You're telling me you went in there alone? You win. I take back my earlier remark. You're not sleeping. Going alone in an area ruled by PvP guilds, with no backup isn't sleeping. It's stupid beyond belief. It doesn't matter if it was a perma TR or a gang of DCs. You would have died anyway.
Rules by Guilds ? Didn't hear about random realms that open auto and send you around which you can switch between them ? XD
Actually this thread is bad. TR have been nerfed so much that they actually suck, the only people you see complaining are those who are terrible at PVP. GWF are overpowered and they can easily kill enemies alone including TR. Please work on your skills before asking for the 15 nerf of this class. Play a TR and see how easy PVP is please
Actually this thread is bad. TR have been nerfed so much that they actually suck, the only people you see complaining are those who are terrible at PVP. GWF are overpowered and they can easily kill enemies alone including TR. Please work on your skills before asking for the 15 nerf of this class. Play a TR and see how easy PVP is please
Actually, if you say TRs are bad in PvP, you have to learn how to play them. Cause a well built, well played TR in PvP is, as i said, up there with GWF tanks, or even a bit better, depending on how skilled the player is.
Right now, it's on top of PvP ranking among classes. And any high level PvPer will tell you the same.
So, instead of complaining, i think that some TRs should get to know their class better and learn how to play it.
Also, stop using GWFs as an excuses. While other classes are underpowered compared to GWF tanks in PvP, TRs and HRs sure are NOT one of these classes.
TRs, GWFs and HRs, if used and built properly, are very close and balanced in PvP. If it does not work that way for you, you either lack gear, build or skills. Or all these 3 things together.
So, to quote you, before saying "TRs actually suck", you should may be "work on your skills".
Actually, if you say TRs are bad in PvP, you have to learn how to play them. Cause a well built, well played TR in PvP is, as i said, up there with GWF tanks, or even a bit better, depending on how skilled the player is.
Right now, it's on top of PvP ranking among classes. And any high level PvPer will tell you the same.
So, instead of complaining, i think that some TRs should get to know their class better and learn how to play it.
Also, stop using GWFs as an excuses. While other classes are underpowered compared to GWF tanks in PvP, TRs and HRs sure are NOT one of these classes.
TRs, GWFs and HRs, if used and built properly, are very close and balanced in PvP. If it does not work that way for you, you either lack gear, build or skills. Or all these 3 things together.
So, to quote you, before saying "TRs actually suck", you should may be "work on your skills".
Nice. Can I add a comment? No matter how op a iv gwf is, he can be ganged up on and taken down. But ive seen a permastealth tr get attacked by a dozen people in gg, and he got away w/o dying. If this was a discussion of which class is more op in pvp, which one would it be?
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
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ggyuMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Nice. Can I add a comment? No matter how op a iv gwf is, he can be ganged up on and taken down. But ive seen a permastealth tr get attacked by a dozen people in gg, and he got away w/o dying. If this was a discussion of which class is more op in pvp, which one would it be?
For sure that Great weapon fighter is over powered lol , Funny part they keep taking about sential GWF Which is annoying for other Destroyer GWF, They never talk about Destroyer GWF which isn't that over powered like sential one and BTw ( 50% of players is destroyer ) while the Permanstealth tr is 95% of players LOl
The GWF. Requiring people to gang up on you to kill you is entirely superior to the ability to run away from a fight without getting killed.
Youre missing the post... A PERMASTEALTH TRICKSTER CAN BE CHASED BY A DOZEN PPL AND GET AWAY WITH NO DEATHS, WHILE A GWF(no matter if he went iv sent or iv destroyer) CAN BE GANGED UP ON AND KILLED.
I call op to the class that can survive more, and that's a permastealth tr.
Im not saying gwf isn't op, im saying permastealth is EVEN MORE op than that.
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
Stop being silly. You don't win any games by being chased around. Except maybe if the people chasing you around are very stupid and think it is more important to kill you than to capture or contest the platform for some reason.
All it requires to keep that TR in check is one other guy that knows how to hold a platform. As you yourself said, the GWF requires ganging up on. The TR doesn't. Though stupid people will often gang up on him anyway, because clearly the problem will disappear if he gets killed. Or something.
