With now HD and companions TR and GWFs are just sick in open world PVP. I handed out 15k+ Takedown crits on my Sentinel with Tenacity gear and couldn't be killed by 5+ players (1.5k Regen & LS, 40k HP). It's a lopsided affair.
Are YOU serious? Most TRs I know have 32k+HP and in the 30% deflect range, combined with tenacity around 18-20% If your lucky and get all crits and they dont deflect you may be able to kill them in 1 rotation, but good luck even getting 1 prone off since most of them are good enough to never be caught due to sneak attack and infiltrator giving them massive amounts of run speed bonus...
Dont forget ITC as well :P
Part of the issue with perma in world PVP is 1 perma can make it so nobody can mine black ice, and noone can find them because their run speed is as fast as a base mount... Ontop of that it only takes 1 quick dagger throw and you cant mine for near 5 seconds due to bile thorn...
So is it a problem? Yeah.... We had 5 man group all trying to find ONE perma TR yesterday and he evaded everyone, I was laughing because Healing Depression isnt even on the PTR right now in zone pvp or domination pvp so even if they caught him for 2 seconds, hed stealth and regen back pretty quickly...
At least it looks like the most profitable way to gain Black Ice is through Heroic encounters. So the enhanced mining in the PVP areas is not that big of an advantage.
Getting injuries in open world pvp is what ruins it for me.
Please remove injuries when we fight at pvp specific zones.
I dont dislike this actually, puts a little risk in PVPing... Heck Runescape was one of the best PVP games in the early 2000s because you lost your gear if you died... Would be nice if players thought twice about zone pvp...
At least it looks like the most profitable way to gain Black Ice is through Heroic encounters. So the enhanced mining in the PVP areas is not that big of an advantage.
This IMO should be changed so the best places to mine/obtain black ice are PVP related - especially with the above, injury on death, makes it really a risk/reward system...
They also REALLY need to expand the PVP area, I dont know if this was intentional or not, but over HALF the red zone on the map is blocked off... Dont forget there is Dwarven Valley most ppl havnt even accessed yet!
Back in my days when I played WAR players were getting different type of injuries based on what had killed them. If a monster - 10 mins debuff, which cost plenty of money to remove, if a player - 1 min debuff, cheap to remove. I'd be ok paying 1 silver each time I die in open PVP.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
need to have zenscore instead of gearscore matching in open world pvp. That way all those who have spent 100 of bucks on companions etc can all fight each other.
At least it looks like the most profitable way to gain Black Ice is through Heroic encounters. So the enhanced mining in the PVP areas is not that big of an advantage.
Yeah , now that I have had a chance to try it out it isn't as I expected , black ice nodes are nicely spread out and it seems to be easy enough to earn and I like the heroic encounters , don't even need to venture into pvp if you don't want to .
Dying when killed in pvp in icewind dale will give me injuries. That sucks, especially for poor squishy wizards. Please consider removing injuries for pvp deaths.
I noticed people started to use pve pots (the 8500 ones or better) in pvp. That makes it uninteresting, this and the lack of healing depression makes matches dull, slow, unless your foe has purple control pets, which makes it extremely brutal.
So far I didn't enjoy at all the pvp gameplay in icewind dale. Pets make matches clearly unbalanced, and my poor wizard didn't have the control or the damage (even with 15k gs) to kill people with full regen/pve pots and epic pets. I fought a TR who probably had a sylhp because my controls felt useless, extremely short and not even worth the encounter slot.
The reward I got for killing someone was absolutely pathetic. 1 black ice? come on. The best thing to do is just not to kill anyone, pass by foes and find a spot to mine, it's not even worth the hassle and time you spend kicking his ***. A good reward would at the very least be 15-20 black ice for a kill.
So if epic pets active bonuses, pve pots, and the lack of healing depression are here to stay I'll just don't get flagged for pvp in icewind dale, which is a pity because I really like pvp.
This IMO should be changed so the best places to mine/obtain black ice are PVP related - especially with the above, injury on death, makes it really a risk/reward system...
With how the system currently works? Absolutely not. Introduce Healing Depression, deactivate companions and PVE pots and we might have a discussion.
With how the system currently works? Absolutely not. Introduce Healing Depression, deactivate companions and PVE pots and we might have a discussion.
THese are a given, been posting like a mad man on companions. Just FYI healing depression isnt even on the PTR atm - even in domination so thats going to be fixed.
I cant imagine they are going to let PVE pots in the PVP zone... So yeah, these will be fixed.
So yes, PVP area needs to be expanded to the entire map size, not that small cut off area in the north (What is this a center for ANTS?! It needs to be atleast 3 times this size)
THEN put some really rich Black Ice nodes in there on a random spawn so players feel the greed to want to go in, but fear the risk of dying and getting injured.
THAT sounds like proper incentive and deterrent to me.
THese are a given, been posting like a mad man on companions. Just FYI healing depression isnt even on the PTR atm - even in domination so thats going to be fixed.
I cant imagine they are going to let PVE pots in the PVP zone... So yeah, these will be fixed.
So yes, PVP area needs to be expanded to the entire map size, not that small cut off area in the north (What is this a center for ANTS?! It needs to be atleast 3 times this size)
THEN put some really rich Black Ice nodes in there on a random spawn so players feel the greed to want to go in, but fear the risk of dying and getting injured.
THAT sounds like proper incentive and deterrent to me.
