Anyway, your point is moot because other classes were nerfed as well. Some - yes, like DCs - are getting stealth-nerfs even post-patch. Some still experience severe problems with a class-defining feature - unstoppable bug is still not fixed. Not to mention the Stalwart debacle.
Stop it, please. People who remember your "awesome" videos and how you were boasting about your l33t sk1lz are still active on this forum, you know.
My videos of my TR and CW show me crushing people in PvP.
Wheres your videos so we can critique you?......................................<
yah I thought so
And considered that the TR in it's current state, can do everything at once... while other classes can't even do what their class is supposed to do.
excuse me, please send me a video of TR tanking a boss on dungeon(take the best hit from a boss and remain standing), managng aggro (make mobs attack him rather than the group), CCing everything, beating everything on AoE continuously, buffing his teammates and healing the whole group as they are plummeted by absurd amounts of damage. Then i will take your word for it.
If you cant do that, you may want to reconsider your "fact" that TRs can perform all roles in this game better than the classes that are dedicated to their roles.
They actually show you steamrolling pugs with a premade and trying to poke GWF under unstoppable with daily. Yeah, totally cool.
Show me a video of you doing PvP. Of you "not" making 1 single Mistake. Then you can bring up my Daily on the gwf, **** happens.
If you weren't such a tool and watched the rest of the video, or the many other countless videos I have posted. You would have noticed I never Q'd with a premade...ever
Your just spitting random forum poo at me because you still suck with your DC.
I was in a pretty good mood before. Just ended a PVP round with the rogues I resent the most.
Stealth around the corner, move in to the target closest to death, IcT, Impact shot 3x... back to stealth. Repeat until match ends.
It is so no-skill and boring for everyone I'm sure. They look like robots moving straight from A to B pressing button 1, 2 and 3. Probably one of them 7-year-olds I was referring to before.
What is the risk in that?
BTW, it was a medium to good rogue with 5500 to 7300 Impact shots.
Show me a video of you doing PvP. Of you "not" making 1 single Mistake. Then you can bring up my Daily on the gwf, **** happens.
Oh boy, do I like it when people are getting so nervous and use Ad hominem instead of real arguments. Please, try to stay on topic, Munkey, this wasn't a thread about you teaching others to play.
Like i said before, you can talk your class weaker as much as you like. The devs won't listen, they have accurate data and will act accordingly. And considered that the TR in it's current state, can do everything at once... while other classes can't even do what their class is supposed to do... mmmh how much is 1 + 1 again? According to the TRs it is 3 i guess.
Have a good evening, friends.
Oh, i almost forgot something:
The word is called roll, not role... :rolleyes: I also keep on reading TR posts using "there" instead of they're, or their... is that a new trend or something? It makes you guys truly look like knowledged people.
Haha, you gotta love this guy! Reading his posts is one of the things I really look forward to here on the forum.
If I met him IRL I'd buy him a beer the first thing.
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faiteaccompliiMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2
edited August 2013
I don't know what you are talking about, I play a CW (who is 60th) and a DC who is approaching 40th. I have no issues with rogues unless they are EXTREMELY well played. Yes, a very very well played rogue is a force to contend with as it should be, they are hard to kill (as they always get away) and they are deadly dps. However, I as a CW have many tools to get away from said rogue and I have tools with which to kill them as well (or just get away and kite them into my team)
As my DC on the other hand I can actually stand my ground with most rogues and have tools to get away as well. Yes, a well played rogue is deadly to both my characters but so are my characters to other classes and the rogue has to have a LOT Of factors line up in his/her favor in order to have things go really well with a kill.
Honestly, rogues are fine and though it sounds clich
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faiteaccompliiMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2
edited August 2013
To OP what class are you perhaps we can give you some helpful tips, but depends on class whether I can or not.
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faiteaccompliiMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2
edited August 2013
As a CW I move around so much that I have had people actually chase me across the map just to prove they can eventually catch me. The good thing about that is I either lead them into harms way and they die or they give up OR if I die I caused them to stay away from catching nodes long enough to do my team good. Win/win.
Learn to anticipate and move before they get to you. Keep them off balance, move move move, never stop moving as a CW in pvp, run around things, hide, etc.