Youre missing that pvp is about contesting the nodes... a permastealth tr can contest a node a lot longer, and with a lot more people chasing him, than a gwf can. Ive seen games where the enemy team won, because a permastealth tr can perma-contest a node, whereas a gwf can get killed by multiple enemies' attacking him. That situation in and of itself convinces me that a tr is just a little more op than a gwf.
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
Stop being an ignorant person. If a class can solo epic dungeons and tank an entire team in PvP, without getting killed while wearing LEATHER due to a obviously broken class feature (stealth), the class feature has to be brought on par with the other classes' features. As oh sooooo many criers have stated about GWF already, one cannot have it all and TR definitely has it all.n Defending such an extremely unfair advantage/overpowered feature is almost pointless, because even the devs themselves by now have admitted that it is not working as intended.
I bet their stealth will deplete massively from attacking (the way it always should have been, in the first place)
I also would love to see their damage, getting reduced by -40 maybe -50% while not being stealthed, in case they decided to go the "stealthy" path, they should suffer a drawback from doing so.
Seeya.
Well, they do sacrifice damage to go perma, so at least theres that, but in the end damage doesn't matter if you can avoid being targeted damage, and have it set to avoid being targeted permanently(hence the name, permastealth)
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
No, I'm not missing that. The scenario you outline is based on people playing stupid. If there is a permastealth TR on the platform, you only need to keep one guy on the platform along with him to keep it contested. Depending on what class he is, that might be tricky for him, or easy. The mistake a lot of stupid people do is try to gang up on the TR to kill him, because they think that will make him go away or something. On the other hand, in the scenario you mentioned, the GWF *required* getting ganged up on to be killed off. That's where the difference lies. The TR can be countered by a single player, the GWF will beat anyone else one on one. (It used to be possible to keep GWFs somewhat in check by throwing them around, but thanks to Tenacity among other things, that's less of an option now.)
That doesn't mean I think stealth is entirely okay as it is, just that dealing with a good perma-stealth TR is easier than dealing with a good GWF.
Oh, im not arguing with that. Just that I do pug pvp 99% of the time, and its hard to tell a pug team to do just that(have 1 player contest against tr), so I end up seeing the aforementioned scenario. Also, that a cw or hr cant contest the node, because their abilities count on targeting the tr(which, as I said earlier, a permastealth cant be targeted). DCs, GWFs, GFs can contest the node because they have ways to withstand the TRs assault. Im only considering the TR more op BECAUSE they cant be targeted, whereas a gwf at least can.
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
I bet their stealth will deplete massively from attacking (the way it always should have been, in the first place)
I also would love to see their damage, getting reduced by -40 maybe -50% while not being stealthed, in case they decided to go the "stealthy" path, they should suffer a drawback from doing so.
Oh, im not arguing with that. Just that I do pug pvp 99% of the time, and its hard to tell a pug team to do just that(have 1 player contest against tr), so I end up seeing the aforementioned scenario. Also, that a cw or hr cant contest the node, because their abilities count on targeting the tr(which, as I said earlier, a permastealth cant be targeted). DCs, GWFs, GFs can contest the node because they have ways to withstand the TRs assault. Im only considering the TR more op BECAUSE they cant be targeted, whereas a gwf at least can.
Actually, an HR is a pretty good choice against a perma. AOE at-wills and Fox Shift get around the targeting issue, and even Thorn Ward will show you where invisible rouge is.
Actually, an HR is a pretty good choice against a perma. AOE at-wills and Fox Shift get around the targeting issue, and even Thorn Ward will show you where invisible rouge is.
What aoe at will? I use rapid shot/aimed shot in pvp.
Fox's Shift targets? ive tried that before, to no avail. What, do you spam it when you think a tr's around(not sarcastic, just wondering).
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
Bingo. All you people *****ing about TRs just plain suck at PvP. IF you are skilled and properly geared for PvP a TR is no more dangerous than any other class. The only time a perma-stealth TR can dominate a match is if your team is stupid, as noted above. The only time they are truly dangerous is if they are on the top-end. But shouldn't they be?
