I mean, how are you going to ignore a dude at your close point capping it, and then having to coordinate sending two people there to take him out and then have to do it again in 20 seconds once he runs back there...
Troll post fail....
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dante123plMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 282Arc User
Told you, you havent met a challenge yet. 2 geared CWs can melt you down like butter if you are alone xD.
You don't even know how huge CWs debuffs are, you just went against some pugs in your ghosted server and came to conclusion that you are OP.
A sent GWF can't tank 4 geared out players, he can barely tank 2 of them and then he will have to run. Please cut the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and lets talk with some facts :
RoI on tab = bye bye to your mitigation. and yes it stacks.
Plague fire/ Terror = bye bye to 3~4 % of your mitigation ( when they fix PF, that would be 9%)
Did i forget to say high vizier?
And that can only be done by 1 CW. ONE. They can debuff your damage resistance directly, not your flat number of defense.
Not to mention a conqueror GWF proning you when you aren't in unstoppable.
And you are telling me you can tank whole team of Geared players? cool story bro, when servers merge you will see how "OP" our GWFs are.
Rank ~9 on defense slots for HP, 7x G tenes, G.PF on weapon ( or perhaps terror since G.PF is bugged atm).
Regeneration rings, Bloodlust belt for more HP.
IT is HP regen spec, and mega defense deflect from the epics ( 2 titans/2 scrappers) nothing special. He is just exaggerating because he wins Vs pugs.
I have one, but with normal tenes instead of G ones. So he deals ~2.5k more damage than me with his tene procs but im as tanky as him.
CWs ****s me up, especially if with GF who can time their CC.
CW and GF combined can melt down any GWF, since he wont even have the chance to get unstoppable ( since GWF need to be on his feet to use unstoppable, and GF can prevent you from doing that easily).
and the only thing that makes hes build so op are G.Tenes
It's G tene. A skilled, geared CW may have trouble killing a sentinel GWF 1on1; but either way it'd be a hell of a long fight. Why?
A skilled, geared CW will just kite/cc the GWF. Itd probably just end up in a draw, if that CW is a really good kiter/CCr. This is w/o tene. With tene. Just run.
and the only thing that makes hes build so op are G.Tenes
Not the only. Its ONE of the aspects. Without tene, I could get MORE hp and MORE regen and be MORE tanky and require ATLEAST 2 players to kill me...
In a Pre vs Pre match, or even pugs... that is how you win games...
the fact that BOTH of you are ignorant of this and the fact that you, esteena, dont have greaters just proves my point. Your NOT the top GWF or even one of the top players on your server... YOu think your build is ok because you only run regular tenes...
Its not "just 2.5k" damage more its much more then that due to the serverside CD...
Dante, dont try and troll more bro, you just asked what makes the build so OP.... Obviously your new and have no experienced how OP it is...
People who defend Sent GWFs and/or Tenes are ONLY the people that play them.... Why is that? AND if I have them, why am I asking for them to nerf my OWN class?
Im also asking for not just a nerf, but a way to buff the other specs for the class to make pvp more competative for everyone and make it so PvP isnt "Sent or GTFO"
I do believe this is an attempt to nerf more classes after the HV set gets nerfed for CW. It's odd he hasn't posted something in that thread, which will have much more of an effect on his class he plays.
It's G tene. A skilled, geared CW may have trouble killing a sentinel GWF 1on1; but either way it'd be a hell of a long fight. Why?
A skilled, geared CW will just kite/cc the GWF. Itd probably just end up in a draw, if that CW is a really good kiter/CCr. This is w/o tene. With tene. Just run.
This is my entire point....
Yes, Sent GWFs cant do ANY damage without Tene... thats NOT the issue. Its that Sent GWF builds are pure troll builds that even without tene, are required for any good premade match...
It requires MORE than 1 person to kill them. PERIOD. You can send 1 person to TIE them/counter them, either another GWF or regen GF whatever. But the fact remains that a "DPS Class" Specced tank, can out mitigate and out heal a players damage...
A GWF should be JUST as tanky, if not even a little less, than a GF specced the same way. a GF cant backcap very well pre vs pre like a GWf can.
What fun is the game when its mechanics are that way?