And make sure your character is not just a glass cannon in PVP you also need some survivability
I agree, Tr have a too high survivability. This has to be addressed and changed. they can tank better in pvp than the actual tanks, while taking no damage they can faceroll, which is a no-go.
Let's hope the developers swing the nerf bat into the proper direction, when the next update gets released.
TR's are NOT hard to kill except as they can run away so well, vanish etc. I have yet to see one withstand high amounts of dmg. I don't know what you guys are playing but not the game I play. TR are not OP to me. I have never seen one stand up like a tank. Maybe its just someone who has really really good gear and put time and money into enchants and also into learning to play very well . Those are the ones I hate. But I'd not say they need a nerf as if I play right I can survive most of them (not all and for sure not 2 on me at once! )
This is exactly what TR do. + dps. So basically you have a selfhealing dps tank with endless cc + cc immunity. No clue what your quote is about, at all. You tank by using itc + dodge if needed at times, i guarantee you, that you are able to take any hit. Since you deal alot of damage, you can heal yourself better than an actual cleric, too. You either play a different game, or are trying to tell us a fairytale.
Facts will remain facts, it is what it is.
Bye, bye.
Facts? hmmm Facts should have proof and you fail to support what you claim are facts. You are a liar spreading misinformation about TRs. Your claim that TR heal better than clerics because they deal tons of damage is ludicrous and you must be in a fairytale if you claim it is a fact. Some TRs do have life steal but it is mainly a part of the gear not the class. Some TRs have regeneration but it is again mainly part of the gear and not part of the class.The life steal and regeneration does not heal on the level of a cleric. A TR maybe able to solo a regular dungeon and survive but not anything stronger. CWs can also solo regular dungeons because a guild mate of mine has done it with his CW. You have no proof what so ever that TRs do everything. Even if you did it would like you are simply jealous of TRs. Have a nice day.
Every class has advantages and disadvantages. Learn the disadvantages of you class to overcome them. Learn the advantages of your class and the disadvatages of other classes to use them in pvp to win.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
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kingculexMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I was in a pretty good mood before. Just ended a PVP round with the rogues I resent the most.
Stealth around the corner, move in to the target closest to death, IcT, Impact shot 3x... back to stealth. Repeat until match ends.
It is so no-skill and boring for everyone I'm sure. They look like robots moving straight from A to B pressing button 1, 2 and 3. Probably one of them 7-year-olds I was referring to before.
What is the risk in that?
BTW, it was a medium to good rogue with 5500 to 7300 Impact shots.
Then stop playing pvp....But if you stopped the rest of the forums would not have anything to laugh at. You resent rogues? Thanks for admitting you are just a cry baby who is biased against rogues. Have a nice day.
Every class has advantages and disadvantages. Learn the disadvantages of you class to overcome them. Learn the advantages of your class and the disadvatages of other classes to use them in pvp to win.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
Seriously, the posts here are ridiculous...How old are all of you?
Where do you get all of this information? A level 60 TR who spends 40k AD on equip can one shot people? I must be doing something wrong...
60's pvp, I was 1 or 2 shotting people(cw's, dc's) in cheap reg t1 pvp gear and rank 5 enchants. Rogues have to be the dumbest, no talent/skill having class in the game. Without stun, rogues would be useless that's why they can only kill people that can't fight back. lol
Impact shot 3x... back to stealth. Repeat until match ends.
A brain dead chimp can play a rogue, except when you actually have to play and use strategy like every other class instead of hiding and ganking players or ks'n from your own teammates.:)
Queen of Dragon Server
Goddess Uniique, lvl 60 DC.
PinkSugar, lvl 60 CW.
Baby Cakes, lvl 60 GWF.
*******, lvl 60 TR.
Premium Juicebox, lvl 60 CW.
Pink Exxxtacy, Ranger There is NO pvp in Neverwinter.
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borgued3Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 150Bounty Hunter
This is exactly what TR do. + dps. So basically you have a selfhealing dps tank with endless cc + cc immunity. No clue what your quote is about, at all. You tank by using itc + dodge if needed at times, i guarantee you, that you are able to take any hit. Since you deal alot of damage, you can heal yourself better than an actual cleric, too. You either play a different game, or are trying to tell us a fairytale.
Facts will remain facts, it is what it is.