I'm a **** good TR and very well-geared, yet if I go up against the very top-end premades I'm going to get stomped. It happens. You people think you can win every match? Get a life.
I wont cry about a perma tr, if you don't cry about iv gwf's. that's the only thing I hear tr's cry about.
By the way, as I explained earlier, im not talking about premades. Im talking about me pugging where my teammates end up being 5-6k lower gs'ed than me, fighting premade teams just loaded with 16k+ gs enemies, with pvp artifact, pvp pots, soulforged. There's a bit of a difference there.
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
Omg, there is so much l2p issues here. If u cant track down a permaTR on the node while doing 1on1 or even 3on1 (the 1 beeing the TR) you are just a bad player and cant make a good idea where the TR is. The thing is, you MUST find the tr while he is in stealth and attack him. That either prones him (depends on your class) or force him to pop ITC and mess up his rotation.
Omg, there is so much l2p issues here. If u cant track down a permaTR on the node while doing 1on1 or even 3on1 (the 1 beeing the TR) you are just a bad player and cant make a good idea where the TR is. The thing is, you MUST find the tr while he is in stealth and attack him. That either prones him (depends on your class) or force him to pop ITC and mess up his rotation.
Omg, there is so much l2p issues in your statement here too. Do you know what youll get if you just wildly swing your weapon around, throwing your cc's down when an INVISIBLE AND UNTARGETABLE ENEMY IS NEARBY? They will laugh in your face. YOU HAVE TO SEE YOUR TARGET BEFORE THROWING ANYTHING AT THEM. For the millionth time, at least a gwf can be targeted.
In return, if you cant 1v1 a gwf(seeing as your implying that its sooo easy to defeat a tr 1v1, especially with a squishy class), then you need to "l2p" there too. Gwf's are easier to take down than a tr, because all a smart player has to do is cc him until he pops unstoppable, dodge him rushing you, throw a little DoT's here and there, then really lay into him as soon as his unstoppable runs out.
So, by your own admission, no class is currently too op in pvp. So no more tr whining, and especially no more gwf whining.
TA DA!!!
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
when an INVISIBLE AND UNTARGETABLE ENEMY IS NEARBY? They will laugh in your face. YOU HAVE TO SEE YOUR TARGET BEFORE THROWING ANYTHING AT THEM.
IS that so? So u cant predict where the TR is (he makes noise while attacking btw), land a FS and make him prone? OR as a HR use thornward, switch to melee and spam fox untill u hit the TR? Guess that is impossible.....
IS that so? So u cant predict where the TR is (he makes noise while attacking btw), land a FS and make him prone? OR as a HR use thornward, switch to melee and spam fox untill u hit the TR? Guess that is impossible.....
And the tr will be doing nothing while youre running around? they can move too, as well as use their abilities as well, to keep their own stealth meter up. Except that they can target you, whereas you cannot. A tr using moves while being invisible and untargetable? Guess that is impossible too...
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
And the tr will be doing nothing while youre running around? they can move too, as well as use their abilities as well, to keep their own stealth meter up. Except that they can target you, whereas you cannot. A tr using moves while being invisible and untargetable? Guess that is impossible too...
He is not untargetable! Get that first, ofc he will run around if he is not stupid. But what can he do? The thorn from a hr takes up the hole node, so u can see when his getting hit this will make his stealth vanish much much faster, and HR run rly fast and having autoattack while spamming Fox from melee.
That doesn't mean I think stealth is entirely okay as it is, just that dealing with a good perma-stealth TR is easier than dealing with a good GWF.
That is not true, not one bit.
A strong TR often can mix his immunities and stealth to troll multiple enemies on a point. While in ITC, can melee target one of the enemies, and dodge roll away while being still immune, while going stealth. Can get off the node for a short period of time regenerating/ healing, and then get back on it to contest it, and repeat. And can do all this while throwing daggers with bilethorn enchant on it, to deplete the HP of the squishier enemy. Then can SE on the enemy and take one down. Or just keep trolling the enemy.
