There will be ALOT of 1on1 siutations on homenode or farcap, while the rest is batteling the midpoint. And if the enemyteam sends 1 guy to help the TR having a problem with the HR, your team sends one aswell to compensate. Or you try to take one of them out and stay alive for as long as you can. And by that your team will have a advantage on midcap since your team fight 3vs2.
That's what youre missing... The TR wont be "having problems" with the HR. Quite the opposite. Now, with a class that in the end is squishy, already getting reamed by a permastealth, gets rolled up on by an enemy teammate(s), then the best an hr can do is die fighting. If the opposite happens, all a TR has to do is regain stealth(which isn't hard with ITC/SS combos) and go away. Same situation, any other class is dead, whereas the TR can safely get away to annoy at another point, or later harass again.
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
That's what youre missing... The TR wont be "having problems" with the HR. Quite the opposite. Now, with a class that in the end is squishy, already getting reamed by a permastealth, gets rolled up on by an enemy teammate(s), then the best an hr can do is die fighting. If the opposite happens, all a TR has to do is regain stealth(which isn't hard with ITC/SS combos) and go away. Same situation, any other class is dead, whereas the TR can safely get away to annoy at another point, or later harass again.
Are u for real? Any good HR eat up the TRs if they do the timing well, which isnt to hard. Ater the TR used its ITC, he will throw SS at u and go back to stealh. THIS is when u use Fox melee since he got ITC on cd u will burst that TR down hard as hell. I play TR, GWF and HR at endgame myself and i know how all classes work and their rotaion. Do u have a TR yourself? From what i can understand out of your posts u have no clue how the trs actually works. And if u die that easy on your HR when u trying to kill a pvp-TR, you simple use either wrong spec, gear or both. A perma TR should NOT be that big issue for a HR thats all im saying.
That's what youre missing... The TR wont be "having problems" with the HR. Quite the opposite. Now, with a class that in the end is squishy, already getting reamed by a permastealth, gets rolled up on by an enemy teammate(s), then the best an hr can do is die fighting. If the opposite happens, all a TR has to do is regain stealth(which isn't hard with ITC/SS combos) and go away. Same situation, any other class is dead, whereas the TR can safely get away to annoy at another point, or later harass again.
As a TR, HRs are my hardest opponents, much more so than GWF. Against GWFs, a TR has to be able to avoid all hits, and then after 3-4 rotations (about a minute) the TR will win with little to no damage. Every time the TR gets proned, he loses about half his health in general (You can't cast ITC while proned). So I agree with Pando that TR vs GWF is pretty balanced. If the GWF lands a couple hits, the TR dies, otherwise the GWF wins. It's a classic predator versus prey system.
As an HR, all you have to do is keep moving back and forth from one side of the node to the other. TRs can only use cloud of steel in stealth at range, and that only lasts ~3 seconds for a 24 second cooldown. If the TR comes into melee range, use fox shift. In general, fox shift will drain 1/2 of the rogues stealth bar. When the TR is in ITC, avoid at all costs. Pretend the rogue is a GWF in unstoppable, and run like your life depends on it. After ITC, the rogue will have to go back into stealth, so move back to where he was and fox shift again. Needless to say, you want to keep thorn ward on the node as often as possible, and you never want to stay in melee range if you don't have fox shift. The best time to put thorn ward on is right after the rogue goes into stealth, as he will have to evacuate the node if he doesn't want his stealth to disappear prematurely. You want to sit in your thorn ward while he's in stealth, so he can't come hit you. You have 6 dodges, if a rogue lands a flurry on you, dodge away twice. Flurry takes about 2 seconds to start up, and if you're not in range once the third strike is ready, the rogue just wasted 1/3 of his stealth time. The most important part, is to stay mobile. A rogue has to guess where you will be in 2 seconds to land a flurry, so your goal is to foil his guess.
I really don't see what the problem is from an HRs perspective, going so far as to say that HRs have the advantage against rogues. This might not be the case after the nerf coming to HRs in mod 3, and I'm in no way saying HRs are OP, as rogues have advantages against other classes too.
As a TR, HRs are my hardest opponents, much more so than GWF. Against GWFs, a TR has to be able to avoid all hits, and then after 3-4 rotations (about a minute) the TR will win with little to no damage. Every time the TR gets proned, he loses about half his health in general (You can't cast ITC while proned). So I agree with Pando that TR vs GWF is pretty balanced. If the GWF lands a couple hits, the TR dies, otherwise the GWF wins. It's a classic predator versus prey system.
As an HR, all you have to do is keep moving back and forth from one side of the node to the other. TRs can only use cloud of steel in stealth at range, and that only lasts ~3 seconds for a 24 second cooldown. If the TR comes into melee range, use fox shift. In general, fox shift will drain 1/2 of the rogues stealth bar. When the TR is in ITC, avoid at all costs. Pretend the rogue is a GWF in unstoppable, and run like your life depends on it. After ITC, the rogue will have to go back into stealth, so move back to where he was and fox shift again. Needless to say, you want to keep thorn ward on the node as often as possible, and you never want to stay in melee range if you don't have fox shift. The best time to put thorn ward on is right after the rogue goes into stealth, as he will have to evacuate the node if he doesn't want his stealth to disappear prematurely. You want to sit in your thorn ward while he's in stealth, so he can't come hit you. You have 6 dodges, if a rogue lands a flurry on you, dodge away twice. Flurry takes about 2 seconds to start up, and if you're not in range once the third strike is ready, the rogue just wasted 1/3 of his stealth time. The most important part, is to stay mobile. A rogue has to guess where you will be in 2 seconds to land a flurry, so your goal is to foil his guess.