Bye, bye.
ok....point out to me a rogue's aggro managing skill, then i will believe he is a tank. If you mean that a rogue is a tank because he can avoid damage with dodge, then heck, every class is a tank on this game. Aggro management is the keyword here pal, if you dont have it, you are NOT a tank, thats why when we enter a dungeon with lets say 3 CWs and 1 TR and 1 DC, but 0 GFs we say we have 0 tanks, because we know that despite being able to dodge the big hits with teleport/surfing/dodging, we have 0 aggro management and the mobs will chew us alive.
Also, endless cc? We got dazing skills but they are far from perma CC and only 2 hit on area (smoke bomb and dazzing strike assuming mobs are packed togheter), we are nowhere near a CW when it comes down to CROWD control (yeah, remember what the first C of CC means, if we cant hold a CROWD of mobs under control its not CC).
Also self healing? Maybe with life steal but so can any class with that stat high enough, so now every class is a healer just like every class is a tank according to your logic, but you pointed out he outperforms a cleric on this function, so i assume he can heal others, not just himself with lifesteal, again, show me how and name the healing power he has.
CC immunity is there for 5 secs called ItC, but yeah it counts, probably your only valid point
so again i ask you, show me a video of a ROGUE on epic dungeons where he will manage aggro better than a tank (and i mean have all mobs attack him rather than his partners), take damage better than a tank (you cant dodge forever) while holding all the mobs chewing on him, heals the group better than the DC (yes, the group, he is only a better healer than DC if he can heal others rather than just himself) and hold packs of mobs controlled better than a CW with actual CROWD control powers and AoE damage.
Untill you provide the link to a video showing all of what i just asked, keep your mouth closed, you are embarassing yourself.
EDIT:
actually, make more than 1 video, make 1 with rogue doing a epic dungeon and then other 4 videos with all other classes doing the same thing so we can compare if he actually outperformed them, and if you wanna include statistics with charts it would be awessome.
But until you can give everything i just asked, you have only baseless assumptions, not "facts" as you name them.
Then stop playing pvp....But if you stopped the rest of the forums would not have anything to laugh at. You resent rogues? Thanks for admitting you are just a cry baby who is biased against rogues. Have a nice day.
Your name, King Clueless (that is how it's pronounced?), really suits you.
Everyone from when they were young knows that any game or competition must be balanced to be fun.
Yes, I resent the rogues exploiting their abilities like that. They bring little to the table for their team and offer a very unbalanced game for the opponents. It's better being AFK.
Or, did I just step on your toes? Don't tell me you are one of them rogues?
You are free to complain about anything. This isn't a thread about CW's but if it were I'd had some issues with, for example, Ice Knife and many CW's locking down a single target.
Stealth in combination with high damage, immunity and potential chain stun is really bad. It's skilless and unbalanced.
Those who choose to ignore that in PUGs are either:
1. Rogues
2. People PVP:ing rarely
3. Classes not really affected (until they meet real top rogues)
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borgued3Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 150Bounty Hunter
You are free to complain about anything. This isn't a thread about CW's but if it were I'd had some issues with, for example, Ice Knife and many CW's locking down a single target.
Stealth in combination with high damage, immunity and potential chain stun is really bad. It's skilless and unbalanced.
Those who choose to ignore that in PUGs are either:
1. Rogues
2. People PVP:ing rarely
3. Classes not really affected (until they meet real top rogues)
i am unaware of rogues able to chain stun....i believe you are mistaking us with CW/GWF/GF, please teach me how to chain stun with a rogue and name the skills that cause the exact stun debuff.
About stealth, we rogues are tired of telling you guys how to deal with it, so i wont do it again, just go read the other rogue hate threads and get the actual useful posts concerning stealth.
High damage is there because the ONLY thing rogues excel on pve is damage, they cant tank, or perma CC, or heal, or do AOE dmg as efficiently as the other classes, so they MUST have single target burst for them to be desirable on groups for dungeons, it is meant to be high, but in exchange we are glass cannons constantly 1hit KO when we fail to dodge the big blows from mobs or bosses.
The combition you mentioned is as umbalanced as any perma CC/Prone/Stun combination that CW/GF/GWF can bring to the table as i already mentioned. All classes have a scale tipping factor, so if you are gonna complain on rogue being umbalanced, prepare to do the same for the other classes.