Usually, also, such TRs are tanky, so even when caught up, they still have the option to go ITC, tank, dodge roll immune away, stealth and evade going off node for a short time, while healing/ recovering, and come back.
When a strong TR fights in pugs, you can see this.
A strong IV sentinel GWF is hard to deal with cause can tank a lot while slowly go down, and can still have enough attack power to be a threat. The difference is, the GWF is Always visible, never immune to damage. Can be easily cancelled with prones to prevent him from going unstoppable and debuffing him to deal him good damage even while he is in unstoppable. The GWF can't really recover, cause he is visible, no matter where he goes. So, basically, while fighting a overgeared GWF in pugs can feel like hitting a wall, it still just requires coordination and teamwork to take him down.
Both builds and classes have equal strenght and tools to currently troll on a point against multiple enemies in pugs.
If TRs feel like they are weaker than GWFs, it's cause they don't know how to properly play their class in PvP.
If a GWF feels like he can't contest a point against a TR, it's the same. Learn your class and learn how to fight the other class.
IV GWF tank vs TR hybrid-perma build, with proper PvP build and gear, is the most balanced and skill-requiring fight at the moment. Both the GWF and the TR need to stay focused and be skilled to win.
This is not an opinion. This is how things are when you fight against end-game PvPers with these classes.
I don't really think one of these 2 classes can complain about the other.
About stealth rework: it's wrong to act like TRs are the only ones getting "nerfed". GWFs are being reworked as well and tanks will have their damage output reduced. And i'm pretty sure the changes will not stop until all classes are balanced in both PvE and PvP.
No need to cry, just give feedback, accept the changes and adapt your build/ playstyle.
read what i posted in the beginning. It's explained in details how a GWF vs TR fight goes, and what a GWF should do, and usually do.
When fighting to contest a node, you Always know the stealthed TR is in that little circle.
First rule: a stealthed TR usually hides in the farther part of the node. Sprint to the opposite side of the node, 90% of the TRs will be there.
Second rule: when spotted, a TR will dodge roll away. Look at the direction he's rolling to, and point your frontline there, or run there.
Third rule: if the TR is really good at evading, try to fool him. Run like a chicken, make it seem you're clueless. He will think you're an easy prey and press you from behind. Keep your roar or frontline ready and point it behind you, then use it when he's not expecting it and is focused on just attacking you.
Fourth rule: if the TR is really good, why the hell do you use frontline. It's a 19 seconds CD power, with a reduced prone time due to tenacity. Roar CD is almost half the FS cooldown, it's not counted as CC, so the stun last longer than frontline surge prone. And you can use it more often. It's not a bad choice against strong TRs.
Fifth rule: if, by chance, you spot the TR while he is in stealth and vulnerable, pressure him. Hit him to proc deep gash and deplete his stealth meter. Threat rush and keep pressuring him. If you don't have threat rush, slot Bravery. Bravery is a huge mobility boost and a 10% deflect chance buff. Against a TR spamming duelist flurry on you, even a 10% deflect chance buff can count, and can proc your sharandar boon, dealing damage. Pressure. Don't let him play as he wish. Keep moving, keep running around the node. If he's busy evading, he can't attack as much as he want.
He is not untargetable! Get that first, ofc he will run around if he is not stupid. But what can he do? The thorn from a hr takes up the hole node, so u can see when his getting hit this will make his stealth vanish much much faster, and HR run rly fast and having autoattack while spamming Fox from melee.
And you expect the rest of the enemy team to be just sitting, watching this display of stupidity? this is pvp... there is no 1v1(at least not for long enough). How dumb will that hr look if he just spamming fox's shift, while the enemy team rolls up on him lol. The TRs true advantage is that not only can he stay invisible so long, that even 1 good tr can harass several members of the enemy team. And even if 1 person can make him unstealth, whats to keep the enemy from taking advantage of the one or more people on a node comically spamming stuff on a node, unaware of the enemy about to roflstomp you?
In summary, like previous poster said, l2p I guess. I can go with that. But I don't want to hear a single tr whining about gwf's ever again... Because theyre easier to deal with tactic-wise.