I really don't see what the problem is from an HRs perspective, going so far as to say that HRs have the advantage against rogues. This might not be the case after the nerf coming to HRs in mod 3, and I'm in no way saying HRs are OP, as rogues have advantages against other classes too.
i dunno, most hunters i consider easy targets but the jumping hunters r just ridiculous
a jumping hunter is capable of constantly maintaining the same distance between us for the entire fight. even in ITC, he can interrupt me and stop me from running towards him for a good half a sec. even with deft strike, i can only remain in melee range long enough to use lashing as he will quickly back away in a few seconds. not to mention their high deflect making them tanky. i'm actually surprised just 1 hunter defeated 3 melee classes while only losing 50% hp.
of course, i'm one of the combat rogues so idk if a stealthy one can handle such a hunter better
As a TR, HRs are my hardest opponents, much more so than GWF. Against GWFs, a TR has to be able to avoid all hits, and then after 3-4 rotations (about a minute) the TR will win with little to no damage. Every time the TR gets proned, he loses about half his health in general (You can't cast ITC while proned). So I agree with Pando that TR vs GWF is pretty balanced. If the GWF lands a couple hits, the TR dies, otherwise the GWF wins. It's a classic predator versus prey system.
As an HR, all you have to do is keep moving back and forth from one side of the node to the other. TRs can only use cloud of steel in stealth at range, and that only lasts ~3 seconds for a 24 second cooldown. If the TR comes into melee range, use fox shift. In general, fox shift will drain 1/2 of the rogues stealth bar. When the TR is in ITC, avoid at all costs. Pretend the rogue is a GWF in unstoppable, and run like your life depends on it. After ITC, the rogue will have to go back into stealth, so move back to where he was and fox shift again. Needless to say, you want to keep thorn ward on the node as often as possible, and you never want to stay in melee range if you don't have fox shift. The best time to put thorn ward on is right after the rogue goes into stealth, as he will have to evacuate the node if he doesn't want his stealth to disappear prematurely. You want to sit in your thorn ward while he's in stealth, so he can't come hit you. You have 6 dodges, if a rogue lands a flurry on you, dodge away twice. Flurry takes about 2 seconds to start up, and if you're not in range once the third strike is ready, the rogue just wasted 1/3 of his stealth time. The most important part, is to stay mobile. A rogue has to guess where you will be in 2 seconds to land a flurry, so your goal is to foil his guess.
I really don't see what the problem is from an HRs perspective, going so far as to say that HRs have the advantage against rogues. This might not be the case after the nerf coming to HRs in mod 3, and I'm in no way saying HRs are OP, as rogues have advantages against other classes too.
Thx for putting more words in it then I did, but all in all this is jsut what i tried to tell the guy:)
(month or two in the future) Nerf TR = play GWF without anyone to counter you.
(few months later) Nerf GWF = Play HR without anyone to counter you (No OP GWF or OP Perma to deal with)
(few months later) Nerf HR
At that point, I'm hoping for a poorly implemented buff or nerf will imbalance things to make a new "best" class or an entirely new class will be introduced and have OP pvp abilities.
I'll make sure I stay up to date on my OP builds to always give you guys something to nerf, but for now just focus on nerfing TR so I can move to my GWF and have an even easier time in PvP. Thanks for your unyielding support.
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ggyuMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
(month or two in the future) Nerf TR = play GWF without anyone to counter you.
(few months later) Nerf GWF = Play HR without anyone to counter you (No OP GWF or OP Perma to deal with)
(few months later) Nerf HR
At that point, I'm hoping for a poorly implemented buff or nerf will imbalance things to make a new "best" class or an entirely new class will be introduced and have OP pvp abilities.
I'll make sure I stay up to date on my OP builds to always give you guys something to nerf, but for now just focus on nerfing TR so I can move to my GWF and have an even easier time in PvP. Thanks for your unyielding support.
This time pump Destroyer GWF And thinking about nerf or make some edit to TR
Omg, there is so much l2p issues in your statement here too. Do you know what youll get if you just wildly swing your weapon around, throwing your cc's down when an INVISIBLE AND UNTARGETABLE ENEMY IS NEARBY? They will laugh in your face. YOU HAVE TO SEE YOUR TARGET BEFORE THROWING ANYTHING AT THEM. For the millionth time, at least a gwf can be targeted.
In return, if you cant 1v1 a gwf(seeing as your implying that its sooo easy to defeat a tr 1v1, especially with a squishy class), then you need to "l2p" there too. Gwf's are easier to take down than a tr, because all a smart player has to do is cc him until he pops unstoppable, dodge him rushing you, throw a little DoT's here and there, then really lay into him as soon as his unstoppable runs out.
So, by your own admission, no class is currently too op in pvp. So no more tr whining, and especially no more gwf whining.
TA DA!!!