Sorry to repeat again but it seems the message hasnt sunk deep enough yet, this is a LEARN TO PLAY ISSUE. The moment you learn to counter rogues you will see they arent half as unbalanced as you point out. You may be an excellent gamer on everything you played so far, but that wont free you from the fact that here, on NWN, you need to LEARN TO PLAY in order to counter the class you are complaining about.
3. Classes not really affected (until they meet real top rogues)
So you mean that some CLASSES (in plural) arent affected by rogues, unless of course they stumble on really top notch ones (AKA the 5% elite stacked with gtenes and pvorpal)?
You realize you transformed your whole point into a rant:
"My class cant fight rogues as efficiently as others so rogues are umbalanced"
so the same way you try to point other classes out for not caring for rogues just because they arent affected as hard as you, like some sort of self centered people who dont mind as long as their butt isnt hurting, you are also being self centered, because if YOUR class isnt able to handle things as well as the others then something must be done and that something is nerf the opposing class untill you can fight it.
And by no means think that i am making short work out of CWs, the good ones can perfectly deal with rogues putting up epic fights and assuring their victory, its just that you are not among them.
I fail to acnowledge your point and in my opinion you just gave people a /thread on this and proved to me one more time that this is L2P issue and that it fits you like a glove
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jay0011Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 5Arc User
60's pvp, I was 1 or 2 shotting people(cw's, dc's) in cheap reg t1 pvp gear and rank 5 enchants. Rogues have to be the dumbest, no talent/skill having class in the game. Without stun, rogues would be useless that's why they can only kill people that can't fight back. lol
A brain dead chimp can play a rogue, except when you actually have to play and use strategy like every other class instead of hiding and ganking players or ks'n from your own teammates.:)
To your first paragraph, it simply does not happen now that lurkers is nerfed, and even pre nerf to 1 shot them they must have been 8k GS as well. Pre nerf my CW was 1-shot 1 time (I pvp all the time) and it was by a guild mate that has P vorpal and Tene's.
To your 2nd paragraph, a brain dead chimp can only do well vs another brain dead chimp. If you actually know the mechanics of TR you can counter them quite well on nearly every other class. Impact was nerfed, lurkers was nerfed, and Lashing is never a 1 shot unless you have P vorpal, tene's, AND the enemy is in blue's/green's now that LA was nerfed. ItC is so bugged atm that I find it not worth slotting on my bar.
I have 2300 ArP, 49% crit, and a regular vorpal and I have only one shotted a couple players, and I only even try to one shot them after I see how terribad their gear is and know that it might be possible.
I have every class but DC doing competitive 60 PvP, while TR can be very strong with my semi perma stealth build (I slot shadow strike and BaS) one incorrect move and I die immediately, it's not just walk up press LB and I auto win, that's stupid...
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
I wrote potential chain stun... potential. I don't know if it's a lag issue where my ping is too high and/or teleport skill is handled diffrently than for instance repel. But I'm 100% certain, and I have played a lot, that sometimes I can't port between Impact shots.
My best guess is that players with super low ping can chain stun players with higher ping. Same as when I hang some people they come down just a little too fast for my follow ups to hit. Other players hang longer after my follow ups are out.
Otherwise I maybe spam port unsynced, even if I hammer it as fast as I can?
So yes, I'm 100% sure that sometimes Impact shots will hit me so fast that I can't port in-between. Please note, not <100%.
About "3. Classes not really affected (until they meet real top rogues)"
For instance, a well geared GF does not really care about medium geared rogues for two reasons:
1. They have high def, deflect and HP. If the medium rogue attacks they will enter the circle of stun and die.
2. The medium rogues chose not to attack them solo.
Please explain how that was a rant?
Your logic is flawed...
How do you know I'm not one of those who give rogues a hard time? You don't.
Just continue playing your rogue and tell yourself that it's your skill that puts you at third place in PUGs.
I play DC/TR/GWF/CW - and if any1 says a TR's balanced are totally out of his mind i easily destroy any1 and im not even "cookie cutter" built with him.
Only class that even give a challenge is another well played TR - DC/CW i easily kill as i usually take 60-70% of theyre health before then even have time to react (how any1 actually defending this by saying you can hear it comming makes me laugh).
To this i dont even have perfect Vorpal on my TR - yet.
I play DC/TR/GWF/CW - and if any1 says a TR's balanced are totally out of his mind i easily destroy any1 and im not even "cookie cutter" built with him.