Well yes the nodes in the pvp zone are currently as rich as the ones in the pve zone. And so far I've seen no unique heroic encounter happening in the pvp area. This and the pathetic 1 black ice reward for killing someone makes me wondering if it's even worth getting flagged for pvp.
There is a lot of great feedback here.
Let me attempt to answer some questions/feedback and provide some more information on the PVP gameplay. Keep in mind that everything is subject to change and we are in day 2 of the first preview build.
There is a lot of passion around the topic of PVP and this new type of PVP for Neverwinter has a lot going on. It is not queued domination, or GS based and it is played in a zone that is both PVP and PVE. There are likely some things we are going to tune and even change but that will take time. Please play in as many areas as you can to get an idea of what pvp is like for the zone and all of the content in it.
This update and zone offers a variety of options to pvp play and an opportunity for some really cool emergent gameplay.
Keep the feedback coming!!
PVP Heroic Encounter-
The encounter is not currently active in the preview build
We are playing the latest version of the Heroic Encounter internally and hope that we can add it to IWP on Friday. This requires that everything plays nice.
PVP Nodes-
We are working on tuning their values. Right now they more interacts than nodes outside of the PVP area
Player PVP drops- (Black ice)
We are tuning the value and will probably land somewhere around 10-15 BI per kill.
Healing depression-
We will need to look at the numbers and make sure everything is working as expected.
Healing potions-
We are currently planning on having PVE potions usable in PVP but we are keeping a close eye on the gameplay. HD should be able to handle them.
One of the reasons that we wanted to allow them was to support PVP/E gameplay. Being able to only use PVP potions when flagged for PVP made doing Heroic Encounters around the zone, while flagged for pvp, nearly impossible.
The PVP Area-
The actual area of the PVP gameplay is the entire map. The small area (in red) is where you get flagged and take part in the PVP Heroic Encounter. Once you leave the "pvp area" you are still flagged for PVP. ONCE FLAGGED, YOU ARE FLAGGED FOR PVP UNTIL YOU DIE OR GO TO A CAMPFIRE NO MATTER WHERE YOU ARE IN THE ZONE
Companions in PVP-
For now the companions and the bonuses will remain on for this open PVP. When looking at the various types of PVP offerings we realized that this would be different than domination. The PVP gameplay in this next update is a lot different than domination. This is an area we are going to be watching the most.
As a side note, I understand that any competent pvp player will not be hosting pet battles while engaged in active PVP battles but I wonder if there is some emergent gameplay possible where players summon their pets to watch them fight. Maybe after the large battle is won and a company or warriors, sitting on a pile of bodies, can have a laugh as a Leprechaun and a Sprite battle it out. Place your... well you get it.
Injuries in PVP-
Currently this is the only risk for PVP and it is likely to remain the only risk. With players dropping black ice, the richer nodes and a lucrative PVP Heroic Encounter there will probably never be zero risk.
On the fly pvp flagging (on/off)-
We are very resistant to the idea of being able to set ones flag on the fly. This leads to so many other issues. While we will keep looking at the issue and the feedback is great, I think this allows for some abuse of the gameplay.
PVP flag countdown timer-
We originally had a countdown timer when entering PVP but several issues arose. Aside from being able to rush in and hit a node without the risk of being attacked, several players moving together and having their flag pop on around a single target was not fun. Even at 5 seconds the timer allowed people to get to strategic points and gank without the threat of being attacked. It also led to confusion when fighting. Who was a valid target was easily missed. The rule we arrived at was that anyone in the PVP area was flagged and fair game. Venturing out into the PVE area was a different gameplay. It made sense that a pvp flagged player would run across players from the other faction who were not flagged for PVP.
PVP flagging area-
On the map there is a large red area that is not exactly lined up with the world PVP trigger. I have a feeling that this will never be 100% although we will keep working on it. You should use the FX border around the PVP area as your guide to when you will be flagged for PVP. We are also going to work on making this FX border a little more noticeable.
PVP flagging area-
On the map there is a large red area that is not exactly lined up with the world PVP trigger. I have a feeling that this will never be 100% although we will keep working on it. You should use the FX border around the PVP area as your guide to when you will be flagged for PVP. We are also going to work on making this FX border a little more noticeable.
When I accidentially entered the PvP area, I thought that the flashing meant I was taking damage, not that I was about to be flagged for PvP. Also, if you're using the same message channel as the god awfully annoying "Someone opened a lockbox"-messages for your "You're about to be flagged for PvP"-messages, please find some other channel to advertise the lockboxes on. I have that area moved out of the way so it doesn't distract me with utterly pointless lockbox messages when I'm playing. I would prefer to be able to turn those messages off completely, if at all possible.
Healing potions-
We are currently planning on having PVE potions usable in PVP but we are keeping a close eye on the gameplay. HD should be able to handle them.
One of the reasons that we wanted to allow them was to support PVP/E gameplay. Being able to only use PVP potions when flagged for PVP made doing Heroic Encounters around the zone, while flagged for pvp, nearly impossible.
At the very least, can you block the 100% heal Greater stone of healing? That, in my opinion, is taking it too far.
PVP Heroic Encounter-
The encounter is not currently active in the preview build
We are playing the latest version of the Heroic Encounter internally and hope that we can add it to IWP on Friday. This requires that everything plays nice.
Looking forward to this! This will hopefully create even MORE incentive to go into the PVP area. There should be high incentive to engage here...