The TR aren't invisible. I'm TR myself and I realized this while vs are TR's. If you actually pay attention instead of flipping out you'd notice that the TRs cast a shadow every second and there name appears for 13 mili seconds every 6 seconds. That's how I kill TRs so easily. Really not hard and I get about 15 kills per Domination 6 deaths (GWF, HR, CW) are the only ones that can kill me. Once a GWF killed me with 3 hits, Here's how you do it (never got that far on a GWF so come up with the names yourself) Wait until the TR starts striking (The blades appear even when in stealth) Then hit them with At Will attack until they come from stealth. Knock them down with your sword, do that thing where you turn in to about 5 people and smash them down (even if they run it still gets them prob a bug) and then heal yourself because they probably used lashing blade by now. Then hit them with a bunch of CCs and attack boom your rogue is dead. It's fairly easy because while you're doing this all of the rogues attacks chain so it shouldn't be hard. Problem solved the only OP class is the GWF because they can kill enemies in only a few hits where as rogues have to go in to stealth and use all of their encounters +At Wills about 5 times if doing a 1 on 1 with a GWF. The stealth of the rogue needs to be fixed because honestly being able to see the rogues name and their shadow ruins the idea of invisibility
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ggyuMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
The TR aren't invisible. I'm TR myself and I realized this while vs are TR's. If you actually pay attention instead of flipping out you'd notice that the TRs cast a shadow every second and there name appears for 13 mili seconds every 6 seconds. That's how I kill TRs so easily. Really not hard and I get about 15 kills per Domination 6 deaths (GWF, HR, CW) are the only ones that can kill me. Once a GWF killed me with 3 hits, Here's how you do it (never got that far on a GWF so come up with the names yourself) Wait until the TR starts striking (The blades appear even when in stealth) Then hit them with At Will attack until they come from stealth. Knock them down with your sword, do that thing where you turn in to about 5 people and smash them down (even if they run it still gets them prob a bug) and then heal yourself because they probably used lashing blade by now. Then hit them with a bunch of CCs and attack boom your rogue is dead. It's fairly easy because while you're doing this all of the rogues attacks chain so it shouldn't be hard. Problem solved the only OP class is the GWF because they can kill enemies in only a few hits where as rogues have to go in to stealth and use all of their encounters +At Wills about 5 times if doing a 1 on 1 with a GWF. The stealth of the rogue needs to be fixed because honestly being able to see the rogues name and their shadow ruins the idea of invisibility
Boy you so funny you come up with something you even don't understand first of all Tr names appear in only one case if they near you enough while you hitting, Second invisibility isn't broken it's your mind, Third The Game Devs said that there perma hide and they working on that so shhh
plus Know the CDs of Encounters of GWF vs CD of encounters of TR
Before we continue complaining about these classes I say we all team up and beg for the Nerf of CW. Since the beginning of the game if CW were a great then they were unstoppable no matter who they're fighting. 2 Good CW's could take out a whole team when they stick together
Yes If the answer I know all of that But Still In dunges when all fall down Tr Keep killing boss alone , Happen with the 3rd boss in CN when it was 90% so got explain for that ?
Yes. It means the rest of the team's so sucky that the TR had to go exhaust himself.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
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degraafinationMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Before we continue complaining about these classes I say we all team up and beg for the Nerf of CW. Since the beginning of the game if CW were a great then they were unstoppable no matter who they're fighting. 2 Good CW's could take out a whole team when they stick together
Are you serious? CWs are the worst choice since the PVP changes. They have no burst damage, very little CC, no CC immunity, and most are amazingly squishy.
xira4Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 17Arc User
edited April 2014
Tbh, I do think that TR is a bit OP right now being a TR myself, vast majority of the CW can't kill me 1v1 (tho many could hurt me pretty bad). However, GWF is MUCH more ridiculous, there are gwfs who could practically crush all permas (steamroller from Choco for example), why did they give them range prone is way beyond me...not to mention unstoppable + emblem combo, that's GOD mode right there....
GWF just need to Prone ---> does his/her rotation ---> Voila, you only have <30% HP left if you're not already dead, even Low GS ones could hurt you pretty badly...
Boy you so funny you come up with something you even don't understand first of all Tr names appear in only one case if they near you enough while you hitting, Second invisibility isn't broken it's your mind, Third The Game Devs said that there perma hide and they working on that so shhh
plus Know the CDs of Encounters of GWF vs CD of encounters of TR
I played a GWF today and I realized that they were great and it was easy to kill people. They weren't unstoppable or OP I have to admit considering CWs could destroy them while they're focusing on other players but they could last a long time 3 vs 1
TR can only do good 1 on 1 and that's all. They could never and I exclaim never take down 3 people who are fully focused on him/her perma stealth or not. So they are not OP you just have to pay attention and it must be my CP because I can see the shadows they cast and their name plates perfectly every time one goes stealth.
CW was a really fun class for me. Maybe I'd rather make that my main instead of a TR. I found it very easy to kill GWFs TRs HRs and other CWs. I do really good with that class maybe why I assumed it was over powered so I apologize by saying they were over powered, I suppose I'm just really good with this class. They're easy to dominate with. Ask Nocturne she had about 26 kills and 2 deaths.