Only class that even give a challenge is another well played TR - DC/CW i easily kill as i usually take 60-70% of theyre health before then even have time to react (how any1 actually defending this by saying you can hear it comming makes me laugh).
To this i dont even have perfect Vorpal on my TR - yet.
You obviously haven't faced good GF's or Sent GWF's then. And if you're saying LB can't be dodged you're not very smart...
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
If you defending TR's ability to shut down most classes - i dont think its me that is the dumb one.
TR's require greater vorpal or better BiS gear and good enchants to even do well in a premade environment. I am speaking about good players vs good players.
My GWF can /dance while TR repeatedly attacks me (with greater vorpal) and my regen ticks + unstoppable hp (feated) keep me alive forever. I have died one time to a TR and it was because I was standing in DF for fun and he had perf vorpal, 6 Gtene's, and I didn't interrupt his shocking fast enough. Any class can be great in a pug environment, I am top spot when I solo q 9/10 times and that is on my CW, TR, GF, and GWF. Maybe 5/10 on GWF as he has no damage but never dies.
If you get caught by a single prone a GOOD GF will kill you in 1 rotation, not to mention he probably has help nearby. If you get CC'd once without ItC up vs. good players you're dead. We're not talking about the 6k GS pvp daily grinders that you are matched up with in solo q.
In a premade environment TR is not OP, but instead NEEDS G. vorpal to even be an asset.
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
I play DC/TR/GWF/CW - and if any1 says a TR's balanced are totally out of his mind i easily destroy any1 and im not even "cookie cutter" built with him.
Only class that even give a challenge is another well played TR - DC/CW i easily kill as i usually take 60-70% of theyre health before then even have time to react (how any1 actually defending this by saying you can hear it comming makes me laugh).
To this i dont even have perfect Vorpal on my TR - yet.
Well then I suggest getting your ears checked or paying closer attention to what's going on around you. Listen to abacuser's video. You can hear the Lurker's Assault go off before the Rogue appears in front of him. You can hear the Shadow Strike before it lands. People aren't saying you can hear the Rogue tip-toeing up to someone, they are saying you can hear certain abilities being activated before they do anything. A big part of fighting a Rogue in stealth is the audio cues. Laugh all you like, it doesn't change the fact that it's true. If you like, I'll reference the times in the video where the abilities are activated by sound.
I can only assume that the people you fight have a much higher latency than you or don't know what is happening (ie. they panic or get confused) if you can hit them for 70% of their health every time before they do anything. I'm also wondering what their teammates are doing when you appear.
Finally, I doubt it's 70% of their health as well. In previous threads, abacuser rants about the threat of being one-shot constantly. When pressured about this statement, it changes to ~50%. When he links a video that supposedly shows how OP Rogues are, we see (and hear) the Rogue has to blow everything (including a daily) to kill him from 65% health.
In short, your story doesn't add up coffola. There's no way to tell if there's a big gear difference between you and the people you fight, there's no way to tell how bad their connections are and these opponents don't read as if they know what they are doing. I'm quite confident that a large part of your success as a Rogue is down to other people not knowing. Why? Because every other person I've questioned about how OP Rogues are ends up hinting at other factors (in your case it would be not listening for cues) contributing to their deaths other than just getting ROFLSTOMPED by some supposed godlike entity.
Comments
My videos of my TR and CW show me crushing people in PvP.
Wheres your videos so we can critique you?......................................<
yah I thought so
They actually show you steamrolling pugs with a premade and trying to poke GWF under unstoppable with daily. Yeah, totally cool.
excuse me, please send me a video of TR tanking a boss on dungeon(take the best hit from a boss and remain standing), managng aggro (make mobs attack him rather than the group), CCing everything, beating everything on AoE continuously, buffing his teammates and healing the whole group as they are plummeted by absurd amounts of damage. Then i will take your word for it.
If you cant do that, you may want to reconsider your "fact" that TRs can perform all roles in this game better than the classes that are dedicated to their roles.
Show me a video of you doing PvP. Of you "not" making 1 single Mistake. Then you can bring up my Daily on the gwf, **** happens.
If you weren't such a tool and watched the rest of the video, or the many other countless videos I have posted. You would have noticed I never Q'd with a premade...ever
Your just spitting random forum poo at me because you still suck with your DC.