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
And you expect the rest of the enemy team to be just sitting, watching this display of stupidity? this is pvp... there is no 1v1(at least not for long enough). How dumb will that hr look if he just spamming fox's shift, while the enemy team rolls up on him lol. The TRs true advantage is that not only can he stay invisible so long, that even 1 good tr can harass several members of the enemy team. And even if 1 person can make him unstealth, whats to keep the enemy from taking advantage of the one or more people on a node comically spamming stuff on a node, unaware of the enemy about to roflstomp you?
In summary, like previous poster said, l2p I guess. I can go with that. But I don't want to hear a single tr whining about gwf's ever again... Because theyre easier to deal with tactic-wise.
There will be ALOT of 1on1 siutations on homenode or farcap, while the rest is batteling the midpoint. And if the enemyteam sends 1 guy to help the TR having a problem with the HR, your team sends one aswell to compensate. Or you try to take one of them out and stay alive for as long as you can. And by that your team will have a advantage on midcap since your team fight 3vs2.
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ggyuMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
read what i posted in the beginning. It's explained in details how a GWF vs TR fight goes, and what a GWF should do, and usually do.
When fighting to contest a node, you Always know the stealthed TR is in that little circle.
First rule: a stealthed TR usually hides in the farther part of the node. Sprint to the opposite side of the node, 90% of the TRs will be there.
Second rule: when spotted, a TR will dodge roll away. Look at the direction he's rolling to, and point your frontline there, or run there.
Third rule: if the TR is really good at evading, try to fool him. Run like a chicken, make it seem you're clueless. He will think you're an easy prey and press you from behind. Keep your roar or frontline ready and point it behind you, then use it when he's not expecting it and is focused on just attacking you.
Fourth rule: if the TR is really good, why the hell do you use frontline. It's a 19 seconds CD power, with a reduced prone time due to tenacity. Roar CD is almost half the FS cooldown, it's not counted as CC, so the stun last longer than frontline surge prone. And you can use it more often. It's not a bad choice against strong TRs.
Fifth rule: if, by chance, you spot the TR while he is in stealth and vulnerable, pressure him. Hit him to proc deep gash and deplete his stealth meter. Threat rush and keep pressuring him. If you don't have threat rush, slot Bravery. Bravery is a huge mobility boost and a 10% deflect chance buff. Against a TR spamming duelist flurry on you, even a 10% deflect chance buff can count, and can proc your sharandar boon, dealing damage. Pressure. Don't let him play as he wish. Keep moving, keep running around the node. If he's busy evading, he can't attack as much as he want.
Last rule: use your head.
Funny part All rules been break when the Tr Use at-wills immune or encounters immune
Comments
Rules by Guilds ? Didn't hear about random realms that open auto and send you around which you can switch between them ? XD
Actually, if you say TRs are bad in PvP, you have to learn how to play them. Cause a well built, well played TR in PvP is, as i said, up there with GWF tanks, or even a bit better, depending on how skilled the player is.
Right now, it's on top of PvP ranking among classes. And any high level PvPer will tell you the same.
So, instead of complaining, i think that some TRs should get to know their class better and learn how to play it.
Also, stop using GWFs as an excuses. While other classes are underpowered compared to GWF tanks in PvP, TRs and HRs sure are NOT one of these classes.
TRs, GWFs and HRs, if used and built properly, are very close and balanced in PvP. If it does not work that way for you, you either lack gear, build or skills. Or all these 3 things together.
So, to quote you, before saying "TRs actually suck", you should may be "work on your skills".
Nice. Can I add a comment? No matter how op a iv gwf is, he can be ganged up on and taken down. But ive seen a permastealth tr get attacked by a dozen people in gg, and he got away w/o dying. If this was a discussion of which class is more op in pvp, which one would it be?
For sure that Great weapon fighter is over powered lol , Funny part they keep taking about sential GWF Which is annoying for other Destroyer GWF, They never talk about Destroyer GWF which isn't that over powered like sential one and BTw ( 50% of players is destroyer ) while the Permanstealth tr is 95% of players LOl
Youre missing the post... A PERMASTEALTH TRICKSTER CAN BE CHASED BY A DOZEN PPL AND GET AWAY WITH NO DEATHS, WHILE A GWF(no matter if he went iv sent or iv destroyer) CAN BE GANGED UP ON AND KILLED.