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dante123plMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 282Arc User
Not the only. Its ONE of the aspects. Without tene, I could get MORE hp and MORE regen and be MORE tanky and require ATLEAST 2 players to kill me...
In a Pre vs Pre match, or even pugs... that is how you win games...
the fact that BOTH of you are ignorant of this and the fact that you, esteena, dont have greaters just proves my point. Your NOT the top GWF or even one of the top players on your server... YOu think your build is ok because you only run regular tenes...
Its not "just 2.5k" damage more its much more then that due to the serverside CD...
Dante, dont try and troll more bro, you just asked what makes the build so OP.... Obviously your new and have no experienced how OP it is...
People who defend Sent GWFs and/or Tenes are ONLY the people that play them.... Why is that? AND if I have them, why am I asking for them to nerf my OWN class?
Im also asking for not just a nerf, but a way to buff the other specs for the class to make pvp more competative for everyone and make it so PvP isnt "Sent or GTFO"
also that doesnt mean u would be able to kill anything w,o them
I do believe this is an attempt to nerf more classes after the HV set gets nerfed for CW. It's odd he hasn't posted something in that thread, which will have much more of an effect on his class he plays.
Sorry I only speak about what I know. I feel like posting for ADJUSTMENTS in classes that I dont play is self serving.
I have a GWF with 7 GTE. I am calling for adjustments to GTE AND Sent Spec.
I have a Perf Vorp TR, I havnt posted yet about this but lashing blade needs a nerf. (NOT 100% crit in stealth but a reduced CD instead)
I have a GF (two actually) with 6 GTE (only on 1) and AGAIN, am calling for a GTE nerf...
I dont play DC or CW so I wont post about their gear/builds. Its up to that class to post about their own OPness.
But again, I HAVE these classes, and am giving my feedback...
I never have said its about skill bro... ITS ALL about the gear... The skill cap in this game is very low, never said anything but that...
The fact you acknowledge you lost to a CW in a 1v1 just proves that you ARE indeed a bad GWF...
But hey! Ill give you FREE advice bro!
Slot roar and GPF in your weapon and CWs will never beat you again, if you play right.
Your welcome, you dont even need to pay for that advice.
no one can kill GWF sentinel 1 vs 1, and i certainly never said a CW killed me 1 on 1. I dont know if you have bad reading comprehension or i werent so clear.
Lets cut your <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> by a simple scenario,
You are on your OP GWF in your ghosted server, and queued for PVP.
You went vs your Pug enemy team to cap their home point, you are 1 person.
The enemy team manage to cap the other 2 points while you are caping their home points. they come to you and woops , you are having 2 stacks of RoI and a GF pronning you. Your team tries to cap the other 2 points again, but they couldn't....because you are dead.
Lets have another scenario, Premade vs Preamade your team has 2 CW ,you , 1 GF and 1 TR and the enemy team has the same combination.
The GF stand in the middle pronning everyone while CWs debuffing and the TR killing. The enemy sentinel is probably fighting you now on one of the nodes,you two are alone, 4ever lasting fight right? lets says your team failed to cap the other 2 points, they come at you now, GF prones you..you re on the floor, 2 RoI, some plague fire stack, 1 lashing blade and you rest in peace. So much for your " icantankeverythaaaang" argument.
You aren't immortal, you aren't OP. Good team can easily defeat you. You are only OP vs pugs, because Pugs are lowly geared and don't have proper enchantment and yes 10k+ GS is high enough, not low. You haven't met the challenge, never will in your server, no offense, it is full of of roleplayers.
Sorry I only speak about what I know. I feel like posting for ADJUSTMENTS in classes that I dont play is self serving.
I have a GWF with 7 GTE. I am calling for adjustments to GTE AND Sent Spec.
I have a Perf Vorp TR, I havnt posted yet about this but lashing blade needs a nerf. (NOT 100% crit in stealth but a reduced CD instead)
I have a GF (two actually) with 6 GTE (only on 1) and AGAIN, am calling for a GTE nerf...
I dont play DC or CW so I wont post about their gear/builds. Its up to that class to post about their own OPness.
