stealthed?? Why not give the HR's 50 ft more distance? or GWF's 30% more unstoppable, or CW's 30% more control. You could do these things and it still wouldn't add up to the TR's ability to just vanish in thin air never to be seen until they drop a 15K crit daily on you.
Seriously Cryptic...This has gone on far too long already. Fix this invis garbage before mod 3 or you're gonna have alot of really upset players/customers.
Btw...Don't believe me devs? Try the pvp on live for yourself, 9 out of 10 matches ends with a TR that stayed invis the entire time and just capped the enemies tower. You tell me it's not the most frustrating aspect of this entire game. On any other game...This would be an exploit and it would be stopped immediately.
I have an idea. Why don't we just give everyone no abilities, and one melee at will and one ranged at will that hits for 100 damage for every class. This 100 hundred damage cannot be modified in any way. Also everyone will be naked and have no items such as potions and artifacts to use so that everyone is equal across the board in every way. Each class can also have only 1 dodge, which will be the same dodge, that can be used every 5 seconds. Then we will have balanced PVP. I am sure even then that someone will find some way to whine about one class being more overpowered than the other. Each class has its unique abilities and I'm pretty sure overpowered has nothing to do with it as much as the person playing that toon is just a **** good player. There are plenty of TRs that are easy kills too. Learn to play. Nothing is more irritating then some 11k GS toon who has been playing since last February coming on here and whining about a class being overpowered because some 16k GS toon tore them up who has been playing since for a year now. Deal with it.
My main is a HR, and pretty much all of my go to attacks are being nerfed to oblivion. I don't mind, I can work around it. Permastealth is just too op'd, its an annoyance and it takes alot of value from the game. Most fresh lvl 60's don't even bother trying pvp after their first match cuz they see how unbalanced it is. 90% of those complaints I've seen in channel and personally asked them about, was because of TR's being able to just vanish WHILE still being able to attack. HR's can stealth and hide jsut like rogues in DnD. So why can't the HR just vanish for insane amounts of time while still running around and attacking?
By the way, Thorn Ward is getting a +40% damage bonus come Module 3.
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
Hide in plain sight was a feat in 3rd edition rules of D&D. Even in AD&D you could use your hide skill but with a negative modifier to your skill check. Its not new and has precedent in pen and paper. There is also the Shadowdancer prestige class that while not limited to rogues, certainly was popular amongst rogues. Assassins could also cast invis as a class ability. Just sayin'.
Heres the thing... Hide in plain sight gave a negative movement modifier, as well as the fact that the defending person(s) gets a Spot check. Theres none here if you want to assume that Neverwinter stealth should be close to D&D stealth. As far as Invisibility(spell) goes, I will quote from the 3.5 edition player's handbook: "The spell ends if the subject attacks any creature".
You cant really compare Neverwinter stealth to basically any other mmo, or D&D. It acts differently than any other game.
So true enough that some HR Skills got way high damage like split shoot which going to get 40% damage decrease and Btw I forget something about TR Skills.
Why The **** Stupid ****ty Skill Shocking Keep killing the target and get kill point even though he got Soulforge enchanet =.=
I am not aware of any other game that has a stealth meter that ticks down. That is why so many of the stealth mechanics in Neverwinter are the way they are.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
That's just what im implying. Other people want to compare other mmo's, and/or D&D, to this game. Their is no comparison, because it DOESNT act like other games.
Agree with that point for real every mmorpg game got it own style with dealing with Hide ability factions And Since Neverwinter is not only D&D Game it also have different style in combat different than normal one that have to press skills by mouth from skill bar.
Dude I'm literally on my knees begging you to create a Trickster Rogue and see how well of you do. The reason the devs aren't looking in to shocking execution is because it's a finisher. I mean it literally says "Does damage based on how low your enemies health is" So if you use it on someone with a full bar expect for a little dent in there health. Maybe they always use it on you when you're at a low health because that's the only time the damage is good. The upside to Shocking Execution is that it does decent damage when health is low the down side is that it doesn't leave a dent when health is high and another is that any control effects stop the move dead on. It doesn't avoid damage taken so you can kill the rogue before they even land and you can stop the daily with any control effect. You need to create a rogue trust me, I want you to create one and show us your 22 kills and 0 deaths like how you're making rogues seem. If you're thinking they're OP and too easy to master I'd like to see you master it with a screen shot to show.