I call op to the class that can survive more, and that's a permastealth tr.
Im not saying gwf isn't op, im saying permastealth is EVEN MORE op than that.
Youre missing that pvp is about contesting the nodes... a permastealth tr can contest a node a lot longer, and with a lot more people chasing him, than a gwf can. Ive seen games where the enemy team won, because a permastealth tr can perma-contest a node, whereas a gwf can get killed by multiple enemies' attacking him. That situation in and of itself convinces me that a tr is just a little more op than a gwf.
Well, they do sacrifice damage to go perma, so at least theres that, but in the end damage doesn't matter if you can avoid being targeted damage, and have it set to avoid being targeted permanently(hence the name, permastealth)
Oh, im not arguing with that. Just that I do pug pvp 99% of the time, and its hard to tell a pug team to do just that(have 1 player contest against tr), so I end up seeing the aforementioned scenario. Also, that a cw or hr cant contest the node, because their abilities count on targeting the tr(which, as I said earlier, a permastealth cant be targeted). DCs, GWFs, GFs can contest the node because they have ways to withstand the TRs assault. Im only considering the TR more op BECAUSE they cant be targeted, whereas a gwf at least can.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
What aoe at will? I use rapid shot/aimed shot in pvp.
Fox's Shift targets? ive tried that before, to no avail. What, do you spam it when you think a tr's around(not sarcastic, just wondering).
I wont cry about a perma tr, if you don't cry about iv gwf's. that's the only thing I hear tr's cry about.
By the way, as I explained earlier, im not talking about premades. Im talking about me pugging where my teammates end up being 5-6k lower gs'ed than me, fighting premade teams just loaded with 16k+ gs enemies, with pvp artifact, pvp pots, soulforged. There's a bit of a difference there.
Omg, there is so much l2p issues in your statement here too. Do you know what youll get if you just wildly swing your weapon around, throwing your cc's down when an INVISIBLE AND UNTARGETABLE ENEMY IS NEARBY? They will laugh in your face. YOU HAVE TO SEE YOUR TARGET BEFORE THROWING ANYTHING AT THEM. For the millionth time, at least a gwf can be targeted.
In return, if you cant 1v1 a gwf(seeing as your implying that its sooo easy to defeat a tr 1v1, especially with a squishy class), then you need to "l2p" there too. Gwf's are easier to take down than a tr, because all a smart player has to do is cc him until he pops unstoppable, dodge him rushing you, throw a little DoT's here and there, then really lay into him as soon as his unstoppable runs out.
So, by your own admission, no class is currently too op in pvp. So no more tr whining, and especially no more gwf whining.
TA DA!!!
IS that so? So u cant predict where the TR is (he makes noise while attacking btw), land a FS and make him prone? OR as a HR use thornward, switch to melee and spam fox untill u hit the TR? Guess that is impossible.....
And the tr will be doing nothing while youre running around? they can move too, as well as use their abilities as well, to keep their own stealth meter up. Except that they can target you, whereas you cannot. A tr using moves while being invisible and untargetable? Guess that is impossible too...
He is not untargetable! Get that first, ofc he will run around if he is not stupid. But what can he do? The thorn from a hr takes up the hole node, so u can see when his getting hit this will make his stealth vanish much much faster, and HR run rly fast and having autoattack while spamming Fox from melee.
That is not true, not one bit.
A strong TR often can mix his immunities and stealth to troll multiple enemies on a point. While in ITC, can melee target one of the enemies, and dodge roll away while being still immune, while going stealth. Can get off the node for a short period of time regenerating/ healing, and then get back on it to contest it, and repeat. And can do all this while throwing daggers with bilethorn enchant on it, to deplete the HP of the squishier enemy. Then can SE on the enemy and take one down. Or just keep trolling the enemy.
Usually, also, such TRs are tanky, so even when caught up, they still have the option to go ITC, tank, dodge roll immune away, stealth and evade going off node for a short time, while healing/ recovering, and come back.