But again, I HAVE these classes, and am giving my feedback...
now remove ur G.Tenes and show us how OP ur GWF is
If it's a draw it means it takes 2 players to take either of them down. Try reading better.
No because if you just send a CW to backcap, he can be killed 1v1 easily. The ONLY class that forces a draw at BEST 1v1 is GWF. Therefore you HAVE to send a counter to him (1 person means a draw at best and only IF they dont run tene) Any good premade will have a tene GWF, and therefore you CANT send anything else BUT a regen spec GF or GWF who can also out heal and mitigate the damage put out.
Against a GWF sent w/o tene? Again he could just cc/kite the GWF around in circles. and then repel or whatever the GWF off the point. if the gwf just sits there.
itll STILL be OP in the sense that you play a backcapper in a premade or even a pug.. Itll take 2 ppl to kill you or 1 to tie you at best...
That is why its dumb. because the build cannot be beaten 1v1 by ANY class with ANY spec played by ANY "skilled" player. It just cant be done.
If your REALLY lucky every once in a while a CW or TR can get a daily off that doesnt get deflected combined with high burst that doesnt get deflected and MAYBE kill him...
Exactly, while the Sent GWf stands on the point and its a wash.... How is that fun at all... How is that how pvp needs to be played because its the most competitive way to win?
Yeah and a 10.4k GS GWF cannot be killed by a 16k GS GF or a 14k CW or a 14k TR... So yes... yes it does mean nothing.... Enchant also dont play into your GS... So, yeah i think im good with saying GS means nothing...
A 12k GS TR can easily kill 14k+ GS players... No duh a 7k GS who just hit 60 cant beat a BIS 14k GS+ player... But just saying I have a hig hGS means NOTHING, especially since your gear could not even be towards pvp setup. I know PVE players with very high GS that would get ROCKED in pvp...
Never said anything about PvE players, i said a Bis PvP players will always pass 10k GS+ , which is high enough.
Im from mindflayer yes, however there are good players on the server, and I also have played PTR with my characters and also lemon stand (we lost) They are good.
You know how you can tell when someone KNOWS they have a bad arguement? When the attack the person and not the points themselves... attack me all you want, but my poitns are still valid.
Thats the thing, you dont even have a point. You fought against bad low players and came to conclusion you are OP while i fought against geared players and saw that im not that OP. Hence why you lost vs lemonade stand, if you are OP, you could have tanked them at their home point like you claimed before.
Its also funny we BOTH play GWF Sents with Tene and yet only 1 of us is fighting tooth and nail trying to avoid a nerf... Why is that? because I want balance... hence why I campaign against tene AND Sents...
You obviously want YOUR class to continue to be OP so you can roll over people or challenge them 1v1 and win and say your pro...
No because if you just send a CW to backcap, he can be killed 1v1 easily. The ONLY class that forces a draw at BEST 1v1 is GWF. Therefore you HAVE to send a counter to him (1 person means a draw at best and only IF they dont run tene) Any good premade will have a tene GWF, and therefore you CANT send anything else BUT a regen spec GF or GWF who can also out heal and mitigate the damage put out.
So maybe you should
OR you can send 1 CW that can perma CC you, repel you and annoy the hell outta you. You wont die, neither will he. You are a melee and thats a weakness.
You clearly dont know anything about competitive PvP.
Yes, Sent GWFs cant do ANY damage without Tene... thats NOT the issue. Its that Sent GWF builds are pure troll builds that even without tene, are required for any good premade match...
It requires MORE than 1 person to kill them. PERIOD. You can send 1 person to TIE them/counter them, either another GWF or regen GF whatever. But the fact remains that a "DPS Class" Specced tank, can out mitigate and out heal a players damage...
A GWF should be JUST as tanky, if not even a little less, than a GF specced the same way. a GF cant backcap very well pre vs pre like a GWf can.
What fun is the game when its mechanics are that way?
The way the guild started looking at a Sent GWF back cap was to send a GF to bounce him off the node. Since our team is also back capping and forcing a 1v1 at both points and mid being pivot, we found it much more fun and in line with team work pvp. You can then adjust who does which role according to matchup and skill.
info, equal gear score, GWF can be killed by any class except DC which both can't kill each other.
percentage of win 1 on 1 equal gear.