Lol right, because my character deserves to die (be finished) once she has 50% hp left. At 10% yes, at 15% yes, at 20% Mmmm makes sense but 50% is plain stupid.
at 30%, a rogue can kill u with just an encounter which is y lowering the threshold for bonus damage does not work. who needs a 300% bonus damage on someone who has 10k hp or less and especially on one that ignores resists?
10-20% is probably when we can just kill u with knives
It depends on the build. You're never supposed to let a TR get you alone and if they do that while in a group it's because everyone is contributing high damage towards you to the point where shocking execution finishes you. Never let a TR, HR, or GWF get you alone. Shocking Execution doesn't finish you alone a 50% HP I doubt. It probably brings your bar down to 10% where they use lashing blade or At Wills, Dazing Strike etc to finish the job
Works both ways.
It is also the very reason why CC breakers are so essential to TRs, and it is also why they are given such high deflection severities as well as why stealth is a -- like it or not -- a must, for any TR, even non-permas. Everything about NW TRs are a result of that difference, so if you're going to acknowledge that difference, please do it without a double standard.
HOW IS THAT TRs CAN ATTACK FROM STEALTH, UNLIKE OTHER GAMES??
→ Because NW TRs have limited stealth duration, unlike other games, typically less than 10~12secs, which limits its use when compared to other stealth classes in other games whom enjoys an incredbly powerful choice of strategy coming from indefinate stealth.
WHY IS IT THAT ONLY TRs HAVE 75% DEFLECT SEVERITY??
→ Because TRs are the only squishy class that is also melee. Range is by itself a weapon, being able to attack one-sidedly without fear of retaliation. Also, it's not exactly as if HRs are weak at melee range anyway. Fox's Shift typically hits at least twice harder than any TR encounter. TRs also do not have any form of self-buffs for defense. No shields. No armors. No free-dodge-one-attack. No nuthin'. When stealth is up, a TR will be forced to face a GWF/GF without any self-protection buffs of any kind. They also will be facing ranged HRs and CWs and will be just one-sidedly receving damage, until they catch up to them somehow.
WHY IS IT THAT ONLY TRs HAVE SOMETHING LIKE ITC?
→ Because the GF has the shield to protect himself from both damage and CCs. The GWF has a repeatable immunity. Both of them have more than twice, thrice the amount of defense than a HR, and both of them have some of the game's most powerful CCs. HRs and CWs both have range as their weapon, coupled with strong CCs that root/stun the target, and have more dodges = more chances to try and avoid important attacks.
What does the TR have?
...nothing. A TR has a gap-closer that may hit once ever 12~16 seconds. In between the other guy simply needs to run in one direction he's mostly out of melee range. DF is impossible to land no matter how well u jump if the other guy does not panic and simply moves in one direction. Sly Flourish has a little bit of frontal movement, but at most you get 2.. maybe 3 hits if the guy, again, just moves away. Dazing Strike is out of the question, Lashing Blade also may miss, Impact Shot is nerfed and weak, as well as also roots you in place for far too long -- you're never catching up if you use IS or CoS.
A TR has absolutely nothing. A TR has nothing to aid him in out-of-stealth combat. No sprint. No prone. No CCs. Slows coming from Deft Strike or VP doesn't last long enough to land even one full Sly Flourish combo(4 attacks). All attacks root you in this game, and TRs are melee. If it wants to close gaps to a ranged class, you need to do so by walking upto him while he attacks so the distance is closed little by little. But ofcourse, that's also impossible if he (1) roots, (2) then attacks, (3) then runs again.
Voila. There you have it again.
Why ITC is so important to MIs, and why VP as a 0 recharge gap-closer mattered so much more to WKs than it being some sort of half-baked putrid failure of a CC breaker wannabe as it is now.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'