PVP Nodes-
We are working on tuning their values. Right now they more interacts than nodes outside of the PVP area
Not sure what this means, but looks like they will be "richer" nodes... Kudos!
Player PVP drops- (Black ice)
We are tuning the value and will probably land somewhere around 10-15 BI per kill.
Again Looks great!
Healing depression-
We will need to look at the numbers and make sure everything is working as expected.
Yup, currently not even on the PTR - both in domination AND zone pvp.
Healing potions-
We are currently planning on having PVE potions usable in PVP but we are keeping a close eye on the gameplay. HD should be able to handle them.
One of the reasons that we wanted to allow them was to support PVP/E gameplay. Being able to only use PVP potions when flagged for PVP made doing Heroic Encounters around the zone, while flagged for pvp, nearly impossible.
Horrible Idea... Rejuv potions, PVE potions and so many others "stone of health anyone?" These are pretty unfair advantages in pvp and while I know you want to create a more PVPVE environment... These things will really break PVP and it will turn into a Diablo 2 potion spam... Healing Depression (like mentioned) should affect PVE potions, and stone of health should be not available in this zone...
The PVP Area-
The actual area of the PVP gameplay is the entire map. The small area (in red) is where you get flagged and take part in the PVP Heroic Encounter. Once you leave the "pvp area" you are still flagged for PVP. This area is too small..... What about all that second half of this area sitting in the back?
Companions in PVP-
For now the companions and the bonuses will remain on for this open PVP. When looking at the various types of PVP offerings we realized that this would be different than domination. The PVP gameplay in this next update is a lot different than domination. This is an area we are going to be watching the most.
As a side note, I understand that any competent pvp player will not be hosting pet battles while engaged in active PVP battles but I wonder if there is some emergent gameplay possible where players summon their pets to watch them fight. Maybe after the large battle is won and a company or warriors, sitting on a pile of bodies, can have a laugh as a Leprechaun and a Sprite battle it out. Place your... well you get it.
Im sorry but this is the WORST idea... Pets offer FAR too many advantages - the most noticable one being a 50% CC resist pet... This is GAME BREAKING so PLEASE do not allow this.... I honestly dont see how you guys dont see this... Its not about "pet battles", if you want that, create a new system for it. This is something that DRASTICALLY changes the game and I have not talked to ONE person who thinks this is a good idea. YOu have players from all the top pvp guilds saying this is a bad idea and not listening... Seriously guys... This is like Tenebrous x 100 as far as broken-ness
Injuries in PVP-
Currently this is the only risk for PVP and it is likely to remain the only risk. With players dropping black ice, the richer nodes and a lucrative PVP Heroic Encounter there will probably never be zero risk.
LOVE this. There SHOULD be risk for going in this zone, and when you die there should be a quick "hesitation" to want to just run back and rush into the fight. This creates a slight amount of permanency to death otherwise itll just be endless waves and impossible for a team to feel "accomplished" in "wiping out the enemy". LOVE this.
On the fly pvp flagging (on/off)-
We are very resistant to the idea of being able to set ones flag on the fly. This leads to so many other issues. While we will keep looking at the issue and the feedback is great, I think this allows for some abuse of the gameplay.
Why not just make the PVP zone bigger? I know WHY its requested - players dont want to have to run all the way across the zone just to flag for pvp. Maybe open up a small pocket towards the entrance that would be used for easy pvp flagging. People could also see this as a good dueling area...
PVP flag countdown timer-
We originally had a countdown timer when entering PVP but several issues arose. Aside from being able to rush in and hit a node without the risk of being attacked, several players moving together and having their flag pop on around a single target was not fun. Even at 5 seconds the timer allowed people to get to strategic points and gank without the threat of being attacked. It also led to confusion when fighting. Who was a valid target was easily missed. The rule we arrived at was that anyone in the PVP area was flagged and fair game. Venturing out into the PVE area was a different gameplay. It made sense that a pvp flagged player would run across players from the other faction who were not flagged for PVP.
Good ideas, actually great ideas. Never thought of this, I think the current system is more than fair. Just make the "graphic" a little more noticeable, or the warning message appear sooner.
Comments posted in Red and Blue above - tried to follow the same "bug/feedback" system.
0
ranncoreMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2,508
edited March 2014
The new PvP area makes me very sad. Domination, with only 2 maps since release, has become very boring, and including pets in PvP means that the biggest "competition" taking place their is the amount of disposable income you can throw at your opponent. Not even worth mentioning how buying greater stones of health and resurrection scrolls will throw the balance there. Obviously the idea is to milk the whales for all they're willing to throw at the game, **** the consequences.
I'm sorry but I'm hugely disappointed in the way open world PvP is shaping out for this game. The patch notes for module 3 were the final icing on the cake I needed to invest in a different game doing open world PvP in a far better manner.
If players want to battle their pets in an arena (which actually sounds like a fun idea), then build an arena for it. It doesn't belong in any competitive space.
While you're at it for module 3, if you really want to make the big bucks, why don't you just let people swipe their credit cards to deal that much damage to their opponents. The swipe of the card is the swing of the sword. It's so pure it's beautiful. Obviously the charade about being against p2w is over.
Are YOU serious? Most TRs I know have 32k+HP and in the 30% deflect range, combined with tenacity around 18-20% If your lucky and get all crits and they dont deflect you may be able to kill them in 1 rotation, but good luck even getting 1 prone off since most of them are good enough to never be caught due to sneak attack and infiltrator giving them massive amounts of run speed bonus...