GWF vs GF 99.99% dead GWF
GWF vs TR 50% chance for both depend on whose daily will get first.
GWF vs CW 60% chance GWF will win.
GWF vs DC no data equal gear and DC running around you can't kill it.
GWF vs GWF who ever has better stats/path and skill win.
now tell me your GS.
In all honesty i really don't have an issue with GWF.If it takes 2 to 4 players to kill me then there is nothing wrong with GWF.
Well the only thing i have a hard time with is keeping up.
GWFs are suppose to be tanks.
Gear score bug does mess with the GWF defense.
The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.
Told you, you havent met a challenge yet. 2 geared CWs can melt you down like butter if you are alone xD.
GWFs are known of capping a point by themselves, but they would need a help vs geared players.
You don't even know how huge CWs debuffs are, you just went against some pugs in your ghosted server and came to conclusion that you are OP.
A sent GWF can't tank 4 geared out players, he can barely tank 2 of them and then he will have to run. Please cut the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and lets talk with some facts :
RoI on tab = bye bye to your mitigation. and yes it stacks.
Plague fire/ Terror = bye bye to 3~4 % of your mitigation ( when they fix PF, that would be 9%)
Did i forget to say high vizier?
And that can only be done by 1 CW. ONE. They can debuff your damage resistance directly, not your flat number of defense.
Not to mention a conqueror GWF proning you when you aren't in unstoppable.
And you are telling me you can tank whole team of Geared players? cool story bro, when servers merge you will see how "OP" our GWFs are.
Rank ~9 on defense slots for HP, 7x G tenes, G.PF on weapon ( or perhaps terror since G.PF is bugged atm).
Regeneration rings, Bloodlust belt for more HP.
IT is HP regen spec, and mega defense deflect from the epics ( 2 titans/2 scrappers) nothing special. He is just exaggerating because he wins Vs pugs.
I have one, but with normal tenes instead of G ones. So he deals ~2.5k more damage than me with his tene procs but im as tanky as him.
CWs ****s me up, especially if with GF who can time their CC.
CW and GF combined can melt down any GWF, since he wont even have the chance to get unstoppable ( since GWF need to be on his feet to use unstoppable, and GF can prevent you from doing that easily).
I for one do know how stong CW debuffs are, which is why 2 out of my 4 encounters in pvp are feated COI and ROE.
12.5k GS + HV + GPF + Thaum COI + ROE + 2 more feat debuffs + EF + Chill Strike = GWF at 50% health (if Chill Strike crits) & a full bar for unstoppable. By the time unstoppable is over they should be back up to around 3/4 health or more. How many rotations of that do you think a CW will get off before stamina is completely drained, encounters are on cooldown, and the faster moving GWF is bashing him back to the respawn point?
That being said, 2 similarly geared CWs can blow up a single GWF.
Should also add that if daily is up & Ice Knife crits on hit right after the Chill Strike, it can kill a sent in a rotation (requiring crit on chill strike & ice knife prior to unstop being activated), though it is pretty rare.
Never said anything about PvE players, i said a Bis PvP players will always pass 10k GS+ , which is high enough.
Why didnt you tank all of them? *tsk tsk*
Thats the thing, you dont even have a point. You fought against bad low players and came to conclusion you are OP while i fought against geared players and saw that im not that OP. Hence why you lost vs lemonade stand, if you are OP, you could have tanked them at their home point like you claimed before.
Not sure who is attacking who here xD.
You said low GS vs High Gs. GS means nothing. I could even get below 10k GS and STILL roll over bad players with high GS. 10.4k is not high GS. That my only point is your post saying a low GS player cant kill a high one. 10k versus 16k that 16k GS makes the 10k look low... Its actually a BIGGER difference than even a 8k GS player versus a `10k GWF... But guess what. the 8k versus the 10k doesnt stand a chance in hell against the 10k GS GWF and neither does the 16k GS (who is DOUBLE) Simple logic can tell you GS means nothing. You back peddling now.
They ran GTE on four of their characters AND I didnt play my GWf in the match, I played my GF.