> Cant wait to see your videos <
Stealth around the corner, move in to the target closest to death, IcT, Impact shot 3x... back to stealth. Repeat until match ends.
It is so no-skill and boring for everyone I'm sure. They look like robots moving straight from A to B pressing button 1, 2 and 3. Probably one of them 7-year-olds I was referring to before.
What is the risk in that?
BTW, it was a medium to good rogue with 5500 to 7300 Impact shots.
Oh boy, do I like it when people are getting so nervous and use Ad hominem instead of real arguments. Please, try to stay on topic, Munkey, this wasn't a thread about you teaching others to play.
If I met him IRL I'd buy him a beer the first thing.
As my DC on the other hand I can actually stand my ground with most rogues and have tools to get away as well. Yes, a well played rogue is deadly to both my characters but so are my characters to other classes and the rogue has to have a LOT Of factors line up in his/her favor in order to have things go really well with a kill.
Honestly, rogues are fine and though it sounds clich
Learn to anticipate and move before they get to you. Keep them off balance, move move move, never stop moving as a CW in pvp, run around things, hide, etc.
And make sure your character is not just a glass cannon in PVP you also need some survivability
Where do you get all of this information? A level 60 TR who spends 40k AD on equip can one shot people? I must be doing something wrong...
TR's are NOT hard to kill except as they can run away so well, vanish etc. I have yet to see one withstand high amounts of dmg. I don't know what you guys are playing but not the game I play. TR are not OP to me. I have never seen one stand up like a tank. Maybe its just someone who has really really good gear and put time and money into enchants and also into learning to play very well . Those are the ones I hate. But I'd not say they need a nerf as if I play right I can survive most of them (not all and for sure not 2 on me at once! )
Im a TR and I approve this message. Impact is skill-less button spamming and is OP in PvP and useless in PvE.
"look I can hit the same button 4 times"
Facts? hmmm Facts should have proof and you fail to support what you claim are facts. You are a liar spreading misinformation about TRs. Your claim that TR heal better than clerics because they deal tons of damage is ludicrous and you must be in a fairytale if you claim it is a fact. Some TRs do have life steal but it is mainly a part of the gear not the class. Some TRs have regeneration but it is again mainly part of the gear and not part of the class.The life steal and regeneration does not heal on the level of a cleric. A TR maybe able to solo a regular dungeon and survive but not anything stronger. CWs can also solo regular dungeons because a guild mate of mine has done it with his CW. You have no proof what so ever that TRs do everything. Even if you did it would like you are simply jealous of TRs. Have a nice day.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
Then stop playing pvp....But if you stopped the rest of the forums would not have anything to laugh at. You resent rogues? Thanks for admitting you are just a cry baby who is biased against rogues. Have a nice day.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
60's pvp, I was 1 or 2 shotting people(cw's, dc's) in cheap reg t1 pvp gear and rank 5 enchants. Rogues have to be the dumbest, no talent/skill having class in the game. Without stun, rogues would be useless that's why they can only kill people that can't fight back. lol A brain dead chimp can play a rogue, except when you actually have to play and use strategy like every other class instead of hiding and ganking players or ks'n from your own teammates.:)
PinkSugar, lvl 60 CW.
Baby Cakes, lvl 60 GWF.
*******, lvl 60 TR.
Premium Juicebox, lvl 60 CW.
Pink Exxxtacy, Ranger
There is NO pvp in Neverwinter.
ok....point out to me a rogue's aggro managing skill, then i will believe he is a tank. If you mean that a rogue is a tank because he can avoid damage with dodge, then heck, every class is a tank on this game. Aggro management is the keyword here pal, if you dont have it, you are NOT a tank, thats why when we enter a dungeon with lets say 3 CWs and 1 TR and 1 DC, but 0 GFs we say we have 0 tanks, because we know that despite being able to dodge the big hits with teleport/surfing/dodging, we have 0 aggro management and the mobs will chew us alive.
Also, endless cc? We got dazing skills but they are far from perma CC and only 2 hit on area (smoke bomb and dazzing strike assuming mobs are packed togheter), we are nowhere near a CW when it comes down to CROWD control (yeah, remember what the first C of CC means, if we cant hold a CROWD of mobs under control its not CC).