Dont forget ITC as well :P
Part of the issue with perma in world PVP is 1 perma can make it so nobody can mine black ice, and noone can find them because their run speed is as fast as a base mount... Ontop of that it only takes 1 quick dagger throw and you cant mine for near 5 seconds due to bile thorn...
So is it a problem? Yeah.... We had 5 man group all trying to find ONE perma TR yesterday and he evaded everyone, I was laughing because Healing Depression isnt even on the PTR right now in zone pvp or domination pvp so even if they caught him for 2 seconds, hed stealth and regen back pretty quickly...
Yes.. I'm very serious. An actual permastealth TR who uses bait-and-switch and recovery gear has to give up 2-3 defense slot items for offense slot items to BE PERMASTEALTH. What you're complaining about is the semi-high recovery semi-stealth bile build, which is NOT a permanent stealth build. They're made so that they can go stealth long enough to have ITC ready, but that does not make them impossible to kill. They're slightly tankier, but regardless 1 prone with 5 people around will kill them easy. We don't usually 2v1 those builds in domination BECAUSE it's possible to kill them 1v1. So the fact your 5-man group couldn't kill a TR is kinda laughable considering I killed several both in domination and in open-world with R7s and non-BiS gear. Is it a problem? No it isn't. If the TR is perma-stealth they have less survivability and can be killed if you actually pay attention and time things out properly. If the TR is semi-stealth bile build, then they can't stay in stealth as long and as such are typically easier to find.
The reward I got for killing someone was absolutely pathetic. 1 black ice? come on. The best thing to do is just not to kill anyone, pass by foes and find a spot to mine, it's not even worth the hassle and time you spend kicking his ***. A good reward would at the very least be 15-20 black ice for a kill.
10 - 15 sounds enough. Increasing the prize isn't recommended since this is so easily exploitable
feedback: companions and pve pots and general pvp gameplay
the way that i understand companions and pve pots when someone is flagged for pvp, for the new map to be a true open pvp area, players need to be able to function as they would in normal areas even though they may at any moment be attacked or attack another player. this is entirely a different mode of pvp compared to pvp domination and i understand that companions and pve pots need to be accessible. i like this different style of gameplay but i would like to have a set of pvp specific encounter powers i can switch over to rather quickly. is there any plans on doing anything like this if not for the patch then in the future?
0
ranncoreMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2,508
edited March 2014
The heroic encounters are easy enough that companions and pots aren't needed. Why ruin the pvp by including them.
Companions in PVP-
For now the companions and the bonuses will remain on for this open PVP. When looking at the various types of PVP offerings we realized that this would be different than domination. The PVP gameplay in this next update is a lot different than domination. This is an area we are going to be watching the most.
As a side note, I understand that any competent pvp player will not be hosting pet battles while engaged in active PVP battles but I wonder if there is some emergent gameplay possible where players summon their pets to watch them fight. Maybe after the large battle is won and a company or warriors, sitting on a pile of bodies, can have a laugh as a Leprechaun and a Sprite battle it out. Place your... well you get it.
I really don't like the idea. Having summoned pets fighting is something most of us could live with. Active bonuses, not so much, and I don't see why allowing people to have a non augment pet summoned and fighting would automatically imply that active bonuses have to remain.
All these bonuses have obviously been made to make pets attractive with pve balance in mind. Now you're talking about adding these powerful bonuses to pvp, which just brings a lot of issues. Now, please make the following test: a destroyer GWF with two sentinel tanking feats (the tier 1 ones), give him a sylph, a will o' wisp, a cantankerous mage, a rust monster and a galeb duhr. Nowtry to make it fight against any class but GWF, with any kind of purple pet you like. See who wins repeatedly and with what kind of margin or how fast. Provided you just play him with silly stuff like takedown or flourish, there will be no way to defeat this kind of character, except with another GWF with the same pets deck.
The heroic encounters are easy enough that companions and pots aren't needed. Why ruin the pvp by including them.
i like that they're looking to make the open world pvp different than pvp domination. if i want to play pvp domination, i'll queue up for it. this will be a different kind of challenge.
0
pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2014
Bad idea with almost everything PvP related in this new patch.
- PvE pots (seriously? 100% HP from brink of death?)
- PvE injuries (seriously? I wanna farm PvP, not PvE for gold so I can buy injury kits)
- swarm fight mentality (where's the skill in ganking people 5-10 vs 1?!?)
- companions (seriously? many OP bonuses with CC and antiCC)
- huge grind for 5 epic companions (seriously? I just paid millions of AD for my epic PvE companions - now you want me to make yet another 300 CN runs for the PvP ones?!?)
Nerfs after nerfs after nerfs after nerfs. Really needed to bring GWF and HR into the ground? There's no safety in this game, each time you find something nice in 2 months devs gonna take it away.
Do things need balance?
YES.
But before you make changes, please TALK with the top players of your game and see what their opinions are. Because you, the devs, while extremely smart&knowledgeable about game mechanics, know next to nothing about high end gameplay in either PvP or PvE.
0
ranncoreMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2,508
i like that they're looking to make the open world pvp different than pvp domination. if i want to play pvp domination, i'll queue up for it. this will be a different kind of challenge.
Yes, it will be the challenge of breaking out your wallet to stay competitive.