Prove to me I played against bad players? YOu keep saying this but have NO date to back this up... Thats what amazes me... You want to throw my arguement out the window by discounting ME by saying i only play against baddies.. Well the person making the claim holds the burden of proof.
So show me how there are NO good players on Mindflayer.
Have you fought any highly geared TR with 7xGtene, 29k hp, who knows what they are doing? Sentinel regen is not invincible, you will lose 1v1 such a TR. I played the class from day 1, and would say I know the class pretty well (both weakness and strong pts), saying Sentinel Regen GWF is invincible just show me you may need to play more against better teams in pvp. Ask one of the highly geared TR in your guild for a 1v1, and make sure the TR is a skillful one, and you will get what i mean.
The meta is bunker deal with it for now, they are going to have to add a lot or change a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> ton to have that change. With tenebrous, only 1 game mode (domination, where you just sit on a point to contest or cap), classes going heavy regen, its only logical this would be.
They would have to change a whole lot of classes/skills to rebalance it, you don't like bunker builds that is your main complaint here. Meta and game mode objective is the main complaint.
You said low GS vs High Gs. GS means nothing. I could even get below 10k GS and STILL roll over bad players with high GS. 10.4k is not high GS. That my only point is your post saying a low GS player cant kill a high one. 10k versus 16k that 16k GS makes the 10k look low... Its actually a BIGGER difference than even a 8k GS player versus a `10k GWF... But guess what. the 8k versus the 10k doesnt stand a chance in hell against the 10k GS GWF and neither does the 16k GS (who is DOUBLE) Simple logic can tell you GS means nothing. You back peddling now.
And who said that a high GS player has to be bad. How about a high GS and good player? i don't know why you don't put that in consideration. I rarely see high GS bad players. You are basing your argument on the minority of bad High GS players, while im here talking about majority. and yes, 10k+ is high enough for PvP, again, im talking about BiS PvP i don't know why you keep generalizing into the PvE GS. Get your facts straight, or quote where did i speak about BiS PvE players/
They ran GTE on four of their characters AND I didnt play my GWf in the match, I played my GF.
Prove to me I played against bad players? YOu keep saying this but have NO date to back this up... Thats what amazes me... You want to throw my arguement out the window by discounting ME by saying i only play against baddies.. Well the person making the claim holds the burden of proof.
So show me how there are NO good players on Mindflayer.
You made a claim you are OP, show us a video of you beating the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of Good premade team. You have the same burden my friend.
I for one do know how stong CW debuffs are, which is why 2 out of my 4 encounters in pvp are feated COI and ROE.
12.5k GS + HV + GPF + Thaum COI + ROE + 2 more feat debuffs + EF + Chill Strike = GWF at 50% health (if Chill Strike crits) & a full bar for unstoppable. By the time unstoppable is over they should be back up to around 3/4 health or more. How many rotations of that do you think a CW will get off before stamina is completely drained, encounters are on cooldown, and the faster moving GWF is bashing him back to the respawn point?
That being said, 2 similarly geared CWs can blow up a single GWF.
Should also add that if daily is up & Ice Knife crits on hit right after the Chill Strike, it can kill a sent in a rotation (requiring crit on chill strike & ice knife prior to unstop being activated), though it is pretty rare.
You dont have to kill him, just keep pushing him off the node as long as you can. That only can screw his role up, since he cant cap anything if he keeps getting repeled.
Also, you have 3 dodges, you can use them to stay away while he is hulked out, you may die eventually but it would be a hell out of a long fight. However like you mentioned, 2 CWs would melt him down in seconds.
I dont understand what the obsession is with class balance. Classes in D&D are NOT balanced, they are specialized. If you dont like being killed in melee dont confront melee units... What this does is reduce all characters to the same cookie cutter <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and takes what tiny bit of flavor and diversity that exists away.
Gentlemen. It IS self mutilation. You can either have balance (all the same toons doing all the same things) or you can have diversity.
Balance and Diversity are opposites. Just shocked at how many like these nearly identical toons soo much.
Balance will always equate to no character diversity. *shakes head*
On an aside, why is it so important to balance every games pvp so that every class can kill every other class?
Doesn't that make you guys feel like PvP is exactly the same in every game?