Also self healing? Maybe with life steal but so can any class with that stat high enough, so now every class is a healer just like every class is a tank according to your logic, but you pointed out he outperforms a cleric on this function, so i assume he can heal others, not just himself with lifesteal, again, show me how and name the healing power he has.
CC immunity is there for 5 secs called ItC, but yeah it counts, probably your only valid point
so again i ask you, show me a video of a ROGUE on epic dungeons where he will manage aggro better than a tank (and i mean have all mobs attack him rather than his partners), take damage better than a tank (you cant dodge forever) while holding all the mobs chewing on him, heals the group better than the DC (yes, the group, he is only a better healer than DC if he can heal others rather than just himself) and hold packs of mobs controlled better than a CW with actual CROWD control powers and AoE damage.
Untill you provide the link to a video showing all of what i just asked, keep your mouth closed, you are embarassing yourself.
EDIT:
actually, make more than 1 video, make 1 with rogue doing a epic dungeon and then other 4 videos with all other classes doing the same thing so we can compare if he actually outperformed them, and if you wanna include statistics with charts it would be awessome.
But until you can give everything i just asked, you have only baseless assumptions, not "facts" as you name them.
Everyone from when they were young knows that any game or competition must be balanced to be fun.
Yes, I resent the rogues exploiting their abilities like that. They bring little to the table for their team and offer a very unbalanced game for the opponents. It's better being AFK.
Or, did I just step on your toes? Don't tell me you are one of them rogues?
Stealth in combination with high damage, immunity and potential chain stun is really bad. It's skilless and unbalanced.
Those who choose to ignore that in PUGs are either:
1. Rogues
2. People PVP:ing rarely
3. Classes not really affected (until they meet real top rogues)
i am unaware of rogues able to chain stun....i believe you are mistaking us with CW/GWF/GF, please teach me how to chain stun with a rogue and name the skills that cause the exact stun debuff.
About stealth, we rogues are tired of telling you guys how to deal with it, so i wont do it again, just go read the other rogue hate threads and get the actual useful posts concerning stealth.
High damage is there because the ONLY thing rogues excel on pve is damage, they cant tank, or perma CC, or heal, or do AOE dmg as efficiently as the other classes, so they MUST have single target burst for them to be desirable on groups for dungeons, it is meant to be high, but in exchange we are glass cannons constantly 1hit KO when we fail to dodge the big blows from mobs or bosses.
The combition you mentioned is as umbalanced as any perma CC/Prone/Stun combination that CW/GF/GWF can bring to the table as i already mentioned. All classes have a scale tipping factor, so if you are gonna complain on rogue being umbalanced, prepare to do the same for the other classes.
Sorry to repeat again but it seems the message hasnt sunk deep enough yet, this is a LEARN TO PLAY ISSUE. The moment you learn to counter rogues you will see they arent half as unbalanced as you point out. You may be an excellent gamer on everything you played so far, but that wont free you from the fact that here, on NWN, you need to LEARN TO PLAY in order to counter the class you are complaining about.
PERIOD.
EDIT:
So you mean that some CLASSES (in plural) arent affected by rogues, unless of course they stumble on really top notch ones (AKA the 5% elite stacked with gtenes and pvorpal)?
You realize you transformed your whole point into a rant:
"My class cant fight rogues as efficiently as others so rogues are umbalanced"
so the same way you try to point other classes out for not caring for rogues just because they arent affected as hard as you, like some sort of self centered people who dont mind as long as their butt isnt hurting, you are also being self centered, because if YOUR class isnt able to handle things as well as the others then something must be done and that something is nerf the opposing class untill you can fight it.
And by no means think that i am making short work out of CWs, the good ones can perfectly deal with rogues putting up epic fights and assuring their victory, its just that you are not among them.
I fail to acnowledge your point and in my opinion you just gave people a /thread on this and proved to me one more time that this is L2P issue and that it fits you like a glove
To your first paragraph, it simply does not happen now that lurkers is nerfed, and even pre nerf to 1 shot them they must have been 8k GS as well. Pre nerf my CW was 1-shot 1 time (I pvp all the time) and it was by a guild mate that has P vorpal and Tene's.
To your 2nd paragraph, a brain dead chimp can only do well vs another brain dead chimp. If you actually know the mechanics of TR you can counter them quite well on nearly every other class. Impact was nerfed, lurkers was nerfed, and Lashing is never a 1 shot unless you have P vorpal, tene's, AND the enemy is in blue's/green's now that LA was nerfed. ItC is so bugged atm that I find it not worth slotting on my bar.