It all depends on who you're fighting. I don't get this thread because obviously a TR is gonna think a CW is over powered. Obviously a GWF will think a TR is over powered and obviously a HR with think a GWF is over powered. Of course a CW doesn't have anyone they think is over powered because it all depends on how good you are. If you're a good CW nobody would be over powered but if you're a bad one everyone would be over powered.
It's pretty much like this for every class. If you aren't doing good with your GWF try different classes don't sit around begging to down TRs because you can't beat one. Do you really want to disappoint 1,000 TRs so you can start dominating. What's the logic in "If I can't beat them then they're too strong" nobody should even complain about other classes getting nerfed until they've tried out every class to see which one fits them. This is the wise things I've learned today
i dunno, most hunters i consider easy targets but the jumping hunters r just ridiculous
a jumping hunter is capable of constantly maintaining the same distance between us for the entire fight. even in ITC, he can interrupt me and stop me from running towards him for a good half a sec. even with deft strike, i can only remain in melee range long enough to use lashing as he will quickly back away in a few seconds. not to mention their high deflect making them tanky. i'm actually surprised just 1 hunter defeated 3 melee classes while only losing 50% hp.
of course, i'm one of the combat rogues so idk if a stealthy one can handle such a hunter better
And this is what ive been waiting to hear? are YOU for real? You just said that youre a combat rogue, i.e. you use melee abilities MORE THAN YOURE PERMA STEALTH ONES. Youre flip flopping your arguments now, saying on one hand that you take out rangers real easy, then in the next saying theyre a pain to deal with... Which one? you cant say theyre too hard AND too easy to take out at the same time. I can say that a permastealth(bad) I can knock out of stealth on any other class quite easily, whereas a permastealth(good), I end up chasing around to no avail... and by the way, I don't use thorn ward on my ranger, because when the ranger came out, and I used that in pvp, guess what? tr's whined horribly about it. So, accept that something CAN knock you out of stealth, but don't argue AGAINST it, then later say "why weren't you using thorn ward, were soooo easy to take out of stealth". Sorry, but the second rangers came out, used that tactic in pvp and heard endless whining from tr's that we had an encounter to contest nodes with you, and rangers seemed to be the foil for gwf's and cw's... then the whining came out. "waaah, he stops cw's shard", "waaah he stops unstoppable", "waaah, he can drain my stealth with an aoe on node". If you want balance, don't whine about the weaknesses of your class, and the strengths the other classes play against you.
Like I originally said, a combat rogue is BY FAR different from a permastealth one... That's whats been generally talked about this entire time. Go ask a true permastealth tr if he runs lashing blade... youll get laughed in the face. They lowered their damage to slot encounters that ensure their stealth lasts longer(hence the name, permastealth). They tend to use bilethorn enchant to slowly kill their opponents, while they stay in stealth. If youre using lashing blade, youre not permastealth. They slot 3 encounters(SS, Impact Shot, and switch between ITC and another(idk, my rogue that I made in beta was combat as well)) specifically geared to stay IN STEALTH, and attack FROM STEALTH.
Please at least look up what youre talking about, before you start insulting someone on a topic that you obviously weren't listening to...
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
As a TR, HRs are my hardest opponents, much more so than GWF. Against GWFs, a TR has to be able to avoid all hits, and then after 3-4 rotations (about a minute) the TR will win with little to no damage. Every time the TR gets proned, he loses about half his health in general (You can't cast ITC while proned). So I agree with Pando that TR vs GWF is pretty balanced. If the GWF lands a couple hits, the TR dies, otherwise the GWF wins. It's a classic predator versus prey system.
As an HR, all you have to do is keep moving back and forth from one side of the node to the other. TRs can only use cloud of steel in stealth at range, and that only lasts ~3 seconds for a 24 second cooldown. If the TR comes into melee range, use fox shift. In general, fox shift will drain 1/2 of the rogues stealth bar. When the TR is in ITC, avoid at all costs. Pretend the rogue is a GWF in unstoppable, and run like your life depends on it. After ITC, the rogue will have to go back into stealth, so move back to where he was and fox shift again. Needless to say, you want to keep thorn ward on the node as often as possible, and you never want to stay in melee range if you don't have fox shift. The best time to put thorn ward on is right after the rogue goes into stealth, as he will have to evacuate the node if he doesn't want his stealth to disappear prematurely. You want to sit in your thorn ward while he's in stealth, so he can't come hit you. You have 6 dodges, if a rogue lands a flurry on you, dodge away twice. Flurry takes about 2 seconds to start up, and if you're not in range once the third strike is ready, the rogue just wasted 1/3 of his stealth time. The most important part, is to stay mobile. A rogue has to guess where you will be in 2 seconds to land a flurry, so your goal is to foil his guess.
I really don't see what the problem is from an HRs perspective, going so far as to say that HRs have the advantage against rogues. This might not be the case after the nerf coming to HRs in mod 3, and I'm in no way saying HRs are OP, as rogues have advantages against other classes too.
I understand this, and will take your expert opinions at heart man. But in return, I don't want to hear the whining about gwf's either, as both pre- and post tenacity, ive taken down gwf's on occasion with all my classes in 1v1 situations. When it comes to them, all it takes is timing and good rotations as well. What im saying is that gwf is no more op than permastealth tr, but at least a gwf can be targeted w/o the aforementioned running around swiping all over. Hence, I consider the gwf easier to deal with.