I have really enjoyed the pvp in this game, mainly because of this diversity. I picked GWF and dealt with the live nerf, and everyone in guild and in server telling me that I was boned and broken. Despite this, I've made the class work, and feel very good at it, as I've gotten to test myself against some acclaimed players.
I think that this diversity is a concept that is foreign to many younger generation players. They are so used to cookie cutter builds and being identical classes with different colors and skins. The concept of a tank that can fight off more than one player is completely wrong in their logic. Though, I find it funny that they are not bothered by classes that can do more damage than three of the five other classes combined in just one hit.
But there is a difference. This is one of the few unique games that has great, simple and diverse pvp, no matter how crappy the game mode and how few the maps. It's not built on that 'lets make everything 1v1 or the players will cry' mentality.
In the end, there is a few common pvp complaints out right now that I feel developers should look into: TR stacked immunities by going from stealth to itc, etc; an enchant (tenebrous) acting in all mechanics like and attachment but being stackable and allowing low-damage balanced classes (permastealth TR, sent/regen GWF, GF's, and apparently even DC's) to apply far more damage than the tank should allow; too-low damage output for tank class alt specs for GWF, DC and GF; too-low tank capability for CW alt specs; map design and gametype favoring tanks as point disruptors instead of defenders; And most importantly in my book, feat lines which lack capability in PvP (each feat tree should be pvp capable, only gear should be PvE or PvP focused; you can swap and earn more gear, but changing feats is too costly to be good in both gametypes).
"Every adventurer has two things in common: they don't like dying, and they love getting paid. The rest is just semantics." Brecken, famed mercenary of Baldur's Gate
Comments
Troll post fail....
A skilled, geared CW will just kite/cc the GWF. Itd probably just end up in a draw, if that CW is a really good kiter/CCr. This is w/o tene. With tene. Just run.
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
Not the only. Its ONE of the aspects. Without tene, I could get MORE hp and MORE regen and be MORE tanky and require ATLEAST 2 players to kill me...
In a Pre vs Pre match, or even pugs... that is how you win games...
the fact that BOTH of you are ignorant of this and the fact that you, esteena, dont have greaters just proves my point. Your NOT the top GWF or even one of the top players on your server... YOu think your build is ok because you only run regular tenes...
Its not "just 2.5k" damage more its much more then that due to the serverside CD...
Dante, dont try and troll more bro, you just asked what makes the build so OP.... Obviously your new and have no experienced how OP it is...
People who defend Sent GWFs and/or Tenes are ONLY the people that play them.... Why is that? AND if I have them, why am I asking for them to nerf my OWN class?
Im also asking for not just a nerf, but a way to buff the other specs for the class to make pvp more competative for everyone and make it so PvP isnt "Sent or GTFO"
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
This is my entire point....
Yes, Sent GWFs cant do ANY damage without Tene... thats NOT the issue. Its that Sent GWF builds are pure troll builds that even without tene, are required for any good premade match...
It requires MORE than 1 person to kill them. PERIOD. You can send 1 person to TIE them/counter them, either another GWF or regen GF whatever. But the fact remains that a "DPS Class" Specced tank, can out mitigate and out heal a players damage...
A GWF should be JUST as tanky, if not even a little less, than a GF specced the same way. a GF cant backcap very well pre vs pre like a GWf can.
What fun is the game when its mechanics are that way?
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
Sorry I only speak about what I know. I feel like posting for ADJUSTMENTS in classes that I dont play is self serving.
I have a GWF with 7 GTE. I am calling for adjustments to GTE AND Sent Spec.
I have a Perf Vorp TR, I havnt posted yet about this but lashing blade needs a nerf. (NOT 100% crit in stealth but a reduced CD instead)
I have a GF (two actually) with 6 GTE (only on 1) and AGAIN, am calling for a GTE nerf...
I dont play DC or CW so I wont post about their gear/builds. Its up to that class to post about their own OPness.
But again, I HAVE these classes, and am giving my feedback...
no one can kill GWF sentinel 1 vs 1, and i certainly never said a CW killed me 1 on 1. I dont know if you have bad reading comprehension or i werent so clear.
Lets cut your <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> by a simple scenario,
You are on your OP GWF in your ghosted server, and queued for PVP.