PvP can be and already is challenging without companions. Open world can and would be challenging and competitive without companions. With companions, it's straight up P2W. Well, I'd rather pay to play a different game. One where you can't turn the tide of battle in competitive PvP by opening up the Cash Store or vastly outgear your opponents on day 1 of the expansion by throwing money at the game.
Open world PvP, swarm fighting, node control, mixed AI bosses with players fighting each other - all sounds GREAT until all the store-bought bonuses get thrown in. Companions, stones, res scrolls, full-health pots... don't forget the new enchantments/runetones available directly in the zen store, sure to be followed up by vastly more powerful ones, engineered specifically for the people who can and will pay for every edge over other players they can get. But you know what? There are other games that have open world PvP, swarm fighting, node control, mixed AI bosses and players fighting each other - but WITHOUT the Zen store. So why would I do this here instead of there?
This is going to turn PvP into a joke, not make it better.
Really, when I look at this, I can't help but think they assume dire player attrition due to new summer MMO's being launched and are depending on the whales to carry the game through. In reality it's the changes that cater to the whales that will cause the attrition.
I log in, and I PvP until I log off. I like it, but I want more. But this? I don't want this at all. The dev's just spent the last few months throwing out Tenacity and Matchmaking in an attempt to balance PvP - this completely destroys all the work they've done. No dev is brazen enough to try to tell me that Greater Stones of Health and Augment Companions and active companion bonuses were designed from day 1 of their respective inceptions with PvP balance in mind. Because they WEREN'T. That's why they weren't included in PvP in the first place.
In Icewind Dale pvp, active companion bonuses are currently on as well as companions.
At this point we need to get feedback on how that feels and adjust accordingly.
IT FEELS BAD, MAN. GET RID OF IT.
If you really want to monetize on pets in PvP - which is obviously the goal here, let's not make a farce about balance or any of that - add a companion arena. Call it Poke'Winter for all I care. Collect em all.
feedback: companions and pve pots and general pvp gameplay
the way that i understand companions and pve pots when someone is flagged for pvp, for the new map to be a true open pvp area, players need to be able to function as they would in normal areas even though they may at any moment be attacked or attack another player. this is entirely a different mode of pvp compared to pvp domination and i understand that companions and pve pots need to be accessible. i like this different style of gameplay but i would like to have a set of pvp specific encounter powers i can switch over to rather quickly. is there any plans on doing anything like this if not for the patch then in the future?
THe issue that I still dont understand why this is even debatable is that players will be able to stack OVER 100% CC resist.... THis is ALL due to companion bonuses...
This isnt a fun "feature" thats added in for kicks and giggles... THis is a game BREAKING mechanic, and I dont even play CW.
As a side note, I understand that any competent pvp player will not be hosting pet battles while engaged in active PVP battles but I wonder if there is some emergent gameplay possible where players summon their pets to watch them fight. Maybe after the large battle is won and a company or warriors, sitting on a pile of bodies, can have a laugh as a Leprechaun and a Sprite battle it out. Place your... well you get it.
Open world PvP. A big plus is you don't need to queue or have a team of 5 to participate, you can arrange duels 1v1, try different bonuses, and have an all out chaotic battle. Like you mentioned, there are some exciting possibilities.
A big minus though is that players want to be able to choose exactly which type of bonus/pots/healing depression to be available. Also like ayroux stated, the top 1/3 of the entire map is walled off by an invisible wall, including a large area of the PvP area which limits the exploration and PvP/PvE mix that could possibly take place on test.
I can see there is a lot of excitement about the possibilities, so why not take the concept and give us a separate open world Arena (almost like a foundry, even better if it can be made in a foundry) where a specific group of players can enter, lock the instance, choose what pots/companion/healing depression bonuses to enable and battle to their heart's content (no injuries, reward not required)? Then they can do companion vs companion, 1v1, 2v2, 20vs 20, free for all etc as they wish.
Having this type of freestyle combat restricted/linked to black ice farming places unnecessary stress on PvE players who only want to farm and PvP players who don't see the need to otherwise spend extra AD on epic companions and extra enchants for one particular game mode. I'm of the opinion that while flagged for PvP companion bonuses should be turned off, or at least only restricted to the 1 summoned companion only. I rather not have current and future companion bonuses nerfed just for this PvE/PvP mix.
Module 4 Comprehensive DC guide |Module 4 MoF CW Handbook |New! Scourge Warlock Guide| NW Numbers and Mechanics guide |Crit, Power and DPS guide | Dungeon Delving guide and more
I understand and buy the different way to pvp devs want to implement, a more casual "look, enemies, lets gank them" `while you are farming ice and doing quests (the kind of things that would happen in icewind dale in a situation like its now, its the far north!) so you should be able to use your summoned pet (he's there afterall) and i kinda feel is right, but the active bonusses just destroy the "F2P" of the game, frustrate players, pve and pvp ones, so first option :What about leaving your summoned pet, makes sense, but including an "active bonus depression" like the healing depression one, make it that once you get stuck in PvP combat you stop receiving active bonus from pets, just your summoned one, way easier to balance, way more sensible to the gaming comunity. On the healing pots, well after reading the dev coment, i understand too the PoW, and i agree that healing depression should put bigger ones in check, 4300 every 20 seconds is not that unbalanced, remember, there is no need for speed here, you are not protecting anything just killing enemies, but... stones of health bother me A LOT (AND I USE THOSE SINCE DAY 1!!!!) even on healing depression that means 15-20k healing every 20s and is again a P2W sindrome, so, stones of health should be dissabled while on Icewind dale (maybe the black ice intereferes with their power?) the whole idea is exciting, the implementation (bugs aside, i can view forward) is pretty good too, better than i expected tbh, so just eliminating the pets bonus and the stones of health would improve it INMENSELY.