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
Funny part All rules been break when the Tr Use at-wills immune or encounters immune
Nope, at all. These rules are made to take advantage of the moments when the TR is vulneable.
Again: it's all in the strategy i quoted before, in my first post here. The TR uses ITC and dodge rolls as immunities, or that other multiple-hitting move (don't know the name). Usually, it works like i described: they go ITC, tank you, dodge roll away fading into stealth, evade and attack in stealth, then come back with ITC and repeat. When they are in ITC/ any immune state, you just have 2 options: you can 1) tank them with unstoppable to stay close to them and then chase them when they try to dodge roll away/ use your ranged stuns/ prones on them when they land from the first dodge roll, or 2) avoid them, run around the node keeping your roar/ frontline pointed in their direction, make them believe you're not going to attack. They will focus on attacking, loosen their timing when shifting from ITC to dodge roll and stealth, and give you an opening to prone them.
If you can't fool them or follow them these ways, when they go stealth you can follow the rules i posted before, which are made, and comkonly used by exped GWFs, to counter a TR when he is on a node and stealthed.
Again: use your head. There's no magic power allowing you to face a strong TR. This is an ACTION mmorpg. You've to use the "action" part and your head to outhink and outmanouver your opponent.
These are the tactics. It does not make magically easy to catch a strong TR. The more skilled ones you can meet will still avoid your damage a lot, and that's why GWFs have also their tankiness, with tons of HP, defense and deflect. Such TRs, as i said, use duelist flurry and bilethorn to deal slow, constant damage to you. If your GWF is well built and geared, you can tank their damage for a LONG time, while chasing them. And once you catch them, chain prone combo for lots of damage and pressure them like a rabid dog. Hit them with >DoT damage (deep gash, plaguefire, exc...) to drain their stealth and mess up their little immunity-stealth rotation. You chase them, then they will go ITC again. Then repeat the above strategy from the start, mixing different tactics to not be predictable.
Is it an easy fight? Nope. It's balanced. But you have the weapons to fight it. And a big part is experience, skills, and your ability to use your head to fool/ out-think your opponent.
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adernathMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited April 2014
I know they might already change how stealth works. However another option is to keep stealth as it is and remove or tone down the fast movenent in stealth. This means if the TR is spotted than he has to work more. What people call 'skill' of a TR player is nothing else than the ability to run away faster during stealth so that people can not reveal him even if they do from time to time - and so he is able to kite groups around points for eternity.
Suggestions to improve NW:
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
I still fail to see how he poses a problem for a team if that's all he can do. If you beat the rest of the team (which should be possible since they are a man short who's doing nothing but being annoying) and cap 2 nodes he's still gonna lose no matter how long he contests that node. Same thing with a GF/GWF who's contesting a node. Leave him to it and capture the other 2. You'll get more points and you won't have to deal with that 1 annoying player.
People need to learn the name of the game is domination. Not "who's the better killer".
Uh huh, but youre missing that your team will also be people down. Best case scenario, yes a smart team will leave 1 to deal with that annoying tr, so it will go back to even numbers. But if youre in say, a pug team, most likely your entire team will go after the annoying player, leaving the enemy team to cap 2 nodes while that permastealth did his job by annoying at least 1 person. And lets not even point out a premade team with 2 permastealth tr's... ive had to face that team setup as an iv gwf, and while I can deal with contesting 1 of them, the other contests a different node, or ganging up on me, leaving quite the roflstomp game. Id rather deal with 2 iv gwf's than 2 permastealths.
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
That's fine as far as it goes, but in essence you're blaming 1 player for tricking 4 players into being stupid. Is it just me or are you blaming the wrong people? And why have even 1 person contesting that node? Let him take it and move en force to one of the other nodes. He can't hold more than 1 by himself, and that won't win him the match.
And yes, with more Perma's your problem gets bigger. but no bigger than if it were 2 GF contesting 2 nodes.
Im just taking this from my point of view. I pug pvp games, as ive said in past posts. So I end up leaving that tr alone(unless I was gwf, which in that case id contest the node), but if I tried to explain what to do to my teammates, id hear silence 99% of the time. The consensus I was getting from tr's in the thread is "im not OP, gwf's are OP" blame game. My point is that both classes in the end are hard to deal with in pvp, and they of all classes cant throw blame at each other, as theyre both annoying to deal with. I was just pointing out TRs "OPness" only because most are saying that theyre easy to deal with, whereas they want gwf nerfed, because theyre hard to deal with(lol). With tenacity, ive noticed that basically any class can tank a gwf given build, sets, equipment. But im still hearing more "GWF's are OP nerf them, whereas TR's don't want nerfed".
My tactic against a gwf: keep pressure on him, when hes unstoppable dodge and throw some light DoT's on him, then put pressure back on when he's not unstoppable. Was that tactic so hard if its so easy to knock a tr out of stealth?