You went vs your Pug enemy team to cap their home point, you are 1 person.
The enemy team manage to cap the other 2 points while you are caping their home points. they come to you and woops , you are having 2 stacks of RoI and a GF pronning you. Your team tries to cap the other 2 points again, but they couldn't....because you are dead.
Lets have another scenario, Premade vs Preamade your team has 2 CW ,you , 1 GF and 1 TR and the enemy team has the same combination.
The GF stand in the middle pronning everyone while CWs debuffing and the TR killing. The enemy sentinel is probably fighting you now on one of the nodes,you two are alone, 4ever lasting fight right? lets says your team failed to cap the other 2 points, they come at you now, GF prones you..you re on the floor, 2 RoI, some plague fire stack, 1 lashing blade and you rest in peace. So much for your " icantankeverythaaaang" argument.
You aren't immortal, you aren't OP. Good team can easily defeat you. You are only OP vs pugs, because Pugs are lowly geared and don't have proper enchantment and yes 10k+ GS is high enough, not low. You haven't met the challenge, never will in your server, no offense, it is full of of roleplayers.
And that's exactly why you think you are OP. Cheers.
No because if you just send a CW to backcap, he can be killed 1v1 easily. The ONLY class that forces a draw at BEST 1v1 is GWF. Therefore you HAVE to send a counter to him (1 person means a draw at best and only IF they dont run tene) Any good premade will have a tene GWF, and therefore you CANT send anything else BUT a regen spec GF or GWF who can also out heal and mitigate the damage put out.
So maybe you should
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
itll STILL be OP in the sense that you play a backcapper in a premade or even a pug.. Itll take 2 ppl to kill you or 1 to tie you at best...
That is why its dumb. because the build cannot be beaten 1v1 by ANY class with ANY spec played by ANY "skilled" player. It just cant be done.
If your REALLY lucky every once in a while a CW or TR can get a daily off that doesnt get deflected combined with high burst that doesnt get deflected and MAYBE kill him...
Exactly, while the Sent GWf stands on the point and its a wash.... How is that fun at all... How is that how pvp needs to be played because its the most competitive way to win?
when you play domination you are not playing 1on1 deathmatch. your main objective is to prevent capping and then cap, not even killing.
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
Never said anything about PvE players, i said a Bis PvP players will always pass 10k GS+ , which is high enough.
Why didnt you tank all of them? *tsk tsk*
Thats the thing, you dont even have a point. You fought against bad low players and came to conclusion you are OP while i fought against geared players and saw that im not that OP. Hence why you lost vs lemonade stand, if you are OP, you could have tanked them at their home point like you claimed before.
Not sure who is attacking who here xD.
OR you can send 1 CW that can perma CC you, repel you and annoy the hell outta you. You wont die, neither will he. You are a melee and thats a weakness.
You clearly dont know anything about competitive PvP.
The way the guild started looking at a Sent GWF back cap was to send a GF to bounce him off the node. Since our team is also back capping and forcing a 1v1 at both points and mid being pivot, we found it much more fun and in line with team work pvp. You can then adjust who does which role according to matchup and skill.
In all honesty i really don't have an issue with GWF.If it takes 2 to 4 players to kill me then there is nothing wrong with GWF.
Well the only thing i have a hard time with is keeping up.
GWFs are suppose to be tanks.
Gear score bug does mess with the GWF defense.
I for one do know how stong CW debuffs are, which is why 2 out of my 4 encounters in pvp are feated COI and ROE.
12.5k GS + HV + GPF + Thaum COI + ROE + 2 more feat debuffs + EF + Chill Strike = GWF at 50% health (if Chill Strike crits) & a full bar for unstoppable. By the time unstoppable is over they should be back up to around 3/4 health or more. How many rotations of that do you think a CW will get off before stamina is completely drained, encounters are on cooldown, and the faster moving GWF is bashing him back to the respawn point?
That being said, 2 similarly geared CWs can blow up a single GWF.
Should also add that if daily is up & Ice Knife crits on hit right after the Chill Strike, it can kill a sent in a rotation (requiring crit on chill strike & ice knife prior to unstop being activated), though it is pretty rare.