Oh, a big problem already is the "luskan syndrome", arcane brotherhood already dominates 2-1 to ten towers faction, and it bothers me, because well, i HATE LUSKANS WITH PASSION, but in gameplay it means that once it goes live it will never be balanced, i dont know if it even should be balanced, because well, its the way it is, but can become a GG 2.0, and gg has been the worst thing you guys have done in the game, by far.
Comments
At least it looks like the most profitable way to gain Black Ice is through Heroic encounters. So the enhanced mining in the PVP areas is not that big of an advantage.
Please remove injuries when we fight at pvp specific zones.
I dont dislike this actually, puts a little risk in PVPing... Heck Runescape was one of the best PVP games in the early 2000s because you lost your gear if you died... Would be nice if players thought twice about zone pvp...
This IMO should be changed so the best places to mine/obtain black ice are PVP related - especially with the above, injury on death, makes it really a risk/reward system...
They also REALLY need to expand the PVP area, I dont know if this was intentional or not, but over HALF the red zone on the map is blocked off... Dont forget there is Dwarven Valley most ppl havnt even accessed yet!
Yeah , now that I have had a chance to try it out it isn't as I expected , black ice nodes are nicely spread out and it seems to be easy enough to earn and I like the heroic encounters , don't even need to venture into pvp if you don't want to .
Dying when killed in pvp in icewind dale will give me injuries. That sucks, especially for poor squishy wizards.
I noticed people started to use pve pots (the 8500 ones or better) in pvp. That makes it uninteresting, this and the lack of healing depression makes matches dull, slow, unless your foe has purple control pets, which makes it extremely brutal.
So far I didn't enjoy at all the pvp gameplay in icewind dale. Pets make matches clearly unbalanced, and my poor wizard didn't have the control or the damage (even with 15k gs) to kill people with full regen/pve pots and epic pets. I fought a TR who probably had a sylhp because my controls felt useless, extremely short and not even worth the encounter slot.
The reward I got for killing someone was absolutely pathetic. 1 black ice? come on. The best thing to do is just not to kill anyone, pass by foes and find a spot to mine, it's not even worth the hassle and time you spend kicking his ***. A good reward would at the very least be 15-20 black ice for a kill.
So if epic pets active bonuses, pve pots, and the lack of healing depression are here to stay I'll just don't get flagged for pvp in icewind dale, which is a pity because I really like pvp.
With how the system currently works? Absolutely not. Introduce Healing Depression, deactivate companions and PVE pots and we might have a discussion.
THese are a given, been posting like a mad man on companions. Just FYI healing depression isnt even on the PTR atm - even in domination so thats going to be fixed.
I cant imagine they are going to let PVE pots in the PVP zone... So yeah, these will be fixed.
So yes, PVP area needs to be expanded to the entire map size, not that small cut off area in the north (What is this a center for ANTS?! It needs to be atleast 3 times this size)
THEN put some really rich Black Ice nodes in there on a random spawn so players feel the greed to want to go in, but fear the risk of dying and getting injured.
THAT sounds like proper incentive and deterrent to me.
Well yes the nodes in the pvp zone are currently as rich as the ones in the pve zone. And so far I've seen no unique heroic encounter happening in the pvp area. This and the pathetic 1 black ice reward for killing someone makes me wondering if it's even worth getting flagged for pvp.
Let me attempt to answer some questions/feedback and provide some more information on the PVP gameplay.
Keep in mind that everything is subject to change and we are in day 2 of the first preview build.
There is a lot of passion around the topic of PVP and this new type of PVP for Neverwinter has a lot going on. It is not queued domination, or GS based and it is played in a zone that is both PVP and PVE. There are likely some things we are going to tune and even change but that will take time. Please play in as many areas as you can to get an idea of what pvp is like for the zone and all of the content in it.
This update and zone offers a variety of options to pvp play and an opportunity for some really cool emergent gameplay.
Keep the feedback coming!!
PVP Heroic Encounter-
The encounter is not currently active in the preview build
We are playing the latest version of the Heroic Encounter internally and hope that we can add it to IWP on Friday. This requires that everything plays nice.
PVP Nodes-
We are working on tuning their values. Right now they more interacts than nodes outside of the PVP area
Player PVP drops- (Black ice)
We are tuning the value and will probably land somewhere around 10-15 BI per kill.
Healing depression-
We will need to look at the numbers and make sure everything is working as expected.
Healing potions-
We are currently planning on having PVE potions usable in PVP but we are keeping a close eye on the gameplay. HD should be able to handle them.
One of the reasons that we wanted to allow them was to support PVP/E gameplay. Being able to only use PVP potions when flagged for PVP made doing Heroic Encounters around the zone, while flagged for pvp, nearly impossible.
The PVP Area-
The actual area of the PVP gameplay is the entire map. The small area (in red) is where you get flagged and take part in the PVP Heroic Encounter. Once you leave the "pvp area" you are still flagged for PVP.