I have 2300 ArP, 49% crit, and a regular vorpal and I have only one shotted a couple players, and I only even try to one shot them after I see how terribad their gear is and know that it might be possible.
I have every class but DC doing competitive 60 PvP, while TR can be very strong with my semi perma stealth build (I slot shadow strike and BaS) one incorrect move and I die immediately, it's not just walk up press LB and I auto win, that's stupid...
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
My best guess is that players with super low ping can chain stun players with higher ping. Same as when I hang some people they come down just a little too fast for my follow ups to hit. Other players hang longer after my follow ups are out.
Otherwise I maybe spam port unsynced, even if I hammer it as fast as I can?
So yes, I'm 100% sure that sometimes Impact shots will hit me so fast that I can't port in-between. Please note, not <100%.
About "3. Classes not really affected (until they meet real top rogues)"
For instance, a well geared GF does not really care about medium geared rogues for two reasons:
1. They have high def, deflect and HP. If the medium rogue attacks they will enter the circle of stun and die.
2. The medium rogues chose not to attack them solo.
Please explain how that was a rant?
Your logic is flawed...
How do you know I'm not one of those who give rogues a hard time? You don't.
Just continue playing your rogue and tell yourself that it's your skill that puts you at third place in PUGs.
Bye, bye, take care, cya...
Only class that even give a challenge is another well played TR - DC/CW i easily kill as i usually take 60-70% of theyre health before then even have time to react (how any1 actually defending this by saying you can hear it comming makes me laugh).
To this i dont even have perfect Vorpal on my TR - yet.
You obviously haven't faced good GF's or Sent GWF's then. And if you're saying LB can't be dodged you're not very smart...
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
If you defending TR's ability to shut down most classes - i dont think its me that is the dumb one.
TR's require greater vorpal or better BiS gear and good enchants to even do well in a premade environment. I am speaking about good players vs good players.
My GWF can /dance while TR repeatedly attacks me (with greater vorpal) and my regen ticks + unstoppable hp (feated) keep me alive forever. I have died one time to a TR and it was because I was standing in DF for fun and he had perf vorpal, 6 Gtene's, and I didn't interrupt his shocking fast enough. Any class can be great in a pug environment, I am top spot when I solo q 9/10 times and that is on my CW, TR, GF, and GWF. Maybe 5/10 on GWF as he has no damage but never dies.
If you get caught by a single prone a GOOD GF will kill you in 1 rotation, not to mention he probably has help nearby. If you get CC'd once without ItC up vs. good players you're dead. We're not talking about the 6k GS pvp daily grinders that you are matched up with in solo q.
In a premade environment TR is not OP, but instead NEEDS G. vorpal to even be an asset.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Well then I suggest getting your ears checked or paying closer attention to what's going on around you. Listen to abacuser's video. You can hear the Lurker's Assault go off before the Rogue appears in front of him. You can hear the Shadow Strike before it lands. People aren't saying you can hear the Rogue tip-toeing up to someone, they are saying you can hear certain abilities being activated before they do anything. A big part of fighting a Rogue in stealth is the audio cues. Laugh all you like, it doesn't change the fact that it's true. If you like, I'll reference the times in the video where the abilities are activated by sound.
I can only assume that the people you fight have a much higher latency than you or don't know what is happening (ie. they panic or get confused) if you can hit them for 70% of their health every time before they do anything. I'm also wondering what their teammates are doing when you appear.
Finally, I doubt it's 70% of their health as well. In previous threads, abacuser rants about the threat of being one-shot constantly. When pressured about this statement, it changes to ~50%. When he links a video that supposedly shows how OP Rogues are, we see (and hear) the Rogue has to blow everything (including a daily) to kill him from 65% health.
In short, your story doesn't add up coffola. There's no way to tell if there's a big gear difference between you and the people you fight, there's no way to tell how bad their connections are and these opponents don't read as if they know what they are doing. I'm quite confident that a large part of your success as a Rogue is down to other people not knowing. Why? Because every other person I've questioned about how OP Rogues are ends up hinting at other factors (in your case it would be not listening for cues) contributing to their deaths other than just getting ROFLSTOMPED by some supposed godlike entity.