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
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ggyuMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Im just taking this from my point of view. I pug pvp games, as ive said in past posts. So I end up leaving that tr alone(unless I was gwf, which in that case id contest the node), but if I tried to explain what to do to my teammates, id hear silence 99% of the time. The consensus I was getting from tr's in the thread is "im not OP, gwf's are OP" blame game. My point is that both classes in the end are hard to deal with in pvp, and they of all classes cant throw blame at each other, as theyre both annoying to deal with. I was just pointing out TRs "OPness" only because most are saying that theyre easy to deal with, whereas they want gwf nerfed, because theyre hard to deal with(lol). With tenacity, ive noticed that basically any class can tank a gwf given build, sets, equipment. But im still hearing more "GWF's are OP nerf them, whereas TR's don't want nerfed".
My tactic against a gwf: keep pressure on him, when hes unstoppable dodge and throw some light DoT's on him, then put pressure back on when he's not unstoppable. Was that tactic so hard if its so easy to knock a tr out of stealth?
I will keep adding this Notice Not all GWF, Only the Sential build GWF is OP.
But Destroyer Build GWF Is not OP (They going to pump it damage as prove for it not op) While The TR All Builds are Op enough to make him perman Hide!!!!!
Oh by the great Ao, stop crying already. Sentinels get a beastly defense, destroyers get a beastly offense. in their respective way they are both master of any TR they come across. Don't try to hide your own stupid way of playing by blaming another player. It's not his fault you keep trying to find him.
Destroyer beastly offense ? really ? that why they going to pump that beastly offense ._.
Man learn about GWF Builds first and second all people said TR is op and who say something else people like you play TR pfff
Oh by the great Ao, stop crying already. Sentinels get a beastly defense, destroyers get a beastly offense. in their respective way they are both master of any TR they come across. Don't try to hide your own stupid way of playing by blaming another player. It's not his fault you keep trying to find him.
^This. I don't know why people don't understand that. Sentinel can last longer, Destroyer can kill faster. They both have their own way of being great in pvp.
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
^This. I don't know why people don't understand that. Sentinel can last longer, Destroyer can kill faster. They both have their own way of being great in pvp.
He just want to say that GWF Can kill Perman hide TR easily lol =.=
Comments
That's what youre missing... The TR wont be "having problems" with the HR. Quite the opposite. Now, with a class that in the end is squishy, already getting reamed by a permastealth, gets rolled up on by an enemy teammate(s), then the best an hr can do is die fighting. If the opposite happens, all a TR has to do is regain stealth(which isn't hard with ITC/SS combos) and go away. Same situation, any other class is dead, whereas the TR can safely get away to annoy at another point, or later harass again.
Are u for real? Any good HR eat up the TRs if they do the timing well, which isnt to hard. Ater the TR used its ITC, he will throw SS at u and go back to stealh. THIS is when u use Fox melee since he got ITC on cd u will burst that TR down hard as hell. I play TR, GWF and HR at endgame myself and i know how all classes work and their rotaion. Do u have a TR yourself? From what i can understand out of your posts u have no clue how the trs actually works. And if u die that easy on your HR when u trying to kill a pvp-TR, you simple use either wrong spec, gear or both. A perma TR should NOT be that big issue for a HR thats all im saying.
/blush
As a TR, HRs are my hardest opponents, much more so than GWF. Against GWFs, a TR has to be able to avoid all hits, and then after 3-4 rotations (about a minute) the TR will win with little to no damage. Every time the TR gets proned, he loses about half his health in general (You can't cast ITC while proned). So I agree with Pando that TR vs GWF is pretty balanced. If the GWF lands a couple hits, the TR dies, otherwise the GWF wins. It's a classic predator versus prey system.
As an HR, all you have to do is keep moving back and forth from one side of the node to the other. TRs can only use cloud of steel in stealth at range, and that only lasts ~3 seconds for a 24 second cooldown. If the TR comes into melee range, use fox shift. In general, fox shift will drain 1/2 of the rogues stealth bar. When the TR is in ITC, avoid at all costs. Pretend the rogue is a GWF in unstoppable, and run like your life depends on it. After ITC, the rogue will have to go back into stealth, so move back to where he was and fox shift again. Needless to say, you want to keep thorn ward on the node as often as possible, and you never want to stay in melee range if you don't have fox shift. The best time to put thorn ward on is right after the rogue goes into stealth, as he will have to evacuate the node if he doesn't want his stealth to disappear prematurely. You want to sit in your thorn ward while he's in stealth, so he can't come hit you. You have 6 dodges, if a rogue lands a flurry on you, dodge away twice. Flurry takes about 2 seconds to start up, and if you're not in range once the third strike is ready, the rogue just wasted 1/3 of his stealth time. The most important part, is to stay mobile. A rogue has to guess where you will be in 2 seconds to land a flurry, so your goal is to foil his guess.
I really don't see what the problem is from an HRs perspective, going so far as to say that HRs have the advantage against rogues. This might not be the case after the nerf coming to HRs in mod 3, and I'm in no way saying HRs are OP, as rogues have advantages against other classes too.
i dunno, most hunters i consider easy targets but the jumping hunters r just ridiculous
a jumping hunter is capable of constantly maintaining the same distance between us for the entire fight. even in ITC, he can interrupt me and stop me from running towards him for a good half a sec. even with deft strike, i can only remain in melee range long enough to use lashing as he will quickly back away in a few seconds. not to mention their high deflect making them tanky. i'm actually surprised just 1 hunter defeated 3 melee classes while only losing 50% hp.
of course, i'm one of the combat rogues so idk if a stealthy one can handle such a hunter better
Thx for putting more words in it then I did, but all in all this is jsut what i tried to tell the guy:)
(few months later) Nerf GWF = Play HR without anyone to counter you (No OP GWF or OP Perma to deal with)
(few months later) Nerf HR
At that point, I'm hoping for a poorly implemented buff or nerf will imbalance things to make a new "best" class or an entirely new class will be introduced and have OP pvp abilities.