ONCE FLAGGED, YOU ARE FLAGGED FOR PVP UNTIL YOU DIE OR GO TO A CAMPFIRE NO MATTER WHERE YOU ARE IN THE ZONE
Companions in PVP-
For now the companions and the bonuses will remain on for this open PVP. When looking at the various types of PVP offerings we realized that this would be different than domination. The PVP gameplay in this next update is a lot different than domination. This is an area we are going to be watching the most.
As a side note, I understand that any competent pvp player will not be hosting pet battles while engaged in active PVP battles but I wonder if there is some emergent gameplay possible where players summon their pets to watch them fight. Maybe after the large battle is won and a company or warriors, sitting on a pile of bodies, can have a laugh as a Leprechaun and a Sprite battle it out. Place your... well you get it.
Injuries in PVP-
Currently this is the only risk for PVP and it is likely to remain the only risk. With players dropping black ice, the richer nodes and a lucrative PVP Heroic Encounter there will probably never be zero risk.
On the fly pvp flagging (on/off)-
We are very resistant to the idea of being able to set ones flag on the fly. This leads to so many other issues. While we will keep looking at the issue and the feedback is great, I think this allows for some abuse of the gameplay.
PVP flag countdown timer-
We originally had a countdown timer when entering PVP but several issues arose. Aside from being able to rush in and hit a node without the risk of being attacked, several players moving together and having their flag pop on around a single target was not fun. Even at 5 seconds the timer allowed people to get to strategic points and gank without the threat of being attacked. It also led to confusion when fighting. Who was a valid target was easily missed. The rule we arrived at was that anyone in the PVP area was flagged and fair game. Venturing out into the PVE area was a different gameplay. It made sense that a pvp flagged player would run across players from the other faction who were not flagged for PVP.
PVP flagging area-
On the map there is a large red area that is not exactly lined up with the world PVP trigger. I have a feeling that this will never be 100% although we will keep working on it. You should use the FX border around the PVP area as your guide to when you will be flagged for PVP. We are also going to work on making this FX border a little more noticeable.
Tenacity on gea
At the very least, can you block the 100% heal Greater stone of healing? That, in my opinion, is taking it too far.
Comments posted in Red and Blue above - tried to follow the same "bug/feedback" system.
I'm sorry but I'm hugely disappointed in the way open world PvP is shaping out for this game. The patch notes for module 3 were the final icing on the cake I needed to invest in a different game doing open world PvP in a far better manner.
If players want to battle their pets in an arena (which actually sounds like a fun idea), then build an arena for it. It doesn't belong in any competitive space.
While you're at it for module 3, if you really want to make the big bucks, why don't you just let people swipe their credit cards to deal that much damage to their opponents. The swipe of the card is the swing of the sword. It's so pure it's beautiful. Obviously the charade about being against p2w is over.
Yes.. I'm very serious. An actual permastealth TR who uses bait-and-switch and recovery gear has to give up 2-3 defense slot items for offense slot items to BE PERMASTEALTH. What you're complaining about is the semi-high recovery semi-stealth bile build, which is NOT a permanent stealth build. They're made so that they can go stealth long enough to have ITC ready, but that does not make them impossible to kill. They're slightly tankier, but regardless 1 prone with 5 people around will kill them easy. We don't usually 2v1 those builds in domination BECAUSE it's possible to kill them 1v1. So the fact your 5-man group couldn't kill a TR is kinda laughable considering I killed several both in domination and in open-world with R7s and non-BiS gear. Is it a problem? No it isn't. If the TR is perma-stealth they have less survivability and can be killed if you actually pay attention and time things out properly. If the TR is semi-stealth bile build, then they can't stay in stealth as long and as such are typically easier to find.
10 - 15 sounds enough. Increasing the prize isn't recommended since this is so easily exploitable
the way that i understand companions and pve pots when someone is flagged for pvp, for the new map to be a true open pvp area, players need to be able to function as they would in normal areas even though they may at any moment be attacked or attack another player. this is entirely a different mode of pvp compared to pvp domination and i understand that companions and pve pots need to be accessible. i like this different style of gameplay but i would like to have a set of pvp specific encounter powers i can switch over to rather quickly. is there any plans on doing anything like this if not for the patch then in the future?
I really don't like the idea. Having summoned pets fighting is something most of us could live with. Active bonuses, not so much, and I don't see why allowing people to have a non augment pet summoned and fighting would automatically imply that active bonuses have to remain.
All these bonuses have obviously been made to make pets attractive with pve balance in mind. Now you're talking about adding these powerful bonuses to pvp, which just brings a lot of issues. Now, please make the following test: a destroyer GWF with two sentinel tanking feats (the tier 1 ones), give him a sylph, a will o' wisp, a cantankerous mage, a rust monster and a galeb duhr. Nowtry to make it fight against any class but GWF, with any kind of purple pet you like. See who wins repeatedly and with what kind of margin or how fast. Provided you just play him with silly stuff like takedown or flourish, there will be no way to defeat this kind of character, except with another GWF with the same pets deck.
i like that they're looking to make the open world pvp different than pvp domination. if i want to play pvp domination, i'll queue up for it. this will be a different kind of challenge.
- PvE pots (seriously? 100% HP from brink of death?)
- PvE injuries (seriously? I wanna farm PvP, not PvE for gold so I can buy injury kits)
- swarm fight mentality (where's the skill in ganking people 5-10 vs 1?!?)
- companions (seriously? many OP bonuses with CC and antiCC)
- huge grind for 5 epic companions (seriously? I just paid millions of AD for my epic PvE companions - now you want me to make yet another 300 CN runs for the PvP ones?!?)