When a strong TR fights in pugs, you can see this.
A strong IV sentinel GWF is hard to deal with cause can tank a lot while slowly go down, and can still have enough attack power to be a threat. The difference is, the GWF is Always visible, never immune to damage. Can be easily cancelled with prones to prevent him from going unstoppable and debuffing him to deal him good damage even while he is in unstoppable. The GWF can't really recover, cause he is visible, no matter where he goes. So, basically, while fighting a overgeared GWF in pugs can feel like hitting a wall, it still just requires coordination and teamwork to take him down.
Both builds and classes have equal strenght and tools to currently troll on a point against multiple enemies in pugs.
If TRs feel like they are weaker than GWFs, it's cause they don't know how to properly play their class in PvP.
If a GWF feels like he can't contest a point against a TR, it's the same. Learn your class and learn how to fight the other class.
IV GWF tank vs TR hybrid-perma build, with proper PvP build and gear, is the most balanced and skill-requiring fight at the moment. Both the GWF and the TR need to stay focused and be skilled to win.
This is not an opinion. This is how things are when you fight against end-game PvPers with these classes.
I don't really think one of these 2 classes can complain about the other.
About stealth rework: it's wrong to act like TRs are the only ones getting "nerfed". GWFs are being reworked as well and tanks will have their damage output reduced. And i'm pretty sure the changes will not stop until all classes are balanced in both PvE and PvP.
No need to cry, just give feedback, accept the changes and adapt your build/ playstyle.
read what i posted in the beginning. It's explained in details how a GWF vs TR fight goes, and what a GWF should do, and usually do.
When fighting to contest a node, you Always know the stealthed TR is in that little circle.
First rule: a stealthed TR usually hides in the farther part of the node. Sprint to the opposite side of the node, 90% of the TRs will be there.
Second rule: when spotted, a TR will dodge roll away. Look at the direction he's rolling to, and point your frontline there, or run there.
Third rule: if the TR is really good at evading, try to fool him. Run like a chicken, make it seem you're clueless. He will think you're an easy prey and press you from behind. Keep your roar or frontline ready and point it behind you, then use it when he's not expecting it and is focused on just attacking you.
Fourth rule: if the TR is really good, why the hell do you use frontline. It's a 19 seconds CD power, with a reduced prone time due to tenacity. Roar CD is almost half the FS cooldown, it's not counted as CC, so the stun last longer than frontline surge prone. And you can use it more often. It's not a bad choice against strong TRs.
Fifth rule: if, by chance, you spot the TR while he is in stealth and vulnerable, pressure him. Hit him to proc deep gash and deplete his stealth meter. Threat rush and keep pressuring him. If you don't have threat rush, slot Bravery. Bravery is a huge mobility boost and a 10% deflect chance buff. Against a TR spamming duelist flurry on you, even a 10% deflect chance buff can count, and can proc your sharandar boon, dealing damage. Pressure. Don't let him play as he wish. Keep moving, keep running around the node. If he's busy evading, he can't attack as much as he want.
Last rule: use your head.
And you expect the rest of the enemy team to be just sitting, watching this display of stupidity? this is pvp... there is no 1v1(at least not for long enough). How dumb will that hr look if he just spamming fox's shift, while the enemy team rolls up on him lol. The TRs true advantage is that not only can he stay invisible so long, that even 1 good tr can harass several members of the enemy team. And even if 1 person can make him unstealth, whats to keep the enemy from taking advantage of the one or more people on a node comically spamming stuff on a node, unaware of the enemy about to roflstomp you?
In summary, like previous poster said, l2p I guess. I can go with that. But I don't want to hear a single tr whining about gwf's ever again... Because theyre easier to deal with tactic-wise.
There will be ALOT of 1on1 siutations on homenode or farcap, while the rest is batteling the midpoint. And if the enemyteam sends 1 guy to help the TR having a problem with the HR, your team sends one aswell to compensate. Or you try to take one of them out and stay alive for as long as you can. And by that your team will have a advantage on midcap since your team fight 3vs2.
Funny part All rules been break when the Tr Use at-wills immune or encounters immune