I'll make sure I stay up to date on my OP builds to always give you guys something to nerf, but for now just focus on nerfing TR so I can move to my GWF and have an even easier time in PvP. Thanks for your unyielding support.
This time pump Destroyer GWF And thinking about nerf or make some edit to TR
The TR aren't invisible. I'm TR myself and I realized this while vs are TR's. If you actually pay attention instead of flipping out you'd notice that the TRs cast a shadow every second and there name appears for 13 mili seconds every 6 seconds. That's how I kill TRs so easily. Really not hard and I get about 15 kills per Domination 6 deaths (GWF, HR, CW) are the only ones that can kill me. Once a GWF killed me with 3 hits, Here's how you do it (never got that far on a GWF so come up with the names yourself) Wait until the TR starts striking (The blades appear even when in stealth) Then hit them with At Will attack until they come from stealth. Knock them down with your sword, do that thing where you turn in to about 5 people and smash them down (even if they run it still gets them prob a bug) and then heal yourself because they probably used lashing blade by now. Then hit them with a bunch of CCs and attack boom your rogue is dead. It's fairly easy because while you're doing this all of the rogues attacks chain so it shouldn't be hard. Problem solved the only OP class is the GWF because they can kill enemies in only a few hits where as rogues have to go in to stealth and use all of their encounters +At Wills about 5 times if doing a 1 on 1 with a GWF. The stealth of the rogue needs to be fixed because honestly being able to see the rogues name and their shadow ruins the idea of invisibility
Boy you so funny you come up with something you even don't understand first of all Tr names appear in only one case if they near you enough while you hitting, Second invisibility isn't broken it's your mind, Third The Game Devs said that there perma hide and they working on that so shhh
plus Know the CDs of Encounters of GWF vs CD of encounters of TR
Yes. It means the rest of the team's so sucky that the TR had to go exhaust himself.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Are you serious? CWs are the worst choice since the PVP changes. They have no burst damage, very little CC, no CC immunity, and most are amazingly squishy.
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
GWF just need to Prone ---> does his/her rotation ---> Voila, you only have <30% HP left if you're not already dead, even Low GS ones could hurt you pretty badly...
I played a GWF today and I realized that they were great and it was easy to kill people. They weren't unstoppable or OP I have to admit considering CWs could destroy them while they're focusing on other players but they could last a long time 3 vs 1
TR can only do good 1 on 1 and that's all. They could never and I exclaim never take down 3 people who are fully focused on him/her perma stealth or not. So they are not OP you just have to pay attention and it must be my CP because I can see the shadows they cast and their name plates perfectly every time one goes stealth.
CW was a really fun class for me. Maybe I'd rather make that my main instead of a TR. I found it very easy to kill GWFs TRs HRs and other CWs. I do really good with that class maybe why I assumed it was over powered so I apologize by saying they were over powered, I suppose I'm just really good with this class. They're easy to dominate with. Ask Nocturne she had about 26 kills and 2 deaths.
It all depends on who you're fighting. I don't get this thread because obviously a TR is gonna think a CW is over powered. Obviously a GWF will think a TR is over powered and obviously a HR with think a GWF is over powered. Of course a CW doesn't have anyone they think is over powered because it all depends on how good you are. If you're a good CW nobody would be over powered but if you're a bad one everyone would be over powered.
It's pretty much like this for every class. If you aren't doing good with your GWF try different classes don't sit around begging to down TRs because you can't beat one. Do you really want to disappoint 1,000 TRs so you can start dominating. What's the logic in "If I can't beat them then they're too strong" nobody should even complain about other classes getting nerfed until they've tried out every class to see which one fits them. This is the wise things I've learned today
And this is what ive been waiting to hear? are YOU for real? You just said that youre a combat rogue, i.e. you use melee abilities MORE THAN YOURE PERMA STEALTH ONES. Youre flip flopping your arguments now, saying on one hand that you take out rangers real easy, then in the next saying theyre a pain to deal with... Which one? you cant say theyre too hard AND too easy to take out at the same time. I can say that a permastealth(bad) I can knock out of stealth on any other class quite easily, whereas a permastealth(good), I end up chasing around to no avail... and by the way, I don't use thorn ward on my ranger, because when the ranger came out, and I used that in pvp, guess what? tr's whined horribly about it. So, accept that something CAN knock you out of stealth, but don't argue AGAINST it, then later say "why weren't you using thorn ward, were soooo easy to take out of stealth". Sorry, but the second rangers came out, used that tactic in pvp and heard endless whining from tr's that we had an encounter to contest nodes with you, and rangers seemed to be the foil for gwf's and cw's... then the whining came out. "waaah, he stops cw's shard", "waaah he stops unstoppable", "waaah, he can drain my stealth with an aoe on node". If you want balance, don't whine about the weaknesses of your class, and the strengths the other classes play against you.
Like I originally said, a combat rogue is BY FAR different from a permastealth one... That's whats been generally talked about this entire time. Go ask a true permastealth tr if he runs lashing blade... youll get laughed in the face. They lowered their damage to slot encounters that ensure their stealth lasts longer(hence the name, permastealth). They tend to use bilethorn enchant to slowly kill their opponents, while they stay in stealth. If youre using lashing blade, youre not permastealth. They slot 3 encounters(SS, Impact Shot, and switch between ITC and another(idk, my rogue that I made in beta was combat as well)) specifically geared to stay IN STEALTH, and attack FROM STEALTH.
Please at least look up what youre talking about, before you start insulting someone on a topic that you obviously weren't listening to...
I understand this, and will take your expert opinions at heart man. But in return, I don't want to hear the whining about gwf's either, as both pre- and post tenacity, ive taken down gwf's on occasion with all my classes in 1v1 situations. When it comes to them, all it takes is timing and good rotations as well. What im saying is that gwf is no more op than permastealth tr, but at least a gwf can be targeted w/o the aforementioned running around swiping all over. Hence, I consider the gwf easier to deal with.
Nope, at all. These rules are made to take advantage of the moments when the TR is vulneable.
Again: it's all in the strategy i quoted before, in my first post here. The TR uses ITC and dodge rolls as immunities, or that other multiple-hitting move (don't know the name). Usually, it works like i described: they go ITC, tank you, dodge roll away fading into stealth, evade and attack in stealth, then come back with ITC and repeat. When they are in ITC/ any immune state, you just have 2 options: you can 1) tank them with unstoppable to stay close to them and then chase them when they try to dodge roll away/ use your ranged stuns/ prones on them when they land from the first dodge roll, or 2) avoid them, run around the node keeping your roar/ frontline pointed in their direction, make them believe you're not going to attack. They will focus on attacking, loosen their timing when shifting from ITC to dodge roll and stealth, and give you an opening to prone them.
If you can't fool them or follow them these ways, when they go stealth you can follow the rules i posted before, which are made, and comkonly used by exped GWFs, to counter a TR when he is on a node and stealthed.
Again: use your head. There's no magic power allowing you to face a strong TR. This is an ACTION mmorpg. You've to use the "action" part and your head to outhink and outmanouver your opponent.
These are the tactics. It does not make magically easy to catch a strong TR. The more skilled ones you can meet will still avoid your damage a lot, and that's why GWFs have also their tankiness, with tons of HP, defense and deflect. Such TRs, as i said, use duelist flurry and bilethorn to deal slow, constant damage to you. If your GWF is well built and geared, you can tank their damage for a LONG time, while chasing them. And once you catch them, chain prone combo for lots of damage and pressure them like a rabid dog. Hit them with >DoT damage (deep gash, plaguefire, exc...) to drain their stealth and mess up their little immunity-stealth rotation. You chase them, then they will go ITC again. Then repeat the above strategy from the start, mixing different tactics to not be predictable.
Is it an easy fight? Nope. It's balanced. But you have the weapons to fight it. And a big part is experience, skills, and your ability to use your head to fool/ out-think your opponent.
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
Uh huh, but youre missing that your team will also be people down. Best case scenario, yes a smart team will leave 1 to deal with that annoying tr, so it will go back to even numbers. But if youre in say, a pug team, most likely your entire team will go after the annoying player, leaving the enemy team to cap 2 nodes while that permastealth did his job by annoying at least 1 person. And lets not even point out a premade team with 2 permastealth tr's... ive had to face that team setup as an iv gwf, and while I can deal with contesting 1 of them, the other contests a different node, or ganging up on me, leaving quite the roflstomp game. Id rather deal with 2 iv gwf's than 2 permastealths.
Im just taking this from my point of view. I pug pvp games, as ive said in past posts. So I end up leaving that tr alone(unless I was gwf, which in that case id contest the node), but if I tried to explain what to do to my teammates, id hear silence 99% of the time. The consensus I was getting from tr's in the thread is "im not OP, gwf's are OP" blame game. My point is that both classes in the end are hard to deal with in pvp, and they of all classes cant throw blame at each other, as theyre both annoying to deal with. I was just pointing out TRs "OPness" only because most are saying that theyre easy to deal with, whereas they want gwf nerfed, because theyre hard to deal with(lol). With tenacity, ive noticed that basically any class can tank a gwf given build, sets, equipment. But im still hearing more "GWF's are OP nerf them, whereas TR's don't want nerfed".
My tactic against a gwf: keep pressure on him, when hes unstoppable dodge and throw some light DoT's on him, then put pressure back on when he's not unstoppable. Was that tactic so hard if its so easy to knock a tr out of stealth?
I will keep adding this Notice Not all GWF, Only the Sential build GWF is OP.
But Destroyer Build GWF Is not OP (They going to pump it damage as prove for it not op) While The TR All Builds are Op enough to make him perman Hide!!!!!
Destroyer beastly offense ? really ? that why they going to pump that beastly offense ._.
Man learn about GWF Builds first and second all people said TR is op and who say something else people like you play TR pfff
^This. I don't know why people don't understand that. Sentinel can last longer, Destroyer can kill faster. They both have their own way of being great in pvp.
He just want to say that GWF Can kill Perman hide TR easily lol =.=