Nerfs after nerfs after nerfs after nerfs. Really needed to bring GWF and HR into the ground? There's no safety in this game, each time you find something nice in 2 months devs gonna take it away.
Do things need balance?
YES.
But before you make changes, please TALK with the top players of your game and see what their opinions are. Because you, the devs, while extremely smart&knowledgeable about game mechanics, know next to nothing about high end gameplay in either PvP or PvE.
Yes, it will be the challenge of breaking out your wallet to stay competitive.
PvP can be and already is challenging without companions. Open world can and would be challenging and competitive without companions. With companions, it's straight up P2W. Well, I'd rather pay to play a different game. One where you can't turn the tide of battle in competitive PvP by opening up the Cash Store or vastly outgear your opponents on day 1 of the expansion by throwing money at the game.
Open world PvP, swarm fighting, node control, mixed AI bosses with players fighting each other - all sounds GREAT until all the store-bought bonuses get thrown in. Companions, stones, res scrolls, full-health pots... don't forget the new enchantments/runetones available directly in the zen store, sure to be followed up by vastly more powerful ones, engineered specifically for the people who can and will pay for every edge over other players they can get. But you know what? There are other games that have open world PvP, swarm fighting, node control, mixed AI bosses and players fighting each other - but WITHOUT the Zen store. So why would I do this here instead of there?
This is going to turn PvP into a joke, not make it better.
Really, when I look at this, I can't help but think they assume dire player attrition due to new summer MMO's being launched and are depending on the whales to carry the game through. In reality it's the changes that cater to the whales that will cause the attrition.
I log in, and I PvP until I log off. I like it, but I want more. But this? I don't want this at all. The dev's just spent the last few months throwing out Tenacity and Matchmaking in an attempt to balance PvP - this completely destroys all the work they've done. No dev is brazen enough to try to tell me that Greater Stones of Health and Augment Companions and active companion bonuses were designed from day 1 of their respective inceptions with PvP balance in mind. Because they WEREN'T. That's why they weren't included in PvP in the first place.
IN SHORT
IT FEELS BAD, MAN. GET RID OF IT.
If you really want to monetize on pets in PvP - which is obviously the goal here, let's not make a farce about balance or any of that - add a companion arena. Call it Poke'Winter for all I care. Collect em all.
THe issue that I still dont understand why this is even debatable is that players will be able to stack OVER 100% CC resist.... THis is ALL due to companion bonuses...
This isnt a fun "feature" thats added in for kicks and giggles... THis is a game BREAKING mechanic, and I dont even play CW.
Open world PvP. A big plus is you don't need to queue or have a team of 5 to participate, you can arrange duels 1v1, try different bonuses, and have an all out chaotic battle. Like you mentioned, there are some exciting possibilities.
A big minus though is that players want to be able to choose exactly which type of bonus/pots/healing depression to be available. Also like ayroux stated, the top 1/3 of the entire map is walled off by an invisible wall, including a large area of the PvP area which limits the exploration and PvP/PvE mix that could possibly take place on test.
I can see there is a lot of excitement about the possibilities, so why not take the concept and give us a separate open world Arena (almost like a foundry, even better if it can be made in a foundry) where a specific group of players can enter, lock the instance, choose what pots/companion/healing depression bonuses to enable and battle to their heart's content (no injuries, reward not required)? Then they can do companion vs companion, 1v1, 2v2, 20vs 20, free for all etc as they wish.
Having this type of freestyle combat restricted/linked to black ice farming places unnecessary stress on PvE players who only want to farm and PvP players who don't see the need to otherwise spend extra AD on epic companions and extra enchants for one particular game mode. I'm of the opinion that while flagged for PvP companion bonuses should be turned off, or at least only restricted to the 1 summoned companion only. I rather not have current and future companion bonuses nerfed just for this PvE/PvP mix.
Guild and guide info
Module 4 Comprehensive DC guide |Module 4 MoF CW Handbook |New! Scourge Warlock Guide| NW Numbers and Mechanics guide |Crit, Power and DPS guide | Dungeon Delving guide and more
I understand and buy the different way to pvp devs want to implement, a more casual "look, enemies, lets gank them" `while you are farming ice and doing quests (the kind of things that would happen in icewind dale in a situation like its now, its the far north!) so you should be able to use your summoned pet (he's there afterall) and i kinda feel is right, but the active bonusses just destroy the "F2P" of the game, frustrate players, pve and pvp ones, so first option :What about leaving your summoned pet, makes sense, but including an "active bonus depression" like the healing depression one, make it that once you get stuck in PvP combat you stop receiving active bonus from pets, just your summoned one, way easier to balance, way more sensible to the gaming comunity. On the healing pots, well after reading the dev coment, i understand too the PoW, and i agree that healing depression should put bigger ones in check, 4300 every 20 seconds is not that unbalanced, remember, there is no need for speed here, you are not protecting anything just killing enemies, but... stones of health bother me A LOT (AND I USE THOSE SINCE DAY 1!!!!) even on healing depression that means 15-20k healing every 20s and is again a P2W sindrome, so, stones of health should be dissabled while on Icewind dale (maybe the black ice intereferes with their power?) the whole idea is exciting, the implementation (bugs aside, i can view forward) is pretty good too, better than i expected tbh, so just eliminating the pets bonus and the stones of health would improve it INMENSELY.