You said low GS vs High Gs. GS means nothing. I could even get below 10k GS and STILL roll over bad players with high GS. 10.4k is not high GS. That my only point is your post saying a low GS player cant kill a high one. 10k versus 16k that 16k GS makes the 10k look low... Its actually a BIGGER difference than even a 8k GS player versus a `10k GWF... But guess what. the 8k versus the 10k doesnt stand a chance in hell against the 10k GS GWF and neither does the 16k GS (who is DOUBLE) Simple logic can tell you GS means nothing. You back peddling now.
They ran GTE on four of their characters AND I didnt play my GWf in the match, I played my GF.
Prove to me I played against bad players? YOu keep saying this but have NO date to back this up... Thats what amazes me... You want to throw my arguement out the window by discounting ME by saying i only play against baddies.. Well the person making the claim holds the burden of proof.
So show me how there are NO good players on Mindflayer.
Google "Ad hominem"
Looking forward to fresh meat.
They would have to change a whole lot of classes/skills to rebalance it, you don't like bunker builds that is your main complaint here. Meta and game mode objective is the main complaint.
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
And who said that a high GS player has to be bad. How about a high GS and good player? i don't know why you don't put that in consideration. I rarely see high GS bad players. You are basing your argument on the minority of bad High GS players, while im here talking about majority. and yes, 10k+ is high enough for PvP, again, im talking about BiS PvP i don't know why you keep generalizing into the PvE GS. Get your facts straight, or quote where did i speak about BiS PvE players/
You made a claim you are OP, show us a video of you beating the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of Good premade team. You have the same burden my friend.
You dont have to kill him, just keep pushing him off the node as long as you can. That only can screw his role up, since he cant cap anything if he keeps getting repeled.
Also, you have 3 dodges, you can use them to stay away while he is hulked out, you may die eventually but it would be a hell out of a long fight. However like you mentioned, 2 CWs would melt him down in seconds.
Normally I agree with the stuff you post esteena. But this is silly and completely false.
Lots of people can kill Sent GWF's.
TR's there worst enemy when below 50% health.
49% Health? 36-39k Sent GWF? Shocking Execution >Dead GWF....
Not sure if I misunderstood your post and this was sarcasm? If so I'm sorry, if not. then....silly post, completely false..
Gentlemen. It IS self mutilation. You can either have balance (all the same toons doing all the same things) or you can have diversity.
Balance and Diversity are opposites. Just shocked at how many like these nearly identical toons soo much.
Balance will always equate to no character diversity. *shakes head*
On an aside, why is it so important to balance every games pvp so that every class can kill every other class?
Doesn't that make you guys feel like PvP is exactly the same in every game?
I have really enjoyed the pvp in this game, mainly because of this diversity. I picked GWF and dealt with the live nerf, and everyone in guild and in server telling me that I was boned and broken. Despite this, I've made the class work, and feel very good at it, as I've gotten to test myself against some acclaimed players.
I think that this diversity is a concept that is foreign to many younger generation players. They are so used to cookie cutter builds and being identical classes with different colors and skins. The concept of a tank that can fight off more than one player is completely wrong in their logic. Though, I find it funny that they are not bothered by classes that can do more damage than three of the five other classes combined in just one hit.
But there is a difference. This is one of the few unique games that has great, simple and diverse pvp, no matter how crappy the game mode and how few the maps. It's not built on that 'lets make everything 1v1 or the players will cry' mentality.
In the end, there is a few common pvp complaints out right now that I feel developers should look into: TR stacked immunities by going from stealth to itc, etc; an enchant (tenebrous) acting in all mechanics like and attachment but being stackable and allowing low-damage balanced classes (permastealth TR, sent/regen GWF, GF's, and apparently even DC's) to apply far more damage than the tank should allow; too-low damage output for tank class alt specs for GWF, DC and GF; too-low tank capability for CW alt specs; map design and gametype favoring tanks as point disruptors instead of defenders; And most importantly in my book, feat lines which lack capability in PvP (each feat tree should be pvp capable, only gear should be PvE or PvP focused; you can swap and earn more gear, but changing feats is too costly to be good in both gametypes).
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters